========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 18:50:49 +0800 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Glenn Butcher Subject: Re: FLYING SHIPS, etc. Comments: cc: Sophie Divliaev In-Reply-To: <3B2E9763.4C23@hotkey.net.au>; from greenlantern@HOTKEY.NET.AU on Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 05:05:55PM -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 05:05:55PM -0700, The Ancient One wrote: > Has anyone run substantial adventures with flying vessels? How have DMs > stopped the presence of aircraft destabilising "pre-flight" adventuring? > Do people lose track of older style quests when they get sky ships? I started my current main DMing campaign with a flying ship. The gnome PC (hi Sophie!) had crashed in the Soderfjord Jarldoms while trying to find the rumoured auld gnomish caverns. Many adventures later the group had accumulated enough cash to repair the ship (the Falcon), and off they set. Now, they have a magical gate in the back to Serraine, as well as a extradimensional room for the two equine party members (a centaur and a pegataur). They generally travel to most places in the Falcon, with most party members pursueing their other interests (study, druid's grove, temples, lounging around, etc) while they take it in turns to fly. They think it's the best way to travel :) Porblems to be aware of include: 1) Making sure the craft is adequately taken care of while the party is adventuring. This party has some people (like the gnomes wife, an expert) fly the craft above while they go down to investigate). If there isn't a place to land (often) or the place is uncivilised (often), then either someone will need to guard it, fly it, or trap/spell it. Potential for PCs to be split up. 2) Beware the wrath of the party should the craft be destroyed. They lost the first one (captured by the Huleans) but they managed to build another one. 3) Traditional adventures and modules will completely fail to take into account the extra mobility the party has. Most assume some random encounters between locations, which simply aren't appropriate. If the party has access to fly magic, they may not even land at their destination. 5) It will suck up money from the party, or at least one party member. Repairs, enhancements, etc all cost. Playing with the party being based in a flying machine is a lot of fun, and I'd recommend it, provided you are aware it will be a dominating force in the campaign. -- knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au | "You're not our only customer you glennb@ichr.uwa.edu.au | know" "But we're one of the few http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/ | with tactical nuclear weapons" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 07:18:10 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: 3e Immortals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The first couple of lines sound like any mortal...heh. But its a pretty good one nonetheless. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Knott" To: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 11:22 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] 3e Immortals > From: "Jeff Daly" > > > > I'm not sure how I would explain that undead are evil without going into a > > long proof that I just really don't have the stamina for. > > Let's try this -- the status of being undead burdens any being with a > nasty taint as well as a temptation to totally give in to evil and thus > said status is inherently evil. Some beings with a strong connection > to their values from mortal life may hold out against that taint and/or > temptation for a long time and thus remain neutral or even good on > the Good/Evil alignment axis -- but any such being is in a constant > struggle against the forces of Entropy that have invaded his or her > very being and are always threatening total corruption. > > Thus, while it is possible for undead to be non-evil, they have an > evil aspect within themselves that is always threatening to overwhelm > them and turn them into evil monsters if they ever give up the struggle > against their inner demons. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 07:21:59 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: X1 & X2 ESD..... maybe wizards are getting on with it... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What the heck does "ESD" mean? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Furneaux" To: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 10:05 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] X1 & X2 ESD..... maybe wizards are getting on with it... > maybe wizards are getting on with it, and not just > full of hot air about our world. I found X1 & X2 in > there online store as ESD's. They however do not > appear to be mentioned anywhere else on the site > though and no other ETA's for Mystarian > products....(grumble grumble).... and that perhaps > means no free downloads for our world... > > But it's a start at least, and if they are doing the > modules first maybe I can finally get my hands on X10 > at a reasonable price. with any luck the gaz's might > be just around the corner. > > The link to X2 is: > http://store.wizards.com/product.asp?ProductID=6112 > and X1: > http://store.wizards.com/Product.asp?ProductId=6111 > > However they still have the evil no shipping to > notice: > > This product cannot be currently shipped TO the > following countries: > > Austria, Australia, Aruba > Barbados, Belgium, Bulgaria, Bahamas > Canada, Switzerland, Czech Republic, Denmark > Dominican Republic, Estonia, Finland, Gibraltar > Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy > Jamaica, Kyrgystan, Kazakhstan, Liechtenstein > Lithuania, Luxembourg, Latvia, Monaco > Malta, Netherlands, Norway, New Zealand > Poland, Portugal, Sweden, Slovenia > Slovakia, Ukraine, United Kingdom, Uzbekistan > > So let the bitching and moaning begin... > > > Chris. > (Who is glad terms over and has just managed to clear > the backlog of several hundred e-mails...) > (and also can't believe he missed a stefan thread > *grin* I might have something to say about that > later.) > > p.s. Shawn: love the new frontpage, but I'm not sure > about pure white backgrounds and maybe bering back > some kind of buttons. For me that was always the > thing that made wading through the wealth of > infomation the easyist on your site. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 14:16:48 CEST Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Demi-ogres on Skothar? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The only civilization officially described is that of the demi-ogres > who colonized the west coast of the Arm of the Immortals (see> Dragon #200 for details). Hey heyhey...does this mean there are demi/ogres somewhere on Skothar???????????????? I am particularly interested to know, since I am working on that part of Mystara!!!!! Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 09:35:02 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Stone Marshall Subject: Re: X1 & X2 ESD..... maybe wizards are getting on with it... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Five bucks!!! Thats all I could see when I went to the X2 link. 5 bucks!!! They have the 1st edition guides for the same price! I'm thinking to myself...I would pay 5 bucks for the original monster manual, but not for 1(count 'em) 1 adventure. They need to have the manuals and box sets for 5 bucks and leave adventures at 3.50! Nuff Said. Multizar the Disgruntled Mage ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 08:27:23 +1000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: X1 & X2 ESD..... maybe wizards are getting on with it... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" >This product cannot be currently shipped TO the >following countries: > >Austria, Australia, Aruba >Barbados, Belgium, Bulgaria, Bahamas >Canada, Switzerland, Czech Republic, Denmark >Dominican Republic, Estonia, Finland, Gibraltar >Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy >Jamaica, Kyrgystan, Kazakhstan, Liechtenstein >Lithuania, Luxembourg, Latvia, Monaco >Malta, Netherlands, Norway, New Zealand >Poland, Portugal, Sweden, Slovenia >Slovakia, Ukraine, United Kingdom, Uzbekistan > >So let the bitching and moaning begin... this from Wizards about the country thing: Unfortunately, the release of our ESD products Internationally has been delayed by some ongoing legal issues. We hope to make them available for purchase from any country where we regularly ship later this year. >p.s. Shawn: love the new frontpage, but I'm not sure >about pure white backgrounds and maybe bering back >some kind of buttons. most people who gave comments to me previously prefered white backgrounds. >For me that was always the >thing that made wading through the wealth of >infomation the easyist on your site. there's the main section links at the top of every page do you mean you want them to be buttons? shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 15:51:43 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: X1 & X2 ESD..... maybe wizards are getting on with it... not! On Sat, 23 Jun 2001 08:27:23 +1000, shawn stanley wrote: >>This product cannot be currently shipped TO the > >>following countries: > >> > >>Austria, Australia, Aruba > >>Barbados, Belgium, Bulgaria, Bahamas > >>Canada, Switzerland, Czech Republic, Denmark > >>Dominican Republic, Estonia, Finland, Gibraltar > >>Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy > >>Jamaica, Kyrgystan, Kazakhstan, Liechtenstein > >>Lithuania, Luxembourg, Latvia, Monaco > >>Malta, Netherlands, Norway, New Zealand > >>Poland, Portugal, Sweden, Slovenia > >>Slovakia, Ukraine, United Kingdom, Uzbekistan > >> > >>So let the bitching and moaning begin... > > >this from Wizards about the country thing: > > >Unfortunately, the release of our ESD products Internationally has been >delayed by some ongoing legal issues. We hope to make them available for >purchase from any country where we regularly ship later this year. > (snip rest) I could accept this, except that it is just the same thing WOTC said last year when they got rid of all the old stuff they had in stock and some of us couldn't buy them because we weren't from 'certain favored countries'. Back then they said "we're looking into it" too, but more than a year has now passed and... nothing! So I fear I simply cannot believe WOTC are being truthful about their 'intentions' on this matter. As a potential customer (actually, I *am* a customer, since I *did* manage to get some of those old products before WOTC torched them, but no thanks to WOTC, mind you!), I find their service for foreign customers to be below criticism! 'nuff said! - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 19:37:55 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: James Heard Subject: Re: X1 & X2 ESD..... maybe wizards are getting on with it... not! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/22/2001 5:59:58 PM Central Daylight Time, alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM writes: > So I fear I simply cannot believe WOTC are being truthful about > their 'intentions' on this matter. As a potential customer (actually, I > *am* a customer, since I *did* manage to get some of those old products > before WOTC torched them, but no thanks to WOTC, mind you!), I find their > service for foreign customers to be below criticism! > Of course, the fault could lie somewhere else but in WOTC's lap but its easy to fault the company I suppose. I think I'm going to unsubscribe from Mystara list. All I see on here is a bunch of people complaining all the time mostly. JMH ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 19:30:46 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Ricardo Matheus Subject: Re: X1 & X2 ESD..... maybe wizards are getting on with it... not! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >I could accept this, except that it is just the same thing WOTC said last >year when they got rid of all the old stuff they had in stock and some of >us couldn't buy them because we weren't from 'certain favored countries'. >Back then they said "we're looking into it" too, but more than a year has >now passed and... nothing! > >So I fear I simply cannot believe WOTC are being truthful about >their 'intentions' on this matter. As a potential customer (actually, I >*am* a customer, since I *did* manage to get some of those old products >before WOTC torched them, but no thanks to WOTC, mind you!), I find their >service for foreign customers to be below criticism! > >'nuff said! > > > - The Stalker I�m of the same opinion, but in the present case there is a simple (if not exactly legal) solution :) Darkblood _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 19:29:24 +0800 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Glenn Butcher Subject: Re: 3e Immortals In-Reply-To: <022301c0facb$81f201c0$1ca61a26@q6s7w2>; from uashell@EARTHLINK.NET on Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 11:14:48PM -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 11:14:48PM -0400, David Knott wrote: > From: "SteelAngel" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 11:21 AM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] 3e Immortals > > > > On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, David Knott wrote: > > > > > Hollow World products about Milenia, note that the Zargosians who > > > are her followers are definitely Evil. > > > > Followers do not always reflect the god they worship. > > I'll leave finding the real-world examples up to you. > > Yes, but at least some followers should reflect the power that they > serve. Now -- does Nyx have ANY non-evil followers? Interestingly enough, the party is finding this out IMC. They were fighting Vander a death knight (they think, but actually a vampire). He is LN, his "pet priest" is LE. -- knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au | "You're not our only customer you glennb@ichr.uwa.edu.au | know" "But we're one of the few http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/ | with tactical nuclear weapons" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 18:44:05 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Vaults of Pandius. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed As I can't fill the evaluation form on the site ( web-based email ) I want to say kudos for the new site Shawn. I like it a lot. Not only this, but you updated ! You also reorganized them. Everything is well done. Your site is the best ! _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 16:06:59 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Demi-ogres on Skothar? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Wizards Shopper" > > The only civilization officially described is that of the demi-ogres > > who colonized the west coast of the Arm of the Immortals (see > > Dragon #200 for details). > > Hey heyhey...does this mean there are demi/ogres somewhere > on Skothar???????????????? > I am particularly interested to know, since I am working > on that part of Mystara!!!!! Yes it does -- and they would evidently be somewhere near the southeasternmost end, since that is the part of Skothar that is closest to the Arm of the Immortals. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 15:41:08 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: X1 & X2 ESD..... maybe wizards are getting on with it... not! On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 19:37:55 EDT, James Heard wrote: >In a message dated 6/22/2001 5:59:58 PM Central Daylight Time, >alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM writes: > > >> So I fear I simply cannot believe WOTC are being truthful about >> their 'intentions' on this matter. As a potential customer (actually, I >> *am* a customer, since I *did* manage to get some of those old products >> before WOTC torched them, but no thanks to WOTC, mind you!), I find their >> service for foreign customers to be below criticism! >> > >Of course, the fault could lie somewhere else but in WOTC's lap but its easy >to fault the company I suppose. > Obviously you don't know the whole story. As I said, WOTC wouldn't let people like me buy the OOP stuff they were getting rid off because we didn't live in the 'right' countries. I contacted WOTC's customer service over the net several times without getting a reply. After a few months, I started posted messages on my progress (or rather lack thereof) to DND-L. That worked, because Keith Sthrom made sure their customer service finally responded to my mails. However, what they said was nothing more than an excuse for why dealing with me was impossible "at the moment". More than a year has since passed, but nothing has changed! You think this is good customer service? To think that an international company like WOTC cannot solve problems that small game stores like cyberdungeon, titan games, and a host of others (those are just the ones I've been dealing with, without any problems I might add) is beyond the realm of what I can believe. So I'm left with the option that WOTC is not dealing with me because it is not possible, but rather because they either don't care about some of us, or because it's just more bother than it's worth. That would be one thing, but when the claim the opposite, I don't think nice things about them. >I think I'm going to unsubscribe from Mystara list. All I see on here is a >bunch of people complaining all the time mostly. > I guess I could counter that by saying that it's easier for you to think that people like me are just complaining about nothing all the time than to consider whether I have a real complaint here. It would be rude to do so, though... Maybe we should just both refrain from speculating on the validity of the other person's comments and quit while we're ahead. That's what I'll do, at least. If you want to unsubscribe then that is your option. It doesn't change any inclination on my part as to whether I'll voice my complaints or not. After all, if I just shut up, WOTC will never change anything, or at least so they've managed to convince me by now. - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 19:11:51 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Stone Marshall Subject: Re: Vaults of Pandius. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As I can't fill the evaluation form on the site ( web-based email ) I want to say kudos for the new site Shawn. I like it a lot. Not only this, but you updated ! You also reorganized them. Everything is well done. Your site is the best ! I usually don't send "yeah me too" emails, but in this case I have to say I wholeheartedly and 100% agree! The Vaults of Pandius has gone from great to excellent in the hunt for Mystara information. I still have not had time to go through all the stuff. Superb job Shawn! :-) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 13:04:17 +1000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: Vaults of Pandius. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 18:44 23/06/01 -0000, you wrote: >As I can't fill the evaluation form on the site ( web-based email ) I want >to say kudos for the new site Shawn. I like it a lot. Not only this, but you >updated ! > >You also reorganized them. Everything is well done. Your site is the best ! Thanks Gilles, your cheque is in the post shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 03:40:00 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Vaults of Pandius. In-Reply-To: <14.1605c620.28667c37@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Unfortunately, the release of our ESD products >Internationally has been delayed by some ongoing >legal issues. We hope to make them available for >purchase from any country where we regularly ship >later this year. Heard that one, and I don't really mind, but I wish everything didn't have to be so ambiguous. "Were looking into it" is fine but what I would like to know is why? (copyrights, import rights, what?) Thats all. Then I can sit back and at least feel that something is happening. The reason I posted there list is not that I'm annoyed, but that I felt it was better to be up front and honest about the state of affairs then get someones hopes up and watch them get really annoyed and complain majorly when they find out later. Thanks though. >>p.s. Shawn: love the new frontpage, but I'm not sure >>about pure white backgrounds and maybe bring back >>some kind of buttons. >most people who gave comments to me previously >prefered white >backgrounds. don't get me wrong, I like white backgrounds. I was just suggesting that maybe some breaking up the white in some instances would help visual appeal on an already fantastic site. Or maybe varying/changing the colour of the text for headings. >there's the main section links at the top of every >page do you mean you >want them to be buttons? That or some sort of javascript w/ fancy font etc. Just something that makes it more then plain text so that it stands out and is immediately obvious as a browsing aid. I figured that constructive feedback is desirable so thats what I was aiming for, to give all the help I can to what is already the amazing site. I don't know how you keep track of it all. Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 16:51:10 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Andri Varma Plateau Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed What official information is there on the Andri-Varma plateau ? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 13:04:26 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Brad Fonseca Subject: Re: law, chaos, good, evil In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IMC, I find that alignment is pretty much irrelevant too. Obviously, a PC's actions will have consequences, for good or ill but I don't constrain characters to an alignment. "Out of Character" actions have to be backed up with a really good reason for the PC to do it. Brad:) "It is a pain in the ass waiting around for someone to try to kill you." --Merlin, son of Corwin, as quoted in 'Trumps of Doom' -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of hafnir Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 11:09 AM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: [MYSTARA] FW: [MYSTARA] law, chaos, good, evil > Would this mean that Darokin is Chaotic, "he who has the Gold, makes the Not speaking about this particular comment, but in general about the arguments that say "Country X is lawful/chaotic", I think some of the confusion comes from the fact that, as others have indicated, there are numerous troubles with assigning an alignment to a country, above and beyond the troubles of assigning alignment to individuals. I realize there is a tendency to try to personify things, especially things like national character, but I think this really is a case where personification breaks down. I believe alignment is a characteristic of individuals, not groups. I don't even think it's really proper to assign an alignment for two individuals - it's much better to say Rob is Chaotic and Bill is Chaotic, than to say Rob and Bill are Chaotic. Because Rob may be Chaotic in ways X, and Bill is Chaotic in ways Y. You can say the alignment of each goblin is Chaotic, but I don't think it's proper to say all the goblins have exactly the same alignment, unless perhaps if they are clones. I know this may seem incredibly subtle, but if it's sticky for even small groups I think it's impossible to do for a nation. It's about as meaningful as asking "Does the nation have over 7 hit points?" - I mean, you can imagine some kind of average or even just sum over the set of hit points, but clearly more than anything the question's just improperly posed, and only at best vaguely meaningful. Since we're on the topic of alignment, in my campaign we use the standard "Lawful", "Neutral", "Chaotic", but they are fairly meaningless. It's yet another reason I like OD&D over AD&D, since we don't make things even worse by using "Lawful Good", "Lawful Neutral", "Lawful Evil", etc. More than anything else, I simply use alignment to keep "Lawful" people in check - so they don't go around cutting all the prisoners' heads off - and I use it as an argument to anything that specifically affects alignment (helm of alignment changing, truesight, etc). In general, I think it's so poorly defined that we generally avoid it as much as possible, though. It's far, far, far better to have a paragraph or even just a sentence stating what the PC/NPC/monster's motivations are. But sorry, you can't really abbreviate that to one letter (L, N, or C) or two letters (LG, LN, LC, etc), and I guess the original creators of D&D thought it'd be cute to be able to, to our overall detriment. hafnir. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 20:26:56 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gilles Leblanc wrote: > > What official information is there on the Andri-Varma plateau ? Other than what given in the orange cover Silver Princess, I don't know of any other canon info. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 06:22:20 +1000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: Vaults of Pandius. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>p.s. Shawn: love the new frontpage, but I'm not sure >>>about pure white backgrounds and maybe bring back >>>some kind of buttons. > >>most people who gave comments to me previously >>prefered white >>backgrounds. > >don't get me wrong, I like white backgrounds. I was >just suggesting that maybe some breaking up the white >in some instances would help visual appeal on an >already fantastic site. Or maybe varying/changing the >colour of the text for headings. fair enough >>there's the main section links at the top of every >>page do you mean you >>want them to be buttons? > >That or some sort of javascript w/ fancy font etc. >Just something that makes it more then plain text so >that it stands out and is immediately obvious as a >browsing aid. > >I figured that constructive feedback is desirable so >thats what I was aiming for, cool, and it is appreciated >to give all the help I >can to what is already the amazing site. I don't know >how you keep track of it all. I do? thanks :-o shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 20:42:50 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Night of Hell: Fall of the Five Shires MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the Nightmare Dimension, the diaboli are the mostly chaotic good counterparts of the mostly lawful good humans of Mystara. However, not all inhabitants of that Dimension are so benign. In particular, the Dark Urdlings who serve Lawful Evil devils (who show the same degree of interest in the Nightmare Dimension that the Chaotic Evil demons do in the Normal Dimension) concoct a plan to invade the Normal Dimension after many plots to take over their own Dimension fail. They construct gates from their world to the Normal Dimension by focusing on areas where negative energy is concentrated -- namely, in the halfling clan artifacts known as "Crucibles of Blackflame". The Dark Urdlings can best be described by taking the Urd race from 2E sources, converting them to 3E, and then applying the "fiendish" template. The result is powerfully nasty Lawful Evil beings of a sort never previously seen in either the Normal Dimension or their own Nightmare Dimension. Anyway, once their gates are in place, they launch their invasion. One night, each of the hundred clanholds of the Five Shires becomes a literal "Hell on Earth" as Dark Urdlings pour through gates located very near to the most precious relics of each clans. Within minutes after the beginning of this invasion, the very land of the Five Shires is corrupted, as those few heroes who attempt to Deny the invaders burst into flame and are utterly consumed in the attempt. By dawn, most inhabitants of the Five Shires are dead or missing, and a small few manage to flee to neighboring nations with incoherent tales of the horrors they faced that night. The Five Shires are now dominated by horrifying monsters from the Nightmare Dimension. Of the hundred Crucibles of Blackflame held by the hundred clans of the Five Shires, 95 are seized by the invaders, while heroic adventurers manage to salavage the other five and take them to far distant locales where they can (it is hoped) be hidden from the invaders. Halfling recovery becomes a major project in Glantri, Karameikos, NACE, and other magically inclined nations as (at the request and bribes of the refugees) they research spells to rescue halflings from the Nightmare Dimension. The rescued halflings vary as to the degree to which the Dark Urdlings managed to assimilate them into the Nightmare Dimension: Degree 0: These halflings suffered minimal exposure to the horrors of their new dimension. As their willpower made up for the traumas that their bodies endured, they gained +2 to Wis at the expense of +2 to Con. Degree 1: These halflings became moderately adapted to the Nightmare Dimension. In addition to the effects of Degree 0, these halflings gained the ability to detect evil, magic, or undead at will. In return, they became an "ECL + 1" race in 3E terms. Degree 2: These halflings can all but call the Nightmare Dimension home. In addition to the effects of degree 1, these halflings gained the ability to dimension door or shadow walk three times per week. In return, they became an "ECL + 2" race in 3E terms. Degree 3: These halflings actually can call the Nightmare Dimension home, even if they don't want to do so. In addition to the effects of degree 2, they are now classified as Outsiders native to the Nightmare Dimension and as a result gain the same immunity to magic possessed by the diaboli. In return, they become an "ECL + 3" race in 3E terms. Note: Anyone familiar with the Birthright/Cerilia setting should recognize it as the source of the abilities gained at degrees 0-2. Anyway, the "Night of Hell" would introduce some major changes to Mystara, especially in regard to the treatment of halflings. First off, halflings would lose their major homeland and become rarer than gnomes. Initially, player characters would be limited to refugees and expatriates who either escaped from the "Night of Hell" or were already outside the Five Shires when it occurred. In the following years, "recovered" halflings would become possible player characters, with maximum possible degree of assimilation increasing as the years pass. All "recovered" halflings would incur a debt to the wizards of whichever nation recovered them and thus automatically have the social status of indentured servants. No halfling would be able to acquire the Denial ability or become a Master after the "Night of Hell", and any Master who managed to escape from that disaster would be unable to advance further in that class (though he would be able to gain levels in prior classes in 3E terms). As for the Dark Urdlings: After the Five Shires, their next logical target would be the Atruaghin Plateau by way of the Malpheggi Swamp, thereby stirring up another Known World nation that is a bit too peaceful at present. The Atruaghin natives would view these new intruders as evil spirits and probably find that their patron Immortals are quite willing and able to help them fight off these half-fiends. However, this would be a good time for these half-fiends to be contacted by disgruntled NACE aristocrats who do not much care for the recent changes in what remains of Alphatian society. The alliance of the Dark Urdlings with the disgruntled Alphatian wizards results in another conquest like the one described in the PWAs -- but this time the invaders are not so easily dislodged, and the best efforts of the Atruaghin natives to rebel fail to free their homeland but serve only to block the plans of the evil alliance to expand further. Question for the Mystaran Almanac team: Are there enough haters of Ed Greenwood among you to consider this storyline? More to the point -- would there be enough of you to do it if you combine your numbers with those like me who could not care less one way or the other about Ed Greenwood but would still like to shake up the undeservedly most tranquil nations in the Known World? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 22:00:11 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: 3e Immortals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't care how Thar's people see him...he is evil. If you're looking for an example of a good undead who is not ridiculous (tank or not), then I don't think I would look in PC3. I'm not saying I didn't like that supplement...but really. Nope, sorry. Undead are evil. Eeeeeeeeevil! Now, if you were to argue that vampirism is a disease, and not undeath at all, then I could go along with it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "SteelAngel" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 8:01 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] 3e Immortals > On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Jeff Daly wrote: > > > Yeah well, I suppose if you really wanted to, you could write a whole > > romantic story of the littlest demon...one who was dashing and gentled and > > just wanted to be loved... > > > > But it would still be ridiculous...tank or not. > > It's not true and you know it. I'm not talking about "The Little Vampire" > or even Buffy's Spike (though that would be a good example of a Vampire > undergoing an alignment change). > > There are examples in Mystaran material in which the undead are not evil. > What about the undead in charge of the Serrainian Library? Thar is a > nosferatu, and his people do not see him as evil. > > > Ethan > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 22:42:25 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: Night of Hell: Fall of the Five Shires MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Question for the Mystaran Almanac team: Are there enough haters of > Ed Greenwood among you to consider this storyline? More to the point > -- would there be enough of you to do it if you combine your numbers > with those like me who could not care less one way or the other about > Ed Greenwood but would still like to shake up the undeservedly most > tranquil nations in the Known World? I can't speak for the entire almanac team, but as a member, I can't say that I "hate" Ed Greenwood, or even hate what he produced for Mystara. Really, I don't pay attention to who wrote what, and what other competing products they may have produced, I just use what I like, chuck what I don't, and make up alot of my own material. This is true for both TSR and fan produced net stuff. Even stuff I don't really have an interest in can spark a few good ideas, usually. I do know that we have people working on fleshing out the Five Shires and scripting events for them. Your plot is interesting and would certainly fit in some campaigns, but to get anything in the M-Almanac requires a pretty broad consensus, so I think it would be an uphill battle. Personally, I like the hin and the shires, and would not want to see them overthrown to this degree. I'm sure there will be some interesting stuff for that region this year. On the other hand, a toned down version of your plot could certainly be possible, but it would not be for this year. Good work, though! You came up with a pretty major storyline for an admittedly neglected region and worked in some cool dimensional stuff, plus some new and powerful adversaries. But with regards to the MA specifically, I don't know if it would fit as it stands now. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 22:56:56 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Laterre: New Yahoogroup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have just set up a new group on Yahoogroups for anyone interested in discussing the Dimension of Myth/World of Laterre. According to the "Wrath of the Immortal" boxed set, this world/dimension is based on real world mythology and assumes that all regional myths and legends are absolutely true in that setting. For immediate Mystaran interest -- Glantrians from New Averoigne and Klantyre owe their immediate origin to Myth/Laterrre. More removed from immediate consideration: My legend of the origin of the Immortal Nyx is deeply buried in Laterran prehistory, and that legend will beg further development along lines that connect the legend of Atlantis with anything but Alphatia. In any case -- if you are interested in developing Myth/Laterre, join this group by sending an e-mail to the address: laterre-subscribe@yahooroups.com and then reveal your vision of Myth/Laterre. I will not ban you from this list unless you post obviously off-topic spam. Once this group produces material of adequate quality/quantity, I will be sure to alert Shawn and ensure that he has access to it. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 00:26:57 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: 3e Immortals In-Reply-To: <003001c0fd1a$929ccae0$6232140a@jdaly> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Jeff Daly wrote: > Nope, sorry. Undead are evil. Eeeeeeeeevil! Look into my eyes.... Chant with me... ooooooooOOOOOOooooooooooo Repeat this mantra.. Nyx is good Nyx is your friend You want to become her servant You desire to become her servant You will become her.. *snap* Noo!! wait!! They already have me!! Run for your liiife before they get you tooo!!!! *snap* ....................servant Hall hail Nyx and the great undeath! Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 00:13:22 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: 3e Immortals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You are making specific statements about the alignment of a population without justifying that statement. Why must undead be evil? Who says that undead must be evil? Why are the NO exceptions? There is no evil alignment in the Rules Cyclopedia, rightly too in my opinion, since good and evil is a moral judgement and not an absolute (it largely depends upon which side you are on). Rather than determining your behavior, the concepts of good and evil strike more to motive. A good person (if we want to attempt to make a sweeping generalization, something that I would rather nt do) is basically concerned more with others than themselves; they are giving. An evil person is basically selfish. Beyond that behavior is a matter of what is socially acceptable. We are repelled by cannibalism in our society, yet some Polynesian tribes consider it a great honor and an invitation to go and live with their gods. For us this is evil, for them it is good. Who is right from an objective point of view? You are proceeding from a logical fallacy, just because you do not like a source of information does not invalidate the argument that it provides a precedent. If you do not like the example from PC-3, what about GAZ 1 or KKoA: Anton Sulescu. In KKoA it specifically states that his alignment is neutral. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Daly" To: Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] 3e Immortals > I don't care how Thar's people see him...he is evil. > > If you're looking for an example of a good undead who is not ridiculous > (tank or not), then I don't think I would look in PC3. I'm not saying I > didn't like that supplement...but really. > > Nope, sorry. Undead are evil. Eeeeeeeeevil! > > Now, if you were to argue that vampirism is a disease, and not undeath at > all, then I could go along with it. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "SteelAngel" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 8:01 PM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] 3e Immortals > > > > On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, Jeff Daly wrote: > > > > > Yeah well, I suppose if you really wanted to, you could write a whole > > > romantic story of the littlest demon...one who was dashing and gentled > and > > > just wanted to be loved... > > > > > > But it would still be ridiculous...tank or not. > > > > It's not true and you know it. I'm not talking about "The Little Vampire" > > or even Buffy's Spike (though that would be a good example of a Vampire > > undergoing an alignment change). > > > > There are examples in Mystaran material in which the undead are not evil. > > What about the undead in charge of the Serrainian Library? Thar is a > > nosferatu, and his people do not see him as evil. > > > > > > Ethan > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 00:52:09 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Herve Musseau Subject: Re: Night of Hell: Fall of the Five Shires MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Question for the Mystaran Almanac team: Are there enough haters of > Ed Greenwood among you to consider this storyline? More to the point > -- would there be enough of you to do it if you combine your numbers > with those like me who could not care less one way or the other about > Ed Greenwood but would still like to shake up the undeservedly most > tranquil nations in the Known World? It is tranquil because we let it be. This year, though, with Beau in the almanac team, I think we should a few more events and plot lines that should bring the Five Shires to life. Besides, if we want evil plots in the Shires, I think we can do it without resorting to altering it that much - there are, for instance, the Dark Shire we could use, or the Deep Glaurant / Blackflame / Nightmare Dimension idea that we could use less disruptively than you do in your scenario. I advise we wait to see how it's shaping into the next almanac (1018) before we put into motion events of the scale you're proposing (especially for a core canon region of the Known World). PS: If you're interested in shaking up the Shires a bit, and possibly implementing some version of your scenario, don't hesitate to join the MA. ===== ___________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau http://www.geocities.com/hmusseau/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 11:25:35 +0300 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Ville V Lahde Subject: Re: Night of Hell In-Reply-To: <200106250700.f5P70tB28469@uta.fi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Splendid work. I quite like this idea of wiping out the Shires. One comment though: Glantri would certainly intervene, but possibly not in such a benign way as you described. Yes, they would battle the dark minions of Nightmare, but I think they would also try to grasp as many hin to they labs as they could... also getting their hands on Blackflame might be easier now. Ville L�hde ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 11:22:51 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Martin Mathes Subject: Does anyone know? some cool stuff, just try to get your hands on the CoM boxed set. there are some information on the region. i tried to flesh out the western thanegioth archipelago myself, but got stuck . . . ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 11:07:58 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Roger WINTER Subject: Re: 3e Immortals - lets make it easy for ourselves. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 22:50:59 -0400 From: David Knott Subject: Re: 3e Immortals - lets make it easy for ourselves. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From: "Roger WINTER" >> Should all Energy clerics have the same choice of domains? >Definitely not! In 3E, the choice of domains is the main factor that >distinguishes different deities (or Immortals for a Mystara campaign). >In addition, some Immortals (such as Loki and Rafiel) deliberately >obscure their Sphere associations. Immortals openly associated >with the Sphere of Energy should probably share one or two domains >but not be completely identical in that regard. This isn't quite what I meant. What I was trying to say, badly, was that = rather than giving priests of a certain Immortal access to a number of = domains, restrict the choices by the Immortal's sphere, not to be confused = with 2e spheres. >> This comes from analyzing the Savge Coast Campaign Book Part 3 >> (electronic version), which suggested 2e priest spheres for each 0e = sphere >> Energy =3D Fire Chaos Magic Sun (War Protection Healing) >> Matter =3D Animal Earth Law Plant (War Knowledge Healing) >> Thought =3D Air Good Knowledge (Protection Healing) >> Time =3D Healing Knowledge Water (Animal Death Plant Sun) >> Entropy =3D Death Destruction Evil War Strength I have been thinking some more about these, over the weekend. >The main problem with this approach is that spheres have to cover a >lot more ground than domains do. The core list of basic 3E cleric >spells covers a lot more than the 2E sphere of "All" does. To trim >down that list, I would take the following steps: >1) Remove all alignment based domains (as they are highly inappropriate >for Lawful Immortals of Energy or Chaotic Immortals of Matter, to cite >two obvious examples). These domains should be available to all >Immortals of the appropriate alignments regardless of Sphere. I disagree. Matter leans towards law, so it should be part of Matter's = portfolio. Applying the PHB rules, a priest of a Chaotic Immortal of = Matter would be Neutral at best, so wouldn't be able to take Law anyway. >2) Remove all "minor" domains, as you hinted. >3) Remove Knowledge from Time list -- that domain is much more >obviously associated with Thought. Knowledge seems pretty close to the old divination sphere, hence it's = inclusion. >4) Remove War from Entropy list, as it is shared by two other >non-Entropic Spheres as a minor domain. No I think this one is where it should be. Most of the KW wars have been = inspired by Entropic Immortals. >5) Remove Strength from Entropy list, as it is too positive in nature -- >all of the other domains associated with Entropy involve something >inherently negative and/or destructive. Agreed. >6) Thought is now down to only two domains. Add prestige domain >Mind from Defenders of the Faith to its list as a third option. >7) Time is also down to only two domains. Add prestige domain >Celerity from Defenders of the Faith as its third option. >That leaves us with the following lists for the five Spheres: >Energy =3D Fire Magic Sun >Matter =3D Earth Animal Plant >Thought =3D Air Knowledge Mind >Time =3D Water Healing Celerity >Entropy =3D Death Destruction Evil This is where I am now. I have now had a look at the FR domains as from = the rpga website. (I assume it was a typo that Evil didn't make it to this = list!) Its free, and it is next to impossible to get any WotC stuff in my = area unless I mail order it. I want to be able to have a look at a product = before I buy, especially at WotC prices! Enough ranting for today. Energy =3D Fire Craft Magic Spell Chaos Sun Storms Matter =3D Earth Law Animal Plant Portal Strength Thought =3D Air Good Knowledge Portal Time =3D Time Ocean Water Craft Knowledge Healing Entropy =3D Darkness Destruction Death Evil War Knowledge Suffering >Immortals who are openly associated with a Sphere should select 1-2 >domains from the appropriate list, as most probably have good reason >to reject at least one of the available options. To cite some obvious >examples, Ixion would definitely select both Fire and Sun, while >Ilsundal would reject both in favor of Magic. Priests should get access to two domains as per PHB. They should only = select an alignment domain if their patron Immortal is of that alignment = and it is within their sphere ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 10:12:29 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: 3e Immortals In-Reply-To: <01b301c0fd35$8e028e00$8b39abd0@tds.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, George Hrabovsky wrote: > without justifying that statement. Why must undead be evil? Who says that > undead must be evil? Why are the NO exceptions? This is EXACTLY my problem with the "static" alignments in the 3e MM. Dragons are amazingly intelligent creatures. Why lump all of one breed into "ALWAYS Chaotic Evil"? I can see static alignments for other creatures, such as demons or devils, which are suposed to embody concepts and ideal alignments, but dragons should have some freedom in their belief systems. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 12:36:07 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Roger WINTER Subject: Re: 3e Immortals - lets make it easy for ourselves. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: David Knott >From: "Roger WINTER" >> Should all Energy clerics have the same choice of domains? >Definitely not! In 3E, the choice of domains is the main factor that >distinguishes different deities (or Immortals for a Mystara campaign). >In addition, some Immortals (such as Loki and Rafiel) deliberately >obscure their Sphere associations. Immortals openly associated >with the Sphere of Energy should probably share one or two domains >but not be completely identical in that regard. This isn't quite what I meant. What I was trying to say, badly, was that = rather than giving priests of a certain Immortal access to a number of = domains, restrict the choices by the Immortal's sphere, not to be confused = with 2e spheres. >> This comes from analyzing the Savge Coast Campaign Book Part 3 >> (electronic version), which suggested 2e priest spheres for each 0e = sphere >> Energy =3D Fire Chaos Magic Sun (War Protection Healing) >> Matter =3D Animal Earth Law Plant (War Knowledge Healing) >> Thought =3D Air Good Knowledge (Protection Healing) >> Time =3D Healing Knowledge Water (Animal Death Plant Sun) >> Entropy =3D Death Destruction Evil War Strength I have been thinking some more about these, over the weekend. >The main problem with this approach is that spheres have to cover a >lot more ground than domains do. The core list of basic 3E cleric >spells covers a lot more than the 2E sphere of "All" does. To trim >down that list, I would take the following steps: >1) Remove all alignment based domains (as they are highly inappropriate >for Lawful Immortals of Energy or Chaotic Immortals of Matter, to cite >two obvious examples). These domains should be available to all >Immortals of the appropriate alignments regardless of Sphere. I disagree. Matter leans towards law, so it should be part of Matter's = portfolio. Applying the PHB rules, a priest of a Chaotic Immortal of = Matter would be Neutral at best, so wouldn't be able to take Law anyway. >2) Remove all "minor" domains, as you hinted. >3) Remove Knowledge from Time list -- that domain is much more >obviously associated with Thought. Knowledge seems pretty close to the old divination sphere, hence it's = inclusion. >4) Remove War from Entropy list, as it is shared by two other >non-Entropic Spheres as a minor domain. No I think this one is where it should be. Most of the KW wars have been = inspired by Entropic Immortals. >5) Remove Strength from Entropy list, as it is too positive in nature -- >all of the other domains associated with Entropy involve something >inherently negative and/or destructive. Agreed. >6) Thought is now down to only two domains. Add prestige domain >Mind from Defenders of the Faith to its list as a third option. >7) Time is also down to only two domains. Add prestige domain >Celerity from Defenders of the Faith as its third option. >That leaves us with the following lists for the five Spheres: >Energy =3D Fire Magic Sun >Matter =3D Earth Animal Plant >Thought =3D Air Knowledge Mind >Time =3D Water Healing Celerity >Entropy =3D Death Destruction Evil Three just doesn't feel like enough. This is where I am now. I have now had a look at the FR domains (in = brackets below) from the rpga website. (I assume it was a typo that Evil = didn't make it to this list!) Its free, and it is next to impossible to = buy any WotC stuff in my area unless I mail order it. I want to be able to = have a look at a product before I buy, especially at WotC prices! So I = doubt I'll be getting Defenders of the Faith. Enough ranting for today. Energy =3D Chaos Fire Magic Sun (Craft Spell Storms) Matter =3D Animal Earth Law Plant Strength (Portal) Thought =3D Air Good Knowledge (Portal) Time =3D Healing Knowledge Time Water (Craft Ocean)=20 Entropy =3D Death Destruction Evil Knowledge War (Darkness Suffering) >Immortals who are openly associated with a Sphere should select 1-2 >domains from the appropriate list, as most probably have good reason >to reject at least one of the available options. To cite some obvious >examples, Ixion would definitely select both Fire and Sun, while >Ilsundal would reject both in favor of Magic. Priests should get access to two domains as per PHB. (I don't want to = start messing around with the finely-tuned balance of 3e) They should only = select an alignment domain if their patron Immortal is of that alignment = and it is within the sphere. I don't propose to break this down further for individual Immortals, as = this gives me enough detail to work with, and I am a notoriously lazy = b*****d. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 13:46:27 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau > >Gilles Leblanc wrote: >> >> What official information is there on the Andri-Varma plateau ? > >Other than what given in the orange cover Silver Princess, I don't know >of any other canon info. > > Giampaolo Agosta > In one of the old Dragon magazines Bruce Heard speculated as to what might exist on the Plateau. He mentioned something about mutant saguaro cacti (as a result of Glantrian experiments). Though this was more than likely tongue-in-cheek, the idea of roving cactus-men, or something similar, has a certain appeal to it. :-) Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 14:27:33 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: pds3 Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT >>> What official information is there on the Andri-Varma plateau ? >> >>Other than what given in the orange cover Silver Princess, I don't know >>of any other canon info. >In one of the old Dragon magazines Bruce Heard speculated as to what might >exist on the Plateau. He mentioned something about mutant saguaro cacti >(as a result of Glantrian experiments). Though this was more than likely >tongue-in-cheek, the idea of roving cactus-men, or something similar, has >a certain appeal to it. :-) Was that in a Dragon article? I know he posted the idea of heat-sapping mutant saguaros to this list years ago. Anyway, CoM refers the the rivers coming off of Adri Varma as being very polluted and i believe that it's mentioned in PC4 (or maybe it was in GAZ3) that the cliffs are crumbling in many places and it is therefore fairly easy to climb up and down the plateau. i think these, along with the previously mentioned sources, have the only mentions of the plateau. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:02:13 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Freeport Comments: To: MYSTARA-L@.WIZARDS.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hey all, I just got the Rock Of Bral (Spelljammer) and I must say, crossing it with = the Freeport adventure works out quite well. I combined the history of = Prince Andru (Spelljammer) with Sea Lord Anton Drac and changed the = Stadium in Bral to where the light tower is, (Milton's Folly) and it works = out quite well. If you can find a copy of it, the Rock of Bral is even = more extensive than the Freeport map and has tons of sites for the PCs to = explore. Combining it with Freeport creates even more possibilities. JK Wolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 10:04:16 +0800 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Glenn Butcher Subject: Re: 3e Immortals In-Reply-To: ; from edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU on Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 10:12:29AM -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 10:12:29AM -0400, SteelAngel wrote: > On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, George Hrabovsky wrote: > > > without justifying that statement. Why must undead be evil? Who says that > > undead must be evil? Why are the NO exceptions? > > This is EXACTLY my problem with the "static" alignments in the 3e MM. > Dragons are amazingly intelligent creatures. Why lump all of one breed > into "ALWAYS Chaotic Evil"? > > I can see static alignments for other creatures, such as demons or devils, > which are suposed to embody concepts and ideal alignments, but dragons > should have some freedom in their belief systems. It mentions in the 3e MM that there are (very rare) exceptions. Always is only used for creatures which do embody an alignment. -- knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au | "You're not our only customer you glennb@ichr.uwa.edu.au | know" "But we're one of the few http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/ | with tactical nuclear weapons" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 01:27:03 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: 3e Immortals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yeah, I agree. But as a DM you can always change that. I think a very good reason for making wider alignment variations for dragons would be so that the players don't automatically know the way a dragon will react. They MIGHT have talked to the dragon, but it's a green dragon, and we all know green dragons won't talk... > This is EXACTLY my problem with the "static" alignments in the 3e MM. > Dragons are amazingly intelligent creatures. Why lump all of one breed > into "ALWAYS Chaotic Evil"? > > I can see static alignments for other creatures, such as demons or devils, > which are suposed to embody concepts and ideal alignments, but dragons > should have some freedom in their belief systems. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:07:08 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau >Was that in a Dragon article? I know he posted the idea of heat-sapping >mutant saguaros to this list years ago. Yeah, it was initially in Dragon, and he expanded on it for the List. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:36:51 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Agathokles [mailto:agathokles@LIBERO.IT] > Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 2:27 PM > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Andri Varma Plateau > > > Gilles Leblanc wrote: > > > > What official information is there on the Andri-Varma plateau ? > > Other than what given in the orange cover Silver Princess, I > don't know > of any other canon info. > -- IMC I have always used the Plateau as an area infested with magic that has gone bad. At least that is the impression I got from what limited descriptions there are on the plateau. I also placed an Ancient Nithian Obelisk that radiates necromantic magic (turns everything into intelligent undead, over a slow period of time) The obelisk is guarded by an ancient mummified lich from Nithia. Other mages that want to be left alone that could not make it in Glantri (exiled for bad magic, heresy, et.) have also been placed there. If any of these mages ever fall victim to the lich, and keep their hatred of Glantri, Glantri will have some very powerful enemies from the plateau. Other resources have mentioned ancient Blackmoor artifacts might exist deep under the plateau (causing corruption, pollution, radiation sickness, plague, madness et.) The plateau is an extremely hostile place, full of mutant monsters, undead, scavengers of enormous size (think gargantuan trolls, carrion crawlers, et.) deadly diseases, mad (lunatic) mages, blazing hot sun at day, freezing cold winds at night. An ecosystem as bad as this would not support much life on the surface. So you would end up with allot of purple worms, fyrsnaca, red worms, earthquake beetles, et. You would also have allot of predators that roam around at night (so forget about getting any restful sleep to memorize your spells or get adequate healing, plus the corrupting effect of the obelisk would negate any natural healing for miles). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 08:12:02 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Roger Winter Subject: Re: X1 & X2 ESD..... maybe wizards are getting on with it... >Unfortunately, the release of our ESD products Internationally has been >delayed by some ongoing legal issues. We hope to make them available for >purchase from any country where we regularly ship later this year. WotC ship to the UK, but only via distributors, so does this mean we in the UK will NEVER get ESDs? It is hard enough to get hard copy of current products over a retail counter (I do like to have a look at a product before I lay out my hard earned cash, so even if WotC do get off their corporate behinds and set up an international online store I won't be using it) so if this situation continues I am likely to only buy a select few items from the 3e range, ie PHB, DMG and MM plus very few others. Hammer of Ulric ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:02:05 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >Was that in a Dragon article? I know he posted the idea of heat-sapping >mutant saguaros to this list years ago. Anyway, CoM refers the the rivers >coming off of Adri Varma as being very polluted and i believe that it's >mentioned in PC4 (or maybe it was in GAZ3) that the cliffs are crumbling in >many places and it is therefore fairly easy to climb up and down the >plateau. >i think these, along with the previously mentioned sources, have the only >mentions of the plateau. > CoM mentions that part of the inondations of Graakhalia and Sind come from Snow melting on the black mountains and from rivers from the Adri Varma plateau. I think the fact they are polluted is because they carry lots of small dirt and debris with them. Altough this could be used to create a polluting civilization on the plateau. Altough why no one has heard of them if they are so close to Glantri and Sind is a mystery I plan on writing something on the plateau. BTW excuse my poor english skills but what is a saguaros anyway ? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 18:21:11 CEST Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Giulio Caroletti Subject: Adri Varhma Plateau Ideas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Uhm...I think that the Plateau is big enough to put in it all of these ideas. Personally I would suggest to have a look at its size and then split it in smaller countries, in order to allow the presence of: 1) Cacti-men (Bruce Heard idea) 2) Polluting civilization 3) Nithian lich 4) Sand folk (Steven B. Wilson idea, if I recall correctly he put it here) 5) Palace of the Silver Princess (version B3/1.0) 6) Anything else that can make it Moreover, nothing prevents Wendar or Glantri to have connections with people there. Considering that probably the regions nearer to Glantri are settled by cacti-men, sand folk or undead, Glantrians and Wendarians may have little interest (or, if anyone has, it's adventurers and wizards, so it is quite reasonable that news don't come through to the core of the Known World). A lot of work may be done there! Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:48:50 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Gilles Leblanc wrote: > > > > What official information is there on the Andri-Varma plateau ? > >Other than what given in the orange cover Silver Princess, I don't know >of any other canon info. >-- > Im not a big fan of the Silver Princess. I don't know how canon it is to Mystara, it wasn't even released and doesn't seem to fit in very well... At first I didnt understand when poeple talked about the orange cover had stuff on the plateau until I saw a few minutes ago that the map has Princes of Glantri written on it. The plateau seems awfully small on that map. I think the adventure wasn't designed to fit in with Mystara and if I have to take a guess I would say that the plateau was put as a quick mean to say : "We don't want expend the known world in that direction" and "We don't want to give glantri another neigbhor as it doesn't need one", which is perfectly fine. After all Glantri as already an enemy neighbor ( Ethangar ), humanoid neighbor ( Broken Lands ) and Commerce partner ( Darokin ). Putting another hostile nation later on would have made all wonder why they had not been talked about in the history of Glantri, ect. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 13:36:44 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > After all Glantri as already an enemy neighbor ( Ethangar ), humanoid > neighbor ( Broken Lands ) and Commerce partner ( Darokin ). > Putting another > hostile nation later on would have made all wonder why they > had not been > talked about in the history of Glantri, ect. > That is why I like the idea of the Nithian Lich, recruiting insane exiled wizards and turning them into intelligent spellcasting undead. He is just waiting for the perfect time to raise all the other buried Nithian Mummified Liches (like the one in Alfheim). He would not have been noted in the historical timeline for several reasons... 1. He's Nithian, any record of his previous existence on the Plateau would have been erased. 2. He's undead, he has all the time in the world to gain followers, make contacts with other powerful undead, create powerful magical items to help him, and be patient. 3. He's a spellcasting lich, possibly a cleric of Thanatos or Ranivorous. He is an agent of evil with an extremely high INT and/or WIS. Possibly working a plan to resurrect a cult to his Immortal patron(s). Seeing his biggest obstacle for world domination as Glantri, he probably already had influence there to keep clerics out, feeding little tidbits of Necromancy, and sending agents into Hule to keep the other nations looking west, not north. He may have even influenced Denagoth to keep Wendar occupied in the east. 4. With his influence in belligerent nations like Hule and Denagoth, without the rest of the Known World knowing, he can stay safe in the plateau, free to do his masters long term plans. But with his secrecy, he occasionally gets set back with other followers agendas. (Synn getting clerics into Glantri, Hule attacking too early, Baron of Igrov not being prolific enough) All of this makes for a long term campaign to find out the true evil leading other nations in their never ending quest to raise havoc in Mystara. Also if Hosadus keeps acting up and not making intelligent enough decisions, Varga the Lich may have to intercede and re-create him into a more obedient and more powerful form of undead. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 18:17:14 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed As I want to do something on this I looked on some maps before I create one. Like J.R.R. Tolkien said to create a great story you must first create a map and stick with it ( altough in different words ). I just noticed that on the Map that comes with the Second Edition Glantri boxed set it calls the plateau the Northern Wastelands with the mention ( Claimed by Hule ) underneath. I haven't heard anything more of this claim in the text and know that sometimes map aren't 100 % accurate. But this could be more like Hule claiming the plateau thinking there isn't much there and that because comes forth to dispute or challenge their claim it's stand. Hule might also have sent some minor scouting expeditions that missed most of the things or thought them to be monsters ( cacti-men for exemple ). _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 18:22:09 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Also noticed another map which calls it the Great Northern Wildlands. the one that comes with WoTI. Interestingly there are roads/trails leading from Glantri into/past the plateau on it. This map also appears to be the most detailed and the one covering the most terrain that I possess altough the scale is quite large. The maps points to cactus but shouldn't this area being north of Glantri cold ? It is a plateau also tough I don't know how high to make it. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 14:53:59 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > The maps points to cactus but shouldn't this area being north > of Glantri > cold ? It is a plateau also tough I don't know how high to make it. Here is a description for the Gobi Desert... The height of the plateau ranges from 900 m (3,000 ft) above sea level in the east to 1500 m (5,000 ft) in the west. The surface of the Gobi plateau consists in the main of rolling gravel plains, interspersed occasionally with low, flat-topped ranges and isolated hills that are the result of faulting action. Only the southeastern portion of the Gobi is completely waterless. The remainder of the region, approximately three-quarters of the area, has a thin growth of grass, scrub, and thorn sufficient to feed the flocks of the nomadic herders who live there; water is available in wells and occasional shallow lakes. The borders of the Gobi to the north and northwest are fertile, and grassy steppes or prairies lie at the southeastern edge of the desert area. You could also say this was the original homelands of Antalians, originally from the coastal areas of Norwold, Heldann and Northern Reaches; that were forced south by Hule, to latter on be Eusdria and Robrenn. You could possibly put another module here, another one that does not fit any where else, Journey to the Rock. Also since this plateau is crumbling, possibly from faults, it could be the original Oltec and Azcan territories (the Great Plateau). So there could be ancient and forgotten Oltec/Azcan artifacts and ruins. This idea would also account for the Broken Lands Aengmor or Oencmar, being the closest to Glantri via a valley, and no other Oltec ruins anywhere in the Known World. The proximity to Ethengar, Sind and Urduk peoples would also account for their copper skin complexions as being remnants from this Great Plateau of Andri Varma. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 14:56:51 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > That is why I like the idea of the Nithian Lich, recruiting > insane exiled > wizards and turning them into intelligent spellcasting > undead. Change that idea to Ancient Azcan Lich with an Ancient Azcan Pyramid, to better fit my last post. ;) Love work in progress! :) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 12:14:54 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Michael Harvey Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I used to live in north-central Washington State, a few miles south of the Canadian border.. I think that's around 50 degrees north lattitude. The climate is semi-arid, pines in the mountains and sagebrush in the glacier-carved valleys; cold snowy winters and warm (but not hot) summers. Patches of wild cactus grew everywhere in the valleys and hills, mixed with the sagebrush. The cacti were small, only 1-3 inches tall, but grew in large patches 2-4 feet across, and you had to watch carefully to avoid stepping into them -- they'd go right through a pair of tennis shoes! Saguaro cactus may be pushing it, but what the heck, it's fantasy. Mike ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 21:01:30 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Modelling the plateau on the Gobi desert is an excellent idea. I have found this website on the Gobi desert : http://baatar.freeyellow.com/ for those interested. Altough the human culture of the land is pretty Ethangarian it could be kept, scrapped or transformed with another species I have several ideas on this. > > > > The maps points to cactus but shouldn't this area being north > > of Glantri > > cold ? It is a plateau also tough I don't know how high to make it. > >Here is a description for the Gobi Desert... > >The height of the plateau ranges from 900 m (3,000 ft) above sea level in >the east to 1500 m (5,000 ft) in the west. The surface of the Gobi plateau >consists in the main of rolling gravel plains, interspersed occasionally >with low, flat-topped ranges and isolated hills that are the result of >faulting action. Only the southeastern portion of the Gobi is completely >waterless. The remainder of the region, approximately three-quarters of the >area, has a thin growth of grass, scrub, and thorn sufficient to feed the >flocks of the nomadic herders who live there; water is available in wells >and occasional shallow lakes. The borders of the Gobi to the north and >northwest are fertile, and grassy steppes or prairies lie at the >southeastern edge of the desert area. > >You could also say this was the original homelands of Antalians, originally >from the coastal areas of Norwold, Heldann and Northern Reaches; that were >forced south by Hule, to latter on be Eusdria and Robrenn. You could >possibly put another module here, another one that does not fit any where >else, Journey to the Rock. Also since this plateau is crumbling, possibly >from faults, it could be the original Oltec and Azcan territories (the >Great >Plateau). So there could be ancient and forgotten Oltec/Azcan artifacts >and >ruins. This idea would also account for the Broken Lands Aengmor or >Oencmar, being the closest to Glantri via a valley, and no other Oltec >ruins >anywhere in the Known World. The proximity to Ethengar, Sind and Urduk >peoples would also account for their copper skin complexions as being >remnants from this Great Plateau of Andri Varma. > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 14:45:05 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "Rodney E. Barnes" Organization: The Christian Gamers Guild Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That's Prickly Pear cactus. They can even grow in semi-arid forests, as I've seen them up in the Blue Mountians of Washington and Oregon, but at lower, foot hill, elevations. I've also caught lizards up there too. Prickly Pear cactus grow in large patches and spread almost as bad as black berries do. But they are very delicate and die quickly once damaged by insects or racoons...who love the sweet moist meat. They are very edable, you simply boil off the needles and skin them. Sort of like sweet potatos but not as sweet or strong. They are a good source of moisture as well. The Steep deserts are a Phickel place. Pine trees, Juniper trees, Sage brush, Russian Olive trees, Black Walnut trees, Tumble weeds, Sheet grass, and Prickly Pear cactus make up most of the plant life. Rod ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Harvey" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 12:14 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Andri Varma Plateau > I used to live in north-central Washington State, a few miles south > of the Canadian border.. I think that's around 50 degrees north > lattitude. The climate is semi-arid, pines in the mountains and > sagebrush in the glacier-carved valleys; cold snowy winters and warm > (but not hot) summers. Patches of wild cactus grew everywhere in the > valleys and hills, mixed with the sagebrush. The cacti were small, > only 1-3 inches tall, but grew in large patches 2-4 feet across, and > you had to watch carefully to avoid stepping into them -- they'd go > right through a pair of tennis shoes! > > Saguaro cactus may be pushing it, but what the heck, it's fantasy. > > Mike > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:08:19 CEST Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Giulio Caroletti Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Da: Christopher Cherrington > Data: 26/06/2001 20:56 > A: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Oggetto: Re: [MYSTARA] Andri Varma Plateau > > > That is why I like the idea of the Nithian Lich, recruiting > > insane exiled > > wizards and turning them into intelligent spellcasting > > undead. > > Change that idea to Ancient Azcan Lich with an Ancient Azcan Pyramid, to > better fit my last post. ;) Love work in progress! :) It would be better also for other reasons: 1) Already too many Nithian liches. 2) Immortals would probably have forced Thanatos and Ranivorus to give up all Nithian followers, destroyed along with Nithia. They can hide one or two, but not more, I think, and they should hide. 3) Hosadus is an Avatar-like being. It's highly unlikely that a cleric of Bozdogan/Loki of that power would ever listen to a Lich. Another suggestion: Try to devise something different from the classic "world destruction plot". Something like making the lich an old follower of a dead-Immortal (an evil deity in Azcan or Oltec culture that dwindled and lost followers due to Azcan disappearance from Outer World and Atzanteotl corruption), that is trying to recruit enough new followers to awake him from slumbering state. What about Zugzul, the Afridhi God of War (If I recall correctly). Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:11:35 CEST Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Giulio Caroletti Subject: Rif: Re: [MYSTARA] Andri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It seems we are getting a lot of ideas. What about a new Project for the Adri Varma Plateau? But not too many people...I would go for it...what about Chris and Gilles? Rodney as a bothanic consulent for creating different species of cacti-men? Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 12:30:42 +0300 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Ville V Lahde Subject: The A.V. Plateau In-Reply-To: <200106270707.f5R77iB23083@uta.fi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I missed the opening lines of the Andri Varma plateau thread, so I'm not sure if I got the right idea about where it is. I'm supposing that you're talking about the great plateau north of Sind, west of Wendar/Glantri. To the north of the plateau would be the Northern Wildlands (in the map of X11). In my campaign the plateau is the equivalent of Olympos. It's not the place where the gods/immortals (take your pick) actually live, but their foci of power are on the plateau. I discussed a campaign idea for the plateau in the Mystara timelines I sent for the list a couple of weeks/months ago (check the archives if you are interested). However, travelling to "the Plateau of Gods" isn't possible by usual means. If one just scales the cliffs of the plateau, he/she ends up in a barren landscape devoid of habitation. The actual plateau can be reached only on a divine quest. This of course doesn't rule out any habitation on the "mundane" plateau. Ville ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 13:11:17 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Francesco Defferrari Subject: questions about minrothad MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, i don't own Gaz 9, i found some information about Minrothad in sites on = the web but i have some question to anyone who will be so kind to = answer... It's true that Harbortown is the city founded by alphatians colonists = and Minrothad by nithian colonists later joined by thyatians ? Corser is, i think, the only human guilds... then there is no more a = division between nithian/thyatians and alphatians ? No rivalries ? Are Elsan, Corser, Verdier, Quickhand and Hammer the most important = guilds ? What place have others guilds like sailor, mercenary, tutorial = and thieves guilds ? Are those mentioned the nine guilds ? Are the guilds specialized in something ? For example maybe Elsan sell = sea products ? How are the relations between guilds ? Who is enemy of who ? Who = attempted several times to kill Oran Meditor ? Maybe Corser ? Thank you to anyone who can reply. Bye Francesco "What can change the nature of a man ?" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 08:53:43 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: questions about minrothad MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Francesco Defferrari [mailto:sturm@LIBERO.IT] > Hello, > i don't own Gaz 9, i found some information about Minrothad > in sites on the web but i have some question to anyone who > will be so kind to answer... > It's true that Harbortown is the city founded by alphatians > colonists and Minrothad by nithian colonists later joined by > thyatians ? The Nithian colonists (followers of the Nithian, Minroth) were there first, the Alphatians most likely got absorbed into the human culture. > Corser is, i think, the only human guilds... then there is no > more a division between nithian/thyatians and alphatians ? No > rivalries ? With the dominance of the Elven Guilds, and a bad taste for Thyatians (blamed for the spread of Lycanthropy) Most humans were hunted and killed in several of the histories purges (Lycanthropy is deadly to the elves in Mystara). Because of the dominance of the first humans (Nithians), most humans from other cultures adopted the lifestyles of these Nithians and called themselves Followers of Minroth, to become Minrothad. If there are any 'straight' Thyatians, they would be better off not letting anybody know, and hide as a Minrothad native. > Are Elsan, Corser, Verdier, Quickhand and Hammer the most > important guilds ? What place have others guilds like sailor, > mercenary, tutorial and thieves guilds ? Are those mentioned > the nine guilds ? > Are the guilds specialized in something ? For example maybe > Elsan sell sea products ? > How are the relations between guilds ? Who is enemy of who ? > Who attempted several times to kill Oran Meditor ? Maybe Corser ? > Thank you to anyone who can reply. > Bye I'll have to refresh my memory on this, I don't remember which guild houses actually do for each 'occupation'. Officially, because of other guilds attempted assassinations, thieves that have been caught only have one punishment, death. So there is no Thieves Guild, but Oran is smart enough to keep the real thieves close to him in service for the better of Minrothad as a spy network (Silver Eels?) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 08:56:58 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Rif: Re: [MYSTARA] Andri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I'm game, send me the info. I would love to be a part of fleshing out such an unclaimed area. When I got the time, my PBeM is really getting big <<-shameless plug->> ;) > -----Original Message----- > From: Giulio Caroletti [mailto:scarole@TIN.IT] > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 7:12 AM > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: [MYSTARA] Rif: Re: [MYSTARA] Andri Varma Plateau > > > It seems we are getting a lot of ideas. What about a > new Project for the Adri Varma Plateau? But not too many > people...I would go for it...what about Chris and Gilles? > Rodney as a bothanic consulent for creating different > species of cacti-men? > > Iulius Sergius Scaevola > Captain of the XXth Cohort > Port Lucinius, Thyatis > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:24:04 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Addition to my web site. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For people interested in the Borigon web site I have finally finished the Power Building web page. You can access the site at www.borigon.com. Power building details how to develop psychic, magical, spiritual, and religious powers in the Borigon system. George ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 20:00:17 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: Rif: Re: [MYSTARA] Andri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit need some map in 8 miles per hex format???? Thibault Sarlat. ICQ 16622177. homepage http://www.mystara.fr.st Join me at: thibsylv@club-internet.fr or at clenarius@hotmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Giulio Caroletti To: Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 1:11 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] Rif: Re: [MYSTARA] Andri Varma Plateau > It seems we are getting a lot of ideas. What about a > new Project for the Adri Varma Plateau? But not too many > people...I would go for it...what about Chris and Gilles? > Rodney as a bothanic consulent for creating different > species of cacti-men? > > Iulius Sergius Scaevola > Captain of the XXth Cohort > Port Lucinius, Thyatis > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 14:56:28 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Giulio Caroletti > It would be better also for other reasons: > > 1) Already too many Nithian liches. > 2) Immortals would probably have forced Thanatos and > Ranivorus to give up all Nithian followers, destroyed > along with Nithia. They can hide one or two, but not more, > I think, and they should hide. > 3) Hosadus is an Avatar-like being. It's highly unlikely > that a cleric of Bozdogan/Loki of that power would ever > listen to a Lich. > > Another suggestion: > Try to devise something different from the classic > "world destruction plot". Something like > making the lich an old follower of a dead-Immortal > (an evil deity in Azcan or Oltec culture that dwindled > and lost followers due to Azcan disappearance from Outer > World and Atzanteotl corruption), that is trying to recruit > enough new followers to awake him from slumbering state. > What about Zugzul, the Afridhi God of War (If I recall > correctly). > How powerful would that make the Azcan Lich? He would have been around since the days of Blackmoor, 1000 years before the rise of the Nithian civilization. That is allot of time to be patiently waiting for a plot to turn. He would be like a major antediluvian, or a manipulator of several Illuminati. A lich that ancient could and would have some influence on Hosadus, probably through dreams. His body would have turned to dust long ago, now he manipulates through dreams via a gate between the Nightmare and/or have access to Limbo. How would you kill a lich that does not exist except in your dreams? :0 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 15:02:07 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher Cherrington > How would you kill a lich that does not > exist except in your dreams? :0 > This may explain why nobody has really claimed this land, or survived to explore it, or even why there is no Known World history of this area. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 19:27:49 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Rif: Re: [MYSTARA] Andri Varma Plateau Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >I'm game, send me the info. I would love to be a part of fleshing out such >an unclaimed area. When I got the time, my PBeM is really getting big ><<-shameless plug->> ;) > I was already planning on doing some thing so im game too. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 19:29:02 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Rif: Re: [MYSTARA] Andri Varma Plateau Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >need some map in 8 miles per hex format???? > > That would be useful tough I would like before to have some ideas of things that should be placed on the map. If you want to volonteer tough I have no problems with that. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 19:31:01 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Christopher Cherrington > > > How would you kill a lich that does not > > exist except in your dreams? :0 > > >This may explain why nobody has really claimed this land, or survived to >explore it, or even why there is no Known World history of this area. > We could still make for some non-evil civilizations on the plateau. It's actually pretty big. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 16:22:35 -0300 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: John Peterson Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau In-Reply-To: <71E277A7F4FCD2118A700008C79F72559C55BA@JOSHUA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just a note, wouldn't that make it a Demi-Lich or 2nd Ed fame? The Lich's body has crumbled to dust leaving an ethereal for of it left, ala Acererak in the Tomb or Horrors module. John Peterson MCSE, MCP, A+, Net+, CLS, CLP blackice@nbnet.nb.ca blackice@canada.com "And the rock cried out, 'No hiding place!'" -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Christopher Cherrington Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 4:02 PM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Andri Varma Plateau > -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher Cherrington > How would you kill a lich that does not > exist except in your dreams? :0 > This may explain why nobody has really claimed this land, or survived to explore it, or even why there is no Known World history of this area. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 15:38:04 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Gilles Leblanc [mailto:bleakcabal@HOTMAIL.COM] > We could still make for some non-evil civilizations on the > plateau. It's > actually pretty big. > We could even make the lich a protector of the plateau, watching over his 'children', keeping the outside world out. Or he is the buffer layer to more exotic nations, nobody that gets through would want to suffer the nightmares again to come back. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 16:05:22 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: John Peterson [mailto:blackice@NBNET.NB.CA] > Just a note, wouldn't that make it a Demi-Lich or 2nd Ed > fame? The Lich's > body has crumbled to dust leaving an ethereal for of it left, > ala Acererak > in the Tomb or Horrors module. Yes, it would make him a form of demi-lich. But with his age factored in, he would be allot more powerful than Acererak. Imagine an Acererak that has not been defeated and left to his own devices for 3000+ more years. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 20:07:46 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Whatever is chosen the lich shouldn't hinder us to put some other cultures/locations. I was thinkins since a trail from Sind and from Glantri heads into the plateau, they may have some contact with the natives. Altough I think the lich is a good idea we have to be careful how much it "blocks" contact with those nations. For exemple it could be situated more to the north-east ( just a guess, not a sugestions ) so it could protect or keep out poeple from this part, but then it wouldn't convey too much their power. We would have to find some kind of compromise. Maybe the dreams affects all travelers passing through one region, also the undead creating effect mentioned earlier. The lich could be protector of all the plateau but from a certain point it would exert less influence as it would judge some places or controlling more than a certain amount of territory superflus or not all that useful. Altough we could also make the lich 100 % controll the plateau, but that's a decision we have to make. > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gilles Leblanc [mailto:bleakcabal@HOTMAIL.COM] > > > We could still make for some non-evil civilizations on the > > plateau. It's > > actually pretty big. > > >We could even make the lich a protector of the plateau, watching over his >'children', keeping the outside world out. >Or he is the buffer layer to more exotic nations, nobody that gets through >would want to suffer the nightmares again to come back. > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 13:25:31 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau In-Reply-To: <71E277A7F4FCD2118A700008C79F72559C55D2@JOSHUA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > We could even make the lich a protector of the > plateau, watching over his > 'children', keeping the outside world out. > Or he is the buffer layer to more exotic nations, > nobody that gets through > would want to suffer the nightmares again to come > back. a lich will naturally have evil, or at least very bazar inclinations. Remember that most lich's are that way because they were powerful necromancers who did not want to die and so become undead. There soul resides in a gem doesn't it? so to kill a lich you must destry the gem. Maybe it is a holy item of one of the inhabitants. Maybe the lich was the creator of the cati-men. Just thinkin' Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 16:49:36 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Gilles Leblanc [mailto:bleakcabal@HOTMAIL.COM] > > The lich could be protector of all the plateau but from a > certain point it > would exert less influence as it would judge some places or > controlling more > than a certain amount of territory superflus or not all that useful. > He would probably not even be considered a lich, the locals might dismiss him as a 'bad dream' or 'winds of madness'. At any rate, putting intelligent life on the plateau is a good idea. This would be a place where many Glantrian experiments go wrong, and rather than face the Known World as another monster, self exile themselves to this area to stay away from the 'real monsters' aka 'adventurers'. I believe some of the Mongol type hobgoblins and ogres came from this area, and not from Ethengar. I will read Gaz 10 again to check up on that source. If that is so, there may be a bigger Mongolian style horde than Ethengar (remnants of the Orcish Great Horde?). If that is so, why would the Mongol style humanoids move to the broken lands, driven out by a more successful race? So there may be no more horde of these steppes. In the RW, who replaced the Mongols in the west? Kirgins? Iranians? Afghanistan? These types of cultures are somewhat represented by Hule (except the Kirgs). Would Antalian barbarians civilize these cultures into a men of the Rus? (Russian). Many possibilities... but I would not civilize the whole area with more creature characters, S.C. did this enough. Cacti men, sand people, and maybe another, we would not want roving bands of Cacti adventurers visiting the Known World. My previous message on the severity of hostile conditions should still apply, this would be a good buffer for why nobody has made any contact on the other side of the plateau. Just as in the Gobi description, the only waterless (therefore hostile) area of the Gobi was in the southeast. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 23:32:07 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Gilles Leblanc : > Whatever is chosen the lich shouldn't hinder us to > put some other > cultures/locations. I was thinkins since a trail > from Sind and from Glantri > heads into the plateau, they may have some contact > with the natives. I was wondering whether you guys have considered using Gulluvia at all? True, the culture described in B3 (orange cover) wasn't very original, and I personally am inclined to place Haven in Karameikos. Still, I have so far decided to use the rest of the info from that version of B3 to describe the plateau (including the map!) > Altough I think the lich is a good idea we have to > be careful how much it > "blocks" contact with those nations. I really like the Azcan lich too! If he is as powerful as some on this list have suggested, he would be very close to immortality. I like what some have suggested that he merely affects local politics and creatures' behaviour through dreams. Havard ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 15:18:22 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think the Skull Legions being forced out of the Alfheim Forest and = escorting the elves to Wendar would probably then focus on this area. Lord = Nightbay would want to situate a new legion, and this one would be more = accessible with lines of supply than the Savage coast nations. Also the = fact that a Lich controls the area, warriors who look like undead = themselves would fit right in. The legions would be more than happy to = dissuade others from going into the area, as this would leave them alone = to explore the many ruins. Also, Nightbay with Immortality potion and four = undead councilors would now what would be acceptable terms to such a = ruler.=20 Any suggestions on the realm name or that of the leader? JK Wolf >>> havardfaa@YAHOO.NO 06/27/01 02:32PM >>> --- Gilles Leblanc : > Whatever is chosen the lich shouldn't hinder us to > put some other > cultures/locations. I was thinkins since a trail > from Sind and from Glantri > heads into the plateau, they may have some contact > with the natives. I was wondering whether you guys have considered using Gulluvia at all? True, the culture described in B3 (orange cover) wasn't very original, and I personally am inclined to place Haven in Karameikos. Still, I have so far decided to use the rest of the info from that version of B3 to describe the plateau (including the map!) > Altough I think the lich is a good idea we have to > be careful how much it > "blocks" contact with those nations. I really like the Azcan lich too! If he is as powerful as some on this list have suggested, he would be very close to immortality. I like what some have suggested that he merely affects local politics and creatures' behaviour through dreams. Havard ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p=E5 http://no.invites.yahoo.com=20 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp=20 The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/=20 To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:22:27 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Multizar the Mage Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Perhaps the Lich is the very reason for the Andri Varma Plateau in the first= =20 place. Multizar the Mage --- Gilles Leblanc : > Whatever is chosen the lich shouldn't hinder us to > put some other > cultures/locations. I was thinkins since a trail > from Sind and from Glantri > heads into the plateau,=A0 they may have some contact > with the natives. I was wondering whether you guys have considered using Gulluvia at all? True, the culture described in B3 (orange cover) wasn't very original, and I personally am inclined to place Haven in Karameikos. Still, I have so far decided to use the rest of the info from that version of B3 to describe the plateau (including the map!) > Altough I think the lich is a good idea we have to > be careful how much it > "blocks" contact with those nations. I really like the Azcan lich too! If he is as powerful as some on this list have suggested, he would be very close to immortality. I like what some have suggested that he merely affects local politics and creatures' behaviour through dreams. Havard ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:21:22 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau In-Reply-To: <47.d20a5e9.286bb6a3@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > -----Original Message----- > From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] On > Behalf Of Multizar the Mage > Perhaps the Lich is the very reason for the Andri Varma Plateau in the > first > place. Or the lich realized he was losing his body over the centuries, decided to create a great artifact that would keep his presence on Mystara. But the artifact was too powerful and keeps his essence trapped within the land of the plateau itself. Since he was a lich, and a worshiper of Entropy, the land is now dieing; falling apart, polluting its rivers, creating winds of nightmares. If their was or is a culture of Azcans left, they may be sacrifising their kings to appease the pain of the lich... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:44:38 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: James Mishler Subject: Re: Rif: Re: [MYSTARA] Andri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <> Thibault? Volunteering to make a map? Good to see things haven't changed much in my absence... :) James Mishler AKA Mystaros ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 20:47:59 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Multizar the Mage Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Perhaps the Lich is the very reason for the Andri Varma Plateau in the > first > place. >Or the lich realized he was losing his body over the centuries, decided >to create a great artifact that would keep his presence on Mystara.=A0 But >the artifact was too powerful and keeps his essence trapped within the >land of the plateau itself.=A0 Since he was a lich, and a worshiper of >Entropy, the land is now dieing; falling apart, polluting its rivers, >creating winds of nightmares.=A0 If their was or is a culture of Azcans >left, they may be sacrifising their kings to appease the pain of the >lich... There should be some cool Azcan pyramid temples in ruins, full of treasures=20 and monsters! The magic confining the undead legions of the Lich are waning=20 due to the magic loss of Mystara and undead are roaming into Wendar, Glantri= ,=20 and Sind. The governments of those nations are asking adventuring parties to= =20 investigate. Multizar the Mage ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 07:31:08 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: Rif: Re: [MYSTARA] Andri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit well i was saying that because i already made it.... but i can change it easily... Thibault Sarlat. ICQ 16622177. homepage http://www.mystara.fr.st Join me at: thibsylv@club-internet.fr or at clenarius@hotmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Gilles Leblanc To: Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 9:29 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Rif: Re: [MYSTARA] Andri Varma Plateau > >need some map in 8 miles per hex format???? > > > > > > That would be useful tough I would like before to have some ideas of things > that should be placed on the map. If you want to volonteer tough I have no > problems with that. > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 07:40:29 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes, but he could also have been trapped in some special artifact and have just been recently freed by the week without magic...(that would explain the length of time he spent there). I think that the whole plateau cannot be counted as wild and deserted since there are tracks crossing it , which are used by darokin merchants... Thibault Sarlat. ICQ 16622177. homepage http://www.mystara.fr.st Join me at: thibsylv@club-internet.fr or at clenarius@hotmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Christopher Cherrington To: Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 10:05 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Andri Varma Plateau > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Peterson [mailto:blackice@NBNET.NB.CA] > > > Just a note, wouldn't that make it a Demi-Lich or 2nd Ed > > fame? The Lich's > > body has crumbled to dust leaving an ethereal for of it left, > > ala Acererak > > in the Tomb or Horrors module. > > Yes, it would make him a form of demi-lich. But with his age factored in, > he would be allot more powerful than Acererak. Imagine an Acererak that has > not been defeated and left to his own devices for 3000+ more years. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 09:10:51 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Here we are... The Andri Varma Plateau was the original homelands of the Oltec and Azcan civilizations. When the Azcan revolted for the first time, the Oltec King wanted to make an example of the Azcans, and hunted down and captured the rebellious leader... Andri Varma? Andri was a powerful cleric in his own rites, worshipping the demon only known as "The Swallower of the Fifth Sun" (insert Aztec translations for the names, Andri Varma would be some corrupted form of an Azcan name). The King had this vile traitor publicly slaughtered, not knowing that was what Andri Varma had planned. This was the final step Andri needed to finish his dark rites and become immortal. Only the demon did not explain his immortality was in undeath as a lich (considering the time period, would not Andri be the very first lich?) Andri laid down his plots to finally free his people from the hated Oltecs. When everything was coming to his wishes, Blackmoor catastrophically explodes, trapping Andri Varma into his own artifact. For thousands of years his artifact (Pyramid of evil, turning everything into undead) has laid beneath the plateau, slowly corrupting the ground, causing tremors, making it brittle, polluting its rivers and wells. Andri Varma's only form of communication has been through dreams via a gate into the Nightmare Dimension from the plane of Limbo. After the week of no magic, he was able to temporarily escape his artifact and cause it to rise out of the ground. Then his thousands of years bond called him back into the artifact, against his will. But with the artifact out of the ground, it is causing more corruption, in a greater area. Every year when the Day of Dread comes by, Andri gets closer to finally being totally free of his prison. The local people, descendants of the left over Azcans that intermingled with other tribes (proto-Ethengars, Antalians, Carnuilh), have always stayed away from this area near Glantri. Saying things like, bad dreams, bad magic, sleeping evil. This area was always avoided by the locals, leaving it for exiled mages from Glantri, cacti-men, earthquake beetles, purple worms, et. The total corrupting effect has only been 3, 8 mile hexes near the border of Glantri, but now the effects are double in size, affecting 48 square miles of terrain nearer the Glantrian border than before (maybe part of this newer range is affecting half of a civilized city, further north on the plateau) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 09:32:56 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Continued... The locals can be modeled after the Kirgs, I only know of their brutality from the movie "Highlander". They would be more civilized now, after a couple of decades of trade from Darokin, Sind and Hule (each nation influencing a part of their culture in recent times). Because of their intermingling with Antalian & Carnuilh stock, they could be worshipping a Norse/Druidic type pantheon of Ethengarian Spirit worship (although a bit corrupted from ancient legends passed down by their Azcan ancestry). They would not necessarily be an evil race, just one influenced by several catastrophic events, so they would be a dark/brutal race of survivors. Atzanteotl would not have cared for these leftover Azcans; by the time he reached immortality they were already far and away from their original stock and culture. But now that they are becoming more noticeable by trade/influence, he may be trying to influence them now. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 13:43:12 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Rif: Re: [MYSTARA] Andri Varma Plateau Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >well i was saying that because i already made it.... >but i can change it easily... > > ??? I looked on your site for a map but didn't find it... I'll go look again. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 13:46:36 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I must tell you it's Adri Varma plateau, also known as the great northern wildlands. It's my fault I made an error when I spelled the post. >Here we are... >The Andri Varma Plateau was the original homelands of the Oltec and Azcan >civilizations. When the Azcan revolted for the first time, the Oltec King >wanted to make an example of the Azcans, and hunted down and captured the >rebellious leader... Andri Varma? Andri was a powerful cleric in his own >rites, worshipping the demon only known as "The Swallower of the Fifth Sun" >(insert Aztec translations for the names, Andri Varma would be some >corrupted form of an Azcan name). The King had this vile traitor publicly >slaughtered, not knowing that was what Andri Varma had planned. This was >the final step Andri needed to finish his dark rites and become immortal. >Only the demon did not explain his immortality was in undeath as a lich >(considering the time period, would not Andri be the very first lich?) >Andri laid down his plots to finally free his people from the hated Oltecs. >When everything was coming to his wishes, Blackmoor catastrophically >explodes, trapping Andri Varma into his own artifact. For thousands of >years his artifact (Pyramid of evil, turning everything into undead) has >laid beneath the plateau, slowly corrupting the ground, causing tremors, >making it brittle, polluting its rivers and wells. Andri Varma's only form >of communication has been through dreams via a gate into the Nightmare >Dimension from the plane of Limbo. After the week of no magic, he was able >to temporarily escape his artifact and cause it to rise out of the ground. >Then his thousands of years bond called him back into the artifact, against >his will. But with the artifact out of the ground, it is causing more >corruption, in a greater area. Every year when the Day of Dread comes by, >Andri gets closer to finally being totally free of his prison. The local >people, descendants of the left over Azcans that intermingled with other >tribes (proto-Ethengars, Antalians, Carnuilh), have always stayed away from >this area near Glantri. Saying things like, bad dreams, bad magic, >sleeping >evil. >This area was always avoided by the locals, leaving it for exiled mages >from >Glantri, cacti-men, earthquake beetles, purple worms, et. The total >corrupting effect has only been 3, 8 mile hexes near the border of Glantri, >but now the effects are double in size, affecting 48 square miles of >terrain >nearer the Glantrian border than before (maybe part of this newer range is >affecting half of a civilized city, further north on the plateau) > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 09:53:05 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Continued... Andri Varma may have sensed recent influences of Atzanteotl, and most likely not like it. He would be hard pressed to destroy anything influenced by this 'pretender of an Azcan original immortal". ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 09:57:56 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Good, Adri Varma sounds better than a corruption of Andre. Could the original Azcan name be Atzri-voca, or any better ideas? > -----Original Message----- > From: Gilles Leblanc [mailto:bleakcabal@HOTMAIL.COM] > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 9:47 AM > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Andri Varma Plateau > > > I must tell you it's Adri Varma plateau, also known as the > great northern > wildlands. It's my fault I made an error when I spelled the post. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 15:58:35 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: Rif: Re: [MYSTARA] Andri Varma Plateau Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i meant that i did it on my computer but i have not made it available yet.= . ----Message d'origine---- >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 13:43:12 -0000 >De: Gilles Leblanc >Sujet: Re: =5BMYSTARA=5D Rif: Re: =5BMYSTARA=5D Andri Varma Plateau >A: MYSTARA-L=40ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > >>well i was saying that because i already made it.... >>but i can change it easily... >> >> > >??? I looked on your site for a map but didn't find it... I'll go look >again. >=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV=40ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177 homepage www.mystara.fr.st join me at thibsylv=40club-internet.fr or at clenarius=40hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 10:13:33 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Other civilizations could be modeled after the first, each with more influence of one stock over the other. I often played with an idea of humans that were captured and enslaved by orcs, only after so many years of capture, the orcs and humans ended up absorbing each of their cultures. Then we could have some demi-halforc race running around up there. The 'nobles' could actually be pure orcs that have interbred with each other for so long, that they have numerous mutations/disabilities. Now that we are going north of Glantri on the western side of the Wyrmsteeth range, are we not putting a civilization close the one mentioned in CM1, of cannibalistic royalty that eat their subjects in secrecy? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:13:53 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Good, Adri Varma sounds better than a corruption of Andre. Could the >original Azcan name be Atzri-voca, or any better ideas? > I see no reasons for the original name not to be Adri Varma ? Why have two names ? I live in a province of Canada that speaks both french and english and I don't have a name in each language, just one in french. Also there's a tendancy to put Z and T and the names of everything azcan :) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:15:56 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Who are/were the Kirgs ? And what was the reasoning for them being on the plateau ? Are they similar to the mongols. >Continued... >The locals can be modeled after the Kirgs, I only know of their brutality >from the movie "Highlander". They would be more civilized now, after a >couple of decades of trade from Darokin, Sind and Hule (each nation >influencing a part of their culture in recent times). Because of their >intermingling with Antalian & Carnuilh stock, they could be worshipping a >Norse/Druidic type pantheon of Ethengarian Spirit worship (although a bit >corrupted from ancient legends passed down by their Azcan ancestry). They >would not necessarily be an evil race, just one influenced by several >catastrophic events, so they would be a dark/brutal race of survivors. >Atzanteotl would not have cared for these leftover Azcans; by the time he >reached immortality they were already far and away from their original >stock >and culture. But now that they are becoming more noticeable by >trade/influence, he may be trying to influence them now. > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 10:42:10 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > I see no reasons for the original name not to be Adri Varma ? > Why have two > names ? I live in a province of Canada that speaks both > french and english > and I don't have a name in each language, just one in french. > > Also there's a tendancy to put Z and T and the names of > everything azcan :) I was just trying to put a historical link to the name, if someone searches for a Adri Varma that the plateau was named after, they would not find one. If the name Adri Varma was a corruption of a lost civilization name, it adds to the mystery of its historical beginnings. Nobody would now that Adri Varma is a corruption of Atzri-voca the lich. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:59:29 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gilles Leblanc wrote: > > I see no reasons for the original name not to be Adri Varma ? Why have two > names ? I live in a province of Canada that speaks both french and english > and I don't have a name in each language, just one in french. That's probably because you're not (yet :P) an historical figure from an ancient civilization. Quite often, names are modified to suit the newer languages: Mark Antony or Pompey the Great, for example. Modern cultures tend to preserve names in their original form, but older ones adapted or translated them. As an example, I can point you to the names of the egyptian pharaohs as they were written by the Greek historians, mainly Herodotus. You will find that the writing is quite different from what is red in egyptian texts. Example: "Sesostris" for "Senusret". -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 07:52:19 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >Good, Adri Varma sounds better than a corruption of Andre. Could the >original Azcan name be Atzri-voca, or any better ideas? > I see no reasons for the original name not to be Adri Varma ? Why have two names ? I live in a province of Canada that speaks both french and english and I don't have a name in each language, just one in french. << Yes, but Adri Varma doesn't sound the least bit Azcan. It makes more sense that an Azcan lich would have an Azcan sounding name. Over the span of what? 4000+ years or so, that name is going to change. The lich would probably still use his original name (if he even cares about such things), but it's the local populace who would be using a bastardized version of it. So it's not really a case of giving the lich 2 names, it's more about giving the lich (and the plateau) a more detailed and fleshed out background and history. >> Also there's a tendancy to put Z and T and the names of everything azcan :) << Not without good reason as Z and T make names sound more Azcan. :) I do agree though that this need not be done. For some reason the name "Uxmal" jumps into my head and that was IIRC an Aztec city. However Uxmal doesn't sound anything like Adri Varma... :( I like Atzri-voca. John ===== Rule #53. If the beautiful princess that I capture says "I'll never marry you! Never, do you hear me, NEVER!!!", I will say "Oh well" and kill her. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 10:13:48 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: ramhog Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau In-Reply-To: <71E277A7F4FCD2118A700008C79F72559C5617@JOSHUA> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Good, Adri Varma sounds better than a corruption of Andre. Could the >original Azcan name be Atzri-voca, or any better ideas? > Adri Varma sounds very Hindu to me, so I would tend to think it has some connection to Sind. But, if the plateau is where I think it is (just west of Wendar on the upper left corner of the Western Countries trail map) then that puts it pretty far away from Sind (I think). -- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:05:58 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Michael McConnell Subject: More on Minrothand Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii These are, in fact, pretty much all of the main guilds, although I'm not familiar with any sort of "Nine Guild" structure. The guild specialties are: Guild Elsan (water elves)- shipmaking, navigation, sailing, and just about anything having to do with boats. Guild Verdier (wood elves)- textiles, woodworking, bowmaking Guild Hammer (dwarves)- minings, smithing, all the usual dwarf stuff Guild Quickhand (halflings)- leatherworking, fuelmaking, and other small cottage industries such as ceramics and glass Guild Corser (humans)- magical items, tobacco, alcohol, spice These are the main guilds- the other ones are basically political guilds with some pull. The mercenary guild serves as the country's military force, while the tutorial guild oversees all magic. The thieves guild is completely underground, but does do some unofficial espionage work for the government. Don't forget that the merchant princes have their own guild, and it's fairly strong as they're sort of the elite traders. As for guild politics, Oran's main enemies are Corser and Verdier and people within his own Guild, most notably former guildmaster Linias Kasan. All of them have attempted to kill him at some time or another, and Oran is being quite careful these days. One of the reasons he's having so many problems are some of the reforms he's done attempting to get his country to catch up with the rest of the world. Of course, much of this just seems to be a convenient excuse for the humans and wood elves, who have been waiting for the chance for a coup. Hope this helps. M. Alright honey, I won't be weird. I'll be just the way YOU want me to be. -Lester in "American Beauty" _________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE zombieworld.com Email account at... http://www.evilemail.com zombieworld.com - The dead come back to life, just for you. _________________________________________________________ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:23:51 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Gilles Leblanc [mailto:bleakcabal@HOTMAIL.COM] > > Who are/were the Kirgs ? And what was the reasoning for them > being on the > plateau ? Are they similar to the mongols. > The Kirgs were a Mongolian tribe that decimated part of the Persian Empire, when the Mongols moved south off the steppes. They settled the area, and latter became Islamic, then were defeated and ruled by the Russian Empire, then latter became a Soviet State and lastly independence as Kirgistan. The original (Mongolian) Kirgs were especially brutal. They were reported to have thrown their children in a pit with extremely feral dogs, the children that killed each other and killed the dogs were then spared and allowed to live within their society. (this is taken from the movie "Highlander" the big bad guy with the mean sword was a Kirgin, and known as 'the Kirg') how much is actually real, I don't know, but for a Mystaran Kirg, this sounds good. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:33:08 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: ramhog [mailto:ramhog@PRODIGY.NET] > Adri Varma sounds very Hindu to me, so I would tend to think it has > some connection to Sind. But, if the plateau is where I think it is > (just west of Wendar on the upper left corner of the Western > Countries trail map) then that puts it pretty far away from Sind (I > think). > -- The Sindhi name would most likely stand as its most modern corruption. The Darokins would have called it by the Sindhi name when they trade between the two areas. Since Glantri deals with Darokin and not Sind, then they would call it by whatever Darokin calls it. Glantri would not have major relations to the plateau, because of the extreme conditions, nightmares, and bad reputation of this is where you leave your creations when you can't control them anymore. Sindhi adventurers would have been the first ones to the plateau in modern history, and called it by their best pronunciation. The locals that live their probably don't even call the plateau by that name at all, but call the area south towards Glantri by that name (or a name that is not corrupted by Sindhi). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 09:20:36 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Mike Harvey Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau In-Reply-To: <20010628145219.92057.qmail@web14202.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT John Calvin wrote: > Yes, but Adri Varma doesn't sound the least bit Azcan. It does sound Aryan though. Maybe ancestors of the Sindhi? Alternately, it sounds (to my uneducated ears) vaguely Latin or Italian. Maybe there was an ancient tribe on the plateau which eventually migrated into the Glantri region? Could it be a Hulean name? In any case, there is no reason the lich has to be named Adri Varma. Over thousands of years, the plateau has undoubtedly gone though many names as cultures move around, and Adri Varma is probably the latest Glantrian or Sindhi name for it. It is quite likely that the lich's name would long forgotten and totally unrelated. Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Harvey gm@dsl-only.net (formerly bing@iccom.com) http://members.dsl-only.net/~bing/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 09:20:36 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Mike Harvey Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau In-Reply-To: <71E277A7F4FCD2118A700008C79F72559C561A@JOSHUA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Now that we are going north of Glantri on the western side of the Wyrmsteeth > range, are we not putting a civilization close the one mentioned in CM1, of > cannibalistic royalty that eat their subjects in secrecy? Eh? What's this about CM1 and cannibalistic royalty? Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Harvey gm@dsl-only.net (formerly bing@iccom.com) http://members.dsl-only.net/~bing/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 12:53:23 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Harvey [mailto:gm@DSL-ONLY.NET] > > > Now that we are going north of Glantri on the western side > of the Wyrmsteeth > > range, are we not putting a civilization close the one > mentioned in CM1, of > > cannibalistic royalty that eat their subjects in secrecy? > > Eh? What's this about CM1 and cannibalistic royalty? > It has been awhile, maybe it is not in CM1, but in the old Creature Catalogue (the Green Book) there is a reference to a lost race of humans west of Norwold's mountains. This race of humans have a royal family that eats its populace to sustain themselves in their harsh climate. I remember reading it somewhere, is it in the green book? or any of the Norwold adventures? Its been a long time, I really don't know where I read this little tidbit. Also the Denagoth Plateau is said to have been inhabited by humans from the west, these western humans would be just north of the Adri Varma Plateau. They could be related, or the proto-Denagothians were forced out do to previous wars with the Adri Varmans. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 13:07:18 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher Cherrington > The locals that live their probably don't even call the > plateau by that name > at all, but call the area south towards Glantri by that name > (or a name that > is not corrupted by Sindhi). Good example of this type of naming convention is the fact we call Native Americans, Indians. Because the first explorer to deal with them thought he was in India. The first to deal with people on the plateau would have been Darokin Merchants looking for new trade from a Sindhi map that was probably embellished as to say that the whole plateau was called Adri Varda, even though the locals only call the one bad area close to Glantri by that name. Once Darokin established its trade route, Darokin tells the world about the great items to buy from Adri Varma. Now the people that live there might know where their from, but when they say it, everyone says "huh?, you mean that plateau above Glantri? oh, ok, you mean Adri Varma!" Now the name is associated for a whole area. As for other maps calling it the Great Wildlands, like in 2ed Glantri, these would have been maps from before several entrepreneurial Darokinians put a name for it on the map. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 13:44:38 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Listserv being slow MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Is anybody else waiting 20 minutes for their messages to post, or is this a local problem on my end? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:04:52 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Of course all of this can be negligible, the maps list trails, but they might not be there. In RW history, many mapmakers assumed these types of mistakes. Their reasoning was that once they put it on the map, and people went there, then there was the trail and they had the most accurate map all along. They would even go as far as placing Kingdoms that did not exist (Prester John, king of northern Africa or India, depending on which maps you read). People have been known to go to great lengths for hoaxes such as this. The Catholic church warned many eastern European nations not to attack the western European nations, because they were allied with Prester John, and he had thousands of good Catholics in his armies. The church used this hoax several times in a 200 year span, and it was still the good king Prester John that was ruling all along (He must of been a really good king, to live to be over 200 years old). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 20:27:27 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Gilles Leblanc : > I must tell you it's Adri Varma plateau, also known > as the great northern > wildlands. It's my fault I made an error when I > spelled the post. Actually, I think the Northern Wildlands is the area north of the Adri Varma Plateau. This might not be clear on all maps, but it was the impression I got from the map in the Saga of the Shadowlord module. Havard ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 21:40:22 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Other civilizations could be modeled after the first, each with more >influence of one stock over the other. I often played with an idea of >humans that were captured and enslaved by orcs, only after so many years of >capture, the orcs and humans ended up absorbing each of their cultures. >Then we could have some demi-halforc race running around up there. The >'nobles' could actually be pure orcs that have interbred with each other >for >so long, that they have numerous mutations/disabilities. >Now that we are going north of Glantri on the western side of the >Wyrmsteeth >range, are we not putting a civilization close the one mentioned in CM1, of >cannibalistic royalty that eat their subjects in secrecy? > I think I have CM1 but don't remember this ? What are you refering to ? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 21:42:34 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >>Good, Adri Varma sounds better than a corruption of Andre. Could the >>original Azcan name be Atzri-voca, or any better ideas? >> > >Adri Varma sounds very Hindu to me, so I would tend to think it has >some connection to Sind. But, if the plateau is where I think it is >(just west of Wendar on the upper left corner of the Western >Countries trail map) then that puts it pretty far away from Sind (I >think). >-- > No it's just north of Sind _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 21:48:10 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >--- Gilles Leblanc : > > > I must tell you it's Adri Varma plateau, also known > > as the great northern > > wildlands. It's my fault I made an error when I > > spelled the post. > >Actually, I think the Northern Wildlands is the area >north of the Adri Varma Plateau. This might not be >clear on all maps, but it was the impression I got >from the map in the Saga of the Shadowlord module. > >Havard > No I have looked this on several maps ( all I own ) and I have noticed that MORE maps call it Great Northern Wildlands than Adri Varma plateau _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 12:29:07 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Richard Tongue Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't remember anything like this in CM1, but it sounds similar to the Qauriks from the Creature Catalogue (AC9). Richard >>Now that we are going north of Glantri on the western side of the >>Wyrmsteeth >>range, are we not putting a civilization close the one mentioned in CM1, of >>cannibalistic royalty that eat their subjects in secrecy? >> > >I think I have CM1 but don't remember this ? What are you refering to ? >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 22:12:18 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >I don't remember anything like this in CM1, but it sounds similar to the >Qauriks from the Creature Catalogue (AC9). > >Richard DMR2 also has them on page 75, altough they live in cold artic climes. "The quauriks live in a domed crystal city within the polar regions." and "The quaurik city lies in the midst of an icy valley." Leads me to beleive it is not on the plateau. Looking at any maps from the plateau does not show mountains while the text continues with : "... by huge avalanches which blocked the mountain passes and have since frozen solid." _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 22:22:24 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed How do we continue this, do we do a net project as mentioned earlier ? If so I want to know who is involved doing what and how we will communicate. Else we could continue with this method having many poeple from the list posting ideas. Since I started this project I will of course do some stuff for it but it seems it has evolved on it's own :) BTW, for all those wondering on my previous net project Magic of Mystara, what has been posted on the Vaults of Pandius is not the latest version and was posted by Shawn without me knowing. I have sent him another version which I was working on. I was considering it nearly finished but stoped working on it in the last weeks. Altough it is not as big as I envisioned it is still complete enough. When I will have more ideas I may also send them to Shawn for him to add them. Since I do not have a web-site, email's won't format well ( no bold character's, ect. ) I will post the project on the Vaults. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 18:53:06 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Adri Varhma Plateau Ideas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Giulio Caroletti" > > 5) Palace of the Silver Princess (version B3/1.0) > 6) Anything else that can make it > > Moreover, nothing prevents Wendar or Glantri to have > connections with people there. Considering that probably > the regions nearer to Glantri are settled by cacti-men, > sand folk or undead, Not quite -- if we use the information from B3, the regions described in it are the ones closest to Glantri. Everything else could be placed freely in what would otherwise be a blank area on the map. > Glantrians and Wendarians may have > little interest (or, if anyone has, it's adventurers and > wizards, so it is quite reasonable that news don't come > through to the core of the Known World). > A lot of work may be done there! > > Iulius Sergius Scaevola > Captain of the XXth Cohort > Port Lucinius, Thyatis > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 01:20:57 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Francesco Defferrari Subject: minrothad MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank Michael and Christopher for the informations written.=20 To Michael, i found the mention of "nine guilds" in Joshuan Almanac, = under the description of Minrothad, but the article didn't mentioned the = guilds themselves..=20 Bye Francesco "What can change the nature of a man ?" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 18:21:57 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: ramhog Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >> >>Adri Varma sounds very Hindu to me, so I would tend to think it has >>some connection to Sind. But, if the plateau is where I think it is >>(just west of Wendar on the upper left corner of the Western >>Countries trail map) then that puts it pretty far away from Sind (I >>think). >>-- >> > > >No it's just north of Sind So why all the Nithian monkey business? Why not just relate it to Sind? I mean, it's not like the plateau *has* to be inhabited, right? Maybe the Sindhi started out there and moved south because it was inhospitable (it is "badlands", isn't it?) or they never expanded north from Sind for the same reason. Hell, it could even be really nice there and simply uninhabited. VVH -- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 19:37:29 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Multizar the Mage Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> >>Adri Varma sounds very Hindu to me, so I would tend to think it has >>some connection to Sind. But, if the plateau is where I think it is >>(just west of Wendar on the upper left corner of the Western >>Countries trail map) then that puts it pretty far away from Sind (I >>think). >>-- >> > > >No it's just north of Sind >So why all the Nithian monkey business? Why not just relate it to >Sind? I mean, it's not like the plateau *has* to be inhabited, right? >Maybe the Sindhi=A0 started out there and moved south because it was >inhospitable (it is "badlands", isn't it?) or they never expanded >north from Sind for the same reason. > >Hell, it could even be really nice there and simply uninhabited. > > >VVH >-- I still prefere the Azcan idea with some eroded pyramids and such. Multizar the Mage ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 19:02:30 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That is whom I was talking about. They are located in a snowed in valley in the IceReach Mountains, west of Norwold. Too far north for the plateau. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] On > Behalf Of Gilles Leblanc > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 6:12 PM > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Adri Varma Plateau > > >I don't remember anything like this in CM1, but it sounds similar to the > >Qauriks from the Creature Catalogue (AC9). > > > >Richard > > DMR2 also has them on page 75, altough they live in cold artic climes. > > "The quauriks live in a domed crystal city within the polar regions." and > "The quaurik city lies in the midst of an icy valley." Leads me to beleive > it is not on the plateau. Looking at any maps from the plateau does not > show > mountains while the text continues with : "... by huge avalanches which > blocked the mountain passes and have since frozen solid." > ________________________________________________________________________ _ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 19:52:42 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: 3e Immortals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "George Hrabovsky" > You are making specific statements about the alignment of a population > without justifying that statement. Why must undead be evil? Who says that > undead must be evil? Why are the NO exceptions? > > You are proceeding from a logical fallacy, just because you do not like a > source of information does not invalidate the argument that it provides a > precedent. If you do not like the example from PC-3, what about GAZ 1 or > KKoA: Anton Sulescu. In KKoA it specifically states that his alignment is > neutral. I would suggest that he was probably of good alignment in life -- so good that his transformation to the undead state could not quite drag him into an evil alignment. >From a Mystaran point of view, the two most noticeable features of any individual's personality would be alignment (on the law/chaos axis) and Sphere -- but only the most knowledgeable and educated can sort out the subtle distinctions among the four non-Entropic spheres. Most people are lucky to be able to sort out the differences between those intent on destruction (Entropy) and those intent on some sort of creative activity (the other four Spheres, usually). >From a Sphere-based philosophy, "Good" would describe somebody who is intent on any sort of creative activity without harming others (an ideal not represented by any current Sphere), while "Evil" would describe somebody whose intentions are purely destructive, with nothing worthwhile being created in place of what is destroyed (a fair description of most if not all Entropics). Most Mystarans would fall somewhere in between, intent on building a legacy that perpetuates what they value and attempting to destroy anyone or anything that threatens to destroy what they are building. I used the above simplification as my basis for a system for assigning 3x3 alignments to Mystaran Immortals. For each Immortal, look up Sphere, alignment on the law/chaos axis, and allowed alignments of clerics and followers and you can get a pretty good idea of which of the nine alignments they should be assigned. 90+% of the results will be non-controversial, with a few significant exceptions (such as the debate about whether Nyx should count as Evil just because she is Entropic -- similarly, I have trouble swallowing the fact that my system would by default make Vanya Neutral Good). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 20:05:46 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: 3e Immortals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "SteelAngel" > > I can see static alignments for other creatures, such as demons or devils, > which are suposed to embody concepts and ideal alignments, but dragons > should have some freedom in their belief systems. Going by their treatment in the Mystaran Monstrous Compendium and generalizing to other creature types, I would tend to give Mystaran creatures more "wiggle room" on the good/evil alignment axis. Thus, for example, the Mystaran gold dragon (described as "always Lawful Good" in the 3E MM) should have its alignment described as "always Lawful, usually Good", while the Mystaran troll (described as "always Chaotic Evil" in the 3E MM) should have its alignment described as "always Chaotic, usually Evil", and the Mystaran gnoll (described as "usually Chaotic Evil" in the 3E MM) should have its alignment described as "usually Chaotic, often Evil". This little tweak puts just enough unpredictability into individual alignments on the good/evil axis to keep everyone on their toes. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 20:15:56 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: 3e Immortals - lets make it easy for ourselves. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Roger WINTER" > > This isn't quite what I meant. What I was trying to say, badly, was that > rather than giving priests of a certain Immortal access to a number of > domains, restrict the choices by the Immortal's sphere, not to be confused > with 2e spheres. That makes a little more sense -- although I think somebody made a good case for giving Thor (an Immortal of Energy) access to the Air domain (which would normally be associated with the Sphere of Thought). Still, domains by Sphere could be a useful first step. > >1) Remove all alignment based domains (as they are highly inappropriate > >for Lawful Immortals of Energy or Chaotic Immortals of Matter, to cite > >two obvious examples). These domains should be available to all > >Immortals of the appropriate alignments regardless of Sphere. > > I disagree. Matter leans towards law, so it should be part of Matter's > portfolio. Applying the PHB rules, a priest of a Chaotic Immortal of Matter > would be Neutral at best, so wouldn't be able to take Law anyway. However, if you look at the PHB, DotF, and the FRCS books, I have yet to find an exception to the rule that a deity grants access to the domain(s) associated with his personal alignment. As near as I can tell, each and every Lawful Good deity grants access to both Law and Good, and so forth. On that basis, a Chaotic Immortal of Matter would have to grant access to the Chaos domain and deny it to the Law domain. > >4) Remove War from Entropy list, as it is shared by two other > >non-Entropic Spheres as a minor domain. > > No I think this one is where it should be. Most of the KW wars have > been inspired by Entropic Immortals. On the other hand, the War domain is more associated with weapon mastery than warfare per se. That domain simply lacks any strong Sphere association on its own and thus for that reason I would argue for making it open to any Immortal associated with any particular single weapon. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 20:32:30 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Gilles Leblanc" > > After all Glantri as already an enemy neighbor ( Ethangar ), humanoid > neighbor ( Broken Lands ) and Commerce partner ( Darokin ). Putting another > hostile nation later on would have made all wonder why they had not been > talked about in the history of Glantri, ect. I was inclined to describe that region as an embarrassing client state of Glantri (as mention is made of the baroness paying an annual tribute of horses to Glantri). Glantrians prefer to keep quiet about them because they don't fit in with Glantri culturally, but they supply horses and keep the barbarians beyond them in check, so Glantrians don't give them a second thought as long as they keep sending the tribute and the Huleans don't invade and conquer them. (Hint for anyone developing that region: Have exactly that happen whenever you want to bring that region to the attention of the Known World.) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 23:43:30 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: 3E Immortal alignments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "ranma" > > > I have trouble swallowing the fact that my system would by > >default make Vanya Neutral Good). > > No it wouldn't. Vanya's followers aren't purely creative without harming > others. Vanya endorses conquest and war for glory's sake. Her followers > don't just annhilate everything, but nor do they create without bringing harm > to others. So Vanya would be True Neutral. You just summarized my problem with assigning Vanya a "Good" alignment. Clearly anyone who indifferently favors war and conquest is at best of non-Good alignment -- but the first cut of my alignment system would have assigned her a "Good" alignment because she is non-Entropic, Neutral, and accepts clerics of any alignment. I would thus use the inherently destructive nature of war and conquest as an argument against allowing her to be of any sort of "Good" alignment. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 22:03:11 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: 3e Immortals In-Reply-To: <025a01c10033$993983e0$a2a61a26@q6s7w2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 17:05 2001/06/28, David Knott wrote: >Going by their treatment in the Mystaran Monstrous Compendium and >generalizing to other creature types, I would tend to give Mystaran >creatures more "wiggle room" on the good/evil alignment axis. Thus, >for example, the Mystaran gold dragon (described as "always Lawful >Good" in the 3E MM) should have its alignment described as "always >Lawful, usually Good", while the Mystaran troll (described as "always >Chaotic Evil" in the 3E MM) should have its alignment described as >"always Chaotic, usually Evil", and the Mystaran gnoll (described as >"usually Chaotic Evil" in the 3E MM) should have its alignment >described as "usually Chaotic, often Evil". This little tweak puts just >enough unpredictability into individual alignments on the good/evil >axis to keep everyone on their toes. I like this approach David. It meshes with the "official" word on the subject while alowing that "wiggle room" you mention. We should remember to include something like this in the M3E project, along with a listing for the "Mystaranized alignments" of the more common Mystaran monsters. Jenni -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry @ jamm . com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 00:19:48 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: James Mishler Subject: War and Conquest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <> Ah, but of course certain apsects of an Immortal of war and conquest can be Good and FOR Good! Inherently destructive does not necessitate inherently non-Good. They don't call it a "+5 Holy Avenger sword" for no reason, you know. Destruction for destruction's own sake, yes, that is evil, but destruction for a purpose, that is something different. Also, not all followers of Vanya emphasize the conquest, and not all emphasize the war aspects. Emphasizing simply the War aspect, there are all sorts of Good ways to interpret that. Is a Paladin Evil simply because he kills Evil beings? Is Death necessarily Evil just because it also takes Good people? No, of course not, in either case. A Paladin brings justice and righteous vengeance upon Evil folks on a one to one scale, as it were. And then, Death, especially at the end of a long and fruitful life, will bring one to one's just spiritual reward. By the same token, War can be a tool for Good as well. So, too, in many ways can Conquest. Without War and Conquest, how can one free the oppressed? Without war and conquest (or, in this case, re-conquest) how would the Western Defense League have been able to throw out Hule? You can bet many folk were praying to Vanya then! Or, to take a cue from our own RW, how would the Allies have defeated the Axis in WWII, without War and Conquest as a tool? Harsh language? War and Conquest are not Evil in and of themselves. They are, like any other tool, only what they are used for. In the case of the Heldannic Knights, in Canon, they are in fact Evil. In the case of Bruce's interpretation, they are simply Neutral (and misguided). What if, instead of conquering the Heldann, they had conquered Denegoth, killed the Necromancer and his followers, and ruled that land? Would they be good or evil for that action (notwithstanding their later actions, as we are debating the natuire of war and conquest, not rulership)? To paint War and Conquest as Evil simply because of modern Western belief systems that have been so heavily altered (corrupted, some might say) by "Peacenik" views, in which no war is considered proper or just, would be a fallacy. For example, today we view the Crusades (and the Islamic conquests that preceded them) as inherently a wrong and evil thing, however, to the philosophy of the period and of the religions of the time, they were "Just Wars," and, in both cases, a required part of their people's religion to bring the Faith unto the faithless. Suggested reading to see both sides of the story (as in Good and Evil, though also in this case, from European and Arabic eyes) are: The Crusades: Iron Men and Saints, by Harold Lamb The Crusades through Arab Eyes, by Amin Maalouf And for a good view of ADVENTURE to be had in the midst of war, read: The Sowers of the Thunder, by Robert E. Howard Note that in this case, the Crusades are painted as Good by Europeans and Evil by Muslims. It could just as easily be interpreted the other way around, six hundred years earlier, when the Muslims conquered the region from the natives and the Byzantines! In Maalouf's terms, their invasion could be interpreted as "a brutal, destructive, unprovoked invasion by barbarian hordes." As Howard or Ibn Khaldun would say, "such is the cycle of history," and thus, in the wash, it is all neutral, but each side acts of and by Good through their own actions. Back to the game at hand, though, taking the philosophy on War that you do, how do you then view any martial action taken by characters as Good? If War is Evil, by this train of thought, then so is Battle, and all forms of killing. What would your adventurers do, then, if they went to the Caves of Chaos? Hand out flowers and ask the natives to be nice? Any martial action (read = slaughter by character types) against the beings there would be nothing less than a small crusade, or war, even though on a man to man rather than nation to nation scale. And even if the beings are ostensibly evil, if any form of war or conquest is evil, therefore... Anyway, those are my thoughts... James Mishler ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message.