========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 11:18:56 +0300 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Ville V Lahde Subject: A Timeline for Mystara part two In-Reply-To: <200105220705.f4M759621369@uta.fi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT TIMELINE for Mystara, "Twin Campaigns" part II Before Crowning 1000 The Alphatians arrive. Some remnants from the Fire faction make contact with Nithian worshippers of Rathanos. Scattered remarks on the Nexus of Rathanos are incorporated in their writings. The gnolls that were created in Nithia by Ranivorus/Yagrai migrate to the lands populated by the traladaran. The Golden Age ends. The hutaakan retreat back to their valley, leaving the traladaran to their own devices. As Pflarr too lifts his/her grip on them, Taranis is able to step in again. However, she intentionally keeps her own identity a secret in order to throw Thanatos off track. The heroes Halav, Petra and Zirchev repel the gnoll invasion, but Halav dies. He doesn't actually ascend to heavens, but Taranis supports this myth. Her new priests start worshipping Halav, whose voice answers their Commune rituals. Halav is buried in Karakataos, which is destroyed in a great battle between gnolls and traladara. Petra becomes a leader of her people, but is killed by white dragons in the northeastern mountains. Zirchev the mage moves to the Riverfork area, where he researches polymorphic magic in his tower. The ample lycantropic infestation of those lands is perhaps a result of his studies. (Note: A text describing these events is preserved in the library of the Sulescu clan.) One lone artefact of Taranis remains, buries under the temple of Lavv. The Dorfinian realm is born in the western shores of the continent. The Dorfinians develop psionic talents and a religious culture that emphasises introversion, preservation of knowledge and isolation. Very few traces of the existence of this culture leaks out to the world, as lone explorers chart the lands and gather news. The Dorfinian culture endures at least until some time after 1000 AC. 800 Alfheim is created. The court of Oberon politely asks the permission to live in the great forest. 600 "Thyatian" human tribes migrate to north (Thyatians, Hattians, Kerendans). The future empire begins its long process of struggle, betrayal and conquest. The Alphatian empire is on ascendancy, and their mages begin chasing the remaining Stream mages. They fail however. 500 An alliance of gods destroys Nithia. The triumvirate is destroyed, and the three gods scatter. This is the first time that Thanatos is defeated. The mountains of Rockhome suddenly gain in altidude, when strange earthquakes divert the river Nithus. Alfheimian magics divert rainfall from the Nithus delta. The Ylaruam desert is created. 200 Alphatia conquers Thyatis. 0 The first emperor of Thyatis is crowned. After Crowning ? White-skinned "barbarian" tribes move from north to Heldann, Denagoth, Wendar and the northern lands west of Mengul, south of Hyborea. They bring with the worship of new deities such as Darga. A strong cult of Darga arises in present day Vestland, but is defeated by worshippers of new gods. These new gods are said to come from a place called the Valhalla, beyond this world. Their worship spreads quickly, and it reaches even the area of Darokin. There human tribes unite for a first time. During this time worship of the lion god (see the era of the first Firelord) suddenly emerges in the continent. It is never popular, but isolated cults will remain through the coming centuries. 100 The Ethengarian Makistani tribes are driven to Ylaruam. The tribes of Athuargin are born. Also during this time the influence of the faery races is at its peak. The court of Oberon is revered by elves, druids and forest folk of all kinds. The faedornae help small groups of elves, dwarves and halflings to move to Emerlas, the northern tip of the Canolbarth forest. The faery incluence is especially strong there, but the area is constantly threatened by trolls and orcs. Ilsundal creates a series of artefacts called the Snow pearls and hurls them into the world. The leader of Emerlas, Kalondiel, is contacted by the faedornae who tip him off. He finds the pearls during his quest, but is unable to help Emerlas in time. His family is killed. Kalondiel travels around the forest, looking for release in death and leaving the pearls in secret places. Later, long and arduous restoration begins in Emerlas. (During time a strange event occurs. An object called "the World Cross" is flung back in time, from the far future, to the Sind desert. The World cross is actually a piece of the fabric of this world. In the future at the time when the Cross was broken from that fabric, a process of degradation of the world "begins". The very time and space of the world, chains of cause and effect, are eroded. The degradation isn't however moving forth, but back in time -� towards the era where the World cross is. The world itself in some level of emergent consciousness realises that something is very wrong. Many seemingly unconnected events take place. 1) At the northern edge of the Land of the Black Sand a large lion-shaped castle appears (See: BSOLO: Ghost of the lion castle). Some northern barbarians establish a village called Sardsdell near the castle. Out of respect for their animalistic religion and for fear of the castle the Ethengar never attack them. 2) The Silvery one spits a large lump of living silver in Heldann. 3) The refuge valley of Haven is founded by Thendara. 4) Taranis places a small fraction of her essence in the statue under Lavv. About 900 years later, these events contribute to the restoration of the World cross, "repairing the world". 130 The shadow elves make contact with surface elves. King Cerendyl denies their requests and the elven wars begin. 150 Thyatians establish colonies in Ylaruam. 300 Sea elves colonise Minrothad. 400 Flaems reach the Glantri area, Braej is built. The Fleams learn of Alphatia. In traladaran lands Marilenev is built. The race of golden dragons has some serious trouble. A madness seems to take over many of them, robbing the of their essential "dragonness". The madness keeps on spreading through next decades. (Note: The madness is caused by a creature best described as "a chaos dragon", who attacks ad defeats the oldest golden dragon in the world. The chaos dragon doesn't kill the old one, but instead feeds on its essence and that of other golden dragons. The old golden is called "He Who Watches over us", and he lives in a great plateau north of Sind. The plateau is the centre of power for many gods in this world. In legends it is called the plateau of gods. In Darokin, a legendary human hero Greenhair is born. 450 A strange race of Desert Demons in Sind desert enslave another demonic race. The desert demons have caused trouble many times before, as they can periodically combine their forces and create more powerful versions of themselves. The last time they were defeated by a Sindian hero with "the Salt Sword", and artefact crafted by Protius, who is an enemy of the demons. Now, however, the Salt Sword is lost. About this time the dragon Khordag gathers a large army of humanoids and invades Emerlas. The hero Erystelle defeats Khordag and brings back the legendary sword Scorbane. But only a few years later another strange race of dragon-like humanoid beings from another world invade Mystara via a magical portal. (Note: According to some scholars this event strangely resembles the work of teenage GMs enthusiastic about Krynn books.) The invasion starts from the mountains north of Alfheim, and is targeted towards Corunglain, the Ainsun clan and Emerlas. They are aided by hordes of dragons that have been enslaved by magic rituals. The elven hero Erystelle with his allies repels the invasion with the help of the Snow pearls that they discover. Barimoor, the dracon-like humanoid beings and Desert Demons also try to get the pearls, but they fail. After two botched invasions the dragon-like beings retreat to their mountain lairs to gather forces. During this time the Desert Demons, who lost one of their leaders in the hunt for the Snow pearls, make a bold strike against Fortuna, the god of luck and chance. They enslave the core essence of the god, who has to flee into the world - but divided into 9 blind beggars who roam the world looking for their tenth cousin. This results in the slow disappearance of Luck from the world: trade becomes dangerous, gambling as a profession is lost etc. Accidents plague the lands. The Desert Demons however with their hard-won luck are able to conquer Sind and Hule and drive the cult of Hosadus (a front for Thanatos) underground. The demons either possess key leaders of the realms, or blackmail and intimidate them into submission. During a quest for the legendary hammer Mj�llnir Erystelle and his allies find the Salt Sword and defeat the Desert Demons in Sind and Hule. They also stumble across the World Cross (Note: In fact this is a result of the world trying to repair itself.). In Hule they help restore Fortuna. After this the cult of Hosadus quickly gains power in Hule and consolidates its power. Erystelle and his allies defeat the Chaos Dragon in the Plateau of Gods. The Chaos Dragon flees to the northwest, to the mountains between the Sylvan Realm and the Dorfinians. 450+? "The Time of Withdrawal" With the hammer Mj�llnir Erystelle and his friends are able to defeat the dragon-like humanoid beings and shatter their portal. As their draconic goddess is driven away, only a few of the beings remain in this world. (And as neuters they aren't able to procreate.) After the conflict ends many gods decide that their age in this world is over. The court of Oberon returns to the faery realm, leaving only the whimsical Puck behind to pester everybody. Rafiel's Camber of Spheres is completed and the Shadow elves leave. Only a handful of them remain, either as lone refugees or to guard their underground realm from pillagers. The Valhalla gods also retreat, as they see future ruled by merchants, mages and politicians, not by great heroes. Nationalistic gods begin to take over in the Northern Reaches after this (Forsett is one of these). Erystelle ascends to the faedorn islands, which also leave this world. The barbarians in the Borean valley (north-west of Wendar, west of Mengul) form a Covenant with "He Who Watches over us". The Snow pearls once again are spread around the world. 460? The Dorfinians cease their exploration of the world and close their borders for good. Any visitors are abducted and their memories wiped clean. 500 The colonial wars in Ylaruam. The First Nomad Wars: Sindian nomads are converted to Hosadian faith. They begin a holy war against Darokin. The hero Greenhair, one of Erystelles allies, is instrumental in defeating the nomads. (Note: This is the second time that Thanatos has been defeated in these lands.) After the wars several humanoid tribes take advantage of the weakened state of Darokin and begin and all-out war with humans. Large areas of Darokin are devastated. Greenhair disappears forever, his faith unknown. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 13:14:51 +0300 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Ville V Lahde Subject: A Timeline for Mystara part three In-Reply-To: <200105220705.f4M759621369@uta.fi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT TIMELINE for Mystara, "Twin Campaigns" part II 600 The Khan of Ethengars invades "Glantri" and is driven back. In the Sylvan Realm, Moorkroft drives the elves out. 700 Alphatia and Thyatia wage a few wars. Many elves and humans form colonies in "Glantri". Darokin arises once again. The present elven king sits on the throne. 800 Suleiman Al-Kalim begins his quests in Ylaruam. 802 The Great plague: Dwarves are driven out of "Glantri". ? In Denagoth, Wendar and Heldann, worship of northern gods Idris and Gylgarid (a bull god of northern minotaurs) begins. 830 Ylaruam and Glantri gain independency. Some dwarves migrate to Minrothad. Wendar is colonised by independent Thyatians. A pact is made by wild elves living there. The reign half-elven kings begins. 850 Minrothad is stabilised as a state, and it begins to build its merchant navies. In the north-western borders of Wendar "the Crystal Wars" start between local kobolds, elves, Thyatian settlers and northern barbarians. The conflict is sparked by the actions of a renegade Glantrian wizard living in the cliffs of the Great plateau (the Plateau of Gods). A leader of northern barbarians manages to resolve the conflict with the help of an artefact called the Heartstone. After the wars he settles by the side of the Mengul mountains and starts building the kingdom on Ghyr (Note: see "Quest for the Heartstone"). ? The cult of Forsett, a nationalistic patron of Vestland, emerges as he contacts various monks at the Stones of the Sky. Ostlandian kings adopt the Thyatian pantheon, but remain quite non-religious. Barbarian tribes from the northern wildlands are led by the legendary hero Henadin into the Danegothian plateau. Supported by their age-old allies the golden dragons they battle local worshippers of Idris, Queen of the Black Dragons. Henadin dies, but the Idrians are beaten for a while. After this the tribe of Henadin wanes and moves back to their ancestral lands, beyond Mengul mountains. 900 Thyatis invades the lands of the Traladara. 927 Darokin is stabilised as the merchant and diplomatic nation we know now. ? In Denagoth the Shadowlord is defeated for the first time. 970 Stephan Karameikos separates the Traladaran lands from Thyatis and founds Karameikos. In Oceansend, built only recently, the Master thief Danakhriss begins forming his thief guild. In Glantri the mansion of the D'Amberville suddenly disappears, taking the whole family with it. 998 On the other side of the world, in "the Sea Kingdoms", a relatively unknown realm of Larta is ruled by priests of three knightly gods Artus, Aison & Aramis. The power of the theocracy is broken, when suddenly the ancient enemy of the triumvirate is released from his imprisonment. This is Aphastes, the god of underground rivers. The adventurers who released Aphastes by accident are abducted by the god Thendara to the other side of the world, into the valley of Haven. The adventurers save the valley from a strange blight. (Note: The abduction by Thendara was so incredible that it could have been designed by an inexperienced teenage GM who was bored with his old campaign concept and wished to use the cool Karameikos stuff available.) 999 In Karameikos an undead cult near Treshold is destroyed. A priest of the Nithian undead god used undead in logging operations. Thyatians in Karameikos prepare for the millenium celebrations. Later on in the Radlebb woods a group of adventurers saves a druidic monastery from the grips of strange witch sisters. 1000 This year is of course marked by the millenium celebrations. During lavish celebrations the Veiled Society attacks the family of Vorloi. A group of adventurers reveals the plans of the society and also its links to the Radu clan. Several members of the Radu clan are decapitated, but two of its leaders manage to escape. Cartha Radu joins the forces of a wizard called Skarda. Anton later becomes a master in the Iron Ring. Aphastes has now conquered the whole theocracy of Larta and launches an invasion against Hyperborea. He forges and alliance with Moorkroft and a strange new race of "the Rainbow-scaled Ones". (Note: This race has been created from the still suffering Chaos Dragon, who lies in his/her lair. The blade of the sword Scorbane left in a wound is still eating at the flesh of this foul beast. From its blood emerged a new reptilian race that forms hierarchic communities stratified by colours of the rainbow.) 1001 Agents of the Black Eagle barony attempt to assassinate a Specularum merchant and politician in as small hamlet Rhetius on Duke's Road. The attempt is foiled by a group of adventurers and a werewolf, who has plagued the hamlet for years. Later during the late spring and summer the Iron Ring launches an offensive against settlers in Dymrak forest. Various homesteads are torched, when agents of the organisation are searching for a Hutaakan tapestry. A group of adventurers decimates most of the goblin tribes in Dymrak and drives the Iron ring master Golthar from the ruined city of Xitaqa. Golthar is later killed in Treshold. The same group of adventurers later discovers the Lost valley of Hutaakans. A cleric of the church of Traladara, Alexander Penhaligon, discovers the true history of his people. A conflict in the valley ends in the slaughter of the remaining Traldar race. In Specularum patriarch Sergyev dies. This leads to a split in the Cult of Halav. 1001-1002 During the autumn, winter and spring various cells of the Iron Ring are destroyed all over Karameikos. The cleric Alexander Penhaligon discovers the tomb of Halav in Krakataos and with his friends kills the green dragon living there. Taranis contacts him, making him in effect the first true cleric of the Traladaran people for years. The forces of the Iron Ring and Black Eagle attempt to conquer Sulescu in the early spring, but the attack is repelled. In Black Eagle barony Anton Radu is killed, and a cult of the Nithian undead god is destroyed in Blight swamp. Assassins kill one High master of Iron ring and deliver enough info for Sascia of Luln that she can launch a counterattack at the criminal organisation. This operation lasts nearly a year and greatly weakens the Iron ring. 1002-1003 The lost mansion of the D'Amberville family reappears near Selenica. A group of adventurers releases Etienne from imprisonment. The D'Ambervilles return to Glantri and begin a rapid ascent to power. (Note: The various monsters that were summoned with spells to the mansion came mainly from Thanegioth Archipelago: aranea, rakastae, Sollux etc.) From the portal used by the D'Ambervilles a strange monotheistic cult spreads to parts of Mystara. It is a salvation religion that has great appeal especially to Thyatian slaves. The Kin faction gains upper hand in Ylaruam. A new great Khan unites the Ethengars. 1004 The wizard Skarda attacks the summer palace of Duke Stephan in Karameikos. The attempted regicide is foiled by a slave rebellion in Skarda's mirror world, led by a group of adventurers. Aphastes manages to recruit numerous dragons to serve in his burgeoning armies. They attack the northern coasts of the continent, conquering the Borean delta. Aphastes also allies with Gylgarid, whose minotaur followers join Aphastes's armies. But now the invasion has to stop for a while, as supply lines have to be strengthened. The centre of Aphastes's power moves away from the Sea Kingdoms. As a god of the underground rivers he begins spreading his influence by reaching out to the continental groundwater rivers. The king Maramet of Vestland disappears in a foray against Heldannan barbarians. He has no heir, and various attempts to find him or the crown Sorana fail. The decline of the kingdom begins, as the Ruthinian monks of the Forsett aren't able to hold the country together. The Great Khan of Ethengar eyes the country hungrily, hoping to gain a coastal border. 1005 Strange attacks against Minrothadian and Thyatian shipping lines continue. A group of adventurers investigate a lone island in the Sea of Dread and destroy a community of Kara-Kara led by a wizard/devil swine. Still, attacks on shipping lines don't cease, but they spread to Ochalean waters as well. Also naval supply lines for the Hinterland campaign are disrupted. It is said that also Alphatian ships have been attacked. The number of zzonga incidents is on the rise. 1005-1006 Source of the attacks against shipping lines is Daricus, a former resident of the Isle of Dawn. With a group of fire elementalists and Rathanos worshippers he has created his own empire that spans nearly all of the Thanegioth Archipelago. He has become the new Firelord. He has formed alliances with the red dragons of the central archipelago, a witch living in the westernmost island and the efreeti. During this time his forces have attacked the rakastae on the Isle of Dread and the Children of the Swan. His plan is of course to become the Nexus of Rathanos. But Thyatian agents manage to find the archipelago. They save the elves and kill the witch Darga. Then they contact the rakastae and drive the enemy away from the Isle of Dread. Karmeikan warrior Ivan Ivanovich finds the lost temple of Rak'Asta and becomes a new incarnation of the ancient king. With the help of the sea dragons he and his friends manage to kill the leader of the red dragons. Ivan finds the lost helmet and sword of Rak'Asta. In the main island they disrupt the Nexus ritual and drive Daricus to the elemental plane. Later Thyatis invades the archipelago and establishes a colony on the main island. With a good supply line the Hinterland campaign intensifies. Aphastes begins a full-scale invasion to the southern Borean lands. Barbarian pendragon opposes him, but to no avail. Only one southern barbarian kingdom is spared� for now. The construction of supply depots and farming areas along the Borean river begins. Several refugee groups arrive in Wendar. 1007 Wendar has its darkest hour. The fabled Elvenstone has been stolen, famine and disease cripple the countryside and the Shadowlord is rumoured to have risen again. The whole of Denagoth is conquered by the Shadowlord, and all elven communities there are destroyed. In the eve of the invasion that would surely decimate Wendar a group of adventurers kill the Shadowlord. They uncover evidence that Aphastes has made a pact with the followers of Idris: he needs a route to attack Wendar from the north, and has given some help to Landryn Teriak to achieve that. Idris has sent some black dragons to join the armies of Aphastes. In Ghyr the master thief Danakhriss steals the legendary Heartstone. In the autumn the former Shadowlord Landryn Teriak arises as the horrible Wraith lord. He is joined by members of the cult of Idris. The adventurers who killed him before find the Blackstick and destroy him for good. They find out that the Blackstick was crafted by the Nithian undead god. Yuri Turambar, a Traladaran man raised by the Callarii elves, is granted a border dominion in western Wendar for his efforts in the Shadowlord war. Diplomats from Ghyr contact him and ask help from the legendary hero and his friends. The heroes travel to Ghys and recover the Heartstone, thus ensuring the continuation of the kingdom. Danakhriss escapes and vows revenge on Turambar, also a thief. 1008 Alexander Penhaligon, Ivan Ivanovich, Yuri Turambar and their two friends from the group of adventurers abducted from Larta (a mage and a silver dwarf) travel to Vestland. They find the crown Sorana, kill the duke of Estine and liberate the regal heir Tenitar from the tower of Ala the Seawitch. Rightful rule is re-established in Vestland. Ivan Ivanovich becomes the duke of Estine. The Great Khan of the Ethengar is dethroned (desaddled?) as his promises about Vestland become void. The Khanates break up again, but the war of succession isn't so bloody. The most promising candidates for next Khan is either Chanai of the Murkit Clan or the clan of Kiyats (actually Jaku the Render). Agents of Aphastes contact Jaku. Relations between Thyatia and Alhatia begin to deteriorate one more. There are some conflicts in the isle of Dawn. Ostlandian pirates disrupt shipping near Norwold badly. 1009 The above mentioned group of heroes rescues the Ierendian princess from the underwater city of Colhador. This ends a long period of difficulties for the Minrothadian traders, as the attacks by the war rafts cease. (To be continued in the detailed almanacs for years 1009 - 1011 AC) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 09:40:51 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Chick Tract MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" The main thing I have always said about D&D when confronted about it's evil is this... The most popular board game in modern history is Monopoly. The object of the game is accumulate the most money and bankrupt all your friends (my in-laws and wife have vowed to never play the game with me again because of it brings out the worst in me and my father in-law). In order to succeed in D&D and hence 'win the game' is to survive, and with that survival instinct you have to work together to achieve a common goal (like not letting the DM kill us all with 30 ogres). D&D has been used many times in churches and schools to show people how to have fun and to work together as a team. This type of play not only helps the creative side of a person, but also shows us the fundamental principle of how to get along with each other. Another point to consider, how well do you know your friends from other games as to compared to how well you know your D&D buddies? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 16:06:12 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: A Timeline for Mystara part two In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I didnt get, or accidentally deleted, part 1. Could you please send it to me? Thanks! Haavard ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 10:52:22 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: I couldn't believe it but it's true Hi all, Interesting as the discussion is, I'd just like to ask people to either take their discussions about netiquette and Chick Tracts (check out the annotated version on unclebear.com) off-list, or get back to the business of discussing Mystara. For the most part people were very civil about it (which makes my job as List Ogre a bit easier - thanks!), but I'd like to nip any possibility of flame wars in the bud. Thanks, Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 10:55:28 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Geoff Gander Subject: [ADMIN] Code of Conduct Related to the issues swirling around recently, this seems to be an opportune time to bring our list's code of conduct to everyone's attention. Just go to my site (in my sig file) and scroll to the bottom - it's there. If you're interested, just skim through it, and you'll know what exactly is tolerated and what isn't. Thanks, Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 19:21:02 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: I couldn't believe it but it's true MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I might not have been entirely clear, as my main purpose was to nip the Christian bashing in the bud and to forestall those who might not realize how many of their friends out there are indeed Christian. It is true that myths the world over supply inspiration to fantasy. But the fantasy genre, as it appears in novels and rpgs, has a direct link to Christian sources. Remove the Grecian influence, and you at least still have D&D, just without all the Greek gods and epic heroes...but remove the monks toiling away during the Middle Ages, and all the Middle Lit from Chaucer to the anonymous writer of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, and you have something a little more central ripped from the heart of the genre. I don't think anyone denies the effect of Tolkien on rpgs...though we might sometimes be a little frustrated with just how strong that effect is. On the other hand, I'm not belittling the effect of other mythic influences on the genre. Yes, you rip all Norse mythology from fantasy and you have something very different...though I would argue at the core its still identifiable to what we have. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mischa Gelman" To: Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] I couldn't believe it but it's true > On Mon, 21 May 2001, Jeff Daly wrote: > > > are anti D&D. Besides, without the Christian Church there would be no > > fantasy genre at all. > > While I agree with most of your points, this is going overboard. Much of > modern fantasy draws its roots from Greco-Roman, Egyptian and Norse > mythology; look at many of the Mystaran nations for evidence of > this. Tolkien and Lewis really led to the whole sweeping-melodramatic-epic > fantasy that is so common, but men and women of many religions helped > create the genre we all love. > > - Mischa > > Nothing in modern attitudes is believed more to signify exceptional > intelligence than association with large pools of money. Only immediate > experience with those so situated denies the myth. - John Kenneth > Galbraith > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 23:20:45 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Lupin Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Are there any writings someone has done about the Lupin race? Angelo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 16:38:04 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: A Timeline for Mystara part two On Tue, 22 May 2001 16:06:12 +0200, =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= wrote: >I didnt get, or accidentally deleted, part 1. Could >you please send it to me? > Actually, you don't need him to. This list has archives where it can be found (look under Week 3 of May). Any of our mails are stored there and can be read at any time. - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 16:43:59 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: I couldn't believe it but it's true On Tue, 22 May 2001 10:52:22 -0400, Geoff Gander wrote: >Hi all, > >Interesting as the discussion is, I'd just like to ask people to either >take their discussions about netiquette and Chick Tracts (check out the >annotated version on unclebear.com) off-list, or get back to the business >of discussing Mystara. For the most part people were very civil about it >(which makes my job as List Ogre a bit easier - thanks!), but I'd like to >nip any possibility of flame wars in the bud. > I don't blame you - when religion is involved, the danger of flame wars is very high indeed, and it takes very little to start one! I wonder, though, is a discussion about Chick tracts really not appropriate on this list? There was a similar discussion on DND-L about this about a year ago (and the moderators are much harsher there!), and it was never stopped. It just sort of died out eventually, but it lasted about a month and a lot of interesting points were made and relevant facts and information brought to my attention, so I really did think it was worthwhile. - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 17:11:32 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Lupin Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In my campaign I have incorporated the Wolfen, which are a cool race and = the size of Minotaurs! JK Wolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 17:39:56 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Lupin In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:11 PM 5/22/01 -0700, you wrote: >In my campaign I have incorporated the Wolfen, which are a cool race and the size of Minotaurs! Interesting. They sound very similar to the idea I had for the Wulven, which are a Lupin related race introduced in the Hutaaka Gazetteer. Do you have more info on your Wolfen? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 18:20:39 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Lupin Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have used the ones from the Palladium books campaign Wilderness = Adventures and even though only one has been seen in my campaign I'm not = sure where I want to place their Empire of the Twelve tribes. Of course, = using the Palladium books requires a lot of converting but so far it has = been no problem, as I said it was only an appearance but I will probably = get more info about them then cross it over with Minotaur info and the = Lupin from the Red Steel books. Thankfully none of my players have decided = to go look for them! regards, JK Wolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 20:37:32 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Lupin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Angelo Bertolli" > Are there any writings someone has done about the Lupin race? The main one that I can think of is Bruce Heard's article in Dragon magazine -- issue 237, IIRC, which is available in the CD-ROM archive. The Vaults of Pandius site probably has other material as well -- in fact, it seems to have every fan-produced writing about Mystara ever written. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 20:41:12 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: A Timeline for Mystara part three MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Ville V Lahde" > 600 The Khan of Ethengars invades "Glantri" and is driven back. In the > Sylvan Realm, Moorkroft drives the elves out. FYI -- in the Dragonlord trilogy, the region that would later become Glantri was called the "Highlands". Even though your timeline moves things around a bit, that name would still seem to fit the region. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 19:51:22 -0300 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Steven Carter Subject: Re: Lupin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Interestingly enough I've been trying to incorporate Lupins and Hutaakans (and D&D style elves and Shadow Elves and many others) into my other-rpg campaign setting. Since my Re-Phra-Ti (translation "Children of Ra") Empire is based on a Egypt+Athens+Rome+Babylon I thought it odd humans should be at odds with dog people. I thought using the Hutaakans as allies (through an Egyptian god's patronage) would be ideal. The Lupin tribes are from the wilderness areas inside the Empire and are treated like Native Americans... only with respect for ancient treaties and territory and no reservations. The Hutaakans usually live in cities and small towns. Their civilization lost but content to live with their human family since the humans regard them with respect, comaradery and value Hutaakan wisdom. Wolfen, Coyle or Kankorran could be found anywhere. Wolfen are highly civilized while Kankorran are very primitive. Coyle are troublemakers and would make excellent accomplices for gnolls which is the part gnolls play to coyles in my setting. I've always pressumed wolfen would be found in heavy forest in temperate to sub-arctic regions but not generally in tropical or sub-tropical. Joe Kelly wrote: > > I have used the ones from the Palladium books campaign Wilderness Adventures and even though only one has been seen in my campaign I'm not sure where I want to place their Empire of the Twelve tribes. Of course, using the Palladium books requires a lot of converting but so far it has been no problem, as I said it was only an appearance but I will probably get more info about them then cross it over with Minotaur info and the Lupin from the Red Steel books. Thankfully none of my players have decided to go look for them! > > regards, > JK Wolf > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 05:20:12 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: I couldn't believe it but it's true Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed It IS inappropriate for the most part because this is a _Mystara_ mailing list, not a general D&D mailing list. And it's kind of a D&D + Satanism topc. All topics here are D&D + Mystara. >I wonder, though, is a discussion about Chick tracts really not appropriate >on this list? There was a similar discussion on DND-L about this about a >year ago (and the moderators are much harsher there!), and it was never >stopped. It just sort of died out eventually, but it lasted about a month >and a lot of interesting points were made and relevant facts and >information brought to my attention, so I really did think it was >worthwhile. > > > - The Stalker > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 22:33:40 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "Jenni A.M. Merrifield" Organization: strawberryJAMM Designs Subject: Status of Discussing "Chick Tracts" on MML (was Re: I couldn't believe it but it's true) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Actually, that is incorrect. If you read the official guidelines for this list, although it's /primary/ purpose is for the discussion of Mystara in any and all incarnation, it has a /secondary/ purpose of being for a discussion of "OD&D" -- original D&D (Basic, Expert, etc. and Rules Cyclopedia) -- though not for AD&D "in general" (AD&D is "okay" when it relates specifically to Mystara). The discussion of the Chick Track "Dark Dungeons" isn't exactly restricted to any version or edition of D&D -- be it Original, Advanced, or 3rd Edition -- so it is at least /conceivable/ that, as a topic of interest to anyone who plays "OD&D", that it could be considered to be somewhat "on topic". Nonetheless, the Admin has said that he doesn't want the topic discussed any more for fear of flame wars, etc. And that is all we list members should need to just "drop the subject". Jenni A. M. Merrifield -=> strawberryJAMM <=- PS: Before anyone decides I myself am guilty of "continuing the subject", please note that I have not actually commented in any way on the actual tract, either in this note or at any previous time in the thread. =JAMM On 23 May 2001, at 5:20, Angelo Bertolli wrote: > It IS inappropriate for the most part because this is a _Mystara_ mailing > list, not a general D&D mailing list. And it's kind of a D&D + Satanism > topc. All topics here are D&D + Mystara. > > > >I wonder, though, is a discussion about Chick tracts really not appropriate > >on this list? There was a similar discussion on DND-L about this about a > >year ago (and the moderators are much harsher there!), and it was never > >stopped. It just sort of died out eventually, but it lasted about a month > >and a lot of interesting points were made and relevant facts and > >information brought to my attention, so I really did think it was > >worthwhile. > > > > > > - The Stalker > > > >******************************************************************** > >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield -=> strawberryJAMM <=- Benevolent Despot of the Mystara 3E Project M3E Project: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mystara3E ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 22:59:49 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Greg Weatherup Subject: Alfheim Clans Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aloha, well perhaps my last question was too hard, let's try an easier one... On the clans of the Alfheim (Long Runner, Red Arrow, Feadil, etc.) are they spread uniformily throught the forest orare certain clans in certain parts? I ask because I want to include the clan leaders in my Birthright game but need to know who's where. Thanks! Greg Weatherup Gecko GWxup@excite.com Gecko_G@email.com http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/spock/67/index.html http://members.fortunecity.com/Gecko_G/ _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 23:53:10 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "David S. Leland" Subject: Mystara stuff on list for ESD continuation! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From Eric Noah's 3e News website (http://www.rpgplanet.com/dnd3e): >May 22, 2001 > >ESD Program to Resume Under Butler: Posted to WIZINFO-L by WotC's Julia Martin was this encouraging note regarding the ESD program: > >Wizards of the Coast has recently signed a deal with Jim Butler to have him continue the ESD program that he started while he was here. You should start see additional ESD materials available in June. A schedule will soon be released that covers the specifics of when you should see the products at the online store, but presented below is a list of products you should see over the coming year. [followed by this list of over 600 items ranging from the 1E PHB, MM and DMG to Planescape, Ravenloft, 1st edition modules, and lots more.] Is this list complete? No, there are still products that are not on the schedule that need to be scanned. We'll have to get to those next year. In addition, there might be changes to this schedule if anything glaring has been missed. If you have questions about the ESD program, please contact Jim Butler. Schedules and other information will be available at the Wizards of the Coast and Bastion Press websites. > >For those who don't know, ESDs (Electronic Software Downloads) are a fancy way of saying "Old D&D stuff scanned and in PDF format for sale at store.wizards.com." (thanks to Pat and Mike for the scoop) The list of 600 includes virtually all OD&D and Mystara stuff, and can be viewed at http://www.rpgplanet.com/dnd3e/downloads/esd501.txt Woo hoo! Magus Coeruleus ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:37:49 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Alfheim Clans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greg Weatherup wrote: > On the clans of the Alfheim (Long Runner, Red Arrow, Feadil, etc.) are = they > spread uniformily throught the forest orare certain clans in certain = parts? Each clan has a Clan Center, a town that is built around that clan's = Tree of Life. I think it's safe to assume that the majority of a = particular clan lives at or near the Clan Center. > I ask because I want to include the clan leaders in my Birthright game = but > need to know who's where. If you've got a map, the towns asscociated with each clan are: Feador - Feadiel Pinitel - Long Runner Mealidor - Mealidil Desnae - Chossum Ainsun - Grunalf Elleromyr - Erendyl Shieldtree - Red Arrow Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 11:43:25 +0300 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Ville V Lahde Subject: Re: A Timeline for Mystara part three MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Tue, 22 May 2001, David Knott wrote: > > > 600 The Khan of Ethengars invades "Glantri" and is driven back. In the > > Sylvan Realm, Moorkroft drives the elves out. > > FYI -- in the Dragonlord trilogy, the region that would later become > Glantri was called the "Highlands". Even though your timeline moves > things around a bit, that name would still seem to fit the region. > I wrote "Glantri" because I haven't decides yet on a name. Braej is already there, so the Flaems should have their own name for the region. At that time they are one of the most interesting cultures in the region. Well, the situation will be remedied when Erystelle & co. travel through the Flaem lands from the Plateau of Gods. (Yes, I wrote some events of the Erystelle campaign that haven't yet been played out. If the heroes fail to bring Mj�llnir to the battle against the dragon-like beings or die trying, I'll have to do some rewriting. Note: The invasion will still be repelled and the portal closed, but it'll have to be done by someone else. This'll mean that more of the dragon-like beings will be left in the world. Even now there are some (but very very few), for example Yuri Turambar's bodyguard Shiva. OK, Ok, ok.. I was a young GM in 1988 and was enthusiastic about Krynn books. Both in my Mystara-campaign and a Forgotten Realms campaign my friend is doing there were draonian incursions through magic portals. At least I was able to write away the draconians to 500 years in the past and replace "present" day draconians with the Rainbow-Scaled Ones, before the players could notice. The Nithian undead god is Chemos from Krynn, and yes, he arrived from the time of the Withdrawal. Yes, it pains me to remember these things. Another point of shame: As you may have noticed, I neglected to mention the names of the Lartan Stream mage and the Silvery swarf in the PC group. There's a good reason. Shame. These characters were created in 1988, with the names Flint Fireforge (ouch...) and Radagast Emry (OUCH!). In the future I'll refer to them by names Flint and Rada, their pet names in the group. Well, we were all young once. Yours sincerely, Ville L�hde ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 11:44:54 +0300 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Ville V Lahde Subject: Almanac 1009 In-Reply-To: <200105230705.f4N75A604096@uta.fi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Almanac of events in 1009for "the Twin Campaigns" Ville L�hde 1009 Flaurmont In the free city of Freiburg agents of Aphastes attempt to take over the city. Their attempt is foiled by Yuri Turambar, who joins forces with some local independent thieves. The guild in the city is led by master thief Danakhriss from Oceansend, where he moved his HQ after the loss of his base in Ghyr. A group of silver dwarves who had fled the dungeons of Aphastes reach the shores of Vestland. They had captures a ship in Hyperborea, and with the help of a dwarf-cleric of the Silvery One they managed miraculously to navigate the arctic waters. Something seemed to draw them to Vestland. Agents of Aphastes follow them and try to kill them and canonise Aphastes as a "good" god in Vestland. Both attempts fail, and the silver dwarves meet their lost relative. In Karameikos relations between the two people are strained. The two churches try to keep things calm as elements from the Order of Griffon clash with Traladaran militants. Boris Torenescu tries to kill Alexander and Dmitri Torenescu but fails, and is killed in a street battle. Oderbry is killed mysteriously in his own room, when his holy symbol burns a hole in his chest. Yarthmont News of intensified frost giant and orc attacks against Castellan keep reach Specularum. Troops are sent to assist. They include also patriarch Alexander Penhaligon and Aleena Sherlane. Agents of the Iron Ring, now ruled by the Lich Hazar, sabotage barracks and munition depots in Kelven. (Also with a ritual they manage to possess the baron. This starts the implementation of the long plan of Hazar. In his lair in the Shires he has summoned an Avatar of his god into this world and "broken" it into five separate spirits. With these spirits five key individuals are supposed to be possessed. Thus Karameikos would fall under the power of the undead god.) In Castellan Alexander Penhaligon finds out that the giants and the Pfark orcs are being led by some single force. He finds the culprit, an old white dragon (ally of Hazar) and kills it. However, during this time Aleena is possessed by the undead spirit. The Castellan keep is destroyed, but the armies of the frost giants and the Pfark orcs are also decimated. Alexander finds the lost Mace of Petra, a powerful magic item. Returning to Specularum Alexander Penhaligon notices that many of his friends have been outlawed for seditious acts. He is contacted by a militant sect "The Fivebane" who are threatened both by agents of Iron Ring and militants from the Order of the Griffon. Aided by Valdo Tisza and local thieves he manages to destroy the Iron Ring cell, but Admiral Hyraksos is possessed by the undead spirit. Alexander, Tisza and the Fivebane flee to Marilenev. Klarmont Alexander Penhaligon destroys a strange cult of dopplegangers in Sulescu and saves the town from their power. But unknown to him, lord Sulescu is possessed by the undead spirit. Later in Korizegy keep he destroys the vampire family, who was cursed by Hazar. There he finds the armour of Halav. In Riverfork area Alexander defeats a werewolf tribe infesting the ruins of Zirchev's tower, and finds the helmet of Zirchev. Meanwhile, agents of Hazar manage to have the leader of Radlebb elves possessed by the undead spirit. Alexander Penhaligon travels to the lair of Hazar with some allies from Fivebane, a halfling Striker leader and the Retameron couple from Verge. They manage to destroy the lich, but to their horror find out about the five possessed people, whose souls are stored in magic crystals. Near Luln, a combined force of Iron Ring, Black Eagle elite mercenaries and Hazar's undead attack Luln. Due to Alexander Panhaligons previous successes it is met by some emergency forces from Selenica, Kelven, Castellan keep, Radlebb wood elves, Luln and Sulescu. However, leaders of all these forces (except Sascia) have been possessed, promising swift victory for Hazar. In the last minute Alexander Penhaligon arrives, returns the souls of the possessed to their bodies and helps the Karameikan forces win the battle. The Nithian undead god has one card in store, however. The five banished spirit combine into a towering figure, a true Avatar. Hundreds of bodies on the battlefield explode as their bones form the body of the Avatar. With his artefacts Alexander Penhaligon manages to destroy it, but many important people have died, not to mention a couple of thousand soldiers, elven and human alike. The last silver dwarves not enslaved or killed by the forces of Aphastes defeat a troll tribe that worships the fire god Rathanos (!) and find a large lump of living silver under the Red Fangs in Heldann. Their ally, a silver dragon/Aurakia cultist Ariannaid takes with her a strange fetal entity from the silver. In Ethengar Khanate Ivan Ivanovich kills the feared Mad Hakomon in the Land of Black Sand. Felmont In Karameikos Duke Stephan and the Black Eagle make a peace treaty. In a show of good will baron Hendricks hands out the last remaining Iron ring masters and frees their slaves. Sascia is granted a new dominion in Rugalov. Alexander Penhaligon is nominated "the Son of Halav" and Protector of the realm, and granted a dominion in Krakataos. A group of adventurers defeat the wizard Eztar in Ethengar, in the Lion castle. Eztar, a former resident of Sardsdell, was the true heir of Sargon. The Lion Castle, an artefact of the Lion God, is at last freed from the vile influence of Sargon. The Caste walks majestically into the Spirit World. In Heldann, the silver dwarves defeat a barbaric tribe that worships Gylgarid the bull god. Fyrmont Duke of Western Wendar, Yuri Turambar, retrieves the sword of Henadin from Drax Tallen and battles a new incursion of the followers of Idris. It is celar that without a present force the land can't be protected. Sage Bensarian of Kevar ponders this. In Heldann the silver dwarves find out that a renegade lord of western Heldann has forged an alliance with minotaurs of Gylgarid and plans to start a rebellion. The dwarves breach the citadel of the minotaurs, find a magical passage inside the Mengul mountains that had been used to transport minotaur troops from the north. With the help of a strange tribe of Gaia-worshipping metal-hating dwarves he destroys the passage. In Ethengar Ivan Ivanovich destroys Jaku the Render. The horde of Batu Khan invades the Kiyat lands and annexes them. Batu allies with Hooplak Hobgoblins and gnolls from the hills of Vestland. Ambyrmont In Karameikos a military operation wipes out the Pfark orcs. The Castellan keep area is made a dwarf dominion for dwarves of Highforge, who gladly leave the tinkering gnomes. In the northern wildlands north-west of Wendar Yuri Turambar finds the remnants of Henadin's people and returns Henandin's sword and amulet to them. He also destroys a beholder cult led by the infamous beholder Azaziel. In Vestland, Rhoona, Ivan Ivanovich destroys a temple of Cretia that tried to cause a border war with Soderfjord. Sviftmont In western Heldann a battle ensues between rebel and loyalist forces. The rebels are supported by the remaining minotarus. The battle is very bloody, and both forces are nearly destroyed. After that the Uighurs attack western Heldann and ransack the countryside, but the Sliktor orcs take advantage of this and raid most of their cattle and kill many women and children left behind. Hulagu Khan, already driven mad by the machinations of late Jaku, commits suicide and the horde retreats. In Karameikos Alexander Torenescu dies and young (and thick) Dmitri takes over the leadership of the clan. The treasonous activities of Valdo Tisza and lady Magda Marilenev are revealed, and both are hanged. Dmitri Torenescu is granted a new dominion south of the Radlebb woods, where substantial gold deposits have been discovered. Eirmont In Karameikos excavations under the city of Kelven uncover the ruins of Lavv. Excavators awake hordes of undead Traladara and gnolls. They start to re-enact the ancient battle. The city is saved in last minute by Alexander Panhaligon, who discovers the lost statue of Taranis and breaks the curse. Penhaligon disappears. Yuri Turambar leads a group of Alfheimian colonisers and the people of Hendain to Denagoth, to reclaim their ancestral lands. The winter is approaching, and the trek is long and arduous. (Note: Some scholars argue that at this time a work-laden GM forgot the concepts of "climate" and "season".) Kaldmont The people of Henadin retake Drax Tallen from the followers of Idris. Idris abandons her plans to conquer Denagoth and open up an invasion route for Aphastes. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 11:45:56 +0300 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Ville V Lahde Subject: Almanac 1010 In-Reply-To: <200105230705.f4N75A604096@uta.fi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Almanac of events in 1010 for "the Twin Campaigns" Ville L�hde 1010 (During this year the cult of Hosadus starts preaching for holy war against the infidels once again. Armies begin to gather in Hule and Sind, joined by numerous humanoid tribes. Preparations are made for the construction of a military town in the eastern edge of the Sind desert. Agents of the Master of Desert Nomads begin their long work of infiltration. Also, agents of Aphastes roam the lands. They contact both the Kiyats and the Bortaks in Ethengar, promising help in the future. They strike a deal with Prince Morphail - The Prince will offer the forces of Aphastes an invasion route through the Wendarian ranges in the future, if Aphastes helps him to become the ruler of the land. Other plots by Aphastes will be shown below, some of them were foiled already in 1009.) Nuwmont Yuri Turambar begins a strange quest given to him by the church of Asterius. (Note: One aspect of Asterius, the protector of thieves, has grown weary of the battle between Turambar and Danakhriss. He wants to issue resolved. Now.) Vatermont Yuri Turambar destroys thieve's guild in Freiburg, a branch of Danakhriss's operation. A peace negotiation between the two master thieves reaches a peace treaty. Turambar's guild gets Freiburg, Heldann and Wendar. Danakhriss retains his businesses in Oceansend, the rest of the Norwold, the Isle of Dawn (and some branches in Darokin). Thaumont A slave rebellion in the Thyatian colonies in Hinterlands and an insurrection by the subjugated barbarians drives Thyatians out. Thyatian intelligence forces learn of an outsider mage who helped the Hinterlanders. Yuri Turambar frees an imprisoned pirate lord, a member of the council of Freiburg, from an Alphatian island prison. He dies doing this, but an aspect of Asterius resurrects him and charges him with a strange divine power seemingly of no use. Flaurmont A plaque breaks out in Beitung, Ochalea. It is rumoured that the plague was created by strange monsters from beyond this world. An expedition of the silver dwarves leaves for Rockhome to examine legends about the fabled treasures of the lost Shadowelves. Yarthmont The silver dwarves search the ruins of Jhyrrad in Rockhome and discover the tunnel to the Broken lands. The raiding parties of the Vestlandian duke Ivan Ivanovich ransack Ostlandian colonies on the Isle of Dread, and they are contacted by Ostmann agents in Helskir. The free city of Helskir awaits new invasions either by Thyatia or Alphatia (or both, which could spark a new war). Klarmont Agents of Alphatia and possibly some third party disrupt Thyatian operations in the main island of the Thanegioth archipelago. The silver dwarves reach the Broken lands and battle with legions of Kol. They find the underground passage to the former realm of the Shadow elves. In Ostland agents of the Ostmann clan try to assassinate king Hord One-Eye. Ala the Seawitch supports them (even though they don't know it). The assassination is prevented by duke Ivan Ivanovich. Troops leave for Kelso in a mission for revenge. Felmont A Thyatian citadel is destroyed in the main island of the Thanegioth archipelago. Ostlandian forces attack Kelso and meet to their surprise highly trained forces that use Darokinian pike techniques and long bows. The army of the king is near defeat, when Ivan Ivanovich assassinates the Osmann lords. In the former realm of the Shadow elves the silver dwarves battle a huge tribe of shroud spiders and aranea. They also destroy an expedition of the armies of Aphastes, who planned to use the Shadowelf lands as a secret invasion route to the southern lands and as a supply base. Fyrmont Thyatian colonisers are driven away from the Isle of Dread. The silver dwarves find the ancient halls of the Shadowelves and kill the last guardian. Leader of the dwarf expedition enters a lost shrine of the Silvery one and disappears. In Ostland, Ivan Ivanovich finds the tower of Narvedul with the help of sea elves and kills Ala the Seawitch. The magical Throne of transformation, stolen from undersea realms, is returned to the elves. Ambyrmont The Children of the Swan drive Thyatian forces from their island. Sviftmont In a great sea battle near the Isle of dawn a Thyatian fleet is attacked by two unknown powerful wizards, the green dragon Abode and two sea dragons. Numerous ships are sunk and hundreds of young legionaries drown. Thyatian intelligence is even more interested about the identity of the wizard, who clearly was responsible for the defeat in Hinterland too. Nothing of substance is revealed, but suspicions turn to Alphatia. One of the few present day Stream Mages (a native of Larta) discovers the new global magical Axis in the Sea of Dread, at the Triangular Islands. Two remaining groups of stream mages (one mainly human, one hobgoblin) man the global poles of the axis, and start the long process of relearning the use of Stream magic. Kaldmont Alphatian agents in Thanegioth archipelago incite a slave revolt and drive Thyatians out of the islands. After the loss of much of its colonial fleet in this area and a colonial legion in Hinterlands Thyatia will be unable to retake the islands at least for a few years. Relations of power seem to tip much on the side of Alphatia, but news arrive of a winter rebellion in Quodhar and some serious trouble in Norwold. Ethengarian travelers say that the next year will probably see Chanai of the Murkit attempting to become the next Great Khan. As the Kiyats are out of the picture and the Uighurs weakened, this may well work out. Nobody believes that Batu of the Bortaks has the guts to oppose Chanai. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 11:47:10 +0300 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Ville V Lahde Subject: Almanac 1011 In-Reply-To: <200105230705.f4N75A604096@uta.fi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Almanac of events in 1011 for "the Twin Campaigns" Ville L�hde 1011 General notes: - During the first months of this year the Destart Nomads attack and seize the outposts of Ierendian and Minrothadian trading consortiums near Pramayana and the Serpent peninsula. News of these attacks never reach the seagoing nations, as the last ships left the western ports with the autumn trade winds. The ships leaving for west with the spring trade winds are captured and added to the Nomad navy. Spring caravans are massacred and the proceeds added to the Nomad "war fund". Agents of nomads make preparations in Karameikos for shipping two nomad divisions to Black Eagle. They also contact nearby humanoid forces to replace the elements of the divisions that cannot be shipped to Karameikos. The Agents tip the present Kin faction Sultan of Ylaruam, Ali-Ben Faizal, of the impending invasion. In Rockhome, they contact frost giants and bribe them to join their side in the coming war. In Ethengar they feed Chanai's lust for power. - The surviving barbarian nations are surprised that the expected spring invasion isn't coming. They inform they ally Duke Yuri Turambar of this. In fact, Aphastes has delayed the invasion for a couple of reasons: 1) His intelligence network is in shatters, except in Ethgenar and Glantri. Many invasion plans have been crippled. 2) He has learned of the plans of Thanatos, who supports the Nomad invasion. He doesn't want to step on the toes of the Grin Reaper. On the other hand, if Thanatos is defeated, the southern realms will be ripe for invasion. 3) When Aphastes was released from imprisonment, he was able to enter Mystara. Not as an Avatar, but as a god, with most of his powers. This has enabled him to see the degradation of the fabric of the world [see: Twin Campaigns Timeline 100 AC, 450 AC and below], and he wishes to avoid the effects of "the Forgetting". - Some time during this year the cult of the Nithian undead god, weakened by the destruction of the Five spirits in Karameikos and the Blackstick in Denagoth, join Aphastes. The two gods forge an alliance. - "The Forgetting": This is a strange phenomenon that has been noticed in the few previous years, too. But now it becomes much more evident. Numerous historians, sages, seers and other people of knowledge notice that bits and pieces of the history seem to be missing. Key passages are mysteriously deleted from old documents. When scholars try to think about certain topics, their attention span shortens to nil, and they get terrible headaches. This touches many topics that are connected to the age of Withdrawal, Erystelle, legends of the World Cross, and many other things. (Note: This is an effect of the degradation of the chains of cause and effect, the fabric of the world. It sends ripples of disturbance back in time, eroding parts of history that deal with the breakdown of the world.) In the end many scholars fall comatose or become mad, including the Bensarian of Kevar - he had been given too much of the eroding information by Turambar, Penhaligon, Ivanovich and their friends. Nuwmont In the elven forests of western Wendar a true half-elven child is born. The parents are Yuri Turambar and Cymoril Stargazer (from Thanegioth, the Children of the Swan clan). An old treant sees a great but grim future for the child with star-like eyes. In Karameikos Baron von Hendricks learns that his ally Bargle the Infamous plans to usurp his power during the coming civil war. The Baron buys magical thought protection with a great cost and begins to think of a plan. Vatermont In Vestland, King Tenitar announces his plans to fortify the western and northern borders of the country. Fortresses will be built in Trollheim and the northern border. The latter will be under the command of Duke of Estine (Ivan Ivanovich). Bortak agents start to infiltrate both projects. Ivan Ivanovich disappears mysteriously, and is seen running with lions (!) in the Ethengarian plains. Thaumont Construction of the Vestlandian border fortresses begins. A Bortak agent is discovered in the northern fortress. In western Wendar Yuri Turambar finds the old lair of the renegade Glantrian wizard who participated in the Grystal wars. He is aided by a local kobold leader, who finds the legendary armour of the Shining One from there. The kobold P'Sagh will become a legend among the kobolds. Following a strange impulse Yuri Turambar begins a long climb to the Plateau of Gods. (Flaurmont- "Neverwhere") "REPAIRING THE WORLD" Yuri Turambar, Ivan Ivanovich, Alexander Penhaligon, the silvery dwarf Flint and the Lartan stream mage Rada find themselves on the Plateau of Gods. All of them seemed to arrive there for different reasons, all tied to their gods or in Rada's case, the new-found global magical axis - the Stream Mages sensed a disturbance in the ley lines. The five heroes reach the point in time and space when the world cross breaks away from the fabric of the world and is hurled back in time. Suddenly they find themselves in a Limbus, a virtual Neverwhere - cut away from their magic and their gods. But the various artefacts they have brought with them allow them to stay in this single point in history long enough to repair the fabric of time. Using their long and rich experience they manage to tie together links of cause and effect, battling strange visions and summoned events from the history (including a mechanical beast from Blackmoor). Strangely it seems that all of the events they touch have been in some way meaningful in their career� Finally they notice that with all their knowledge they are unable to link the four remaining causes and effects. In the moment of desperation the ancient elven hero Erystelle and his companions are flung forward in time by the World Cross which seeks to reunite itself with the world. The fabric of the world is repaired. But a lot of damage has been done. Event though the heroes were able to reconnect the scattered pieces of history, the Plateau of Gods has been ravaged. The Foci of Power of many gods have been wiped out of existence. This affects mostly the gods that are closely tied to this world and its fate. The Silvery one, Taranis and The Lion God have been "wiped out" by the degradation of time and space. Now the seemingly unconnected events of 100 AC make sense: From the statue of Taranis brought by Alexander Penhaligon a new Focus of Power is grown for the goddess. The silver dragons arrive with the fetal entity of living silver found under the Red Fangs and form it into a new Focus. The Lion Fortress that was freed in 1009 returns and lies down on the Plateau of Gods as the new Focus. Several such restorations of divine power are done elsewhere on the Plateau of Gods. Also, a surprising plan of Asterius the god of thieves (in one aspect) is revealed. The divine power he charged into Yuri Turambar was released straight into the World Cross, the fabric of the world. The powers of Asterius grow mightily, especially those of the thief aspect. (Note: Thousands of thieves all over Mystara suddenly notice that they have learned a lot of skills in a heartbeat. Woe the world and its purses.) The Lion God, Taranis and the Silvery One forge an alliance. They see a renewal of the Nithian triumvirate emerging in the future with the leadership of Aphastes, and wish to create a counter-force. This is supposed to take place in an era called "the Age of Hydra". To the astonished heroes they reveal what they themselves have just now learned. The repairing of the world was not a conscious act by the gods (or the heroes). Rather, all of them represented the World itself and its consciousness, trying to repair itself. But now they are free to follow the chains of meaning they have themselves created, the most grim one being the release of Aphastes from imprisonment. But before that they have to stop another threat that may yet prove to be bigger that the forces of Aphastes. The heroes are sent to Darokin, Akesoli. Flarumont The above mentioned heroes destroy an infestation of Hivebrood that tried to take over Akesoli. But a single broodmother egg is transported away from the nest to plague the future. A City Spirit living in Akesoli had freed a dozen of humans from the parasitic influence of the hivebrood and created a rudimentary collective consciousness for them. The new collective, "the Abandoned Ones", migrate to the lost halls of the Shadowelves. In the final days of Flaurmont a Desert Nomad division invade Akesoli. They are supported by crack troops from the Legion of Death, Hosadus's personal army, and some ritual magic of Thanatos. The Known World stands on the brink of destruction� ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 11:14:27 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Magic Items of Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm glad you like the items. I've discovered an error in "Njal's Spear", = though. The continual light spell should have been cast at the 6th level = of experience, since continual light is a 3rd level clerical spell, and = clerics don't have access to 3rd level spells until they are of 6th = level. Anyway, here are some more items, from Alfheim this time. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk --- Serpent Blade Description: This sword is made from a light material, resembling = hardened wood. It has a 3' long thin blade, but is harder than steel. = The grip is shaped like a coiling serpent, its forked tongue entwining = along the blade (the sword is identical to the one depicted on p.34 of = GAZ5). History: This sword is an Elven Longsword, created from enchanted = oakwood, and treated with sap from a Tree of Life. It belonged to Clan = Grunalf (the design is typical for that clan) of Alfheim, but was lent = to a hunter of that clan who was stalking a monster that had escaped = from the Thornbush Bad Magic Point. The hunter tracked the beast all the = way into Ethengar, where he was waylaid and killed by warriors of the = Yakkas tribe. They found the sword, and was awed by its apparent magical = nature. They called it "Serpent Blade" and brought it back with them. = Since then, the sword has exchanged hands many times. It is probably = just a matter of time before it finds its way into the hands of a Khan. Game Details: Serpent Blade is a regular Elven Longsword. It does 1d6+1 = damage and counts as a magic weapon without any pluses. It has a = built-in detect danger spell. By concentrating on an area or object, the = sword will glow if that area or object is dangerous. The intensity of = the glow denotes both distance to the threat and threat level. The = Ethengarians are unaware of the detect danger power of Serpent Blade. Slayer Description: Simply an arrow made of hardened wood, Slayer's specific = design is identical to the arrow depicted for Clan Erendyl on p.48 of = GAZ5. History: This arrow was part of a batch of arrows that had been = specially enchanted to combat trolls. It was made from a limb of Clan = Erendyl of Alfheim's Tree of Life, and its arrowhead was tempered in sap = from that Tree. It was fired during a humanoid raid, where it instantly = killed a large troll. A kobold called Ungh-Picky-Fingers saw the obvious = power of the arrow, grabbed it, and ran for home. Ungh was one of only a = few survivors and naturally his chief assumed that he had deserted the = raid. Faced with the chief's lieutenant, a troll called = Raorr-Kobold-Swallower, Ungh used the only option open to him: he fired = the looted arrow at Raorr from his short bow. Raorr was struck in the = throat, looked momentarily surprised, then fell dead at (and on) Ungh's = feet. Ungh snatched the arrow, then proclaimed himself the most powerful = of kobolds and replaced the current chief. Ungh's descendants have since = then ruled their tribe, the power of Slayer ensuring their rule. Game Details: Slayer is an Elven Arrow+1 with the special talent of = Slaying Regenerating Monsters. Any regenerating creature struck by = Slayer must make a saving throw vs. death ray or die, instantly. Every = time the arrow is fired (whether it hits or misses), there is a 10% = chance that it will break upon impact. Elven Gloves Description: These leather gloves are of superior craftmanship. The = fingertips are actually made of specially-treated leaves from a Tree of = Life. The gloves seem to almost meld with the wearer's skin, and provide = great sensitivity while also protecting hands and fingers. History: This pair of gloves was crafted by a famous tanner of Clan Long = Runner of Alfheim. They were made to assist the tanner herself in her = work. Her items became so famous that merchants began to seek her works = exclusively. While she enjoyed her work, the attention she got and the = orders she received were simply outrageous. She didn't want to turn all = those people down, but she just couldn't keep up with the demands. = Eventually, she sold the gloves to a Darokinian merchant, and went back = to producing items that, while still fine, were not outstanding. As a = result her fame faded, and she still happily plies her trade. The gloves = quickly found their way into the hands of a thieves' guild, who used = their powers for a more sinister purpose. Game Details: Ordinarily these gloves will grant a bonus of +2 to Skill = checks involving sensitive finger work, such as sewing, weaving, = tanning, bow-making, or cheating. They also give the wearer a bonus of = +1 to find secret doors. When worn by a thief, they grant a bonus of = +10% to Open Locks, Remove Traps, and Pick Pockets. Additionally, they = give a +2 bonus to saving throws vs. needle type traps, since they are = hard to penetrate. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 11:16:01 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Magic Items of Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry that message shouldn't have been sent to the list, but "Bob", you = can just grab it from there. And the rest of you can enjoy it if you = will. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:12:02 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "G.P. Agosta" Subject: Re: Lupin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Angelo Bertolli wrote: > Are there any writings someone has done about the Lupin race? Of course. I did writeups of the lupin pantheon for the Immortals Project, and a "Lupins of Glantri" article and a Lupin NPC for the Glantrian Personnel Division. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:38:12 +0300 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Eyal Fleminger Subject: Re: Lupin Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The article in Dragon 237 was written for AD&D; there is also an earlier article (don't remember the number, but I think it was the Princess Ark chapter on Renardy) giving OD&D details. I wrote a conversion of the AD&D rules to OD&D; I hope to put it up on a web page (along with other material) over the weekend. > > > Are there any writings someone has done about the Lupin race? > >The main one that I can think of is Bruce Heard's article in Dragon >magazine -- issue 237, IIRC, which is available in the CD-ROM >archive. The Vaults of Pandius site probably has other material >as well -- in fact, it seems to have every fan-produced writing >about Mystara ever written. > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 08:51:47 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: I couldn't believe it but it's true Stalker wrote: >I wonder, though, is a discussion about Chick tracts really not appropriate >on this list? There was a similar discussion on DND-L about this about a >year ago (and the moderators are much harsher there!), and it was never >stopped. It just sort of died out eventually, but it lasted about a month >and a lot of interesting points were made and relevant facts and >information brought to my attention, so I really did think it was >worthwhile. In that respect, discussing the Dark Dungeons Chick tract is fine, since it affects our hobby - inasmuch as some people may actually make a judgement on our activities based upon what is written in that booklet. My point on the matter was that there is a fine line between denigrating that tract as the hearsay that it is (it's obvious Chick never sat in on a D&D session), and issuing general statements about religious people, owing to the nature of Chick and his work (even though Jeff rightly points out that there are many Christians who avoid associating themselves with those tracts). This is a topic where people's emotions can flare up quickly, and as a result it's possible to post something that would be regretted later on. Same thing with the "$" issue. I'm just as pissed off as the next guy about what happened to Mystara - I stopped subscribing to Dragon over it, and I never bought another new TSR product afterwards. But at the same time I can't see how expressing our anger in that way can be constructive. Anyhow, that's all I have to say on the matter. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 07:52:17 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Alfheim Ravaged pt.1 Comments: To: MYSTARA-L@.WIZARDS.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hey everyone!=20 I realize everyone has different times for their campaign, but I just = wanted to share how IMC Alfhiem had fallen.=20 First of all, with the Alfheim Skull Legion things were not so easy to = take things away from the Alfheimers.=20 So what happened was: General Gilfronden thought an attack in the night on the city of Alfheim = late at night would be the perfect plan. Things did not go well though as = the shadow elves began taking over the city, information was leaked to the = Emerald legion's general; Gen. Grave Digger. Fortunately, the Skull Legion Cavalry did arrive in time to save the city, = but being late at night, many of the elves were sound asleep. Many awoke = to the sounds of charging horse as the Skull Legion Cavalry rode down and = fought with the Shadow Elves.=20 After the city had been rescued, Gen Grave Digger, (who is also of = berserker temperment) was commended for his actions, by his overlord, Lord = Nightbay, but was removed from the Alfhiem post. The reason was: "Although we appreciate the quick actions by General Grave Digger and = his men, his charge into the city of Alfheim has terrified the populace. = Many are not aware of the Shadow Elf's intrusion, and we the council wish = it to remain so, as we do not wish to cause panic. Therefore we courteously= ask that he be replaced with someone less excitable." Needless to say, the general was sent to Ethengar, where his skills = "could be best utilised." He was replace by General Dead Speak. Then all was quiet except for the = intermittent raids of the Shadow Elves Shadow Elves make their move: The Shadow elves after destroying the magic of Alfhiem, upgraded their = punitive raids. One such incident was a raid on an elven wedding party, = where a group of PC's are attending. Four Skull Warriors were hired as mercenaries as the elves were worried = about security in a secluded grove where the ceremony was to take place. The first arrow shot hit the elven elder conducting the ceremony in the = middle of the forehead! This caused a major panic. Soon arrows filled the = air and men, women, and children alike were cut down. Two of the skull = warriors were cutdown next. And only through the actions of the attending = PC's were they able to evacuate the survivors. In no time, a nearby elven cavalry patrol hearing the screams raced to the = scene and chased off the Shadow Elves.=20 King Doriath at this time was having a frustrating time with his council, = as they were pressuring him to name an heir. Also during the same = discussion, news reached the royal court of the wedding massacre. Doriath = decides to put the entire Alfhiem Skull Legion on alert, but the council = (many who were not aware of the full past events) tell him that they can't = be trusted as to how they rode through the streets last time causing panic = and terror. Doriath says nothing as it was agreed by the clan council to = say nothing of the intended coup. In frustration, Doriath decides court is = adjourned and announces a great hunt! Of course he is again pestered about = naming an heir. In response, he points to one of the human foresters of = the council, and says "I name you heir, until my return" this shocks the = council and outrage. Doriath doesn't mind though, as the hunt will be for = but a day. Later he will think he acted hastily. but oh well, what is a = single day to an elf? Things go wrong! On the hunt Doriath is killed with an arrow of Slaying. No one finds the = murderers but all make the assumption that it was the work of the shadow = elves. (No one realizes of course that it was General Gilfronden who shot = him. The night previous, the Shadow Elves infiltrate the Emerald Legion and = kill General Dead Speak. The next in line is the commanders, but there is = 20 of them, and none can agree what is to be done. Now that Doriath is dead, Gilfronden gives the Shadow Elves the order for = a full scale invasion. This time, the Shadow Elves make a small but = sizeable appearance at the caves of the Sump. The larger force emerges = deep in the forests of Eastern Alfheim, away from the clan towns.=20 The human forester, know as Malcom Marksmen is seen by the council as an = incompentent. Even though he is in charge, he is hard pressed with the = forces at hand to stop the Shadow Elf invasion force. When he sends out = scouts to contact the Emerald Legion to mobilize they don't get through. = Their bodies are never recovered, only the ponies. Finally Malcom hires a = group of PC's to get to the legion to warn of the invasion and tell them = to mobilize. When the party gets through to the legion they find it sitting doing = nothing. Without a general, the legion is leaderless as the next in = command are the Commanders, and there is 17 of them (out of a possible 20) = So they bide their time until the Legion ambassador returns from the = legion homelands where he informs the leaders of their legion that their = general is dead. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 08:26:36 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Alfheim Ravaged pt. 2 Comments: To: MYSTARA-L@.WIZARDS.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A Black Dragon Arrives! A black dragon arrives in the court of the legion castle. On it's back is = a rider in Black and grey plate mail, with batlike wings adorning his = helmet. He carries a lance which is painted black, he says nothing until = he dismounts. When he does, he announces "I am General Iron Claw, your new = commander!"=20 The PC's who are at the legion are in awe as they watch this black clad = skeletal face head towards them. "And who are you?" he challenges. The PCs quickly inform him who they are and tell him of the dire situation = of the Alfheim forest. As he enters the interior of the castle the = ambassador gives him a note from the council. He reads it, then crushes it = in his hand.=20 "It seems my first time at command will be a disgrace." Without further = elaboration Iron Claw puts the legion into readiness for the campaign. He = quickly meets the commanders to get an understanding of the situation. In = the meantime, the PCs learn Feador has fallen, the refugees are fleeing = to Pinitel. Iron Claw tells them to blow the bridge leading to Pinitel to = slow down the invading Shadow Elves. The party does, but it is a very = close race as the Shadow Elves appear just as the bridge collapses into = the river.=20 When they return, Iron Claw sends the PCs back to Alfhiem to tell Malcom = Marksmen, the legion is on it's way.=20 As the party gets back, Gilfronden sneers at the party, saying that this = is an over reaction calling in the legion for minor Shadow Elf incursions. = The party in it's travel have also learned, that Gilfronden is a traitor. = When they inform Marksmen, he orders the guards to seize him.=20 Gilfronden denies the accusations, but Marksmen challenges him to a truth = spell. In return Gilfronden tries to attack Marksmen, but with PCs and = guards is quickly overcome.=20 Marksmen, from high above the city of Alfheim tells the citizens that = Feador has fallen and a traitor has been found. Marksmen shocks all when = he reveals who it is. For his treachery, Gilfronden is hung on the spot. = Marksmen then meets urgently with the council who now decide to see how = things play out. In the next few days, Pinitel falls as well, this time though, it is a = long fought battle as the Legion holds the outnumbering shadow elves at = bay until the populace can retreat.=20 After the council meets, the PCs present a letter to the council from Gen. = Iron Claw that states: "If it is the destiny of the Shadow Elves to take the land of the = Alfheimers, I have been given orders to leave them nothing of their = victory but ash. As to your beloved forest, when it's magic waned and it = grew sickly and dangerous, you forest was no more. This forest is now a = mere mockery in a twisted mannner of what it was. I assure you, that it = will grow again, after this diseased replica is burnt to the ground." The legion escorts the various clans out of the forest, as other groups of = legionairres begin setting the forest aflame. The shadow elves upon seeing this grow enraged, and any Skull Warrior is = caught is tortured slowly before being put to death. For burning their = claimed lands, the legion will pay!=20 And so the great forest of Alfheim was no more..... JK Wolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 11:07:51 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dave Keyser Organization: Palmchip Subject: Re: Mystara stuff on list for ESD continuation! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "David S. Leland" wrote: > From Eric Noah's 3e News website (http://www.rpgplanet.com/dnd3e): > > >May 22, 2001 > > > >ESD Program to Resume Under Butler: Posted to WIZINFO-L by WotC's Julia Martin was this encouraging note regarding the ESD program: > > > >The list of 600 includes virtually all OD&D and Mystara stuff, and can be viewed at http://www.rpgplanet.com/dnd3e/downloads/esd501.txt Woo hoo! > > Magus Coeruleus > One extra cool thing about that list, it contains the internal product codes for everything, like S5 was the Dancing Hut of Baba Yaga. I personally liked having those as an easy reference, but they had to dropped due to distributor short-sightedness. Dave Keyser ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 20:01:54 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: Alfheim Ravaged pt.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Thank you very much. As for me this is very interesting and gives me alot of ideas. You see, my campaign actually takes place somewhat in the past. I started it out in the year 890. >From: Joe Kelly >Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion >To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >Subject: [MYSTARA] Alfheim Ravaged pt.1 >Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 07:52:17 -0700 > >hey everyone! > >I realize everyone has different times for their campaign, but I just >wanted to share how IMC Alfhiem had fallen. >First of all, with the Alfheim Skull Legion things were not so easy to take >things away from the Alfheimers. >So what happened was: >General Gilfronden thought an attack in the night on the city of Alfheim >late at night would be the perfect plan. Things did not go well though as >the shadow elves began taking over the city, information was leaked to the >Emerald legion's general; Gen. Grave Digger. >Fortunately, the Skull Legion Cavalry did arrive in time to save the city, >but being late at night, many of the elves were sound asleep. Many awoke to >the sounds of charging horse as the Skull Legion Cavalry rode down and >fought with the Shadow Elves. >After the city had been rescued, Gen Grave Digger, (who is also of >berserker temperment) was commended for his actions, by his overlord, Lord >Nightbay, but was removed from the Alfhiem post. The reason was: > "Although we appreciate the quick actions by General Grave Digger and >his men, his charge into the city of Alfheim has terrified the populace. >Many are not aware of the Shadow Elf's intrusion, and we the council wish >it to remain so, as we do not wish to cause panic. Therefore we courteously >ask that he be replaced with someone less excitable." > Needless to say, the general was sent to Ethengar, where his skills >"could be best utilised." > He was replace by General Dead Speak. Then all was quiet except for the >intermittent raids of the Shadow Elves >Shadow Elves make their move: >The Shadow elves after destroying the magic of Alfhiem, upgraded their >punitive raids. One such incident was a raid on an elven wedding party, >where a group of PC's are attending. >Four Skull Warriors were hired as mercenaries as the elves were worried >about security in a secluded grove where the ceremony was to take place. >The first arrow shot hit the elven elder conducting the ceremony in the >middle of the forehead! This caused a major panic. Soon arrows filled the >air and men, women, and children alike were cut down. Two of the skull >warriors were cutdown next. And only through the actions of the attending >PC's were they able to evacuate the survivors. >In no time, a nearby elven cavalry patrol hearing the screams raced to the >scene and chased off the Shadow Elves. >King Doriath at this time was having a frustrating time with his council, >as they were pressuring him to name an heir. Also during the same >discussion, news reached the royal court of the wedding massacre. Doriath >decides to put the entire Alfhiem Skull Legion on alert, but the council >(many who were not aware of the full past events) tell him that they can't >be trusted as to how they rode through the streets last time causing panic >and terror. Doriath says nothing as it was agreed by the clan council to >say nothing of the intended coup. In frustration, Doriath decides court is >adjourned and announces a great hunt! Of course he is again pestered about >naming an heir. In response, he points to one of the human foresters of the >council, and says "I name you heir, until my return" this shocks the >council and outrage. Doriath doesn't mind though, as the hunt will be for >but a day. Later he will think he acted hastily. but oh well, what is a >single day to an elf? >Things go wrong! >On the hunt Doriath is killed with an arrow of Slaying. No one finds the >murderers but all make the assumption that it was the work of the shadow >elves. (No one realizes of course that it was General Gilfronden who shot >him. >The night previous, the Shadow Elves infiltrate the Emerald Legion and kill >General Dead Speak. The next in line is the commanders, but there is 20 of >them, and none can agree what is to be done. >Now that Doriath is dead, Gilfronden gives the Shadow Elves the order for a >full scale invasion. This time, the Shadow Elves make a small but sizeable >appearance at the caves of the Sump. The larger force emerges deep in the >forests of Eastern Alfheim, away from the clan towns. >The human forester, know as Malcom Marksmen is seen by the council as an >incompentent. Even though he is in charge, he is hard pressed with the >forces at hand to stop the Shadow Elf invasion force. When he sends out >scouts to contact the Emerald Legion to mobilize they don't get through. >Their bodies are never recovered, only the ponies. Finally Malcom hires a >group of PC's to get to the legion to warn of the invasion and tell them to >mobilize. > When the party gets through to the legion they find it sitting doing >nothing. Without a general, the legion is leaderless as the next in command >are the Commanders, and there is 17 of them (out of a possible 20) So they >bide their time until the Legion ambassador returns from the legion >homelands where he informs the leaders of their legion that their general >is dead. > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 06:46:48 +1000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: Lupin Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 20:37 22/05/01 -0400, David Knott wrote: >From: "Angelo Bertolli" > >> Are there any writings someone has done about the Lupin race? > >The main one that I can think of is Bruce Heard's article in Dragon >magazine -- issue 237, IIRC, which is available in the CD-ROM >archive. The Vaults of Pandius site probably has other material >as well -- in fact, it seems to have every fan-produced writing >about Mystara ever written. except those that people choose to keep on their own sites shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 15:04:21 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joaquin Menchaca Subject: Re: Ranting Re: [MYSTARA] The battle of Wilmik. (the start of a campain) In-Reply-To: <7f.149e75b8.283a5585@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hey. FYI. If I ever post something, like a contribution or story. Please go ahead and criticize me. I am happy that people are reading it, and perhaps even using it. I think the original criticism was well intentioned. I do not beleive any malice was intentioned. I do not see it as an attack. However, other comments do indeed seem to be attacks. And that is just not cool. ciao, Joaquin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 15:21:21 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joaquin Menchaca Subject: Re: Status of Discussing "Chick Tracts" on MML (was Re: I couldn't believe it but it's true) In-Reply-To: <3B0AE944.15590.2C08C1BD@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii And what's the point? --- "Jenni A.M. Merrifield" wrote: > Actually, that is incorrect. If you read the > official guidelines for > this list, although it's /primary/ purpose is for > the discussion of Mystara > in any and all incarnation, it has a /secondary/ > purpose of being for a > discussion of "OD&D" -- original D&D (Basic, Expert, > etc. and Rules > Cyclopedia) -- though not for AD&D "in general" > (AD&D is "okay" when it > relates specifically to Mystara). > > The discussion of the Chick Track "Dark Dungeons" > isn't exactly > restricted to any version or edition of D&D -- be it > Original, Advanced, or > 3rd Edition -- so it is at least /conceivable/ that, > as a topic of interest > to anyone who plays "OD&D", that it could be > considered to be somewhat "on > topic". > > Nonetheless, the Admin has said that he doesn't > want the topic discussed > any more for fear of flame wars, etc. And that is > all we list members > should need to just "drop the subject". > > Jenni A. M. Merrifield > -=> strawberryJAMM <=- [snip] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 15:41:37 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joaquin Menchaca Subject: Re: OT: Of rants and... rants In-Reply-To: <0bb901c0e0b6$176c0a00$e8a61a26@q6s7w2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I was just confused. How is using T$R or Ha$bro considered name calling?!? *Puzzled look* I thought name calling is when you call someone a NAME. Like Beavis often calls Butthead (or was that the other way around) ButtMunch or Dilhole. Those would be names, and thus considered NAME-CALLING. Also, we are talking about entities controlled by executives and business managers, whom have historically perhaps made bad or disagreeable decisions. How can a person call a company a NAME. I can say Apple is STUPID or Microsoft is EVIL, but who is Apple or Microsoft; they are not people. Lastly, why is there so much ferver for fanatically defending TSR and Hasbro. This reminds me of a story I once read about someone being fired for drinking Pepsi, on his lunch break when working at Coca-Cola. TSR or Hasbro, is not a religion; it is not a nation; it is not a person. Yet is seems that some are personally affected by the "$". This just doesn't seem to make any sense. --- David Knott wrote: [snip] > I quite agree -- but while there is a place for > criticism, name calling is > another matter, and putting currency symbols in the > above company > names is name calling that will probably drown out > any legitimate > complaint you may be making. [snip] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 15:58:12 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: I couldn't believe it but it's true On Wed, 23 May 2001 08:51:47 -0400, Geoff Gander wrote: >Stalker wrote: > >>I wonder, though, is a discussion about Chick tracts really not appropriate >>on this list? There was a similar discussion on DND-L about this about a >>year ago (and the moderators are much harsher there!), and it was never >>stopped. It just sort of died out eventually, but it lasted about a month >>and a lot of interesting points were made and relevant facts and >>information brought to my attention, so I really did think it was >>worthwhile. > >In that respect, discussing the Dark Dungeons Chick tract is fine, since >it affects our hobby - inasmuch as some people may actually make a >judgement on our activities based upon what is written in that booklet. >My point on the matter was that there is a fine line between denigrating >that tract as the hearsay that it is (it's obvious Chick never sat in on a >D&D session), True, but then Patricia Pulling was also considered an "expert on D&D and role-playing", though her claims of knowledge revealed that she knew little of it, as she often referred to how companies continued to release corrupting games and then named companies that had gone under and games that had been out of print for years (interested parties should read Michael A. Stackpole's "The Pulling Report"). > and issuing general statements about religious people, owing >to the nature of Chick and his work (even though Jeff rightly points out >that there are many Christians who avoid associating themselves with those >tracts). This is a topic where people's emotions can flare up quickly, and >as a result it's possible to post something that would be regretted later on. > This is the real problem with Chick's "work" I think - it doesn't just hurt us role-players in the eyes of many religious people (not just Christians, I think), it also hurts their religions in our eyes because we could jump to the conclusion all Christians act the way Chick manages to describe. IMHO compassion and understanding is at the core of Christianity and most other religions we could mention, and I think the points Chick is trying to make are the exact opposite of that. That's just my own opinion, though, uninformed as it may be... >Same thing with the "$" issue. I'm just as pissed off as the next guy >about what happened to Mystara - I stopped subscribing to Dragon over it, >and I never bought another new TSR product afterwards. But at the same >time I can't see how expressing our anger in that way can be constructive. > We are in complete agreement, then. - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 18:02:47 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: OT: Of rants and... rants MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit They are legal entities in the eyes of the law. They have the right to defend themselves. Mocking their names is an attack on their reputation, which in the eyes of the law is libel. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joaquin Menchaca" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] OT: Of rants and... rants > I was just confused. How is using T$R or Ha$bro > considered name calling?!? *Puzzled look* > > I thought name calling is when you call someone a > NAME. Like Beavis often calls Butthead (or was that > the other way around) ButtMunch or Dilhole. Those > would be names, and thus considered NAME-CALLING. > > Also, we are talking about entities controlled by > executives and business managers, whom have > historically perhaps made bad or disagreeable > decisions. How can a person call a company a NAME. I > can say Apple is STUPID or Microsoft is EVIL, but who > is Apple or Microsoft; they are not people. > > Lastly, why is there so much ferver for fanatically > defending TSR and Hasbro. This reminds me of a story > I once read about someone being fired for drinking > Pepsi, on his lunch break when working at Coca-Cola. > TSR or Hasbro, is not a religion; it is not a nation; > it is not a person. Yet is seems that some are > personally affected by the "$". This just doesn't > seem to make any sense. > > --- David Knott wrote: > > [snip] > > > I quite agree -- but while there is a place for > > criticism, name calling is > > another matter, and putting currency symbols in the > > above company > > names is name calling that will probably drown out > > any legitimate > > complaint you may be making. > > [snip] > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 18:08:15 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Ranting Re: [MYSTARA] The battle of Wilmik. (the start of a campain) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Me too. As a professional writer I must know if something I write makes sense, or if I have made a mistake. I also feel that if I expect people to read something (i.e. make a post) that I should take the time to make sure it is readable. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joaquin Menchaca" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 5:04 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Ranting Re: [MYSTARA] The battle of Wilmik. (the start of a campain) > Hey. FYI. If I ever post something, like a > contribution or story. Please go ahead and criticize > me. I am happy that people are reading it, and > perhaps even using it. > > I think the original criticism was well intentioned. > I do not beleive any malice was intentioned. I do not > see it as an attack. However, other comments do > indeed seem to be attacks. And that is just not cool. > > ciao, > Joaquin > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 00:32:03 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: A simple question from a simple mind Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed There's lot of cool Mystara stuff than came from the net, some of it found on the Vaults, some at other sites, but anyway, with a setting as big and detailed as Mystara and whit all the new places created by fans there's a lot of place you could want to send your players. The problem is how to send them there ? Espacially if you don't want them to stay there long. Travel can take a long time, espacially when a dwarf in your party won't get on a boat. One Mystara awnser seems to be the airship. Last time I gave the player an airship ( which was not in Mystara ) he found so many ways to abuse the power it gave him... well lets just say he's very creative and that's another story. Just wondering how anyone here handles this, or if they just stay in the KW or SC. This would make another interesting question... has anyone here started a mystara campaign, let's say on Davania or somewhere else. I also wonder how much poeple use either official stuff describing far away places or fan based stuff describing far away places. So far myself I have read a good deal of stuff but didnt use any. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 22:07:06 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Bill Manley Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed usually if I have a PC that doesn't want to cooperate (like a dwarf and a boat thing), I either give them a very good reason why they should get on the boat. say a large creature they couldn't possibly defeat or something like that. but most of the time a good sleep spell or a nice crack on the back of the head works well too. usually it depends on the situation. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 22:24:38 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Bill Manley Subject: Re: Ranting Re: [MYSTARA] The battle of Wilmik. (the start of a campain) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed hey, I mispell stuff. alot of ppl do, and I'm sure most ppl realize when the make a spelling error. sometimes ppl don't realize they made an error. and then there are ppl that speak a differant language and have no idea how to spell something. to most ppl it is an insult to say they spelled something wrong and then don't offer to show them the correct spelling of the words in question. my question is: why didn't you point out spelling mistakes to everyone on the list george? why just me? someone puts the time into sharing a story with you and the only thing you have to say is "you did this wrong and you don't make sence here and there..." it kinda irritates me. If I had written the story with the hopes of having it published, then yes, I would take the time to correct spelling mistakes. but since I was just sharing a story, I didn't fix errors. you understood the story right? so what's your problem? the point is, if you don't like the way someone types or spells, build a bridge and get over it. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 22:35:06 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: A Timeline for Mystara part three MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nothing to be ashamed of. Everyone started somewhere and this stuff looks pretty cool to me! My own campaign also deviates significantly from canon, but you have put alot more thought into the past that I have. At least you were able to work past campaign "blunders" into the timeline to form a coherent story. Keep it up. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 19:51:26 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: OT: Of rants and... rants On Wed, 23 May 2001 15:41:37 -0700, Joaquin Menchaca wrote: >I was just confused. How is using T$R or Ha$bro >considered name calling?!? *Puzzled look* > Simple - because the companies don't like the names and are offended when someone uses them. After the "$" sign can easily be understood to imply that they are just a bunch of greedy suits who like only the money they can squize out of us gamers, and they don't like that. I may not like many of their policies or business decisions, but I can well understand why they take objection to that. I would too! >I thought name calling is when you call someone a >NAME. Like Beavis often calls Butthead (or was that >the other way around) ButtMunch or Dilhole. Those >would be names, and thus considered NAME-CALLING. > >Also, we are talking about entities controlled by >executives and business managers, whom have >historically perhaps made bad or disagreeable >decisions. How can a person call a company a NAME. I >can say Apple is STUPID or Microsoft is EVIL, but who >is Apple or Microsoft; they are not people. > Actually, they are - they are all the people who work there. Otherwise I should be able to say that that some country is stupid and get away with it. If I do, people from that country are likely to be offended, just as I might be if someone called my country stupid. If I worked at Microsoft (which I don't) and you called Microsoft evil, I would take that to mean that I'm evil because I work there or that I did evil things. Naturally, I wouldn't like that. Most likely I would be offended or hurt, or both. >Lastly, why is there so much ferver for fanatically >defending TSR and Hasbro. This reminds me of a story >I once read about someone being fired for drinking >Pepsi, on his lunch break when working at Coca-Cola. >TSR or Hasbro, is not a religion; it is not a nation; >it is not a person. Yet is seems that some are >personally affected by the "$". This just doesn't >seem to make any sense. > I don't defend them. In fact, I have heavily criticized a number of things they've done, most of them in the recent year. This was probably mostly on DND-L, but I'm sure people here can remember strong criticism I have voiced here. For example, I find WOTC's policies of doing business over the internet with only people from certain nations to be beneath criticism. They claim to have reasons, but I don't accept their explanations. I was furious last year when had their "Last Call" for buying the old D&D stuff they had lying around before they destroyed it, because I couldn't buy any of them, not being on the 'favored nations'-list. I did manage to buy the stuff I wanted through an incredibly nice guy in the USA whom I met on DND- L and who volunteered to buy the stuff for me (thanks Brett), but it was certainly no thanks to WOTC! In fact, I sent several messages to DND-L on the matter and was referred to their so-called "customer service". I put the term in quotation-marks because they didn't reply for two months, and only replied after I started drawing attention to the fact on DND-L, at which time Keith Strohm personally assured me that he would see to it that my mails were answered, possibly because WOTC didn't want bad press on their own mailing list, but I'm not about to say bad things about Keith Strohm, after all - he was the only WOTC employee who took me seriously! So, no, I don't care much for WOTC/Hasbro's decisions, but it doesn't mean I don't have to be civil about my criticism of them. If I were, they would be a lot more justified in ignoring my complaints. - The Stalker (my apologies to those of you who consider this spamming) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 23:43:17 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just be creative and you can get them to go anywhere. Mostly, my PCs have stayed in the KW and Norwold, but there have been quests across the continent, along the SC to the Arm of the Immortals, and even to other planes. Another group has been stuck in the HW far longer than they would like. My 3rd group is a mid-level (7-8) group based entirely in NW. Airships can give them a big benefit if they get one before it "matches" their level. Just wait until later, when they all have perm. Fly spells. Thankfully, the HW group's were cast at a level that could be dispelled and they have been relegated to old-fashioned travel again. If power is abused, find a way to counter it. Otherwise, let them make the trek overland, or by sailing from port to port. Don't be afraid to let some time pass. I had a very high level MU PC sail along the SC with his allies as part of a prophecy he read in an ancient tome. He didn't want to miss something and invalidate the prophecy so he sailed along by ship, instead of just teleporting to his ultimate goal. The player was convinced that he had to raise a fleet of ships and travel the hard way. All of the PCs had perm. fly, but they still travelled with the ships, to serve as their base. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gilles Leblanc" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 8:32 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] A simple question from a simple mind > There's lot of cool Mystara stuff than came from the net, some of it found > on the Vaults, some at other sites, but anyway, with a setting as big and > detailed as Mystara and whit all the new places created by fans there's a > lot of place you could want to send your players. > > The problem is how to send them there ? Espacially if you don't want them to > stay there long. Travel can take a long time, espacially when a dwarf in > your party won't get on a boat. > > One Mystara awnser seems to be the airship. Last time I gave the player an > airship ( which was not in Mystara ) he found so many ways to abuse the > power it gave him... well lets just say he's very creative and that's > another story. > > Just wondering how anyone here handles this, or if they just stay in the KW > or SC. This would make another interesting question... has anyone here > started a mystara campaign, let's say on Davania or somewhere else. > > I also wonder how much poeple use either official stuff describing far away > places or fan based stuff describing far away places. > > So far myself I have read a good deal of stuff but didnt use any. > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 23:39:10 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Ranting Re: [MYSTARA] The battle of Wilmik. (the start of a campain) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the first place, I said there were only three things wrong with it; otherwise it was okay. Those were very close to my exact words. This was the first story written on this list that I have taken the time to read all the way through, that is why I have not pointed it out to other people. An occasional typo is acceptable, in my opinion. Running an average of two typos per sentence is not only sloppy, it shows an incredible disregard for the prospective reader; it is like saying, "I don't care about you, I don't respect you." In short, it is an insult. You expect people to read your work, then you have the responsibility to have some respect for your readers. By the way, you DID publish your story. You published it to this list. You forced everyone on this list to receive it. It took up bandwidth. It is occupying space on my computer as we speak. You, as the author of this piece of fiction, have made no effort to convince me to do more than simply delete anything that I receive in the future that has your name on it. When I made a constructive suggestion, you came at me like I had taken a shot at you. Well, I will not make that mistake again! Write whatever you like. Normally I like to help budding writers, since I am already published (and an active columnist and member of the Horror Writers Association) my advice is usually accepted with at least some measure of tolerance at least. I am not accustomed to being attacked and called stupid. I will forgo any further attempt to make helpful suggestions to you. In fact, I will simply delete anything with your name on it that comes across the list. That way there will be no chance that you will take anything I say in the wrong way! George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Manley" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 9:24 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Ranting Re: [MYSTARA] The battle of Wilmik. (the start of a campain) > hey, I mispell stuff. alot of ppl do, and I'm sure most ppl realize when the > make a spelling error. sometimes ppl don't realize they made an error. and > then there are ppl that speak a differant language and have no idea how to > spell something. to most ppl it is an insult to say they spelled something > wrong and then don't offer to show them the correct spelling of the words in > question. > > my question is: why didn't you point out spelling mistakes to everyone on > the list george? why just me? > > someone puts the time into sharing a story with you and the only thing you > have to say is "you did this wrong and you don't make sence here and > there..." it kinda irritates me. If I had written the story with the hopes > of having it published, then yes, I would take the time to correct spelling > mistakes. but since I was just sharing a story, I didn't fix errors. you > understood the story right? so what's your problem? > > the point is, if you don't like the way someone types or spells, build a > bridge and get over it. > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 01:19:16 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: Ranting Re: [MYSTARA] The battle of Wilmik. (the start of a campain) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George, Lighten up, brother! :-) I hope I'm not over extending my bounds, but as a neutral observer, it seems that Mr. Manley is trying to reconcile with you and not cause further animosity. Try to take what he says in good faith and let it be water under the bridge. I do see your perspective as a professional writer where mis-spellings and such are simply unacceptable. This list is an informal forum, with subscribers from all different countries, regions and backgrounds, with a wide variety of writing abilities. It is very easy for e-mail correspondence to be taken the wrong way, since facial expressions, tone, etc, can not be discerned. I have had serious mis-understandings with my closest friends over e-mail correspondence, which were quickly clarified by simple phone calls. With strangers, greater care must be taken to make sure everyone understands each other. You said that originally you were trying to help, but that Bill responded as if it were an attack. It certainly is not required for you to assist him further, but it might be a nice thing to do. He seemed receptive to your help, and appeared somewhat taken off guard by your comments. For example, in no way did you preface your remarks with something such as, "This is the first story on the MML that I have read in full. I am a professional writer, and have several suggestions that would make future submissions to the list more acceptable to the list as a whole." We all have free will, so if you do decide to delete all posts from Bill Manley, no one can stop you. However, as this was aired in a public forum, I will at least try to bring some perspective to this issue, since it seems that you are both taking this thing personally. The easy way out is to cut the other guy off. It takes much more effort to reconcile, but perhaps it will be worth it the end. Sincerely, Dan Eustace ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Hrabovsky" To: Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 12:39 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Ranting Re: [MYSTARA] The battle of Wilmik. (the start of a campain) > In the first place, I said there were only three things wrong with it; > otherwise it was okay. Those were very close to my exact words. This was the > first story written on this list that I have taken the time to read all the > way through, that is why I have not pointed it out to other people. An > occasional typo is acceptable, in my opinion. Running an average of two > typos per sentence is not only sloppy, it shows an incredible disregard for > the prospective reader; it is like saying, "I don't care about you, I don't > respect you." In short, it is an insult. You expect people to read your > work, then you have the responsibility to have some respect for your > readers. > > By the way, you DID publish your story. You published it to this list. You > forced everyone on this list to receive it. It took up bandwidth. It is > occupying space on my computer as we speak. You, as the author of this piece > of fiction, have made no effort to convince me to do more than simply delete > anything that I receive in the future that has your name on it. When I made > a constructive suggestion, you came at me like I had taken a shot at you. > Well, I will not make that mistake again! Write whatever you like. Normally > I like to help budding writers, since I am already published (and an active > columnist and member of the Horror Writers Association) my advice is usually > accepted with at least some measure of tolerance at least. I am not > accustomed to being attacked and called stupid. I will forgo any further > attempt to make helpful suggestions to you. In fact, I will simply delete > anything with your name on it that comes across the list. That way there > will be no chance that you will take anything I say in the wrong way! > > George > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Manley" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 9:24 PM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Ranting Re: [MYSTARA] The battle of Wilmik. (the > start of a campain) > > > > hey, I mispell stuff. alot of ppl do, and I'm sure most ppl realize when > the > > make a spelling error. sometimes ppl don't realize they made an error. and > > then there are ppl that speak a differant language and have no idea how to > > spell something. to most ppl it is an insult to say they spelled something > > wrong and then don't offer to show them the correct spelling of the words > in > > question. > > > > my question is: why didn't you point out spelling mistakes to everyone on > > the list george? why just me? > > > > someone puts the time into sharing a story with you and the only thing you > > have to say is "you did this wrong and you don't make sence here and > > there..." it kinda irritates me. If I had written the story with the hopes > > of having it published, then yes, I would take the time to correct > spelling > > mistakes. but since I was just sharing a story, I didn't fix errors. you > > understood the story right? so what's your problem? > > > > the point is, if you don't like the way someone types or spells, build a > > bridge and get over it. > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 01:04:58 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Ranting Re: [MYSTARA] The battle of Wilmik. (the start of a campain) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dan, My long lost brother! :-) You are absolutely correct. Perhaps I did take things personally. I care a lot about writing, it is one of my professions and impacts on all of them! Everyone on this list responds with criticism without preamble. I had always assumed, perhaps in error, that this was how it was done. I have seen people struggle with points of game balance, nuance of strategy and tactics, and issues of mechanics in a manner identical to that which I used. I simply responded the way everyone else does, instead of arguing about game issues (since this was a work of fiction), I argued according to the rules of fiction writing (which seemed to be the only rules that applied). If someone made a statement about game mechanics that was poorly worded, or that I thought had not considered something that I had thought of, I would point that out in the same manner as I did above (or below, or whatever direction), as many on this list can attest. Similarly, I mean no insult or attack by such arguments, also as many on this list can attest. Now, if your suggestion is to give the guy a break and not chop him off at the knees, my response is something like, "Oh, well, I guess I can let it slip by this time for the sake of good morale and discipline." If your suggestion is to give it a pass for all time, my statement will be along the lines of, "My time for doing work is worth $60 each hour. I am not getting paid to read this list. If anyone makes it a chore for me to read something, I will not read it. There are only twenty four hours in a day, and I use a good twelve of them working as it is." Understand that I am not being belligerent, though perhaps the tone of my writing suggests that (most likely since I write in the active voice). Bottom line: If I have upset anyone, I apologize. That was not my intent. Please feel free to rip to shreds anything that I submit. You can't compare to some editors I have had! :-) George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Eustace" To: Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 12:19 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Ranting Re: [MYSTARA] The battle of Wilmik. (the start of a campain) > George, > Lighten up, brother! :-) I hope I'm not over extending my bounds, but as a > neutral observer, it seems that Mr. Manley is trying to reconcile with you > and not cause further animosity. Try to take what he says in good faith and > let it be water under the bridge. I do see your perspective as a > professional writer where mis-spellings and such are simply unacceptable. > This list is an informal forum, with subscribers from all different > countries, regions and backgrounds, with a wide variety of writing > abilities. It is very easy for e-mail correspondence to be taken the wrong > way, since facial expressions, tone, etc, can not be discerned. I have had > serious mis-understandings with my closest friends over e-mail > correspondence, which were quickly clarified by simple phone calls. With > strangers, greater care must be taken to make sure everyone understands each > other. > You said that originally you were trying to help, but that Bill responded as > if it were an attack. It certainly is not required for you to assist him > further, but it might be a nice thing to do. He seemed receptive to your > help, and appeared somewhat taken off guard by your comments. For example, > in no way did you preface your remarks with something such as, "This is the > first story on the MML that I have read in full. I am a professional > writer, and have several suggestions that would make future submissions to > the list more acceptable to the list as a whole." We all have free will, so > if you do decide to delete all posts from Bill Manley, no one can stop you. > However, as this was aired in a public forum, I will at least try to bring > some perspective to this issue, since it seems that you are both taking this > thing personally. The easy way out is to cut the other guy off. It takes > much more effort to reconcile, but perhaps it will be worth it the end. > > Sincerely, > Dan Eustace > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "George Hrabovsky" > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 12:39 AM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Ranting Re: [MYSTARA] The battle of Wilmik. (the > start of a campain) > > > > In the first place, I said there were only three things wrong with it; > > otherwise it was okay. Those were very close to my exact words. This was > the > > first story written on this list that I have taken the time to read all > the > > way through, that is why I have not pointed it out to other people. An > > occasional typo is acceptable, in my opinion. Running an average of two > > typos per sentence is not only sloppy, it shows an incredible disregard > for > > the prospective reader; it is like saying, "I don't care about you, I > don't > > respect you." In short, it is an insult. You expect people to read your > > work, then you have the responsibility to have some respect for your > > readers. > > > > By the way, you DID publish your story. You published it to this list. You > > forced everyone on this list to receive it. It took up bandwidth. It is > > occupying space on my computer as we speak. You, as the author of this > piece > > of fiction, have made no effort to convince me to do more than simply > delete > > anything that I receive in the future that has your name on it. When I > made > > a constructive suggestion, you came at me like I had taken a shot at you. > > Well, I will not make that mistake again! Write whatever you like. > Normally > > I like to help budding writers, since I am already published (and an > active > > columnist and member of the Horror Writers Association) my advice is > usually > > accepted with at least some measure of tolerance at least. I am not > > accustomed to being attacked and called stupid. I will forgo any further > > attempt to make helpful suggestions to you. In fact, I will simply delete > > anything with your name on it that comes across the list. That way there > > will be no chance that you will take anything I say in the wrong way! > > > > George > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bill Manley" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 9:24 PM > > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Ranting Re: [MYSTARA] The battle of Wilmik. (the > > start of a campain) > > > > > > > hey, I mispell stuff. alot of ppl do, and I'm sure most ppl realize when > > the > > > make a spelling error. sometimes ppl don't realize they made an error. > and > > > then there are ppl that speak a differant language and have no idea how > to > > > spell something. to most ppl it is an insult to say they spelled > something > > > wrong and then don't offer to show them the correct spelling of the > words > > in > > > question. > > > > > > my question is: why didn't you point out spelling mistakes to everyone > on > > > the list george? why just me? > > > > > > someone puts the time into sharing a story with you and the only thing > you > > > have to say is "you did this wrong and you don't make sence here and > > > there..." it kinda irritates me. If I had written the story with the > hopes > > > of having it published, then yes, I would take the time to correct > > spelling > > > mistakes. but since I was just sharing a story, I didn't fix errors. you > > > understood the story right? so what's your problem? > > > > > > the point is, if you don't like the way someone types or spells, build a > > > bridge and get over it. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 23:20:17 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "David S. Leland" Subject: Re: Ranting Re: [MYSTARA] The battle of Wilmik. (the start of a campain) In-Reply-To: <00ab01c0e411$14141010$e0511f42@D56DN901> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As Dan says, email can lead to all sorts of misunderstandings about= the tone of communication. This is a problem even in more personal forms= of correspondence. I spent 8 years working on literary magazines (high= school and college), with a year as editor-in-chief for each, and I majored= in creative writing for my B.A. I continue to write and grade papers as a= grad student and class instructor. As such, I have spent a lot of time= both as a literary critic and as a recipient of such criticism. My= experiences have taught me to try and be especially tactful as a critic,= and especially thick-skinned as a writer. IMHO, George's criticisms were= phrased in a way that could very easily be interpreted as condescending; in= fact, my first reaction was to read them that way, with the most positive= thing mentioned being that the story was "okay." On the other hand, I= think Bill should recognize that tone is difficult to convey over email,= and that one should perhaps give the benefit of the doubt when a critic has= gone through the effort of reading and commenting on your work. Since the= initial exchange, things seem to have escalated and I implore BOTH parties= to listen to Dan Eustace and... =20 >Lighten up, brother! :-) Magus Coeruleus dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 23:22:29 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "David S. Leland" Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:07 PM 5/23/01, Bill Manley wrote: >usually if I have a PC that doesn't want to cooperate (like a dwarf and a >boat thing), I either give them a very good reason why they should get on >the boat. say a large creature they couldn't possibly defeat or something >like that. > >but most of the time a good sleep spell or a nice crack on the back of the >head works well too. > >usually it depends on the situation. Reminds me of the recurring problem of getting Mr. T's character on the plane in episodes of The A-Team! Magus Coeruleus dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 23:40:39 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "David S. Leland" Subject: Re: OT: Of rants and... rants In-Reply-To: <08e201c0e3dc$7ba38c40$8b39abd0@tds.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:02 PM 5/23/01, George Hrabovsky wrote: >They are legal entities in the eyes of the law. They have the right to >defend themselves. Mocking their names is an attack on their reputation, >which in the eyes of the law is libel. Well, of course businesses have rights (more than human beings in many ways, but let's not get into that), but I think "T$R" and "Ha$bro" are a far cry from libel. There has to be evidence that one is attempting to maliciously damage an entity's reputation, and the scale and severity have to be such that the entity could suffer a nontrivial loss as a result of the alleged libel. The "$" may be bad tactics, perhaps, but libel? Let's not get hyperbolic! ;) Magus Coeruleus dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 01:44:50 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: OT: Of rants and... rants MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, we are not talking about the real world here, we are talking about the law! There are few things as hyperbolic (hyperbolec?) as arguing legal cases. I was not saying that this specific case warranted such action, but technically it is libel. It impunes their reputation in writing. They might not be able to take it to court successfully, but they could use it as an excuse for doing something creepy like shutting down the list. I think that cooler heads will prevail. Never underestimate the capacity in people to be stupid, and never count on it either! :-) George ----- Original Message ----- From: "David S. Leland" To: Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 1:40 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] OT: Of rants and... rants > At 04:02 PM 5/23/01, George Hrabovsky wrote: > >They are legal entities in the eyes of the law. They have the right to > >defend themselves. Mocking their names is an attack on their reputation, > >which in the eyes of the law is libel. > > Well, of course businesses have rights (more than human beings in many ways, but let's not get into that), but I think "T$R" and "Ha$bro" are a far cry from libel. There has to be evidence that one is attempting to maliciously damage an entity's reputation, and the scale and severity have to be such that the entity could suffer a nontrivial loss as a result of the alleged libel. The "$" may be bad tactics, perhaps, but libel? Let's not get hyperbolic! ;) > > Magus Coeruleus > > > dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu > cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 02:22:06 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: In Search of Varoka MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "In Search of Varoka" by George E. Hrabovsky [Note: This story is dedicated to my wife Heather, who lost her battle with breast cancer on 27 November 2000. She had a character in my game named Varoka, a Manusan Mystic. I offer this story in her honor to the list, a sort of peace offering. Heather, if you can read this, all my love...] He felt terrible pain as he awoke from a horrible dream. The pain was in his wrists, his ankles, his head, and his side. There was a rushing noise in his ears. He had the presence of mind not to move. Krasnov listened past the sound of blood in his head. There was a soft footfall nearby. Looking out from nearly closed eyelids he saw the rough outline of a goblin peering at him in a nearly dark room. His hands were chained to the wall behind him, he decided; his feet were shackled together in front of him. Then he remembered and he had to fight against the urge to start. They had been ambushed. How? How could anyone ambush them when they were in the presence of Prince Etienne D'Amberville? It made no sense. Where were they? He had no idea, only that they were not here. Silently Krasnov checked his cuffs to see if the bits of wire he kept there were in place. They were. He tried to pick the lock. It was painstaking work. Whenever he made the slightest sound he stopped and waited for the goblin to do something. The first couple of times the goblin had come over and poked him with the small spear the thing carried. That explained the pain in his side. Finally he managed to pick the locks. He made a sound and waited for the goblin to come over. As the creature made its thrust Krasnov grabbed the spear just behind the head and twisted it away from him. He used his momentum and threw both of his feet up in the air so that the chain wrapped itself around the goblins neck. It happened so fast the thing had no time to scream. There was only the sound of its neck breaking, like dried wood. He pulled out his proper picks and removed the shackles from his feet. His head pounded terribly and thought he was going to pass out again. He felt the blood matting down the hair on the back of his head and knew he had been badly hurt. "Varoka, I need your healing now," he whispered to himself. Krasnov had to find her. It was not only a matter of honor, she was both his employer and his friend. Besides, she was a Manusan Mystic, and she was a Dame of the Court of Karameikos. The Vistani assassin found that the spear was the only weapon the goblin had that was worth anything. He would find her. That was all there was to it. For the tenth time he took refuge from a wandering patrol. He marveled that no one had yet noticed his escape. Krasnov suppressed a gasp of disgust as the thing shambled down the corridor past his hiding place. It was black, wet-looking, and had horrible red veins covering its skin with a mass of tiny feelers that moved as wheat blown in the wind. He had seen one once before, but then he had not been alone; and it was not after him. Krasnov was grateful that Varoka had placed the spell of concealment upon him, for he was sure that the things would find him otherwise. He was in a large tower, of that he was sure. He knew that there was only one place with towers like this; Glantri. It explained how the Prince had been taken too. He feared for his friend though. She had been brought here to reveal the enemies of the Prince. It now seemed that one of the Prince's enemies had found them instead. He was heading down again when he rounded a corner and nearly ran into a man wearing a bright blue robe, with a green sash. The man reached for a wand in his sash. Krasnov struck him a sharp blow with his right palm just under the man's left eye. The mage slammed into the wall behind him, and started to fall down the stairs. Krasnov grabbed him, noticing a door ajar just to his right. He took the man inside. He breathed a sigh of relief; his guess had been right. It was the wizard's dormitory. The Vistani closed the door behind him and set the man d own on his bed. He quickly bound the man with wire and used his own sash as a gag. The man came out of his stupor. Krasnov found a curvy dagger on a small table and held it to his captive's neck. "I am going to give you a chance to live. Tell me what I want to know and I will let you be found like this in the morning." The man was sweating quite terribly. Krasnov wondered what it was about the dagger that made the man so fearful. He nodded slowly, never taking his eyes off the weapon. Krasnov noted with some satisfaction the his left eye was swelling shut. "Good, tell me where you have the Darine woman." The man seemed about to object when Krasnov touched the dagger to his throat. His eyes went wide and he went quite still. Slowly he nodded. With his free hand Krasnov pulled the gag down. "Well?" The man had a thick accent, but spoke in passable Thyatian, "At the top of the stairs." "What is there?" "A ritual chamber." Kransov's hopes sank, "Guarded?" "Of course, two Malfera." Krasnov almost closed his eyes in near despair. He struck the bound man on the side of the neck and put the gag back. He crossed the room, opened the door and went out, still holding the dagger. In the stairway, he picked up the man's wand. He remembered the lessons Varoka had taught him. He found a hiding place and began to meditate. He learned a bit about the wand, enough to be able to use it. Krasnov descended to the stairway and looked up at the place he had to go. Krasnov stood in the shadows just outside the door. Within he could hear a chanting, almost screaming, voice. He worked the lock silently. It took him a long time. He heard a shuffling noise behind him, and knew he had been discovered. He had no choice, if he stopped now there was no chance to save her. He felt the last pin drop into place and he turned the lock. It opened. He turned, nearly in time. He felt a hot pain throughout his left side. Krannov gasped as he went to one knee. He raised the wand and felt the surge of power as Varoka had taught him. There was a loud crash that he felt as much as heard. The thing had been propelled off the side of the staircase. He didn't wait to see what had happened to it. The Vistani turned swiftly and ran into the room, prepared for the worst. He was staggered by what he saw before him. The first sight that greeted his eyes were the dead-looking eyes of Prince Etienne D'Amberville, looking out from within a man-sized crystal. A cloaked figure, all in light blue with both a green and orange sash turned suddenly to face him. Krasnov ducked behind a table, and the man couldn't see him. So long as he lived Krasnov would remember that look. There was anger at the interruption. Then a dawning realization of terror. The figure turned as the black designs on the floor began to glow with a sickly green light. Krasnov saw Varoka, bound upon an altar. The realization hit him that she was to be sacrificed to some thing! The Vistani aimed as carefully as he ever had in his life and threw the dagger. The weapon embedded itself in the bonds the held her hands. His employer used the dagger to cut herself free. Krasnov moved forward to help her as the door was wrenched off its hinges. It was another Malfera, he turned and fired the wand into it. The horror stumbled backwards, recovered and moved forward again. Krasnov fired again and again as it moved forward. Krasnov heard a sound from behind him that made him want to faint. He dared not look, but it made the Malfera stop and trumpet out a sickening sound in its own right. He fired again, and the beast dropped. The Vistani turned and nearly went mad. He moved forward, avoiding gazing into the swirling darkness that was engulfing the blue-clad wizard. Varoka had pulled herself off the altar and was crawling towards him. Krasnov felt wind tear at him and he too fell. He held out his hand to grab Varoka. She was only four feet from him. Three feet. Two feet. Then the wizard gave a cry of hopeless desperation and managed to grab her feet. Krasnov lay there stunned as the wizard and his beloved Varoka were slowly being drawn into the darkness. "Runnnn!" She screamed at him. He felt the tears on his cheeks, he could not speak past the lump in his throat. He screamed as he started crawling forward. She saw what was doing, of course. He knew that she would never allow it. He had to try anyway. Krasnov actually leapt forward. But not before she allowed herself, and the frantic madman that held her, to descend into the darkness. Just before they disappeared, Krasnov saw a face in the darkness. He had heard the whispered tales of the scholars, it was the Dark Man himself. He knew she was lost. *** Scene 3: He makes his way to the top of the tower and there he discovers that a ritual has taken place. Etienne has been imprisoned, and Varoka vanishes, being carried away by a dark force. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 05:11:18 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Bill Manley Subject: Re: Ranting Re: [MYSTARA] The battle of Wilmik. (the start of a campain) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed George, I admit also that I may have gone over the edge in my responce. I am not an editor or an auther...heck I don't even know how to spell it..and I don't claim to be either. I'm not getting paid to do this either and therefor don't put everything I have into it. I do it for fun, the same reason I subscribe to this list. I figure some ppl might enjoy reading other ppl's campains cuz I enjoy reading theirs. as far as game mechanics go, I (and my players) are more into the role-playing aspect of the game. we don't throw the rules out completely, but we definatly change and eliminate rules we don't agree with. the story I wrote is a form of the game we played. I don't know how to explain it, but we played the game and then I wrote the story. some details get lost in the process, others get exaggerated. I guess my games are more like tourny's, only the players have more to say about the way the adventure goes. this makes my campains more difficult to write, and almost impossible to predict. to make things worse, I work 12 hours a day. I have several online commitments (www.playteq.com, www.simcountry.com, several forums, and 70-100 ppl on my ICQ list) on top of that I have an active social life. in the end I have maybe 1-2 hours a day to write my adventures, and maybe one day a week to play them. so how much time do you think I have to write stories? so if you think I'm going to spend even more time fixing errors....well I charge $60 an hour (LOL). _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 05:40:32 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Bill Manley Subject: Re: OT: Of rants and... rants Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I don't think there is anything TSR or Hasbro can say. I can call them any name I want, I can say anything I want about them. why? cuz it's my opinion. I have the right to have and voice my opinion in any gallery or forum I want as long as the owner of that forum allows it. even then the only leagle action the owner can take is to ban my post (in this case). if you don't believe me, look into the history of hustler mag. they have been sued many times for slander (by a preacher I think) and have never lost a case. late night talk show hosts are another example. any editorial segment, any news paper, any media source has the right to have and voice their opinion. the only thing that is not leagle is if I say something like TSR touched little babies in their naughty spot (witch is not true...I hope). that is pure slander cuz it has no basis in truth and it is only ment to damage the companies reputation. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:55:54 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Caroletti Subject: Re: Ranting Re: [MYSTARA] The battle of Wilmik. (thestart of acampain) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, this made me smile. A discussion and a possible flame ended well, with profit. This is a stupid message, I know, but I always like it when people get along on the list. I think I'm going in my room, close all the window and sit down to cry. 8-) Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 04:55:44 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Ranting Re: [MYSTARA] The battle of Wilmik. (the start of a campain) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I hear you. I have developed a new game system, so I generally try to avoid system mechanics arguments (though I can generally help out, since I ran a D&D-based Mystara campaign from 1985 to 1996). I tend to be more interested in geopolitical/military/technological issues directly related to Mystara. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Manley" To: Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 4:11 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Ranting Re: [MYSTARA] The battle of Wilmik. (the start of a campain) > George, > > I admit also that I may have gone over the edge in my responce. I am not an > editor or an auther...heck I don't even know how to spell it..and I don't > claim to be either. I'm not getting paid to do this either and therefor > don't put everything I have into it. I do it for fun, the same reason I > subscribe to this list. I figure some ppl might enjoy reading other ppl's > campains cuz I enjoy reading theirs. > > as far as game mechanics go, I (and my players) are more into the > role-playing aspect of the game. we don't throw the rules out completely, > but we definatly change and eliminate rules we don't agree with. the story I > wrote is a form of the game we played. I don't know how to explain it, but > we played the game and then I wrote the story. some details get lost in the > process, others get exaggerated. I guess my games are more like tourny's, > only the players have more to say about the way the adventure goes. this > makes my campains more difficult to write, and almost impossible to predict. > > to make things worse, I work 12 hours a day. I have several online > commitments (www.playteq.com, www.simcountry.com, several forums, and 70-100 > ppl on my ICQ list) on top of that I have an active social life. in the end > I have maybe 1-2 hours a day to write my adventures, and maybe one day a > week to play them. so how much time do you think I have to write stories? so > if you think I'm going to spend even more time fixing errors....well I > charge $60 an hour (LOL). > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 12:14:25 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Caroletti Subject: Re: Valley of Khyr? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greg Weatherup wrote: > Aloha, > > I was looking at the maps in the RC and noticed something that I don't know > anything about. What is the Valley of Khyr? (Altitude 3,000 ft) that is > show in the upper left hand corner of the map showing darokin and Alfheim. > Is it the border between Ogremoor & Orcus Rex? Is it refering to that > glacier on the border? Is that the southern part of Glantri (the part where > Soth-Kabree & Camp Huledain is located)? Anybody know? And is there > anything important/relevant there? One of my game's right now has a lot > going on in that region so I need to know if there's anything I should know, > know what I mean? So does anybody know? (sorry for all the know's....) > Wait for me, I'll check this in a couple of days!!!!! Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 13:23:27 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >usually if I have a PC that doesn't want to cooperate (like a dwarf and a >boat thing), I either give them a very good reason why they should get on >the boat. say a large creature they couldn't possibly defeat or something >like that. > >but most of the time a good sleep spell or a nice crack on the back of the >head works well too. > One of my player had to cast charm person or mammal on this dwarf to get it to go on a riverboat, and after the spell broke he sought revenge. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 13:30:47 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed With an airships PCs can just load the ship with sharp pointy rocks, huge barrels of flaming oil with a greek fire to ignite it and sacks of nails, fly so high above Duh Legion of Thar or some Broken Land Villages and rain death on everything. At some altitude even a penny can kill you if it falls on you. Beside, no one near the Broken Lands as flying ships, espacially not the Broken Lands. But, maybe I'll make them travel the hard way, the only problem with this is making random encounters for 5+ months of travel :) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 13:37:18 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Aegos-Mystical Conveyor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I know that because the HW is smaller, two points on the known word lead to farther points at the same place on the KW but has anyone ever found it strange that the shaft of Aegos is in the town of Haldamar in Alphatian Neatharum, while the other end is on the island of Aegos in the Alphatia sea. While Atruaghin mystical conveyor an one end on the Atruaghin Plateau and one end in Azcan lands which are pretty close to the shaft of Aegos. I don't even know if it's in the right direction because of the inverse of east-west thing. Also if you check on the HW map, the polar ice caps seems ( in my opinion ) near far from Beastmen waste which is not far from the conveyor, while on the KW they seem pretty far from Aegos. Another thing there are 3 quests for the HW. I know one of them is in Nithia the other Azca and another in Shajapur. Well I think in the first one the PCs enter via the broken lands and end up either in Nithia or Azcan, both of which wouldn't make sense considering the other reference points we have. I don't own this quest so I can't be sure tough. Anyone else has noticed stuff like this. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 15:47:36 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "G.P. Agosta" Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gilles Leblanc wrote: > With an airships PCs can just load the ship with sharp pointy rocks, huge > barrels of flaming oil with a greek fire to ignite it and sacks of nails, > fly so high above Duh Legion of Thar or some Broken Land Villages and rain > death on everything. At some altitude even a penny can kill you if it falls > on you. Beside, no one near the Broken Lands as flying ships, espacially > not > the Broken Lands. Well, the Broken Lands have no air force, but they have extensive underground regions, where they cannot be reached by PC-bombers. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 09:49:34 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" From: G.P. Agosta [mailto:agathokles@LIBERO.IT] >Well, the Broken Lands have no air force, but they have extensive >underground regions, where they cannot be reached by PC-bombers. IMC I had Thar survive a will check to overcome his sword and wanted to attack Glantri. In an effort to quell his ambition, Von Drachenfels lent him use of the Dragon Fly to attack the Dwarves instead. Now Thar is dependent on fuel from Glantri, and is confused on the usage of using the Dragon Fly to attack dwarves that hide underground. It was mainly a comical episode ;) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 07:52:23 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In my upcoming campaign, after the party reach Port Siers (Freeport) they = will be offered to enlist in the organization known as M.I.S.T. (Magical = Infiltration, Strategy and Tatics) squad. This squad through a group of = wizards will travel via portal to all parts of the realms. They will be = basically be a hit and run squad. So they will teleport right into the = adventure setting and right out again, and they will get training to boost = up their levels. This campaign so far has 8 adventures so far (5 from = Castle Caldwell and beyond, the haunted abbey Isle from one of the Dungeon = supplements, and taking on (eventually) the dreaded drow hit squad. The = party will be given large incedinary devices and be paid 3000 gp for each = adventure. Of course any gold in the adventure will go to the organization = known as MIST. When I start it (in about 3 months from now I'll let you = know how it goes. :) regards,=20 JK Wolf >>> bleakcabal@HOTMAIL.COM 05/23/01 05:32PM >>> There's lot of cool Mystara stuff than came from the net, some of it found on the Vaults, some at other sites, but anyway, with a setting as big and detailed as Mystara and whit all the new places created by fans there's a lot of place you could want to send your players. The problem is how to send them there ? Espacially if you don't want them = to stay there long. Travel can take a long time, espacially when a dwarf in your party won't get on a boat. One Mystara awnser seems to be the airship. Last time I gave the player an airship ( which was not in Mystara ) he found so many ways to abuse the power it gave him... well lets just say he's very creative and that's another story. Just wondering how anyone here handles this, or if they just stay in the = KW or SC. This would make another interesting question... has anyone here started a mystara campaign, let's say on Davania or somewhere else. I also wonder how much poeple use either official stuff describing far = away places or fan based stuff describing far away places. So far myself I have read a good deal of stuff but didnt use any. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 16:05:28 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Colin Wilson Subject: Re: Aegos-Mystical Conveyor In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > While Atruaghin mystical conveyor an one end on the Atruaghin Plateau and > one end in Azcan lands which are pretty close to the shaft of Aegos. I don't > even know if it's in the right direction because of the inverse of east-west > thing. Took me a while to work it out, but the direction is correct. The placing's pretty reasonable too. As you say, due to the HW being smaller the temple of Atruatzin and the mystic conveyor are closer together, but not that much closer. Remember that the maps of the hollow world are on an enourmous scale. Bigger that most of the maps we have of the surface, so Haldemar and the temple are still a long way apart. > Also if you check on the HW map, the polar ice caps seems ( in my opinion ) > near far from Beastmen waste which is not far from the conveyor, while on > the KW they seem pretty far from Aegos. The polar caps are closer in the hollow world because of the map scale and the way the maps are drawn (to account the whacking great holes in the planet). Add the factr that the HW is smaller and it makes sense that the poles appear closer together. Also, the Atruaghin plateux is a fair bit north of Aegos on the outer world, which would translate to beig considerably closer to the pole in the HW. > the other Azca and another in Shajapur. Well I think in the first one the > PCs enter via the broken lands and end up either in Nithia or Azcan, both of > which wouldn't make sense considering the other reference points we have. I > don't own this quest so I can't be sure tough. To some extant true. IIRC the route takes them from the Broken Lands to the Azcan empire. If it was a straight down route, you would expect them to land up somewhere north-east (HW directions) of the azcans. However, not having the module in question I don't know if the route is a stright line or not. If it's just a large amount of cave wandering, they could come out anywhere. Cheers. Col. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 08:22:24 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: After Alfheim... what happened? Comments: To: MYSTARA-L@.WIZARDS.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable After Alfheim was ravaged as was mentioned on the Mystara site, the = refugees flee West to Darokin and North through the Broken Lands. As the Emerald legion (now only about 5,000) gathers itself, 3000 act as = escort for the main body of elves who go North through the Broken Lands. = The remaining 1500 act as a delaying force to hold off the enmassing = Shadow Elves and continue to set fires to the now dead and dry forest. 500 = help lead more refugees to the lands of Darokin. In the Broken Lands: King Thar seeing 10,000 refugees headed for his realm rubs his hands = together in glee as he envisions the spoils.... General Iron Claw contacts the General of the Broken Lands legion, General = Bone Trader and arranges safe escort through the Broken Lands. As the Hordes descend to the long column of refugees, it is intercepted = by a large group of Skull Warriors wearing red capes (the Broken Lands = Legion) Thar is told by General Bone Trader that the huge column of = refugees is under the protection of his legion. Thar tells Bone Trader = that he is sworn his duty to Thar's rule. The general agrees, and replies = that these orders come from his Lord Night Bay himself. He will abide by = any other command of Thar but the refugees of Alfheim are under the = protection of the Broken Lands legion and the remnants of the Emerald = legion. Thar knows his forces would be slaughtered in such a battle. He = glares at Bone Trader and tells him he owes Thar a favor. Bone Trader = merely shrugs and says he is at Thar's will, just not in this one = instance. What this means: Little Kolbold known as Kol, speaks to many of the other = chiefs and points to Thar's backing down against the legion. He says this = shows Thar to be a weak leader. Of course Kol knows that by the time he = can accomplish a coup, the Alfheim refugees will be well out of his = territory and he won't have to back up his threats of what he would do = because the refugees will be long gone.=20 Thar decides to attack Glantri: Thar's hordes decide to attack the realm of Glantri, his forces do fairly = well up to the point of the capital city and surround it. It is a = standoff. Kol secretly approaches the Legion of Glantri and tells the Legion of = Thar's weak spots. Kol then goes to Glantri and offers that if he can = influence enough of the tribes to pull out he would like to become a = prince (of what is now New Kolland)=20 The legion of Glantri breaks the seige, and Kol gets his wish, he points = to Thar's weakness as a leader and gains the new crater and surrounding = area as New Kolland. Kol is the new king of the Ten Tribes. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 10:28:14 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: ramhog Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > >death on everything. At some altitude even a penny can kill you if it falls >on you. Beside, no one near the Broken Lands as flying ships, espacially not That is actually something of an urban myth. A penny doesn't weigh enough to gain the velocity to kill or even really damage someone. The wind would buffet it enough to cause it to lose any momentum sufficient to gain that needed velocity. For the same reason, you probably couldn't kill an ant by dropping it off a high building- it's just too light. VVH -- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 08:27:32 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Almanac 1011 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for you campaign notes. I look forward to incoporating some of it = into mine. cheers! JK Wolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:50:11 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: OT: Of rants and... rants In-Reply-To: <08e201c0e3dc$7ba38c40$8b39abd0@tds.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 23 May 2001, George Hrabovsky wrote: > They are legal entities in the eyes of the law. They have the right to > defend themselves. Mocking their names is an attack on their reputation, > which in the eyes of the law is libel. Not quite. For a libel case to be taken seriously, the plaintiff has to show beyond a reasonable doubt that their business was harmed. In this case, I severely doubt that one person on this list stopped buying Hasbro or TSR products because of it. This argumment of course, does not preculde the List Manager from banning certain phrases out of respect for the companies involved. That is not a first amendment issue as this is not a governmentally owned list. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:54:24 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 24 May 2001, ramhog wrote: > That is actually something of an urban myth. A penny doesn't weigh > enough to gain the velocity to kill or even really damage someone. > The wind would buffet it enough to cause it to lose any momentum > sufficient to gain that needed velocity. Bzzt! In a perfectly classical world, where such effects like "wind" don't exist, and the penny is a point mass, that object will reach a quite high speed. Now I've never actually dropped a coin from the top of the Empire State, but I'll be willing to guess it doesn't land like a feather. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:42:20 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Huh? The careful observer will note that the acceleration due to gravity is 9.8 meters per second squared and has nothing to do with mass. The drag coefficient for something like a penny is a product of two ratios; the first is the ration of the difference between the density of the object and the density of the atmosphere to the density of the object. So, if the the object is much denser than air (say, like a precious metal) the ratio could be near one. The second ratio is the length in the direction of the fall to volume squared. With a coin falling with the flat side down this could be on order 2 cm/6.25 cm cubed, or around 0.7 cm squared, so the total drag coefficient would be something 0.32. The formula for terminal velocity in air is the ratio of weight to the drag coefficient; or in this case something like 10/0.32 or 31 meters per second. This translates to 111 km/hour, or about 77 miles per hour. This gives it a kinetic energy of (assuming a mass of 50 grams) about 24 Joules (a Joule being 1 kg meter squared per second squared), this would be enough to punch through a helm (or a skull). If it fell edge on (and frictional forces would tend to force this, if the coin fell far enough), the friction coefficient would be more like 0.03. This would make the terminal velocity 333 meters per second, or 1200 kilometers per hour (828 miles per hour). This gives an energy of 2772 Joules (enough to duplicate the effects of a large caliber handgun). How long would it take to reach terminal velocity in the latter case? The formula for the velocity of a fall is: -terminal velocity x (1 - Exp[-(drag coefficient x time)/mass]) It can be seen that after one second the velocity is 150 meters per second (at which time it has fallen 83 meters, or 274 feet). After two seconds it is 233 meters per second (it has now fallen 278 meters, or 917 feet). After three seconds 278 meters per second (it has now fallen 536 meters, or about 1800 feet). In fact it takes around 11 seconds to reach terminal speed. How far does the coin fall in that time? 3100 meters (or around 10,000 feet). I used Keith Symon's book Mechanics (3rd edition) as a source for the formulas I used (section2.6 discusses falling bodies). George P.S. At least I didn't inflict the power series expansions on you... ----- Original Message ----- From: "ramhog" To: Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] A simple question from a simple mind > > > >death on everything. At some altitude even a penny can kill you if it falls > >on you. Beside, no one near the Broken Lands as flying ships, espacially not > > That is actually something of an urban myth. A penny doesn't weigh > enough to gain the velocity to kill or even really damage someone. > The wind would buffet it enough to cause it to lose any momentum > sufficient to gain that needed velocity. > > For the same reason, you probably couldn't kill an ant by dropping it > off a high building- it's just too light. > > > VVH > -- > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 12:56:16 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind In-Reply-To: <09a601c0e470$804eeca0$8b39abd0@tds.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 24 May 2001, George Hrabovsky wrote: > P.S. At least I didn't inflict the power series expansions on you... Whee! Power series!! Ethan - Studying for Qulaifiers. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 09:50:53 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Eric Anondson Subject: OT: Of rants and... rights > I don't think there is anything TSR or Hasbro can say. I can call them > any name I want, I can say anything I want about them. why? cuz it's > my opinion. I have the right to have and voice my opinion in any > gallery or forum I want as long as the owner of that forum allows it. > even then the only leagle action the owner can take is to ban my post > (in this case). Thank you for walking right into my original point. You do not have any right whatsoever of having your opinions distributed by someone else, ANYone else. Yes, you can go make your own list and say all sorts of stuff that the hosts of this list might find offensive. The host of this list have utterly no obligation to let you say any opinion that pops into your head. This also falls under the First Amendment, in this case the First Amendment applies to the host of the list. > if you don't believe me, look into the history of hustler mag. they have > been sued many times for slander (by a preacher I think) and have > never lost a case. Not similar. What would be similar would be Hustler inserting leaflets in the preachers church bulletins peddling his thoughts. Or REQUIRING Hustler to publish anything the preacher wanted to say within Hustlers own pages. What Hustler says about anything in Hustlers own publications is Hustlers own business. > late night talk show hosts are another example. any editorial > segment, any news paper, any media source has the right to have > and voice their opinion. If this was -your- own mailing list, and not someone elses, your point would apply. What a talk show host says during his own show is not the same as a you saying what you wish and having it "broadcast" on someone elses mailing list. > the only thing that is not leagle is if I say something like TSR touched > little babies in their naughty spot (witch is not true...I hope). that is > pure slander cuz it has no basis in truth and it is only ment to > damage the companies reputation. My rant at Joachim sparked David Lealand to rant back at me because it appeared I was slamming someone for exercising their consumer rights. I guess I hit a hot button. ;-) But what sparked my rant at Joachim was his hiding behind the badge of "freedom to express". That hits a personal hot button of my own, which is people's gross misunderstanding of Constitutional rights. Put it this way, the freedom to flail your fist about in the air ends at my nose. Eric Anondson ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 12:18:08 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: ramhog Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Forgetting any classical world theories or long-winded scientific "proof"- Do you know how many pennies get thrown off the Empire State Building? Probably a lot. And how often do we hear about people dropping dead on the street with pennies lodged in their brains? Or little impact craters in the street? Headless pigeons falling from the sky? Mysteriously exploding cars? Bike messengers with their lungs blown out? Do I need to go on? Have I made my point? VVH -- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 10:21:05 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joaquin Menchaca Subject: Re: OT: Of rants and... rants In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- SteelAngel wrote: > On Wed, 23 May 2001, George Hrabovsky wrote: > > > They are legal entities in the eyes of the law. > They have the right to > > defend themselves. Mocking their names is an > attack on their reputation, > > which in the eyes of the law is libel. > > Not quite. > > For a libel case to be taken seriously, the > plaintiff has to show beyond a > reasonable doubt that their business was harmed. In > this case, I severely > doubt that one person on this list stopped buying > Hasbro or TSR products > because of it. Additionally, if I may add for further clarification, it must be proven that the remarks are not applicable. For example, when Apple Computer named their prototype computer to Butthead-Astronomer, Carl Segan sued for libel. The court ruled that "butthead" cannot defame the reputation of a scientist, and thus the term "butthead" was not applicable. If the term is applicable, there needs to be proof to show whether or not the term is true. For example, if someone was called a "liar" due to some issue, and the issue was found and proven to be true, then the person called "liar" can sue for being called "liar", and matter in question was indeed true. If the matter was found false, or a "lie", then the applicable name is indeed true, and the case would be dropped. In this case, "Ha$bro" would have to be determined if this is applicable, which is hard to discern, because the "$" could be interpreted different ways. Perhaps it could mean that Hasbro uses good judgment to return a profit. (Though, obviously we know what is meant, but this point was made that it is hard to prove libel because of vagueness). Lastly, it would have to be proven that it was indeed not true. If the name claimed that Hasbro is greedy and makes decisions for economical purposes against the better interest than their customers, then I think there is substantial evidence that this can be proven to be indeed true, with countless witnesses. As for "T$R" I doubt there could even be a case, as this entity no longer exists. [snip] On another point, I am not sure that WotC would be insulted, as "Ha$bro" refers to Hasbro, the parent company. I hear many stories that many at WotC are not satisfied with Hasbro's meddlings, and also that the CEO of WotC has left, as he could control the business decisions of WotC unit. I have not researched this further. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 13:48:38 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Scientists & Lawyers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" ;) some of you people have allot of time on your hands... Terminal velocity & Liable? I like the terminal velocity theory, but IMC it would be hard to imagine if it is the same force if you consider the world is hollow and has two moons. Yet it would be great knowledge for a technomancer of some type, "I cast the spell Change Velocity, now I drop three coins."...game play turns to mathematical discussion on the new velocity of 9.8 meters per second squared +1 meter per every 3 levels of caster above 6th level... ;) At least I now know where to turn if I need advice for a divorce. :0 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 13:53:13 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: OT: Of rants and... rights In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 24 May 2001, Eric Anondson wrote: > head. This also falls under the First Amendment, in this case the First > Amendment applies to the host of the list. This is the most common misconception about the first amendment. The First Amendment says NOTHING about non-governmental organizations. The Government cannot pass a law that restricts your viewpoint. However.. A private organization (and strangely enough, the states can too if you want to be a strict constructionist) can restrict your speech. That's why geocities can ban porn sites without a legal problem. If the admin says no 'T$R' then _Don't use it_. Period, end of conversation. The end, over, done with, stop this thread now. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 13:54:15 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 24 May 2001, ramhog wrote: > little impact craters in the street? Headless pigeons falling from > the sky? Mysteriously exploding cars? Bike messengers with their > lungs blown out? We Illuminati keep that secret to perpetuate the myth.. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 12:50:55 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Scientists & Lawyers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I may be a scientist (physicist) but I am NOT a lawyer! :-) George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Cherrington" To: Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 12:48 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] Scientists & Lawyers > ;) some of you people have allot of time on your hands... > Terminal velocity & Liable? I like the terminal velocity theory, but IMC it > would be hard to imagine if it is the same force if you consider the world > is hollow and has two moons. Yet it would be great knowledge for a > technomancer of some type, "I cast the spell Change Velocity, now I drop > three coins."...game play turns to mathematical discussion on the new > velocity of 9.8 meters per second squared +1 meter per every 3 levels of > caster above 6th level... ;) > At least I now know where to turn if I need advice for a divorce. :0 > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 13:55:54 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Scientists & Lawyers In-Reply-To: <71E277A7F4FCD2118A700008C79F725592E5AC@JOSHUA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 24 May 2001, Christopher Cherrington wrote: > technomancer of some type, "I cast the spell Change Velocity, now I drop > three coins."...game play turns to mathematical discussion on the new Hey. that sounds like my campaigns :) hehehe Ethan - Technomancer ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 12:56:36 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You know, I just spent a reasonable amount of time trying to find out how many, if any, coins are thrown from the Empire State Building. I have been unsuccessful. Are there any? George ----- Original Message ----- From: "ramhog" To: Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] A simple question from a simple mind > Forgetting any classical world theories or long-winded scientific > "proof"- Do you know how many pennies get thrown off the Empire State > Building? Probably a lot. And how often do we hear about people > dropping dead on the street with pennies lodged in their brains? Or > little impact craters in the street? Headless pigeons falling from > the sky? Mysteriously exploding cars? Bike messengers with their > lungs blown out? > > Do I need to go on? Have I made my point? > > > VVH > -- > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 19:57:09 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: Scientists & Lawyers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Big controversy it was in my early games. The golden player question: "what happens if my PC, after quaffing a Storm Giant Strenght potion", throws a platinum piece at the bad guy?". My DM reaction: as he was not used to handle such a big strength, he crushes the coin while trying to get a firm tossing grip". (just reminiscing) Andr�s ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 14:02:16 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Scientists & Lawyers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" New Mage Kit: Physiomancer Main talents: As long as the player can befuddle the DM for more than 20 minutes of mathematical equations, the spell does as exactly as player commanded. Recommended Races: Gnomes, Kender, 900 year old elves, Grumpy Dwarves that lost their hammer in battle. Special Hindrance: If the DM can solve the mathematical equation in 5 or less minutes, the character has created a paradox and all subsequent successful spells never happened. (DM will have to explain all previous results to the new game play) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 14:13:29 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Scientists & Lawyers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" http://www.urbanlegends.com/science/penny_falling_impact.html hehe, now I can DM the Physiomancer! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 14:16:05 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind >We Illuminati keep that secret to perpetuate the myth.. > >Ethan Along with the Orbital Mind-Control Lasers, too? Getting this to Mystara, has anyone out there concocted an "Illuminated" Mystara campaign? That is, a campaign in which there are shadowy conspiracies (preferably by mortals) to control the entire world, and to drive events in the way they wished. For example (not IMC, but as an example): The Great Merger of Darokin was actually driven by the shadowelves, who wished to set up a unified republic to act as a potential counterweight to their enemy - Alfheim. This would overcome the disunity of previous years, and by building it up as a centre of trade, the shadowelves would control enough money to finance the Kin faction in Ylaruam, who would destabilise that part of the continent. The Kin faction, however, do not know they are indirectly controlled by the shadowelves, and are in the process of subverting Ierendi, thinking that it was their idea all along. They also finance several jarls in Soderfjord, whose own raiding keeps that nation from posing a serious threat to their interests. Just some random thoughts... Geoff, who is currently reading GURPS Illuminati... -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:24:12 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Greg Weatherup Subject: Re: Alfheim Clans Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you Jacob, that was exactly the info I need to set up the Canolbarth in the game. Now I just got to decide if I want to bother including the Taureshey (I saw them referencede somewhere that their an offshoot of Sheyallia in ALfheim.) Greg _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 14:29:56 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind In-Reply-To: <200105241816.OAA01712@freenet10.carleton.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 24 May 2001, Geoff Gander wrote: > Geoff, who is currently reading GURPS Illuminati... Great supplement.. I personally love the Illuminati University supplement illustrated by the Foglios. THAT's hilarious. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:53:15 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have put the drow in my campaign and they run a Mafia-like organization = throughout the KW and Red Steel areas. >>> au998@FREENET.CARLETON.CA 05/24/01 11:16AM >>> >We Illuminati keep that secret to perpetuate the myth.. > >Ethan Along with the Orbital Mind-Control Lasers, too? Getting this to Mystara, has anyone out there concocted an "Illuminated" Mystara campaign? That is, a campaign in which there are shadowy conspiracies (preferably by mortals) to control the entire world, and to drive events in the way they wished. For example (not IMC, but as an example): The Great Merger of Darokin was actually driven by the shadowelves, who wished to set up a unified republic to act as a potential counterweight to their enemy - Alfheim. This would overcome the disunity of previous years, and by building it up as a centre of trade, the shadowelves would control enough money to finance the Kin faction in Ylaruam, who would destabilise that part of the continent. The Kin faction, however, do not know they are indirectly controlled by the shadowelves, and are in the process of subverting Ierendi, thinking that it was their idea all along. They also finance several jarls in Soderfjord, whose own raiding keeps that nation from posing a serious threat to their interests. Just some random thoughts... Geoff, who is currently reading GURPS Illuminati... -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 19:26:41 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: web sites Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Well as far as I'm concerned, anyone can take stuff from my site and repost it. Angelo http://members.fortunecity.com/abertoll/dnd/ > >except those that people choose to keep on their own sites > >shawn stanley >http://dnd.starflung.com > >what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for >me > - mightyfew, "i can't wait" > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 14:32:40 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have (I hope none of my players are reading this) begun to coopt the Black Lotus Society from the Arduin Grimoire series into my Mystara ... George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Gander" To: Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 1:16 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] A simple question from a simple mind > >We Illuminati keep that secret to perpetuate the myth.. > > > >Ethan > > Along with the Orbital Mind-Control Lasers, too? > > Getting this to Mystara, has anyone out there concocted an "Illuminated" > Mystara campaign? That is, a campaign in which there are shadowy > conspiracies (preferably by mortals) to control the entire world, and to > drive events in the way they wished. > > For example (not IMC, but as an example): > > The Great Merger of Darokin was actually driven by the shadowelves, who > wished to set up a unified republic to act as a potential counterweight to > their enemy - Alfheim. This would overcome the disunity of previous > years, and by building it up as a centre of trade, the shadowelves would > control enough money to finance the Kin faction in Ylaruam, who would > destabilise that part of the continent. > > The Kin faction, however, do not know they are indirectly controlled by > the shadowelves, and are in the process of subverting Ierendi, thinking > that it was their idea all along. They also finance several jarls in > Soderfjord, whose own raiding keeps that nation from posing a serious > threat to their interests. > > Just some random thoughts... > > Geoff, who is currently reading GURPS Illuminati... > > -- > Geoff Gander, BA 97 > Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon > Carnifex Loremaster > au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 12:40:30 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One might want to re-read George's response where he points out that a penny, falling edgewise, would have to fall 3100 metres (roughly 10,000 feet) to actually reach terminal velocity. According to the web page for the Empire State Building (http://www.esbnyc.com) the total height to the 86th floor observatory is 1050 feet (320 metres). In fact, without doing the math and only looking at the results George posted, the coin would hit ground in about 2.5 seconds, and would be travelling at a velocity of 250 m/s = 0.25 km/s, which is far and away lower than any velocity needed to turn a coin into a deadly weapon or crater generating object. Ob Mystara: On the other hand, think of the /headache/ it would cause -- what a great way to kill a mage's concentration eh? ;-) Jenni A. M. Merrifield =-> strawberryJAMM <=- ----- Original Message ----- From: "ramhog" To: Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 11:18 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] A simple question from a simple mind > Forgetting any classical world theories or long-winded scientific > "proof"- Do you know how many pennies get thrown off the Empire State > Building? Probably a lot. And how often do we hear about people > dropping dead on the street with pennies lodged in their brains? Or > little impact craters in the street? Headless pigeons falling from > the sky? Mysteriously exploding cars? Bike messengers with their > lungs blown out? > > Do I need to go on? Have I made my point? > > > VVH > -- > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 15:51:31 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 24 May 2001, Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: > m/s = 0.25 km/s, which is far and away lower than any velocity needed to And for our friends wo still haven't converted to metric: .25 Km/s = .15535 mile/s = 9.321 miles per hour Not unappreciable speed, though not in any way immediately deadly. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 15:57:17 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" From: SteelAngel [mailto:edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU] >Not unappreciable speed, though not in any way immediately deadly. But a metal ball point pen dropped from 412 feet drops down like an arrow and then disintegrates! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 20:15:20 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: web sites Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Well Shawn, I think there's your cue to copy all material from his site to yours :) > >Well as far as I'm concerned, anyone can take stuff from my site and repost >it. > >Angelo >http://members.fortunecity.com/abertoll/dnd/ > >> >>except those that people choose to keep on their own sites >> >>shawn stanley >>http://dnd.starflung.com >> >>what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done >>for >>me >> - mightyfew, "i can't wait" >> >>******************************************************************** >>The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >>The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >>To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >>with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. >> > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 07:30:17 +1000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: web sites Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm reminded of that taunt in Age of Empires Raiding Party nah honestly, that's cool thanks Angelo. I've seen some Mystaran web sites out there dissappear, and at one time or another I made personal downloads of some sites - just in case, but there's always the possibility that some site out there that's interesting or has good stuff on it will disappear. At 19:26 24/05/01 -0000, you wrote: >Well as far as I'm concerned, anyone can take stuff from my site and repost >it. > >Angelo >http://members.fortunecity.com/abertoll/dnd/ > >> >>except those that people choose to keep on their own sites >> >>shawn stanley shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 16:45:28 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: ramhog Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >On Thu, 24 May 2001, ramhog wrote: > >> little impact craters in the street? Headless pigeons falling from >> the sky? Mysteriously exploding cars? Bike messengers with their >> lungs blown out? > >We Illuminati keep that secret to perpetuate the myth.. > LOL I realized that looked a bit like a Call of Cthulhu sanity loss list after I'd sent it :) VVH -- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 16:48:07 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: ramhog Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind In-Reply-To: <09d601c0e47a$e059d2e0$8b39abd0@tds.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >You know, I just spent a reasonable amount of time trying to find out how >many, if any, coins are thrown from the Empire State Building. I have been >unsuccessful. Are there any? > Uh, sure George- nobody *ever* threw a penny off the Empire State Building. VVH -- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 16:59:59 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: ramhog Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind In-Reply-To: <200105241816.OAA01712@freenet10.carleton.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Getting this to Mystara, has anyone out there concocted an "Illuminated" >Mystara campaign? Well, you li'l stinkers forced my hand once again! So without further ado, I present my unfinished, unedited masterpiece: Brought To Light: The Darokinian Illuminati From an uncompleted manuscript by Author Unknown (As translated by Pliny the Larger, 989 AC) INTRODUCTION by Pliny the Larger What follows is a translation of a manuscript that was discovered in the cornerstone of a building in Darokin City, Darokin. A worker wrenched the upper block loose and there was a great inpassing of air into the cornerstone beneath (this as related to me). What was found inside was a metal stongbox, emblazoned with a symbol of the Sun and below that the words "Breathe Together"- a phrase whose meaning is still not understood to me. Beside the box was a great toad that, I'm told, uttered a blasphemy just before it exploded, killing the worker who released it from it's long imprisonment. I shall not now, nor ever, repeat the uttered blasphemy. The building, the Grey House by name, was demolished to make way for a public house, which some unknown wag of, no doubt, low upbringing and bad taste monikered the "Exploading Toad". The only remaining evidence of the existence of the so-called "Grey House" is this manuscript of which I translate for you, the reader. All identifying markings of the house have vanished and no one spoken to concerning the establishment seems to have ever known what took place behind it's once-gilded doors. The list of conjectures by locals on the subject is far too long too be made mention of here. Know this, dear reader, that this translation (from an obscure Glantiran tounge known to some as "Scots Gaelic") has brought about a number of threats upon my life both veiled and overt. With the publication and distribution of this document I fear my life is all but forfeit. I feel that I can no longer act against the forces that are now conspiring against me. Pray for me, dear reader, as I pray for all those before me who have lain eyes upon this infernal text. As I pray for YOU! - (signed) Pliny the Larger of Blackpoint, Duchy of Machetos, Empire of Thyatis. 1. The Illuminati's Mithraic Roots Hule To understand the Illuminati one must understand the Path of Lies- the code by which every Hulean lives... The concept of folding the truth back upon itself- this notion was not introduced to the men of old Darokin by the Huleans, but by the same Sindhi priests who introduced Mithraism to them. It would be some years before they would encounter the inhabitants of Hule... Sind The Mithraic tradition began in Sind more than a thousand years ago... The structure, ceremonies and trappings of the Illuminati are borrowed from those of the ancient Sindhi priests of Mitra (as Mithras was known to them). The cult of Mitra, as practiced in Sind, bears little, if no, resemblance to Mithraism as practiced in Thyatis. The connection to the Sindhi Mitra cult has long since been lost to the clerics of Mithras- but not to the Illuminati who have exploited those few remaining similarities in the past and still do on occasion today... Thyatis Mithraism in Thyatis today is a mystery religion, practised in seclusion in caves and hidden temples and bears little resemblance to its roots in Sind... The Platinum Code The code of the Illuminati that can unlock untold riches and undreamed of power for those that learn its secret. A magical platinum disk that, when turned produces a light of words that reflect a sunbeam of knowledge into a cone of dreams... The code is a mathematical equation written in an ancient and obscure tounge (archaic whatever) and is secretly the basis for all money matters in Darokin. Those who mastered the Code use its complex mathematical equations to predict certain future events... 2. The Illuminated Republic of Darokin Lake Amsorak and Itheldown Island The Twisted Tower- Citadel of the Illuminati This is where their (annual/bi-annual/quarterly?) summit takes place. Rumors among the Illuminati point to "Old man Ithel" himself (thought to be long-dead) as the secret leader of the Illuminati... The Darokin Diplomatic Corps The DDC is essentially just another name for the Illuminati... The Illuminated Houses Al-Azrad What dark secrets does this house of evil hold? The Necronomicon- the Nithian "Book of Dead Names", translated into the ancient Milenian tounge by hands unknown and into Ylari by one Abd Al-Azrad... Pennydown "He who has the rules makes the gold..." The Illuminatus Council Over the main doors of the "Grey House" is an inscription that reads "Breathe Together". Those doors are gold-plated and feature a bas-relief of the symbol of the illuminati- the all-seeing eye in the sun, an image borrowed from the early Mithraics. The Malpheggi Swamp The Treasure of the Irumnith Farphan Rock The treasure of the ancient kings of Sind are buried here, thousands of feet beneath the waves... "Oid" Of this horrible... thing, I dare speak no more, save that I write even this much at the risk of my own life. The Illunimati Abroad Glantri Ylaruam Karameikos Rockhome The Broken Lands The Empire 3. LIES (wherein the truth is told) The Hollow World Ridiculous... The-Temple-In-The-Mountain The product of an overzealous imagination... The Two Moons A whimsical fantasy... Blackmoor Conveniently, no proof of this place exists "Shadow" Elves Paranoid delusions of isolationist elves... The Flying City Tiny men called "gnomes" are said to fly upon large birds, dead or undead... 4. TRUTH (wherein lies are spread and dissention harvested) The Atruaghin Plateau The mysterious red-skinned men of the plateau- clearly the result of poisoning from the "red steel" of which the plateau is composed... Deep beneath the plateau lies yet another "clan"- pale of skin and possesing of power similar to, yet quite unlike that which we understand as "magic". They literally combine human flesh with the type of objects one would find in the days of Blackmoor- devices of metal fused to skin and bone. Ambulatory bodies with no head to speak of. Horrors untold... The REAL Alphatians On the island continent of Belissaria, there exists the Great Tree of Magic from which all Alphatian wizards grow... The Five Shires Clearly under the aegis of an unseen force, great and terrifying invisible powers roam the woods of the shires. The body of the great Albantadu lies buried beneath the shires, projecting oale upwards upon all who would penetrate its borders You Came From Space Before Mystara was populated by man, there were two vast stones suspended in the ether, bigger than the biggest thing in all the world. These two great stones- Telemenn and Wukh, by name- ground together slowly for thousands upon thousands of years until a water of air was formed. The water, which was bigger than the biggest thing in all the world, slowly gathered itself into what the Sages of Lost Ythmathus called the Great Droppe and the Great Droppe fell through the ether into the great mouth at the top of the world and what sprang forth from the orifice on the other side of the world was the form of MAN! 5. Machinations of the Illuminati The Storm Soldiers of Hattias- Well armed puppet army that can be easily swayed to eliminate any number of troublesome factions and individuals. Good for "vanishing" any pesky Illuminati pretenders in the Empire. The Gnome Caravan- Illuminati codeword for their gnomish spy network. Has ties to Serraine. While a "real" caravan exists in The Duchy of Karameikos, the spy network has tendrils throughout the Known World. Supplying arms and money to the Black Eagle Barony- Also good for controlling passage through the Gulf of Halag Something in the Five Shires Supplying arms to both Sind AND Hule Keeping Glantri occupied with the Ethengari Khanates. They have proven to be useful whenever nosey Glantrians got a little too close for comfort. Keeping Ylaruam occupied with the Vikings. It wastes the resources of the Northern Reaches and provides a diversion for inquisitive Ylari. The Heldannic Knights- drawing their attention to the Freeholds proved to be a simplicity in itself. Immortal-driven militant cults are very hard to control Fouling any attempted expeditions to the Hollow World. The Cult of Halav "The King in Yellow"- A hoax that perhaps succeeded a little *too* well. This one surprisingly backfired when a *real* King in Yellow play was performed in Darokin City to disastrous effect. Supplying smoke-powder weapons to the Clan of the Viper (NOT the Tiger Clan). And there you have it in all it's unvarnished glory. You'll notice references to things specific to my campaign (i.e. Mithraism) and are free to ignore them. Any comments/suggestions? And, no, I don't need any snotty comments about my spelling, thank you. VVH -- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 15:19:15 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: crossovers Comments: To: MYSTARA-L@.WIZARDS.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IMC I have used major characters from other RPGs, such as Strahd von = Zarovich, Lord Soth, Kitiara, and Verminaard. I've always gone by the = motto, if it looks good, use it! regards, JK Wolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 18:29:52 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: OT: Of rants and... rights MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ethan, I like you more and more all the time. That particular misconception is one of my pet peeves. You could go further and mention that the Bill of Rights is specifically aimed toward Federal government...unfortunately, most people wouldn't get the significance. ----- Original Message ----- From: "SteelAngel" To: Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 1:53 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] OT: Of rants and... rights > On Thu, 24 May 2001, Eric Anondson wrote: > > > head. This also falls under the First Amendment, in this case the First > > Amendment applies to the host of the list. > > > This is the most common misconception about the first amendment. > The First Amendment says NOTHING about non-governmental organizations. The > Government cannot pass a law that restricts your viewpoint. > > However.. > > A private organization (and strangely enough, the states can too if you > want to be a strict constructionist) can restrict your speech. That's why > geocities can ban porn sites without a legal problem. > > If the admin says no 'T$R' then _Don't use it_. Period, end of > conversation. The end, over, done with, stop this thread now. > > Ethan > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 19:59:04 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Bill Manley Subject: Re: OT: Of rants and... rights Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > late night talk show hosts are another example. any editorial > > segment, any news paper, any media source has the right to have > > and voice their opinion. > >If this was -your- own mailing list, and not someone elses, your point >would apply. What a talk show host says during his own show is not >the same as a you saying what you wish and having it "broadcast" on >someone elses mailing list. your confusing the issue. I cannot be sued for voicing my opinion on anyones mailing list. the only thing that can happen to me is getting banned from that mailing list and all my messegas being removed. it's kinda like saying I own my TV, therefor if I see any offending broadcasts I have a leagle right to sue the person that broadcast the offending program. I don't have the right to spead lies about a company, but I do have the right to bash a company for cancelling my favorite product. bashing TSR and HASBRO on this list is ok according to the rules set by the owner of the list, because it is "on topic of mystara". therefor I can say what i feel about them, as long as it's not a lie. but about the T$R and HA$BRO issue, I think it was origionaly posted this way to avoid copyright infringment. I don't know why the origionnal author posted it this way cuz he wasn't using the names to make a profit. I don't know, but that's what I gathered from it....maybe he was trying to make a funny? but anyone who gathered that it was ment to show the companies greed is just reading into it to much (IMHO). _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 20:25:51 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One thing very often overlooked in Mystaran military history and the current geo-political state of affairs, is the impact of flying. IMO, most nations would have some type of method to counteract a flying enemy, or else they would have been conquered long ago. Otherwise, a level 5 MU with a fly spell and an artillery wand can fly above bow range and easily rout an enemy army or destroy a village. Since a single flying enemy of even relatively low level can have such an effect, to me it is logical that many of the commanders and "heroes" (to use the Battlesystem/ War Machine term) would have some means of flying, whether it be a potion, broom, carpet, etc. Yes, even when hobgoblin armies attack my PCs dominions a few beefed up leaders will have fly potions. Otherwise it is no challenge for the PCs. If we can all figure this out by playing out a few game years, what types of tactics would military scholars have developed over all of Mystaran history? It's not like fly magic was just invented yesterday. So, my solution to this is to have a flying PC be engaged by a flying NPC. At least enough to keep them on their toes. If places like Ethengar do not have access to this stuff (a few potions or a hakoman or two w. spells) then they wold be no threat at all to neighboring Glantri who could subjugate all of Ethengar quite easily if they decided to do so. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gilles Leblanc" To: Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 9:30 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] A simple question from a simple mind > With an airships PCs can just load the ship with sharp pointy rocks, huge > barrels of flaming oil with a greek fire to ignite it and sacks of nails, > fly so high above Duh Legion of Thar or some Broken Land Villages and rain > death on everything. At some altitude even a penny can kill you if it falls > on you. Beside, no one near the Broken Lands as flying ships, espacially not > the Broken Lands. > > But, maybe I'll make them travel the hard way, the only problem with this is > making random encounters for 5+ months of travel :) > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 20:33:52 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: Aegos-Mystical Conveyor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The way the HW lines up w. the SW checks out OK. I don't think it actually says anywhere in the HW set, but the map scale is 40 miles/hex (2 marches/hex). It covers a lot of area. In the Nightrage module series, I don't think the trip down from the B-lands is straight down. Isn't there an elemental tunnel or some spell (distance distortion?) that makes the trip seem much shorter than journeying through 1200 miles of rock? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gilles Leblanc" To: Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 9:37 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] Aegos-Mystical Conveyor > I know that because the HW is smaller, two points on the known word lead to > farther points at the same place on the KW but has anyone ever found it > strange that the shaft of Aegos is in the town of Haldamar in Alphatian > Neatharum, while the other end is on the island of Aegos in the Alphatia > sea. > > While Atruaghin mystical conveyor an one end on the Atruaghin Plateau and > one end in Azcan lands which are pretty close to the shaft of Aegos. I don't > even know if it's in the right direction because of the inverse of east-west > thing. > > Also if you check on the HW map, the polar ice caps seems ( in my opinion ) > near far from Beastmen waste which is not far from the conveyor, while on > the KW they seem pretty far from Aegos. > > Another thing there are 3 quests for the HW. I know one of them is in Nithia > the other Azca and another in Shajapur. Well I think in the first one the > PCs enter via the broken lands and end up either in Nithia or Azcan, both of > which wouldn't make sense considering the other reference points we have. I > don't own this quest so I can't be sure tough. > > Anyone else has noticed stuff like this. > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:39:26 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind On Thu, 24 May 2001 12:40:30 -0700, Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: (snip) > > Ob Mystara: On the other hand, think of the /headache/ it would cause -- >what a great way to kill a mage's concentration eh? ;-) > >Jenni A. M. Merrifield >=-> strawberryJAMM <=- > Why do you think we Alphatians researched the spell "Continual Invisible Metal Umbrella" ? Nice try, though :) - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 18:04:45 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: Ranting Re: [MYSTARA] The battle of Wilmik. (thestart of acampain) On Thu, 24 May 2001 11:55:54 +0200, Caroletti wrote: >Well, this made me smile. >A discussion and a possible flame ended well, with profit. > >This is a stupid message, I know, but I always like it when people get >along on the list. > >I think I'm going in my room, close all the window and sit down to cry. 8-) > Oh dear!! In that case, I'm almost sad you don't know how most of those "battles" I've "fought" with "Evil Genius" ended off-list, because, after lots of arguing, I always thought we both walked away a little wiser. I don't know if he agrees (and to my knowledge he's not on the list at the moment, so he can't tell us), but I know that's how I felt (and I take the fact that we are still in contact fairly often as support of this)! Oh, and I don't just say that because I like the idea of Thyatians in tears. Honestly! :) - The Stalker (notorious Alphatian wizard and evil DM) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 21:42:30 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Bill Manley Subject: natinal economy workgroup? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I think this has been asked befor, but I can't recall the outcome. (if yo don't want to read all of this, skip to the bottom and read the last part) I have tried several times to determine the income of several nations in Mystara. all efforts are in vain cuz of the vaugeness or short commings of available rules, for instance the dominion rules outlined in the D&D Rules Cyclopiedia. so I am makeing a system for kingdom income (any help would be appretiated). the outline goes something like this: ICOME FOR DOMINIONS INSIDE A LARGER KINDOM: 1: head tax (or income tax). 1a: low income pop. 1b: mid-income pop. 1c: high income pop. 1d: court nobles. 2: trade. 2a: import tax. 2b: export tax. 2c: dock fees. 2d: storage fee (possible, not for sure yet). 3: Land tax. 3a: wildlands 3b: tamed lands 3c: farmlands (or homesteads) 3d: unwalled setlements 3e: walled settlements 3f: cities 4: Luxury tax. 4a: Magical items. 4b: mundane items (rare, exotic, & other expencive items) 5: Sales tax. 6: Slave tax (in some nations). 6a: Males. 6b: Females. 6c: Children. 6d: Humaniod. 6e: Magical (or beasts restrained by magic). 7: Buisness tax. 7a: License fees. 7b: License renewal fees. 8: Sword tax. 8a: weapons tax for armed guards. 8b: weapons tax for general pop. EXPENCES FOR DOMINIONS IN A KINGDOM: 1: Salt tax. 1a: payments to kingdom. 1b: payments to overlord (whats the term? not the king but the noble above you in the chain) 2: Church tax. 2a: national church 2b: local church 3: Military. 3a: army 1: soldier wages. 2: officer wages. 3: reservist wages. 4: fort upkeep. 5: supplies. 3b: Navy. 1: soldier wages (and sailor). 2: officer wages. 3: reservist wages. 4: naval base upkeep. 5: supplies. 6: ship maintaince and constuction. 3c: Airfleet. 1: soldier wages 2: officer wages 3: reservist wages 4: base upkeep 5: supplies 6: ship maintaince and constuction (or beast maintaince) 4: education (magical or mundan cources) 4a: teacher wages 4b: school maintaince 4c: school constuction 5: social security 5a: investments to increase low income ppl to mid income ppl. 5b: welfar (like thyatis's bread program) 6: Castles (could be combined with army or military) 6a: Castle constuction 6b: Castle maintaince 7: Staff 7a: (see list in DM Guide, should be broken down into seperate cabints) please add to this list (or recomend changes). when an agreeable list of items is made I (or we if anyone wants to get involved)will start working on rules to determine how to construct a national budget (or rules system). Other things I want to address are technology levels and how to increase them (or decrease them), a way to stimulate economic growth (or the opposite), how to encourage population growth (and the opposite), ect. after this project is finished, I want to start on mass combat. the reason I want to do this is because I would like to re-enact the WotI, not as hero's playing through it, but as kings and country leaders fighting the wars. I would work on this with my PC's but they are kinda....well, duh? on the situation (not that they are stupid ppl, but they just don't...how do I want to word this...get the point? or they have no experiance with this kinda thing.) if you want to help: ICQ: 69249858 e-mail: kinglosser@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 01:55:57 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Well I tought that by posting some Mystara DMing related question, we would get away from all those off topic debates and rants, but seems I was mistaken.... ( penny falling question ). But what about what I originally said about how many poeple base their campaigns or travels away from KW and SC and also how many poeple use net products ? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 20:56:15 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Eric Anondson Subject: OT: I am so sorry everyone In-Reply-To: <20010524235906.40A6D2DDB15@brea.mc.mpls.visi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v388) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> If this was -your- own mailing list, and not someone elses, your >> point would apply. What a talk show host says during his own show >> is not the same as a you saying what you wish and having it >> "broadcast" on someone elses mailing list. > your confusing the issue. I cannot be sued for voicing my opinion > on anyones mailing list. the only thing that can happen to me is > getting banned from that mailing list and all my messegas being > removed. it's kinda like saying I own my TV, therefor if I see any > offending broadcasts I have a leagle > right to sue the person that broadcast the offending program. *sigh* That you think your example is at all similar to the example I gave, makes me just want to cry, or laugh or scream. It is as if you think I am saying something I'm not. *I* have said not one word about being sued, yet you think I have. To try to make it clearer it seems I might need to resort to baby-talk level and that would just insult everyone. I apologize to the list, if I knew this is what I was getting into I would have not tried to enlighten. It is pointless to continue, so I end my participation. I will keep all I say from here on only Mystara related. Eric Anondson (very saddened) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 22:13:33 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Bill Manley Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The cost of having an air force often out weighs the need for one. skyships cost millions of gold to make, not to mention the cost of research and failed attemps. most countries don't have the resourses nessesary to start a massive project like building a skyship. Pegasi and griffons would be a cheaper alternitive to this, but the cost to upkeep and purchase these animals are often 10-20 times that of regular heavy cavalry (atleast in my campains they are). not to mention that griffons (is it griffons?) love to eat horses and often attack them on sight. so the risk of having them turn on you while encamped is a huge risk a commander has to take into account. let's also take into account the training costs and risk to personnal. these things could easily bankrupt even a large nation. but back to skyships. Magic-users are a key ingrediant to building them. these ppl charge alot of money for their services and they don't exactly grow on trees. even in alphatia they are reluctant to give up their personnal research projects to work on somthing that they don't benifit from. and a well placed dispell magic, or anti-magic spell would seriously hinder your plans to rule the world from the air. lets also take into account that armies that don't have access to flying items will take steps to ensure their armies will be protected from these kinds of attacks. one tactic would be to scatter your forces on the battle feild, or atleast keep them from being huttled together. other tactics would be developed as well. to quote myself from another post, they build a bridge and get over it. but overall, it's up to the DM to ensure that everything is balanced. encourage your PC's to try something differant, but be ready when they succed. and always make it a challenge for them to reach their goals. with the extrem cost of a skyship, it's very unlikly that someone would leave it laying about unguarded with the keys in it, LOL. well that's my 2 copper peices. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 22:17:23 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Bill Manley Subject: Re: OT: I am so sorry everyone Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed right to sue the person that broadcast the offending program. > >*sigh* > >That you think your example is at all similar to the example I gave, >makes me just want to cry, or laugh or scream. It is as if you >think I am saying something I'm not. *I* have said not one word >about being sued, yet you think I have. To try to make it clearer >it seems I might need to resort to baby-talk level and that would >just insult everyone. > >I apologize to the list, if I knew this is what I was getting into I >would have not tried to enlighten. It is pointless to continue, so >I end my participation. I will keep all I say from here on only >Mystara related. > > >Eric Anondson (very saddened) Eric, I think it is more my fault than yours. I obviously misunderstood what you were trying to say. My apologies. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 23:10:29 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind In-Reply-To: <71E277A7F4FCD2118A700008C79F725592E5DF@JOSHUA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 24 May 2001, Christopher Cherrington wrote: > and then disintegrates! ...or takes 6d6 damage if it makes its' save :) Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 23:15:39 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: OT: Of rants and... rights In-Reply-To: <003701c0e4a1$0e3696a0$2a63d8cd@jdaly> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 24 May 2001, Jeff Daly wrote: > Rights is specifically aimed toward Federal government...unfortunately, most > people wouldn't get the significance. That is true! It is a tad unfortunate that Jefferson didn't consider including in the Bill of Rights a uniformity clause decreeing that all states have to abide by these same basic ten amendments. At least then people wouldn't have eminent domain hovering over their heads like a headsman's axe. But that's another thread for another time and another list. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 23:18:38 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind In-Reply-To: <001c01c0e4b1$40d06f40$e0511f42@D56DN901> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 24 May 2001, Dan Eustace wrote: > would have been conquered long ago. Otherwise, a level 5 MU with a fly > spell and an artillery wand can fly above bow range and easily rout an enemy > army or destroy a village. Since a single flying enemy of even relatively One solution: Skilled archers trained to shoot down flying foes. Another: Friendly MU's that can cast dispel magic. Another: Giants (pesky gnat-men.. swat!) Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 23:19:21 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 24 May 2001, The Stalker wrote: > Why do you think we Alphatians researched the spell "Continual Invisible > Metal Umbrella" ? And why the Thyatians developed the portable lightning storm maker. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 23:09:27 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Lupin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "shawn stanley" > > >The Vaults of Pandius site probably has other material > >as well -- in fact, it seems to have every fan-produced writing > >about Mystara ever written. > > except those that people choose to keep on their own sites So my "seems to" reference was well justified -- I had a hunch that it didn't *really* have everything relevant to Mystara. Maybe you should more aggressively seek permission to host Mystara stuff on your site -- and somebody else should volunteer to mirror your site in case you unexpectedly vanish into an alternate dimension? There is a great deal of Mystara stuff out there that is good or better that most of us on this list would not wish to see vanish into obvlivion. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 23:13:49 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Lupin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Eyal Fleminger" > The article in Dragon 237 was written for AD&D; there is also an earlier > article (don't remember the number, but I think it was the Princess Ark > chapter on Renardy) giving OD&D details. I wrote a conversion of the AD&D > rules to OD&D; I hope to put it up on a web page (along with other material) > over the weekend. The OD&D article from the Princess Ark series was published in issue 181 -- I looked up the issue from my research file on Dragon magazine articles related to Mystara. Given the general level of usefulness of such material, maybe I should provide a link to those reports in the files of the Mystara3E project -- I suspect that many people on this list would find them useful regardless of the exact game system that they are using. I will provide the necessary link to this list over the Memorial Day weekend unless somebody on the Mystara3E list provides a firmly decisive veto to the idea. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 23:18:08 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: I couldn't believe it but it's true MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "The Stalker" > > This is the real problem with Chick's "work" I think - it doesn't just hurt > us role-players in the eyes of many religious people (not just Christians, > I think), it also hurts their religions in our eyes because we could jump > to the conclusion all Christians act the way Chick manages to describe. > IMHO compassion and understanding is at the core of Christianity and most > other religions we could mention, and I think the points Chick is trying to > make are the exact opposite of that. That's just my own opinion, though, > uninformed as it may be... I guess I shouldn't bring up the friend of mine who said, "I was worshiping Satan for many years before I discovered D&D...." While I got the joke, I suppose there are still some people around who could lift that joke out of its original context and make it into something sinister.... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 23:21:48 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: A Timeline for Mystara part three MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To Ville: You have nothing at all to be ashamed of -- I was simply offering you a name to give to Glantri before it became Glantri. Trust me, your timeline is a lot more reasonable than that of my first Mystara campaign! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 23:31:47 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Mystara stuff on list for ESD continuation! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "David S. Leland" > > The list of 600 includes virtually all OD&D and Mystara stuff, and can > be viewed at http://www.rpgplanet.com/dnd3e/downloads/esd501.txt > Woo hoo! Furthermore, if I read the announcement correctly, WotC and Jim Butler have effectively made a joint promise to have that material available within one calendar year. Thus, if they keep that promise, all Mystara material will be available by the end of May 2002, and (given the fact that Mystara and OD&D material makes up about a quarter of that list) it seems likely that there will be some nice "freebies" on that list. While the Mystaran ESDs are not a major personal concern to me (as I see exactly three items that I plan to pick up that way -- three small modules that I somehow missed when they were first published), it will be nice to be able to refer people to a nice legal central repository where they can pick up all of those OOP Mystaran goodies.... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 00:27:30 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: natinal economy workgroup? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have detailed economy's for my PC and NPC dominions. My system is based on the RC dominion guidelines with some modifications. I simplify the income received by the dominion to equal # of peasant families X (Resource Factor + Tax Rate) Resource Factor = Total Resource Value / # of families. For dominions greater than 1 hex, use the avg. RF from all hexes. Resource value = 1 for veg, 2 for animal, 3 for mine Tax rate = 0-25 sp month/per family (std rate = 15 sp) This is a quick summary. I have detailed spreadsheets that calc. most of the necessary info automatically. It works for me, but the incomes would probably need to be tailored for individual campaigns. If you want to check out a sample, let me know, and I'll explain it in greater detail. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Manley" To: Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 9:42 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] natinal economy workgroup? > I think this has been asked befor, but I can't recall the outcome. > (if yo don't want to read all of this, skip to the bottom and read the last > part) > > I have tried several times to determine the income of several nations in > Mystara. all efforts are in vain cuz of the vaugeness or short commings of > available rules, for instance the dominion rules outlined in the D&D Rules > Cyclopiedia. > > so I am makeing a system for kingdom income (any help would be appretiated). > the outline goes something like this: > > ICOME FOR DOMINIONS INSIDE A LARGER KINDOM: > 1: head tax (or income tax). > 1a: low income pop. > 1b: mid-income pop. > 1c: high income pop. > 1d: court nobles. > 2: trade. > 2a: import tax. > 2b: export tax. > 2c: dock fees. > 2d: storage fee (possible, not for sure yet). > 3: Land tax. > 3a: wildlands > 3b: tamed lands > 3c: farmlands (or homesteads) > 3d: unwalled setlements > 3e: walled settlements > 3f: cities > 4: Luxury tax. > 4a: Magical items. > 4b: mundane items (rare, exotic, & other expencive items) > 5: Sales tax. > 6: Slave tax (in some nations). > 6a: Males. > 6b: Females. > 6c: Children. > 6d: Humaniod. > 6e: Magical (or beasts restrained by magic). > 7: Buisness tax. > 7a: License fees. > 7b: License renewal fees. > 8: Sword tax. > 8a: weapons tax for armed guards. > 8b: weapons tax for general pop. > > EXPENCES FOR DOMINIONS IN A KINGDOM: > 1: Salt tax. > 1a: payments to kingdom. > 1b: payments to overlord (whats the term? not the king but the noble above > you in the chain) > 2: Church tax. > 2a: national church > 2b: local church > 3: Military. > 3a: army > 1: soldier wages. > 2: officer wages. > 3: reservist wages. > 4: fort upkeep. > 5: supplies. > 3b: Navy. > 1: soldier wages (and sailor). > 2: officer wages. > 3: reservist wages. > 4: naval base upkeep. > 5: supplies. > 6: ship maintaince and constuction. > 3c: Airfleet. > 1: soldier wages > 2: officer wages > 3: reservist wages > 4: base upkeep > 5: supplies > 6: ship maintaince and constuction (or beast maintaince) > 4: education (magical or mundan cources) > 4a: teacher wages > 4b: school maintaince > 4c: school constuction > 5: social security > 5a: investments to increase low income ppl to mid income ppl. > 5b: welfar (like thyatis's bread program) > 6: Castles (could be combined with army or military) > 6a: Castle constuction > 6b: Castle maintaince > 7: Staff > 7a: (see list in DM Guide, should be broken down into seperate cabints) > > > please add to this list (or recomend changes). when an agreeable list of > items is made I (or we if anyone wants to get involved)will start working on > rules to determine how to construct a national budget (or rules system). > > Other things I want to address are technology levels and how to increase > them (or decrease them), a way to stimulate economic growth (or the > opposite), how to encourage population growth (and the opposite), ect. > > after this project is finished, I want to start on mass combat. > > the reason I want to do this is because I would like to re-enact the WotI, > not as hero's playing through it, but as kings and country leaders fighting > the wars. I would work on this with my PC's but they are kinda....well, duh? > on the situation (not that they are stupid ppl, but they just don't...how do > I want to word this...get the point? or they have no experiance with this > kinda thing.) > > if you want to help: > ICQ: 69249858 > e-mail: kinglosser@hotmail.com > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 00:39:21 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: Effect of aerial forces on mass combat MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > On Thu, 24 May 2001, Dan Eustace wrote: > > > would have been conquered long ago. Otherwise, a level 5 MU with a fly > > spell and an artillery wand can fly above bow range and easily rout an enemy > > army or destroy a village. Since a single flying enemy of even relatively > > One solution: > > Skilled archers trained to shoot down flying foes. > Yes, but a simple prot from normal missiles fixes that. Of course you could just add magic arrows, but a Fire Ball has a greater range than most bows, too. > Another: > > Friendly MU's that can cast dispel magic. Yes, which is why I think, despite army listings in the PWAs, there would be a few wizards with almost every army, prepared to take out any enemy wizards. The MUs end up neutralizing each other, and then the ground armies fight a more traditional battle. > Another: > > Giants (pesky gnat-men.. swat!) Yes, they do work good. A bunch of Mt giants grounded a PCs skyship that has never since flown again. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 00:08:34 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Ron Rogers Subject: D&D movie on DVD. Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) The D&D movie just showed up on DVD locally (Illinois, USA). I missed it in the theaters so I picked it up. It has the usual added features: theatrical trailer, cast bio's, mini documentaries, deleted scenes and two commentary tracks. It has some features for the PC folks too: a demo of one of the Baldur's Gate games, and the D&D Fast Play game with characters from the movie. CronoCloud (Ron Rogers) Knight of the Square Table http://members.tripod.com/~CronoCloud/index.html Member of the Knights Knoble http://knightsknoble.cjb.net ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 00:13:05 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tell that to the nation whose economy is being wrecked as skyships fly over a city at night and drop flaming oil on them from 5,000 feet up, or bigh rocks, or green slime. Tell that to the army that whose castles are being taken out by similar means, or a besieged city that is having rotten corspes dropped in and around water supply centers. Or armies whose every move is monitored by a skyship beyond the range of weapon or magic attacks. Not having an air force would be, well, like not having an air force today. The economic argument is not reasonable. Look at today, it costs about $100,000 to maintain a soldier for their duration in the military (including food, weapons, ammo, uniforms, and training). It costs about $100,000,000 for a small fighter of helicopter over the lifetime of its service (probably lasting five to ten times longer than any individual soldier). If we look at naval warships (more akin to a skyship) we are talking billions just for a frigate. Yet not to have these things is to lose a war automatically. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Manley" To: Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 9:13 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] A simple question from a simple mind > The cost of having an air force often out weighs the need for one. > > skyships cost millions of gold to make, not to mention the cost of research > and failed attemps. most countries don't have the resourses nessesary to > start a massive project like building a skyship. > > Pegasi and griffons would be a cheaper alternitive to this, but the cost to > upkeep and purchase these animals are often 10-20 times that of regular > heavy cavalry (atleast in my campains they are). not to mention that > griffons (is it griffons?) love to eat horses and often attack them on > sight. so the risk of having them turn on you while encamped is a huge risk > a commander has to take into account. > > let's also take into account the training costs and risk to personnal. these > things could easily bankrupt even a large nation. > > but back to skyships. Magic-users are a key ingrediant to building them. > these ppl charge alot of money for their services and they don't exactly > grow on trees. even in alphatia they are reluctant to give up their > personnal research projects to work on somthing that they don't benifit > from. > > and a well placed dispell magic, or anti-magic spell would seriously hinder > your plans to rule the world from the air. > > lets also take into account that armies that don't have access to flying > items will take steps to ensure their armies will be protected from these > kinds of attacks. one tactic would be to scatter your forces on the battle > feild, or atleast keep them from being huttled together. other tactics would > be developed as well. to quote myself from another post, they build a bridge > and get over it. > > but overall, it's up to the DM to ensure that everything is balanced. > encourage your PC's to try something differant, but be ready when they > succed. and always make it a challenge for them to reach their goals. with > the extrem cost of a skyship, it's very unlikly that someone would leave it > laying about unguarded with the keys in it, LOL. > > well that's my 2 copper peices. > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 00:19:32 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This ignores the fact the skyships can fly at thousands of feet. Drop a cluster of, say, 200 50 pounds boulders from 10,000 feet (look at the damage to cars and livestock from a hailstorm with golfball sized hail; such storms regularly kill thousands of cattle and damage hundreds of cars and buildings-knocking out windshields and seriously denting roofs and hoods). If the hail were fifty pounds it would completely destroy everything in its wake! Each of the 50 pound rocks would be capably of killing a person it hit, or penetrating through the roof of a building, destroying a wagon completely, or similar effects. I am not aware of any easy countermeasures to such things other than skyships or similar air forces. Try doing this to Thyatis, and you will wind up on the wrong end of the Retebius Air Corps. Similarly Alphatia will fields its sky fleet. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "SteelAngel" To: Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 10:18 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] A simple question from a simple mind > On Thu, 24 May 2001, Dan Eustace wrote: > > > would have been conquered long ago. Otherwise, a level 5 MU with a fly > > spell and an artillery wand can fly above bow range and easily rout an enemy > > army or destroy a village. Since a single flying enemy of even relatively > > One solution: > > Skilled archers trained to shoot down flying foes. > > Another: > > Friendly MU's that can cast dispel magic. > > Another: > > Giants (pesky gnat-men.. swat!) > > > Ethan > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 01:27:41 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: Air Forces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The cost of having an air force often out weighs the need for one. > > skyships cost millions of gold to make, not to mention the cost of research > and failed attemps. most countries don't have the resourses nessesary to > start a massive project like building a skyship. I was really talking about wizards or other heroes as commando types to eliminate the overwhelming advantage that could be gained by an uncountered flying enemy wizard. Skyships are a whole 'nother story... > Pegasi and griffons would be a cheaper alternitive to this, but the cost to > upkeep and purchase these animals are often 10-20 times that of regular > heavy cavalry (atleast in my campains they are). not to mention that > griffons (is it griffons?) love to eat horses and often attack them on > sight. so the risk of having them turn on you while encamped is a huge risk > a commander has to take into account. > > let's also take into account the training costs and risk to personnal. these > things could easily bankrupt even a large nation. Agreed. One of my PCs wanted to raise up an aerial cavalry, but the costs were far too extreme. > but back to skyships. Magic-users are a key ingrediant to building them. > these ppl charge alot of money for their services and they don't exactly > grow on trees. even in alphatia they are reluctant to give up their > personnal research projects to work on somthing that they don't benifit > from. > > and a well placed dispell magic, or anti-magic spell would seriously hinder > your plans to rule the world from the air. Yes, that is one possible counter-action, but it still requires a MU to combat the enemy MU. That was the main point I was trying to make. > > lets also take into account that armies that don't have access to flying > items will take steps to ensure their armies will be protected from these > kinds of attacks. one tactic would be to scatter your forces on the battle > feild, or atleast keep them from being huttled together. other tactics would > be developed as well. to quote myself from another post, they build a bridge > and get over it. Spreading out the armies may not help all that much. It would just delay the inevitable, as witnessed from Battlesystem games, which I think work quite well, even if they take all day to resolve! A wizard with a perm. fly can just keep following them around blasting them apart. Sizable armies that would be formidable ground forces can be made helpless by even a single MU, unless they have the appropriate counter measures. Say 1000 cavalry are riding toward a town to capture it. They have longbows and are led by a F9 w/o any means of flying. The MU9 guardian of the town (convenient, I know) casts fly, goes up out of bow range and starts to rout them with various spells. All they can do is flee or perish. After a few accounts of battles like these, armies would include MUs in their ranks to shoot down the enemy, dispel him, or to cast fly on warriors able to engage him. This practice would eventually spread out of necessity for survival. Basically, this is kind of how it evolved IMC, when PCs 1st gained the ability to fly, and then took out what should have been a powerful enemy force. The next time, the enemy had a means to counteract. Eventually, it became obvious that this one factor could be so decisive, that I made it a near universal practice. I thought it was more plausible than a small band of adventurers taking out an entire Thyatian legion! > but overall, it's up to the DM to ensure that everything is balanced. > encourage your PC's to try something differant, but be ready when they > succed. and always make it a challenge for them to reach their goals. with > the extrem cost of a skyship, it's very unlikly that someone would leave it > laying about unguarded with the keys in it, LOL. It makes for a lot of fireworks, but it is definitely balanced. When I can still keep a trio of level 36 PCs on their toes after all these years, I'd say it's working OK. It takes alot to balance them out and still keep it sane. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 01:40:01 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: Air Forces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I am not aware of any easy countermeasures to such things other than > skyships or similar air forces. Some places could have magical anti-aircraft, like a blight belcher or meteor swarm cannon with a high altitude range. > Try doing this to Thyatis, and you will wind up on the wrong end of the > Retebius Air Corps. Similarly Alphatia will fields its sky fleet. That's why they are the Superpowers of Mystara. They could bring their power to bear on any nearby nations without fear. Only the threat of each other's intervention would make them think twice. Notice, how in WotI, the large Alphatian aerial advantage was neutralized early on by a non-military engagement (inferno of Aasla)? It had to occur to make the scenario somewhat plausible, even for a fantasy world. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 22:41:35 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "Jenni A.M. Merrifield" Organization: strawberryJAMM Designs Subject: Re: Lupin In-Reply-To: <01fd01c0e4cd$8964ff20$a8a61a26@q6s7w2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 24 May 2001, at 23:13, David Knott wrote: > From: "Eyal Fleminger" > The OD&D article from the Princess Ark series was published in issue > 181 -- I looked up the issue from my research file on Dragon magazine > articles related to Mystara. Given the general level of usefulness of > such material, maybe I should provide a link to those reports in the > files of the Mystara3E project -- I suspect that many people on this > list would find them useful regardless of the exact game system that > they are using. I will provide the necessary link to this list over the > Memorial Day weekend unless somebody on the Mystara3E list > provides a firmly decisive veto to the idea. While I'm not actually vetoing the idea, I thought I'd point out that the files at the M3E web site are only available to members of the M3E mailing list / project group. If you want to make the research part of the information available outside of the M3E project, I certainly have no objection (and I doubt anyone else on the list will either), but you'll probably need to have them collected an posted at some web location outside of the projects yahoo! groups web-space. Maybe there's a place where the research could find a home somewhere in the Vaults? Jenni -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield -=> strawberryJAMM <=- Benevolent Despot of the Mystara 3E Project M3E Project: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mystara3E ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 01:51:12 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Lupin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Jenni A.M. Merrifield" > > While I'm not actually vetoing the idea, I thought I'd point out that the > files at the M3E web site are only available to members of the M3E mailing > list / project group. > > If you want to make the research part of the information available > outside of the M3E project, I certainly have no objection (and I doubt > anyone else on the list will either), but you'll probably need to have them > collected an posted at some web location outside of the projects yahoo! > groups web-space. Maybe there's a place where the research could find a > home somewhere in the Vaults? You raised the very point I wasn't sure of -- can non-members of the Mystara3E project access Mystara3E files? Assuming that they cannot, I think that the one and only file that so far would be of general Mystaran interest would be my Dragon magazine summary file. Thus, the best idea would be for me to send Shawn a copy of that file and ask him to post that file on his site. Any further actions can safely await further requests from readers of that file. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 08:39:15 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "G.P. Agosta" Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gilles Leblanc wrote: > > But what about what I originally said about how many poeple base their > campaigns or travels away from KW and SC and also how many poeple use net > products ? Since my players are all at their first or second Mystaran campaign, I tend to stick with the main areas. As to "net products", I use them quite a lot, especially materials about Hule, since my campaign currently revolves around a Hulean plot. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 06:36:42 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Mystara3E vs OD&D Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Some of the conversations have begun to worry me about the future of OD&D. How many other people still love OD&D (such as myself) on this list? Please, we must keep it alive for future generations so they're offered more than 3E. Angelo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 06:42:37 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Castle Defenses Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Speaking of such defensives, I was wondering if anyone remembers which issue of Dragon Magazine had details on how castles could become more defensive vs certain attacks that did not occur during Earth's middle ages. (Such as massive magic and air attacks, wizards teleporting, walking on water over moats, etc.) I remember reading the article, and it was great. Angelo >From: Dan Eustace >Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion >To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Air Forces >Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 01:40:01 -0400 > > > I am not aware of any easy countermeasures to such things other than > > skyships or similar air forces. > >Some places could have magical anti-aircraft, like a blight belcher or >meteor swarm cannon with a high altitude range. > > > Try doing this to Thyatis, and you will wind up on the wrong end of the > > Retebius Air Corps. Similarly Alphatia will fields its sky fleet. > >That's why they are the Superpowers of Mystara. They could bring their >power to bear on any nearby nations without fear. Only the threat of each >other's intervention would make them think twice. Notice, how in WotI, the >large Alphatian aerial advantage was neutralized early on by a non-military >engagement (inferno of Aasla)? It had to occur to make the scenario >somewhat plausible, even for a fantasy world. > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 02:47:57 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Heard James Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/25/2001 1:37:12 AM Central Daylight Time, abertoll@HOTMAIL.COM writes: > Please, we must keep it alive for future generations so they're offered more > than 3E. Why? Pre-Newtonian math might be good too, for its time... Don't get me wrong, I loved it when it came out and I still love the setting- but I find clinging to rulesets as strange as doing my math with a sliderule when I have a perfectly good calculator available. JMH ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 09:07:42 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "G.P. Agosta" Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Angelo Bertolli wrote: > Some of the conversations have begun to worry me about the future of OD&D. > How many other people still love OD&D (such as myself) on this list? > > Please, we must keep it alive for future generations so they're offered > more > than 3E. Here is your answer: http://dnd.starflung.com/results.html OD&D is still the most popular rule set here. It is noticeable that even AD&D 2e scored a good result, compared to the polls held on the other official fan sites: overall, only some 35% of the people adopted 3E (at 18 March, at least), while most other settings had only around 25% of the people planning to stick with the old rule sets. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 03:39:38 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Bill Manley Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: George Hrabovsky >Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion >To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] A simple question from a simple mind >Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 00:13:05 -0500 > >Tell that to the nation whose economy is being wrecked as skyships fly over >a city at night and drop flaming oil on them from 5,000 feet up, or bigh >rocks, or green slime. Tell that to the army that whose castles are being >taken out by similar means, or a besieged city that is having rotten >corspes >dropped in and around water supply centers. Or armies whose every move is >monitored by a skyship beyond the range of weapon or magic attacks. > >Not having an air force would be, well, like not having an air force today. > >The economic argument is not reasonable. Look at today, it costs about >$100,000 to maintain a soldier for their duration in the military >(including >food, weapons, ammo, uniforms, and training). It costs about $100,000,000 >for a small fighter of helicopter over the lifetime of its service >(probably >lasting five to ten times longer than any individual soldier). > >If we look at naval warships (more akin to a skyship) we are talking >billions just for a frigate. > >Yet not to have these things is to lose a war automatically. > > George > very true george, but if a nation dumps all that money into a sky fleet, then their gound forces would be lacking and they would be over run with or without skyships. skyships are fine and dandy when your talking about laying seige to a castle. but if you lack the ground forces to hold the land, then your billion dollar investment is only a very powerful exscape vehicle. I don't deny the fact that skyships give you the power to decimate an army rather easy. all I'm saying is countries that don't have the privlage of owning one have to put together a stratagy to counter the skyship. Thyatis has 200ft. tall towers with ballistas mounted in them to counter skyships. I'm sure any other country that is facing the same thing would invent something to fight back with also. or do what the Ethengar's did when a bird of prey showed up to stop their advance...run away. but yeah, like I said, if my country had the resources to biuld a skyship I would definatly biuld one. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 03:57:40 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Bill Manley Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed here's my 2 copper peices on the whole thing: I started playing with OD&D then switched to AD&D 2e because of the options and more detail. I have played with this system for more than 10 years and have made alot of changes to the system to suit my (and my PC's) needs. I have also spend untold amounts of money buying rule expantions, boxed sets, and other such products. My PC's know this system and are very content with it (bare in mind we still have week long arguments about some issues). I'm not going to waist the money and time on a new rules system when I am content with the one I am using now. Money: I have the money to spend on it but I would rather not. the money really isn't the issue. Time: that's the issue. I can learn the system and teach it to my PC's in less then a week. but the arguments start all over again and it will be 5 years b4 we are content with it. it would be much easier to convert the new adventure's to AD&D rules and play from there....if I bought those things. I can fully agree with both sides of the coin. but I'm going to be an old fuddy-duddy and stick with the outdated products. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 11:12:38 +0300 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Ville V Lahde Subject: Crossovers In-Reply-To: <200105250705.f4P75t600648@uta.fi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Well, as you might have noticed, the "Twin campaigns" uses a lot of material from Krynn (draconians, Chemos). IMC Kitiara is also one important figure. She met Ivan Ivanovich during the basic adventures and was with the PCs all way through Chateau D'Amberville. Now she is a general in the armies of Aphastes, which Ivan is well aware of. This is one more remnant from, oh, 1989 or something. but it still seems to work ok. I'm looking for the day when Ivan and Kitiara fight it out. Kitiara riding a great black dragon of Idris, Ivan his new "girlfriend", Ariannaid the silver dragon/Hinterlander Aurakia follower. Ville ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 03:36:36 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Of course, another possibility would be to purchase aircraft from Serraine. These are a lot less expensive than skyships. You could by a half dozen Tomcats for the price of a skyship. Even having a couple of these things around would give an enemy pause. They could make it too costly to bring in your skyship... George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Manley" To: Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 2:39 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] A simple question from a simple mind > >From: George Hrabovsky > >Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion > >To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] A simple question from a simple mind > >Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 00:13:05 -0500 > > > >Tell that to the nation whose economy is being wrecked as skyships fly over > >a city at night and drop flaming oil on them from 5,000 feet up, or bigh > >rocks, or green slime. Tell that to the army that whose castles are being > >taken out by similar means, or a besieged city that is having rotten > >corspes > >dropped in and around water supply centers. Or armies whose every move is > >monitored by a skyship beyond the range of weapon or magic attacks. > > > >Not having an air force would be, well, like not having an air force today. > > > >The economic argument is not reasonable. Look at today, it costs about > >$100,000 to maintain a soldier for their duration in the military > >(including > >food, weapons, ammo, uniforms, and training). It costs about $100,000,000 > >for a small fighter of helicopter over the lifetime of its service > >(probably > >lasting five to ten times longer than any individual soldier). > > > >If we look at naval warships (more akin to a skyship) we are talking > >billions just for a frigate. > > > >Yet not to have these things is to lose a war automatically. > > > > George > > > > very true george, but if a nation dumps all that money into a sky fleet, > then their gound forces would be lacking and they would be over run with or > without skyships. > > skyships are fine and dandy when your talking about laying seige to a > castle. but if you lack the ground forces to hold the land, then your > billion dollar investment is only a very powerful exscape vehicle. > > I don't deny the fact that skyships give you the power to decimate an army > rather easy. all I'm saying is countries that don't have the privlage of > owning one have to put together a stratagy to counter the skyship. > > Thyatis has 200ft. tall towers with ballistas mounted in them to counter > skyships. I'm sure any other country that is facing the same thing would > invent something to fight back with also. > > or do what the Ethengar's did when a bird of prey showed up to stop their > advance...run away. > > but yeah, like I said, if my country had the resources to biuld a skyship I > would definatly biuld one. > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 18:35:48 +1000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: Mystara stuff on list for ESD continuation! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 23:31 24/05/01 -0400, you wrote: >From: "David S. Leland" >> >> The list of 600 includes virtually all OD&D and Mystara stuff, and can >> be viewed at http://www.rpgplanet.com/dnd3e/downloads/esd501.txt >> Woo hoo! > >Furthermore, if I read the announcement correctly, WotC and Jim >Butler have effectively made a joint promise to have that material >available within one calendar year. Thus, if they keep that promise, >all Mystara material will be available by the end of May 2002, and >(given the fact that Mystara and OD&D material makes up about >a quarter of that list) it seems likely that there will be some nice >"freebies" on that list. While the Mystaran ESDs are not a major >personal concern to me (as I see exactly three items that I plan to >pick up that way -- three small modules that I somehow missed >when they were first published), it will be nice to be able to refer >people to a nice legal central repository where they can pick up >all of those OOP Mystaran goodies.... If you're American at any rate shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 18:41:15 +1000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: Lupin Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 23:09 24/05/01 -0400, you wrote: >From: "shawn stanley" >> >> >The Vaults of Pandius site probably has other material >> >as well -- in fact, it seems to have every fan-produced writing >> >about Mystara ever written. >> >> except those that people choose to keep on their own sites > >So my "seems to" reference was well justified -- I had a hunch that >it didn't *really* have everything relevant to Mystara. Maybe you >should more aggressively seek permission to host Mystara stuff on >your site -- anybody out there want to volunteer? >and somebody else should volunteer to mirror your site >in case you unexpectedly vanish into an alternate dimension? I know that it hasn't been updated in about a month but I'm not planning on that soon. >There >is a great deal of Mystara stuff out there that is good or better that >most of us on this list would not wish to see vanish into obvlivion. shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 18:44:20 +1000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: shawn stanley Subject: 3E Mystara Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 22:41 24/05/01 -0700, you wrote: >On 24 May 2001, at 23:13, David Knott wrote: >> From: "Eyal Fleminger" >> The OD&D article from the Princess Ark series was published in issue >> 181 -- I looked up the issue from my research file on Dragon magazine >> articles related to Mystara. Given the general level of usefulness of >> such material, maybe I should provide a link to those reports in the >> files of the Mystara3E project -- I suspect that many people on this >> list would find them useful regardless of the exact game system that >> they are using. I will provide the necessary link to this list over the >> Memorial Day weekend unless somebody on the Mystara3E list >> provides a firmly decisive veto to the idea. > > While I'm not actually vetoing the idea, I thought I'd point out that the >files at the M3E web site are only available to members of the M3E mailing >list / project group. > > If you want to make the research part of the information available >outside of the M3E project, I certainly have no objection (and I doubt >anyone else on the list will either), but you'll probably need to have them >collected an posted at some web location outside of the projects yahoo! >groups web-space. Maybe there's a place where the research could find a >home somewhere in the Vaults? I am definitly more than happy to start hosting 3E stuff, I think Mystaran 3E stuff needs to be somewhere. Even if you gals and guys aren't finished yet I think that people need to see something. I just never offererd because ... someone (I can't remember who) at the time when the 3E group was started seemed to want to keep things separate from the Vaults. That's why I've kept well clear, but if you want it hosted on the Vaults, then of course I'll host it there. shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 09:01:21 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed That's only because there's no argument that a calculator is an improvement. Some might disagree with you in D&D. I mean, a calculator makes things easier to do. Well, if that's your criteria, OD&D is easier to use too ;> Angelo >From: Heard James >Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion >To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Mystara3E vs OD&D >Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 02:47:57 EDT > >In a message dated 5/25/2001 1:37:12 AM Central Daylight Time, >abertoll@HOTMAIL.COM writes: > > > > Please, we must keep it alive for future generations so they're offered >more > > than 3E. > >Why? Pre-Newtonian math might be good too, for its time... Don't get me >wrong, I loved it when it came out and I still love the setting- but I find >clinging to rulesets as strange as doing my math with a sliderule when I >have >a perfectly good calculator available. > >JMH > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 05:17:21 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Heard James Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/25/2001 4:02:22 AM Central Daylight Time, abertoll@HOTMAIL.COM writes: > > That's only because there's no argument that a calculator is an improvement. > Some might disagree with you in D&D. I mean, a calculator makes things > easier to do. Well, if that's your criteria, OD& Only when you've been using OD&D or AD&D forever and house ruled and whatnot everything. I'm sure these sorts of things will pop up eventually, but 3E seems remarkably resilient to breakage and the folks at WOTC have been fairly forthcoming with information related to some of those decisions that seemd more of flavor and not mechanics (such as alignments and multiclassing issue with Paladins and Monks). Actually, in simplicity's favor 3E is much more like OD&D than AD&D. It just doesn't have those strange old system restrictions enforced in place that were made for the sake of game balance 20 years ago. I'm not ragging OD&D, I'm just saying that 3E seems able to take every house rule I've ever made in a home campaign in stride or make them redundant. The calculator is an improvement because it makes life easier, but I'm sure a few folks stubbornly clung to slide rules because they were more familiar with them at first. I think the only issues I have with the whole Mystara 3E project are my doubts that we're trying to force an OD&D model upon 3E instead of forcing a Mystaran model on 3E. Oh well, everybody likes their peculiar brands of cake too. JMH ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:27:16 +0300 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: harri m�ki Comments: To: Andrew Theisen , erik waddell , Francisco Navarro , Giampaolo Agosta , Giovanni Porpora , Jennifer Favia Guerra , Marco Fossati , Markus Montola , max monas , Ohad Shaham , stewart lenz Hi all, just giving notice that I have transfer my web pages (Glantrian houses) to a new address (www.geocities.com/hihama). Nothing new there though. Harri - Sunpoint.net antaa vihjeen: Osoitteesta www.sunpoint.net l�yd�t riitt�v�sti sopivan kokoisia operaattorilogoja komistamaan matkapuhelimesi n�ytt��. http://www.sunpoint.net/SunAds/click.htm?mode=footer&id=46&jump=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sunpoint.net%2Flogo% ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 11:46:54 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gilles Leblanc wrote: > Well I tought that by posting some Mystara DMing related question, we = would > get away from all those off topic debates and rants, but seems I was > mistaken.... ( penny falling question ). It's not that easy to stop those, it seems that even when the List = Moderator says 'stop', people just keep on going... > But what about what I originally said about how many poeple base their > campaigns or travels away from KW and SC and also how many poeple use = net > products ? My campaigns seemed to end all the time with players moving or losing = interest in gaming. Thus I've had to start over many times. I much = prefer to start over in the KW, since I have so much published material = and stuff of my own that it takes less time for me to get prepared. = Besides I've always been Brun-centric. :) I use some net stuff, mainly general works like spells, diseases, items, = NPCs, and monsters. I've also run one or two adventures, I've found on = the net. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 14:01:45 +0300 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Ville V Lahde Subject: Geopolitics before Nomad Invasion In-Reply-To: <200105240705.f4O753626812@uta.fi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT The Geopolitical situation before the Nomad Invasion "The Twin Campaigns", 1011 AC Ville L�hde Here are some general notes concerning the political situation of the states that will be mostly affected by the coming Nomad Invasion. HULE & SIND The ancient cult of Hosadus has arisen again in Hule. The last time it was on ascendancy after "the Time of Withdrawal", when the Nomad armies attacked the area now known as Darokin (then a loose confederacy of human kingdoms). The new incarnation of Hosadus is again looking hungrily at the eastern nations. He is one of the few people who know that the cult of Hosadus is actually a front for Thanatos-worship. (Note: During their years of adventuring the future Darokinian wartime ambassadors know this, too.) Hosadus is now the lord of Hule and Sind. DAROKIN Darokin is a powerful merchant state. Also, the techniques of agriculture and goods production have evolved substantially there. Rudimentary fertilisers based on alchemy are in use, and the first manufactures are in operation. This enables Darokin to raise a powerful military forces without having to allocate soldiers to harvesting etc. The diplomatic corps are not so powerful as the Gazetteers imply, but still Darokin has capable diplomats and "intelligence gatherers" deployed in most realms (not in Ethengar, as there's no central government). Even though the Darokin military is strong, it is not mobilised continuously (as the Gazetteer suggests). Each major city has a strong guards garrison, and the border forts have small legions (equivalent of Reserve Division). Areas bordering strong humanoid nations have of course stronger garrisons. ATRUAGHIN This is a relatively unknown realm. Right now there's no central government. The seven clans war with each other periodically, but they abide by traditional rules of engagement. During the last year there's been some bad blood between the Atruaghinians and Darokinian prospectors. A militant faction (like the violent wing of the Ghost Dancers) has arisen among many tribes. Agents of the Desert Master have made contacts with many tribes. It is likely that as many as four tribe will join the war on the side of the master. GLANTRI The magocracy is a strong nation, although it seems to be politically divided. Lacking a strong central figure the Council of Princes tends to squabble more than it used to. (Note: As Etienne was only released from imprisonment a few years ago, his power isn't so great as his votes in the council suggest.) The Council is very worried about the possibility of a new Great Khan in Ethengar, and may yet try to intervene. When the ambassadors from Darokin come to ask Glantri to join the war, the vote of the Council will be a tough one: The Igorovs will vote against the war, but will not actively oppose the intervention. They don't want to draw attention to their deal with Aphastes. The Ritterburgs will be sceptical, but they recognise the importance of good diplomatic relations with their friends the Darokinians. If they vote for the war, they are sure to insist on a clause that would leave the bulk of the army to defend the eastern border from Ethengarian assault. The Singhabads are for the intervention, as they have been working towards it all the time. The attitude on the Ellerovyns depends on the state of Alfheim, but they can be persuaded to join the war if someone rids them of a "forestry problem". In this case the Alhambras are sure to vote against the war. The Sylaire family may well vote for the war if the ambassadors remind Etienne of the favour they did (released him from imprisonment). But the rest of the family may do something nasty to their old enemies� THAR Thar will not take any part in the war, if some sporadic raiding of the supply lines of Corunglain is discounted. Thar is busy with his plans to gather the 20 000 -strong army to invade Rockhome. Agents of Aphastes have tipped him off about the future (Aphastes tends to create "an earthquake" with his groundwater powers and release Denwarf, when his own invasion takes place. This might yet remove one dangerous enemy. But this will happen in 5-6 years�) WENDAR This confederacy of wilder elves and Thyatian settlers is still recovering from the conflict with the Shadowlord. Half-elven king Gyharen will probably sympathise with the Darokinians. But the best guess is that he'll see the involvement of his duke Yuri Turambar in the Darokinian diplomatic effort a good enough involvement from Wendar. HELDANN During this time Heldann is a loose confederacy of freeholders and independent lords. Heldann suffered greatly from the recent civil war and the attack of the Hulagu Khan's forces, so it won't involve in the war directly. However, if the Ethengarians are weakened enough, some Heldannian forces might yet try to extract revenge on the Uighurs. The Heldann League will most likely to try and assassinate Chanai before he gains Great Khanhood (Note: The silvery dwarf Flint, who will be one of the Darokinian ambassadors, will have a hard situation is he happens to be in Ethengar during these events. He has made a pact with the League a long time ago, and part-took in a bloody massacre of a small Bortak tribe.) ETHENGAR Backed by the Agents of the Master, Chanai of the Murkit tribe will try to become the next Great Khan during the war. His first action would be to declare a full-scale assault on Glantri. The Brotherhood of the Bolt will be a great asset then, especially if the Ethengarians try to breach the Skullhorn Pass. Most of the tribes will stand together with Chanai, even though some tribal clashes may cause some trouble. Batu of the Bortaks won't play ball, to everyone's great surprise. The most untalented and cowardly of all Khans invaded and annexed the Kiyat lands just a few years ago, so he controls two hordes now. In addition to that a group of Makistani militants has joined him, as Batu promised the lands of the Kiyats to them if he becomes the new Great Khan. Batu has also forged alliances with the Sliktor orcs and hooplak hobgoblins. If Batu wins Chanai, he'll grant the humanoids whole of the western Ethengar, thus getting a convenient buffer zone against the Glantrians. He doesn't for a minute believe that Ethengarians can succeed in the Glantri invasion, and is probably right. (Note: The Ethengarian hordes aren't so strong as in the Gazetteers, as the strong leadership of Moglai doesn't exist.) Batu also has an extra card in his sleeve: a mutual military aid pact with the duke of Estine, Ivan Ivanovich. If Ivan respects the pact during the war, his crack troops and possibly those of his neighbours the silvery dwarves of the Red Fangs will be very valuable against Chanai. Who knows, possibly Yuri Turambar will force march his elven cavalry to assist from Wendar? VESTLAND This kingdom is ruled by King Tenitar, a staunch follower of the Forsettian faith. He will follow the council of his close friend Ivan Ivanovich. Vestland can't obviously send troops directly against the Master, but perhaps an assault on Ylaruam might be in order. OSTLAND This powerful seagoing nation is a close ally of Thyatis, and thus it will be practically impossible to king Olaf Cnute to get involved in the war directly. Then again, he's greatly in debt to Ivan Ivanovich, who saved his life, killed his dark sister Ala the Seawitch and helped him in the Ostmann rebellion. He might "coincidentally" start a raiding campaign against enemies of Darokin, and possibly give some Ravenguard to them as bodyguards etc. SODERFJORD As usual, the Soderfjordians are in disarray. The relations with Vestland are a bit strained, but not enough to start a war. When it comes to the war, they are a wild card, albeit a weak one. YLARUAM Ylaruam has been ruled by the militant Kin faction for some years now. Sultan Ali-Ben Faizal (the Wise or the Fool) eyes hungrily at Selenica, which he considers Ylaruamian territory. He has been already contacted by Hosadus, and will join his side in the coming war, very early on. The Preceptors have been driven underground, and will not pose a significant threat. Barimoor isn't any longer around, he vanished after the Time of Withdrawal. Other tempting lines of invasion might be Thyatis, if Selenica is conquered, or Soderfjord. The latter will prove difficult for mounted armies, though. THYATIS After the demise of its southern colonial legions Thyatis isn't so keen on engaging in a costly conflict. They have enough trouble in reconsolidating their imperial power elsewhere. But if the war goes badly for the Ylaruamians, the Emperor is sure to send his mainland legions to gain the old colonies back. ROCKHOME King Everast has very friendly relations with all of his neighbouring states, so the war will be a pickle for him. Although he wants, really wants, to support the Darokinians, their valued marketing area, siding with Alfheimians will be a hard nut to crack. If he joins the war, his first objective would strategically be to cut the Ylaruam invasion towards Selenica. But this would disrupt the good relations with the Ylaruamians. One possibility is to wage "a gentleman's war": cut the supply lines in the mountains but let the Ylaruamians pass back home if they understand what's good for them. There's an internal crisis, too. Frost giants have gathered together and are no doubt beginning to construct the legendary Jotunheim. The giants have allied with the Master. If they are defeated and this connection revealed, the course for Rockhome is clear. KARAMEIKOS Karameikos has recovered phenomenally from the near- civil war two years ago. The Elvenguard has been strengthened, and the Military command decided to modernise the armies and augment them with cavalry forces. (Note: The army won't be so strong as X10 suggests, as the forces of Kelven suffered greatly during the Hazar incident, and Luln is no longer standing.) The Black Eagle barony has formed an alliance with the Master, and a civil war is imminent. Two Desert Nomad legions have been shipped there with captured Minrothadian and Ierendian ships, and supplemented with local humanoid forces. Now von Hendricks has the first real chance to beat Stephan. But he is convinced that Bargle will try to overthrow him during the war. To get out of this danger he has gathered a number of ex-Iron Ring slaves that he "forgot" to set free, as the peace treaty with Stephan would have dictated. He's planning to blackmail some Karameikan heroes into assassinating Bargle. THE FIVE SHIRES Well, the halflings are sure to back up their friends the Darokinians. But right now they are having a lot of trouble with a legion of spectres sent by Hosadus. Unless the undead fiends are eliminated, the Shires are forced to stay neutral. The spectres have also located a part of the Crystal dagger of Cymorrak, a powerful artefact that was crafted to battle the powers of Thanatos on Mystara. (Note: Cymorrak is an ancient god of warfare, and an old enemy of Thanatos. He is worshipped in Thyatis, but traces of his worship can be found in the Shires and Alfheim, tracing back from the last nomad war.) ALFHEIM The elven king will surely join Darokin in the war. He is old enough to remember the last Nomad War, or at least his father/mother told him about it. He is well aware of the Thanatos connection. But early on during the war, the magics of Hosadus will disrupt the Bad Magic Points in the Forest and temporarily divert the attention of the elves. If the Darokinian ambassadors will aid the elves in this crisis, the elven king will be sure to reward them with an alliance. (Note: Another part of the Crystal Dagger is in the Tomb of Alevar that will be invaded by an ancient green dragon, a close ally of Hosadus.) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 05:55:37 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: marten finlator Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Angelo: Not to worry. What applies to obscure Dennis Miller or Mystery Science Theater 3000 references holds for OD&D as well, namely, that it doesn't matter HOW MANY people get it, only that THE RIGHT people get it. OD&D is like a fine vintage wine -- rare, not necessarily in wide circulation, but savored by those in the know. Marten Finlator --- Angelo Bertolli wrote: > Some of the conversations have begun to worry me > about the future of OD&D. > How many other people still love OD&D (such as > myself) on this list? > > Please, we must keep it alive for future generations > so they're offered more > than 3E. > > Angelo __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 16:09:46 +0300 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Ville V Lahde Subject: Darokinian ambassadors I In-Reply-To: <200105240705.f4O753626812@uta.fi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT "The Twin Campaigns" during the Nomad Invasion The Cast: the future Darokinian wartime ambassadors Ville L�hde Note about the titles: In addition to the titles mentioned, the characters have also honorary titles in Vestland, Wendar and Minrothad. IVAN IVANOVICH: (Fighter 12), Court Lord of Karameikos, Duke of Estine, Vestland Appearance: A very tall man for a Traladaran. Strong muscles. Face hardened during travel and hundreds of battles. Dresses in plate mail. He carries the helmet of Rak'Asta, with a lion-like visor, and the sword of Rak'Asta, a scimitar made from the tooth of a dragon. Ivan is a former resident of Karameikos, who was born into a very poor family in the small hamlet of Verge. His father was a drunkard who bet up his mother whenever he had the time to stumble back from the village pub. The mother, a gentle weaver, raised Ivan and his sister in midst of this as well as she could. Her main goal was to get the children away from their father as fast as possible, and she succeeded. Ivan became a mercenary and his sister an apprentice of Lady Halia Antonic. Ivan joined a group of adventurers when they together fled from a prison in the borderlands of the Black Eagle Barony. Since then he lived on the road with his comrades, although he never could develop any strong emotions of friendship with them. This may have something to do with the fact that he used to decorate himself into battle with to wolf-legtraps slung on his shoulders and a warmask crafted from an elven skull. Well, he never was a people person. When he revisited Verge to investigate the disappearance of the Antonics, the first thing he did was to beat the living daylights from his father and give his mother enough money to retire to Specularum. All this changed when Ivan become the new incarnation of the ancient king Rak'Asta. Although his disposition in regular matters hasn't improved, he is a much more convincing speaker when it comes to military tactics and leadership. He dropped the grim decorations and started preferring milk, raw fish and sleeping in sunlight, purring softly. In battle he hissed like a cat. He dislikes dogs very much (Actually he used to have a dog, but Yuri Turambar threw it overboard their ship in the middle of the Sea of Dread.) During his adventures in Vestland he saved the king Tenitar and became the Duke of Estine after the traitorous Vana Cullen. Now he is also the Protector of northern borderlands. His leadership has benefited the dominion, especially raiding has been successful. He has started mining for iron ore in the southern hills, and also has made a secret pact with sea elves. He trades metal objects for pearls. Ivan's military force is formidable, especially the crew of his longship the Redraven. His close followers include Tedmusin, an Ethengarian hakomon; Olaf, an Ostlandian fighter; Rolf, the commander of northern outriders; and Leonidas, a cleric of the Lion God. He has a long-standing love affair with Ariannaid, the silver dragon/Hinterlandian Aurakia worshipper. --- YURI TURAMBAR (Thief 13), Court Lord of Karameikos, Duke of Western Wendar Borderlands (self-made title: The Master of Destiny) Appearance: A short and sly individual, looks like a regular Traladaran. Extremely agile and dexterous. He likes to show off his wealth whenever he can. During travel he wears elven clothes crafted from strong leaves. Uses a leather armour and carries the legendary thief sword "the Backstabber". Yuri was born into a relatively wealthy merchant family in the human community near Highforge. His childhood seemed promising, if not his tendency to sneak a peek at naked wenches and steal his father's proceeds. After an especially heated encounter with his father over a botched deal, Yuri was promptly thrown out. He wandered for a while until he befriended the elves of Rifflian and was "adopted". He got his name "Turambar" from them. However, his desire for mundane goods didn't suit well with the elven way of life and he moved after a few years to Treshold. There he met a group of adventurers who were looking for a recruit after losing an elven companion due to internal clashes. This started a long adventuring career, during which he joined the Kingdom of Thieves in Specularum. With Ivan Ivanovich he opened the best bar/brothel in the city. The establishment now functions as the HQ for the thieves. But Karameikos proved to be too small for Yuri, and he continued his adventuring career. In Thanegioth Archipelago he met his wife Cymoril Stargazer (they have a child now, the first true half-elf ever in Mystara). After the Shadowlord incident he became a duke in the realm of Wendar. In his further adventurers he managed to gain a powerful enemy, the Master thief Danakhriss. The two thieves clashed numerous times, the last time over the sword "Backstabber", which Yuri extracted from the lair of the beholder Azaziel. Forces by a manifestation of Asterius the two thieves made later a peace treaty which gave Yuri the control of Wendar, Heldann and the free city of Freiburg. Now he has built a strong network of thieves, that engages mainly in prostitution, drug trafficking and high-risk burglary. To his good luck his companions haven't found out his yet. He is very very � very rich, and rules his dominion not with an iron fist, but with a strong bureaucracy. With the help of the elven clan "the Seekers" he has built strong forces to guard the border against the inevitable assault of Aphastian armies. His close followers include: Matvey, a thief lieutanant (son of Pyotr from Sukiskyn, Karameikos); Miles O'Brien, a thief lieutenant (Hinterlander, defector from the guild of Danakhriss); Ethrigan, a thief-merchant in Freiburg; Shiva, a kapak draconian. ----- ALEXANDER PENHALIGON (Cleric 14), Court lord of Karameikos, Patriarch of the Church of Traladara, "Son of Halav", the Protector of Karameikos, and lord of Krakataos. Appearance: A man of purely Traladaran stock (see later). Not very appealing, even when it comes to personality. Wields the mace of Petra (the head is shaped into a Traldar head imprisoned into a cage), dresses in the Platemail of Halav (a picture of Taranis and Thanatos emalled in the breastplate), and the helmet of Zirchev (a jackal-skin headpiece). Of mixed Traladaran and Thyatian blood, Alexander (of Alex for short) was born in Kelven as a son of a soldier and a potter. He joined the group of adventurers in Kelven, after their long-time friend Kiril Petrevich from the Cult of Halav retired to Sulescu. Alexander was an ardent follower of the teachings of the Church of Traladara. Infuriatingly so, as his manners and dispositions are not suited for the priestly work. A modern metaphor for his ministerial skills is an over-enthusiastic and bad car-salesman. Alex's career changed suddenly, when he learned of the true history of his people in the Lost Valley of Hutaakans. The fabled skills in the Golden Age were learned from filthy jackal-breed, not from the gods. A bigger shock was when he found the tomb of Halav from Krakataos. Fortunately he was contacted by Taranis, who set some things straight in his head. During the following long adventuring years he seemed always to be a bit lost. But this all changed during his experiences with the cult of Hazar and the Iron Ring in 1009. He found the three lost artefacts of the Traladaran heroes and managed to gain a lot of allies with surprisingly good diplomacy. After saving the whole of Karameikos from Hazar he started building a new temple in Krakataos (still using the Halav front for Taranis, as the time for truth hasn't come yet). He rules a small dominion of ex-slaves and Traladaran militants who were given amnesty by Staphan. His trusted ally Kiril Petrevich does most of the practical matters, as he is much better with people. Alex has a lot of close friends and allies in Karameikos and beyond, including: Retameron and Halia Antonic, Lord Zemiros Sulescu, Admiral Hyraksos, Aleena Halaran, Nipa Goodhearted (a Striker from Shires), the werebear Pooh and a Chevall in Riverfork, Dmitri Torenescu, Sascia of Rugalov, Lord Mildahil of Radlebb elves, and Estaish, commander of Elvenguard. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 16:10:31 +0300 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Ville V Lahde Subject: Darokinian ambassadors II In-Reply-To: <200105240705.f4O753626812@uta.fi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT FLINT FIREFORGE (Silvery Dwarf 12), Court lord of Karameikos, a Protector of Heldann, Lord of Gyl Erid. Appearance: Very muscular dwarf. Usually has a smile on his lips, and a goodhearted/stupid stare in his eyes. He has strands of silver in his hair and beard. Dresses in a chain mail made from living silver, and wields a living silver battleaxe. Bathes only infrequently, drinks quite much (usually potent spirits made from mushrooms). An all-around nice guy, if you don't mind the splattered blood that usually follows his trail. Flint is an original member of the team and has survived miraculously the twelve years of bloody adventuring. He seems to have born under lucky stars, or more likely under a lucky moon, as his race was crated by the Moon God, the Silvery One. Flint was born in the Crystalmist Mountains in Larta, but due to his innate� well, stupidity, he didn't fare well in the religious culture bent on looking for living silver and crafting it. Thus he left his home and joined with Radagast Emry, who became his best friend. Together they faced the horrors in the caverns of Aphastes. Flint has seen too many friends die by his side, but this hasn't damaged his basic good disposition. His one big sorrow was always the lack of mate or any sexual life for that matter (especially when he was once duped by a female halfling prostitute in disquise). During his long years of adventuring Flint never could find much meaning in life except in a bottle, a dining table and in the heat of battle. His lack of home was the only reason he could go on adventuring, as Radagast was the only thing that reminded him of his lost home. He harbours a bitter hatred for Aphastes who destroyed his home and robbed his race of the sacred living silver. The turning point in his life was the shipwreck of a group of silvery dwarves on the shores of Vestland. With Ivan Flint rescued them from old Modrigsverd caverns and a group of Aphastes followers. With them was Dalin, a learned cleric of the Moon God. Together they found the last deposit of living silver under the Red Fangs in Heldann and established a colony in Gyl Erid, the former citadel of Gylgarid followers. Flint was also happy to form a relationship and get married with a beautiful silvery dwarf maiden M�ll� (� is pronounced a bit like "u" in "burn"). Now Flint rules over a rag-tag colony of a few silvery dwarves, some drunkard dwarves from Specularum, and a host of social outcasts from Norrvik and Rhoona. He is also a Protector of nearby freeholders, who pay him tribute for military expenses. Flint has made an uneasy deal with the Heldann Leagua, but is thinking about ditching them. Butchering children isn't his cup of tea. Right now Flint's colony is engaged on building an underground complex in the naturally formed caves under Gyl Erid and the Red Fangs. He finances this by mining gold (Gaming note: The b**tard actually threw 18 on 3d6 to see what he could mine!). His close followers include: Ragnar, a Vestlandian mage from Uppsala academy, specialising in geology and rock transformation; Benny, a cleric of Forsetti (as an absolutist he has hard time living among 200+ drunkard dwarves), Dalin, dwarf-cleric of the Silvery One; plus a dozen of his trusted and highly experienced dwarf lieutenants from Larta, Norrvik and Specularum. -------- RADAGAST EMRY (Magic-User 12), Resident of the Isle of Hydra, Minrothad. A Stream Mage, Court Lord of Karameikos. Appearance: The only member of the team with any good looks to speak of. Usually wears a red robe. Can behave quite well in usual circumstances, but has a tendency mild egoism when it comes to weighing knowledge and experience (You know, the guy who starts explaining his answers further in Trivial Pursuit). Slightly outlandish features due to his Lartan origins. Nowadays seems to like Ylaruamian style a bit due to his marriage. Also an original member of the team, Radagast was originally your run-of-the-mill wizard. Bad health due to lack of exercise and too much reading, no strength to mention (now he has gauntlets of ogre power), and a sharp mind. His main interest in adventuring was to hoard spells, spell books, money and knowledge in order to become the greatest mage in the world. Like Flint he was a bit of a loner in the sense that his home was on the other side of the world, and Karameikos wasn't actually the haven for wizards. A change in his worldview cane just before he was caught up with his friends in the Chateau D'Amberville. He met an envoy from the Stream Mages, who was looking for fresh recruits. He completed the Test of Wizardry in their Wandering tower and chose the Hydra as his Totem. There he also met Ariannaid the Silver dragon for the first time (see: Ivan Ivanovich). This event seemed to give him a purpose in life again. Another significant event was his encounter with a Ylaruamian female mage Mizra Amalisah, whom he and his friends rescued from the dungeons of the Iron Ring. Mizra was not only a mage, but also a recruit of the Stream Mages. During the following years mutual professional admiration transformed into love and fondness. The couple has a son, and another will soon be coming. After he and his friends solved the mystery of the War Rafts in Minrothad, Radagast was granted an island prophetically (?) called the Isle of the Hydra (The group has continuously received hints of a coming era of world history, called "the Age of Hydra".) He and Mizra settled there and built a power of learning. Their cosy living was interrupted soon, however. The council of the Stream Mages sent them on a long quest to find the lost power of the Magical Streams. They set out on a long voyage to Pramayana, Slagovich, the jungles of the Serpent Peninsula, Hinterlands, Ochalea, Thanegioth Archipelago, and finally the new location of the Global Magical Axis. From there they travelled to the another pole via the magical current and battled followers of Atzanteotl to save the local Stream Mages and their hogboblin tribes. His experiences during this voyage changed Radagast very much. In Thanegioth archipelago he personally sunk two troop transports full of young Thyatian legionaires, and has had to live with this deed since. The trek round the Sea of Dread and the new global viewpoint put his own powers in a new perspective. Although he still occasionally whines about the small monetary rewards a wizard gets in this world compared to thieves and lords, and grieves after each empties wand, he is still a much more sombre man, with a sense of the world and his place in it. His close followers include: Two Minrothadian mercenaries who followed him and Mizra during their quest; Dirlindan-Din, an elven wizard, a hobgoblin Stream Mage apprentice, and a group of pupils from the undersea triton kingdom. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 09:39:37 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind > >>Getting this to Mystara, has anyone out there concocted an "Illuminated" >>Mystara campaign? > >Well, you li'l stinkers forced my hand once again! So without further >ado, I present my unfinished, unedited masterpiece: Very interesting! Please post this to the MML when you get the chance (when it's done). :) Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 09:49:22 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D > >Some of the conversations have begun to worry me about the future of OD&D. >How many other people still love OD&D (such as myself) on this list? > >Please, we must keep it alive for future generations so they're offered more >than 3E. > >Angelo I still use OD&D for my campaign, and have no plans on changing anytime soon. The system offers me the flexibility I need to get things done quickly, and to focus on the storyline (though I use Weapon Mastery and Skills, the extra work required to keep track of this is minimal). Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 07:49:14 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Crossovers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That sounds cool Ville, is that the only character of repute you use? Can = you send me a list of other cool things she has done in you campaign? IMC = she has done very little except be a bodyguard most of the time for Lord = Nightbay. Soth on the other hand is in charge of the Assassins who = overwatch the legions. He is in charge of conducting investigations and = inquisitions. Verminaard doesn't do too much either. He usually oversees = general's during war campaigns and gleans information by flying his red = dragon over opposing armies. And of course Strahd is always bickering with = the other two councilors on who is more loyal to Nightbay. Of course = Wolslazny has a government to back up his claims ( a little bit anyway). By the way, does anybody have Minotaurs in their campaigns?And no, I am = not talking about those winged ones that were mentioned in one of the = Dragon Issues. And if so, where in the KW? JK Wolf >>> skvila@UTA.FI 05/25/01 01:12AM >>> Well, as you might have noticed, the "Twin campaigns" uses a lot of material from Krynn (draconians, Chemos). IMC Kitiara is also one important figure. She met Ivan Ivanovich during the basic adventures and was with the PCs all way through Chateau D'Amberville. Now she is a general in the armies of Aphastes, which Ivan is well aware of. This is one more remnant from, oh, 1989 or something. but it still seems to work ok. I'm looking for the day when Ivan and Kitiara fight it out. Kitiara riding a great black dragon of Idris, Ivan his new "girlfriend", Ariannaid the silver dragon/Hinterlander Aurakia follower. Ville ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 07:50:55 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tomcats? Ulp! Are you referring to F-14's?????????????Yikes!!!!! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 11:00:07 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" I have been playing OD&D for over 20 years, the rules are so much a part of my play that they are hard to get away from. Mainly I have always been a DM in the Mystara Campaign, while I played a character in AD&D 1st & 2nd ed. This way I would not have any DM knowledge of their campaign settings; and since most of my players kept buying all the new products for their campaigns in Greyhawk or Lankmar et. they could not buy information on my Mystaran campaign. This worked out rather well until I married, had kids, and moved out of state. Now that I have a little time (my wife lets me out for one night a week) I found a new 3ed product line that everyone wanted to play. I posted my wish to begin an OD&D Mystara Campaign, and got 2 players (and they never really played any other system to know the difference). Then I broke down and bought the rules for 3ed (again, my wife gave me permission to pack lunch for a month, instead of eating out with my staff) Now I had up to 12 players playing a rather chaotic game as they know the new rules more than me (but the DM still has sway, as I can always say "it's a Mystaran Goblin, it can do that!" I still miss the ease of rules I am familiar with, but now I am just converting more and more to 3ed, to make it my own game as a blend of the best of both worlds. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 07:59:04 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok, I still use the OD&D modules but I use 2ed rules (more fun! IMO) = Anyway what I want to know is how hard is it to convert 3E back to 2E? Is = it just an elimination of some of the NPC and Monster stats? or do I need = to break out a calculator?=20 :) JK wolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 11:16:24 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" IMC I also had to do some drastic changes to balance the campaign until I learned all the new rules (some players know all the new min/max techniques very well). I separated the 2 most powerful min/maxers to the Hollow World, then reincarnated the rest of the party and sent them 370 years in the past (a Ylari Faris decided to make fate and gave them a map to a dwarven time machine, it reincarnates the individuals in an effort to prevent paradox). Rather drastic indeed, but everyone is happy. Plus now the party that started as 2 elves, 2 humans, a dwarf, and a hin; are now an elf, a human, a wolf, a badger, a pixie and a sprite. Oddly enough the dwarf turned into a badger and is rather pleased in the result. Also the players are all naked in a grassy plain, and shouting to each other to try and find out who is who, with the badger experimenting on his new found dexterity (he will never leave home again :0) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 08:18:54 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Matthew Wang Subject: Re: Castle Defenses In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Angelo, I totally remember that issue. It was a great issue with good articles and maps. I have it at home somewhere and will try to find the issue number for you this morning. Matt --- Angelo Bertolli wrote: > Speaking of such defensives, I was wondering if > anyone remembers which issue > of Dragon Magazine had details on how castles could > become more defensive vs > certain attacks that did not occur during Earth's > middle ages. (Such as > massive magic and air attacks, wizards teleporting, > walking on water over > moats, etc.) I remember reading the article, and it > was great. > > Angelo > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 08:24:47 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Mystara stuff on list for ESD continuation! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can anyone tell me HOW they charge for downloading? I'm not familiar with = this. Thanks! JK Wolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 18:30:04 +0300 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Saarela Sami Subject: VS: [MYSTARA] Mystara stuff on list for ESD continuation! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT The short version: AFAIK you pay with a credit card etc. online payment method. They send you (by e-mail) a smll program that when activated downloads the product you purchased. - Sami > ---------- > L�hett�j�: Joe Kelly[SMTP:joe_kelly@DAVIS.CA] > Vastaa: Mystara RPG Discussion > L�hetetty: 25. toukokuuta 2001 18:24 > Vastaanottaja: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Aihe: Re: [MYSTARA] Mystara stuff on list for ESD continuation! > > Can anyone tell me HOW they charge for downloading? I'm not familiar with > this. Thanks! > > JK Wolf > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 11:36:52 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Castles and Economics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" When they slowed down the VotPA in the Dragon Magazine articles, Bruce Heard made some great articles on Castles and Fantasy economics. I wish I knew which issues they were originally published in, he also wrote a good article on heraldry that can also be found in one of the Campaign Log Books. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 18:46:25 +0300 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Saarela Sami Subject: VS: Castle Defenses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Issue #224; December 1995. At least according to http://members.tripod.com/~Mythal/drmag-220.html Cheers, - Sami > ---------- > L�hett�j�: Matthew Wang[SMTP:mattwang97@YAHOO.COM] > Vastaa: Mystara RPG Discussion > L�hetetty: 25. toukokuuta 2001 18:18 > Vastaanottaja: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Aihe: Re: [MYSTARA] Castle Defenses > > Angelo, > > I totally remember that issue. It was a great issue > with good articles and maps. I have it at home > somewhere and will try to find the issue number for > you this morning. > > Matt > > > --- Angelo Bertolli wrote: > > Speaking of such defensives, I was wondering if > > anyone remembers which issue > > of Dragon Magazine had details on how castles could > > become more defensive vs > > certain attacks that did not occur during Earth's > > middle ages. (Such as > > massive magic and air attacks, wizards teleporting, > > walking on water over > > moats, etc.) I remember reading the article, and it > > was great. > > > > Angelo > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 10:00:44 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Castles and Economics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Christopher: I could look it up on my Dragons CD if you like:) JK Wolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 20:18:48 +0300 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Saarela Sami Subject: VS: [MYSTARA] Castles and Economics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT There are Heard's articles about fantasy economics in Dragons #187 (Nov -92), #189 (Jan -93), #190 (Feb -93) and #191 (Mar -93). Hope this helps. - Sami > ---------- > L�hett�j�: Christopher > Cherrington[SMTP:christopher.cherrington@OVERSEASSERVICE.COM] > Vastaa: Mystara RPG Discussion > L�hetetty: 25. toukokuuta 2001 18:36 > Vastaanottaja: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Aihe: Re: [MYSTARA] Castles and Economics > > When they slowed down the VotPA in the Dragon Magazine articles, Bruce > Heard > made some great articles on Castles and Fantasy economics. I wish I knew > which issues they were originally published in, he also wrote a good > article > on heraldry that can also be found in one of the Campaign Log Books. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 18:12:06 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: jason o'brien Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have sent my players to the four corners of the outer an inner worlds as well as the outer planes and space.i have used a large amount of net products. Mortus. > Gilles Leblanc wrote: > > > > > But what about what I originally said about how many poeple base their > > campaigns or travels away from KW and SC and also how many poeple use net > > products ? > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 18:13:21 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: jason o'brien Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Some of the conversations have begun to worry me about the future of OD&D. > How many other people still love OD&D (such as myself) on this list? > Me. Its the only FRPG I play on a regular bassis. Mortus. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 18:17:20 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: jason o'brien Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > Please, we must keep it alive for future generations so they're offered more > > than 3E. > > Why? Pre-Newtonian math might be good too, for its time... Don't get me > wrong, I loved it when it came out and I still love the setting- but I find > clinging to rulesets as strange as doing my math with a sliderule when I have > a perfectly good calculator available. Because of it's simplicity, and ease of use. when i play i dont want to be bogged down by rules. i have played rolemaster, and various other rulesets between these two extremes, and find i prefer OD&D. as do my players. i like the other systems too, but prefer OD&D. Mortus. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:32:46 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No, I am referring to the fighters from Top Ballista. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Kelly" To: Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] A simple question from a simple mind Tomcats? Ulp! Are you referring to F-14's?????????????Yikes!!!!! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:17:18 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Modules A1- A4 Comments: To: MYSTARA-L@.WIZARDS.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has anybody played these modules? and can anyone give me a plot synopsis? = I want to Incorporate my Drow into this adventure. Where does it take = place for instance? Thanks! JK Wolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:22:08 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Eric Anondson Subject: Re: Modules A1- A4 > Has anybody played these modules? and can anyone give me a > plot synopsis? I want to Incorporate my Drow into this adventure. I have played in them. Always been a blast. > Where does it take place for instance? Greyhawk. In a near lawless region called the Wild Coast and The Pomarj. During the period the adventure is set, there are no major powers, but in the current Greyhawk timeline the region has been divided between the City of Greyhawk and the Orcish Empire of Turrosh Mak. It would probably work best somewhere on the Isle of Dawn, maybe somewhere in the Savage Coast region too. Eric Anondson ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:27:04 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Modules A1- A4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Eric can you give me the plot? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:50:44 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Brendan Corliss Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D In-Reply-To: <011e01c0e540$e840c380$0fdb869f@pbncomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have three points to make about the OD&D/3E thread: 1) The bottom line is that it is personal preference. I can espouse the virtues of one over the other, but when all is said and done, it's not really a scientific debate. And that's OK. D&D is a *game* and the only real goal is to have fun. Obviously, it's possible to have fun with any version of the rules. I think it comes down to DM'ing style, preference, & familiarity. That said, I do have two other comments that may seem to contradict that. Also, it's not my intention to offend anyone... I'm just making observations. 2) I find a satisfying irony with the release of 3E. After many years as a proponent of OD&D, I got rather sick of certain (definitely not all) AD&D2 proponents who went on and on about how I was "playing an outdated game that was meant for kids". They said "*serious* gamers play 2nd Ed". Of course, now, those same people sound like a bad imitation of the OD&D crowd from years ago. "Why should I switch now? I'm perfectly happy with the rules the way they are... newer is not always better". Now, I'm not about speaking anyone on this list, so I hope no one here takes that personally. But I think it's a sort of Karma for those elitist AD&D2 folks out there. 3) Even though I've been a champion of OD&D over the years, I've finally made the switch to 3E. Why? Because after finally giving it a fair shake, I personally think it's even easier than OD&D. I know some people disagree with that and that's cool. I'm not going to tell anyone they're wrong. However, I would like to tell you why I think it's easier... once you get used it. The main thing is the consistency. I think we can all agree (assuming familiarity w/ 3E) that the 3E rules are *very* consistent. One example: Higher is better, whether it's AC or a Saving Throw or a Skill Check. Also, look at XP/Level charts. Or don't, they're the same for every class... how cool is that? I think they've done a good job of balancing the classes so that they can advance at the same rate. The other thing I like, and this doesn't have anything to do with ease per se, is that, in 3E, it's actually reasonable to play a Human... or a Fighter for that matter! Finally, the game mechanics match the settings where most of the most powerful NPC's are... HUMAN! And they didn't have to resort to artificial barriers like level limits. OK, sure, 3E does have "more" rules. But I think that they are much easier to learn and remember. Once you get playing, I think the rules are less of an issue because they're consistent. And nothing helps make a game run smoothly like consistency. Personally, I think 3E has integrated all the best features of OD&D and AD&D2 to make it, *IMO*, the ideal evolution of my favorite game. Of course, the quality of the DM probably makes the biggest difference in a gaming group. I've played and DM'd in campaigns that have used all three versions of the rules. Fortunately, most of the DM's I've played with have been pretty darn good. But those who weren't... well, let's just say that the rules were the least of our worries. But then, this is another topic altogether... Anyway, just my two Daros worth. Brendan Corliss Corliss Enterprises, Ltd. Darokin City (aka Damon Alexander Brown) ===== May all your endeavors be Gold! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 13:29:36 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Lincoln Simoni Subject: Mystara3E vs OD&D MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Preserving? What are we talking about, the game world, or the rules themselves? You know, you can play D&D any way you like, and it's not going to be the rules that make it a great experience. Sure, you need mechanics and rules and the like, but in the end it doesn't matter if I use a tube of d10s or a set of polyhedrals to decide whether my character makes it up the treasury walls... OD&D/AD&D/AD&D2e/3E... don't sweat the small stuff, I say. The only reason I converted is so I could play with people besides my small circle of friends once in a while. Let's face it: times change, and it's already been said how we play a "living" game. Let's "live" with it, shall we? We all want Mystara to survive, but it hasn't been a maintained game world for years and we're all still devoted. Who's to say buying up a 3E set of rulebooks and applying them to Mystara would ruin everything? Lincoln M. Simoni __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 13:43:39 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dave Keyser Organization: Palmchip Subject: Re: Air Forces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dan Eustace wrote: > > I am not aware of any easy countermeasures to such things other than > > skyships or similar air forces. > > Some places could have magical anti-aircraft, like a blight belcher or > meteor swarm cannon with a high altitude range. For non-magical anti-aircraft, large modified ballistas would suffice, ones which could point up and fire in a 90 degree arc/radius. Make it large enough, and it would be the bane for any flying living thing, magical or not. It would be much less effective against flying vessels, but something equivalent with flameable oil might work. Dave Keyser ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 13:56:02 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: marten finlator Subject: Re: Modules A1- A4 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mystarans: A question. Could one theoretically place these modules, or at least module A1, in Karameikos? I've been thinking of assuming the Slavers to be Iron Ring, and maybe setting A1 in the Malpheggi Swamp, for instance. Reactions? Thanks, Marten --- Eric Anondson wrote: > > Has anybody played these modules? and can anyone > give me a > > plot synopsis? I want to Incorporate my Drow into > this adventure. > > I have played in them. Always been a blast. > > > Where does it take place for instance? > > Greyhawk. In a near lawless region called the Wild > Coast and The > Pomarj. During the period the adventure is set, > there are no major > powers, but in the current Greyhawk timeline the > region has been > divided between the City of Greyhawk and the Orcish > Empire of > Turrosh Mak. > > It would probably work best somewhere on the Isle of > Dawn, maybe > somewhere in the Savage Coast region too. > > > Eric Anondson > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 14:37:37 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Matthew Wang Subject: Night of the Vampire Conversion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I just checked out Eric Noah's D&D Site and in today's update, there is a 3E conversion of Night of the Vampire. I haven't checked it out, but I thought you guys should know about it. Matt Wang __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 15:15:03 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Adventures in Ardelphia? Comments: To: MYSTARA-L@.WIZARDS.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I want to do a campaign adventure in Ardelphia. I have the gazetteer that = mentions it but it's just too brief. has anyone done adventures there?=20 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 23:48:57 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Paul Benfield Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D In-Reply-To: <10.d5b6c15.283f7d21@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I've played all three games in this discussion - OD&D (not since the early 90s), AD&D (for nearly 10 years) and now 3e. I suppose it depends on what your players want collectively. For the majority of my gaming years we played AD&D because as a group we preferred the variety of those rules. Now I live in a different city and have started introducing new players to roleplaying. I run a one-on-one campaign at the moment and that player much prefers 3e to AD&D. For him AD&D was a rules system full of inconsistences and illogical exceptions. Of course this applies equally to OD&D as the core mechanics for both are pretty much identical (roll low for ability checks and skills, roll high for hit rolls and saving throws). I'm not saying 3e is better than either system, but it is a consistent rule base, almost everything is a d20 roll; higher the better. At least this makes it easier for new players to come to the game. My and my friends from my old group always took the OD&D and AD&D rules for granted, it is only now through the eyes of an newcomer that the wierd inconsistences in the rules have become obvious. Having played AD&D and 3e he made a clear decision that he wanted to play 3e. Although 3e can be viewed as a way of getting us all to spend out on another set of rules, it could also be said that it is a simpler core set of rules than OD&D or AD&D. If the new rules are easier to learn and have fewer gaps that lead to destructive 'rule lawyer' arguements then it must be good for the hobby and thus good for Mystara. Paul.B on 25/5/01 10:17 am, Heard James at Dunlendor@AOL.COM wrote: > In a message dated 5/25/2001 4:02:22 AM Central Daylight Time, > abertoll@HOTMAIL.COM writes: > > >> >> That's only because there's no argument that a calculator is an improvement. >> Some might disagree with you in D&D. I mean, a calculator makes things >> easier to do. Well, if that's your criteria, OD& > > Only when you've been using OD&D or AD&D forever and house ruled and whatnot > everything. I'm sure these sorts of things will pop up eventually, but 3E > seems remarkably resilient to breakage and the folks at WOTC have been fairly > forthcoming with information related to some of those decisions that seemd > more of flavor and not mechanics (such as alignments and multiclassing issue > with Paladins and Monks). Actually, in simplicity's favor 3E is much more > like OD&D than AD&D. It just doesn't have those strange old system > restrictions enforced in place that were made for the sake of game balance 20 > years ago. I'm not ragging OD&D, I'm just saying that 3E seems able to take > every house rule I've ever made in a home campaign in stride or make them > redundant. The calculator is an improvement because it makes life easier, but > I'm sure a few folks stubbornly clung to slide rules because they were more > familiar with them at first. I think the only issues I have with the whole > Mystara 3E project are my doubts that we're trying to force an OD&D model > upon 3E instead of forcing a Mystaran model on 3E. Oh well, everybody likes > their peculiar brands of cake too. > > JMH > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 01:04:20 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: Modules A1- A4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A1 would fit OK in Karameikos, you just need a ruined city in some wilderness more-or-less removed area (Black Egle Barony would work good, as Hendricks encouraged humanoid groups, any mountain or hill area way north would do too). Then you can take A2 inwards into the mountain nobody's land between Karameikos and Darokin... A3 and A4 would need much remodelling, though. Andr�s ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 16:28:45 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind On Fri, 25 May 2001 01:55:57 -0000, Gilles Leblanc wrote: >Well I tought that by posting some Mystara DMing related question, we would >get away from all those off topic debates and rants, but seems I was >mistaken.... ( penny falling question ). > You might as well give up - this is one battle you won't win! :) >But what about what I originally said about how many poeple base their >campaigns or travels away from KW and SC and also how many poeple use net >products ? > IMC we're currently playing through WOTI, so we're naturally staying mostly in the known world area, though we have had adventures in Alphatia and HW, too (and I plan another in Alphatia in the near future). Generally I don't have a problem letting people travel Mystara, but there are advantages to staying in the known world region because the background is far more detailed - if people go to, say, Skothar, they will most likely ask me what sort of people live there and what their history is, which I then have to establish myself (although some people on the MA are working hard to establish such background. They aren't quite finished yet, though). Sure, I could make up my own nations and backgrounds in Mystara, but then why bother playing Mystara at all? If I don't use the established nations and areas, there is no reason to tie my campaign to Mystara, I think. That's my take, at least. - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 16:37:02 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind On Thu, 24 May 2001 23:19:21 -0400, SteelAngel wrote: >On Thu, 24 May 2001, The Stalker wrote: > >> Why do you think we Alphatians researched the spell "Continual Invisible >> Metal Umbrella" ? > >And why the Thyatians developed the portable lightning storm maker. > And we then made our "Lightning-Reflecting Screen" to add to the former spell! ZAP!! :) - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 19:54:11 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm all for OD&D too. Too much time invested in an almost 20 year old campaign to convert all over to something that none of us know. That's not to say that I wouldn't try 3E in someone else's game. Actually, I'd be intersted to see what it's like. BTW, speaking of weapon mastery I have some house rules that I use to balance out the advantage that it gives to fighters. Someday I'll post the whole the system, but basically, spell casters get to use their INT bonus per die of damage (up to the max for that die, i.e. can't exceed 6 on a d6), and as a penalty on saves. Then there is spell mastery to improve range, duration, and penalize saves. It works quite well. And 18 INT MUs become that much more powerful, as opposed to only having a whole 3 more languages, wooo hoooo!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Gander" To: Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Mystara3E vs OD&D > > > >Some of the conversations have begun to worry me about the future of OD&D. > >How many other people still love OD&D (such as myself) on this list? > > > >Please, we must keep it alive for future generations so they're offered more > >than 3E. > > > >Angelo > > I still use OD&D for my campaign, and have no plans on changing anytime > soon. The system offers me the flexibility I need to get things done > quickly, and to focus on the storyline (though I use Weapon Mastery and > Skills, the extra work required to keep track of this is minimal). > > Geoff > > -- > Geoff Gander, BA 97 > Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon > Carnifex Loremaster > au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 20:02:02 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: Crossovers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit After thinking about this, I guess I have used some stuff. DL was big when I was designing my campaign history before the GAZs came out. What is now Alphatia was, in the distant past, ruled by an empire of dragons, called Dragonia. It was overthrown by a band of freedom fighters assisted by good dragons from the IoD. The main hero, Arius "Dragonslayer" made use of a potent weapon forged by RockHome dwarves with the assistance of the wizard Zandria, the famed Dragonslayer lance. Later on, this civ, died out (during the fall of Nithia, maybe, I forget) and the Alphatians made Landfall and stated their own empire. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 20:07:15 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: Castles and Economics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris, Bruce's economic info is in the Vaults. I've used the castle stuff, quite abit. I don't remember exactly where, but it shouldn't be too hard to locate. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Cherrington" To: Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 11:36 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Castles and Economics > When they slowed down the VotPA in the Dragon Magazine articles, Bruce Heard > made some great articles on Castles and Fantasy economics. I wish I knew > which issues they were originally published in, he also wrote a good article > on heraldry that can also be found in one of the Campaign Log Books. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 17:06:33 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: Crossovers - minotaurs On Fri, 25 May 2001 07:49:14 -0700, Joe Kelly wrote: (snip) >By the way, does anybody have Minotaurs in their campaigns?And no, I am not talking about those winged ones that were mentioned in one of the Dragon Issues. And if so, where in the KW? > Well, I assume minotaurs exist in the KW as most other monsters do. In fact, one of the PCs IMC is a minotaur. He was taken captive while very young and sold to a harsh Thyatian slaver of Ylari descent and then raised to fight in the arena of Thyatis City. Eventually he earned enough money to buy his freedom (much to the dislike of his owner) and embarked on an adventuring path with a cleric of Ixion who soon became his closest friend. The minotaur is currently a 10th-level fighter, but last time we played he, and the rest of the group, was taken captive by bounty hunters who were hired to bring him back to his old owner. Now, I actually have two groups who play independently of each, though they are in the same timeline and so I allow the characters "switch" between groups now and then. Naturally, I plan to have the other group rescue next time I meet with them (this weekend). When the Master of the Desert Nomads invaded Darokin IMC, he had a bunch of minotaurs on his side who devastated the Darokinian defenses af first, so IMC minotaurs definitely exist in the Sind/Darokin area. I'd imagine there are also a number of them below the Broken Lands. - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 17:33:34 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D On Fri, 25 May 2001 06:36:42 -0000, Angelo Bertolli wrote: >Some of the conversations have begun to worry me about the future of OD&D. >How many other people still love OD&D (such as myself) on this list? > >Please, we must keep it alive for future generations so they're offered more >than 3E. > Well, to tell you the truth I don't really like either system. OD&D has all sorts of odd skills scattered throughout the gazetteers, some of them actually the same skills only based on different abilities, which is quite frustrating, but I really hate some of the changes in 3e. I play 2e with the Player Option books at the moment, and it works fairly well. Even so, 3e is a fact of a role-player's life, and even I have to convert - I can keep it to the rules I want to IMC, of course, but MA-related work requires the use of 3e, as does some other net-projects I'm involved with. Because of that, and because my players are sufficiently curious about 3e, I do intend to make the switch at some point. I'll heavily revise the 3e rules to fit my standards before I do so, though! If you like OD&D, why should you stop using it? Sure, nothing new will be published for it, but then nothing has been published for it for years. Unless the ESD products are converted to 3e (which I seriously doubt), there would actually be a significant amount of OD&D material which you can just download once available. Similarly, I don't plan to just convert my 2e Player Option campaign - I'll just end it and then have the players roll up new 3e characters, but the old characters are still available for us to return to if we want, and I still have some high-level adventures (Return to the Tomb of Horrors, Axe of the Dwarvish Lords, Dragon Mountain, Rod of Seven Parts, Night Below, etc.) to return to if we want to give the old high-level characters another go... - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 17:41:10 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: A very large mercenary force Comments: To: MYSTARA-L@.WIZARDS.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is the mercenary force in my world. Of course, needless to say their = influence is quite extensive.=20 Mercenaries =20 The Skull Legions of Mystara =20 The Skull Legions of Mystara are concentrated in the realms of the Known = World. Each is, in itself is a standing army. The Legions consist of = approx. (at max), 10,000 warriors. They are all overseen by an overlord = (IMC Lord Night Bay) and under him a council of four undead vampires (one = of which is Von Wolslazny). The Generals of each are also answerable to = three Warlords who also act as bodyguards for Night Bay. It is Night Bay's = ambition to join the ranks of the Immortals. Little does he know that if = the Immortals agreed he would be, but none wish him to be joining their = ranks. His power is beyond mere mortals, and the very fact that his = council of Vampires are loyal while remains an unaging human, speaks = untold volumes. Night Bay in the meantime has told his legions to be loyal = to the realms that they sit in, defending it's borders from outside = intrusions. (This has helped King Thar tremendously as he can pillage the = nations around him and be protected by the highly trained Skull Warriors = of his realm). Below are the countries the Legions currently reside in. = Recently, the Emerald Legion of Alfheim has fallen, and others fight for = their very existence as the world shakes with wars.=20 =20 All Legionairres wear the Skull Masks to hide their faces. For they are = considered as dead to the world of common men. Many Skull Legionairres are = ex-slaves, criminals, and nobles and commoners on the run. The Alignment = of all Legions are Lawful Evil. The role of being a Skull Warrior is a = life commitment. Any who run are hunted by the dreaded Skull Legion = Assassins, a feared version of the Secret Police.=20 =20 The Skull Warriors act as bodyguards, caravan guards, duelists, raiders, = protectors, border patrols, monster hunters, and treasure seekers. Any = magical items found are immediately sent to the legion headquarters for = further inspection. =20 The countries they reside in are: Alfheim, Darokin, Alphatia, Thyatis, Rockhome, The Broken Lands, Five = Shires, The Northlands, Ethengar, Glantri, Minrothad, Ierendi, Karameikos, = Atraughin Clans, and Yluarum ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 20:23:54 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: Crossovers - minotaurs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, 25 May 2001 17:06:33 -0700 The Stalker writes: > When the Master of the Desert Nomads invaded Darokin IMC, he had a > bunch of > minotaurs on his side who devastated the Darokinian defenses af > first, so > IMC minotaurs definitely exist in the Sind/Darokin area. I'd imagine > there > are also a number of them below the Broken Lands. Ah yes. I remember those... *sighs in nostalgia for the "good old days" when people had debates over the presentation of Alphatia in post WotI prducts, rather than silly things like Physics* IMC, the minotaurs used by the Master came from the Black Mountains region. I've been meaning to work on writing up something about them for a long time... BTW, Stalker... How did/is the war with the Master turning out IYC? Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/anowack/ ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 20:38:16 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Air Forces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At best a ballista has a range of a few hundred yards, how are you going to hit something at 10,000 feet? George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Keyser" To: Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Air Forces > Dan Eustace wrote: > > > > I am not aware of any easy countermeasures to such things other than > > > skyships or similar air forces. > > > > Some places could have magical anti-aircraft, like a blight belcher or > > meteor swarm cannon with a high altitude range. > > For non-magical anti-aircraft, large modified ballistas would suffice, > ones which could point up and fire in a 90 degree arc/radius. Make it large > enough, and it would be the bane for any flying living thing, magical or > not. > > It would be much less effective against flying vessels, but something > equivalent with flameable oil might work. > > Dave Keyser > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 18:57:30 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dave Keyser Organization: Palmchip Subject: Re: Air Forces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George Hrabovsky wrote: > At best a ballista has a range of a few hundred yards, how are you going to > hit something at 10,000 feet? > > George How many mage spells have a range of 10,000 feet? How many dragon breath weapons have a range of 10,000 feet? A few hundred yards is all you need to counterstrike at most sources of magical attack. At 10,000 feet, even the most powerful dragons can't do much more than watch and drop a few rocks. Dave Keyser ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 21:06:43 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: ramhog Subject: Re: Air Forces In-Reply-To: <0b1701c0e584$89b8b040$8b39abd0@tds.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >At best a ballista has a range of a few hundred yards, how are you going to >hit something at 10,000 feet? > > George > Maybe they could shoot pennies at it. VVH -- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 21:24:02 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: Air Forces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, 25 May 2001 20:38:16 -0500 George Hrabovsky writes: > At best a ballista has a range of a few hundred yards, how are you > going to > hit something at 10,000 feet? At best, the magical weapons that a skyship would use have a range of a few hundred yards also. Physical weapons would be impossible to aim with any sort of accuracy from that high. So, the skyships are going to have to descend to a reasonable height to have any real impact on a battle. Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/anowack/ ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 20:24:26 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Tinman Subject: Re: Air Forces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit better yet a large sack full of copper peices dropped form 10,00 feet would have a devastating effect on a city heh. Tim aka: Alphaks Realms of Mystara http://www.mystaranet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "ramhog" To: Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 9:06 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Air Forces > >At best a ballista has a range of a few hundred yards, how are you going to > >hit something at 10,000 feet? > > > > George > > > > Maybe they could shoot pennies at it. > > > VVH > -- > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 22:44:10 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Ryan Seratt Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/25/2001 6:52:06 PM Central Daylight Time, deustace@MEDIAONE.NET writes: > . Someday I'll post the > whole the system, but basically, spell casters get to use their INT bonus > per die of damage (up to the max for that die, i.e. can't exceed 6 on a d6), > and as a penalty on saves. Then there is spell mastery to improve range, > duration, and penalize saves. It works quite well. Dan sounds like you would like the 3E rules. These sound like or even are feats you can pike up. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 22:15:37 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Air Forces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Why wouldn't a dragon drop a big rock on your castle from 10,000 feet? It is much safer, not to mention destrucive, than risking getting hurt by the magical defenses of the castle. If baseball size hail at terminal velocity will dent a car roof to the point that it needs replacing, a several hundred pound rock will likely punch right through the roof of a castle. Then there are barrels of light oil that can be shattered and set alight on the way down (sort of a draconic napalm attack). Why would a dragon risk its own life if it can reduce most targets by letting gravity do its work for it. Why would you need to use magic at all? The dragon, or sky ship, could save such powers for when they are really needed. Imagine a dragon doing dive bomb attacks for pinpoint accuracy, or sky ships dropping huge loads of boulders, or whatever. How could you stop them, short of having a sky fleet of your own? George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Keyser" To: Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 8:57 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Air Forces > George Hrabovsky wrote: > > > At best a ballista has a range of a few hundred yards, how are you going to > > hit something at 10,000 feet? > > > > George > > How many mage spells have a range of 10,000 feet? How many dragon > breath weapons have a range of 10,000 feet? > > A few hundred yards is all you need to counterstrike at most sources of > magical attack. At 10,000 feet, even the most powerful dragons can't > do much more than watch and drop a few rocks. > > Dave Keyser > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 22:19:13 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Air Forces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Give me a break. You can hover a skyship, dropping (for example) small sacks containing dye. When the die marker hits the castle (probably only requiring a few minutes) you drop your load. The vast majority of what you drop will hit the target. In Afghanistan, the Russians had Mi-24 Hind helicopters (which do not have bombsights) drop bombs from several thousand feet up in a similar manner. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron E Nowack" To: Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 9:24 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Air Forces > On Fri, 25 May 2001 20:38:16 -0500 George Hrabovsky > writes: > > At best a ballista has a range of a few hundred yards, how are you > > going to > > hit something at 10,000 feet? > > At best, the magical weapons that a skyship would use have a range of a > few hundred yards also. Physical weapons would be impossible to aim with > any sort of accuracy from that high. > > So, the skyships are going to have to descend to a reasonable height to > have any real impact on a battle. > > > Aaron Nowack > "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." > http://www.geocities.com/anowack/ > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 22:56:14 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Mystara/FR cosmology (was Mystara3E vs OD&D) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Now that the Forgotten Realms book is out, I should note that it continues the WotC 3E trend of making D&D more "Mystara friendly". If you check out the default cosmology of the Forgotten Realms, I think you will find that it is far more compatible with the WotI Mystara cosmology than the "great wheel" alignment/outer plane system combined with the "great cube" elemental/inner plane system of 2E. Just replace its "celestial planes" and "fiendish planes" with outer planes appropriate to Mystara and you are most of the way to the Mystaran cosmology. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 23:03:46 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Joe Kelly" > Ok, I still use the OD&D modules but I use 2ed rules (more fun! IMO) If you say so.... > Anyway what I want to know is how hard is it to convert 3E back to 2E? > Is it just an elimination of some of the NPC and Monster stats? or do I > need to break out a calculator? Assuming you got a fairly early copy of the PHB, you should have access to a PDF file corresponding to a booklet that describes how to convert from 2E to 3E. Thus, all you need to do is use that file/booklet to reverse engineer that conversion. Note, however, that the backwards conversion will not always work -- while any 2E character or monster will have a reasonable 3E counterpart, there are many 3E characters that would not be "legal" in 2E terms. But if you are really dedicated to using the 2E rules, you should be sufficiently motivated to work out those little glitches in a creative way. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 22:42:48 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: 3E Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FYI -- I have sent Shawn the main file of the report that I did on Dragon magazine for articles relevant to Mystara, with most of the work being done prior to publication of the 3E PHB. This file should be useful as an index to Mystara material in Dragon magazine regardless of what you plan to do in regard to 3E. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 23:14:15 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Mystara stuff on list for ESD continuation! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Joe Kelly" > Can anyone tell me HOW they charge for downloading? I'm not > familiar with this. Thanks! It is an on-line purchase -- as I understand it, at some point in the process they ask you for your credit card number and charge about three bucks to that credit card. As for dealing with foreign customers -- have they to date indeed failed to establish a way to take orders from anyone outside of the USA? While I would understand it if they are having problems dealing with economically unstable countries from the Third World or the former Soviet Union, why in the world would they be unable to work something out for economically stable countries including Japan, Australia, Canada, and most of Western Europe? Given the large overseas market for Mystara/OD&D products, I hope that they work that situation out by the time they are able to make those products available via ESD. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 23:15:27 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Modules A1- A4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "marten finlator" > > Reactions? Other than cringing at the thought of shadow elves replacing drow in those modules -- no reaction whatsoever. ;) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 23:21:05 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Mystaran archives/backups (was Lupin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "shawn stanley" > > >and somebody else should volunteer to mirror your site > >in case you unexpectedly vanish into an alternate dimension? > > I know that it hasn't been updated in about a month but I'm not planning on > that soon. That was not a reaction to any recent lack of activity on your site but a concern based on a crisis that occurred in another community (that of the "Unlimited Adventures" computer game) when our main archive/FTP site was unexpectedly lost to us. That loss took us as completely by surprise as a sudden and unexpected plug-pulling of Shawn's site would pose to the Mystara community -- so I naturally recommended that any steps that could be taken to eliminate that risk would be well warranted. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 01:11:40 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D In-Reply-To: <20010525195044.78176.qmail@web13403.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 25 May 2001, Brendan Corliss wrote: > anything to do with ease per se, is that, in 3E, it's > actually reasonable to play a Human... or a Fighter > for that matter! Finally, the game mechanics match the > settings where most of the most powerful NPC's are... > HUMAN! And they didn't have to resort to artificial > barriers like level limits. Sadly, however, wizards are slighted quite harshly in terms of spell capacity. Sure there are ways to get around this, but they do get the short end of the stick when it comes to spells. I can't wait for the FR set just to see how much greenwood had to juke the system to accurately describe Elminster with 20 char levels. That should bee a hoot. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 05:48:55 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I agree with you on most everything, except I don't think 3e is simpler. I mean, not to humans. 3e is definitely more LOGICAL, but its complexity comes from how much more it contains in the way of rules. Now, it's an interesting thing because when I first went over the 3e rules, I said "this is awesome!" The reason being is because it was so straight-forward logically. Now, of course I chose to stick to OD&D for panache and for the simplicity. But I definitely think if I had to choose one or the other to PROGRAM a game, I'd choose 3e because computers are good with alot of material with alot of structure, if you know what I mean. Even though I prefer DMing an OD&D game, I love to play in any good game in 2e or 3e also. But I do agree that there are some players who are just not interested in OD&D, in which case they usually know all the rules (so you have to change some things anyway). And I've had 2e players play in my game and complain because they didn't know that item A had the property X ahead of time, and don't really like my response of, "well your character didn't know anyway." I guess what I'm saying is I like DMing for a certain breed of player also. I mean, I REALLY like my players because they don't get into the rules too much, they don't go out and buy rulebooks (guess you can't for OD&D anymore anyway) or things to read. To most people it would seem that they're just not very interested in the game, at least not in the same way. But when we play, the fact that they know so little about the world around them makes the experience just that more fun. Angelo >From: Paul Benfield >Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion >To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Mystara3E vs OD&D >Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 23:48:57 +0100 > >I've played all three games in this discussion - OD&D (not since the early >90s), AD&D (for nearly 10 years) and now 3e. > >I suppose it depends on what your players want collectively. For the >majority of my gaming years we played AD&D because as a group we preferred >the variety of those rules. > >Now I live in a different city and have started introducing new players to >roleplaying. I run a one-on-one campaign at the moment and that player much >prefers 3e to AD&D. For him AD&D was a rules system full of inconsistences >and illogical exceptions. Of course this applies equally to OD&D as the >core >mechanics for both are pretty much identical (roll low for ability checks >and skills, roll high for hit rolls and saving throws). > >I'm not saying 3e is better than either system, but it is a consistent rule >base, almost everything is a d20 roll; higher the better. At least this >makes it easier for new players to come to the game. My and my friends from >my old group always took the OD&D and AD&D rules for granted, it is only >now >through the eyes of an newcomer that the wierd inconsistences in the rules >have become obvious. Having played AD&D and 3e he made a clear decision >that >he wanted to play 3e. Although 3e can be viewed as a way of getting us all >to spend out on another set of rules, it could also be said that it is a >simpler core set of rules than OD&D or AD&D. > >If the new rules are easier to learn and have fewer gaps that lead to >destructive 'rule lawyer' arguements then it must be good for the hobby and >thus good for Mystara. > >Paul.B > > > >on 25/5/01 10:17 am, Heard James at Dunlendor@AOL.COM wrote: > > > In a message dated 5/25/2001 4:02:22 AM Central Daylight Time, > > abertoll@HOTMAIL.COM writes: > > > > > >> > >> That's only because there's no argument that a calculator is an >improvement. > >> Some might disagree with you in D&D. I mean, a calculator makes things > >> easier to do. Well, if that's your criteria, OD& > > > > Only when you've been using OD&D or AD&D forever and house ruled and >whatnot > > everything. I'm sure these sorts of things will pop up eventually, but >3E > > seems remarkably resilient to breakage and the folks at WOTC have been >fairly > > forthcoming with information related to some of those decisions that >seemd > > more of flavor and not mechanics (such as alignments and multiclassing >issue > > with Paladins and Monks). Actually, in simplicity's favor 3E is much >more > > like OD&D than AD&D. It just doesn't have those strange old system > > restrictions enforced in place that were made for the sake of game >balance 20 > > years ago. I'm not ragging OD&D, I'm just saying that 3E seems able to >take > > every house rule I've ever made in a home campaign in stride or make >them > > redundant. The calculator is an improvement because it makes life >easier, but > > I'm sure a few folks stubbornly clung to slide rules because they were >more > > familiar with them at first. I think the only issues I have with the >whole > > Mystara 3E project are my doubts that we're trying to force an OD&D >model > > upon 3E instead of forcing a Mystaran model on 3E. Oh well, everybody >likes > > their peculiar brands of cake too. > > > > JMH > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 05:56:52 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed This is more about what I like 3e (even though I say I like to DM OD&D). I like the numerical straight forwardness like having everything positive, using more reasonable "saving throws," the multi-classing method, clear logical seperation of race and class, and all those other improvements. But one thing I thought was REALLY cool was what they did with spell saving throws: making higher level spells inherently harder to avoid. This was a really good move. In fact, I think this is one of the basic problems of previous systems keeping magic balanced. Angelo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 23:23:01 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Greg Weatherup Subject: Re: natinal economy workgroup? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill Manley wrote: > the reason I want to do this is because I would like to re-enact the WotI, > not as hero's playing through it, but as kings and country leaders fighting > the wars. Odd you should mention that as my PBEM Mystara-BR game is currently at Nuw 4th, AC1004 so the players (playing the leaders) will be going through WotI. let me know how yours works! Greg _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 10:28:10 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Caroletti Subject: History of Visneskaya MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit HISTORY OF THE VISNESKAYAN PEOPLE Around 900 BC, a group of Nithian explorers sailed from the capital city of the Empire northwards. Their goal was to circumnavigate the continent of Brun to discover what its effective extension was, and to do geographical and biological researches. They were equipped with powerful magics, were a great number (because they planned to settle down somewhere). They were also self-confident: to help them along in their quest was the wrong belief that Brun hadn't to be more than twice the size of Alphatia. Their expedition was led by Neskhet, a free-spirited Nithian warrior who had travelled all over the Sea of Dawn, and even south to Davania. His group had to face a lot of problems, and after two years of suffering and tremendous hazards in the arctic oceans, the Nithian explorers divided in two groups: one tried to return back through the sea, but only a few of them managed to return back to the fertile plains of Nithia. But Neskhet and some of his followers remained, because they preferred to face the unknown instead of returning through the same dangers they had faced- also because they hoped that they had ended the worst part of their trip. They went in land in Hyborea, and after a long march southward, Neskhet arrived to the lands of the Samaari, peacefully living in Azidhaka. There, he didn't stop for long. After recovering, he and most of the Nithians decided to move west, to search for a new region, less cold than the ones they had reached. His speech and manners, his leader attitude convinced several Saamari. Many left with him, and he settled in the regions which are now part of the northern Zuyevo. There, they founded a new kingdom that took his name, although slightly changed in the pronunciation of the ice folk: Neskayt. Four hundred years later, a migration occurred from far to the south-east. An entire Traldar city had decided to flee from a land that had lost nearly every trace of the Nithian origins, and were splitting in barbarian tribes and minor cities. People of the city of Senda (now completely buried in the western forests) left under the guide of King Leukos, searching for the ancient homelands which they knew were somewhere in the north. The destruction of Nithia resulted in wrong memories who led them north, over Darokin, always hoping to reach their forefathers. A long odissey went on, while the Traldar band had taken the name of Visi (nomads), and begun to wander west in Brun. In the end they were directed by Rathanos, who hoped to re-create an important nucleus of his own followers on surface Mystara, after the destruction of Nithia, and reached the kingdom of Neskayt, by now called Neskay. The Visi were told by Rathanos that these were the descendants of their mother kingdom, but the Neskay didn't believe their offers of peace, frightened that they could be envoys of the Samaari (with whom they didn't have any contact since three centuries) that wanted to reconquer them. This was also a bad moment for the Neskayans, who were facing especially harsh winters (due to a period of great activity by the Ice Demon of Hyborea). After a minor war, the two cultures decided to make peace, becoming the new Kingdom of Visneskaya, formed by the northern province of Vis (an unsettled land �gracefully� conceded by the King of Neskay) and the southern of Neskaya. However, the cultural differences remained strong between the two groups. Each province were administered by a viczar, and had each a "senate" of sorts, and the unity was assured by the sole presence of a single king, who acted mainly as a war leader against the many humanoid bands who infested especially the viczirate of Vis. The balance between the two groups was unsure. Several times the Visi left the kingdom for indipendence, and several times they re-joined fearing the humanoid raids, that often they were not able to repel. Sometimes the Visi were conquered by the humanoids. Once they remained for nearly two centuries under an orc war leader known as Telkan, who led them in war against the former friends (227-235 AC), until he was slain by a revolt that brought once and for all the Visi under Neskayan administration. Then, the Talmavs arrived. Their nomad cavalry tried to submit Visneskaya but was beaten by King Feren� III; their king killed, nowhere to go, the Talmavs asked for permit of remaining in Visneskaya. Feren� agreed. And the ethnic problems grew worse. The Talmav cavalrymen where soon integrated in the Visneskayan Army, and soon they became a new way for the dominating population to pull under the Visi. Finally, in 496 AC, the Visi revolted with the help of Zuyevo, who provided the new rebellion with equipment, tactical lessons and even officers. A group of Visneskayans, led by a distant relative of the dead King Bela IV, Lord Ivan Brasv, fled west and founded the kingdom of Brasov. The Visi, who still talked a Traldar-descended language, instead of the Samaari (but Traldar and Nithian influenced) language of the Neskayans (the "official" Visneskayan) would soon understand that they had nothing to gain from their victory. The frightened Talmavs and the losing Neskayans called for the intervention of Zuyevo (502 AC), and Zuyevo�s leaders didn't use much time to realize that, even if a weak neighbour was better than a strong one, a new province was better than a weak neighbour. After a fifteen years long war, Visneskaya was under Zuyevan control, and the Visi, the Neskayans and the Talmav integrated swiftly, because the most rebellious and indipendent ones either were killed by the new conquerors, or soon decided to leave westwards to follow the footsteps of Lord Brasv, to found their own new kingdoms, that eventually became the Klagorst lands. This war was a major event of Mystaran history, as it gave birth to the Empire of Zuyevo as we know it today, and to all the kingdoms of the Klagorst area. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 11:02:57 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Caroletti Subject: About the structure of Western Brun area on Starflung site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The structure of Western Brun on the Starflung site is not too satisfactory, seen from the point of my humble self who has written some of the material and would prefer this solution (suggestion): WESTERN BRUN 1. Kingdom of Gombar 2. Hyboria (put in this part the Geographic Entry for the Land of the Closed Society and the White Orcs of the North) 3. Klagorst (put here the entries for Gournzee, Kerminhae, Szekesh, Stygia, Brasov, Chevalle) 4. Niponeria 5. Suma'a 6. Zuyevo (put here the entry on Bilot Hills) 7. Yezchamenid Empire (give this empire a separate entry from Zuyevo) This is my humble suggestion. An explanation on why I think it should be so: 1) Yezchamenid Empire has too much relevance in the area to be put under the Zuyevo entry (it's like putting CANADA under USA entry, for instance) 2) Chevalle and Stygia are politically tied to the Confederated Kingdoms of Klagorst while Brasov, Szekesh and Kerminhae are geographically located approx. in the same position. Klagorst is the common name of the region. It's like making an entry about "Europe", with "European Union" as only entry (= Klagorst Conf.) and then put on a separate entry all the non EU states. Greetings, Let me know, I posted this on the list to hear anyone else's comments on the matter, bye bye Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 05:03:04 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "SteelAngel" > > I can't wait for the FR set just to see how much greenwood had to juke the > system to accurately describe Elminster with 20 char levels. Taking into account his arcane spellcasting ability alone, Elminster is a 20th level wizard with five effective levels in the Archmage prestige class, one extra spell slot of each spell level from 10th through 13th, and some ability score boosts and other benefits from being a "Chosen of Mystra". (He has a CR of 45, BTW.) Overall, Elminster turns out to be a 35th level character with 11 virtual class levels and four levels of epic level benefits. Somehow I think we can describe even the most powerful Mystaran NPCs with fewer levels -- at this point the most powerful NPC I have come across is the 1012 AC version of Prince Kol, who seems to work out to being a 31st level character with the number of virtual levels he gets in the Cleric and Sorcerer classes. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 13:49:46 +0300 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Ville V Lahde Subject: Things Kitara did MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Kitiara became a part of my pack of PCs after we played my home-made continuation to the Night's Dark Terror module, "the Wrath of the Iron Ring". (It started with the adventure hook given in "Night's...", where the Iron Ring master Karllag has attacked Sukiskyn when the PCs are in the Lost Valley, taking all their friends hostage anf stealing their hard-earned treasure... Boy, did they lose much!) When Sascia of Luln started a counterintelligence campaign against the Iron Ring with the info the PCs had gathered, she also transported them to Selenica after faking their deaths in a fire. The PCs spent a long time recuperating and spending their money there (this is 1002 in the Twin Campaigns timeline). During this time Ivan Ivanovich met Kitiara in a forest, when she was desperately fighting two trolls/ogres (I forget) that had bypassed the defences of Fort Hobarth. So basically the same way Tanis met her. Kitiara was with the PCs all the way through Chateau D'Amberville. She bacame a friend with most of the PCs, although the arousing nighttime noises made by her and Ivan made the other lonely men a bit uncomfortable (and this took about two months!). I don't remember if Kitiara was with the PCs during "Skarda's Mirror", but anyway around 1003-1004 I "disappeared" her. At that time she traveled north, selling her sword, until she met an agent of Aphastes. She took part in several campaigns in Borea, where she managed to gain fame. The intelligence network of Aphastes, "The Mystic Order of Tinkling Waters" sent her then back to the south as an agent of Aphastes. Her main mission was to learn more about the activities of the PCs, especially Flint and Rada, who come from Larta and know the location of the temple of Aphastes. (They could cut him off the sources of his power, stranding him in Mystara - still ultimately powerfull but not a full god.) During the following years Kitiara met the PCs a couple of times "coincidentally". She learned of their exploits and could renew her relationship with Ivan. She still actually likes the guy, even though he isn't the prom night dream. But most of all she thinks she can use him in the future. Kitiara resurfaced the last time in Flaurmont of 1009. She was sent to Freiburg with a couple of the Rainbow Scaled Ones to take over the town or at least cripple its leadership. They assassinated a member of the ruling council (the pirate leader, whose replacement Yuri Turambar had to break out of the Alphatian prison later on) and bribed the rest by manipulating the guild of courtesans, the thieve's guild and other forces. Kitiara's plans were foiled by Yuri, who made contact with some former slaves of Skarda's Mirror, a beggar clan ruled by a renegade mage, and the merchant-thief Ethrigan. Kitiara was able to escape, however. (One trick she pulled was to break a mirror of life trapping full of Baaz draconians trapped there in, oh, 400 Ac or something.) Since then Kitiara has been promoted, and now she is a general in the flying corps of the Armies of Aphastes. This is no small accomplishment, as her last agent mission was an utter failure. She has formed a close relationship with the leader of the black dragons that Idris donated to the army. Right now she is responsible for the infiltration operation into Glantri. (Yuri managed to get his hands on an important document about this. But trust it to the PCs to ignore the most important papers...) In the future Kitiara is sure to try and win Ivan to the side of Aphastes, but won't succeed. Ivan has said quite clearly what he'll do when he gets his hands on "that traitorous backstabbing wench". > By the way, does anybody have Minotaurs in their campaigns?And no, I am not talking about those winged ones that were mentioned in one of the Dragon Issues. And if so, where in the KW? > The Minotaurs are in the Twin Campaigns a race much like in the Krynn books. They live in the northern arctic shores of the same continent "Known World" is on, beyond Denagoth. The worship Gylgarid the bull god (more info in him in the module Crown of Ancient Glory). Yours, Ville ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 06:16:32 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: kellinjar D'Ungar Subject: Re: Night of the Vampire Conversion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Whats the address for it? I have the full version of NotV on my site, and I wouldn't mind linking to his conversion for those who don't want to do it themselves >From: Matthew Wang >Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion >To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >Subject: [MYSTARA] Night of the Vampire Conversion >Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 14:37:37 -0700 > >I just checked out Eric Noah's D&D Site and in today's >update, there is a 3E conversion of Night of the >Vampire. I haven't checked it out, but I thought you >guys should know about it. > >Matt Wang > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices >http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 10:21:56 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Stone Marshall Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have played OD&D, 1e, 2e, and 3e. My favorite is still OD&D. My time is valuable and the rules are simple. For those with time on thier hands, advanced is the way to go, but for simple storytelling and a 3 hour adventure its the Rules Cyclopedia all the way! When I was 14 and did nothing but play and sleep, my players and I learned 1st edition and made some "adjustments" to OD&D such as hit points (AD&D) and spells. When 2nd edition came out we eagerly jumped in and made even more adjustments to OD&D (proficencies and the like). Now that 3rd edition is out we picked up the rule books and said "NO WAY". Some things are better off left alone. Now that I am 28 with a wife, 2 kids, a morgage, not to mention a 9 to 5 it is hard as hell to get a game together, but when I do its OD&D!!!!! Accept no substitiute! Multizar the DM ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 19:13:01 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "G.P. Agosta" Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Knott wrote: > >> Anyway what I want to know is how hard is it to convert 3E back to 2E? >> Is it just an elimination of some of the NPC and Monster stats? or do I >> need to break out a calculator? > > Assuming you got a fairly early copy of the PHB, you should have access > to a PDF file corresponding to a booklet that describes how to convert > from 2E to 3E. It was made available on the net, too. So with that Conversion Book and the D20SRD people should be able to do their conversions. > Thus, all you need to do is use that file/booklet to reverse > engineer that conversion. Note, however, that the backwards conversion > will not always work -- while any 2E character or monster will have a > reasonable 3E counterpart, there are many 3E characters that would > not be "legal" in 2E terms. But if you are really dedicated to using the > 2E rules, you should be sufficiently motivated to work out those little > glitches in a creative way. IMO: monsters are quite easy to convert, you just need to remove some 3e stuff (like different HD sizes), and select AD&D 2e (or OD&D) special attacks and defences that mirror those in 3e. Remove all references to abilities, except Int. Now you only have to do some easy math on AC, move, magic resistance, and look up the correct thac0. Remove all skills, except those that give initiative or surprise bonuses. However, there's no guarantee that balance is preserved, so if you were converting an adventure, different encounters could end up too easy or too difficult for the original PC levels. Characters are a very different matter, since some classes don't exist in AD&D/OD&D, you have to twist things a bit. For AD&D, you can preserve legal class combos, giving the character a level in each class equal to the 3e CR, minus the number of classes beyond the first (no more than 3 classes, of course!). Prestige classes are removed, and replaced with the nearest AD&D class. A suitable kit may be taken, if available. Monks become fighters, probably, and sorcerers become wizards (well, you can have different solutions, for example the warlock/witch class could fit well). Barbarians revert to fighters with the Barbarian kit. Abilities are preserved, except that 3e racial modifiers must be replaced with their 2e equivalent. Skills can usually be preserved (numbers will change, obviously), and feats removed and replaced with weapon proficiencies. For OD&D, things could be even easier. Work as if you were converting from AD&D 2e to OD&D, except for humanoids. They can be dealt more directly, since the 3e multiclassing and monster PC systems seem quite akin to the OD&D one. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 18:47:16 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Air Forces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Hrabovsky" To: Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2001 2:38 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Air Forces > At best a ballista has a range of a few hundred yards, how are you going to > hit something at 10,000 feet? > > George > I know I'm coming into this a little late but the other crucial point of firing up at an attacker is that when you miss, and sometimes even when you hit, your missile, or whatever, has just become a weapon against you. Even destroying the enemy isn't really wanted since usually they're above you too. Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 14:02:22 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D In-Reply-To: <014701c0e5c5$eb736460$49a61a26@q6s7w2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 26 May 2001, David Knott wrote: > have come across is the 1012 AC version of Prince Kol, who > seems to work out to being a 31st level character with the number > of virtual levels he gets in the Cleric and Sorcerer classes. Which is why we need a prestige class to take care of that.. no way is Kol the highest level NPC out there. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 19:34:12 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Federico Kaftal Subject: What happened to the MMB? Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 Hi, does anybody know? When I try to login at http://tank.wizards.com/mb/system/login.html I ALWAYS receive a message which says: Cannot contact server mb at tank.wizards.com:4100 to forward request. The server could be down. Any advice? Thank you, Federico AltaVista Free email service ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 21:21:22 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Caroletti Subject: Re: What happened to the MMB? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The MMB is dead. TSR killed it a couple of months ago. Take a look at news.dnd.starflung.com, instead. Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 21:32:27 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Caroletti Subject: Re: In Search of Varoka MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You have shared with us more than a good novel, you have shared with us your feelings. Guess I don't know what to say, but it must have been hard to write the last lines of the novel...wish I could say something more. Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 16:30:53 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Air Forces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I remember one of the PCs in an older campaign who used a powerful magic item to kill a dragon as it was taking off. The dragon's corpse then landed on him, killing him right away. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul George Dooley" To: Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2001 12:47 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Air Forces > I know I'm coming into this a little late but the other crucial point of > firing up at an attacker is that when you miss, and sometimes even when you > hit, your missile, or whatever, has just become a weapon against you. Even > destroying the enemy isn't really wanted since usually they're above you > too. > > Paul > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 23:41:30 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Agathokles Subject: Re: What happened to the MMB? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Caroletti wrote: > > The MMB is dead. > TSR killed it a couple of months ago. > Take a look at news.dnd.starflung.com, instead. Also, there is a new MMB at WotC's website: http://www.wizards.com/community/main.asp?x=welcome,3 None of the two is very active this days, though :( -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 16:40:19 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: In Search of Varoka MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just realized that I did not delete my plotting notes for the last scene. A bit sloppy of me, I must say. Thank you for your sentiment, even if you do not know what to say. I did not, nor do I, believe that Heather is in darkness. I was not consciously comparing the exploits of Varoka and Krasnov to those of Heather and myself (though the comparison, as I look back on it, is not a bad one overall). I will include below the poem that I wrote for Heather's memorial service from last December. I think this better expresses my feelings. To anyone made uncomfortable by this, I apologize in advance... "For Heather" On wings of light she rises, riding on the wind. A breeze of summer's passing, a whisper almost heard. Her cares and fears behind her, only love abides. A love so great and wondrous, that I can let her be. A memory of snowfall, of laughter and of joy. This time we had together, cherished ever more. I watch and see her passing, a tear is in my eye. Holding hands with angels now, her journey has begun. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Caroletti" To: Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2001 2:32 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] In Search of Varoka > You have shared with us more than a good novel, you have shared with us your > feelings. Guess I don't know what to say, but it must have been hard to write > the > last lines of the novel...wish I could say something more. > > Iulius Sergius Scaevola > Captain of the XXth Cohort > Port Lucinius, Thyatis > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 17:28:35 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: War with the Master IMC (was: Crossovers - minotaurs) On Fri, 25 May 2001 20:23:54 -0500, Aaron E Nowack wrote: >On Fri, 25 May 2001 17:06:33 -0700 The Stalker >writes: >> When the Master of the Desert Nomads invaded Darokin IMC, he had a >> bunch of >> minotaurs on his side who devastated the Darokinian defenses af >> first, so >> IMC minotaurs definitely exist in the Sind/Darokin area. I'd imagine >> there >> are also a number of them below the Broken Lands. > >Ah yes. I remember those... *sighs in nostalgia for the "good old days" >when people had debates over the presentation of Alphatia in post WotI >prducts, rather than silly things like Physics* > Well, you can always go back and look at some of those old discussions if you feel the need. And if you need a new one, just say bad things about Alphatia - I usually miss my save to resist responding ;) >IMC, the minotaurs used by the Master came from the Black Mountains >region. I've been meaning to work on writing up something about them for >a long time... > >BTW, Stalker... How did/is the war with the Master turning out IYC? > I turned out fine, actually. Thanks for the interest. I used the adventure outline you described back then as a background for my campaign, as much of the plot you mentioned had already come to pass IMC at the time. You may remember I sent some long, long descriptions of the PCs attempts to stop the Manscorpion threat to this list. After that, on their way back to Darokin City, they did have an encounter with "the Scorpion" (that mage riding a wyvern). They traded blows, then the "scorpion" decided to stop while he was ahead, because the ranger could hit him from extreme ranges with his long-bow (and the player was clever enough to target the mage with magical arrows!) After this, the remaining minotaur hordes of the master tried to rush Darokin. IMC the Darokinian, Karameikan, and Shire armies were aided by elves of Alfheim and dwarven warriors from Rockhome, as well as a few Glantrian soldiers led here by Prince Jaggar (much like the X10 adventure, because the PCs had played diplomatic adventures to secure more allies for Darokin). In this huge battle, the minotaurs devastated their initial opponents, and the dwarves, never backing down from a fight, were essentially wiped out! Eventually the archers and crossbowmen of Darokin, Karameikos, and Alfheim made a big difference, though, because the minotaurs took casualties as they advanced. They were still inflicting severe losses on the allies, however. During the fight, the minotaur PC suddenly faced off against a large minotaur in a field plate armor! This was the leader of the Master's minotaurs. Now, remember that the PC minotaur was wearing a Hat of Disguise so that he would appear to be simply a 'really large human'. As the two faced each other, they entered a duel in the middle of the battle-field. The PC was wielding a two-handed sword in each hand (since he was large enough to do so) while the enemy was using a huge axe with both hands! Despite the PC having more weapons, it was an equal fight, because the enemy was more experienced and had better skill with his weapon... and did more damage, of course! They traded blows for a long time, but then the PC minotaur lost one sword to a disarm, but in return the enemy minotaur broke his axe on a critical miss roll. Hurt but enraged, the enemy flung himself on the hero and pulled at him, ripping apart his hat of disguise, thus revealing his true nature... All were shocked around them, but the hero took the opportunity to strike at the enemy and killed him with a heavy blow. As this happened, all the minotaurs began dropping their weapons and pulling back. One old minotaur walked close to the victor with an axe, but as the victor was suspicious of him, he handed his axe to him and said, "You have defeated our leader in combat. You are now our leader!" The player was shocked to say the least, but eventually sent all the minotaurs off toward the Malpheggi Swamp. He never bothered to check up on what they did there (which I will have to use to my advantage at some point). The Master's advance was now halted, but retaking the lost cities was a big problem, particularly with Akorros, because the Darokinian leaders knew that even if they attacked directly and were successful, the Master's forces could seize the ships there and flee across the Amsorak Lake to Akesoli and then control the Amsorak Lake from there. A solution was found when a thief known only as "Shadow" enlisted the PCs' help in infiltrating Akorros and sabotaging the main gates so that the allied armies could rush through to the harbour without being slowed down. After that, the Master's hold on Darokin was more or less broken. Even with Akesoli in his hands, his power in Darokin was threatened because the allies could attack Akesoli from the sea with the ships they retook in Akorros. Soon after they did, and the Master swore revenge, which, of course, came in the form of the Meteor that struck in the Silver Sierra mountains and created the Great Crater. But that's another story. The meteor would have hit Darokin City, but the PCs prevented that too. Those interested should check out the SJA1 "Wildspace" adventure for Spelljammer. I pretty much ran that adventure as written, although I changed the end a lot to fit WOTI. - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 17:45:32 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dave Keyser Organization: Palmchip Subject: Re: Bombardment (was [MYSTARA] Air Forces) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Both Paul and George have brought up some excellent points that I will address below, but first: We were addressing armies out on campaign, being engaged by mid-level wizards with a fly spell and a wand of fireballs or a skyship. In D&D, I was only pointing out that it was possible to use ballistas to threaten living things which fly, Protection from Normal Missiles doesn't work, and larger scale ballistas can do enough damage that even giants and dragons would be wary. Armies would certainly use wizardry if available, but a magic-poor nation could use ballistas to make sure that they aren't routed by the first 5th level mage with a fly spell that crosses their path. IMO, ballistas would be more prevalent in a fantasy world with large creatures. They had their uses back in the medieval time period of the real world, but in D&D, without gunpowder, ballistas provide a means for armies to target and strike hard at the larger targets of an enemy army. Ogres, minotaurs, giants, etc, are more than a match for your average human soldier, but ballistas can level the playing field. So can high level characters, but it depends on how prevalent they are in your campaign. > Why wouldn't a dragon drop a big rock on your castle from 10,000 feet? It is > much safer, not to mention destrucive, than risking getting hurt by the > magical defenses of the castle. If baseball size hail at terminal velocity > will dent a car roof to the point that it needs replacing, a several hundred > pound rock will likely punch right through the roof of a castle. Then there > are barrels of light oil that can be shattered and set alight on the way > down (sort of a draconic napalm attack). Why would a dragon risk its own > life if it can reduce most targets by letting gravity do its work for it. > Why would you need to use magic at all? The dragon, or sky ship, could save > such powers for when they are really needed. Imagine a dragon doing dive > bomb attacks for pinpoint accuracy, or sky ships dropping huge loads of > boulders, or whatever. How could you stop them, short of having a sky fleet > of your own? > > George You can't of course. Now dropping rocks on a city or castle is different than dropping rocks on an army on the march. Most of what you are saying is true, although I question how a dragon dropping rocks is going to get pinpoint accuracy, maybe with a lot of practice? Or the correct feat? Some people may disagree with this, but I am going to say that even in the modern day, bombardment from high altitudes has little military value. The US dropped tons of ordnance for weeks on Serbia during the Kosovo war, when all was said and done, it was learned they killed about 30 tanks and a few hundred soldiers. It was too easy to hide from planes 15000 feet up. >In Afghanistan, the Russians had Mi-24 Hind helicopters (which do not have >bombsights) drop bombs from several thousand feet up in a similar manner. Who won the war in Afghanistan? Even if the Russians were hitting their targets, it didn't help them in the long run. >Give me a break. You can hover a skyship, dropping (for example) small sacks >containing dye. When the die marker hits the castle (probably only requiring >a few minutes) you drop your load. The vast majority of what you drop will >hit the target. Most skyships can hover, so they would be able to do this. Winged flyers could not, so they would be less accurate. Now while I don't think high altitude bombardment is effective against mobile armies, it is much more effective against castles and cities. You will kill innocent civilians as well, but if you don't care about that, it will work. It will still take a while, skyships and dragons would constantly have to collect rocks and return to the sky, but it would work in the long run. The Heldanners actually did this in the PWA's, they did this during the siege of Oceansend. So that provides an example of how it could work in a fantasy world. > I know I'm coming into this a little late but the other crucial point of >firing up at an attacker is that when you miss, and sometimes even when you >hit, your missile, or whatever, has just become a weapon against you. Even >destroying the enemy isn't really wanted since usually they're above you >too. In real life yes, but D&D(past editions) doesn't model this very well. Dave Keyser ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 21:09:12 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hmm, maybe I've been doing some 3E things, w/o even knowing it! I'll have to check it for myself someday. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ryan Seratt" To: Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 10:44 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Mystara3E vs OD&D > In a message dated 5/25/2001 6:52:06 PM Central Daylight Time, > deustace@MEDIAONE.NET writes: > > > > . Someday I'll post the > > whole the system, but basically, spell casters get to use their INT bonus > > per die of damage (up to the max for that die, i.e. can't exceed 6 on a d6), > > and as a penalty on saves. Then there is spell mastery to improve range, > > duration, and penalize saves. It works quite well. > > Dan sounds like you would like the 3E rules. These sound like or even are > feats you can pike up. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 18:04:51 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: Night of the Vampire Conversion On Sat, 26 May 2001 06:16:32 -0600, kellinjar D'Ungar wrote: >Whats the address for it? I have the full version of NotV on my site, and I >wouldn't mind linking to his conversion for those who don't want to do it >themselves > The direct link to the conversion notes is: Then again, you can just go to Eric Noah's site: and then look under the conversion and adventures links and take at look at what's there. It's actually rather impressive how much people have converted already. B2: Keep on the Borderlands has been converted to 3e too, it seems. - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 22:05:41 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: ramhog Subject: Re: Bombardment (was [MYSTARA] Air Forces) In-Reply-To: <3B104E2C.4AB83A71@palmchip.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Both Paul and George have brought up some excellent points that I >will address below, >but first: > But what did John and Ringo have to say about it? VVH -- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 22:18:31 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Eric Anondson Subject: Re: Bombardment (was [MYSTARA] Air Forces) In-Reply-To: <20010527030547.90E972D0516@breg.mc.mpls.visi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v388) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Both Paul and George have brought up some excellent points that I >> will address below, but first: > But what did John and Ringo have to say about it? I think it was something about a sorceress named Lucy being on Serraine looking for dynamos for her flying ship called the "Yellow Submarine" that was piloted by Major Tom and a phanaton calling himself Rocky the Raccoon. Eric Anondson (I couldn't resist either...) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 11:36:04 +0800 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Glenn Butcher Subject: Re: A simple question from a simple mind In-Reply-To: <0aa301c0e4f5$cfba7e00$8b39abd0@tds.net>; from ghrabovsky@TDS.NET on Fri, May 25, 2001 at 03:36:36AM -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 03:36:36AM -0500, George Hrabovsky wrote: > Of course, another possibility would be to purchase aircraft from Serraine. > These are a lot less expensive than skyships. You could by a half dozen > Tomcats for the price of a skyship. Even having a couple of these things > around would give an enemy pause. They could make it too costly to bring in > your skyship... One of the PCs in my campaign (the "hero of Sind") is going to get a message from his boss, the ruler of Sind. The message will be: go and talk to your Serraine friends about hiring/buying aircraft. The party's aircaft (a modified cloudclipper) proved quite effective during the recent Sindhi War of Freedom. -- knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au | "You're not our only customer you glennb@ichr.uwa.edu.au | know" "But we're one of the few http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/ | with tactical nuclear weapons" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 23:05:41 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Bombardment (was [MYSTARA] Air Forces) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References to insects aside, see below: > We were addressing armies out on campaign, being engaged by mid-level wizards > with a fly spell and a wand of fireballs or a skyship. In D&D, I was only pointing > out that it was possible to use ballistas to threaten living things which fly, Protection > from Normal Missiles doesn't work, and larger scale ballistas can do enough damage > that even giants and dragons would be wary. Armies would certainly use wizardry > if available, but a magic-poor nation could use ballistas to make sure that they > aren't routed by the first 5th level mage with a fly spell that crosses their path. The rate of fire for a ballista means that it is impractical as an air defense weapon. You would need something more akin to the magical weapons from Serraine (designed for just this sort of thing). That will keep aerial attackers up high where they are likely to be less accurate. > > Why wouldn't a dragon drop a big rock on your castle from 10,000 feet? It is > > much safer, not to mention destrucive, than risking getting hurt by the > > magical defenses of the castle. If baseball size hail at terminal velocity > > will dent a car roof to the point that it needs replacing, a several hundred > > pound rock will likely punch right through the roof of a castle. Then there > > are barrels of light oil that can be shattered and set alight on the way > > down (sort of a draconic napalm attack). Why would a dragon risk its own > > life if it can reduce most targets by letting gravity do its work for it. > > Why would you need to use magic at all? The dragon, or sky ship, could save > > such powers for when they are really needed. Imagine a dragon doing dive > > bomb attacks for pinpoint accuracy, or sky ships dropping huge loads of > > boulders, or whatever. How could you stop them, short of having a sky fleet > > of your own? > > > > George > > You can't of course. Now dropping rocks on a city or castle is different than > dropping rocks on an army on the march. Most of what you are saying is true, > although I question how a dragon dropping rocks is going to get pinpoint > accuracy, maybe with a lot of practice? Or the correct feat? Depends on the type of target the dragon wants to go after. If it is a large building/village/etc. It is no big deal. If it is an army then there are four possible solutions: 1) Area effect weapons. Baskets of 5 pound rocks dropped from, say, 1,000 feet would be quite unpleasant. Casks of oil (lighted on the way down) or poison gas, or [insert your favorite extremely nasty area effect attack here]. 2) Coins of continual darkness dropped from high altitude. These would be dropped on or near air defenses and command and control assets. Once these are neutralized, the dragon can come down to breath weapon/spell range. 3) Dive bombing practice, till it becomes a genuine skill. 4) Since the dragon can watch the army from high up, it will know the path the army is going to take and can arrange for all kinds of unpleasantness. Let us say the dragon hires mercenaries to attack the army as a diversion. Then the dragon (able to choose the terrain over which it will attack) uses the terrain to mask its approach until it can attack from surprise. > Some people may disagree with this, but I am going to say that even in the > modern day, bombardment from high altitudes has little military value. The > US dropped tons of ordnance for weeks on Serbia during the Kosovo war, > when all was said and done, it was learned they killed about 30 tanks and > a few hundred soldiers. It was too easy to hide from planes 15000 feet up. I do not disagree with this. In fact, I will go one step further. There has never been a successful strategic air campaign. However, integrated air support of ground operations has been extremely successful. > >In Afghanistan, the Russians had Mi-24 Hind helicopters (which do not have > >bombsights) drop bombs from several thousand feet up in a similar manner. > > Who won the war in Afghanistan? Even if the Russians were hitting their > targets, it didn't help them in the long run. Since the war hasn't ended that question is still up-in-the-air. The Russians pulled out when it became apparent that they were not going win any time soon. It was a continual drain on their resources, and their erstwhile allies were not doing their part. So they told the Afghanis that they could fend for themselves. > Now while I don't think high altitude bombardment is effective against mobile > armies, it is much more effective against castles and cities. You will kill innocent > civilians as well, but if you don't care about that, it will work. It will still take a > while, skyships and dragons would constantly have to collect rocks and return to > the sky, but it would work in the long run. Another consideration is this: Armies have to rest. The dragon waits for them to rest and attacks their camps from high altitude. Or the dragon attacks their supply trains. This would, at least, slow down an invader. The dragon, able to choose when and where it will attack could easily stockpile boulders nearby. It would be easy to maintain a sortie every ten-to-fifteen minutes that way. George ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 00:09:42 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Brad Fonseca Subject: Re: Gaz 9 for Sale In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry Folks! Thanks for all the interest but the item has been sold. As people are obviously interested, I will keep an eye out for Gaz stuff at my local shop. I let you guys know the minute I find anything. Thanks for all the interest! :D Brad:) "It is a pain in the ass waiting around for someone to try to kill you." --Merlin, son of Corwin, as quoted in 'Trumps of Doom' -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Brad Fonseca Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 12:43 AM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: [MYSTARA] Gaz 9 for Sale Hello there! I have a spare copy of GAZ 9: The Minrothad Guilds. Would anyone be interested in buying it from me? It contains the Player's Booklet, the DM's Booklet and the Trading fold-out map. I found a used copy at my local gaming shop and won one on eBay. I'd rather let someone on the list get this than have some "stranger" get it on eBay. Please contact me directly for price and shipping. I live in Canada and would be willing to sort out worldwide shipping for the interested party. Brad:) "It is a pain in the ass waiting around for someone to try to kill you." --Merlin, son of Corwin, as quoted in 'Trumps of Doom' ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 00:54:16 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Brad Fonseca Subject: Mass Combat and Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I believe this topic was covered to some degree in the past but it still bugs me! :) Thyatis is partially based on the Roman Empire and organises it's armies into legions. Not having the DotE in front of me, I'm assuming that the infantry is organised like the RW Roman legions: close-order units. In a magic-heavy campaign world like Mystara, these units would be virtually wiped out by several well-placed fireball spells. My main concern is how magic would affect military organization in Mystara. Obviously, it would be too expensive to mount and train every soldier in an army to make them less vulnerable to attack spells. Why hasn't Alphatia taken over the world? I find it unsatisfying to explain this away with the fact that Alphatian wizards are harder to herd than a group of cats. :) "Wizards are too busy with their studies", seems to be a poor excuse. How would the other armies of the world (especially Thyatis) adapt to this constant threat? Sorry about the rambling, I should get to bed. :D Thanks in advance for the input. Brad:) "It is a pain in the ass waiting around for someone to try to kill you." --Merlin, son of Corwin, as quoted in 'Trumps of Doom' ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 00:10:14 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "SteelAngel" > > Which is why we need a prestige class to take care of that.. no way is Kol > the highest level NPC out there. I actually found that idea rather amusing and appropriate for Mystara. After all, the most powerful NPC in the Forgotten Realms is a human wizard with previous levels in other classes -- how boring! On the other hand, if the most powerful mortal NPC on Mystara turned out to be a "mere" kobold, and at that one that a minion of Entropy thinks (quite possibly mistakenly) is her personal pawn, wouldn't that be a rather interesting twist? Incidentally -- since it seems from the Forgotten Realms "epic level" rules that you can acquire your first "virtual level" in a class after you reach 20th character level, I can now easily see a number of 36th level NPCs who would easily be in the 3E level 30+ range and thus could challenge Kol for the title of "highest level Mystaran NPC". Keep in mind that I have been working on a conversion of Gaz 10 and thus have deliberately neglected most human NPCs and so do not yet have a firm grasp of the power level of most human and demi-human NPCs of maximum level. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 01:06:33 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Brad Fonseca Subject: Re: Castle Defenses In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would be interested in this information too! I'm having a hard time getting my head around using/defending against magic in mass combat situations, including sieges. Brad:) "It is a pain in the ass waiting around for someone to try to kill you." --Merlin, son of Corwin, as quoted in 'Trumps of Doom' -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Angelo Bertolli Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 1:43 AM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: [MYSTARA] Castle Defenses Speaking of such defensives, I was wondering if anyone remembers which issue of Dragon Magazine had details on how castles could become more defensive vs certain attacks that did not occur during Earth's middle ages. (Such as massive magic and air attacks, wizards teleporting, walking on water over moats, etc.) I remember reading the article, and it was great. Angelo >From: Dan Eustace >Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion >To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Air Forces >Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 01:40:01 -0400 > > > I am not aware of any easy countermeasures to such things other than > > skyships or similar air forces. > >Some places could have magical anti-aircraft, like a blight belcher or >meteor swarm cannon with a high altitude range. > > > Try doing this to Thyatis, and you will wind up on the wrong end of the > > Retebius Air Corps. Similarly Alphatia will fields its sky fleet. > >That's why they are the Superpowers of Mystara. They could bring their >power to bear on any nearby nations without fear. Only the threat of each >other's intervention would make them think twice. Notice, how in WotI, the >large Alphatian aerial advantage was neutralized early on by a non-military >engagement (inferno of Aasla)? It had to occur to make the scenario >somewhat plausible, even for a fantasy world. > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 06:35:46 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: Mass Combat and Magic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I've got another maybe unsatisfactory suggestion: "sheer numbers" >From: Brad Fonseca >Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion >To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >Subject: [MYSTARA] Mass Combat and Magic >Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 00:54:16 -0500 > >I believe this topic was covered to some degree in the past but it still >bugs me! :) Thyatis is partially based on the Roman Empire and organises >it's armies into legions. Not having the DotE in front of me, I'm assuming >that the infantry is organised like the RW Roman legions: close-order >units. >In a magic-heavy campaign world like Mystara, these units would be >virtually >wiped out by several well-placed fireball spells. > >My main concern is how magic would affect military organization in Mystara. >Obviously, it would be too expensive to mount and train every soldier in an >army to make them less vulnerable to attack spells. Why hasn't Alphatia >taken over the world? I find it unsatisfying to explain this away with the >fact that Alphatian wizards are harder to herd than a group of cats. :) >"Wizards are too busy with their studies", seems to be a poor excuse. How >would the other armies of the world (especially Thyatis) adapt to this >constant threat? > >Sorry about the rambling, I should get to bed. :D Thanks in advance for the >input. > >Brad:) > >"It is a pain in the ass waiting around for someone to try to kill you." > --Merlin, son of Corwin, as quoted in 'Trumps of Doom' > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 08:44:35 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Mass Combat and Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brad Fonseca wrote: > > My main concern is how magic would affect military organization in Mystara. > Obviously, it would be too expensive to mount and train every soldier in an > army to make them less vulnerable to attack spells. Why hasn't Alphatia > taken over the world? I find it unsatisfying to explain this away with the > fact that Alphatian wizards are harder to herd than a group of cats. :) > "Wizards are too busy with their studies", seems to be a poor excuse. How > would the other armies of the world (especially Thyatis) adapt to this > constant threat? IMO, there are two basic options: either the world is low-powered, so that simply there aren't enough 5th level mages to cast fireballs on an army, or it is wildly high magic, so that even non magic units are equipped with anti-magic devices (with a range wide enough to cover a hundred men). -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 02:42:10 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: Castle Defenses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think I recall this Dragon article, somewhat. IIRC, it raised alot of these issues, but didn't go into overwhelming detail. However, it did get me to start thinking about the various changes that magic would bring to wars. I've experienced it in my games, too. Can a MU just knock open a gate? If the gate is protected, than disintegrate should take care of it. Commando/adventurer types could teleport right into an enemy stronghold and do all kinds of damage. Move earth could raise a mound of soil to form a ramp leading right up to a wall. It can also open a pit in front of a cavalry charge. Magical walls are also good vs. charges. Ethereal travellers could also enter quite easily. An earthquake spell could weaken damaged walls and even collapse less stable wooden buildings within a castle's outer walls. Catapult and ballista crew can be wiped out quickly with a fireball or ice storm. Clerics could blanket an enemy castle with silence to prevent communication and return spell-fire. My high level PCs discovered the shadowelf plot on Alfheim, and I had to design a fortress (the Citadel of Saulia) that they would have trouble penetrating. Once in sight of the castle, they created magical dragons and giants to advance 1st, which eliminated a whole squadron of skinwing riders, then they flew up, hasted, and caused all sorts of havoc. The MU created a nightcrawler to tunnel underneath the castle. A cleric cast earthquake. I needed to include magical defenses against teleporting inside, scouts with detect invisible, ethereal guards, etc. Eventually, they took a fair amount of damage from the meks, mid-level SE's hitting them with spells (except for the MU who had immunity on), gargantuan gargoyles, and battles with the high level SE's, that they decided to retreat after parleying with the SE leader (Princess Tanadaleyo). It was a tense situation, and it was good that they left, since any further attack would have hit them with a meteor swarm from Kanafasti (observing the whole time), and Tanadaleyo was protected by a contingency if she was attacked. With magic like this, how did Redstone hold out for so long against Alphatia, which would have had more than 1 powerful MU involved in the siege? It had to have its own very powerful magical protections or even A-M. Likewise, most strongholds of national rulers would have some type of magical protection against intrusion. If not, Alphatian wizards could have teleported to Thyatis City (with all sorts of defensive spells running), shapechanged into flys (or whatever) and entered the Imperial palace, then pretty easily taken out Thincol. The palace would have to have magical alarms, automatic dispels or A-M against intruders, or something to prevent this type of thing from happening. A pretty good magical defense is to hire a good magist! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 02:55:58 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: Mass Combat and Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [snip] > IMO, there are two basic options: either the world is low-powered, so > that simply there aren't enough 5th level mages to cast fireballs on an > army, or it is wildly high magic, so that even non magic units are > equipped with anti-magic devices (with a range wide enough to cover a > hundred men). Low-powered seems unlikely, when there are Alphatian boltmen, skyship fleets, places like Floating Ar, and units such as the Retebius Air Fleet. I work on the premise of high magic, and that each side brings its MUs and other magically equipped heroes (which really become like "superheroes" at very high levels) to fight each other, while the armies slug it out more conventially, but with considerations due to magic, as well. An example would be mage skirmishers casting sleep spells, or magic missiles. These skirmish mages could significantly affect a battle, but would be quite weak in combat and could be taken out by archers, a cavalry charge, etc. Tactics and strategy would be altered quite a bit. But every mass combat I've run has involved engaging the PCs with enemy leaders to wear them down and keep them occupied so they can't totally focus on using magic to rout the opposing army. Meanwhile the armies fight it out. Oftentimes, the PCs can turn the tide at the end, but the armies have done their part, and many soldiers have been killed or injured on both sides. You would still need troops, that is for sure. I will send some accounts of mass combats which I have done IMC using Battlesystem. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 03:18:14 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: The Battle of Bedrock MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This an account of a key battle that took place in a PC dominion IMC = that was being invaded by a humanoid army. The PC had been warned of = the invasion by a group of low level PCs who were adventuring in the = wilderness to the south where the humanoids are prevalent. The battle = was resolved using the Battlesystem rules for mass combat. You'll be = able to see some of the effects of high level magic. The main characters described here are Count Melzo Hara, ruler of = Sularus County (C36); Marquis Throm the Mighty from the bordering land = of Saber River (F36); Throm's magist, Karakia (M25), and chaplain, Kane = (C17). Also present were Throm's bodyguards known as the Lords of War = (F9), assigned here to protect his son Jason (F3), and his friends = Acronon (M3) and Varyn (C4). =20 Here is the account: =20 3/14/98 6/1/2023 AY =20 The Hobgoblin Raiders, led by the Night Bringers, along with giants and = other mercenaries, move down out of the hills to attack the Defenders of = Sularus at Bedrock. The humanoids outnumber Melzo's forces, including = the airship, approximately 800-550. A heavily armed War Machine crawls = toward the town but Throm flies out invisibly to intercept it. A huge = red dragon, Thrithrak, sees Throm and other invisible heroes who are = advancing, and blasts Throm with a fireball. An ogre mage within the = War Machine hits him with an ice storm. The dragon engages Melzo Hara = in an aerial battle, torching him with his breath of flame. Throm = enters the War Machine and the carnage begins. Melzo battles for his = life with the dragon above. Meanwhile, the airship has advanced, and it = quickly draws fire from the mountain giants. The skyship is badly = damaged from the barrage of boulders and is forced to flee the = battlefield, but not before it gets off a few rounds of artillery and = spell-fire. Karakia begins creating dragons to take out the giants and = assist Melzo. Melzo keeps himself in the fight, thanks to his healing = spells and resist fire. The dragon retreats to regroup, and is = eventually slain by one of Karakia's created dragons. Throm is still = slashing away at the occupants of the War Machine when Melzo arrives to = clear it out with a holy word. The humanoid forces have been steadily = advancing and they defeat some of the Sularus cavalry. Melzo slows = their advance by unleashing a mighty earthquake spell that engulfs many = troops. Throm's chaplain, Kane, is shot down by a hobgoblin leader's = arrow. Throm takes care of the hobgoblin leader. Melzo's cavalry = engages the advancing hobgoblins, orcs, and goblin riders, but there are = too many. Others manage to retake the vacant War Machine and start it = toward the town. The giant skirmishers have begun to advance across the = quarry, and Karakia retreats to the woods where he joins Melzo's = skirmish archers and the band of heroes he made invisible prior to the = battle: Jason, Ack, Varyn, and Throm's five Lords of War. The archers = and Karakia's magic keep the giants at bay, but other humanoids are = approaching as well. The archers rout back to the town after a = devastating wave of boulders rains upon them. The heroes join in the = fight against the invaders. Jason, Varyn and the Lords of War fire = missiles while Ack wounds a mountain giant with his wand of cold. The = giants and several humanoid leaders engage the Lords of War, leaving the = heroes to do battle with advancing humanoids and their leaders. = Meanwhile, Melzo's cavalry has been lost and the humanoids begin to = press on toward Bedrock, still defended by a contingent of longbowmen = and heavy footmen. Throm and Melzo hold them back, Throm by defeating = giants and leaders, and Melzo with spells such as holy word and = earthquake, plus the occasional melee battle with a hobgoblin chief. = Jason takes down several humanoid leaders with his swordsmanship, but = Varyn is struck unconscious from a blow to the head. Ack duels with a = goblin riding a dire wolf who survives a blast from his wand. The = goblin wounds him with his spear, but Ack slays him with his dagger. = Two of the Lords of War have fallen, so the group retreats into the = forest and heads back to town. Throm and Melzo have once again = neutralized the War Machine, but the longbowmen can no longer hold off = the charging giants. As they approach the gate, Melzo sends down = another earthquake that crumbles the hillside and sends the giants = fleeing. The remaining humanoids and giants flee in panic as Melzo = casts down a few more temblors for good measure. Bedrock is saved! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 01:51:20 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Tinman Subject: Re: Mass Combat and Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The reason is because the Alphatia forces are 50% fighter and 40% magic-user and 10% special forces (like elite elves) roughly. Those units of magic-users range in level from 1-3 with the captian being either a lv 4 or 5 magic-user. So a company of 1000 may have only 1 mage able to cast a fireball. Since fireball is a level 3 spell and magic-users get the ability to cast 1 at level 5. A well rounded typical alphatian army usually consits of the following forces 2000-3000 Light Infantry Fighters lv 1-3 Captain being either 4 or 5. 500 Elite Elven levels 1-4 with the captian being lv5. and 500-2000 Magic Users lv 1-3 with the captain being level 4 or 5, and 500 Calvalry fighters lv 1-3 captian being lv 4 or 5. The generals are usually Magic Users around level 24 or so and there is one of those per army. These rough averages were taken from the Poor Wizards Almanac AC1010. Hope this helps Tim aka: Alphaks Realms of Mystara http://www.mystaranet.com > >I believe this topic was covered to some degree in the past but it still > >bugs me! :) Thyatis is partially based on the Roman Empire and organises > >it's armies into legions. Not having the DotE in front of me, I'm assuming > >that the infantry is organised like the RW Roman legions: close-order > >units. > >In a magic-heavy campaign world like Mystara, these units would be > >virtually > >wiped out by several well-placed fireball spells. > > > >My main concern is how magic would affect military organization in Mystara. > >Obviously, it would be too expensive to mount and train every soldier in an > >army to make them less vulnerable to attack spells. Why hasn't Alphatia > >taken over the world? I find it unsatisfying to explain this away with the > >fact that Alphatian wizards are harder to herd than a group of cats. :) > >"Wizards are too busy with their studies", seems to be a poor excuse. How > >would the other armies of the world (especially Thyatis) adapt to this > >constant threat? > > > >Sorry about the rambling, I should get to bed. :D Thanks in advance for the > >input. > > > >Brad:) > > > >"It is a pain in the ass waiting around for someone to try to kill you." > > --Merlin, son of Corwin, as quoted in 'Trumps of Doom' > > > >******************************************************************** > >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 01:40:44 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Mass Combat and Magic In-Reply-To: <005801c0e67a$15924540$e0511f42@D56DN901> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > I work on the premise of high magic, and that each > side brings its MUs and > other magically equipped heroes (which really become > like "superheroes" at > very high levels) to fight each other, while the > armies slug it out more > conventially, but with considerations due to magic, > as well. I really don't like the idea of high magic battles. It makes your average fighter much less important. I feel that any high level character will consider his life very valuable and be reluctant to get involved if there is a major risk. Chances are they will turn up with the army, see the forces at hand, deal, if there is no dealing, command their troops in battle, and no matter what the outcome, retire from the feild at the end of the day. They would only get involved if they thought there was little personal risk and would be quite disapointed if they actually had to fight because of nececary personal risk. the SHEAR presence of high level characters on the oposing force would be enough reason not to get involved provided they thought the same. the only reason to get involved would be if the enimies high levels got involved and that would be bad manners (a.k.a. manners of player characters). chris. Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 11:59:49 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Mass Combat and Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Agathokles wrote: > Brad Fonseca wrote: > > > > My main concern is how magic would affect military organization in = Mystara. > > Obviously, it would be too expensive to mount and train every = soldier in an > > army to make them less vulnerable to attack spells. Why hasn't = Alphatia > > taken over the world? I find it unsatisfying to explain this away = with the > > fact that Alphatian wizards are harder to herd than a group of cats. = :) > > "Wizards are too busy with their studies", seems to be a poor = excuse. How > > would the other armies of the world (especially Thyatis) adapt to = this > > constant threat? >=20 > IMO, there are two basic options: either the world is low-powered, so > that simply there aren't enough 5th level mages to cast fireballs on = an > army, or it is wildly high magic, so that even non magic units are > equipped with anti-magic devices (with a range wide enough to cover a > hundred men). I seem to recall reading an article somewhere about magical battle = standards?!? Working a bit on that, you could easily come up with some = that would render units immune to some tactics. Here's what I can come = up with on the fly. I have deliberately avoided most area of effects, = since I'm not quite sure how large they need to be (how much space a = regiment of 1000 troops in close formation take up). I've included some = sample Battle Standards, I'm sure you people can come up with more to = take even nastier tactics into account. I guess you could also place = these Magical Battle Standards on castle towers, etc. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk --- Magical Battle Standards An organized army that utilizes its troops in units with close = formations needs some sort of protection from disruptive tactics, such = as magic (fireball spells and the like) and bombardments (dragons = dropping rocks and other nastiness) from high altitudes. Thyatian = military experimented with protective Battle Standards for years and = eventually incorporated them into most legions. From there the concept = spread to other nations. A Magical Battle Standard is a powerful magical item that protects or = enhances an entire regiment. To function it needs to be held prominently = aloft, either planted in the ground or carried by a Standard Bearer, a = duty that is often given to a squire or young warrior with little battle = experience. The Standard Bearer is one of the most important individuals = of the regiment, and will be protected fiercely, since he provides = protection for the entire regiment. Thus this duty is often given to = noble youths. The Battle Standard is enchanted to cover a large regiment = (1000 troops) as long as they maintain a tight formation, or a looser = formation for a smaller regiment (300 troops). Individual troops may = break formation, but will lose the benefits from the Battle Standard if = they leave the regiment entirely. When two active Battle Standards come within each other's effect, they = will both be cancelled unless they are of the same type. Individual = Battle Standards are magically protected from any mortal level spells, = and can only be destroyed with a Rod of Cancellation. Enemy tactics = often revolve around placing a traitor armed with such a Rod within a = regiment. The Standard Bearer is also vulnerable, but the Battle = Standard can be held aloft or planted in the ground by another soldier, = should the Standard Bearer fall. Depending on the nation or the prominence of the army division, = regiments may be outfitted with several Battle Standards to choose from, = but a particular regiment will often adhere to a single Battle Standard = as "their" Standard, and use it exclusively. Battle Standards are often = marked with individual variations on the nation's regular army symbol to = signify certain characteristics associated with that regiment. A typical Thyatian Legion (3310 troops) will be equipped with two or = three Battle Standards for each Banner (825 troops). Additional Battle = Standards may be issued for special operations. Other nations may have = one Battle Standard per regiment, but will often have only a single = Battle Standard per army unit, or only Battle Standards for their elite = army units. Sample Battle Standards Battle Standard of Anti-Magic This Standard protects the regiment with a sphere of anti-magic, = preventing the use of all spells and magical effects within its area of = effect. Any spell cast into the sphere will fail, and any opponents = entering the sphere enhanced with magic, will have those magics = dispelled. This also applies to enemies flying above the regiment. On = the other hand, this Standard totally prevents magic use for the = protected regiment as well, so it is often used by regiments consisting = of warriors expecting to encounter magic-using opponents. Battle Standard of Bombardment Protection A regiment protected by this Standard has a continuous magical shield in = operation above them. Any item dropped upon them will bounce off the = magical shield and land some 50'-100' from the regiment. This includes = bombardment fire from catapults. Liquids dropped on the regiment will = spill off the edges of the shield, which is some 30' from the troops. A = regiment under this Standard are unable to use missile fire targeted = above them. This Standard is often used while marching and camping. Battle Standard of Fire Protection While under the influence of this Standard, any fire (normal or magical) = will be extinguished when within 30' of the regiment. This includes = flaming arrows, burning oil, and fireballs. No fires can be lit within = the regiment, of course. This Standard is often used by artillery = regiments or when attacking with siege weapons (such as battering rams = or belfires). Battle Standard of Morale The protection offered by this Standard is from magical fear effects. = Any magical fears will be dispelled, and the regiment will also have its = morale boosted to avoid routs. The entire regiment enjoys a +2 bonus to = morale while protected by this Standard. Battle Standard of Missile Protection Any regular missile weapon fired at a regiment protected by this = Standard will be deflected when within 30' of hitting. This includes = magical weapons, but not siege weapons or wands. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 06:36:34 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Mass Combat and Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IMC (which is in the Borigon System, and not OD&D, AD&D, or 3E) the standards work because spirits of the world have granted powers to the ruler of the land. So long as the standard bearer carries the battle standard, anyone wearing the symbol of the ruler (such as on a tabard or shield) will have the noted effect. Since they are so important, only the most experienced warriors are allowed to carry the standard (a position of high honor, since the fate of a landed nobles troops are in their hands). Here are some examples: Protection from Magic (protects vs all spells up to a certain level). Weapon Enhancement (all weapons of are treated as magical) Healing (all troops not immediately killed will have the equivalent of a Cure Light Wounds cast upon them until they are healed) The list goes on and on. If a ruler fails their land, or loses it, the standard is no longer effective. Only in battles where the battle standard is unfurled do these effects take place. Thus they would have no effect for patrols, raids, or escort missions unless they are of national importance. Every landed noble is granted the power to have a battle standard. For every landed noble under the command of another noble the "higher" noble is allowed to gain a battle ribbon, this allows the standard to gain an additional power. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacob Skytte" To: Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 4:59 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Mass Combat and Magic Agathokles wrote: > Brad Fonseca wrote: > > > > My main concern is how magic would affect military organization in Mystara. > > Obviously, it would be too expensive to mount and train every soldier in an > > army to make them less vulnerable to attack spells. Why hasn't Alphatia > > taken over the world? I find it unsatisfying to explain this away with the > > fact that Alphatian wizards are harder to herd than a group of cats. :) > > "Wizards are too busy with their studies", seems to be a poor excuse. How > > would the other armies of the world (especially Thyatis) adapt to this > > constant threat? > > IMO, there are two basic options: either the world is low-powered, so > that simply there aren't enough 5th level mages to cast fireballs on an > army, or it is wildly high magic, so that even non magic units are > equipped with anti-magic devices (with a range wide enough to cover a > hundred men). I seem to recall reading an article somewhere about magical battle standards?!? Working a bit on that, you could easily come up with some that would render units immune to some tactics. Here's what I can come up with on the fly. I have deliberately avoided most area of effects, since I'm not quite sure how large they need to be (how much space a regiment of 1000 troops in close formation take up). I've included some sample Battle Standards, I'm sure you people can come up with more to take even nastier tactics into account. I guess you could also place these Magical Battle Standards on castle towers, etc. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk --- Magical Battle Standards An organized army that utilizes its troops in units with close formations needs some sort of protection from disruptive tactics, such as magic (fireball spells and the like) and bombardments (dragons dropping rocks and other nastiness) from high altitudes. Thyatian military experimented with protective Battle Standards for years and eventually incorporated them into most legions. From there the concept spread to other nations. A Magical Battle Standard is a powerful magical item that protects or enhances an entire regiment. To function it needs to be held prominently aloft, either planted in the ground or carried by a Standard Bearer, a duty that is often given to a squire or young warrior with little battle experience. The Standard Bearer is one of the most important individuals of the regiment, and will be protected fiercely, since he provides protection for the entire regiment. Thus this duty is often given to noble youths. The Battle Standard is enchanted to cover a large regiment (1000 troops) as long as they maintain a tight formation, or a looser formation for a smaller regiment (300 troops). Individual troops may break formation, but will lose the benefits from the Battle Standard if they leave the regiment entirely. When two active Battle Standards come within each other's effect, they will both be cancelled unless they are of the same type. Individual Battle Standards are magically protected from any mortal level spells, and can only be destroyed with a Rod of Cancellation. Enemy tactics often revolve around placing a traitor armed with such a Rod within a regiment. The Standard Bearer is also vulnerable, but the Battle Standard can be held aloft or planted in the ground by another soldier, should the Standard Bearer fall. Depending on the nation or the prominence of the army division, regiments may be outfitted with several Battle Standards to choose from, but a particular regiment will often adhere to a single Battle Standard as "their" Standard, and use it exclusively. Battle Standards are often marked with individual variations on the nation's regular army symbol to signify certain characteristics associated with that regiment. A typical Thyatian Legion (3310 troops) will be equipped with two or three Battle Standards for each Banner (825 troops). Additional Battle Standards may be issued for special operations. Other nations may have one Battle Standard per regiment, but will often have only a single Battle Standard per army unit, or only Battle Standards for their elite army units. Sample Battle Standards Battle Standard of Anti-Magic This Standard protects the regiment with a sphere of anti-magic, preventing the use of all spells and magical effects within its area of effect. Any spell cast into the sphere will fail, and any opponents entering the sphere enhanced with magic, will have those magics dispelled. This also applies to enemies flying above the regiment. On the other hand, this Standard totally prevents magic use for the protected regiment as well, so it is often used by regiments consisting of warriors expecting to encounter magic-using opponents. Battle Standard of Bombardment Protection A regiment protected by this Standard has a continuous magical shield in operation above them. Any item dropped upon them will bounce off the magical shield and land some 50'-100' from the regiment. This includes bombardment fire from catapults. Liquids dropped on the regiment will spill off the edges of the shield, which is some 30' from the troops. A regiment under this Standard are unable to use missile fire targeted above them. This Standard is often used while marching and camping. Battle Standard of Fire Protection While under the influence of this Standard, any fire (normal or magical) will be extinguished when within 30' of the regiment. This includes flaming arrows, burning oil, and fireballs. No fires can be lit within the regiment, of course. This Standard is often used by artillery regiments or when attacking with siege weapons (such as battering rams or belfires). Battle Standard of Morale The protection offered by this Standard is from magical fear effects. Any magical fears will be dispelled, and the regiment will also have its morale boosted to avoid routs. The entire regiment enjoys a +2 bonus to morale while protected by this Standard. Battle Standard of Missile Protection Any regular missile weapon fired at a regiment protected by this Standard will be deflected when within 30' of hitting. This includes magical weapons, but not siege weapons or wands. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 14:47:26 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Mass Combat and Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dan Eustace wrote: > > [snip] > > > IMO, there are two basic options: either the world is low-powered, so > > that simply there aren't enough 5th level mages to cast fireballs on an > > army, or it is wildly high magic, so that even non magic units are > > equipped with anti-magic devices (with a range wide enough to cover a > > hundred men). > > Low-powered seems unlikely, when there are Alphatian boltmen, skyship > fleets, places like Floating Ar, and units such as the Retebius Air Fleet. I mean, in my campaign there are boltmen, but they use wands of magic missiles. There is Floating Ar, but it would take decades to build one, and the Retebius Air Fleet is very small. In general, it involves having very few high level characters, that is, instead of an army of name level wizards (which Alphatia could surely afford, as it is portrayed in the CM series), you have some units of low-level (=level 1) wizards, with no or little magic items. Take Karameikos' army for example, that is an example of an army with nearly no wizards, light armor and few, if any, magic items. Yet Karameikos is supposed to survive. > I work on the premise of high magic, and that each side brings its MUs and > other magically equipped heroes (which really become like "superheroes" at > very high levels) to fight each other, while the armies slug it out more > conventially, but with considerations due to magic, as well. In a really high magic world, there is little space for armies that ar not entirely composed of high level characters. I suppose they would be like the Lancers of Denagoth (the soldiers are 5th level, the officers 8th+). At that point, they can stand some magic attacks. Of course, since they are 5th+ level characters in high magic world, they can be expect to have at least 2 permanent magic items each, and some assorted potions and scrolls. At this point, a battle is only a very large encounter. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 06:24:22 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: hafnir Subject: Greetings! (new to list) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings to this fine list! My handle's hafnir, and I'm new to this list. I've been lurking for a few weeks to get a feel for the list, and I'd like to start posting/replying. So I thought I'd start by (hopefully briefly) introducing myself. First the basics, I'm a 27 year old guy living in the San Francisco Bay Area (this sounds like a personal ad ... :) but I have a steady girlfriend :) ). Getting straight into the more relevant specifics, I've been doing OD&D since around 1983 - I remember it was a few months before the final blue Expert Set came out - and I've been exclusively a DM pretty much the whole time. I own most everything for OD&D, minus just a handful of the very earliest stuff (for instance, I'm missing the RPGA series, or the original Blackmoor material), and a handful of the very latest stuff (some of the AD&D Mystara stuff - I took it kinda badly when Mystara moved into AD&D, but I've decided to pick up the material anyway - already working on that). I'm currently running 5 OD&D Mystara campaigns - 1 weekly, 1 monthly, 1 annually (more on that below), and 2 on hiatus (but with players from the weekly and monthly campaigns). I've been on the net since '90, but for some odd reason it only recently occurred to me to seriously try to join a list like this one. So far I'm overall impressed with what I've read, and with much of the online fan-material as well, so hopefully I'll be sticking around for a while. :) I have to say, this list does get more traffic than I'm usually comfortable with, but I'm going to give this a go. So to get the ball rolling, I've decided I'd like to give the list a little "present" if you will. Let me explain. Since I was in middle school (back in the mid-80's), I've been getting a group together to meet up with me at my parents house in San Antonio, Texas (I largely grew up there) for an all night OD&D session on as close to as possible my birthday in August. We've kept the tradition going since then, even up to this day - I fly back every year, and usually bring some people from out here as well! I've always written an original adventure every time we get together for this thing (we affectionately call it the BDP - i.e. BirthDay Party), but around 1991 I actually started (fairly) formally writing them out in considerable detail. I was thinking it might be cool if I made one available for the group here to take a look at. I'm particularly proud of the 1999 BDP adventure, so I thought I'd start with that. So yeah, I formally invite the DMs here to take a look at: http://home.earthlink.net/~hafnir/1999BDP.doc . I'd love to hear what people think of it. I have a few messages of warning, however. They're a little longer than I'd like to email, so please refer instead to: http://home.earthlink.net/~hafnir/1999BWrn.txt . You probably should look at that first to make clearer sense of the adventure.... :) And again, please feel very, very free to comment on it (definitely you can email me, but if it's cool with the list discussing it here is also great). Well, I hope people like it, and I look forward to discussing the topics of the day on this list! hafnir. PS: It's 6AM out here, so I'm definitely off to bed, but I'll read you soon! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 09:54:48 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: ramhog Subject: Re: Greetings! (new to list) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >took it kinda badly when Mystara moved into AD&D, but I've decided to >pick up the material anyway - already working on that). Should be on your doorstep any day now ;) VVH -- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 20:28:34 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: jason o'brien Subject: Re: Air Forces MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I remember one of the PCs in an older campaign who used a powerful magic > item to kill a dragon as it was taking off. The dragon's corpse then landed > on him, killing him right away. > > George a similar thing happened to a pc in my campaign, he had a dragon slaying sword, was a high level thief and a nosferatu. he changed to mist and went for the dragons back, he materialised as the dragon was turning to give chase to his friends who where rapidly galloping away, and backstabbed the dragon. the dragon dropped from the sky and as it had been turning went into a roll. it landed on the pc crushing him.luckily being a nosferatu he regenerated after a while. of course the player forgot he could only be killed permanently in certain ways, so you can imagine the look of shock on his face when he was crushed and killed. needless to say, i said nothing for about a week as the game closed on that note ;-) Mortus. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 20:33:11 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Mystara 3E Convert Me Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Ok, Iv been DMing in Mystara for quite some time with 2E rules. I have all the Mystara 2E ( including red steel ) stuff plus most GAZs, all PWAS, all Creature Crucible and some other OD&D Stuff like Creature Catalogue. I never had any troubles converting monsters and NPC's "on the fly" while fighting was taking place and never writing anything down. I have bought the 3E PHB and 2 of my players are raving about 3E all the time I have to tell them to shut up about it as it distracts from play. Their always going, well in 3E this rules is like this instead so it's better. Even tough another player doens't want anything to do with 3E and the other doesn't care, because of poeple on the list and my 2 3E evangelist in my group I tought of swithcing. The only things keeping me away from it are ( Im not saying im right on any of these points as I haven't read more than 30% of 3E PHB and didn't even look at DMG ) : 1- Im more of a anti too-powerful PCs. This is why I don't use 2E combat and tactics, spells and powers, etc. as they give more and more strength to the players and not to the monsters while making gameplay bog down by useless rule. But 3E characters seems more powerful than Marvel Super Heroes combined with Dragon Balls. I mean feats ? gainin more feats ? Gaining characteristic points ? MONKS ??? All classes are more powerful than 2E. Everything is about giving more and more powers. My 2 3E evangelist say, well they gave more to the monsters as well... then why give more powers and rules to PCs and monsters, why not leave them that way ? Could someone tell my if im mistaken on this point or any DM who feel like me has any opinions on this. 2- Im afraid with monster's having feats and the possibility of them having classes will be too hard to convert. Since I want to use OD&D and 2E monsters and NPC's while not having to convert them all before hand, can anyone tell me how hard converting a 2E mage or OD&D monster to 3E "on the fly" is ? 3- Material, im afraid I won't be able to use some Mystara materials or will have to spend lots of time converting ( time I don't have BTW ). Exemples official mystara material is written like wizards cannot have armor and most races can be that or this class. DMs who dm Mystara with 3E rules how do you handle that ? 4- Also I would have to convert 4 characters of level 4 and 5 to 3E. Is this easy ? Would my players "loose" that way by having characters converted they would not use the 3E rules as much ? Im currently using 2E because im familiar with it. It's more detailed than OD&D and has some improvement. But I have looked on the Lighthouse site ( mystara net project for 3E ) and there aren't many files. As for the other project hosted on yahoo I haven't subscibed yet as I hadn't seriously considered 3E until about an hour ago. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 14:06:53 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Richard Drozdik Subject: Re: Mystara 3E Convert Me Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 08:33 PM 5/27/01 +0000, Gilles Leblanc wrote: >The only things keeping me away from it are ( Im not saying im right on any >of these points as I haven't read more than 30% of 3E PHB and didn't even >look at DMG ) : > >1- Im more of a anti too-powerful PCs. This is why I don't use 2E combat and >tactics, spells and powers, etc. as they give more and more strength to the >players and not to the monsters while making gameplay bog down by useless >rule. But 3E characters seems more powerful than Marvel Super Heroes >combined with Dragon Balls. I mean feats ? gainin more feats ? Gaining >characteristic points ? MONKS ??? All classes are more powerful than 2E. >Everything is about giving more and more powers. My 2 3E evangelist say, >well they gave more to the monsters as well... then why give more powers and >rules to PCs and monsters, why not leave them that way ? Could someone tell >my if im mistaken on this point or any DM who feel like me has any opinions >on this. Yes, if you take a core 3E character and put him beside a core 2E character, the 3E character will seem more powerful. I don't know anything about 2E's player options, so that might even things out. Same goes with monsters. But it is a matter of scale, and in that situation you are comparing apples to oranges. The thing to point out is that 3E characters weren't made more powerful to just give them more power. Player's have more options with what they can do when they are creating a character. But everything is balanced and that is the key. >2- Im afraid with monster's having feats and the possibility of them having >classes will be too hard to convert. Since I want to use OD&D and 2E >monsters and NPC's while not having to convert them all before hand, can >anyone tell me how hard converting a 2E mage or OD&D monster to 3E "on the >fly" is ? I don't think it will be any harder to convert. If you had no problems doing conversion before, once you've got the new rules straight in your head, then you shouldn't have a problem doing conversion now. I'm in the middle of doing a 2E to 3E conversion right now, and the only problems I'm having comes from house rules that I'd developed of 2E, and getting them to fit with 3E. >3- Material, im afraid I won't be able to use some Mystara materials or will >have to spend lots of time converting ( time I don't have BTW ). Exemples >official mystara material is written like wizards cannot have armor and most >races can be that or this class. DMs who dm Mystara with 3E rules how do you >handle that ? Same as any other conversion. You generally have two types of information: flavour which for an NPC would be description and behaviour of how he acts, and then stats which outlines what he can do. When converting I use the new rules and make my best approximation that fits with the behaviour. >4- Also I would have to convert 4 characters of level 4 and 5 to 3E. Is this >easy ? Would my players "loose" that way by having characters converted they >would not use the 3E rules as much ? Depends on the characters. Multi-class characters can be more difficult, but in general a character shouldn't loose anything when being transferred over. Richard ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 17:46:15 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Heard James Subject: Re: Mystara 3E Convert Me MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/27/2001 3:33:38 PM Central Daylight Time, bleakcabal@HOTMAIL.COM writes: > 1- Im more of a anti too-powerful PCs. This is why I don't use 2E combat and > tactics, spells and powers, etc. as they give more and more strength to the > players and not to the monsters while making gameplay bog down by useless > rule. But 3E characters seems more powerful than Marvel Super Heroes > combined with Dragon Balls. I mean feats ? gainin more feats ? Gaining > characteristic points ? MONKS ??? All classes are more powerful than 2E. > Everything is about giving more and more powers. My 2 3E evangelist say, > well they gave more to the monsters as well... then why give more powers and > rules to PCs and monsters, why not leave them that way ? Could someone tell > my if im mistaken on this point or any DM who feel like me has any opinions > on this. Feats are cool. Feats are gimmicky. In the end the DM always has the power of life and death over his players though in the game though, so its a rather moot point even in 3E. The increased power level of the PCs has been more of a telling point in giving the players bragging rights and niche specializations rather than actually effecting my ability to kill them all off. I suppose if you wanted to run a 3E game where the players were significantly lower power than the monsters and at a severe disadvantage you could always make the players make up characters using the NPC classes in the DMG like Commoner and Warrior (A really lame duck fighter). As for the ability increases, thats not affected game play at all. I mean, not at all at all, half the players spend their ability increases in spellcaster root attributes to make sure they can cast spells of appropriate levels later on and the other half "fix" the negative modifier attributes that they started with. Finally, monks are fun. Monks are balanced in the new system (IMO at least), and they have rather severe limitations. Monks add a sort of hong kong action theatre/bar brawl feel to the game sometimes. You can always leave them out if their flavor doesn't suit you. Basically, its easy to kill players. Admit it, the party is first level and they walk out of the stereotypical bar. You blast them with dragon breath, chuckle under your knuckles about cool random encounters and tell them to roll up new characters. Its easy, the new game does operate under the assumption that characters in the game are a bit more heroic than your average joe. There is no default "your characters are just like everyone else except you get to go on cool adventures" since the DMG makes (rightly I think) the decision that the "normal guys" (the NPC classes) wouldn't stand much of a chance in the default power level of the game. Yes, there is a default game. The game is riddled with the baseline assumption of a party of four characters playing a cleric, fighter, rogue, and wizard. This would be a bad thing if they didn't make it clear that this assumption is present. This makes it easier to decide how far off the baseline you game is and how much you should compensate for it. > 2- Im afraid with monster's having feats and the possibility of them having > classes will be too hard to convert. Since I want to use OD&D and 2E > monsters and NPC's while not having to convert them all before hand, can > anyone tell me how hard converting a 2E mage or OD&D monster to 3E "on the > fly" is ? Most of the OD&D monsters are present in some 3E format somewhere. I don't know about converting them "on the fly" but I'd assume it would be slightly more difficult than from OD&D to 2E considering: 1. Monsters have stats now 2. Some more powerful monsters are better represented in 3E as just normal monsters with class levels 3. Some types of monsters got _significant_ boosts in power in 3E making them much more deadly in their baseline type than in previous editions. For instances: Undead hit die type is now d12, undead are immune to the built in critical system, constructs are immune to critical hits as well, vermin (things like centipedes and scorpions) are immune to a whole list full of spells too because they're dumb. Converting previous editions to 3E characters I think is best done by the DM. There's a conversion document, but it seems to be a bit more art than science. The best advice I can give on character conversion is to read the 3E rules until your eyes hurt and then convert to the spirit of the rules rather than the letter of them. I get better results that way at least. Monsters are usually a hella lot easier, because monsters all obey certain restrictions and common factors of their type. 3- Material, im afraid I won't be able to use some Mystara materials or will > have to spend lots of time converting ( time I don't have BTW ). Exemples > official mystara material is written like wizards cannot have armor and most > races can be that or this class. DMs who dm Mystara with 3E rules how do you > handle that ? Glaze over your eyes and see only the color text. Rewrite all traps to be more in step with the new rules (there's a nice section in the DMG covering a whole bunch of them), convert as many NPCs as necessary to 3E and leave the rest of them because if they're just in there to provide information you don't need to know how many hps they have. Look for all the monsters in the module in the MM, pay attention to their challenge ratings (difficulty and XP) because some things are a lot harder in 3E than they were in prior editions. If they're not in the MM and you don't have time to do it yourself, go to Eric Noah's site and try to find the monster already converted for you. Sometimes it works. Oh yeah, mages can wear armor in 3E- but I haven't seen any of them dare to yet. There are good reasons not to put on plate mail if you're a wizard, you can do it but it requires a bit of power and preparation to do so. I've started looking it as something that powerful mages do on occassion just to confuse the issue and break the pointy hat stereotypes. Maybe they just wear armor occassionally to get into better restaurants? No sword, no shield, no service... > 4- Also I would have to convert 4 characters of level 4 and 5 to 3E. Is this > easy ? Would my players "loose" that way by having characters converted they > would not use the 3E rules as much ? Converting single class characters is pretty straightforward. Its when you get into dual and multiclassed characters that you run into weird translation problems such as 36 lvl characters not being quite the same as its 20th lvl counterpart in 3E. Just my own opinions and observations, JMH ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 17:08:59 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: Mass Combat and Magic On Sun, 27 May 2001 00:54:16 -0500, Brad Fonseca wrote: >I believe this topic was covered to some degree in the past but it still >bugs me! :) Thyatis is partially based on the Roman Empire and organises >it's armies into legions. Not having the DotE in front of me, I'm assuming >that the infantry is organised like the RW Roman legions: close-order units. >In a magic-heavy campaign world like Mystara, these units would be virtually >wiped out by several well-placed fireball spells. > This is true, but although I don't wish to hasten to the aid of the Thyatian legions, I think too many people tend to focus on the legions and forget that Thyatis have a number of very experienced wizards as well. They have more high-leveled wizards than Glantri, and though these are a lot fewer than Alphatia's impressive numbers of wizards, Thyatis organizes them better, particularly in cooperation with their more common troops. This concept is not true of all Alphatians (Randel and Stonewall have very efficient troops, be they warriors or wizards), but it is true of most Alphatian wizards. >My main concern is how magic would affect military organization in Mystara. >Obviously, it would be too expensive to mount and train every soldier in an >army to make them less vulnerable to attack spells. Why hasn't Alphatia >taken over the world? I find it unsatisfying to explain this away with the >fact that Alphatian wizards are harder to herd than a group of cats. :) >"Wizards are too busy with their studies", seems to be a poor excuse. How >would the other armies of the world (especially Thyatis) adapt to this >constant threat? > I think it was Bruce Heard who once explained it in dragon - why would they? I mean, have you looked at the map of both empires in DotE and noted how large Alphatia really is? Alphatia isn't just large, it's huge! Maybe the Alphatians decided their empire was already large and powerful enough. When you consider how they tend to think of (and treat) their land in the Esterhold Peninsula or Norwold, or even Bellisaria for that matter, it certainly seems that they don't care much about what happens there. Clearly, only the mainland (the continent of Alphatia) matters to those with real power (the wizards). So, could Alphatia conquer the rest of Mystara? Perhaps they could. Then again, how much of the real world could the USA conquer with their advanced technology? We don't see the US Navy send in aircraft carriers to conquer lands just because they have the power to do so. In a sense, the same principle is true for Mystara. >Sorry about the rambling, I should get to bed. :D Thanks in advance for the >input. > You know I'll bite when you mention Alphatia :) - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 01:15:45 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: Mass Combat and Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Chris Furneaux" [snip] > I really don't like the idea of high magic battles. Yes, but in a high level campaign, you have little choice. Either the PCs opponents are high level, which equals high magic, or the PCs are the most powerful guys on the planet. And since Alphatia supposedly has 1000 level 36 MUs, I decided that the PCs are not the most powerful. That required balancing them out against foes of equivalent power. Yes, I could just retire them and end the campaign, but there is still adventuring to be done. No one has reached Immortality yet... It makes your average fighter much less important. I feel > that any high level character will consider his life > very valuable and be reluctant to get involved if > there is a major risk. Yes, but when your cleric friend can just cast raise dead fully, what's the big deal? In game terms, it doesn't even matter, even though PCs never like getting killed. Eliminate or severely limit bringing back dead characters, and you begin to return to low magic. Chances are they will turn up > with the army, see the forces at hand, deal, if there > is no dealing, command their troops in battle, and no > matter what the outcome, retire from the feild at the > end of the day. They would only get involved if they > thought there was little personal risk and would be > quite disapointed if they actually had to fight > because of nececary personal risk. the SHEAR presence > of high level characters on the oposing force would be > enough reason not to get involved provided they > thought the same. the only reason to get involved > would be if the enimies high levels got involved and > that would be bad manners (a.k.a. manners of player > characters). > PCs are what I had in mind throughout this whole thread. They're always looking to take out an enemy leader - that's the way the game is set up (look at the final showdown in X10, or even in most movies or novels, any large war ineveitably results in a personal battle between the leaders! : ) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 09:28:35 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "G.P. Agosta" Subject: Re: Mystara 3E Convert Me MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gilles Leblanc wrote: > > I never had any troubles converting monsters and NPC's "on the fly" while > fighting was taking place and never writing anything down. Yes, OD&D and AD&D are essentially the same, especially at low levels. > I have bought the 3E PHB and 2 of my players are raving about 3E all the > time I have to tell them to shut up about it as it distracts from play. > Their always going, well in 3E this rules is like this instead so it's > better. Even tough another player doens't want anything to do with 3E and > the other doesn't care, because of poeple on the list and my 2 3E > evangelist in my group I tought of swithcing. If you play quite often, wouldn't it be easier to have two campaigns, your one and a new 3e one DMed by one of the "evangelists"? > My 2 3E evangelist say, > well they gave more to the monsters as well... then why give more powers and > rules to PCs and monsters, why not leave them that way ? Could someone tell > my if im mistaken on this point or any DM who feel like me has any opinions > on this. Yeah, me. I could not agree more with your points. I understand the new game has its own internal balance, but it is incompatible with the previous versions, and its balance is too high anyway. Another issue I have is modularity: while in OD&D/AD&D you could ignore some parts of the game, like proficiencies/skills & weapon mastery, without seriously unbalancing the game, this appears impossible in 3e. Now, I could rant on this, or on why they changed the balance, for hours, but I think it would be off-topic. You might want to have a look at some 3e boards (at www.ericnoah.com, for example), or at the Out-of-Print board at Wizards' if you want a 2e-biased reply (i.e., mine ;) ) > 4- Also I would have to convert 4 characters of level 4 and 5 to 3E. Is this > easy ? Would my players "loose" that way by having characters converted > they would not use the 3E rules as much ? Uhm, unless you had some really uncommon multiclass options like wizard/cleric, I doubt your PCs will have something to loose in the change. As you said before, 3e is more geared towards high power game. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 00:24:16 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Mass Combat and Magic In-Reply-To: <003601c0e735$40262ae0$e0511f42@D56DN901> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I really don't like the idea of high magic > battles. > > Yes, but in a high level campaign, you have little > choice. Either the PCs > opponents are high level, which equals high magic, > or the PCs are the most > powerful guys on the planet [snip] High level does not = high magic. There has to be high level opponants but they don't have to become involved unless there is need. Their involvement makes them a target, but they would not concider themselves expendable, and so unless they are needed, or the odds are severly in their favour they would rather sit back. WHEN PC's get involved they will be needed to counter the PC's. > Yes, but when your cleric friend can just cast raise > dead fully, what's the > big deal? In game terms, it doesn't even matter, > even though PCs never like > getting killed. Eliminate or severely limit > bringing back dead characters, > and you begin to return to low magic. only if you win the day. If your forces are driven from the feild without the character being razed his body is the victors to do with what they will. If it is the cleric that dies the greater the loss. To me magic is not set in stone and in my games I have introduced counter magic skills as house rules. this means that one mage and groupies versus non-mages is very dangerous, but one mage and groupies versus another mage and groupies is not that dangerous for the non-mages. This is because the spalls become negated. Take the movie Willow where the evil (mage) queen turns the attackers into pigs. the good mage later returns them to their normal form and casts a spell of protection so it cannot happen. The normal men then slug it out. > PCs are what I had in mind throughout this whole > thread. They're always > looking to take out an enemy leader - that's the way > the game is set up > (look at the final showdown in X10, or even in most > movies or novels, any > large war ineveitably results in a personal battle > between the leaders! : ) The finally in a movie is not the way in which most battles are fought, although thats how some of the more famous ones were fought. What I was saying is that the high magic battle is not neccecarally the norm. you would not hear reports of many high level or commander deaths from most battles but you would hear troop losses. That would be the norm, however they would be prepered for the ab-normal. Theres periodically some prick or hero (like PC's) who decide it would be smart to get involved. Take alexander the great for example. It makes your army stronger but also involves personal risk and even in a world with raise dead it's still a concern because you don't know what others would do (though PC's tend to stick togeather). In movies the battles normally end in personal combat because the end has to be an end and if someone didn't die to end it then it'd keep going. Braveheart exibits my point precicely. The english leaders don't get involved while William Wallace does and made major changes to the outcome. The English see it as bad manners to get involved and so do the scottish lords. The scottish freemen see it as nessecary to get involved. In real life long lasting conflicts have happened. In Mystara thyatis and alphatia are in constant conflict, but not decisively mostly for this reason. Because nobody powerful wants to risk their life to finish it. PC's do not have the risk factor, and so create a hero factor and influence the outcome. This eventuallity is accounted for but my point was it is likely not the norm. What happens when PC's get involved is good to discuss, but to me even the war machine says high-levels don't get involved 'much' because of the assumption that if you use war machine the PC's will not be casulties and I extend this rule to other high level characters too. Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 18:27:08 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Ancient One Organization: NOLAN P and I Subject: Re: Mass Combat and Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I run a mystara where there is usually a war somewhere, but I don't usually have the high-level leaders on the battlefield as they usually don't want to risk a stupid death before they reach Immortality, or alternatively they are are like Hitler or Churchill in WW2 - charismatic leaders whose followers don't want them risked as it would destabilise the realm. I also think that if there are enough other high-level threats, puzzles, mysteries and eq town-based economic adventures and/or exploration of unknown area adventures, the high-level warfare will recede in importance into the background. A more immediately movie-relevant example would be the behaviour of the major players in Lord of the Rings (LOTR hereafter)- Sauron sits in Mordor in the hub of a vast network of evil; Saruman can't bear not to interfere directly - and dies because of it; Gandalf also dies due to his own interference (although *something* resurrects him...); even the future King comes close to dying on his "path up the levels". The sophisticated background to LOTR means there is plenty to do - diplomacy for example. With such things going on the warfare will be relegated (usually) to a background feature or something from the biography of new characters - mayhap they are veterans of one of these wars, etc.etc. Because of the way War Machine etc. was sort of dropped in to the OD&D books I think it has always had an uneasy relaitonship to an ongoing campaign - some (maybe most?) players will feel that unless a war has arisen from the diplomacy and background of the campaign world it is just gratuitous wargaming in an otherwise swashbuckling one-on-one type game. As always one would have to say though that if it works IYC then keep it! :) visit us at welcome.to/nolanbooks ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 06:01:49 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Mass Combat and Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Are you suggesting that armies don't need leaders? I think you will find that troops need to respect their leaders if their morale is to be good. The best leaders do indeed stand back in the midst of battle and direct their troops. The moment a leader actually gets invo9lved in personal combat they cease to be a leader and become a combatant. If this is done at a crucial moment it can be decisive. Look at the battle (whose name I forget) where Julius Caesar took what is now France. His force was outnumbered ten to one. Caesar's force was surrounding one army, and was facing another that was approaching. At the crucial moment he led his reserve to destroy the one they were surrounding and then was able to wheel his forces into to position to take on the second army and scatter it. Caesar knew that his men would follow him into Hell after he fought at their side when he didn't have to. That is the mark of a true leader. They guy doesn't have to slay the enemy personally, he just has to be there alongside, taking the same risks. Soldiers respect that. They might follow someone's orders out of loyalty to country, etc. But they will rise above and beyond the call, as it were, for someone they respect and, yes, even love. A leader who stands back and plays it safe all the time will be branded a coward. That will demoralize any army. The attitude becomes, "Why should we fight and die for this guy?" The bottom line is this: Mystara is a magic heavy world. There are vampires, werewolves, dragons, etc. Magic is real. From the lowliest cayman wokani up to the Princes of Glantri or the Lords of Alphatia. From the shaman of the merrow to the Heldannic knights to the rulers of Sind. However, just as there are tanks, heavy artillery, close air support, aerial interdiction, air defense weaponry, and the like today, there remains one truth: A tank or other high-tech weapon can allow you take ground, but only a foot soldier can hold it. Whenn all is said and done, the army must have the common soldier; even though in a high-tech (or high-magic) environment they are very vulnerable. Without them your force is all offense. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Furneaux" To: Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 2:24 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Mass Combat and Magic > > > I really don't like the idea of high magic > > battles. > > > > Yes, but in a high level campaign, you have little > > choice. Either the PCs > > opponents are high level, which equals high magic, > > or the PCs are the most > > powerful guys on the planet > [snip] > > High level does not = high magic. There has to be high > level opponants but they don't have to become involved > unless there is need. Their involvement makes them a > target, but they would not concider themselves > expendable, and so unless they are needed, or the odds > are severly in their favour they would rather sit > back. WHEN PC's get involved they will be needed to > counter the PC's. > > > Yes, but when your cleric friend can just cast raise > > dead fully, what's the > > big deal? In game terms, it doesn't even matter, > > even though PCs never like > > getting killed. Eliminate or severely limit > > bringing back dead characters, > > and you begin to return to low magic. > > only if you win the day. If your forces are driven > from the feild without the character being razed his > body is the victors to do with what they will. If it > is the cleric that dies the greater the loss. To me > magic is not set in stone and in my games I have > introduced counter magic skills as house rules. this > means that one mage and groupies versus non-mages is > very dangerous, but one mage and groupies versus > another mage and groupies is not that dangerous for > the non-mages. This is because the spalls become > negated. Take the movie Willow where the evil (mage) > queen turns the attackers into pigs. the good mage > later returns them to their normal form and casts a > spell of protection so it cannot happen. The normal > men then slug it out. > > > PCs are what I had in mind throughout this whole > > thread. They're always > > looking to take out an enemy leader - that's the way > > the game is set up > > (look at the final showdown in X10, or even in most > > movies or novels, any > > large war ineveitably results in a personal battle > > between the leaders! : ) > > The finally in a movie is not the way in which most > battles are fought, although thats how some of the > more famous ones were fought. What I was saying is > that the high magic battle is not neccecarally the > norm. you would not hear reports of many high level or > commander deaths from most battles but you would hear > troop losses. That would be the norm, however they > would be prepered for the ab-normal. Theres > periodically some prick or hero (like PC's) who decide > it would be smart to get involved. Take alexander the > great for example. It makes your army stronger but > also involves personal risk and even in a world with > raise dead it's still a concern because you don't know > what others would do (though PC's tend to stick > togeather). In movies the battles normally end in > personal combat because the end has to be an end and > if someone didn't die to end it then it'd keep going. > Braveheart exibits my point precicely. The english > leaders don't get involved while William Wallace does > and made major changes to the outcome. The English see > it as bad manners to get involved and so do the > scottish lords. The scottish freemen see it as > nessecary to get involved. > In real life long lasting conflicts have happened. In > Mystara thyatis and alphatia are in constant conflict, > but not decisively mostly for this reason. Because > nobody powerful wants to risk their life to finish it. > PC's do not have the risk factor, and so create a hero > factor and influence the outcome. This eventuallity is > accounted for but my point was it is likely not the > norm. What happens when PC's get involved is good to > discuss, but to me even the war machine says > high-levels don't get involved 'much' because of the > assumption that if you use war machine the PC's will > not be casulties and I extend this rule to other high > level characters too. > > Chris. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 13:13:47 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Caroletti Subject: The Famous Equation of Scaevola MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 3E = POWERGAME [Often] POWERGAME = MUNCHKIN Greetings, S. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 13:13:29 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Greetings! (new to list) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hafnir wrote: > My handle's hafnir, and I'm new to this list. I've been = lurking > for a few weeks to get a feel for the list, and I'd like to start > posting/replying. So I thought I'd start by (hopefully briefly) > introducing myself. Welcome to the list. I hope you'll enjoy your stay, and that you will = have many interesting, non-inflammatory ;) things to say and share with = the rest of us. > I have to say, this list does get more traffic than I'm > usually comfortable with, but I'm going to give this a go. Traffic on this list is irregular to say the least. But I think you will = find that there will often be threads that you have little or no = interest in, that can just be given a cursory glance. > So to get the ball rolling, I've decided I'd like to give the > list a little "present" if you will.=20 > I'm particularly proud of the 1999 BDP > adventure, so I thought I'd start with that. Well, first off, thanks for sharing this adventure with us. It's = obviously taken some time to stitch together. Dropping a bomb of 35 = pages (ok, so it was less, but I had to increase the font size to 10 to = be able to read it) isn't exactly the quickest way of getting replies = and comments (takes a while to read, you know), but I've given it a = quick read, so here goes. First of all, what would really improve the adventure immensely is = pre-rolled characters. You could, quite simply, include the characters = that the adventure was written for. If those characters are too weird = (Immortals and low-level characters mixing) for most players to accept, = rewrite their stats to be more uniform, but keep their backgrounds and = items (particularly the Ghost Ship). This would really work wonders for = the coherency of the adventure, and make it easily playable by any and = all as a stand-alone adventure. DMs wishing to play it with their own = party of characters would then be left with the option of rewriting it. = As it is now, you're forced to do conversions, which is a bad thing. As for the adventure itself. While the adventure is cool with many = interesting situations, you are of course aware that there's so much = campaign-specific material in it that others will find it hard to use = as-is. Naturally you aren't in any way obligated to make the adventure = fit with main-stream Mystara, but it would be nice, since you've chosen = to share this with us, if you either provided alternate ideas for some = of the stranger material, or perhaps expanded on it, so it doesn't come = from "out of the blue". Specifically I'm thinking about things like: - Dark Tongue magics - The Riders of the Gold Drakes - Araneas serving Queen Stillain?!? (Can be easily done away with, = serves no purpose in adventure) - That whole crowning and independence thing (fairly easily changed) And, of course, the ending is rushed and a conclusion missing. You = really should finish it, even if you're low on time. As a whole the = adventure looks really great, and it's nice to see an adventure aimed = for a high power-level (I like the showdown with Orcus a lot!). Anyway, thanks for your "present", and once again: Welcome to the list! Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 21:53:28 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Ancient One Organization: NOLAN P and I Subject: Re: Mass Combat and Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George Hrabovsky wrote: > > Are you suggesting that armies don't need leaders? I think you will find > that troops need to respect their leaders if their morale is to be good. Your points are cogent and excellent, but there needs to be a diferentiation (which there isn't in the rules) between charismatic BATTLEFIELD leaders, a la Warhammer Fantasy Battles wargame, and charismatic national leaders, a la King Stefan of Karameikos. Too often in the War Machine etc. systems inside the D&D system there is a lack of clear rulings on the effects not just of a leader's presence on the battlefield but the effects of the leader's corresponding absence in the homeland or capital. Remember the rest of the Caesarian campaign history - whenever a member of the Triumvirate was absent, the others would undermine him ruthlessly and relentlessly. And of course the example of the historical King Arthur and similar "dark age" leaders, who campaigned away from home and inevitably let rebellious subjects or would-be "emperors" arise behind their lines. This is not a criticism of the previous post, as I think it was an excellent element to add; I am just citing some historio-social background to add to the mix. Perhaps we are drifting towards writing some rules calls to add the Mystara flavour of the homelands' politics back into the battles of the Known World? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 21:56:15 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Ancient One Organization: NOLAN P and I Subject: Re: The Famous Equation of Scaevola MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Caroletti wrote: > > 3E = POWERGAME > [Often] POWERGAME = MUNCHKIN > > Greetings, > S. > :) 3E is the worst of all worlds, as it does indeed (I have played and DMed it) combine elements that can't be shed, and it also forces a particular flavour of play, especially with its sartlingly ugly and almost demonic-looking artwork. As a new (re-)arrival, may I ask if anyone is working on a comprehensive D20 system Mystara, with or without Hasbro sanction? If not, I volunteer to head the project. If so, join me up. :) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 07:16:47 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Mass Combat and Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It is completely true that you cannot separate the political from the military. Wargamers often forget that point. A lot of role-players do also. There is a desire for a "clean" world free of the political mire that we have to deal with. Such campaigns tend to have a sterile feel to them. High level people will have their motivations. Where motivations work against each other, there will be conflict. Good point. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Ancient One" To: Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 11:53 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Mass Combat and Magic > George Hrabovsky wrote: > > > > Are you suggesting that armies don't need leaders? I think you will find > > that troops need to respect their leaders if their morale is to be good. > > Your points are cogent and excellent, but there needs to be a > diferentiation (which there isn't in the rules) between charismatic > BATTLEFIELD leaders, a la Warhammer Fantasy Battles wargame, and > charismatic national leaders, a la King Stefan of Karameikos. Too often > in the War Machine etc. systems inside the D&D system there is a lack of > clear rulings on the effects not just of a leader's presence on the > battlefield but the effects of the leader's corresponding absence in the > homeland or capital. Remember the rest of the Caesarian campaign history > - whenever a member of the Triumvirate was absent, the others would > undermine him ruthlessly and relentlessly. And of course the example of > the historical King Arthur and similar "dark age" leaders, who > campaigned away from home and inevitably let rebellious subjects or > would-be "emperors" arise behind their lines. > > This is not a criticism of the previous post, as I think it was an > excellent element to add; I am just citing some historio-social > background to add to the mix. Perhaps we are drifting towards writing > some rules calls to add the Mystara flavour of the homelands' politics > back into the battles of the Known World? > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 23:13:36 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: erewan laubgaenger Subject: Re: Greetings! (new to list) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hafnir wrote: > Greetings to this fine list! > > My handle's hafnir, and I'm new to this list. I've been lurking > for a few weeks to get a feel for the list, and I'd like to start > posting/replying. So I thought I'd start by (hopefully briefly) > introducing myself. hello Hafnir you will no know me, because i did not much in the past (lot) weeks but i will wecome zou on the list. in the name of the most. it ist good if new people join the list so we get ne informations on topics. so if you have Q. then ask then there will be ever someone that will handle it. so i think i am also back and will write again. IBON ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 22:44:10 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Ancient One Organization: NOLAN P and I Subject: Re: Mass Combat and Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George Hrabovsky wrote: > It is completely true that you cannot separate the political from the > military. Wargamers often forget that point. A lot of role-players do also.There is a desire for a "clean" world free of the political mire that we have to deal with. Such campaigns tend to have a sterile feel to them. High level people will have their motivations. Where motivations work against each other, there will be conflict. Since I run a very high-level campaign (some would say [and have] that it is waaaayy too high level :)]) I can run through some past nonviolent motivations and magic-hampering backgrounding from past wars: The Second Shadow Lord War - the disciple of Lantryn Teriak (sp) arises, seeks to win over the newly-freed Heldannic territories through backing them with necromancy to assist in their "seeking to win the right of self-determination"; this pits good guys against each other based on their desires for the future of the Heldannic territories... Civil war in Glantri - following a deadlocked Council vote, a man claiming to be the direct descendant of Alexander Glantri wangles his own election as the Doge of Glantri - the primus inter partes who can always cast a tiebreaker vote... as he becomes a despot, guild and craft masters begin a vicious programme of civil unrest. Glantri cannot be wiped out by its own rulers, so those rulers stage insurrections, street battles and council votes. This all culminates in a mass breakout from the Tower of Sighs and the death of the Doge in final spell combat... but did he truly die..? etc.etc. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 23:07:22 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Ancient One Organization: NOLAN P and I Subject: "FLUFF" / Adventurer's Journals: JOURNAL OF SARD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------6D7C2E727E5" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6D7C2E727E5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is an adventurer's journal (real one written by a PC) from my Mystara campaign... Enjoy or not, if not it's only a delete key away from nonexistence... I force my players to keep their own notes, preserve clues, translate stuff, etc. ... do the rest of the DMs on the list? --------------6D7C2E727E5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="SARD.TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="SARD.TXT" Journal of Sard Today I arrived at the Town of Threshold, small compared to my home city of Mirros but seeming full of excitement. I performed at the Juggling Ogre for my supper & board plus a miserly offering from the patrons - mostly workers. I met an interesting companion a newly graduated student of magic from Krakatos who like myself (judging from the hem of his robe) had only recently undergone the shearing ceremony. Perhaps we shall seek fame & fortune together. Well we have our first job and possibly adventure. My kind host at the Inn told me that my performing costume could easily get me mistaken for a member of the Iron Circle (appears to be the local Thieves' Guild). Apparently deep purple looks a lot like black in the gloom of his Inn. So it being recently past the Day of Dread I set forth to acquire decorations for my costume. My companion of the night before who appears to be going under the name of 'Idiot' (?) is after a magnifying glass to better read a book he has which is written in a tiny script. I tried to grab a glimpse of this missive, and perhaps learn some magic but to no avail. After purchasing small silver skeletons and a needle and thread (now I appreciate the resources of home) we went in search of a glass. The Darokins were the best merchants to supply the item but the price was well out of the wizard's league. So we offered a deal~~ find a recently stolen (presumed stolen) barge and merchandise and we could have the glass My friend was about to accept their offer (fool) when I stamped on his foot to silence him. Only a wizard who has spent years shut up in study would accept a Darokin's first offer. I managed to negotiate the standard finders fee minus the cost price of the glass. Much better. Fogor Isle. A Ranger by the name of Ruynde should be able to escort us to the area (general) tomorrow. Well we have gained our reward plus an extra 500 gp for information gathered & here is how. We went out with the pretense of gathering silver mugwart for the local nature mage who lives in the loggers camp. Id overheard (I don't think by magical means as no ingredients or hand signals were used) two thieves unloading the barge, so we crept into position to watch. A chancellor (later identified as such) was directing them and indicated 4 bales which were to be delivered to his Threshold address then left. A small time later another thief with piercing blue eyes suddenly appeared in the same clearing. He told the 2 others to finish unloading & then sink the barge in the river & swim back to town. He told them that he & his cell (which we knew to be a lie as there were no others except for us around) would deliver the 4 bales. He then started to cast a spell which Id somehow interrupted by concentrating. The wizard tried again & since Id looked exhausted I mimicked a bird call to disrupt the second spell. Growing very angry he sprinkled the area with a yellowish gnome/fairy dust then pulled out a tiny pyramid & started again. Again I called out adding a pixie "tee hee" at the end and again the spell failed. This time he tried to spy us out using some sort of eye spell & when this failed since we were too well hid he threw down a statue yelling "live" and suddenly a huge black mastiff started to track down our hideaway. Id looked toward the dog but failed to stop it. It ws crashing into our position so I readied my sword and skewered it so although our general area was known we had not broken cover. the wizard pulled out ingredients & started to cast a spell which Id recognised as a fireball. So just before it hit I kicked Id further into the bracken. I tumbled / backflipped in the opposite direction. the wizard summone an invisible servant to deliver the goods, donned a cloak of invisibility & walked from the clearing. By disguising myself as a Traladaran peasant I hired a barge & gondolier to take the rest of the goods & us to the Darokin merchants. We received our reward for the goods & 500gp for the information about the wizard & 4 bales (address which they were delivered to). The Councillor was later found guilty of stealing, etc. Perhaps not our fortunes made but it was certainly a start. We then returned to the loggers camp for the 2nd performance (to complete our disguise) where we heard some very distressing news. Magic dead areas have been appearing in the forests ~~~ 30 feet in diameter, similar to those which appeared around Verge 8 years ago, 1006-1007 similar to a 'Gods Dance' effect. In Verge at the same time a party of adventurers were seeking the Temple of the Frog. Apparently, according to the nature mage Id the areas have had their "Radiance" stripped from them, and it is similar to a wish effect. It is not a natural or spell effect. Id assures of this. This- this is what fame is made of so we equipped ourselves and left with Ryunde to inspect these areas. While equipping for the trek a curious thing happened. I was checking out some shortbows in the loggers camp when I noticed that these were the same bows I had inspected at a Gnome Trader the 2 days before. The bows had to be stolen. I raised the alarm, the thief was detained and found guilty. Mysglor - a Dwarf who is a Highforge representative and trader of some kind then made himself known to me. He rewarded me with a Gnomish kitted shortbow, sturdy Dwarven arrows & a fine Dwarven chainmail. He told me that if I come across any other matters dealing with items from Highforge etc. to see him. We have been travelling now for some days and our Ranger companion has told us of his life. Apparently he used to be a wizard and was part of an adventuring group which stumbled across a 'lost city'. This city was filled with a race that looked human but with bald heads and large gentle brown eyes. They were in fact not a gentle people but fought by looking at each other (similar to Id's magic). Ruynde left the group in the city & brought out wondrous items (which he said gradually lost their enchantment). He has been searching for the entrance ever since. A happy encounter! We are with the forest elves, feasting & drinking & singing. But an adventure lies between here and my last entry. An adventure which saw the loss of a comrade, the gaining of friends and the finding of an enemy both strange and mysterious. We reached the newest dead area and Id established that it was caused by a sphere effect. We were going to investigate it further & Ruyndle went off to search for his city. 2 Things occurred while Id was resting he saw a strange man on the hillside with no hair and gentle bornw eyes. The man looked at us, patted his Ogre companion whome he sent away and then disappeared i n t o the hillside we heard Ruyndles horn which he said is used only in emergencies. We rushed to the spot and found him gone, a small dead area and an angry Treant. Id determined that Ruyndle was kidnapped by a grey skinned creature with straggly black hair, a bulbous forehead and a monkey type face. the creature was now a very long way away. We explained ourselves to the Treant who settled down to think. Then an unnatural silence descended on the woods. These silences had been noticed to precede the appearance of the Dead Spots. We sped to the silence to investigate. We found a silver egg floating in the river tethered by a black cord to the riverbank. A hatch on the side was open and a creature similar to the one which kidnapped Ruynde was on the bank. A battle ensued in which Id and I were victorious and these observations arose from the battle the egg was a vehicle the beings could not speak and used mind magics to communicate the creature wearing a brain helm was the leader & capable of directing all other members of the group the staves the creatures use are dangerous weapons the creatures can in some way direct / affect a person's mind / thoughts when all the crew are dead the egg shuts up & travels back home the leaving of these vehicles causes the dead areas. We captured one of these beings, a staff and a brain helm. Upon questioning the prisoner we found out more information their world has "mentors" and "oards" (they are the oards) oards serve mentors oards are in some way equivalent to golems Radiance (white light) can stop the travel of the eggs mentors are fighting (still!) the wizards of Blackmoor Oardworld needs the stolen products to survive Then the elves came with their leader the treekeeper Ethendol and wanted to kill the prisoner. they started to argue with the Treant who could see the importance of our questioning. The prisoner was dying from our poisonous atmosphere & screamed when he saw the elves. Then he died. Oards don't like Elves. Another silence descended & the elves rushed off, followed by by us & then the Treant. Yet another egg had appeared. The elves called it the "Egg of Koot". Another battle, all Oards killed & the Treant flung the crumpled egg into a dead area, the egg exploded as it failed to travel home. Talking to the elves revealed "Egg of Koot" once descended on Blackmoor for a fierce battle. Blackmoor won the battle and in doing so lost the war Radiance is a secret power which the elves can call upon from nature My mother is a demigoddess of death ! SHE HAS SOME EXPLAINING TO DO!! We captured three more staves and 1 more helm. The helm is needed to pilot an egg and it also acts as a "group mind focus" (?) We now rest & play then we will seek the lost city to answer some questions. These Oards are a threat to the Known World which I feel if left unchecked could bring devastation. With much honour I now bear the name Elf Friend - "Elfwine". We returned to the area in which Id had seen the bald man. Unfortunately we were not alone and the ogre which was with the man before started to hunt us. Surmising that it may have been a door which the man vanished through - an illusion or disguise - I fired a volley of arrows into the hillside. One disappeared. Marking this spot well we ran for the hill, breaking cover and imagining death bearing down on us with every step. It was indeed a door and we suddenly found ourselves in an ancient complex. Perhaps part of the lost city our companion talked of. the door led to a short passageway which opened into a large room full of adventuring equipment, clothes, etc. but no bodies. It appeared that here brains were going to be of some use. In the centre of the room was a large pool. A rock bridge extended almost across it, it ended in a pontoon bridge to allow someone to cross the water. There were ruins which appeared to be Hutaakan in origin. Around the edge of the room were 6 jackal-headed statues each with a different sigil. They are spell storers and hitting the sigil will release a spell. Either side of the entryway are huge statues of sitting jackals in sphinx-like poses. Inscriptions in the ancient Traladaran alphabet are on the sides of the guardian jackal statues. In the waterlived some sort of weed monster which can cause you to give up & join them, to die. After examining the spell storers and killing one of the weed monsters with fire we moved on. Id could sense a battle ahead and saw remotely the death of a band of people at the claws of a Dragon, a black dragon. We carefully approached the eye room. The eyes were in fact a type of stone resembling feldspar, but not. We avoided the dragon and sneaked past. We kept left at the sign telling us to do so. However nothing warned us about the spiders and a horrific battle ensued. Id was poisoned and cocooned up. By using oil & fire on the webs I was able to drag him away and around the corner to the stairs area. There I poured out oil & readied a torch in case they came. I did not yet venture up the stairs as Id had not awoken. The spiders rushed our camp and after lighting the oil we had to retreat up the stairs and close the doors on them. The stairs led to an older part of the complex and the rooms beyond were serviced by small black capped creatures who were normally invisible. After equipping ourselves we found the settlement which we had been looking for..! The bald brown-eyed people came to meet us and asked of our reasons for journey. So we explained of our quest to gather information of the Oards and that perhaps the inhabitants of the lost city could help us. They laughed and explained that this settlement was merely an outpost for their race and was most certainly not the lost city our friend had yearned to return to. However they knew of the Oards and would share their information with us. They confirmed that time travel was used by the creatures to reach us and that by sealing our time stream off we could stop them. This could be achieved by using the Hand of Time found in the Temple of Time. The Hand is an item made by the Immortals and by using it to temporarily disrupt the timestream the mentors' plan would be defeated. The Hand is sometimes called the "Key of Time" and is in the Temple to the Immortals of Time which is located in the Southern foothills of Darokin. The Hand is a huge golden hand twice the size of a man and is usually found mounted on an elaborate staff. Touching this hand ages you up to a century instantly. This was all related by one man called Primus the Voice~. They appeared not to need to speak to one another. They were impressed with Id's mind magics and took him to the central building to study. Me they kind of left alone. I learned black cap songs from their helpers and traded with Peltro a Deep Dwarf agent. I got a mug for Mysglor and a newly minted Nithian copper piece as well as a platinum piece with a hill on one side & a war hammer on the other. When the Deep Dwarves saw the staves Id had gained from the Oards they desparately tried to trade for them, calling them "Orishes". We refused. We started to make our way out of the complex. We made it but only after battling dragon minions and Deep Dwarf agents. On to Threshold! Back in Threshold we began preparations to travel to seek the Temple of Time. We decided to go as traders across the foothills and thus hopefully pass unnoticed but first I researched what I could in Threshold. Id went to the magic school. We only found a fragment mentioning Eltan's Journey and the information that "the eyes of frostkeep look down on to the temple of time". We had to travel to frostkeep to solve the cryptic puzzle. Frostkeep according to local knowledgehad become the base for a group of clerics who according to Brother Chan (a wandering monk) were not good. Townsfolk had been disappearing etc. A group of elves camping nearby told us of a lower level to the keep which was used by the monks to dispose of people. We set out and travelled without incident to the Frostkeep area. There was a way in, of which we learnt. This way was lower down the mountainside up a flue or chimney in the rock. Our actions and the influence of a local Immortal via a shamaness in the local settlement of Tarnsmere brought the situation to a head and the monks invaded the nearby town. We could not stand idly by and rallying the other traders we battled off the monks and freed the town. Subsequent checking of the keep showed that the monks were worshipping "larmistal", a devil of the 5th Circle. The men and women of the holy order had strayed far. We broke the focus and freed the keep, as well as finding our way to the dark temple. "BETWEEN THE THRONE AND THE NET WISDOM AN AGE SHALL BEGET" We were given two keys by the people of not Tarnsmere but now Whitemere which helped us greatly. By the time we were ready for final battle to enter Frostkeep Brother Chan and a champion from Mirros had arrived and they accompanied us. On our journey to the Temple of Time we discovered that "blue eyes" the wizard rogue from our first adventure was also trying to reach it and was throwing obstacles on our path. He arrived alone at the temple, injured and bleeding. We met the Lupin guardians and passed without misadventure. To enter the valley we needed a way to keep back the vegetation - fire worked. "Unliving guardians sleep / your trust no longer binds you" Red button opens door to the Key. We briefly imprisoned blue eyes and spoke to him. It turned out he was a wizard from a (not "the" ???) future who was trying to get back by using the Key~. We didn't let him and he escaped back to Threshold. The Key was used and all was saved... MUCH REJOICING! (& profit, from our trade~!) We have become palatines, protectors of Whitemere and have a base of sorts to call home. We have both come a long way from the Shearing. I wonder what fate has in store !!! TIME IS TIME WAS --------------6D7C2E727E5-- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 09:40:10 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Aerial Defense MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit okay....out of a period of Asheron's Call induced lurker mode again. having spent the last few days going through a bevy of mail these large scale combat threads caught my eye. as a wargamer some of the discussed has been used in various scenarios. so...for what it is worth...here are some of my own thoughts on the matters at hand. i actually have some materials in the works for magic, warfare, etc. and the given comes from that bit of work. Air Defense- normal ballistae do have a limited range. also, the AA would be firing upwards further limiting effective altitude range. as the projectile rises, it loses momentum/kinetic energy. successful hits during the expanse of its range would cause lessening damage. for example, say a ballista has a range of 1000yards. an attacking aerial vessel hovers 990 yards over a defended area. the ballistae batteries open up and watch as their projectiles slow as they approach the vessel those hit the hull underside mostly bounce off since their energy has been depleted during the high trajectory flight. ironically, misses and ineffective hits are going to come down, perhaps down upon the heads of the defenders; friendly fire. magic weapons also have limited ranges. a good number of applicable offensive spells would be hard-pressed to rise above the spires of the buildings that the defenses are defending. luckily their energy seems to remain constant and dissipates at the end of their range. so there is less a chance of friendly fire accidents. magic based arty requires magic proficient crews. IMO this can be circumvented by adding intricate trigger mechanisms (fantasy physics) to fire them. applicable in both magic and mundane arty is the weapon's targeting and gun laying mechanisms. targeting would be mostly line of sight and within visual range. bringing the arty to bear on a target would be based on cranks and pulleys. traversing and elevating would be slow and innaccurate. add to this that the target could be moving...even slightly....would throw off the aim immensely. one can look at canon rules to see the affect of range and moving targets to the chance of hit. IMO the best defense against an aerial attacker is to send troops up there to counter the threat. this can be aerial vessels, riders on flying beasts, magically teleported units. IMO this boarding and hand to hand fighting tactic is better for the typical RPG game. this way the PCs can be directly involved and act without leaving the defenses to NPC crews of arty batteries. of course one must remember that an aerial vessel will have a contingent of marines, crew and mid-high level spellcasters. in many ways it is a flying fortress. for example the Alpher Man-of-War has a crew comparable to the populations of most towns. even in modern terms, the best defense against bombardment is liberal use of cubic feet of good old dirt. this is not exactly easy for towns and most fortifications. let's face it, the typical fantasy castle/fortified city was not engineered with aerial threats in mind. these threats simply did not exist with their models (medeival/rennassaince era castles). if you look at the evolution of fort designs you notice that the layouts and engineering changes. personally i do not want a Mystara filled with late 18th-19th century styled forts (Ft. Ticonderoga, Ft. Sumter). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 09:40:19 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Aerial Bombardment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit okay....out of a period of Asheron's Call induced lurker mode again. having spent the last few days going through a bevy of mail these large scale combat threads caught my eye. as a wargamer some of the discussed has been used in various scenarios. so...for what it is worth...here are some of my own thoughts on the matters at hand. i actually have some materials in the works for magic, warfare, etc. and the given comes from that bit of work. Aerial Bombardment- whatever the weapons platform used, aerial bombardment is fairly easy. accuracy is questionable to specific targets. attacks would be saturation strikes in general areas. to engage specific targets the aerial vessel would have to maneuver in close and hit. projectiles could be as simplistic as varying size stones being tossed over the side. burning oil and other area affect attacks could easily come into play. burning oil was used in WotI by the HKs against the town of Haldemar in HW. i would also add that the DragonLord Trilogy also sees the dragons dropping rocks and bolders from very high altitudes. this allowed them to operate useen and beyond the feasible range of the dragonlord's sword (beam weapon). this change was so serious that the glantrian mages crafted the flying cape to allow the dragonlord to go aerial. crafty commanders could implement unorthodox projectiles such as dead animals, excrement, etc. to promote disease or unpleasantness. yuck!!! even ballstae and catapults mounted onboard could be used against ground targets. with high altitudes and gravity working with them, aerial borne arty could be used to cover wide areas extending out beyond the normal ranges of a land bound weapon; the projectiles would keep traveling outward as until they hit the ground. this bombardment would also be saturation type attacks. for more specific attacks the vessel would have to manuever and give broadside type attacks at lower altitudes. i could probably argue that the Alphatians would have tactics already established. afterall, they have been using the skyships the longest. it would also verify why Thyatis has traditionally placed such a high priority in countering the Alphatian skyship fleets. IMO the aerial attacker has a definite advantage in any attack on a groundbased defenseworks. from their lofty vantage points they can operate with little threat from ground defenders. they are mobile so they can move about. the underlying analogy is tried and true throughout military history; outrange your enemy. you hit them before they can hit you. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 10:47:09 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D Dan wrote: >BTW, speaking of weapon mastery I have some house rules that I use to >balance out the advantage that it gives to fighters. Someday I'll post the >whole the system, but basically, spell casters get to use their INT bonus >per die of damage (up to the max for that die, i.e. can't exceed 6 on a d6), >and as a penalty on saves. Then there is spell mastery to improve range, >duration, and penalize saves. It works quite well. And 18 INT MUs become >that much more powerful, as opposed to only having a whole 3 more languages, >wooo hoooo!!! I'd *really* be interested in seeing this! Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 11:56:03 -0300 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Rodrigo Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, could anyone send me the statistic for the following attributes I'm without my players handbook for a while :)) Str 14 Dx 12 Iq 16 Ch 10 Wis 9 Cons 16 Thanks folks!! Geoff Gander wrote: > Dan wrote: > > >BTW, speaking of weapon mastery I have some house rules that I use to > >balance out the advantage that it gives to fighters. Someday I'll post the > >whole the system, but basically, spell casters get to use their INT bonus > >per die of damage (up to the max for that die, i.e. can't exceed 6 on a d6), > >and as a penalty on saves. Then there is spell mastery to improve range, > >duration, and penalize saves. It works quite well. And 18 INT MUs become > >that much more powerful, as opposed to only having a whole 3 more languages, > >wooo hoooo!!! > > I'd *really* be interested in seeing this! > > Geoff > > -- > Geoff Gander, BA 97 > Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon > Carnifex Loremaster > au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 16:51:26 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Domains of Ostland - Clan Domain of Gotland MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Once again it's time to revisit Ostland for the 18th domain. Previous = installments in this series may be found both at the Vaults of Pandius = (Geography - Known World - Ostland, I think) or at my personal home = pages at http://www.scythe.hjem.wanadoo.dk/Mystara.htm ,which also contain the Artifacts of the Modrigswerg created so far. Keep in mind that this info is written for OD&D using rules for = Personality Traits from GAZ7 (The Northern Reaches), and that it is set = in the year AC 1000. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk --- THE CLAN DOMAIN OF GOTLAND Gotland is among the largest of the domains of Ostland. It lies near the = western end of Noslo Island in the Kingdom of Ostland, on the northern = part of Zea Bay. The domain encompasses four clear hexes, seven hexes of = hills, and two hexes of forested hills. The farmlands are decent, and = some hunting takes place in the hills, but the domain subsists mainly on = fishing. Wood is imported from other domains, since it is extremely = scarce. Foreigners may enter the domain, especially merchants trading = wood. Other Ostlanders will be welcome most anywhere in the domain, = though some hill-land communities may resent intrusions. Clan Gotland = employs spies in various nations and raids where the most riches are to = be found. Head of Domain: Jarl Mord the Greedy rules this domain. His great hall = is in the village of Bergfors. Population: 6000 people can be found in Gotland. 1200 of these are = thralls, 3300 are non-warrior freemen, and 1500 are warriors. 3200 = people are armed and capable in a fight. BERGFORS This large village (480 inhabitants) lies sheltered inside Zea Bay, = across from Zeaburg. It is surrounded by farmlands, and is not = particularly well protected. Jarls of Gotland have traditionally relied = on personal combat to defeat their opponents. Bergfors is a harbortown, = and a fairly large merchant ship is capacle of docking and unloading = goods at the harbor. BAKKEDYB The village of Bakkedyb (Hillsdeep) is notorious among Ostlanders for = its inhospitality. Travellers will almost always be turned away by any = of the 50 inhabitants, regardless of their plight. The Bakkedyb clan = does not marry outsiders and is considered inbred and strange by = neighbouring communities. The clan of Bakkedyb is actually a community = of Adaptors that have settled here in the relatively isolated and = peaceful hills of Gotland. The community in fact numbers around 200 = members, but at any time 150 of these will be travelling elsewhere. = Numerous caves contain most of their dwellings, and they are always = careful to disguise their features when above ground, since the = Ostlanders would most likely chase them from these lands if they knew of = their true nature. MORD THE GREEDY Chaotic 12th level Fighter (Str 13, Int 10, Wis 8, Dex 5, Con 17, Cha = 13, AC -2, hp 76) Personality Traits: Modest/Proud 3/17, Generous/Greedy 2/18, = Forgiving/Vengeful 4/16, Honest/Deceitful 5/15, Trusting/Suspicious 3/17 43 years old, Shortly cropped black hair, Brown eyes Mord was the only son of the late jarl, though he has several cousins. = He was groomed to inherit the position of jarl, and grew up expecting to = be given anything he wanted. This trait has stayed with him, and he = became known as "the Greedy". Eventually the day came, when his father = died, and Mord took his birthright: The powerful magical item known as = The Endless Ring. This ring had been passed through many generations, = and was well known for its unpredictable powers that had protected clan = Gotland through many desperate times. Mord settled for ruling his domain = absolutely, and spent years raking in treasures from his subjects, = secure in his position. Both assassination attempts and smaller riots = have been attempted, but Mord foiled them all, partially through the use = of his ring. A year ago now, Mord was the subject of another attempted = assassination. He held up the ring prominently, expecting his attacker = to be struck down by its magic, but with a quick strike, the unknown = assailant severed Mord's finger from his hand. Grabbing the finger (and = the ring), the attacker then fled. The terrified Mord gathered greedy = warriors about him, and has been paying them large sums to protect him, = now that his ring is gone. For a year Mord has been searching for the = ring and he has promised an outrageous amount of treasure for its = return. He has also placed (or bought) spies in various ports, and get = news when ships carrying valuable cargo enter or leave these harbors. He = will then stage raids to obtain more treasure. Since the loss of The Endless Ring, Mord has been afraid to enter = battle, though he is a competent fighter. He simply trusted so much in = the power of the ring, and feels very inadequate without its protection. = He wears plate mail+2 during all his waking hours, as well as a = shield+2, and carries a sword+1. Mord has never married, but has many mistresses, who are attracted to = his wealth and power. He has several children, but hasn't named any of = them his successor, and is in no hurry to do so. OFEIG OF BAKKEDYB Lawful Adaptor (Int 18, AC 9, HD 8, hp 43) Personality Traits: Cautious/Rash 19/1, Reverent/Godless 2/18, = Energetic/Lazy 17/3, Trusting/Suspicious 2/18, Loyal/Unreliable 19/1 Appears to be 50 years old (actual age 438), White hair and beard, Grey = eyes The leader of the Adaptors of Bakkedyb, "Ofeig" handles all = communication with outsiders, as well as the day-by-day running of the = community. He is an experienced traveller, both of this world and of the = outer planes. It was Ofeig, who chose this area as the secret base of = this clan of Adaptors. These Adaptors have been gathering information = both on Ostland and on many neighbouring nations for the last two = centuries. Ofeig is a master of rune magic, and knows more runes than = any other being in the Northern Reaches. Though he will readily share = his knowledge with his clan, no outsiders will ever gain any knowledge = from the Adaptors, unless they somehow aid the Adaptors in a matter of = life and death, and come seeking specific information. Other clans of = Adaptors may exchange knowledge with this clan, and meetings are held = once a decade or so. Ofeig is the lifeblood of his clan, and all clan members will protect = him with their lives. As an Adaptor, Ofeig is hard to harm, though. He = is able to change his shape to any humanoid sized creature (though not = specific individuals). When exposed to any environment, he will "adapt" = to it, and remain immune to any harmful effect of that environment. If = not exposed to that environment, the immunity fades in 1d10 turns. For = example, if hit by a Fireball, Ofeig will be immune to fire for the next = 1d10 turns, prolonged with another 1d10 turns if hit by fire within that = time. Ofeig is also an accomplished swordsman and fights using a strange = scimitar+3 (may be treated as a normal sword) at a +4 bonus to hit and = damage rolls. The love life of an Adaptor follows the Elven model, and Ofeig is = currently mated for the third time. Many of the Bakkedyb Adaptors are = his children and one of his former mates still lives there. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 11:58:13 -0300 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Rodrigo Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wow, I almost forgot, for the second edition, OK? Rodrigo wrote: > Hi, could anyone send me the statistic for the following attributes > I'm without my players handbook for a while :)) > > Str 14 > Dx 12 > Iq 16 > Ch 10 > Wis 9 > Cons 16 > > Thanks folks!! > > Geoff Gander wrote: > > > Dan wrote: > > > > >BTW, speaking of weapon mastery I have some house rules that I use to > > >balance out the advantage that it gives to fighters. Someday I'll post the > > >whole the system, but basically, spell casters get to use their INT bonus > > >per die of damage (up to the max for that die, i.e. can't exceed 6 on a d6), > > >and as a penalty on saves. Then there is spell mastery to improve range, > > >duration, and penalize saves. It works quite well. And 18 INT MUs become > > >that much more powerful, as opposed to only having a whole 3 more languages, > > >wooo hoooo!!! > > > > I'd *really* be interested in seeing this! > > > > Geoff > > > > -- > > Geoff Gander, BA 97 > > Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon > > Carnifex Loremaster > > au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 01:16:45 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Ancient One Organization: NOLAN P and I Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Str 14 wt allowed 55 max press 170 open doors 8 bb/lg 7% Dx 12 nil Iq 16 #languages 5 max spell level 8 learn spell 65% max# spells 11 Ch 10 #of hrnchmen 4 max; nil all else Wis 9 20% chance of spell failure, nil all else Cons 16 +2 hits sys shock 95% resurrect 96% nil all else ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 12:29:40 -0300 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Rodrigo Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Really thanks!! :)) The Ancient One wrote: > Str 14 wt allowed 55 max press 170 open doors 8 bb/lg 7% > Dx 12 nil > Iq 16 #languages 5 max spell level 8 learn spell 65% max# spells 11 > Ch 10 #of hrnchmen 4 max; nil all else > Wis 9 20% chance of spell failure, nil all else > Cons 16 +2 hits sys shock 95% resurrect 96% nil all else > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 01:37:46 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Ancient One Organization: NOLAN P and I Subject: XENA/HERCULES in the Hollow World MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone done a Xena / Hercules adventure or campaign in the Hollow World? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 01:44:54 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Ancient One Organization: NOLAN P and I Subject: NEW ARTEFACT (or ARTIFACT): The Ring of the Green Flame MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE RING OF THE GREEN FLAME Power Points: 62 Purpose: to assist in the defence of the realms of Mystara and its local sector of time and space Requirements: to wield this artefact a mortal needs to have tremendous Willpower Powers: the Ring can create nearly any physical object, usually attached to the ring by a green energy tentacle. The object formed can be up to the size of a Bigby's Hand spell (20-25 feet) or considerably larger if the user can make a check on half the average of their intelligence and wisdom scores. The Ring can also be commanded to create a magical field around the user that functions like a combination of stone skin, necklace of adaptation and a paladin's holy aura. History: the origin of the ring is shrouded in time but it is at least as old as Blackmoor and is believed to have been fashioned from an unique meteorite in the ages before Blackmoor arose. Sphere of Origin: Matter, tolerant of Energy, hostile to Entropy, neutral towards Time and Thought - the item has no intellect but has a strong alignment of Lawful (+Good in AD&D). Immortals responsible for creation: it is not known who or what made the meteorite or whether it was part of some Immortal residence annihilated by the great Old Ones or what the true origin of the "green crystal" was. Enemy immortals who have been defeated by the ringwielder include Orcus, Coyote, Alphaks and Larmysstul. (for those not in the know: this is a version of Green Lantern's ring!) tired of being awake? visit us online at welcome.to/nolanbooks ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 12:19:05 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: The Famous Equation of Scaevola In-Reply-To: <3B132BEF.2FD1@hotkey.net.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 28 May 2001, The Ancient One wrote: > it) combine elements that can't be shed, and it also forces a particular > flavour of play, especially with its sartlingly ugly and almost > demonic-looking artwork. Wow.. Basing flavor of play on the artwork in the PHB and not the imagination of the players and the DM is a bad way to do anything. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 02:38:47 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Ancient One Organization: NOLAN P and I Subject: Re: The Famous Equation of Scaevola MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SteelAngel wrote: > > On Mon, 28 May 2001, The Ancient One wrote: > > > it) combine elements that can't be shed, and it also forces a particular > > flavour of play, especially with its startlingly ugly and almost > > demonic-looking artwork. > "Wow.. Basing flavor of play on the artwork in the PHB and not the imagination of the players and the DM is a bad way to do anything. Ethan" To me the artwork is not the be all and end all of a game or its inspiration (obviously I would have thought) but as the artwork of any illustrated publication can only be presumed to be there to help explain and illustrate the text, it begs the question of what if anything is beign added by the surprised/incontinent/afraid warrior face, the curiously malformed demihumans and the frankly bizarre bondage gear approach to armour worn by some of the female characters. As a single interpretation of the game as a whole then this artwork is neither here no there, just one more odd reflection of the rules; as the primary illustration for those who lack their own artistic ability, these pictures will indeed be the basis of the game. How could they be anything else? And in fact are these pictures not meant to fulfill this purpose exactly? If I buy a game about a real or i m a g i n e d war of which I know nothing, then whatever the profundities of the depths of my own imagination the basic "fuel" for future dreams and nightmares of the new game will be the artwork. Hence artwork's central place in all modern mainstream mass-release games. It is not a question of lacking imagination. The artwork of a game is part of the communication of the game designer's own imagination. Or so I would logically conclude. Perhaps I am particularly unimaginative and obtuse in my thought patterns. ... ... NAAAAAHHHHH! :) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 17:27:08 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Mystara 3E Convert Me Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >Feats are cool. Feats are gimmicky. In the end the DM always has the power >of >life and death over his players though in the game though, so its a rather >moot point even in 3E. The increased power level of the PCs has been more >of >a telling point in giving the players bragging rights and niche >specializations rather than actually effecting my ability to kill them all >off. I suppose if you wanted to run a 3E game where the players were >significantly lower power than the monsters and at a severe disadvantage >you >could always make the players make up characters using the NPC classes in >the >DMG like Commoner and Warrior (A really lame duck fighter). As for the >ability increases, thats not affected game play at all. I mean, not at all >at >all, half the players spend their ability increases in spellcaster root >attributes to make sure they can cast spells of appropriate levels later on >and the other half "fix" the negative modifier attributes that they started >with. Finally, monks are fun. Monks are balanced in the new system (IMO at >least), and they have rather severe limitations. Monks add a sort of hong >kong action theatre/bar brawl feel to the game sometimes. You can always >leave them out if their flavor doesn't suit you. > >Basically, its easy to kill players. Admit it, the party is first level and >they walk out of the stereotypical bar. You blast them with dragon breath, >chuckle under your knuckles about cool random encounters and tell them to >roll up new characters. Its easy, the new game does operate under the >assumption that characters in the game are a bit more heroic than your >average joe. There is no default "your characters are just like everyone >else >except you get to go on cool adventures" since the DMG makes (rightly I >think) the decision that the "normal guys" (the NPC classes) wouldn't stand >much of a chance in the default power level of the game. > Don't worry about me im an experienced DM of many years. I know how and that I can kill PCs. I have a very good reputation has a DM since one of my players from another group ( which we don't play anymore ) asked me to come DM his new group so I could show it's DM how good I was :) I have just read the PHB I must admit some rules are pretty cool. But the thing I don't like about feats is having to create some for monsters while playing because I rolled a random encounter and player gaining more and more. Anyway, I'll think this out. Altough the options of having 2 campaigns would be cool ( as someone suggested ), we would all do this when we were teenagers ( I play with most of the same player's which Ive played the last 12 years with ), in fact we sometimes had 3 active campaigns. Now time is harder to find. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 12:09:42 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Castle Defenses Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I find most adventures are typical barricades against the generic = adventuring party. But what about a hit and tatics squad? I one of my = campaign adventures, the PC's hit the hold out like a swat team. The = adventure was laid out for a sneaky entrance and exploring the house. The = PC's stormed the place like a SWAT team, shooting first and asking = questions later. On top of this the team had made Molotov cocktails and = were using repeating crossbows. Needless to say the den of thieves came to = an abrupt end. The PC's were supposed to ask the leader where the hidden = artifact was, but they killed him. How do you handle overly aggressive = parties? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 19:26:56 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Mass Combat and Magic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >A more immediately movie-relevant example would be the behaviour of the >major players in Lord of the Rings (LOTR hereafter)- Sauron sits in >Mordor in the hub of a vast network of evil; Saruman can't bear not to >interfere directly - and dies because of it; Gandalf also dies due to >his own interference (although *something* resurrects him...); even the >future King comes close to dying on his "path up the levels". The >sophisticated background to LOTR means there is plenty to do - diplomacy >for example. You didnt read the same LOTR as I did... could you point to me how Saruman death at the hands of Wormtongue at the end of the book as anything to do with Saruman involvement in the war of the ring which has ended at this point. Saruman could as well have been killed in Orthanc by Wormtongue or another servant which he treats as bad. Also Saruman didn't leave Orthanc during the war as did Sauron in Mordor. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 16:00:29 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Geoff, I will try to write up the Weapon Mastery/spell mastery house rules that I use sometime this week. It should prove useful (or at least interesting) to OD&D gamers, esp. those with higher level campaigns. Gotta run. Playing my HW campaign tonight, first game in 2 months! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Gander" To: Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Mystara3E vs OD&D > Dan wrote: > > >BTW, speaking of weapon mastery I have some house rules that I use to > >balance out the advantage that it gives to fighters. Someday I'll post the > >whole the system, but basically, spell casters get to use their INT bonus > >per die of damage (up to the max for that die, i.e. can't exceed 6 on a d6), > >and as a penalty on saves. Then there is spell mastery to improve range, > >duration, and penalize saves. It works quite well. And 18 INT MUs become > >that much more powerful, as opposed to only having a whole 3 more languages, > >wooo hoooo!!! > > I'd *really* be interested in seeing this! > > Geoff > > -- > Geoff Gander, BA 97 > Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon > Carnifex Loremaster > au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 14:07:03 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Mass Combat and Magic In-Reply-To: <019401c0e765$983817e0$8b39abd0@tds.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- George Hrabovsky wrote: > Are you suggesting that armies don't need leaders? I > think you will find > that troops need to respect their leaders if their > morale is to be good. agreed. > [snip]If this is done at a crucial moment it can be > decisive. see below... > Caesar knew that his men would follow him into Hell > after he fought at their > side when he didn't have to. That is the mark of a > true leader. I don't know if "didn't have to" is the phrase I would use. I don't doubt the need for leaders to have to show their stuff, but not every battle, only at vital moments. This gives the troops respect for them, but what I have been saying is that they will only get involved when it is needed, not cause they can. As far as I can tell your exaple just backs up my case. It appears to be an example of extenuating circumstances forcing the hand of the leader, rather then the leader going into battle all the time. To me there exists a certain amount of respect between most leaders and when there is the are not so eagar to kill one another. Take alexander again, he wanted king Darius alive, not dead. He had respect. Most movie conflicts are based around some evil guy, or representitive of, at the head of enemy who has to be taken out to "free", "win", "acomplish some goal", etc... This is not your standard conflict or war for land between nobles, it is more of an epic conflict. I'm not putting down epic conflicts, just saying they don't happen everyday. > They might follow > someone's orders out of loyalty to country, etc. But > they will rise above > and beyond the call, as it were, for someone they > respect and, yes, even love. no arguement, just it is not always neccecary to have those that will go above and beyond. (good but not vital) > A leader who stands back and plays it safe all the > time will be branded a > coward. That will demoralize any army. The attitude > becomes, "Why should we > fight and die for this guy?" "For really good money." "Double or triple pay for those willing to break up that pike formation with big-ass two handed swords" So I think you vision of "demoralize any army" is a gross genralization. Provided the unit leaders engage with the troops and the force commanders ocationally do so too and these are loyal to the general/king whatever, your morale will be fine. > However, just as > there are tanks, heavy artillery, close air support, > aerial interdiction, > air defense weaponry, and the like today, there > remains one truth: A tank or > other high-tech weapon can allow you take ground, > but only a foot soldier > can hold it. tanks, heavy artillery, close air support are all mechanical weapons based around the common soldier (your average joe) and giving him tools, not around rich aristocrats or highly educated wizards. My point was that they have more they can do with their lives then the average joe and so have more reson to live, survive, and not get involved. Therfore my reasoning is that the "norm" for ground warfare is not high magic warfare akin to modern war, but it does happen sometimes. The use of skyships and such are a whole other issue. Did I make myself clear enough that time. I'm not saying things can't go the way you propone sometimes but that IMO there are simple reasons with historical precident why that would not be normal. Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 21:46:34 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: OD&D Modules Location Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From various source I think I was able to tie monsters from DMR2 Creature Catalogue with some OD&D modules I don't have. I plan on using these monsters even tough I don't have the modules. Since these modules may come available for ESD download sometime to non-us citizens I wanted to know where some of them took place so that if I downloaded them later and used the modules when they came out, my placement of my quest was similar to the modules. I think the Kara-Kara venerate Were Swines in module X8 Drums on Fire mountains which is supposed to be set in Thyatis/Sea of Dread. Where is this set exactly ? I don't know where the Man, Isolated, Qauriks are from tough. From what modules are they and where is it set ? I know that Man, Isolated, Cynidiceans are from B4 the lost city and I know where they are extacly in Ylaruam. I know that Man, Isolated, Traldar are from B10 Night's Dark Terror from the Lost valley in Karameikos ( which is shown on the maps ) along with Hutakaans. Anything else I should know ( more monsters/quest, or some important plot info on some of the mentionned monsters ) ? Any help would be greatly appreciated. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 23:09:33 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Class Titles Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Is there anywhere I can find 1e and 2e class titles per level. (Acolyte, Priest, etc.) And, do they have such titles in 3e? Angelo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 16:51:12 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Class Titles Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you can get your hands on Player's Hanbook , Strategy and Tatics = Options it lists them all in there, as well as what weapons for what type = of setting and period. >>> abertoll@HOTMAIL.COM 05/28/01 04:09PM >>> Is there anywhere I can find 1e and 2e class titles per level. (Acolyte, Priest, etc.) And, do they have such titles in 3e? Angelo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com=20 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp=20 The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/=20 To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 23:53:46 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Class Titles Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >Is there anywhere I can find 1e and 2e class titles per level. (Acolyte, >Priest, etc.) And, do they have such titles in 3e? > >Angelo > There are no such class titles for 2E and 3E to my knowledge. I have tons of 2E stuff and never found anything like this. Only in some OD&D stuff and in some internet 2E stuff did I find class titles. Anyway, I have never been a fan of those. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 17:21:51 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: larry lamb Subject: Re: Class Titles In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii thee are level titles in the class handbooks, but there the same ones as in the 1st edition titles in the PH. I sugest that you use histry to deturmin class titles. --- Gilles Leblanc wrote: > > > >Is there anywhere I can find 1e and 2e class titles > per level. (Acolyte, > >Priest, etc.) And, do they have such titles in 3e? > > > >Angelo > > > > There are no such class titles for 2E and 3E to my > knowledge. I have tons of > 2E stuff and never found anything like this. Only in > some OD&D stuff and in > some internet 2E stuff did I find class titles. > Anyway, I have never been a > fan of those. > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > http://www.hotmail.com. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ===== The "Fighting Bunnys" main site: http://www.angelfire.com/on2/myrobotechgames/index.html To group site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RobotechGame __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 11:47:22 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Ancient One Organization: NOLAN P and I Subject: Re: Mass Combat and Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gilles Leblanc wrote: > > >A more immediately movie-relevant example would be the behaviour of the > >major players in Lord of the Rings (LOTR hereafter)- Sauron sits in > >Mordor in the hub of a vast network of evil; Saruman can't bear not to > >interfere directly - and dies because of it; Gandalf also dies due to > >his own interference (although *something* resurrects him...); even the > >future King comes close to dying on his "path up the levels". The > >sophisticated background to LOTR means there is plenty to do - diplomacy > >for example. > > You didnt read the same LOTR as I did... could you point to me how Saruman > death at the hands of Wormtongue at the end of the book as anything to do > with Saruman involvement in the war of the ring which has ended at this > point. Saruman could as well have been killed in Orthanc by Wormtongue or > another servant which he treats as bad. Also Saruman didn't leave Orthanc > during the war as did Sauron in Mordor. Saruman's petty desire to take revenge personally in the Shire is what puts him in harm's way. If you recall, Sauron is in Mordor 100% of the time - it is his "shadow" that extends across the land. Sauron's attention is diverted by the battle at Pelennor Fields at the crucial moment when otherwise he may have finally stepped into the "adventure" personally at Mount Doom. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 21:47:38 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: The Famous Equation of Scaevola MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "The Ancient One" > > As a new (re-)arrival, may I ask if anyone is working on a comprehensive > D20 system Mystara, with or without Hasbro sanction? > If not, I volunteer to head the project. If so, join me up. :) To join up, just send an e-mail to mystara3e@yahoogroups.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 19:17:30 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: The Famous Equation of Scaevola On Mon, 28 May 2001 13:13:47 +0200, Caroletti wrote: >3E = POWERGAME >[Often] POWERGAME = MUNCHKIN > > LOL. I would dearly love to agree, since I'm no big fan of 3e (and since we then have an Alphatian and a Thyatian agreeing, I guess that makes it a fact ;) - that's The Stalker's equation, at least), but I fear it's not quite that simple in the end. After all, I use 2e Player Option rules, and they are definitely powergames! In fact, 3e is toned down compared to the Player Option rules, so is would you call my campaign munchkin? My players certainly didn't think so last when half the group had their magical items taken away by bounty hunters and were then sold into slavery! ;) - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 22:59:39 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: OD&D Modules Location MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Gilles Leblanc" > > I don't know where the Man, Isolated, Qauriks are from tough. From what > modules are they and where is it set ? As near as I can tell, they are from no module. Take your pick of any icy location in northern Brun or northern Skothar. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 23:04:31 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: The Famous Equation of Scaevola MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Caroletti" > > 3E = POWERGAME > [Often] POWERGAME = MUNCHKIN As I understand it, the "Munchkin" equation is actually more complicated: MUNCHKIN = POWERGAME (PCs) plus DUMB_WEAK_PLAY (DMs/monsters) If you boost the power level of both sides, you simply intensify the game. If you boost the power level of the DM/monsters only, you are a "killer DM". If you boost the power level of the PCs but keep the monsters at a lower level of power, then the "Munchkin" equation kicks in.... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 23:10:43 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Castle Defenses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Joe Kelly" > > The PC's were supposed to ask the leader where the hidden artifact > was, but they killed him. How do you handle overly aggressive parties? Give them a taste of mission failure. Maybe have his dying words be, "Wait! Don't kill me! I'll tell you where the artifact....", and then he falls over dead. If the artifact is in the place they just cleaned out, then they should have a reasonable chance to find it -- but if it is elsewhere, they now have no clue where to find it. What happens if they fail to find that artifact? Well, if in your adventure nobody but the bandit leader knew where it was, they are about to find out the consequences of such a failure.... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 23:17:04 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Mystara 3E Convert Me MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Gilles Leblanc" > > I have just read the PHB I must admit some rules are pretty cool. But the > thing I don't like about feats is having to create some for monsters while > playing because I rolled a random encounter and player gaining more and > more. Anyway, I'll think this out. If you move on to the MM, that point is taken care of for you -- all monster types have default feats, and those feats tend to be those that are most useful in combat. Thus, while you are free to customize your monsters by swapping out feats, you can stick with the defaults for your "generic" monsters and your game will not suffer. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 23:25:30 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Rodrigo" > > Hi, could anyone send me the statistic for the following attributes > I'm without my players handbook for a while :)) > > Str 14 > Dx 12 > Iq 16 > Ch 10 > Wis 9 > Cons 16 For which rules? Since somebody already sent you the adjustments for AD&D 2E, I will give you the generic adjustments for OD&D and 3E: OD&D: 3: -3 4-5: -2 6-8: -1 9-12: 0 13-15: +1 16-17: +2 18: +3 Except for the Wish spell (which requires an ability score of 18 for the ability score that controls spellcasting), all OD&D spells are available to any casters of sufficient level. 3E: 1: -5 2-3: -4 4-5: -3 6-7: -2 8-9: -1 10-11: 0 12-13: +1 14-15: +2 16-17: +3 18-19: +4 etc. To cast spells of level X, the relevant ability score must be at least 10 + X. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 23:28:12 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Mystara3E vs OD&D MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Dan Eustace" > Geoff, > I will try to write up the Weapon Mastery/spell mastery house rules that I > use sometime this week. It should prove useful (or at least interesting) to > OD&D gamers, esp. those with higher level campaigns. Gotta run. Playing my > HW campaign tonight, first game in 2 months! FYI -- Sammy Grimes uploaded a file to Eric Noah's site that includes new feats from a number of sources, including the weapon mastery rules in the D&D Rules Cyclopedia. You may want to peruse those rules and then decide which parts you can do better. Look for "Player's Option", which was his actual primary source. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 09:25:51 +0300 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Saarela Sami Subject: VS: [MYSTARA] Castle Defenses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Fight fire with fire. >:-) - Sami > ---------- > L�hett�j�: Joe Kelly[SMTP:joe_kelly@DAVIS.CA] > Vastaa: Mystara RPG Discussion > L�hetetty: 28. toukokuuta 2001 22:09 > Vastaanottaja: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Aihe: Re: [MYSTARA] Castle Defenses > > How do you handle overly aggressive parties? > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message.