========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 01:53:23 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: pds3 Subject: Re: Andri Varma Plateau MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT >CoM mentions that part of the inondations of Graakhalia and Sind come from >Snow melting on the black mountains and from rivers from the Adri Varma >plateau. I think the fact they are polluted is because they carry lots of >small dirt and debris with them. Altough this could be used to create a >polluting civilization on the plateau. Altough why no one has heard of them >if they are so close to Glantri and Sind is a mystery I plan on writing >something on the plateau. The specific adjectives used to describe the River Devaki as it "hurtles" off the Adri Varma are "black," "foul," and "dark." To me this implies something worse than simple erosion unless there's something pretty fetid up there to erode. Perhaps Blackmoor's old toxic waste dump or the drainage from that magical swamp described in the orange B-3? The references from CoM specifically give us this campaign hook, so it seems a shame to throw away one of the few facts known about the plateau as simply caused by natural sediments in the river. >BTW excuse my poor english skills but what is a saguaros anyway ? The Saguaro is the largest cactus, native to the Sonoran desert along the USA-Mexico border. It thrives in the sunny, hot, dry climate, clustering in much of its natural habitat on south-facing slopes. The map in WotI shows saguaros on the Adri Varma. Since it seems highly unlikely that RW saguaros could survive there, much less thrive, Bruce Heard suggested they could be some sort of intelligent being that somehow drains the body heat from animals to sustain itself. For those describing the Adri Varma: keep in mind that the climate should be significantly cooler than what some seem to be suggesting. The monsoon influences at least parts of the plateau (this should keep summertime temperatures from getting terribly high) and the information from PC4 tells us that the base of the cliff must be at the very least 6,000 feet above sea level. So even if the top of the plateau isn't much higher than the bottom, we're talking about a climate that's probably more similar to Tibet than to the Gobi. Patrick ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 11:29:02 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Qauriks (was Adri Varma Plateau) Christopher Cherrington wrote: > That is whom I was talking about. They are located in a snowed in > valley in the IceReach Mountains, west of Norwold. Too far north for > the plateau. Did you place them there yourself, or did this come from some official product? It's not from AC9: Creature Catalogue either (it just places them in a domed crystal city in an icy valley in the polar regions), and I have never seen the Qauriks used in an official adventure or product, so I'm quite curious. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 11:42:42 CEST Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Giulio Caroletti Subject: Adri Varma Project Organization I MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Uhm...I was thinking that perhaps we could discuss the ideas on the list, to ask people for feedback etc., while those more "involved" could develope the ideas to put them on Shawn's later. I mean, while we are discussing here, the more enthusiastic (I think me, Chris and Bleak Cabal) should work both on the list and on personal mail. There is no need to create another e-group, because I think that mainly we three are the most interested. But if it's ok for those of the list, I would discuss all ideas here while we are working on them. Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 11:46:01 CEST Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Giulio Caroletti Subject: Rif: [MYSTARA] Listserv being slow MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It goes quite randomly for me. Sometimes 1 minute, sometimes 30. Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 07:29:36 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Qauriks (was Adri Varma Plateau) In-Reply-To: <200106290929.LAA73347@predator.mobilixnet.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My very first DM used them in an adventure, about 8 years before AC9, or 6 years before CM1; their was no Norwold, and I don't know how he got the idea for them, most likely from a 'B' movie. Anyway, when I started Dming, and in 1984 I bought CM1, I saw the maps inside and always placed them there west of Icereach. Many years later, I bought a map of the Northern areas, don't remember where I got it from, maybe the DotE?, anyways there is a plateau or glacier just west of Icereach, in the middle of the mountains. Call me psychic, or my first DM was, but since I have always put them up their, and from his descriptions, it was a perfect fit. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] On > Behalf Of Jacob Skytte > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 5:29 AM > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Qauriks (was Adri Varma Plateau) > > Christopher Cherrington wrote: > > > > That is whom I was talking about. They are located in a snowed in > > valley in the IceReach Mountains, west of Norwold. Too far north for > > the plateau. > > Did you place them there yourself, or did this come from some official > product? It's not from AC9: Creature Catalogue either (it just places them > in a domed crystal city in an icy valley in the polar regions), and I have > never seen the Qauriks used in an official adventure or product, so I'm > quite curious. > > Jacob Skytte > scythe@wanadoo.dk > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 08:55:51 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Qauriks (was Adri Varma Plateau) In-Reply-To: <000001c1008e$c784a6c0$1ec11542@host> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Christopher Cherrington wrote: > My very first DM used them in an adventure, about 8 years before AC9, or > 6 years before CM1; their was no Norwold, and I don't know how he got That's odd. The only mention of Quariks in any D&D product i know is in AC9 or the challenger edition of the creature catalogue. You must have had a really future looking DM.. I've always placed the Quariks in Hyborea, only bcause that's up at the top of the world, and a domed city of fire mages seems logical. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:54:15 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Qauriks (was Adri Varma Plateau) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: SteelAngel [mailto:edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU] > > You must have had a really future looking DM.. > > I've always placed the Quariks in Hyborea, only bcause that's > up at the > top of the world, and a domed city of fire mages seems logical. > The top of the world would mean no magic, or you are in a big hole ;) Plus the description was for a place that was snowed in or blocked off by avalanche, so I am thinking mountains. We used to play Chainmail, maybe the Quariks are first mentioned in one of TSR's very first publications for Chainmail? Or my DM ended up working for TSR after we moved from Hawaii. Finding a logical place for them, then giving them a history of their own would be a good idea too. There are already allot of stories of Fire Mages, the Flaems, Honor Island, et. Maybe we should update the plot a little, were the Quariks originally from Ancient Alphatia as Fire Worshippers? Or did a group of Flaems try to help settle Norwold for the Thyatians (AC 2), and got trapped in a mountain valley trying to get there? (and if they did get there, could they have had the magic power to stop Alphatia from sending in the reavers?) Would the Quariks be actual mages from the Blackmoor era, using ancient Blackmoor devices, and not really Fire Mages at all? The descriptions of these lost humans would indicate that they evolved to survive their habitat. That would not be long enough to be from Alphatian origins. But if they were of Blackmoor, that would give them 4000 years to evolve and adapt to their environment. Unless of course they really were from Alphatia, 2000 years before Alphatia Landfall, and the Alphatians or Flaemish of today followed their legendary migration to find this world; no mention of them would be in their history as they were never discovered so it was an obvious folk tale, and Alphatians would not want to be known for coming to Mystara based on a kid's bedtime story. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 08:12:37 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Amazonians? Comments: To: MYSTARA-L@.WIZARDS.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Are there any amazon or Maztica like cultures on Mystara? and if so, = where? thanks. JK Wolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 11:33:39 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Amazonians? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Maztica like cultures can be found in the jungles west of Tenobar, Darokin. They are called the Tiger Clan and found below the plateau of Autrughin. A much larger and more Aztec/Myan like cultures exist in the Hollow World as the Azcan and Oltec. Also, north of the Savage Coast are several ancient step pyramids, like ruined Aztec-like temples et. > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Kelly [mailto:joe_kelly@DAVIS.CA] > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 11:13 AM > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: [MYSTARA] Amazonians? > > > Are there any amazon or Maztica like cultures on Mystara? and > if so, where? thanks. > > JK Wolf > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 10:38:18 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: ramhog Subject: Re: Amazonians? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Are there any amazon or Maztica like cultures on Mystara? and if so, >where? thanks. > The Azcan Empire in the Hollow World. I'm just guess from the names, but I think that's a match. VVH -- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:03:48 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Amazonians? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" You could make an Amazonian type culture from the Jennites, east of Bellesaria. I don't believe their is any cannon material on this particular culture. But if they modeled the Jennites on Scythian culture, I could see no reason to add a tribe that went Amazonian over there. I would place them away from the Jennites in general, but north of the Mineans. > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Kelly [mailto:joe_kelly@DAVIS.CA] > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 11:13 AM > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: [MYSTARA] Amazonians? > > > Are there any amazon or Maztica like cultures on Mystara? and > if so, where? thanks. > > JK Wolf > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:16:14 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Vanya MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >From the Master series of adventures, Vanya was more of sponsor of neutral competition than an evil or good immortal of war. She only gave her favor for conquerors in combat. That is pretty flip-floppy to me. One day your the hero, and Vanya is happy; the next day you lose a tourney to Ludwig, and Vanya drops you for Ludwig. I believe they changed her interests to war as the ultimate competition in battle. She is still very fickle, Patroness of War & Conquerors, but you have to keep winning or you lose her favor. Her alignment is listed as Neutral, but she only sides with the people already winning, that would be more a CN (self interested). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:23:39 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Adri Varma Project Organization I In-Reply-To: <20010629094242.CSVZ16638.fep33-svc.tin.it@[127.0.0.1]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit My impression is that alot of groups tend to die when they are removed from the list. I have followed these discussions with interest although I havent participated much, and i'm sure others have too. By all means keep discussing this topic on list :) Havard --- Giulio Caroletti skrev: > Uhm...I was thinking that perhaps we could discuss > the > ideas on the list, to ask people for feedback etc., > while > those more "involved" could develope the ideas to > put > them on Shawn's later. I mean, while we are > discussing > here, the more enthusiastic (I think me, Chris and > Bleak > Cabal) should work both on the list and on personal > mail. > There is no need to create another e-group, because > I > think that mainly we three are the most interested. > But > if it's ok for those of the list, I would discuss > all > ideas here while we are working on them. > > Iulius Sergius Scaevola > Captain of the XXth Cohort > Port Lucinius, Thyatis > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:28:11 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Amazonians? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Joe Kelly skrev: > Are there any amazon or Maztica like cultures on > Mystara? and if so, where? thanks. On the southern continent, Davania, there is a region called the Matriarchy of Pelatan. It has been suggested that this is a culture of Amazons, although AFAIK the culture has not been further developed. Haavard PS: Are the MAztica products any good? Weren't they available as free downloads somewhere? ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:35:59 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: War and Conquest In-Reply-To: <001101c1005b$1f7b9020$92da67d1@jmishler> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This discussion is already flawed. 20th Century morality, the concepts of good and evil, and the alignment system can hardly be unified. To me, this is a question of genre. In the fantasy genre, violence is not neccesarily evil. Neither is conquest or destruction. IMO you don't have to agree with any of this in real life, but questioning the morality of such actions within the game is actually moving away from the genre. 1. Evil exists 2. The destruction of evil is good. 3. Battles are glorious and honorable activities (=good) 3. Feudalism with a good King is the best possible political system. In real life, I dont agree with any of the above, but as I see it these are fundamentals in the fantasy genre. Haavard PS: Good to see you back with us, James! --- James Mishler skrev: > < of war and conquest as > an argument against allowing her to be of any sort > of "Good" alignment.>> > > Ah, but of course certain apsects of an Immortal of > war and conquest can be > Good and FOR Good! Inherently destructive does not > necessitate inherently > non-Good. They don't call it a "+5 Holy Avenger > sword" for no reason, you > know. Destruction for destruction's own sake, yes, > that is evil, but > destruction for a purpose, that is something > different. > > Also, not all followers of Vanya emphasize the > conquest, and not all > emphasize the war aspects. Emphasizing simply the > War aspect, there are all > sorts of Good ways to interpret that. Is a Paladin > Evil simply because he > kills Evil beings? Is Death necessarily Evil just > because it also takes Good > people? No, of course not, in either case. A Paladin > brings justice and > righteous vengeance upon Evil folks on a one to one > scale, as it were. And > then, Death, especially at the end of a long and > fruitful life, will bring > one to one's just spiritual reward. > > By the same token, War can be a tool for Good as > well. So, too, in many ways > can Conquest. Without War and Conquest, how can one > free the oppressed? > Without war and conquest (or, in this case, > re-conquest) how would the > Western Defense League have been able to throw out > Hule? You can bet many > folk were praying to Vanya then! Or, to take a cue > from our own RW, how > would the Allies have defeated the Axis in WWII, > without War and Conquest as > a tool? Harsh language? > > War and Conquest are not Evil in and of themselves. > They are, like any other > tool, only what they are used for. In the case of > the Heldannic Knights, in > Canon, they are in fact Evil. In the case of Bruce's > interpretation, they > are simply Neutral (and misguided). What if, instead > of conquering the > Heldann, they had conquered Denegoth, killed the > Necromancer and his > followers, and ruled that land? Would they be good > or evil for that action > (notwithstanding their later actions, as we are > debating the natuire of war > and conquest, not rulership)? > > To paint War and Conquest as Evil simply because of > modern Western belief > systems that have been so heavily altered > (corrupted, some might say) by > "Peacenik" views, in which no war is considered > proper or just, would be a > fallacy. For example, today we view the Crusades > (and the Islamic conquests > that preceded them) as inherently a wrong and evil > thing, however, to the > philosophy of the period and of the religions of the > time, they were "Just > Wars," and, in both cases, a required part of their > people's religion to > bring the Faith unto the faithless. Suggested > reading to see both sides of > the story (as in Good and Evil, though also in this > case, from European and > Arabic eyes) are: > > The Crusades: Iron Men and Saints, by Harold Lamb > The Crusades through Arab Eyes, by Amin Maalouf > > And for a good view of ADVENTURE to be had in the > midst of war, read: > > The Sowers of the Thunder, by Robert E. Howard > > Note that in this case, the Crusades are painted as > Good by Europeans and > Evil by Muslims. It could just as easily be > interpreted the other way > around, six hundred years earlier, when the Muslims > conquered the region > from the natives and the Byzantines! In Maalouf's > terms, their invasion > could be interpreted as "a brutal, destructive, > unprovoked invasion by > barbarian hordes." As Howard or Ibn Khaldun would > say, "such is the cycle of > history," and thus, in the wash, it is all neutral, > but each side acts of > and by Good through their own actions. > > Back to the game at hand, though, taking the > philosophy on War that you do, > how do you then view any martial action taken by > characters as Good? If War > is Evil, by this train of thought, then so is > Battle, and all forms of > killing. What would your adventurers do, then, if > they went to the Caves of > Chaos? Hand out flowers and ask the natives to be > nice? Any martial action > (read = slaughter by character types) against the > beings there would be > nothing less than a small crusade, or war, even > though on a man to man > rather than nation to nation scale. And even if the > beings are ostensibly > evil, if any form of war or conquest is evil, > therefore... > > Anyway, those are my thoughts... > > James Mishler > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:56:26 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Amazonians? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, I am not using the Maztica set per se, what I am doing is I have = found yet another couple of REALM NEWS archives, which I can easiliy = convert over to my Mystara Campaign for news items (anything that makes my = job as a DM easier!) If anyone is interested I will post the addy's. :) regards, JK Wolf >>> havardfaa@YAHOO.NO 06/29/01 09:28AM >>> --- Joe Kelly skrev: > Are there any amazon or Maztica like cultures on > Mystara? and if so, where? thanks. On the southern continent, Davania, there is a region called the Matriarchy of Pelatan. It has been suggested that this is a culture of Amazons, although AFAIK the culture has not been further developed. Haavard PS: Are the MAztica products any good? Weren't they available as free downloads somewhere? ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p=E5 http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:58:55 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Adri Varma Project Organization I MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Let's break up the work... We have one idea of a culture, the Mystaran Kirgs We have one idea on nomadic demi-orcs A bad area, between Glantri and the civilization An Azcan lich in that bad area A Baroness that pays tribute to Glantri in horses Several mad-wizards roaming the southern end of the plateau (could one of them be this Baroness?) Darokin merchants with an interest in buying/selling from the plateau to Sind (Could this be a better route to Wendar, than Ethengar or Heldann or Glantri?) Cacti-men and Sand People Polluted rivers (should the lich be involved, move the bad area towards the Sindhi border, or make it a larger area) Ancient Blackmoor or Azcan ruins (the two civilizations grew up at the same time, side by side, but they never knew of each other; so it has to be one or the other, and not both) The civilization(s) on the plateau should be rather new and recent, like the Savage Coast. This would explain why nobody has had contact with them in their histories. Or any other good reason as to their secrecy, like a bad area as a separator. Any other ideas? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 13:48:36 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Adri Varma Project Organization I MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" With the Azcan lich idea, I was thinking along this line... He would have started his lichdom at 21st level (I have never seen a Mystaran lich at under 20th level) I also have never seen a clerical lich, so let's make him a cleric to keep away from all those Nithian Mage lich types. He would have survived as a lich for awhile before Blackmoor went boom, so he would have been active and gained another 4-6 levels as a cleric. Now here comes the hard part, while he was trapped inside his artifact for the past 4000+ years, he was still influencing the world in dreams. Now would he have gained level, or just gained more powers? I would like him pretty powerful, so he could be the climax of a long term campaign of saving the world; and if others don't like it, keep him bottled up in his artifact with only enough power to influence by dreams. If he gained in power, and not level, we could give him some of the other abilities of other powerful undead; like the poison effect of a Night Stalker or the Poltergeist gate effect (except it will bring characters to the Dimension of Nightmares). Maybe give him a couple of the circles from the Secret Crafts like Necromancy & Illusion. I always like to surprise characters with different abilities for the same creature types. By all means, this should not encompass all of the plateau, his area of influence should be a small area, this will leave plenty of room for all the other great ideas. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 19:07:47 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Caroletti Subject: Re: Adri Varma Project Organization I MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Havard Faanes wrote: > My impression is that alot of groups tend to die when > they are removed from the list. I have followed these > discussions with interest although I havent > participated much, and i'm sure others have too. By > all means keep discussing this topic on list :) I agree wholeheartely. But I think that we should follow both paths. Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 19:59:00 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Amazonians? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Joe Kelly wrote: > > Are there any amazon or Maztica like cultures on Mystara? and if so, where? thanks. As others have said, the Atruaghin Clans are a near match for a Maztica like culture, especially the Bear and Tiger clans. The others are too North-American in flavor. On the Savage Coast, the Oltec civilization had already crumbled when the Ispans arrived, so the comparison is weaker. Torre�n has still a large Oltec population, though. Also, the Tortle people are said to have plumaweavers, which are a link to Maztica. Myself, I'm going to set either Endless Armies or The City of Gold (or both) somewhere to the north-west of the Savage Baronies. If you want a very close match, you'll have to create it by having some "conquistadores" invade either the Azcan/Oltecs in the HW (you could use the HK or the Alphatians), or the Atruaghin Clans (replacing the 5 Alphatian wizards from the almanacs with a stranded Alphatian unit could go, or you could have Darokin invade the Plateau). Finally, you may note that many goblinoids, both along the Savage Coast and in the Broken lands (Red Orkia, Oenkmar), have a culture similar to either the Atruaghin Clans or the Azcans/Oltecs. As to Amazons, I don't think there is any canon Amazon culture, though the Matriarchy of Pelatan could apply. IIRC, Francesco did some work on Pelatan on the old MMB. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 20:27:47 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Amazonians? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Havard Faanes wrote: > > PS: Are the MAztica products any good? Better than the average FR stuff you can get for free. You will have to trash most of the races, though, for it seems that all FR sub-settings are cursed to have all of the core races as prevalent as possible (so you get savage dwarves and halflings in Maztica, and arabian dwarves/elves/etc. in Al Qadim). That point removed, both sub-setting are quite good and very adaptable to Mystara. > Weren't they > available as free downloads somewhere? Yes, all of them (ok, they are only four), from the WotC classics download page. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:04:42 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Amazonians? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks everyone, I think I will go with the north west of the savage = Baronies idea. My party can't bend their minds around a hollow world, = especially when much of the Surface of Mystara is still unmapped and = unexplored. As one of them said this about the HW campaign stuff; "I thought this was fantasy not Sci-Fi." So in agreeing with that I have just moved most of the HW stuff to the = Southern Hemisphere where the group will not likely venture anyways.=20 I guess from now on I should be more specific, but I really didn't know = how. The REAL reason I said Amazons/Maztica is cause I wanted to mention = how the Nobles of Port Siers/The rock of Bral/Freeport/ were crazy about = some exotic bird feathers from Maztica, so my assumption was a jungle = region, ie Maztica/Amazon. I didn't know how else to put it. So thanks for = bearing with me :) cheers! JK Wolf >>> agathokles@LIBERO.IT 06/29/01 10:59AM >>> Joe Kelly wrote: > > Are there any amazon or Maztica like cultures on Mystara? and if so, = where? thanks. As others have said, the Atruaghin Clans are a near match for a Maztica like culture, especially the Bear and Tiger clans. The others are too North-American in flavor. On the Savage Coast, the Oltec civilization had already crumbled when the Ispans arrived, so the comparison is weaker. Torre=F3n has still a large Oltec population, though. Also, the Tortle people are said to have plumaweavers, which are a link to Maztica. Myself, I'm going to set either Endless Armies or The City of Gold (or both) somewhere to the north-west of the Savage Baronies. If you want a very close match, you'll have to create it by having some "conquistadores" invade either the Azcan/Oltecs in the HW (you could use the HK or the Alphatians), or the Atruaghin Clans (replacing the 5 Alphatian wizards from the almanacs with a stranded Alphatian unit could go, or you could have Darokin invade the Plateau). Finally, you may note that many goblinoids, both along the Savage Coast and in the Broken lands (Red Orkia, Oenkmar), have a culture similar to either the Atruaghin Clans or the Azcans/Oltecs. As to Amazons, I don't think there is any canon Amazon culture, though the Matriarchy of Pelatan could apply. IIRC, Francesco did some work on Pelatan on the old MMB. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 22:00:47 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Qauriks (was Adri Varma Plateau) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed It seems to me from reading the description that the Quauriks are humans but not spellcasters, while the Firelords their spellcasting leaders aren't quite human in the same sense as you and me. > > -----Original Message----- > > From: SteelAngel [mailto:edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU] > > > > You must have had a really future looking DM.. > > > > I've always placed the Quariks in Hyborea, only bcause that's > > up at the > > top of the world, and a domed city of fire mages seems logical. > > >The top of the world would mean no magic, or you are in a big hole ;) >Plus the description was for a place that was snowed in or blocked off by >avalanche, so I am thinking mountains. We used to play Chainmail, maybe >the >Quariks are first mentioned in one of TSR's very first publications for >Chainmail? Or my DM ended up working for TSR after we moved from Hawaii. >Finding a logical place for them, then giving them a history of their own >would be a good idea too. There are already allot of stories of Fire >Mages, >the Flaems, Honor Island, et. Maybe we should update the plot a little, >were the Quariks originally from Ancient Alphatia as Fire Worshippers? Or >did a group of Flaems try to help settle Norwold for the Thyatians (AC 2), >and got trapped in a mountain valley trying to get there? (and if they did >get there, could they have had the magic power to stop Alphatia from >sending >in the reavers?) Would the Quariks be actual mages from the Blackmoor era, >using ancient Blackmoor devices, and not really Fire Mages at all? The >descriptions of these lost humans would indicate that they evolved to >survive their habitat. That would not be long enough to be from Alphatian >origins. But if they were of Blackmoor, that would give them 4000 years to >evolve and adapt to their environment. Unless of course they really were >from Alphatia, 2000 years before Alphatia Landfall, and the Alphatians or >Flaemish of today followed their legendary migration to find this world; no >mention of them would be in their history as they were never discovered so >it was an obvious folk tale, and Alphatians would not want to be known for >coming to Mystara based on a kid's bedtime story. > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 22:14:40 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Adri Varma Project Organization I Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed There's also a polluting civilizations, failed glantri experiments. When I first wanted to do this I also wanted to create some stuff of my own. I could always place my creations farther away. >Let's break up the work... >We have one idea of a culture, the Mystaran Kirgs >We have one idea on nomadic demi-orcs >A bad area, between Glantri and the civilization >An Azcan lich in that bad area >A Baroness that pays tribute to Glantri in horses >Several mad-wizards roaming the southern end of the plateau (could one of >them be this Baroness?) >Darokin merchants with an interest in buying/selling from the plateau to >Sind (Could this be a better route to Wendar, than Ethengar or Heldann or >Glantri?) >Cacti-men and Sand People >Polluted rivers (should the lich be involved, move the bad area towards the >Sindhi border, or make it a larger area) >Ancient Blackmoor or Azcan ruins (the two civilizations grew up at the same >time, side by side, but they never knew of each other; so it has to be one >or the other, and not both) > >The civilization(s) on the plateau should be rather new and recent, like >the >Savage Coast. This would explain why nobody has had contact with them in >their histories. Or any other good reason as to their secrecy, like a bad >area as a separator. > >Any other ideas? > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 00:49:35 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Caroletti Subject: Re: Adri Varma Project Organization I MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The civilization(s) on the plateau should be rather new and recent, like the > Savage Coast. This would explain why nobody has had contact with them in > their histories. Or any other good reason as to their secrecy, like a bad > area as a separator. I prefer this second. Or, more precisely: 1) Gulluvia near Glantri. Only area known to Darokin (they have some commerce with them, and they are on an alternate route to Wendar). 2) After Gulluvia, a semi-desertic region with Cacti-Men. Glantrians know that some weird experiments were put there. Possibly weird mages roam this region. ISS ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 00:13:01 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Phillip Jones Subject: Re: Adri Varma Project Organization I MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Cacti-men and Sand People > Polluted rivers (should the lich be involved, move the bad area towards the > Sindhi border, or make it a larger area) > Ancient Blackmoor or Azcan ruins (the two civilizations grew up at the same > time, side by side, but they never knew of each other; so it has to be one > or the other, and not both) This is an idea I've had to tie together several of the ideas you have for the Adri Varma plateau (above) together. Here goes :) IMHO you'd have to go with ancient Blackmoor ruins, as that would be more technologically advanced than an Azcan equivelent, and thus cause more pollution. However, the lich would then have to be changed from an Azcan Lich to a Blackmoor Lich, (which would fit better into my musings). If it was a Blackmoor Lich, it could have used a combination of toxic pollutants to achieve lichdom in the first place, and must now regularly immerse itself in those same toxins to stop itself from degenerating any further. Can you imagine ancient Blackmoor "factories" manned by zombies to create these chemicals that the lich needs to keep itself alive? Now that would be a sight to see. :) Of course, a side effect of these "factories" operating would be waste chemicals being pumped into the rivers thus heavily polluting them. A byproduct of this pollution could have been the mutation of normal cactii further on downstream to create the Cacti-Men, now a nomadic race that roams the plateau (and as they have no settlements as such, a very elusive race too), and are the natural enemies of the other nomadic race of the plateau - the demi-orcs. Just some of my ramblings to mull over :) Phil (aka Alexander Korrigan, humble student of the Great School of Magic) I'm not evil - just practical. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 23:53:08 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Adri Varma Plateau Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed So what climates do we use, altough I like the idea of Gobi desert climate better, someone pointed out climate would be more akin to Tibet. But there are cacti on the map... We could ignore cacti or rule that for some freak reason climate is warmer, but since the region is pretty large I don't know how we could justify this... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 23:59:34 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Adri Varma Project Organization I Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >IMHO you'd have to go with ancient Blackmoor ruins, as that would be more >technologically advanced than an Azcan equivelent, and thus cause more >pollution. However, the lich would then have to be changed from an Azcan >Lich to a Blackmoor Lich, (which would fit better into my musings). If it >was a Blackmoor Lich, it could have used a combination of toxic pollutants >to achieve lichdom in the first place, and must now regularly immerse >itself >in those same toxins to stop itself from degenerating any further. Can you >imagine ancient Blackmoor "factories" manned by zombies to create these >chemicals that the lich needs to keep itself alive? Now that would be a >sight to see. :) Of course, a side effect of these "factories" operating >would be waste chemicals being pumped into the rivers thus heavily >polluting >them. A byproduct of this pollution could have been the mutation of normal >cactii further on downstream to create the Cacti-Men, now a nomadic race >that roams the plateau (and as they have no settlements as such, a very >elusive race too), and are the natural enemies of the other nomadic race of >the plateau - the demi-orcs. > I don't think they were refering to this kind of pollution, that doesn't seem to fit very well in a fantasy campaign. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 00:13:45 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I think Im begining to see the reason why project needs small groups... We have so many ideas going around, some want a Nithian Lich, others an Azcan lich and still others a Blackmoor lich. Some talk about poeple from module Palace of the Silver Princess, other talk about Kirg like culture, other about demi-orc race, others about polluting civilization, others have suggested Quauriks not to mention the cacti-men. Also is what is causing pollution. Here we have polluting civ, azcan pyramid and dark magic, blackmoor factory and probably more which I have forgot. I am sure I have missed some. Poeple do not agree on climate also. All of these things are fine execpt they bring up 2 nasty things : 1: some of these contradic themselves ( climates, lich type ) 2: others could all be put in somewhere ( all cultures ) but then it would take so much work, instead of describing 1 or 2 culture you would be describing 6, 7 cultures which is too much work to do. While we would all like to say we would do the work for everything, we all know down the way with that much work things will slow down and die down. So I currently don't know what to do. While everyone will probably use their own ideas ( if ever ) their campaigns it would be nice to have a "net-official" version on the vaults, but then who will do it ? Anyway, im more of the go along type. I have no idea putting back my own ideas which I didnt submit yet and help the main project which seems to have taken a life of it's own... It's surprising that no one detailed an area so closed to the known world. Other ideas Ive had, if we use cold climes but a tibetan civilization up there, or put some demi-human/humanoid culture different from the KW counterpart which would be semi-nomadic desert survivors who few resources. For the polluting race my ideas was another race, maybe earth elemental like, maybe not which "produced" something which got in the water polluting it, like we loose hair and some skin which then finds itself into house dust. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 20:44:05 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > -----Original Message----- > From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] On > Behalf Of Gilles Leblanc > So what climates do we use, altough I like the idea of Gobi desert climate > better, someone pointed out climate would be more akin to Tibet. But there > are cacti on the map... > > We could ignore cacti or rule that for some freak reason climate is > warmer, > but since the region is pretty large I don't know how we could justify > this... > ________________________________________________________________________ _ The Gobi has extremes in weather, at least the southeastern end (the desert part). It gets blazing hot during the day with very little shade, and freezing cold at night, with nothing to block the winds. With the earlier ideas of tremors and such, the area can be unbearably hot from geothermic activity, thus explaining the cacti-men staying is this area and not moving on to the Plain of Fire. With the plateau rising 6000 feet up, that makes the air pretty thin (but still very livable) it will however make any heat escape quickly, leaving the cacti-men sapping trapped heat from any animals or unlucky adventurers. Making the southern end of the plateau as an extremely hostile place by previous methods, and making the Sindhi border the area of the lich, would help explain allot of why not much is known about this area of the Known World. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 21:10:18 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: War and Conquest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You don't agree with ANY of the above? I'm sure you don't mean number 2... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Havard Faanes" To: Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 12:35 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] War and Conquest > This discussion is already flawed. 20th Century > morality, the concepts of good and evil, and the > alignment system can hardly be unified. > > To me, this is a question of genre. In the fantasy > genre, violence is not neccesarily evil. Neither is > conquest or destruction. IMO you don't have to agree > with any of this in real life, but questioning the > morality of such actions within the game is actually > moving away from the genre. > > 1. Evil exists > 2. The destruction of evil is good. > 3. Battles are glorious and honorable activities > (=good) > 3. Feudalism with a good King is the best possible > political system. > > In real life, I dont agree with any of the above, but > as I see it these are fundamentals in the fantasy > genre. > > Haavard > > PS: Good to see you back with us, James! > > > --- James Mishler skrev: > < would thus use the inherently destructive nature > > of war and conquest as > > an argument against allowing her to be of any sort > > of "Good" alignment.>> > > > > Ah, but of course certain apsects of an Immortal of > > war and conquest can be > > Good and FOR Good! Inherently destructive does not > > necessitate inherently > > non-Good. They don't call it a "+5 Holy Avenger > > sword" for no reason, you > > know. Destruction for destruction's own sake, yes, > > that is evil, but > > destruction for a purpose, that is something > > different. > > > > Also, not all followers of Vanya emphasize the > > conquest, and not all > > emphasize the war aspects. Emphasizing simply the > > War aspect, there are all > > sorts of Good ways to interpret that. Is a Paladin > > Evil simply because he > > kills Evil beings? Is Death necessarily Evil just > > because it also takes Good > > people? No, of course not, in either case. A Paladin > > brings justice and > > righteous vengeance upon Evil folks on a one to one > > scale, as it were. And > > then, Death, especially at the end of a long and > > fruitful life, will bring > > one to one's just spiritual reward. > > > > By the same token, War can be a tool for Good as > > well. So, too, in many ways > > can Conquest. Without War and Conquest, how can one > > free the oppressed? > > Without war and conquest (or, in this case, > > re-conquest) how would the > > Western Defense League have been able to throw out > > Hule? You can bet many > > folk were praying to Vanya then! Or, to take a cue > > from our own RW, how > > would the Allies have defeated the Axis in WWII, > > without War and Conquest as > > a tool? Harsh language? > > > > War and Conquest are not Evil in and of themselves. > > They are, like any other > > tool, only what they are used for. In the case of > > the Heldannic Knights, in > > Canon, they are in fact Evil. In the case of Bruce's > > interpretation, they > > are simply Neutral (and misguided). What if, instead > > of conquering the > > Heldann, they had conquered Denegoth, killed the > > Necromancer and his > > followers, and ruled that land? Would they be good > > or evil for that action > > (notwithstanding their later actions, as we are > > debating the natuire of war > > and conquest, not rulership)? > > > > To paint War and Conquest as Evil simply because of > > modern Western belief > > systems that have been so heavily altered > > (corrupted, some might say) by > > "Peacenik" views, in which no war is considered > > proper or just, would be a > > fallacy. For example, today we view the Crusades > > (and the Islamic conquests > > that preceded them) as inherently a wrong and evil > > thing, however, to the > > philosophy of the period and of the religions of the > > time, they were "Just > > Wars," and, in both cases, a required part of their > > people's religion to > > bring the Faith unto the faithless. Suggested > > reading to see both sides of > > the story (as in Good and Evil, though also in this > > case, from European and > > Arabic eyes) are: > > > > The Crusades: Iron Men and Saints, by Harold Lamb > > The Crusades through Arab Eyes, by Amin Maalouf > > > > And for a good view of ADVENTURE to be had in the > > midst of war, read: > > > > The Sowers of the Thunder, by Robert E. Howard > > > > Note that in this case, the Crusades are painted as > > Good by Europeans and > > Evil by Muslims. It could just as easily be > > interpreted the other way > > around, six hundred years earlier, when the Muslims > > conquered the region > > from the natives and the Byzantines! In Maalouf's > > terms, their invasion > > could be interpreted as "a brutal, destructive, > > unprovoked invasion by > > barbarian hordes." As Howard or Ibn Khaldun would > > say, "such is the cycle of > > history," and thus, in the wash, it is all neutral, > > but each side acts of > > and by Good through their own actions. > > > > Back to the game at hand, though, taking the > > philosophy on War that you do, > > how do you then view any martial action taken by > > characters as Good? If War > > is Evil, by this train of thought, then so is > > Battle, and all forms of > > killing. What would your adventurers do, then, if > > they went to the Caves of > > Chaos? Hand out flowers and ask the natives to be > > nice? Any martial action > > (read = slaughter by character types) against the > > beings there would be > > nothing less than a small crusade, or war, even > > though on a man to man > > rather than nation to nation scale. And even if the > > beings are ostensibly > > evil, if any form of war or conquest is evil, > > therefore... > > > > Anyway, those are my thoughts... > > > > James Mishler > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: > > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > To unsubscribe, send email to > > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 21:05:01 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > -----Original Message----- > From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] On > Behalf Of Gilles Leblanc > > All of these things are fine execpt they bring up 2 nasty things : > > 1: some of these contradic themselves ( climates, lich type ) > > 2: others could all be put in somewhere ( all cultures ) but then it would > take so much work, instead of describing 1 or 2 culture you would be > describing 6, 7 cultures which is too much work to do. > > While we would all like to say we would do the work for everything, we all > know down the way with that much work things will slow down and die down. > > So I currently don't know what to do. While everyone will probably use > their > own ideas ( if ever ) their campaigns it would be nice to have a > "net-official" version on the vaults, but then who will do it ? Anyway, im > more of the go along type. I have no idea putting back my own ideas which > I > didnt submit yet and help the main project which seems to have taken a > life > of it's own... > > It's surprising that no one detailed an area so closed to the known world. > Other ideas Ive had, if we use cold climes but a tibetan civilization up > there, or put some demi-human/humanoid culture different from the KW > counterpart which would be semi-nomadic desert survivors who few > resources. > > For the polluting race my ideas was another race, maybe earth elemental > like, maybe not which "produced" something which got in the water > polluting > it, like we loose hair and some skin which then finds itself into house > dust. > ________________________________________________________________________ _ Let me combine a couple of elements together, this will make it easier. I can work on the Azcan lich (I already have a lich in this area IMC). The Kirgs could be combined as the nomadic demi-orcs, I mentioned both of these also, so I can take a crack at fleshing them into reality also. I don't have a copy of the Orange Silver Princess, one of the few items I don't have. I mentioned the Quariks also, but quickly realized they would be better off way up north. I like the idea of the earth elementals, this would better explain the tremors and ground shaking monsters I mentioned (I really like them as the pollutant causing race also) Who has a map? Lets get started! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 12:36:45 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Caroletti Subject: Re: Qauriks (was Adri Varma Plateau) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyway, Qauriks do not fit within the Adri Varma...8-) Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 12:28:44 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Francesco Defferrari Subject: amazonians MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, about the oltec cultures of Mystara i have developed Pelatan a bit, you = can find the files in Shawn's site. But my Pelatan is more a mix of = Tanagoro and Elves than a Oltec culture. Besides, there are not many = Oltecs in Davania, the only oltecs are in the addakian region, and are = former slaves of blackmoorian colonizations...or descendant of the = ancient migration of llhommarian times...=20 There is a very amazonian-like culture in eastern Davania, the = Manacapuru tribal lands, developed for the first time in PWA II, i = think. Later non canon material supposed they were descended from oltec = nations that fights against the carnifex helping Llhommar... I'm developing a very amazonians-like culture for the davania group = anyway, but i don't know when and if that will be published in the = almanac... They will be placed along the izondian deep coast, north of = Izonda and quite far from Pelatan. Francesco "What can change the nature of a man ?" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 15:26:18 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Amazonians? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe Kelly wrote: > Thanks everyone, I think I will go with the north west of the savage Baronies idea [..] > I guess from now on I should be more specific, but I really didn't know how. > The REAL reason I said Amazons/Maztica is cause I wanted to mention how the > Nobles of Port Siers/The rock of Bral/Freeport/ were crazy about some exotic > bird feathers from Maztica, so my assumption was a jungle region, ie > Maztica/Amazon. I didn't know how else to put it. So, you were basically looking for a jungle region where an exotic bird could come from... in that case, you'd probably go for the Orc's Head/Arm of the Immortal region instead, since it has lot of jungle, and surely a number of mutated bird species, due to the red curse. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 17:19:06 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Phillip Jones Subject: Re: Adri Varma Project Organization I MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I don't think they were refering to this kind of pollution, that doesn't > seem to fit very well in a fantasy campaign. Why not though? Mystara already has certain sci-fi aspects to it. Is not the Nucleus of the Spheres actually a spacecraft engine? Cannot the Alphatians and the Fleams actually be looked upon as "aliens"? The good thing with fantasy is anything goes (given a rational explaination that is). This was my train of thought behind my previous post, and of course, its an entirely different view to what was being toyed with, so it would at least offer options :) I'm not too familiar with the Blackmoor civilization, but from what I can recall, they turned their back on magic and pursued a more technological vein. In which case, as their technology increased, so would their production methods. Therefore, it is rational to assume that some sort of industrial revolution could have taken place there, hence "factories". This would lead to pollution of that kind that I was thinking about. There were a couple of reasons why I chose the Blackmoor civilization too. To start off with, to my knowlege, this has never been encountered before in Mystara, making it original. I've heard of Nithian Liches, but never a Blackmoor Lich (the Azcan one is original too though, and I do like the idea of it - see below for my ramblings on that idea :) ). I suppose there must be Blackmoor Liches though, if people like Asterius, who was basically no more than a Blackmoor merchant, could achieve immortality. Also, the Blackmoor Lich's dependancy on chemicals to keep it in its current state could be a very good reason why no-one has heard about it before. Secondly, I'm sure I've read somewhere, that in the area where Glantri is now located used to be part of the Blackmoor civilization (I can't swear to this though as I do not have my D&D material to hand to reference it). If it was, and the Azcan and Blackmoor civilizations developed at the same time, though knew nothing of each other, then wouldn't the Adri Varma Plateau be a bit close to have a major Azcan settlement? If you wanted to go with an Azcan Lich however, the only thing I could possibly tie into this thread would be an alternate way for the pollution of the rivers. The Azcan Lich was once a great Azcan priest who worshipped a Entropic Immortal. The human sacrifices he made to this Immortal was so great in number (it could have actually been part of his path to Immortality, which, of course he failed, and could explain why he's a lich) that he actually opened a gate to the sphere of entropy (or to part of the Nightmare Dimension, take your pick :) ). The resulting foulness that issued forth from this gate corrupted the land around and tainted the nearby rivers with a vile blackness, which made the waters poisonous to drink (I would suggest a dibilitating poison rather than a deadly one which becomes weaker and weaker the further away from the gateway it goes, so by the time it cascades off the plateau, it only looks dark and polluted, but is free from the effects it would have had if drunk higher upstream). Phil (aka Alexander Korrigan, humble student of the Great School of Magic) I'm not evil - just practical. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 17:37:21 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Phillip Jones Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I think Im begining to see the reason why project needs small groups... > > We have so many ideas going around, some want a Nithian Lich, others an > Azcan lich and still others a Blackmoor lich. > > Some talk about poeple from module Palace of the Silver Princess, other talk > about Kirg like culture, other about demi-orc race, others about polluting > civilization, others have suggested Quauriks not to mention the cacti-men. > > Also is what is causing pollution. Here we have polluting civ, azcan pyramid > and dark magic, blackmoor factory and probably more which I have forgot. > > I am sure I have missed some. I totally agree with you. There does seem to be alot of different ideas floating about for the Adri Varma plateau (my own included :) ). I think a small group of people should form to do the project, using some of the ideas suggested to develop the area. I've given one or two ideas - to be used or not, as the case may be. :) I'm just looking forward to see what the project team will come up with. :) Phil (aka Alexander Korrigan, humble student of the Great School of Magic) I'm not evil - just practical. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 17:09:56 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Adri Varma Project Organization I Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >I'm not too familiar with the Blackmoor civilization, but from what I can >recall, they turned their back on magic and pursued a more technological >vein. In which case, as their technology increased, so would their I wouldnt say that, the original Blackmoor material was more fantasy meets high-tech. I tought they continued in both ways. We would have to ask the Mystara expert for more on this tough. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 17:12:53 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >this area and not moving on to the Plain of Fire. With the plateau >rising 6000 feet up, that makes the air pretty thin (but still very Just for my curiosity, where is this information mentioned. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 17:19:30 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Rif: Re: [MYSTARA] Andri Varma Plateau Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >well i was saying that because i already made it.... >but i can change it easily... > Is there anyway some of us could have access to this map ? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 17:59:10 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Adri Varma Plateau Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed What do we do with information provided in the Orange Cover of Palace of the silver Princess ( which is available free for download on WoTC website ) ? It is afterall the only official information released on the plateau. On the other hand it was never released and the other edition ( the green cover I think ) should then be used as canon material thus negating the orange cover. The map doe`snt seem to fit also. On the other hand I don`t see this module well adapted to Karameikos where it was later placed, so if we want to keep the villages provided there we should put them on the plateau. I don't own the other edition so I don't know what they did with location, changed them or adapted them to a new map. I think we should drop this and use the published adventure as source material but what does the rest of the list think about this ? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 15:31:27 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: War and Conquest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James -- You raised some excellent points -- an Immortal patron of War could in theory be "good". However, in Vanya's case she is sufficiently non-good that the thought of her clerics consorting with demons is not as unthinkable as it would be for clerics of a truly "good" Immortal -- and in fact there is indeed much evidence of Thanatos being able to corrupt her followers quite easily without the sort of subterfuge that Hel resorted to in her "cult of Balthac". If Vanya were of any sort of "good" alignment, she would do her best to ensure that any wars she promotes are meant to destroy evil and preserve good, at least as she views them -- but in fact she promotes war and conquest for their own sake, which means that we would in fact be generous in making her neutral on the good/evil scale. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 15:40:14 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Gilles Leblanc" > So what climates do we use, altough I like the idea of Gobi desert climate > better, someone pointed out climate would be more akin to Tibet. But there > are cacti on the map... > > We could ignore cacti or rule that for some freak reason climate is warmer, > but since the region is pretty large I don't know how we could justify > this... Aren't those cacti rather magically abnormal? Either they are adapted to cold climates, or they warm up the areas where they are present -- one of those possibilities would be my guess. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 21:48:03 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Gilles Leblanc skrev: > > I think we should drop this and use the published > adventure as source > material but what does the rest of the list think > about this ? The orange cover B3 presents Gulluvia. It includes a map of the Plateau, and ofcourse, introduces the Palace of the Silver Princess. The green cover B3 also has the Palace of the Silver Princess, but it is set in Haven, but not Gulluvia. Haven has been officially placed in Karameikos so I think we should keep it there. However, it is possible to remove the Palace from Gulluvia, and keep the rest of the place. I suggest that we replace the Palace with the Azcan pyramid! What was the name of the Lich again? Atzri-Voc or something? I liked that name, and since noone came up with any other name I think we should keep it. The Baroness of Gulluvia could possibly be under his control. I remember David Knott writing something about Gulluvia being partly controlled by Hule and partly by Glantri. We could expand upon this. As for the other ideas, maybe we could fit some of those in Gulluvia aswell? The Sand People article is so old I almost consider it official. I think we should keep them in there, although there isn't that much room for desert in there. The cacti, i dont know about..I'll have to study the map a bit closer. Thib, why dont you let us see the maps you have on this region already? Alot of people mentioned Demi-Orcs..I dont remember reading the original mail mentioning these. I know that the Denagothians are sort of Demi-Orcs. Could that fit? Or were we talking about a nomadic band with links to Ethengar? If so, maybe these could be moved further west? In any case there is no reason why we can't create several alternate versions of the Plateau, although personally, I would prefer to use as much as possible of the orange B3, as it is sort of quasi-official. Haavard ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 21:51:53 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Adri Varma Project Organization I In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Gilles Leblanc skrev: > > > I wouldnt say that, the original Blackmoor material > was more fantasy meets > high-tech. I tought they continued in both ways. We > would have to ask the > Mystara expert for more on this tough. You are correct. Some scholars speculate that it was the combination of magic and technology that caused the destruction of Blackmoor. Many on this list though seem to support the theory that the Blackmoorians used a brand of magic called technomancy; understanding technology through magic. In any case, magic was indeed used throughout the Blackmoor era. Haavard ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 21:53:56 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: War and Conquest In-Reply-To: <002f01c10101$6ec6c540$5863d8cd@jdaly> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Jeff Daly skrev: > You don't agree with ANY of the above? I'm sure you > don't mean number 2... Good point! :) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Havard Faanes" > To: > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 12:35 PM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] War and Conquest > > > > This discussion is already flawed. 20th Century > > morality, the concepts of good and evil, and the > > alignment system can hardly be unified. > > > > To me, this is a question of genre. In the fantasy > > genre, violence is not neccesarily evil. Neither > is > > conquest or destruction. IMO you don't have to > agree > > with any of this in real life, but questioning the > > morality of such actions within the game is > actually > > moving away from the genre. > > > > 1. Evil exists > > 2. The destruction of evil is good. > > 3. Battles are glorious and honorable activities > > (=good) > > 3. Feudalism with a good King is the best possible > > political system. > > > > In real life, I dont agree with any of the above, > but > > as I see it these are fundamentals in the fantasy > > genre. > > > > Haavard > > > > PS: Good to see you back with us, James! > > > > > > --- James Mishler skrev: > > < > would thus use the inherently destructive nature > > > of war and conquest as > > > an argument against allowing her to be of any > sort > > > of "Good" alignment.>> > > > > > > Ah, but of course certain apsects of an Immortal > of > > > war and conquest can be > > > Good and FOR Good! Inherently destructive does > not > > > necessitate inherently > > > non-Good. They don't call it a "+5 Holy Avenger > > > sword" for no reason, you > > > know. Destruction for destruction's own sake, > yes, > > > that is evil, but > > > destruction for a purpose, that is something > > > different. > > > > > > Also, not all followers of Vanya emphasize the > > > conquest, and not all > > > emphasize the war aspects. Emphasizing simply > the > > > War aspect, there are all > > > sorts of Good ways to interpret that. Is a > Paladin > > > Evil simply because he > > > kills Evil beings? Is Death necessarily Evil > just > > > because it also takes Good > > > people? No, of course not, in either case. A > Paladin > > > brings justice and > > > righteous vengeance upon Evil folks on a one to > one > > > scale, as it were. And > > > then, Death, especially at the end of a long and > > > fruitful life, will bring > > > one to one's just spiritual reward. > > > > > > By the same token, War can be a tool for Good as > > > well. So, too, in many ways > > > can Conquest. Without War and Conquest, how can > one > > > free the oppressed? > > > Without war and conquest (or, in this case, > > > re-conquest) how would the > > > Western Defense League have been able to throw > out > > > Hule? You can bet many > > > folk were praying to Vanya then! Or, to take a > cue > > > from our own RW, how > > > would the Allies have defeated the Axis in WWII, > > > without War and Conquest as > > > a tool? Harsh language? > > > > > > War and Conquest are not Evil in and of > themselves. > > > They are, like any other > > > tool, only what they are used for. In the case > of > > > the Heldannic Knights, in > > > Canon, they are in fact Evil. In the case of > Bruce's > > > interpretation, they > > > are simply Neutral (and misguided). What if, > instead > > > of conquering the > > > Heldann, they had conquered Denegoth, killed the > > > Necromancer and his > > > followers, and ruled that land? Would they be > good > > > or evil for that action > > > (notwithstanding their later actions, as we are > > > debating the natuire of war > > > and conquest, not rulership)? > > > > > > To paint War and Conquest as Evil simply because > of > > > modern Western belief > > > systems that have been so heavily altered > > > (corrupted, some might say) by > > > "Peacenik" views, in which no war is considered > > > proper or just, would be a > > > fallacy. For example, today we view the Crusades > > > (and the Islamic conquests > > > that preceded them) as inherently a wrong and > evil > > > thing, however, to the > > > philosophy of the period and of the religions of > the > > > time, they were "Just > > > Wars," and, in both cases, a required part of > their > > > people's religion to > > > bring the Faith unto the faithless. Suggested > > > reading to see both sides of > > > the story (as in Good and Evil, though also in > this > > > case, from European and > > > Arabic eyes) are: > > > > > > The Crusades: Iron Men and Saints, by Harold > Lamb > > > The Crusades through Arab Eyes, by Amin Maalouf > > > > > > And for a good view of ADVENTURE to be had in > the > > > midst of war, read: > > > > > > The Sowers of the Thunder, by Robert E. Howard > > > > > > Note that in this case, the Crusades are painted > as > > > Good by Europeans and > > > Evil by Muslims. It could just as easily be > > > interpreted the other way > > > around, six hundred years earlier, when the > Muslims > > > conquered the region > > > from the natives and the Byzantines! In > Maalouf's > > > terms, their invasion > > > could be interpreted as "a brutal, destructive, > > > unprovoked invasion by > > > barbarian hordes." As Howard or Ibn Khaldun > would > > > say, "such is the cycle of > > > history," and thus, in the wash, it is all > neutral, > > > but each side acts of > > > and by Good through their own actions. > > > > > > Back to the game at hand, though, taking the > > > philosophy on War that you do, > > > how do you then view any martial action taken by > > > characters as Good? If War > > > is Evil, by this train of thought, then so is > > > Battle, and all forms of > > > killing. What would your adventurers do, then, > if > > > they went to the Caves of > > > Chaos? Hand out flowers and ask the natives to > be > > > nice? Any martial action > > > (read = slaughter by character types) against > the > > > beings there would be > > > nothing less than a small crusade, or war, even > > > though on a man to man > > > rather than nation to nation scale. And even if > the > > > beings are ostensibly > > > evil, if any form of war or conquest is evil, > > > therefore... > > > > === message truncated === ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 20:07:16 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I still maintain my opinion to drop Gullivia. But if we were to use it, we would have to either alter Gullivia ( the maps used in B3 is nowhere like the one in every other Mystara products ) or say that the maps in CoM and WoTI are wrong. If we put the palace in Adri-Varma, wouldnt that contredict the palace being in Haven in Karameikos under published material which should be considered canon. Personnaly I don't like the Mystara OD&D modules I have seen. They seem full of holes, not Mystara specific at all and seem to have been written with no bigger picture than the scope of their individual module. The excellent work found in the Alamanacs and Gazeteers appears much more unfied as a single campaign setting. IMC the modules are more or less canon and I prefer reling on Almanacs, GAZs and boxed sets ( WoTI, CoM, GKoM, KKoA, etc. ) >--- Gilles Leblanc skrev: > > > I think we should drop this and use the published > > adventure as source > > material but what does the rest of the list think > > about this ? > >The orange cover B3 presents Gulluvia. It includes a >map of the Plateau, and ofcourse, introduces the >Palace of the Silver Princess. > >The green cover B3 also has the Palace of the Silver >Princess, but it is set in Haven, but not Gulluvia. > >Haven has been officially placed in Karameikos so I >think we should keep it there. However, it is possible >to remove the Palace from Gulluvia, and keep the rest >of the place. > >I suggest that we replace the Palace with the Azcan >pyramid! What was the name of the Lich again? >Atzri-Voc or something? I liked that name, and since >noone came up with any other name I think we should >keep it. >The Baroness of Gulluvia could possibly be under his >control. I remember David Knott writing something >about Gulluvia being partly controlled by Hule and >partly by Glantri. We could expand upon this. > >As for the other ideas, maybe we could fit some of >those in Gulluvia aswell? The Sand People article is >so old I almost consider it official. I think we >should keep them in there, although there isn't that >much room for desert in there. The cacti, i dont know >about..I'll have to study the map a bit closer. Thib, >why dont you let us see the maps you have on this >region already? > >Alot of people mentioned Demi-Orcs..I dont remember >reading the original mail mentioning these. I know >that the Denagothians are sort of Demi-Orcs. Could >that fit? Or were we talking about a nomadic band with >links to Ethengar? If so, maybe these could be moved >further west? > >In any case there is no reason why we can't create >several alternate versions of the Plateau, although >personally, I would prefer to use as much as possible >of the orange B3, as it is sort of quasi-official. > >Haavard > >______________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 20:12:47 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Preleminary Adri Varma material Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Here is some preliminary Adri Varma material I have written. Note that this isn't official or anything, as I will need to update it many times when the Adri-Varma group changes ideas on some topics and adds other civs like Demi-orcs and such. But for a base I think it could work. Shawn don't post this on your site yet as it will be changed many times. I would like some feedback by the more active poeple in the Adri-Varma discussion. I have temporarly named the cacti-poeple the Stolari or something, but I made up this name on the spur of the moment. I plan on detailing the cacti-poeple in another post as Christopher is detailing the demi-orchish kirgs. Note also that I haven't included stuff from the Orange Cover of B3 in there ( I think I will call it OCB3 from now on ). Also note that my original is a .doc file with diffrent font sizes and bold fonts, etc. Since this is plain text the formating will be taken out. ------------------------------------------ Adri Varma Plateau, The Great Northern Wildlands Location: Continent of Brun. North of Sind, northwest of Glantri, west of Wendar. Description: The Adri Varma plateau is a vast and diversified plateau. The plateau�s wall, or side, has been broken in several places with millennia�s of erosion, earthquakes and other geological activities. In several places, ruble from rock slides and other natural occurrences have thus made for easy climbing. The rest of the plateau�s side is composed of eroded rock filled with many small caves. Thus it is easier than most expect to climb its wall. Of a general height between 4000 and 6000 feet the lands near the plateau�s cliff side are mostly badlands. Other regions include the desert region, which mostly consist of hills and rocky desert, and finally the interior region, which consists of plains, grasslands, hills with some rare forest and swamps. The most known and biggest swamp is known as the Great Northern Wetlands, or simply the Gray Marshes to many of the plateau inhabitants. This swamp is only slightly smaller than the Darokinian Malpheggi swamps. These descriptions of the plateau are for the southern part of the plateau, which is nearer to Sind and Glantri. As one travels northwards on this large plateau the climate progressively gets colder until the landscape is more of a tundra and later falls into artic climes. Flora/Fauna: The plateau houses many diverse ecosystems. The plateau houses many magical creatures, the results of failed glantrian experiments which have been further mutated by the corruptive force of the plateau. Regions: The three main regions are the borderlands, which are close to the border of the plateau wall. The desert ring is a region surrounding the borderlands. And finally the mainland region that occupies the central region of the plateau. Borderlands Description: The borderlands are a semi-arid region of badlands which also encompass the plateau�s wall themselves. This region is home to the Ungolwaith, also known as the Sand Folk. They tend to dwell more around the cliffs. More information can be found on the Vaults of Pandius ( http://dnd.starflung.com ) under Adri Varma Plateau. This region is also inhabited by cactus-like creatures which roam the badlands and the deserts of the desert ring. Throughout the region small underground spring or small stagnant pools of water can be found under the shade the broken terrain has to offer. From time to time underground caves opening can be found which leads into warmer caves. At the bottom of these caves can often be found magma pools which account for the warmer underground temperatures. Rarely, in some small crevice or precipice, which are frequent through the region, can be found a small volcanic vent spewing hot air and gases. The vents often lead to magma a few hundred feet below. While these vents offer a good source of heat during the night, their fumes have poisoned many travelers. Cacti most often grow near cave or vent mouths, living off the heat provided. Climate: This is a dry region where rains rarely fall. The few clouds let the sun shine almost permanently. Although the region is hot during the day constant winds cool the air. During the night, the thin air and high altitude makes for a sudden drop in temperature which is close to the freezing point. The winds are known to pick up during the night because of the cooling of the air. These winds blow strong gales of cold air that chill creatures to the bone. Flora/Fauna: Small cactus patch thrive near gas vents and caves entrance. The rest of the region grows mostly thin hardy shrubs, thick strong bramble weed and small patches of short grayish grasses. The region is also home to the Stolari, the cactus creatures, the Ungolwaith, eagles, air fundamentals, hive brood, surtaki and some athach giants and some giant centipedes. This region also hosts a number of failed glantrian magical experiments. Many sages believe the surtaki to be one of them. Mages often banish, let loose or study magical creatures in this environment due to it�s close proximity to Glantri. The desert ring Description: The desert ring is an arid region composed mainly of small hills and rocky deserts. These deserts are mostly rock beds littered with rocks of different sizes down to sand grain. As the rocks are not in an advanced state of erosion sand isn�t found through most of the region. The rocky desert is the area closer to the borderlands, while the hilly region is closest to the mainland. Offering some small protection against sand and winds. This area borders on both of it�s neighbor regions and can be seem as a transition area between the two. Caves are rarer in this part of the plateau and most often found in the hills. Climate: The climate here is similar to the borderlands except that the winds, while still being strong, are much less strong. This fact become increasingly true as one distances himself from the plateau�s cliff. The region tends to see a little less rainfall in the desert regions, while the hills receive about as much rain as the borderlands. As the winds get weaker, the temperature also gets colder to the point where it is a couple of degrees colder during the day and during the night the temperature is about the same. Because the borderlands have strong cool winds, this difference in temperature isn�t noticeable too much to travelers coming from the borderlands. Flora/Fauna: This regions has small grasses, weeds and bushes on it�s hill while the rocky desert has few plants. From time to time some small cacti or plant can be spotted but these are rare. The region also houses some Stolari cactus and some rare Ungolwaiths, but these two creatures are rare occurrences in this region. Other creatures include snakes, earthquake beetles, bugbears, a few rare gargantuan trolls and chimeras and some giant centipedes. Rumors also speak of a single deadly mek patrolling the hills. Some glantrian experiments also roam this region although they are a less common occurrence in this region. The mainland Description: The mainland is a cold area which mostly consist of windy plains and grasslands. A small forest of tall pine trees can be found here and there as well as the occasional swamp. The plains are rolling and moderately fertile. Small rivers and ponds dot the landscape. The river Devaki is the largest of these, it is known in Sind as it diverse it�s foul, black polluted waters during monsoon season. The river is polluted has it passes under the corrupting influence of the lands under the control of the Atzri-Voca and also near it�s source when it passes in the lands of Sol-Klor. The mainland is the most habitable region on Adri Varma. Climate: This region receives more rainfall than the rest of the plateau due to a microclimate. Strong winds are present, but are far less dreadful than on the rest of the plateau. Past the hills the climates get much colder due to the increased humidity and several other factors. The winters are extremely cold and the summer months are considered extremely chilly by known world standards. As one travels northward on the mainland, or anywhere else on the plateau, the climate gets progressively colder. Going into taiga and tundra and even further north into a semi-artic climate. Fortunately the southern part of the plateau is warmer. Notable Sites: The Gray Marshes also known as the Great Northern Wetlands are a large area of cold wetlands which consists of interconnected gray murky shallow ponds surrounded by very small muddy islands covered in wet grasses and brown shrubs. The black woods is a large pine forest near the Gray Marshes. Named for the deep shade provided by it�s thick canopy and the many large rocks and caves it contains. Flora/Fauna: With plains, grasslands, forests and swamps this regions has many diverse ecosystems. To be noted among the fauna are bears, yaks and dire wolves. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 22:01:49 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Phillip Jones Subject: Re: Adri Varma Project Organization I MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > I wouldnt say that, the original Blackmoor material > > was more fantasy meets > > high-tech. I tought they continued in both ways. We > > would have to ask the > > Mystara expert for more on this tough. > > You are correct. Some scholars speculate that it was > the combination of magic and technology that caused > the destruction of Blackmoor. Ok :) I stand corrected. :) The point I was making however, was that Blackmoor being an advanced technological culture would have had industrialization of sorts, and thus be a cause of pollution, which would tie in to the one idea I had for the Adri Varma plateau, with the source of the pollution of the rivers being a ruined Blackmoor city in which dwelt a Blackmoor Lich who had made that place his home. A bit moot now anyway ,as I'll wait and see what the Adri Varma Project Team come up with. :) Saves me alot of work. (and would probably be alot better too!! lol) :) Btw where can I find the best information on Blackmoor?? Discussing this here, has got me interested in looking into it further. Perhaps I can incorporate tidbits about it in an archeological type of scenario I'm currently working on. Thanks Phil (aka Alexander Korrigan, humble student of the Great School of Magic) I'm not evil - just practical. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 22:29:12 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Adri Varma Project Organization I Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Look on the Vaults of Pandius and under search type blackmoor to have acess to everything on the site. Other sites ( which I found in the vaults link section ) include http://home.earthlink.net/~zimriel/Blackmoor/index.html which has a GAZ on Blackmoor campaign. This is more on the blackmoor campaign without it's ties to Greyhawk/Mystara. I read a lot of it and it doesn't seem to mention tech. Another site is http://www.angelfire.com/co/coreil/ which doesnt contain much. Blackmoor is mentioned in the Shadow Elf GAZ under the immortal Rafiel and in the Hollow World boxed set time line and under the Blacklore elves in the HW boxed set. > >Ok :) I stand corrected. :) The point I was making however, was that >Blackmoor being an advanced technological culture would have had >industrialization of sorts, and thus be a cause of pollution, which would >tie in to the one idea I had for the Adri Varma plateau, with the source of >the pollution of the rivers being a ruined Blackmoor city in which dwelt a >Blackmoor Lich who had made that place his home. A bit moot now anyway ,as >I'll wait and see what the Adri Varma Project Team come up with. :) Saves >me alot of work. (and would probably be alot better too!! lol) :) > >Btw where can I find the best information on Blackmoor?? Discussing this >here, has got me interested in looking into it further. Perhaps I can >incorporate tidbits about it in an archeological type of scenario I'm >currently working on. >Thanks >Phil >(aka Alexander Korrigan, humble student of the Great School of Magic) >I'm not evil - just practical. > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 00:49:33 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Gilles Leblanc wrote: > I still maintain my opinion to drop Gullivia. But if > we were to use it, we > would have to either alter Gullivia ( the maps used > in B3 is nowhere like > the one in every other Mystara products ) or say > that the maps in CoM and > WoTI are wrong. Go ahead and develope the Plateau the way you want. And do share it with us! I dont think OCB3 really contradicts most other maps though, it is just more detailed as most other maps leave the place pretty much empty (albeit with some cacti). > If we put the palace in Adri-Varma, wouldnt that > contredict the palace being > in Haven in Karameikos under published material > which should be considered > canon. My idea was to keep the Palace and Haven in Karameikos, and the replace the Palace on the Plateau with the Azcan Pyramid and Lich... > Personnaly I don't like the Mystara OD&D modules I > have seen. They seem full > of holes, not Mystara specific at all and seem to > have been written with no > bigger picture than the scope of their individual > module. The excellent work > found in the Alamanacs and Gazeteers appears much > more unfied as a single > campaign setting. IMC the modules are more or less > canon and I prefer reling > on Almanacs, GAZs and boxed sets ( WoTI, CoM, GKoM, > KKoA, etc. ) I totally agree with you. However, I've found that the modules provide excellent inspiration and material that when modified to fit the setting and my tastes works pretty well. It would be a shame not to use all that already published Mystara material in some way or other... Haavard ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 18:10:24 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: James Mishler Subject: Re: War and Conquest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <> Oh, I was not meaning to say that Vanya herself should be Good, merely that her followers, including clerics, could be Good (specifically, Neutral Good). I'd say that Vanya herself is True Neutral, and any of her clerics could be up to one step away from that. Thus, Lawful Neutral, Neutral Good, True Neutral, Neutral Evil, and Chaotic Neutral. Anyone, of any align ment could, of course, pray to her and try to follow her philosophy of war and conquest (IMC she is also "Our Lady of Victory"). Her clerics of various alignments would thus view her philosophies in the following manner: Lawful Neutral: War is the means to Conquest, which is an end in and of itself, to better unite all under one banner, allowing for more organization to develop within a single, unified society. [IMC this is the alignment of the Heldannic Knights, as the Hattian Knights actually do not worship Vanya, they worship Ares (another name for Orcus IMC).] Neutral Good: War is the means used to free the oppressed from Evil, Conquest is the means used to ensure that Good predominates over Evil. Note also that there might well be Lawful Good paladins that dedicate their victories to Vanya. True Neutral: War and Conquest are the way of life, and are means and ends unto themselves. Neutral Evil: War is the means to Conquer and dominate your enemies and any that might be weaker than you. [This, I imagine, would be the default alignment for the Heldannic and Hattian Knights in Canon Mystara.] Chaotic Neutral: Conquer or be conquered. War is fun. Its that ruling afterward bit that is the pain in the backside... As to other followers of other alignments, just as in the basic ancient Roman pantheon, anyone that would be heading out to war, or setting out on the road to conquest, would try to propitiate Vanya, hoping for her favor. James ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 18:16:51 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: James Mishler Subject: Origins? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone else here going to the Origins convention in Columbus, Ohio next week? James ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 20:40:39 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "Shawn J." Subject: Re: Adri Varma Plateau MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/30/01 6:57:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, havardfaa@YAHOO.NO writes: > Go ahead and develope the Plateau the way you want. > And do share it with us! I dont think OCB3 really > contradicts most other maps though, it is just more > detailed as most other maps leave the place pretty > much empty (albeit with some cacti). > > > If we put the palace in Adri-Varma, wouldnt that > > contredict the palace being > > in Haven in Karameikos under published material > > which should be considered > > canon. > > My idea was to keep the Palace and Haven in > Karameikos, and the replace the Palace on the Plateau > with the Azcan Pyramid and Lich... > Here's an idea I used in my campaign that you're welcome to use: Since in B1-9, an immortal brings the PCs to Haven, I always decided that Haven doesn't really exist in Karameikos. The Immortal involved only made it seem so (sneaky huh), this way Haven could be set anywhere else or anyWHEN else. I never bothered deciding exactly when and where the valley was, because the PCs never left the valley. To help tie together the Orange cover version and the new one, we could presume that same Immortal has always defended Haven and used the same trick. This way, the Palace could be on the plateau or it may have just seemed so. Another thought is that often ancient maps distort the scale of what they depict, perhaps the whole region is actually smaller than it appears in that module! ;^) [Thus it might then fit inside the borders of Glantri?] --- Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message.