========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 11:34:17 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Caroletti Subject: Re: Zzonga and Thyatis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christopher Cherrington wrote: > >From WotI, page 72, Spring, year 1004: Thyatis's Revolt ...many Thyatian > officers are charged with dereliction of duty or with incompetence, > especially those who appear to be addicted to the dangerous zzonga > fruit; they are executed. > Yes, it's true. But I said: > > Well, jokes apart, in DotE there is little mention to this problem in > the > Empire. > In > > DotE, I have never liked too much WotI because it changed too much from DotE. However, it is also mentioned that an Immortal (I don't recall who) is especially active to spread laziness and corruption (and zzonga) through the officers. Anyway, the zzonga addiction is a result of the corruption, and not viceversa. The main problem in Thyatis is corruption, not zzonga. Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 14:18:40 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: Zzonga and Thyatis Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >>From WotI, page 72, Spring, year 1004: Thyatis's Revolt ...many Thyatian >officers are charged with dereliction of duty or with incompetence, >especially those who appear to be addicted to the dangerous zzonga >fruit; they are executed. > If you read WoTI completly you see that it's just recently that the immortal Valerias, under an assumed identity as introducted the drug. Later either in WoTI or one PWA I don't recall, it mentions that the thyatis army is now free of this problem. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 05:56:59 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Richard Tongue Subject: OD&DITIES Issue 4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OD&DITIES Issue 4 is now up! Three times normal size, the fanzine dedicated to OD&D features articles on character classes such as the Necromancer, and rules for Psionics in OD&D> It can be found at www. tongue. fsnet. co. uk do not include spaces ). Enjoy! Richard Tongue ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 11:40:21 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: M Novy Subject: Re: Zzonga, drugs, etc? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Actually there is a two page description of it in the module Arena of Thyatis. If you have that. >From: Cobra CAO > >Where was the Zzonga plant mentioned, anyone know? I thought/know it is in >one of the Gazetteers. I was going to answer Mike by quote from the books, >but couldn't find the passage. I thought it was in the Thyatis or Alphatia >Gazetteer handbooks _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 10:02:13 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Cassandro Glantri Subject: Re: Zzonga, drugs, etc? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hail Mystarans! We at the GPD have introduced a beginning drug problem of zzonga in the Principalities, propagated mainly by the heir to the Ruined Principality of Blackhill, Sir Lathan Aendyr, and once by the hedonistic Mistress Alessa di Corenveni, the former Mistress of Enchantment at the Great School of Magic. The links are given below as referrences: Lathan Aendyr http://www.geocities.com/principalities_of_glantri/houses/silverston/lathan.htm Zzonga-based Spells http://www.geocities.com/principalities_of_glantri/spells/blackhill/sp_lathan.htm Alessa di Corenveni http://www.geocities.com/principalities_of_glantri/others/masters/inguin.htm Kit Navarro GPD Archduke __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 22:23:04 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: thibault sarlat Subject: Adri varma map available in 5 minutes!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My fellows mystarans, at last the map of the adri varma plateau in 8 miles per hex is ready for you to download. I have not written any name , because it needs the approval of the full group of dedicated developpers.It has to fit their creations. You'll be able to find it in the midland section. It is 340 Kb for the moment, so i guess that with the wrttings it shall be about 350 K. My Grid matrix for the map is available on demand. Feed back is as always welcome. ! ! ! Thibault Sarlat. ICQ 16622177. homepage http://www.mystara.fr.st Join me at: thibsylv@club-internet.fr or at clenarius@hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 13:34:25 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Catastrophes In-Reply-To: <005c01c10c84$9f236d40$7f6c1f3f@q6s7w2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Actually that catastrophe would probably have been > far less severe > in its effects than the recent Meteor impact that > created the Great Crater, > -- so the Known World should have been subject > to a calamity slightly less severe than a mass > extinction of all life in the region. Of course, > something slightly less severe than a mass > extinction would still be pretty bad.... yeah, but in the real world you don't have immortals running around cleaning things up (and making a mess...) I thought it was fairly drastic for a while, esspecally in glantri. But that too could have been imortal tinkering, making the effects more noticable in one country. Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 22:42:04 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Agathokles Subject: Pachydermions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is my version of the Pachydermion race (I don't know whether there are other versions or not). I envision the race as strongly focused on clerical pursuits. I add a number of subraces, in the style of Bruce Heard's articles on lupins and rakasta. For now, I'm sending only the rules stuff (AD&D2e, of course), for the rest is still being worked on as part of a small project of mine on Damocles and the Mystaraspace in general. Pachydermion ------------ Pachydermions are a race of large, heavy, elephant-like humanoids. They are tall as a human, but remarkably more massive. They have gray skin, covered with patches of coarse gray hair. Pachydermions are mostly vegetarians, and only a few Maelephant-blooded can stand the taste of meat, or gain any nurture from it. While their powerful physiques allow them to become good warriors, most Pachydermions share a pacifistic philosophy. They become often priests or craftsmen. Due to their bulky body, to their clumsiness in moving, and to their lawful and good tendencies, they never become thieves. They make poor wizards or bards, too, as they have little magical talent. The Pachydermion societies are generally theocratic, though more primitive Pachydermion cultures exist, especially among tribes of Mammoth Pachydermions. The most common subrace takes from the common Elephant, and is less biased or specialized than the others. Its members are especially good at crafts and make powerful priests of lawful good Immortals. Maelephant-blooded Pachydermions are outstanding guardians. They make powerful warriors, but rarely choose different careers. They are extremely loyal, and never betray an employer. Baku-blooded Pachydermions (if psionics are allowed) extremely powerful psionicists, and can be good priests too. They are among the less common subspecies, and are usually travellers, wandering alone or in small family groups. Holy Baku are very intelligent, and are the best Pachydermion wizards. Mammoth and Oliphant Pachydermions are stronger and tougher than their cousins, and also more aggressive. Mammoths are quite primitive, by Pachydermion standards, and live in subarctic regions, in small clans. Oliphants are the warriors and soldiers of the Pachydermion nations. They are more mercenary than most Pachydermions, with the exception of the Maelephant-blooded. Pachydermions with the blood of Hollyphants are a faery people, weaker and gentler than the other subspecies, but strong supporters of Good. Stat Min/Max Adj Str 8/18 Int 3/17 Wis 6/18 +2 Dex 4/18 -2 Con 10/18 +1 Cha 3/18 -1 Alignment: any non-Evil, usually Lawful Racial Abilities: (5) Prehensile trunk: can do simple to medium manipulation (5) Distance communication: through trumpeting and emitting low-frequency sounds, the Pachydermions are able to communicate at great distances, much like lupins using their howling ability. (5) Infravision 60' Bloodline Freq. Align. Special Abilities Elephant 50% Any Bonus Skill: 1 craft skill at +2 Maelephant 6% LN +2 against surprise, can use Alarm spell 3/day Good Baku 8% NG Trumpet (as Rakasta Roar) vs Evil opponents Holy Baku 2% TN +1 Int Mammoth 20% CG/NG Bonus Skills: Survival (Subartic Plains), Orienteering Oliphant 12% LN/TN +1 Str, -1 Cha, can use tusks in combat for 1d6 damage Hollyphant 2% LG/NG +2 bonus to ST vs Poison, Cure Light Wounds 1/day, -1 Str, +1 Cha Classes & Level limits: Eleph. Maelep. G.Baku H. Baku Mammoth Oliph. Hollyphant Fighter 12** 15 10** 10** 12 U 8 Ranger 8 -- 12 12 14 8 -- Paladin* 15 -- -- -- -- -- 12 Wizard 6 -- -- 10 4 4 8 Priest 15**** 10 15 15 12 8 15**** Psionicist* 10 10*** U U 8 12*** 12 Bard***** 8 -- -- -- 6 4 -- *These classes are optional. **Fighters with Defender kit can reach level 15 if Elephant, level 12 if Baku. ***Must choose Kinetic or Metabolic as primary discipline ****Unlimited advancement for LG Priests *****Pachydermion Bards use the Trader kit, so they cast priest spells Thief Skills Modifiers* Pick Pockets -5% Move Silently -10% Hide in Shadows -5% Climb Walls -10% Detect Noise +10% Read Languages +5% *For Rangers and Bards Height: as a human Weight: 1 1/2 times a human of same heigth Eyes: usually dark (chestnut to black) Hair: short and coarse, various shades of gray Skills available at standard cost even when out of class: Elephant, Maelephant, Good and Holy Baku, and Hollyphant: Religion, Ceremony, Reading/Writing Mammoth, Oliphant: Blind-Fighting, Tracking, Survival -- Giampaolo Agosta X-Mozilla-Status: 0009agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 13:49:42 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Zzonga and Thyatis In-Reply-To: <000201c10cae$83132f80$9ac11542@host> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > From WotI, page 72, Spring, year 1004: Thyatis's > Revolt ...many Thyatian > officers are charged with dereliction of duty or > with incompetence, > especially those who appear to be addicted to the > dangerous zzonga > fruit; they are executed. A thyatian senitor might say: "see, the zzonga problem was solved quickly and effectively. The sign of a healthy country.... " (and also: "right he's addicted... kill him.") "No zzonga addicted uncles that no-one talks about. Leave that for the alphatians, thyatis needs not these secrets that are talked about behind closed doors. Thyatis does not keep secrets from it's citizens. Simple and precicely executed justice for the good of the whole. Completly Lawful." *grin* Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 01:07:37 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Cobra CAO Subject: Re: Pachydermions In-Reply-To: <3B52001C.E32ACA56@libero.it> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Did some good work here friend. I am looking to build the rules for the Pachydermion race for my own campaign settings. But I did see quite a few points where you deviated from Dungeons & Dragon Rules (I don't no anything about that "A" word, sorry). Here is the description as found in AC9 the Creature Catalogue. Pachydermions are very intelligent, elephant-like humanoids sometimes found in temperate regions, tropical jungles, and savannah. They stand at least 9'(you gave them average human height) tall and have elephant heads surmounting their grey leathery bodies(you gave them hair). Pacyhdermions(I know it is miss spelled, but this is how its in the book) live in cities of carved stone. They have a great knowledge of history and other lore. This knowledge is never written down and is passed down verbally from generation to generation. It is a well known fact that pachydermions never forget any knowledge or experience, and these creatures are occasionally sought out and consulted for information (sounds like a bard to me(which incidentally is an AD&D class)) -- but they invariable require payments of at least 2000gp. Although not normally aggressive, pachydermions will defend themselves, and occasionally raid enemy villages and towns. In battle a pachydermion wears ornate armour, uses two swords (one in each hand), and a great mace in the prehensile trunk. Because of the creatures' strength, and the size and weight of these weapons, the damage for each of these weapons is much greater than usual(I would probably give the race a 4d6 for strength(possibly a 3d4 or 2d6+1 for dexterity(attribute balance). For every 20 pachydermions, one is a leader with 8 Hit Dice. There are a very few (1 in 100) spell-casters (both magic-users and clerics(You made mages weak for the Pachies, but remember, these are extremely intelligent creatures, a pre-req for a Mage)) who may attain a maximum of 12th level(You maxed out the mage at way less). And there you have it.. Hope this may help you... -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Agathokles Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 3:42 PM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: [MYSTARA] Pachydermions Here is my version of the Pachydermion race (I don't know whether there are other versions or not). I envision the race as strongly focused on clerical pursuits. I add a number of subraces, in the style of Bruce Heard's articles on lupins and rakasta. For now, I'm sending only the rules stuff (AD&D2e, of course), for the rest is still being worked on as part of a small project of mine on Damocles and the Mystaraspace in general. Pachydermion ------------ Pachydermions are a race of large, heavy, elephant-like humanoids. They are tall as a human, but remarkably more massive. They have gray skin, covered with patches of coarse gray hair. Pachydermions are mostly vegetarians, and only a few Maelephant-blooded can stand the taste of meat, or gain any nurture from it. While their powerful physiques allow them to become good warriors, most Pachydermions share a pacifistic philosophy. They become often priests or craftsmen. Due to their bulky body, to their clumsiness in moving, and to their lawful and good tendencies, they never become thieves. They make poor wizards or bards, too, as they have little magical talent. The Pachydermion societies are generally theocratic, though more primitive Pachydermion cultures exist, especially among tribes of Mammoth Pachydermions. The most common subrace takes from the common Elephant, and is less biased or specialized than the others. Its members are especially good at crafts and make powerful priests of lawful good Immortals. Maelephant-blooded Pachydermions are outstanding guardians. They make powerful warriors, but rarely choose different careers. They are extremely loyal, and never betray an employer. Baku-blooded Pachydermions (if psionics are allowed) extremely powerful psionicists, and can be good priests too. They are among the less common subspecies, and are usually travellers, wandering alone or in small family groups. Holy Baku are very intelligent, and are the best Pachydermion wizards. Mammoth and Oliphant Pachydermions are stronger and tougher than their cousins, and also more aggressive. Mammoths are quite primitive, by Pachydermion standards, and live in subarctic regions, in small clans. Oliphants are the warriors and soldiers of the Pachydermion nations. They are more mercenary than most Pachydermions, with the exception of the Maelephant-blooded. Pachydermions with the blood of Hollyphants are a faery people, weaker and gentler than the other subspecies, but strong supporters of Good. Stat Min/Max Adj Str 8/18 Int 3/17 Wis 6/18 +2 Dex 4/18 -2 Con 10/18 +1 Cha 3/18 -1 Alignment: any non-Evil, usually Lawful Racial Abilities: (5) Prehensile trunk: can do simple to medium manipulation (5) Distance communication: through trumpeting and emitting low-frequency sounds, the Pachydermions are able to communicate at great distances, much like lupins using their howling ability. (5) Infravision 60' Bloodline Freq. Align. Special Abilities Elephant 50% Any Bonus Skill: 1 craft skill at +2 Maelephant 6% LN +2 against surprise, can use Alarm spell 3/day Good Baku 8% NG Trumpet (as Rakasta Roar) vs Evil opponents Holy Baku 2% TN +1 Int Mammoth 20% CG/NG Bonus Skills: Survival (Subartic Plains), Orienteering Oliphant 12% LN/TN +1 Str, -1 Cha, can use tusks in combat for 1d6 damage Hollyphant 2% LG/NG +2 bonus to ST vs Poison, Cure Light Wounds 1/day, -1 Str, +1 Cha Classes & Level limits: Eleph. Maelep. G.Baku H. Baku Mammoth Oliph. Hollyphant Fighter 12** 15 10** 10** 12 U 8 Ranger 8 -- 12 12 14 8 -- Paladin* 15 -- -- -- -- -- 12 Wizard 6 -- -- 10 4 4 8 Priest 15**** 10 15 15 12 8 15**** Psionicist* 10 10*** U U 8 12*** 12 Bard***** 8 -- -- -- 6 4 -- *These classes are optional. **Fighters with Defender kit can reach level 15 if Elephant, level 12 if Baku. ***Must choose Kinetic or Metabolic as primary discipline ****Unlimited advancement for LG Priests *****Pachydermion Bards use the Trader kit, so they cast priest spells Thief Skills Modifiers* Pick Pockets -5% Move Silently -10% Hide in Shadows -5% Climb Walls -10% Detect Noise +10% Read Languages +5% *For Rangers and Bards Height: as a human Weight: 1 1/2 times a human of same heigth Eyes: usually dark (chestnut to black) Hair: short and coarse, various shades of gray Skills available at standard cost even when out of class: Elephant, Maelephant, Good and Holy Baku, and Hollyphant: Religion, Ceremony, Reading/Writing Mammoth, Oliphant: Blind-Fighting, Tracking, Survival -- Giampaolo Agosta X-Mozilla-Status: 0009agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 11:09:09 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Pachydermions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cobra CAO wrote: > Did some good work here friend. I am looking to build the rules for the > Pachydermion race for my own campaign settings. But I did see quite a few > points where you deviated from Dungeons & Dragon Rules (I don't no anything > about that "A" word, sorry). Here is the description as found in AC9 the > Creature Catalogue. > > Pachydermions are very intelligent, elephant-like humanoids sometimes found > in temperate regions, tropical jungles, and savannah. They stand at least > 9'(you gave them average human height) tall and have elephant heads > surmounting their grey leathery bodies(you gave them hair). Except for the size point, I think the rest is solved by the multiple subraces. Mammoth Pachydermions would live in subarctic climate, and be wooly, while Elephant would have sparse hair, if any. Size is more of an issue (character races of large size or more aren't especially good), but it can be solved. > Pacyhdermions(I know it is miss spelled, but this is how its in the book) > live in cities of carved stone. They have a great knowledge of history and > other lore. This knowledge is never written down and is passed down > verbally from generation to generation. It is a well known fact that > pachydermions never forget any knowledge or experience, and these creatures > are occasionally sought out and consulted for information (sounds like a > bard to me(which incidentally is an AD&D class)) -- but they invariable > require payments of at least 2000gp. I definitely think I'll add another subrace, applying to the AC9 Pachydermions, being more adept to magery/bardic skills, and with lower priestly skills. I'd also remove any psi ability for this breed of pachydermions, even when allowed by the campaign. BTW, in campaigns with no psionics at all (as most Mystaran campaigns are), I'd use the psi level limits for wizards. > Although not normally aggressive, pachydermions will defend themselves, and > occasionally raid enemy villages and towns. In battle a pachydermion wears > ornate armour, uses two swords (one in each hand), and a great mace in the > prehensile trunk. Because of the creatures' strength, and the size and > weight of these weapons, the damage for each of these weapons is much > greater than usual(I would probably give the race a 4d6 for > strength(possibly a 3d4 or 2d6+1 for dexterity(attribute balance). This would mean a max strength of 24. AD&D maxes at 25. So a strong Pachydermion would be as strong as an average god's avatar, or a cloud giant. I think I would rather raise the min strength to 12 or 14, and have a +1 or +2 bonus. As to triple handed attacks, that's a bit more difficult, especially with low dexterity. > For > every 20 pachydermions, one is a leader with 8 Hit Dice. There are a very > few (1 in 100) spell-casters (both magic-users and clerics(You made mages > weak for the Pachies, but remember, these are extremely intelligent > creatures, a pre-req for a Mage)) who may attain a maximum of 12th level(You > maxed out the mage at way less). Not that much... 10th level, plus a max of 4 levels accounting for high intelligence--and for a very rare subrace, which complies with the AC9 description (pure chance, of course :) ). And I gave them much stronger priests. > And there you have it.. Hope this may help you... Thanks, it did help. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 20:56:01 +1000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Michael Diehm Subject: Re: Pachydermions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed On the topic of Pachydermions, I believe they deserve their own lands in the northern Aryptian Savannah. Origin: They were possibly created by Milenian wizards to act as guardians (the tough skins able to wield 3 weapons at once). Instead of being fierce warriors, they were much more inclined to listen to the Milenian orators' tales of history. From these tales, the Pachydermions orally passed on knowledge throughout the generations. The collapse of the Milenian Empire forced the Pachydermions to retreat to the east where they set claim to a territory. Throughout the centuries they have defended their lands against nomadic rakasta and Meghaddara. More recently, ivory hunters have threatened the elephant herds that they protect. The ivory hunters are now the main concern of the Pachydermions. Wish I had time to develop this more. Maybe someday. Cheers _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 16:20:26 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: Pachydermions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable what about naming their king =22Babar=22? just kidding... Great creation, and i also agree they should be located in the Aryptian Sa= vanah (or else in Skothar in the plains of Jen) thib Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177 homepage www.mystara.fr.st join me at thibsylv=40club-internet.fr or at clenarius=40hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 10:43:17 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Pachydermions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Just a quick comment... IMC they were a servitor race to the Oltecs. That is how you would find them in the Savage Coast areas, pre-Savage Baronies timeline. At the fall of the Oltec to the Azcan, these peace loving creatures, separated in small family groups and traveled nomadically through-out western Brun and the Immortals Arm. Every 100 years they all would meet again to bury their dead, make new marriages and family units, share stories and knowledge. This place was originally an ancient temple belonging to an immortal from a tribe the Oltecs had conquered centuries before they served the Oltecs as temple guardians. This secluded temple was forgotten by the Oltecs at this tribe's conquering and has since served the Pachydermions as an elephant graveyard and meeting place. At this conjunction, every large family will select a member from their family unit to stay and guard the temple until the next meeting. Usually this is an older male that has been replaced by a much younger/stronger bull (they believe in having many wives, much like a herd). At times these guardians will select a younger bull to teach him their knowledge and experiences, as at most times, this bull will be the only one left when the next meeting takes place. The more experienced bulls will meet here in between conjunction points to die of old age. Pachydermions will care for the dead until its time to bring them to the conjunction. Elephants from Sind, Hule, and the rest of Brun that run in the wild also know of this tranquil resting place, and will retire here on their death also. At one conjunction, several powerful bulls created a great sacroll to guard the entrance to the valley, from these remains. Only elephants and Pachydermions may enter unmolested by this great construct. With the encroachment of civilizations like Hule, and colonists on the coastal areas, this race is rapidly dieing out. Several immortals, Ka in particular, wanted to transplant them to the Hollow world. Other immortals, like Ordana and the Great One, want them to stay as protectors of the elephants and their graveyard. Currently they are working on a compromise by selecting a handful of special bulls to build an artifact (much like Autrughin's elevator), to keep the graveyard and allow the Pachydermions to survive in the Hollow World. > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Diehm [mailto:diehmm@HOTMAIL.COM] > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 6:56 AM > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Pachydermions > > > On the topic of Pachydermions, I believe they deserve their > own lands in the > northern Aryptian Savannah. > > Origin: They were possibly created by Milenian wizards to act > as guardians > (the tough skins able to wield 3 weapons at once). > > Instead of being fierce warriors, they were much more > inclined to listen to > the Milenian orators' tales of history. From these tales, > the Pachydermions > orally passed on knowledge throughout the generations. > > The collapse of the Milenian Empire forced the Pachydermions > to retreat to > the east where they set claim to a territory. > > Throughout the centuries they have defended their lands > against nomadic > rakasta and Meghaddara. > > More recently, ivory hunters have threatened the elephant > herds that they > protect. The ivory hunters are now the main concern of the > Pachydermions. > > Wish I had time to develop this more. Maybe someday. > > Cheers > ______________________________________________________________ > ___________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 10:50:51 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Zzonga, drugs, etc? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I just wanted you to know, my merchants from my PBeM are not supplying any illegal zzonga fruit, they are just merchants on speculative trade from every country. Now the Shires' Blue No4, pipe tobacco, that is not illegal, and its not addictive, and no it does not create premature lichdom to those Glantrians that insist on inhaling the stuff. ;) > -----Original Message----- > From: Cassandro Glantri [mailto:enchanter_from_glantri@YAHOO.COM] > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 1:02 PM > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Zzonga, drugs, etc? > > > Hail Mystarans! > > We at the GPD have introduced a beginning drug problem > of zzonga in the Principalities, propagated mainly by > the heir to the Ruined Principality of Blackhill, Sir > Lathan Aendyr, and once by the hedonistic Mistress > Alessa di Corenveni, the former Mistress of > Enchantment at the Great School of Magic. > > The links are given below as referrences: > > Lathan Aendyr > http://www.geocities.com/principalities_of_glantri/houses/silv erston/lathan.htm Zzonga-based Spells http://www.geocities.com/principalities_of_glantri/spells/blackhill/sp_latha n.htm Alessa di Corenveni http://www.geocities.com/principalities_of_glantri/others/masters/inguin.htm Kit Navarro GPD Archduke __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 11:20:58 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Zzonga, drugs, etc? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Harvey [mailto:gm@DSL-ONLY.NET] > > What other drugs exist in Mystara? Any rules for these? Anything cool > you've made up? > Other addictive drugs (IMC)... Shires' Blue No4, this pipe tobacco has a pleasing, soothing aroma. Not usually inhaled, most Hin just puff and make complicated images with its blue smoke (much easier to perform this trick than any other known pipe smoke). If inhaled, this smoke creates a euphoria that lasts for 1d6 hours. During this euphoria, the users believe to have an insight to all things arcane. Their INT is boosted by 1d4 points for the first half of the euphoria, but the second half their bonus is lost, and they suffer 1d4 points lost to WIS for an equal amount of days. The Hin keep the ingredients very secretive, but it is believed to be a concoction of select herbs found naturally in the Shires and a blend of Blue No3 (a tobacco named for its blue leaves and not its smoke) and an import tobacco, possibly from Autrughin or the elves. Pixie Wine This concoction, despite its name, is not made by pixies (but rather from pixies, their wings especially). Orcs love this hard to get item, and its the orcs that specialize in its creation. Imbibing in these sweet fluids, will not only get you incredibly drunk (usually on the first sip), but will often leave you with the belief that you can fly (possibly a side effect from some curse a captured pixie made before he expired in the process of creating this wine). Not any more addictive than regular wine or ale, dwarves that have found this concoction on several very flat orcs by a cliff, have become especially fond of this stuff and some very entrepreneurial dwarves are even beginning to trade for Pixie Wine (thinking that pixies make it, as it is to sweet and tasty to come from an orc). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 12:22:19 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: FW: RE: [MYSTARA] Zzonga, drugs, etc? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Mike Harvey [mailto:gm@DSL-ONLY.NET] > > > > > > What other drugs exist in Mystara? Any rules for these? > > Anything cool > > > you've made up? > > > > > Other addictive drugs (IMC)... > > > Ethereal Brandy This very addictive liqueur is quite possibly the first > to be banned from the markets in Darokin. This brandy made from a > mushroom and honey wine, (originally brought in by dwarves) was first > created by several Darokin merchants that wanted to concentrate the stuff > to then reconstitute and sell at market. When in its concentrated > formula, the drinker must make a saving throw vs spells at -3, or become > hopelessly addicted to the euphoric effects. The euphoria gives a sense > of lightness and slow motion, as if he was on the Ethereal plane (hence > the name). Some stronger concentrations, often called Ethereal Blue (for > its color; save at -6), will give the user hallucinations, much like the > user was actually seeing into the Ethereal Plane. Although there are no > known deaths to this drug, some abusers have been found viciously attacked > by several wild dogs (at least from the bite marks, as there has been no > witnesses). The euphoria lasts for one hour per ounce imbibed. > Mandragora Wine Although not made from Mandragora at all, local makers of > this drug used it for many years as a love potion. The local Makai in > Ierendi produce this drug from a local flower that only grows in their > climate (and apparently their islands, as nobody has yet been able to grow > this orchid outside of Ierendi). The euphoria from this drug heightens > the senses of touch, smell, and taste; not to mention the effects on one's > sexual drive. The euphoria lasts for 1d6+4 hours, and has no save to its > effects. This drug is only as addictive as to ones libido. A common side > effect is exhaustion and dehydration, this usually sets in in 1d4+8 hours > after drinking. While in this euphoria, it is common to forget about > drinking water and be more restful and less active, often contributing to > deaths. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 20:38:31 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Pachydermions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wizards Shopper wrote: > > what about naming their king "Babar"? > > just kidding... You shouldn't do it so lightly... you know, Mystaran races are full of these puns--think the Sherkasta or Simbasta ;) > Great creation, and i also agree they should be located in the Aryptian Savanah (or else in Skothar in the plains of Jen) So, we have the following ideas for Pachydermion location: Aryptian Savannah Plains of Jen Western Brun Myoshima (from the Patera Files, probably the highest concentration of Pachydermions; that's also why I'd go for smaller subraces--sort of Mystaran equivalent of the RW extinct dwarf elephants of Sicily). Let me add the following: Damocles (for my own purposes, with many subraces) Tangor region Hollow World (Shajapur, other tropical areas, subarctic and other cold regions for some subspecies as Mammoth or Mastodon/Oliphant) -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 22:16:18 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Agathokles Subject: Pachydermions, v2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is a second version of the Pachydermion. It is still shorter than the canon one, but I don't really want them to go beyond Large size. Also, I've added two new subraces (Aryptian and Sindhi). I need a couple bits of info from AC9, namely alignment and HD. By this description, the AC9 Pachydermion is an average of the two new breeds (the only ones common on Mystara Outer World). Thanks to Cobra CAO, Michael Diehm, Christopher Cherrington, Thibault Sarlat and all the others who contributed ideas to this work. Pachydermion ------------ Pachydermions are a race of large, heavy, elephant-like humanoids. They have gray skin, covered with patches of coarse gray hair. Pachydermions are mostly vegetarians, and only a few Maelephant-blooded can stand the taste of meat, or gain any nurture from it. While their powerful physiques allow them to become good warriors, most Pachydermions share a pacifistic philosophy. They become often priests or craftsmen. Due to their bulky body, to their clumsiness in moving, and to their lawful and good tendencies, they never become thieves. They make mediocre wizards or bards, too, as they have little magical talent. The Pachydermion societies are generally theocratic, though more primitive Pachydermion cultures exist, especially among tribes of Mammoth Pachydermions. The most common subrace takes from the common Elephant, and is less biased or specialized than the others. Its members are especially good at crafts and make powerful priests of lawful good Immortals. Maelephant-blooded Pachydermions are outstanding guardians. They make powerful warriors, but rarely choose different careers. They are extremely loyal, and never betray an employer. However, they are quite aggressive, and especially nasty, by Pachydemion standards (they are not evil, but they often walk quite near the border). Baku-blooded Pachydermions (if psionics are allowed) extremely powerful psionicists, and can be good priests too. They are among the less common subspecies, and are usually travellers, wandering alone or in small family groups. Holy Baku are very intelligent, and are the best Pachydermion wizards. Mammoth and Oliphant Pachydermions are stronger and tougher than their cousins, and also more aggressive. Mammoths are quite primitive, by Pachydermion standards, and live in subarctic regions, in small clans. Oliphants are the warriors and soldiers of the Pachydermion nations. They are more mercenary than most Pachydermions, with the exception of the Maelephant-blooded. Pachydermions with the blood of Hollyphants are a faery people, weaker and gentler than the other subspecies, but strong supporters of Good. Sindhi and Aryptian Pachydermions are the most common races on Mystara. They are large (especially the Aryptian breed), and have a nomadic culture. Sindhi Pachydermions still maintain some hidden cities, where they come back for great gatherings of their race. Both breeds are known for their great intelligence and wisdom, and for their great knowledge of history. This knowledge is always oral, and is teached to the youngs by the elders, so that it is preserved through the generations. Their memory is faultless, to the point that they never forget an experience or information. Therefore, they are sometimes sought to get information, but they require large payments to share it. Stat Min/Max Adj Str 11/18 +1 Int 3/17 Wis 6/18 +1 Dex 4/17 -2 Con 10/18 +1 Cha 3/18 -1 Alignment: any non-Evil, usually Lawful Racial Abilities: Pachydermions fall in the range of Large creatures, therefore they suffer damage from weapons as Large opponents. Prehensile trunk: can do simple to medium manipulation (can use a light weapon). Distance communication: through trumpeting and emitting low-frequency sounds, the Pachydermions are able to communicate at great distances, much like lupins using their howling ability. Infravision 60'. Extra Hit Points: A Pachydermion receives X extra hit points at first level (where X is the number of Hit Dice of the Pachydermion in AC9) Bloodline Freq. Align. Special Abilities Elephant 40% Any Bonus Skill: 1 craft skill at +2 Maelephant 6% LN +2 against surprise, can use Alarm spell 3/day Good Baku 8% NG Trumpet (as Rakasta Roar) vs Evil opponents Holy Baku 2% TN +1 Int Mammoth 10% CG/NG Bonus Skills: Survival (Subartic Plains), Orienteering Oliphant 8% LN/TN +1 Str, -1 Cha, can use tusks in combat for 2d4 damage Hollyphant 2% LG/NG +2 bonus to ST vs Poison, Cure Light Wounds 1/day, -2 Str, +2 Cha Aryptian 20% As AC9 Infallible Memory Sindhi 6% As AC9 Infallible Memory Classes & Level limits: Eleph. Maelep. G.Baku H. Baku Mammoth Oliph. Holly. Arypt. Sindhi Fighter 12** 15 10** 10** 12 U 8 12 10 Ranger 8 -- 12 12 14 8 -- 8 8 Paladin* 15 -- -- -- -- -- 12 -- -- Wizard 6 -- -- 12 4 4 8 12 12 Priest 15**** 10 15 15 12 8 15**** 12 15 Psionicist* 10 10*** U U 8*** 12*** 12 8 8 Bard***** 8 -- -- -- 6 4 -- 8 10 *These classes are optional. **Fighters with Defender kit can reach level 15 if Elephant, level 12 if Baku. ***Must choose Kinetic or Metabolic as primary discipline ****Unlimited advancement for LG Priests *****Pachydermion Bards use the Trader kit, so they cast priest spells; Sindhi Bards may use the Loremaster and Riddlemaster kits, and gain wizard spells Thief Skills Modifiers* >9' tall 9'+ tall Pick Pockets** -10% -15% Move Silently -15% -25% Hide in Shadows -10% -20% Climb Walls -15% -15% Detect Noise +10% +10% Read Languages +5% +5% *For Rangers and Bards **I doubt they can really pickpocket anyone shorter than 7'; the modifier is mostly there for use with other creatures of Large size, and for prestidigitation; Pachydermions can use their trunks in sleight of hand tricks, getting a +5% bonus. Height: 7' to 11' Weight: from 500 lbs for short females to up to 1000 lbs for a very large male specimen Eyes: usually dark (chestnut to black) Hair: short and coarse, various shades of gray, only for Mammoth and Oliphant. Hollyphant-blooded sport patches of light, golden fur on their chest and back. Others have a gray, leathery skin, with little, if any, body hair. Av. Ht. Climate Location Elephant 8' (Sub)Tropical Jungle Myoshima, Damocles Maelephant 9' Any Myoshima, Damocles Good Baku 8' Tropical Jungle Myoshima, Damocles Holy Baku 8' Tropical Jungle Myoshima, Sind, Skothar Mammoth 10' Subarctic Plains Myoshima, Damocles, Hollow World Oliphant 9' Temperate/Subarctic Plains Myoshima, Damocles, Hollow World Hollyphant 7' Any Temperate Myoshima, Sind, Skothar Aryptian 10' Savannah Aryptian Savannah Sindhi 8' (Sub)Tropical Jungle South-Western Brun, Sind, Skothar Skills available at standard cost even when out of class: Elephant, Maelephant, Good and Holy Baku, and Hollyphant: Religion, Ceremony, Reading/Writing. Mammoth, Oliphant: Blind-Fighting, Tracking, Survival. Aryptian, Sindhi: Ancient History, Local History, Sage Knowledge. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 13:45:06 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Pachydermions In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > More recently, ivory hunters have threatened the > elephant herds that they > protect. The ivory hunters are now the main concern > of the Pachydermions. an interesting note on this was a armourer I know was making a semi-historical crosbow (it looked authentic but had a fibreglass bow which he was covering with canvas as some historical bows were). Anyway he was saying that what he wanted was an wheel lock made of ivory, but was going to have to use brass (or maybe steel). The reason for this is that steel and brass can aparently damage the string and occasionaly cause it to snap. This is particually dangerous for crossbows as they are aimed like a gun and you then have a small string flying around at your neck height if it snaps. With crosbows being more and more popular in the known world this causld cause a much increased demand for ivory. It could even lend to a quest to create a magical crossbow. A particular type of ivory perhaps from a particular species, that is maybe now extint and the only place to find it is their ancient (& now lost) burial site. Suitibly protected of course. And of course when they return with their prize they discover that most of the ivory they bring back has crumbled to dust but was fine when they found it and as they left because the bones were protected by some ancient warding that prevented their decay. On leaving the area this decay accelerated, making up the lost milenia and so only some of the more recent specimines are good for crossbows. If they return for more have it that they awakined something powerful and it is now angry (you could have this anyway, it could hunt them down.... I just worked out how to kill some PC's that have just been begging for a beating *evil DM grin* ) Chris __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 14:31:40 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Pachydermions In-Reply-To: <3B530395.9040802@libero.it> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > This would mean a max strength of 24. AD&D maxes at > 25. So a strong Pachydermion would be as strong as > an average god's avatar, or a cloud giant. > I think I would rather raise the min strength to 12 > or 14, and have a +1 or +2 bonus. I think that they should be extremly strong. however perhaps this is limited to certain activities and by giving then natural attacks like a charge. even strong humans should be little match for them in actual strength. Having 12 or 14 as a minimum means that players can take this and run when the races tipical scores would be much higher. 24 as a max would be the biggest as strongest and should be extremely rare (as it would be). The differevce between a gods strength and their strength is the toughness. A god can simply beat up what it comes across and not worry about damage to his fists etc, and could lift a lot. They should be able to lift a lot but unless using weapons or tusks not be able to use their full strngth without induring themselves (which they might do when they are mad). maybe a rule like Pachydermions can lift/carry twice as much as a human of the same strength could (and use the same stat system with a min of 14 and a + 3 to their score) but their great strength in carrying does not translate into combat ecept when charging or when they are very mad (berserk) and are not concerned about themselves. Mad Pachydermions will always fight to the death. In these cases they roll double dice for damage with +3 to the strength modifier, but must make a saving throw or suffer d4+3 points of damage. If a Pachydermions is reduced to 0 hp in this way they are simply stuned and will colaspe unconcious or become unable to fight properly (losing their new strength bonus) and suffer -4 to hit. (DM's option depending on the situation. Smashing a tree, or wall in such a way could cause them to be K.O.ed, while induring themselves by punching someone/thing could cause them to flee) To act any other way when mad they must pass a Wisdom check at -5. Thoughts? Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 19:33:48 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Proposal for Regional Mystaran Feats Comments: To: Third Edition Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey, all- As part of the Isle of Dawn project that I've been working on (and = have to do a page update one of these days soon), I've been = considering the topic of Mystaran regional feats (a la those = presented in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting). I've been going back and forth on this one, and I finally think I've got = a = workable idea for how to accomodate all the little nuances of = Mystaran "character" in a regional format. There would be two types of feats to choose from (well, three, = counting the "general" feats given in the PHB). There would be = Regional feats, representing the national character of the area you = grew up in, and there would be Ethnic feats, representing your = cultural heritage (which in many cases is quite different from the = nationality you were raised in). There would be a selection of a couple of Regional feats to choose = from, and only one choice among the Ethnic feats. Characters would = designate their Ethnicity at creation, and could choose their Ethnic = feat at that time or any subsequent time, while the Regional feats = would follow the standard rules (choose a beginning region, can = add regions if you have at least 2 ranks in "knowledge (region)"). An example of what I am considering- Alfheim (region)- Feats: Treetopper, Forester. Erendyl Clan (ethnic)- Feat: Artisan Atruaghin Territories (region)- Feats: Survivor, Forester, Strong Soul. Horse Clan (ethnic)- Feat: Horse Nomad. These are just a couple of examples, for illustration's sake. This = allows us to distinguish between different cultural groups that = inhabit the same general geographical region. IE, a Traladaran = human and a Thyatian human from Karameikos wouldn't = necessarily have the same upbringing, even though they hail from = the same kingdom. Given that Mystara seems to have a greater degree of varying = cultural intermingling and makeup than does the Forgotten Realms = (at least insofar as I've seen...) I thought this idea might make for a = good compromise, without having too many "uber" regions to pick = from. The individual "ethnic" entries would be things introduced in = say, a gazetteer type of accessory, rather than "Mystara-General". = Of course, there are quite a few Ethnic groups that I've compiled thus = far (including tribes and clans of the major races), but I think it = makes for a nice added detail. Anyway, thoughts? ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=3D1 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 17:33:14 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [mystara3E] Proposal for Regional Mystaran Feats Comments: To: mystara3E@yahoogroups.com Comments: cc: Third Edition In-Reply-To: <20010716233348.4364.qmail@awcst094.netaddress.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Andrew: This is an interesting idea -- What it does is takes the concept of Regional feats one step further by providing a finer level of resolution for certain ethnic backgrounds. I'd even be tempted to remove the "racial regions" (gnome, elf, etc) and just rely on the "general region" feats for areas like Alfheim or Alfeisle and the "ethnic regions" for different elven clans. I do have some other comments -- see below. At 16:33 2001/07/16, Andrew Theisen wrote: >[snip] > >There would be two types of feats to choose from (well, three, >counting the "general" feats given in the PHB). There would be >Regional feats, representing the national character of the area you >grew up in, and there would be Ethnic feats, representing your >cultural heritage (which in many cases is quite different from the >nationality you were raised in). > >There would be a selection of a couple of Regional feats to choose >from, and only one choice among the Ethnic feats. Characters would >designate their Ethnicity at creation, and could choose their Ethnic >feat at that time or any subsequent time, while the Regional feats >would follow the standard rules (choose a beginning region, can >add regions if you have at least 2 ranks in "knowledge (region)"). > >[snip examples] > >Anyway, thoughts? I don't think it's necessary to restrict the ethnic feat to just one choice. I do believe that there shouldn't be that many feats for any given ethnicity. Some of the FR "regional" feats are restricted to being something that may be acquired only at first level. As far as categorizing things in this sort of an organization, I'd suggest that any appropriate feat could be assigned to a Regional or Ethnic group. If a player has access to something because it is a "regional" feat for them (based on where they grew up) then whatever the standard rules are would apply. On the other hand, any feat that was available only because of a character's Ethnicity/Race would be restricted to first level /for/ /that/ /character/. Other characters might have access to the same feat from their Region. And /any/ character can follow the rules about obtaining local knowledge for such a region to gain access to such a feat. Of course, nothing says that any given feat we create or "borrow" for use in Mystara couldn't be defined /only/ in Ethnic categories, in which case, no one could acquire such feats after first level (since you can't change your ethnicity). Hm. Well, it's definitely interesting. I think we'd have to give it some more thinking before we'd know for sure if the benefits to "flavour" would be worth the extra level of complexity we'd be adding to the idea of "regional feats" as developed for FR. jenni Jenni A. M. Merrifield -=> strawberryJAMM <=- strawberry @ jamm . com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:48:29 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Wizards Shopper Subject: More D&D ESDs Released MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Modules X3 thru X7 have just been released in ESD form from Wizards'. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:50:46 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: [mystara3E] Proposal for Regional Mystaran Feats Comments: To: mystara3E@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit First off, I see that this proposal was submitted to three mailing lists, of which I am only subscribed to two. I thus suspect that my reply may bounce from the "Third Edition" list, and even if it doesn't I will not see any replies sent only to that list. My assessment of your idea is this: Great general idea, but there are a few bugs in the details. I think your goal can be met with the following two minor tweaks to the general concept of regional feats: 1) Regions may be subdivided as desired, by ethnicity or any other appropriate criteria. A general set of features would apply to the overall region, while some more particular features might be limited to groups or sub-regions within the larger region. As one example, my "Ylaruam" region was further broken down by religious faction (since ethnicity in that region is largely irrelevant), with one regional feat each reserved to the "Kin" and "Preceptor" factions. Any feats that require a particular upbringing for a character should be described as being available only to 1st level characters -- only if you come up with feats that have that requirement in some regions but not in others would we need to revisit the treatment of ethnic groups or sub-regions. 2) The Known World contains many cultural groups who retain allegiance to their original homelands several generations after emigrating from said homeland. For such characters, we will want to develop some "expatriate" regions that account for the divided backgrounds of such characters. As an example, I will present a "Rockhome expatriate" region as it might be applied to an Ylari dwarf: Regional races: Rockborn dwarf only Regional classes: Fighter or Fighter/Rogue. Regional faith/Immortal: Kagyar. Arcane spell restrictions: Given that dwarves of this region have no access to arcane spellcasting classes, this section is mostly irrelevant -- but if it were, characters with this region would observe the most restrictive limits between the two regions. Automatic languages: Dengar (Rockhome Dwarven) plus automatic languages of home region. In the case of an Ylari dwarf, Alasiyan and Thyatian would be additional automatic languages. Bonus languages: Gnome, local goblinoid languages, and all bonus languages of home region. Regional feats: List would be created especially for this region. A Rockhome expatriate would not have access to Ylari regional feats. Regional equipment: List would be created especially for this region. A Rockhome expatriate would not have access to Ylari regional equipment. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:27:56 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Proposal for Regional Mystaran Feats MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have adopted this point of view for my game. I will be placing some Mystara stuff of this nature on my site within the next couple of weeks. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Theisen" To: Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 6:33 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] Proposal for Regional Mystaran Feats Hey, all- As part of the Isle of Dawn project that I've been working on (and have to do a page update one of these days soon), I've been considering the topic of Mystaran regional feats (a la those presented in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting). I've been going back and forth on this one, and I finally think I've got a workable idea for how to accomodate all the little nuances of Mystaran "character" in a regional format. There would be two types of feats to choose from (well, three, counting the "general" feats given in the PHB). There would be Regional feats, representing the national character of the area you grew up in, and there would be Ethnic feats, representing your cultural heritage (which in many cases is quite different from the nationality you were raised in). There would be a selection of a couple of Regional feats to choose from, and only one choice among the Ethnic feats. Characters would designate their Ethnicity at creation, and could choose their Ethnic feat at that time or any subsequent time, while the Regional feats would follow the standard rules (choose a beginning region, can add regions if you have at least 2 ranks in "knowledge (region)"). An example of what I am considering- Alfheim (region)- Feats: Treetopper, Forester. Erendyl Clan (ethnic)- Feat: Artisan Atruaghin Territories (region)- Feats: Survivor, Forester, Strong Soul. Horse Clan (ethnic)- Feat: Horse Nomad. These are just a couple of examples, for illustration's sake. This allows us to distinguish between different cultural groups that inhabit the same general geographical region. IE, a Traladaran human and a Thyatian human from Karameikos wouldn't necessarily have the same upbringing, even though they hail from the same kingdom. Given that Mystara seems to have a greater degree of varying cultural intermingling and makeup than does the Forgotten Realms (at least insofar as I've seen...) I thought this idea might make for a good compromise, without having too many "uber" regions to pick from. The individual "ethnic" entries would be things introduced in say, a gazetteer type of accessory, rather than "Mystara-General". Of course, there are quite a few Ethnic groups that I've compiled thus far (including tribes and clans of the major races), but I think it makes for a nice added detail. Anyway, thoughts? ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 19:45:42 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: strawberryJAMM Subject: Re: More D&D ESDs Released In-Reply-To: <11d.1bfc123.2884f36d@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 18:48 2001/07/16, Wizards Shopper wrote: >Modules X3 thru X7 have just been released in ESD form from Wizards'. Whoohoo!!! And just in time for my move to the USA![*] :-D Jenni: [*] Don't recall if I mentioned this -- the company I work for, NCompass Labs, was bought out by Microsoft in May. The development team (which includes User Interaction Designers) is being relocated to the Redmond, WA area (which, for those unfamiliar with Redmond, is just east of Seattle, on the "other" side of Lake Washington). I'm moving down August 1st. =JAMM Jenni A. M. Merrifield -=> strawberryJAMM <=- Benevolent Despot of the Mystara 3E Project M3E Project: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mystara3E ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:36:47 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: [mystara3E] Proposal for Regional Mystaran Feats In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010716170751.00aa3d20@jamm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:33 PM 7/16/01 -0700, Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: >Andrew: > > This is an interesting idea -- What it does is takes the concept of >Regional feats one step further by providing a finer level of resolution >for certain ethnic backgrounds. I'd even be tempted to remove the "racial >regions" (gnome, elf, etc) and just rely on the "general region" feats for >areas like Alfheim or Alfeisle and the "ethnic regions" for different elven >clans. Absolutely- I can't stand the idea of subraces, myself. Part of the reason I came up with the concept. :) > I don't think it's necessary to restrict the ethnic feat to just one >choice. I do believe that there shouldn't be that many feats for any given >ethnicity. I cut it down to one simply to reduce the load, as it were. There are a lot of ethnic possibilities, as I'm discovering... > Hm. Well, it's definitely interesting. I think we'd have to give it >some more thinking before we'd know for sure if the benefits to "flavour" >would be worth the extra level of complexity we'd be adding to the idea of >"regional feats" as developed for FR. Yeah... I've been going back and forth on the idea for a couple of weeks now, and wanted to wait until I had it a bit more refined before posting, but I just can't seem to make up my mind. Thought I'd get some feedback. :) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:43:27 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: [mystara3E] Proposal for Regional Mystaran Feats In-Reply-To: <008701c10e65$94432a40$1ba61a26@q6s7w2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:50 PM 7/16/01 -0400, David Knott wrote: >First off, I see that this proposal was submitted to three mailing lists, >of which I am only subscribed to two. I thus suspect that my reply >may bounce from the "Third Edition" list, and even if it doesn't I will >not see any replies sent only to that list. I only sent it to two lists- the MML and the 3E list. Don't know where a third one popped up if it did... >1) Regions may be subdivided as desired, by ethnicity or any other >appropriate criteria. A general set of features would apply to the >overall region, while some more particular features might be limited >to groups or sub-regions within the larger region. As one example, >my "Ylaruam" region was further broken down by religious faction >(since ethnicity in that region is largely irrelevant), with one regional >feat each reserved to the "Kin" and "Preceptor" factions. Any feats >that require a particular upbringing for a character should be described >as being available only to 1st level characters -- only if you come up >with feats that have that requirement in some regions but not in others >would we need to revisit the treatment of ethnic groups or sub-regions. This is something I was originally considering, but I found it to be a bit more complicated than just having Regional and Ethnic feat lists. The Ethnicity would be chosen at first level and wouldn't (obviously) change, while one Region would be chosen at 1st level, but could be chosen from if the requirement was met (ie, 2 ranks in Knowledge (local)). This also raises the possibility of having characters of an ethnicity not necessarily preferred for a region (ie, a character of Traladaran ancestry who was raised in Ylaruam... maybe his parents migrated there or something.) Such "non-preferred" ethnicities wouldn't get the same benefits as preferred ones (likely better equipment, a la FRCS). >2) The Known World contains many cultural groups who retain >allegiance to their original homelands several generations after >emigrating from said homeland. For such characters, we will want >to develop some "expatriate" regions that account for the divided >backgrounds of such characters. As an example, I will present a >"Rockhome expatriate" region as it might be applied to an Ylari >dwarf: > >Regional races: Rockborn dwarf only > >Regional classes: Fighter or Fighter/Rogue. > >Regional faith/Immortal: Kagyar. > >Arcane spell restrictions: Given that dwarves of this region have no >access to arcane spellcasting classes, this section is mostly irrelevant >-- but if it were, characters with this region would observe the most >restrictive limits between the two regions. > >Automatic languages: Dengar (Rockhome Dwarven) plus automatic >languages of home region. In the case of an Ylari dwarf, Alasiyan and >Thyatian would be additional automatic languages. > >Bonus languages: Gnome, local goblinoid languages, and all bonus >languages of home region. > >Regional feats: List would be created especially for this region. >A Rockhome expatriate would not have access to Ylari regional >feats. > >Regional equipment: List would be created especially for this region. >A Rockhome expatriate would not have access to Ylari regional >equipment. See above. With my method, you'd simply have REGION: Ylaruam, ETHNICITY: Torkrest Clan (for example). Since Torkrest clan isn't a preferred ethnicity for Ylaruam (which would have something like, Alasiyan, Makistani, Nithian, Alphatian, Thyatian), he wouldn't get to choose the "best" equipment package for the region (if using the a, b, c sort of chart listed in FRCS). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 01:00:41 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: FW: RE: [MYSTARA] Zzonga, drugs, etc? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So, Shire Blue = M-Marijuana Ethereal Brandy = M-LSD Mandragora Wine = M-Ecstasy At least that's my take on it... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Cherrington" To: Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 12:22 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] FW: RE: [MYSTARA] Zzonga, drugs, etc? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Mike Harvey [mailto:gm@DSL-ONLY.NET] > > > > > > > > What other drugs exist in Mystara? Any rules for these? > > > Anything cool > > > > you've made up? > > > > > > > Other addictive drugs (IMC)... > > > > > Ethereal Brandy This very addictive liqueur is quite possibly the first > > to be banned from the markets in Darokin. This brandy made from a > > mushroom and honey wine, (originally brought in by dwarves) was first > > created by several Darokin merchants that wanted to concentrate the stuff > > to then reconstitute and sell at market. When in its concentrated > > formula, the drinker must make a saving throw vs spells at -3, or become > > hopelessly addicted to the euphoric effects. The euphoria gives a sense > > of lightness and slow motion, as if he was on the Ethereal plane (hence > > the name). Some stronger concentrations, often called Ethereal Blue (for > > its color; save at -6), will give the user hallucinations, much like the > > user was actually seeing into the Ethereal Plane. Although there are no > > known deaths to this drug, some abusers have been found viciously attacked > > by several wild dogs (at least from the bite marks, as there has been no > > witnesses). The euphoria lasts for one hour per ounce imbibed. > > Mandragora Wine Although not made from Mandragora at all, local makers of > > this drug used it for many years as a love potion. The local Makai in > > Ierendi produce this drug from a local flower that only grows in their > > climate (and apparently their islands, as nobody has yet been able to grow > > this orchid outside of Ierendi). The euphoria from this drug heightens > > the senses of touch, smell, and taste; not to mention the effects on one's > > sexual drive. The euphoria lasts for 1d6+4 hours, and has no save to its > > effects. This drug is only as addictive as to ones libido. A common side > > effect is exhaustion and dehydration, this usually sets in in 1d4+8 hours > > after drinking. While in this euphoria, it is common to forget about > > drinking water and be more restful and less active, often contributing to > > deaths. > > > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 08:55:53 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Pachydermions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Furneaux wrote: > > I think that they should be extremly strong. however > perhaps this is limited to certain activities and by > giving then natural attacks like a charge. even strong > humans should be little match for them in actual > strength. Having 12 or 14 as a minimum means that > players can take this and run when the races tipical > scores would be much higher. > 24 as a max would be the biggest as strongest and > should be extremely rare (as it would be). The > differevce between a gods strength and their strength > is the toughness. As I said, strength scores that high are also those of Giants (which are non-magic creatures, much larger than Pachydermions). Pachydermions are Large size creatures (in the 7'-12' range), so the standard (AD&D) rules would give them a min 11 score, and +1. The strongest subrace also receives an additional +1, giving them very powerful physiques. From a balance POW, were I to give them a, say, +3 bonus to Str, I'd have to add heavy penalties to other scores. Considering that Pachydermions are supposed to be highly intelligent and wise, and that a creature of Large size rarely has a low constitution score (and it doesn't seem the case of the Pachydermion), all the penalty would go to Charisma and Dexterity. > maybe a rule like Pachydermions can lift/carry twice > as much as a human of the same strength could (and use > the same stat system with a min of 14 and a + 3 to > their score) but their great strength in carrying does This is an interesting possibility, indeed. > not translate into combat ecept when charging or when > they are very mad (berserk) and are not concerned > about themselves. Mad Pachydermions will always fight > to the death. When would Pachydermions go berserk? Would it happen only to some individuals (ex. males), or would it be a general characteristic of the species? -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 08:57:27 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Wizards Shopper Subject: TSR have d&d modules available!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello i just got a mail from TSR online which says that some ld modules ar= e now available for download (for a small fee of course...) I've seen X1, X2, X3 and they say X4 and 5... http://store.wizards.com/category.asp?CategoryID=3D153 i wish you good luck. thib Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177 homepage www.mystara.fr.st join me at thibsylv=40club-internet.fr or at clenarius=40hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 10:23:27 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Caroletti Subject: Re: More D&D ESDs Released MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > At 18:48 2001/07/16, Wizards Shopper wrote: > >Modules X3 thru X7 have just been released in ESD form from Wizards'. > "Shipping is not covered in the following areas: Empire of Thyatis, Northern Reaches, Savage Coast, Ylaruam, Ethengar." *Grin* Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 10:42:17 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Wizards Shopper Subject: adri varma map!!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I haven't got any feedback about the new map i released on sunday...Does s= omeone else care??? If you want me to modify the map, just tell me where and what.Or send me b= ack the map with corrections over in red... thib www.mystara.fr.st Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177 homepage www.mystara.fr.st join me at thibsylv=40club-internet.fr or at clenarius=40hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 08:13:25 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Brad Fonseca Subject: Re: OD&DITIES Issue 4 In-Reply-To: <001c01c10cea$96a59880$315287d9@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just to help everyone out, I'm posting a link people can click on: http://www.tongue.fsnet.co.uk/ I hope this helps. Great site, Mr. Tongue! Brad:) "It is a pain in the ass waiting around for someone to try to kill you." --Merlin, son of Corwin, as quoted in 'Trumps of Doom' -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Richard Tongue Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 11:57 PM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: [MYSTARA] OD&DITIES Issue 4 OD&DITIES Issue 4 is now up! Three times normal size, the fanzine dedicated to OD&D features articles on character classes such as the Necromancer, and rules for Psionics in OD&D> It can be found at www. tongue. fsnet. co. uk do not include spaces ). Enjoy! Richard Tongue ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 09:21:29 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: FW: RE: [MYSTARA] Zzonga, drugs, etc? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Eustace [mailto:deustace@MEDIAONE.NET] > > So, Shire Blue = M-Marijuana > Ethereal Brandy = M-LSD > Mandragora Wine = M-Ecstasy > > At least that's my take on it... > err... Pixie Wine = M-PCP or Mad Dog 20/20 {{please note: I absolutely do not endorse any use of these items in the RW, I buried 7 of my high school friends from their usage (those that survived, stayed in prison)}} ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 10:45:38 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Multizar the Mage Subject: Re: adri varma map!!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >I haven't got any feedback about the new map i released on >sunday...Does someone else care??? >If you want me to modify the map, just tell me where and what.Or send me > back the map with corrections over in red... >thib Sorry about that, I went and copied your map into my Maps of Mystara folder and forgot to post :-) I liked your take on the region in 24 miles/hex and am equally happy with the 8 miles/hex version. I have already made a copy of your map and am incorporating the area into my campaign. IMC the current year is AC:1285 so there are changes in political borders and the like. Thank You for a well made map! Multizar the Mage Mystara Map Junkie ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:39:50 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Roger WINTER Subject: Eye of Traldar & The Dymrak Dread Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable These two introductory OD&D modules, DDA3 & 4, are supposedly linked, but = on reading them I cannot find the connection. DDA3 says DDA4 will have further information on the Eye of Traldar, but it = isn't there. Indeed, DDA4 is very light on detail of anything. I suspect = that the detail was dropped to allow for the stand up characters and map. Has anyone done any work on this area of Karameikos which I might be able = to drop into these two to flesh them out a bit? Hammer of Ulric ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 11:10:59 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: More D&D ESDs Released MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Caroletti [mailto:scarole@TIN.IT] > > > At 18:48 2001/07/16, Wizards Shopper wrote: > > >Modules X3 thru X7 have just been released in ESD form > from Wizards'. > > > > "Shipping is not covered in the following areas: > Empire of Thyatis, Northern Reaches, Savage Coast, Ylaruam, Ethengar." > *Grin* > > Iulius Sergius Scaevola > Captain of the XXth Cohort > Port Lucinius, Thyatis > Got to love those Darokin Merchants, they won't apply taxes to outside countries, but we won't ship out our luxury goods either. I believe it runs along the lines 'if you build it, they will come'. (I believe our exporters are being paid of by those touristy merchants and inn keepers!) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 11:37:17 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: adri varma map!!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Wizards Shopper [mailto:thibsylv@CLUB-INTERNET.FR] > > I haven't got any feedback about the new map i released on > sunday...Does someone else care??? > If you want me to modify the map, just tell me where and > what.Or send me back the map with corrections over in red... > > thib > Sorry, I am stuck at Boy Scout camp for the next week (as Scout Master, for 124 boys) but it is a great map! Can't wait to place the Azcan Temple, and Ogrhiz on the map. Now I just need a laptop and cellular modem to keep up to date on all my email... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 11:55:57 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Mystaran Boy Scouts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Has anyone toyed with this idea? Of Boy Scouts in Mystara? It would be in or near a heavily forested land. Each dominion would be ruled by an appointed Ranger from a council of Bards and Rangers. Every citizen would be required to train for 5 years by several Bards & Rangers in Patrols, then volunteer as Councilors or leaders for 2 or more years. Men & women would be given equal treatment, unless you want Mystaran Girl Scout cookies. ;) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 12:13:59 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Mystaran Boy Scouts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Possibly we can place them in the wildlands north of Adri-Varma. They would be a nation that disposed an older elven nation (now extinct or intermarried completely into the human blood line). They would be reverent, but not worship any particular immortal in general. We could start a new class, The Scout. Having the Knowledge, Storytelling, and Singing abilities of Bards, and the Woodsman, Hunting, Nature Lore of Rangers. They would have a type of totemic belief, but with no real spells or magic. They would rely on their knowledge of nature and survival. Their history would have a chaotic start by decimating the older elves, then in a turn around to become civilized, adopt allot of perceived elven beliefs and lore (as there would be no elves to tell what is myth and what is real). For 3E, a good prestige class would be The Order of the Arrow (I don't know of a great many prestige classes for Rangers). This class would be reserved for a secret society within the nation of Rangers that truly exemplifies all aspects of survival, hunting, ecology, et. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 10:45:29 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Mystaran Boy Scouts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> Has anyone toyed with this idea? Of Boy Scouts in Mystara? << Yeah... don't they call them the DDC?? ;P __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 13:50:14 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Eye of Traldar & The Dymrak Dread MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" B10 Night's Dark Terror This is probably the best well thought out adventure module. Most of Karameikos was designed based on this module (Traldar, Hutaka, Dymrak, Lake of Lost Dreams, Iron Ring, et.) Use Eye of Traldar as a back drop to introduce the party into B10's plot line. B10 also goes into the different tribes of goblins in the Dymrak, and their leaders. > -----Original Message----- > From: Roger WINTER [mailto:RWINTER@ACAS.ORG.UK] > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 10:40 AM > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: [MYSTARA] Eye of Traldar & The Dymrak Dread > > > These two introductory OD&D modules, DDA3 & 4, are supposedly > linked, but on reading them I cannot find the connection. > > DDA3 says DDA4 will have further information on the Eye of > Traldar, but it isn't there. Indeed, DDA4 is very light on > detail of anything. I suspect that the detail was dropped to > allow for the stand up characters and map. > > Has anyone done any work on this area of Karameikos which I > might be able to drop into these two to flesh them out a bit? > > Hammer of Ulric > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 14:32:00 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Mystaran Boy Scouts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: John Calvin [mailto:chimpman.geo@YAHOO.COM] > >> > Has anyone toyed with this idea? Of Boy Scouts in Mystara? > << > > Yeah... don't they call them the DDC?? ;P > Darokin Diplomatic Corps? They are nothing but eyes, ears, and invisible hands for the Darokin Merchants Guild. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:19:55 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "Shawn J." Subject: Re: Eye of Traldar & The Dymrak Dread MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/17/01 11:26:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, RWINTER@ACAS.ORG.UK writes: > These two introductory OD&D modules, DDA3 & 4, are supposedly linked, but on > reading them I cannot find the connection. They are not, I wasn't happy when I first bought DDA3 because that was the sole reason for the purchase. > > DDA3 says DDA4 will have further information on the Eye of Traldar, but it > isn't there. Indeed, DDA4 is very light on detail of anything. I suspect that > the detail was dropped to allow for the stand up characters and map. > > Has anyone done any work on this area of Karameikos which I might be able to > drop into these two to flesh them out a bit? I used it as a side adventure when my PCs returned the Eye of Traldar to the Lake of Lost Souls/Dreams. I placed an ancient temple there, with a dark past. I'll have to save the details until I can one day write it up though. ;^) As for DDA3, I had the goblins capture them. The PCs then meet a prisoner (the elf) who tells them there's an exit through the caverns below. The orcs will discover the PCs escaping, but are afraid to journey into the area below because of the fearsome ghost they've seen there. Once outside, the PCs can dodge, fight or be chased by goblin patrols until they make it across the river (those lands are patroled by the elves). But if your group already relinquished the Eye, the whole concept is moot anyway. --- Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 13:54:46 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Eye of Traldar & The Dymrak Dread In-Reply-To: <45.93950bb.2885e9db@cs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > on reading them I cannot find the connection. > > They are not, I wasn't happy when I first bought > DDA3 because that was > the sole reason for the purchase. Well that makes me somewhat releived (although also annoyed once more I don't have B10, odd that both B10 and X10 are reputably so good). I could have bought DDA4 at the local second hand book store a couple of weeks back, and decided against it because I heard it was not so good. I just finished running through DDA3 and went back to see what DDA4 said exactly and it was gone. So it appears that I have some compitition here in Wellington NZ for old Mystara stuff. > > I suspect > that the detail was dropped to allow for the stand > > up characters and map. That is the worst excuse for leaving out detail I have heard yet. > > Has anyone done any work on this area of > > Karameikos which I might be able > > to drop into these two to flesh them out a bit? Well I havent as yet done anything but I am intending to, so if you wanted we could combine efforts > As for DDA3, I had the goblins capture them. > The PCs then meet a did you mean DDA4? or how you finished DDA3? Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 20:59:13 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Gilles Leblanc Subject: Re: adri varma map!!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >I haven't got any feedback about the new map i released on sunday...Does >someone else care??? >If you want me to modify the map, just tell me where and what.Or send me >back the map with corrections over in red... > >thib > Sorry I havent checked my email very much lately I have been busy with other things. The map is great, but before asking for modifications I think me and Christopher should agree to where all the things we both created should be placed. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 01:41:09 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Eye of Traldar & The Dymrak Dread In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Roger, your call for help has been heard...read below! --- Roger WINTER wrote: two introductory OD&D modules, DDA3 & 4, are > supposedly linked, but on reading them I cannot find > the connection. I dont have DDA4, but I've been asking about it in here so much I have a general idea what the module is about. Apparently, the group, having acquired the Eye of Traldar are to take it to the Seer at the Lake of Lost Souls/Dreams. To get there they have to travel through the Dymrak Forest, which is what DDA4 is all about, right? I think youre right about the fact that the tie in details and the information on the Eye were left out to get in some other useless stuff. :( > Has anyone done any work on this area of Karameikos > which I might be able to drop into these two to > flesh them out a bit? I have tons of stuff! I have detailed the Seer, the Eye of Traldar, the lands surrounding the Dymrak forest and more! Right now I'm working on an article on the Goblins of Dymrak. I can post a preliminary version of it on the list tomorrow if youre interested. Below are some articles that ive written about Karameikos so far: About the Seer: http://dnd.starflung.com/seerlake.html About Dymrak and the witches who live there: http://dnd.starflung.com/witchdym.html These two are about the Radlebb woods, but are connected with the others and also include some information on the Eye of Traldar and its twin... http://dnd.starflung.com/greymnt.html http://dnd.starflung.com/witchrad.html I also have more iformation, but it hasnt been written into articles yet... Hope this helps! H�vard ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 17:23:21 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: Eye of Traldar & The Dymrak Dread On Wed, 18 Jul 2001 01:41:09 +0200, =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= wrote: >Roger, your call for help has been heard...read below! > >--- Roger WINTER wrote: (snip) > >> Has anyone done any work on this area of Karameikos >> which I might be able to drop into these two to >> flesh them out a bit? > >I have tons of stuff! >I have detailed the Seer, the Eye of Traldar, the >lands surrounding the Dymrak forest and more! Right >now I'm working on an article on the Goblins of >Dymrak. I can post a preliminary version of it on the >list tomorrow if youre interested. > I'd like to see that when you're done. My group has just reached the summer of 1008, and they just helped the Alfheim elves fleeing south to get into Karameikos. The elves have then been given land in what is now occupied by the Dymrak goblins, and one of the PCs wants to learn elvish bow mastery from the Alfheim elves, and I need to have him do them a favor in return, so this information could be really useful to me once you're done (it's not something I really need now since they're on another adventure now, but if you'll post some stuff anyway, it might be interesting...) >Below are some articles that ive written about >Karameikos so far: >About the Seer: >http://dnd.starflung.com/seerlake.html >About Dymrak and the witches who live there: >http://dnd.starflung.com/witchdym.html > >These two are about the Radlebb woods, but are >connected with the others and also include some >information on the Eye of Traldar and its twin... >http://dnd.starflung.com/greymnt.html >http://dnd.starflung.com/witchrad.html > The latter sounds really useful to my campaign. I'll check it out. Thanks for the link. (snip rest) Oh btw, don't forget about the green dragon Argos that lives in/under the Lake of Dreams! This was mentioned in an article by Bruce Heard in Dragon no. 171, but it's available at Shawn's site: It has no direct bearing on any of those adventures, but it's nice background (or so I always thought IMC) and might be useful if the group travels close to the Lake... - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 17:29:21 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: More D&D ESDs Released On Tue, 17 Jul 2001 10:23:27 +0200, Caroletti wrote: >> At 18:48 2001/07/16, Wizards Shopper wrote: >> >Modules X3 thru X7 have just been released in ESD form from Wizards'. >> > >"Shipping is not covered in the following areas: >Empire of Thyatis, Northern Reaches, Savage Coast, Ylaruam, Ethengar." > *Grin* > Yeah... I'd laugh, only I'm still so disappointed over it... :( - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 20:22:35 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: M Novy Subject: Re: Proposal for Regional Mystaran Feats Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed you should check out Estlo's webpage for some help. www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/6011 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 18:48:34 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Eye of Traldar & The Dymrak Dread In-Reply-To: <20010717234109.14333.qmail@web13105.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > I have tons of stuff! > I have detailed the Seer, the Eye of Traldar, the > lands surrounding the Dymrak forest and more! Right > now I'm working on an article on the Goblins of > Dymrak. I can post a preliminary version of it on > the > list tomorrow if youre interested. Well I don't know about Roger, but I am very interested, as I intend to have to write/convert/etc something now the PC's have the eye of Traldar. If you could tell me some more about your ideas, then I can possibly include some of your ideas in whatever I write. > Below are some articles that ive written about > Karameikos so far: > About the Seer: > http://dnd.starflung.com/seerlake.html > About Dymrak and the witches who live there: > http://dnd.starflung.com/witchdym.html I found these earlier, and they were an interesting read. I think I'm going to have to find out more about the iron ring at some stage too. DDA3 is the first I have really encountered of them. Is there much in Gaz1? Anyone had some real fun with them? Chris. P.S. The The Witches of Radlebb http://dnd.starflung.com/witchrad.html has a typo where it says "The witches wowed revenge" in case someone wants to fix it to vowed. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 19:20:23 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: More D&D ESDs Released In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- The Stalker wrote: > On Tue, 17 Jul 2001 10:23:27 +0200, Caroletti > wrote: > > >> At 18:48 2001/07/16, Wizards Shopper wrote: > >> >Modules X3 thru X7 have just been released in > ESD form from Wizards'. > >> > > > >"Shipping is not covered in the following areas: > >Empire of Thyatis, Northern Reaches, Savage Coast, > Ylaruam, Ethengar." > > *Grin* > > > > Yeah... I'd laugh, only I'm still so disappointed > over it... :( Which is why I really want to find a way to annoy PC's with it. Oh you want to go to thyatis. Oh, well none of the ships here will go within 200 miles of that, and theres a 900% markup if we don't ship it. I don't think it'll quite work though. Perhaps something like "oh we can't import that to Thyatis, it's illegal there." for some rare magic component. If the PC's decide they'll go get it from the surplier have the surplier say: "Oh, I'm sorry, we torched all our excess stock because there wasn't enough demand for it. We arn't getting any more." Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 19:28:26 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: Eye of Traldar & The Dymrak Dread On Tue, 17 Jul 2001 18:48:34 -0700, Chris Furneaux wrote: (snip) > I think I'm going to have to find out more about >the iron ring at some stage too. It's a nasty ring of merciless slaver who operates all over Karameikos. They used to have their secret headquarters in the Black Eagle Barony (Ludwig von Hendriks and Bargle both being important members), and still will be if your campaign is before the Black Eagle was kicked out in AC 1010. Slavery is outlawed in Karameikos, but then that just makes is very profitable. > DDA3 is the first I >have really encountered of them. Is there much in >Gaz1? Sure. And that is mostly repeated in the Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure boxed set, too. The are also the major villains in B10: Night's Dark Terror (which I consider among the best adventures ever written for *any* RPG!). They are also mentioned several times in B6: The Veiled Society, IIRC, as they are one of the three major thieves guilds in Karameikos (and the worst one!). The two others are the Veiled Society (a sort of mafia-like organization in Specularum, which extorts business-men and so) and the Kingdom of Thieves (also in Specularum, but this is the 'good' thieves guild, and exists primarily to fence stolen goods). George Hrabovsky has written a bit on the Iron Ring and the other guilds, which can be found on Shawn Stanley's site (though I'm not sure how much of this is official stuff... I don't remember reading about the Scarlet Slayers before, for instance, but maybe George can tell us): Iron Ring: Veiled Society: Kingdom of Thieves: > Anyone had some real fun with them? > Of course, the Iron Ring are wonderful enemies. Since they are slavers who capture the innocent and then ship them off to faraway lands, they operate pretty much all over Karameikos, so you can put them wherever you like. And since they're divided into an cell-like structure, members your PCs catch cannot reveal much about the organization because they were never allowed to know in the first place in case of capture. However, opposing the Iron Ring usually puts a mark on adventurers, so once the PCs cross their path, the Ring is likely to become a major villain from that point on, which is as it should be! ;) Since I have both Gaz 1 and K:KoA (and a version of B6 in the B1-9 book), I can tell you about the ring. What do you need to know? - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 21:49:46 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Iron ring and slaves (was: Eye of Traldar & The Dymrak Dread) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > It's a nasty ring of merciless slaver who operates > all over Karameikos. > They used to have their secret headquarters in the > Black Eagle Barony > (Ludwig von Hendriks and Bargle both being important > members), and still > will be if your campaign is before the Black Eagle > was kicked out in AC > 1010. Pretty much had that sussed, and at 985AC thats no problem. events of WotI don't even kick in for 20 years. I have to bide my time to use WotI > Slavery is outlawed in Karameikos, but then > that just makes is very > profitable. Well yes and no... yes cause theres no competition and no cause theres no local demand. Is there anyone in Karameikos that keeps slaves ? (other then the black eagle) and thus could be a market (or Villan) > boxed set, too. The are also the major villains in > B10: Night's Dark Terror What do they do/who are they? What actually happens in B10 - other then it being so damn good. > They are also mentioned several times in B6: The > Veiled Society, maybe I should've got it when I had the chance.... is it any good. > George Hrabovsky has written a bit on the Iron Ring > and the other guilds, > which can be found on Shawn Stanley's site (though > I'm not sure how much of > this is official stuff... I don't remember reading > about the Scarlet > Slayers before, for instance, but maybe George can > tell us): Thanks for the links they were quite helpful. Are George's write ups fairly similar to the ones in B10/B6/GAZ1 ? > Of course, the Iron Ring are wonderful enemies. > Since they are slavers who > capture the innocent and then ship them off to > faraway lands, well I have a PC who is trying to get enough slaves to build a kingdom in norwold by setting them free on the condition that they stay his subjects. He is more then fair as a ruler. So on one hand while he is against slavery, he wants to buy slaves thus creating a demand for slaves. Maybe I should send a slaveing expidition from thyatis (where he bought some slaves) or alphiatia to his dominion in norwold. Anyone have any ideas about how many slaves you could actually buy over a week in particular cities? > Since I have both Gaz 1 and K:KoA (and a version of > B6 in the B1-9 book), I > can tell you about the ring. What do you need to > know? Well I am particually interested in major personalities, it's actual size (how many people do they capture, how many men are involved, part time or full time [is this detailed] etc..) does gaz1 or KKoA have any sergested plots, and just general things about the way in which they operate (how do they collect infomation [raids, spies, casual informants, etc.] Things I can throw at my PC's and reasons that they won't turn around and buy slaves from them. (or propogate an Ankh-Morpork [Terry Pratchet] type arangement where they just pay them to go somewhere else :p ) Thanks for the replys. Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 00:58:57 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: [mystara3E] Proposal for Regional Mystaran Feats Comments: To: mystara3E@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Andrew Theisen" > > This is something I was originally considering, but I found it to be a bit > more complicated than just having Regional and Ethnic feat lists. The > Ethnicity would be chosen at first level and wouldn't (obviously) change, > while one Region would be chosen at 1st level, but could be chosen from if > the requirement was met (ie, 2 ranks in Knowledge (local)). > > This also raises the possibility of having characters of an ethnicity not > necessarily preferred for a region (ie, a character of Traladaran ancestry > who was raised in Ylaruam... maybe his parents migrated there or > something.) Such "non-preferred" ethnicities wouldn't get the same benefits > as preferred ones (likely better equipment, a la FRCS). Ylaruam is actually an example of a culture in which ethnicity is irrelevant -- if you grew up in Ylaruam as a faithful follower of the faith of Eternal Truth and did not seek to retain any advantages from your non-Ylari ancestry, then you are fully a member of that region. In the case of a Traladaran raised in Ylaruam, he would have to choose between the Ylaruam region (for whichever faction he selects) or the Karameikos/ Traladaran region. As long as he does not try to claim Halav, Petra, or Zirchev as his patron Immortal or learn Traladaran as a bonus language, he would be fully equal to Ylari of pure Alasiyan ancestry. In other regions, precise ethnicity might make a bigger difference, even to the point of precluding characters from the "wrong" ethnic backgrounds from ever becoming part of certain cultures. Jenni's suggestion about normal regional feats vs. those that can only be taken at first level should cover subdivisions of the standard regions -- any feat that requires upbringing in a particular culture should be described as being available only to 1st level characters, while feats that might be made available to characters who (for example) are adopted into a particular Alfheim clan would need no such restriction. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 01:21:25 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Proposal for Regional Mystaran Feats Comments: To: mystara3E@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "M Novy" > you should check out Estlo's webpage for some help. > www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/6011 I am already familiar with that site. The first time I checked it out, it seemed totally worthless -- but this time around I see that he has done more than enough work to warrant some specific critiques for the areas that don't seem to work. Is Estlo on the Mystara3E list? If not, he should definitely consider joining it, as he clearly has created enough conversion material to have a vested interest in the direction of that project. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 01:37:01 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Iron ring and slaves (was: Eye of Traldar & The Dymrak Dread) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am afraid that my write-ups of the criminal organizations of Karameikos are my creation based upon what I perceived to be their various requirements: Iron Ring: Slavers and hardened criminals, mostly dealing with outlaws powerful enough to allow slaves in various countries. I figured that they would bneed magical and religious backing to keep themselves alive for so long, so I made their patron Thanatos and gave them the Scarlet Slayers. Veiled Society: This was the easiest since it is based on the Mafia. Kingdom of Thieves: I made these into a collection of expert criminal "crews" who hand picked candidates from the criminal community at large. They are consummate professionals and each crew has its area of specialization. I have noticed that the Gazeteers, while excellent and an invaluable resource, were written with an almost child-like innocence when it comes to complexities. Criminal organizations require magical and religious backing in order to survive in a world where magic and religious powers are so commonplace. In this regard Mystara, as I see it, could be compared to Fritz Lieber's Newhon (I think that is the name of it), the world of Fafrdh and the Gray Mouser. Without their magical abilities organized criminals wouldn't stand a chance. Since such organizations not only exist, but thrive then logically they must have such abilities. The same could be extended to military and commercial organizations too. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Furneaux" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 11:49 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Iron ring and slaves (was: Eye of Traldar & The Dymrak Dread) > > It's a nasty ring of merciless slaver who operates > > all over Karameikos. > > They used to have their secret headquarters in the > > Black Eagle Barony > > (Ludwig von Hendriks and Bargle both being important > > members), and still > > will be if your campaign is before the Black Eagle > > was kicked out in AC > > 1010. > > Pretty much had that sussed, and at 985AC thats no > problem. events of WotI don't even kick in for 20 > years. I have to bide my time to use WotI > > > Slavery is outlawed in Karameikos, but then > > that just makes is very > > profitable. > > Well yes and no... yes cause theres no competition and > no cause theres no local demand. Is there anyone in > Karameikos that keeps slaves ? (other then the black > eagle) and thus could be a market (or Villan) > > > boxed set, too. The are also the major villains in > > B10: Night's Dark Terror > > What do they do/who are they? What actually happens in > B10 - other then it being so damn good. > > > They are also mentioned several times in B6: The > > Veiled Society, > > maybe I should've got it when I had the chance.... is > it any good. > > > George Hrabovsky has written a bit on the Iron Ring > > and the other guilds, > > which can be found on Shawn Stanley's site (though > > I'm not sure how much of > > this is official stuff... I don't remember reading > > about the Scarlet > > Slayers before, for instance, but maybe George can > > tell us): > > Thanks for the links they were quite helpful. Are > George's write ups fairly similar to the ones in > B10/B6/GAZ1 ? > > > Of course, the Iron Ring are wonderful enemies. > > Since they are slavers who > > capture the innocent and then ship them off to > > faraway lands, > > well I have a PC who is trying to get enough slaves to > build a kingdom in norwold by setting them free on the > condition that they stay his subjects. He is more then > fair as a ruler. So on one hand while he is against > slavery, he wants to buy slaves thus creating a demand > for slaves. Maybe I should send a slaveing expidition > from thyatis (where he bought some slaves) or > alphiatia to his dominion in norwold. > > Anyone have any ideas about how many slaves you could > actually buy over a week in particular cities? > > > Since I have both Gaz 1 and K:KoA (and a version of > > B6 in the B1-9 book), I > > can tell you about the ring. What do you need to > > know? > > Well I am particually interested in major > personalities, it's actual size (how many people do > they capture, how many men are involved, part time or > full time [is this detailed] etc..) does gaz1 or KKoA > have any sergested plots, and just general things > about the way in which they operate (how do they > collect infomation [raids, spies, casual informants, > etc.] > Things I can throw at my PC's and reasons that they > won't turn around and buy slaves from them. (or > propogate an Ankh-Morpork [Terry Pratchet] type > arangement where they just pay them to go somewhere > else :p ) > > Thanks for the replys. > Chris. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 02:57:23 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "Shawn J." Subject: Re: Eye of Traldar & The Dymrak Dread MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/17/01 5:31:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, c_furneaux@YAHOO.COM writes: > > As for DDA3, I had the goblins capture them. > > The PCs then meet a > > did you mean DDA4? or how you finished DDA3? > Yeah, I forgot for a sec that Eye of Traldar is DDA3. That adventure (EoT) is excellent and sparked many ideas for me---which led to an entire Karameikan campaign. --- Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 03:12:43 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Andrew Theisen Subject: [mystara3E] Proposal for Regional Mystaran Feats] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable David Knott wrote: > >Ylaruam is actually an example of a culture in which ethnicity is irrele= vant -- if you grew up in Ylaruam as a faithful follower of the faith of Etern= al Truth and did not seek to retain any advantages from your non-Ylari ances= try, then you are fully a member of that region.< My reading of Gaz2 doesn't give me this impression. Aside from the fact t= hat the Gaz devotes several pages to describing different ethnicities- Alasiy= an, Makistani, Nithian, Alphatian, and Thyatian- descriptions of the various emirates (particularly the Emirate of Makistan, populated primarily by, o= ddly enough, the aforementioned Makistani) leads me to the conclusion that the= re are many different "relevant" ethnicities. A Makistani True Believer seem= s still to possess different traits than would a Thyatian True Believer or = an Alasiyan True Believer. >In the case of a Traladaran raised in Ylaruam, he would have to choose between the Ylaruam region (for whichever faction he selects) or the Karameikos/Traladaran region.< Or the Glantri/Boldavian region, or the Savage Coast/Traladaran region, e= tc. IMO, having separate Regional and Ethnic lists saves a lot of trouble whe= n compared to having a Regional list divided into many "sub" Regions. But Y= MMV, I guess. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=3D1 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 03:18:15 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Iron ring and slaves (was: Eye of Traldar & The Dymrak Dread)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris Furneaux wrote: > >Well yes and no... yes cause theres no competition and no cause theres no local demand. Is there anyone in Karameikos that keeps slaves ? (other then the black eagle) and thus could be a market (or Villan)< Not in Karameikos (except maybe for humanoids in the woods and mountains)= , but next-door neighbor Thyatis is definitely a viable market. Possibly even s= ome of the Borderlands dominions of Darokin (the more unsavory ones, anyway).= >What do they do/who are they? What actually happens in B10 - other then it being so damn good.< One of the cells of the Iron Ring discovers documents leading to the Lost= Valley of Hutaaka, and they become intrigued by the possibility of ancien= t treasures and/or magic, and hound the PCs (who are also seeking the Valle= y). >maybe I should've got it when I had the chance.... is it any good.< Intriguing concept (city adventure) and interesting story, but IMO it req= uires quite a bit of fleshing out by the DM to really make it work well. >Thanks for the links they were quite helpful. Are George's write ups fairly similar to the ones in B10/B6/GAZ1 ?< B10 is one of the best sources on the Iron Ring, but also check out Drago= n Magazine #208(?- Can't recall the number offhand- anyone else know for su= re?) It details the Barony of Halag after the fall of the Black Eagle, and discusses the Iron Ring somewhat. IIRC, the Iron Ring were going to be the subject of a (2nd Edition) modul= e, but it only exists now as vaporware... ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=3D1 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 03:50:44 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Master's Pawn Subject: Re: Mystaran Boy Scouts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please, no Harpers, pseudo Harpers, Harpers Lite, etc. in my Mystara. ;) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 00:53:53 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Eye of Traldar & The Dymrak Dread In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Yeah, I forgot for a sec that Eye of Traldar is > DDA3. That adventure > (EoT) is excellent and sparked many ideas for > me---which led to an entire > Karameikan campaign. I am finding much the same. Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 04:16:54 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "Shawn J." Subject: Re: Iron ring and slaves (was: Eye of Traldar & The Dymrak Dread) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/18/01 1:35:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, c_furneaux@YAHOO.COM writes: > Well yes and no... yes cause theres no competition and > no cause theres no local demand. Is there anyone in > Karameikos that keeps slaves ? (other then the black > eagle) and thus could be a market (or Villan) > Villians always do. I put "holding cells" into several locations that were Iron Ring (or affiliated) hideouts. These are usually out of the way, abandoned ruins or caves not too far from a road or civilization. Zanzer Tem (with a name like that, he has to Alphatian), a villian from the large "black box" intro version of D&D, kept /lots/ of slaves (his dungeon was the "starter" dungeon included). I always figured he was a part of the Iron Ring or would sell slaves to them. Elwyn seems like she'd have dealings with them and keep slaves. Any less-than goodly merchant or petty lord who thinks the risk is worth it and can get away with it might choose to keep slaves too. I think only Zanzer, Elwyn and those like them would be a market for slaves though. But keep in mind, Thyatis is a short journey to the east---that's their primary market! --- Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 11:38:44 CEST Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Giulio Caroletti Subject: Rif: Re: [MYSTARA] Iron ring and slaves (was: Eye of Traldar & The Dymrak Dread) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Without their magical abilities organized criminals > wouldn't stand a chance. Since such organizations not only exist, but thrive > then logically they must have such abilities. > > The same could be extended to military and commercial organizations too. > > George I agree only 50%. I think that an organization with good magical abilities and connections inside the government can thrive without religious ties. The reverse is also true. Obviously, if you don't have religious ties, you must have stronger magical abilities. Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 11:47:19 CEST Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Giulio Caroletti Subject: Re: Iron ring and slaves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It has to be noted that several persons (me included) has suggested the idea that the concept of slavery is not viewed necessary as "evil" in the Known World. Although the world is based on RW Middle Age to Renaissance (with some Ancient flavour), we must remember that several nations of the Known World don't consider slavery evil. Apart from Thyatis, there are Ostland and Alphatia, and in general I don't agree with the idea that people in Mystara should think that "Slavery is bad". Well, I repeated myself about twenty times. 8-) Slavery is forbidden in Karameikos, Five Shires, Rockhome Alfheim and Ylaruam. Does anyone remember about Ethengar, Glantri, Ierendi, Sind and Hule? In Darokin I think there is serfdom (although not proper slavery). Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 13:05:10 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Iron ring and slaves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Giulio Caroletti wrote: > Slavery is forbidden in Karameikos, Five Shires, Rockhome > Alfheim and Ylaruam. Actually, slavery exists in Ylaruam, though the Gaz says the number of slaves is limited, and they are actually more indentured servants than slaves. People can be enslaved for debts in Ylaruam. > Does anyone remember about Ethengar, Glantri, Ierendi, Sind > and Hule? > In Darokin I think there is serfdom (although not proper > slavery). IIRC, there are indentured servants in Darokin, that is people who are forced to serve for a limited, but not necessarily short, time, and are after that time released with a limited pay. The same happens in the Heldannic Territories. Ierendi law doesn't seem to allow slavery, though certainly there are pirates trading in slaves there (IIRC, there is an adventure hook in the gaz about pirates enslaving children). I don't know about Sind, but in the Black Rajah's land slavery is legal. Hule does not have slaves as a social class (in canon), but given that the society is rather chaotic, it is possible that there are slaves, by law or de facto. Glantri does not have slaves, at least not humans/elves. Other races can easily wind up as slaves (especially goblinoids). In Caurenze, criminals are often converted into gladiatorial slaves. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 06:12:16 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Rif: Re: [MYSTARA] Iron ring and slaves (was: Eye of Traldar & The Dymrak Dread) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You are correct. I was using the and as an indicator of a union of elements, rather than an intersection. Thanks for pointing it out so I could clarify my point. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Giulio Caroletti" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 6:38 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] Rif: Re: [MYSTARA] Iron ring and slaves (was: Eye of Traldar & The Dymrak Dread) > Without their magical abilities organized criminals > > wouldn't stand a chance. Since such organizations not only exist, but thrive > > then logically they must have such abilities. > > > > The same could be extended to military and commercial organizations too. > > > > George > > I agree only 50%. I think that an organization with > good magical abilities and connections inside the > government can thrive without religious ties. The reverse > is also true. Obviously, if you don't have religious > ties, you must have stronger magical abilities. > > Iulius Sergius Scaevola > Captain of the XXth Cohort > Port Lucinius, Thyatis > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 14:40:24 +0300 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Ville V Lahde Subject: Iron Ring details In-Reply-To: <200107180736.f6I7aBU29134@uta.fi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The B10 Module was one of the key points in our long-lasting campaign, and I continued it with the suggested "Wrath of the Iron Ring" thread, where the organisation exerts revenge on the PCs for foiling their plans and killing a lot of their operatives. During the campaign I developed a twofold organisational scheme for the Ring. As you can see, it pretty much follows the material given in B10. On one hand they are organised into regional cells which are responsible for their main activity, capturing slaves and transporting them to the central command (in Black Eagle or wherever you like). These cells often enlist the help of local bandit or humanoid groups, like Golthar's cell did in B10. The cells are built hierachically, following the other main organisational principle of the Ring. The top dogs are a few "High Masters" who are responsible for certain key operational areas. Each of them controls a group of Lesser masters. They can be either leaders of cells or direct subordinates of the high Masters. Most of the rough work is done by the Reavers, the right and left hands of the Masters. While the Masters are responsible for planning operations, logistics etc., the Reavers are in practice responsible for the actual capturing of slaves etc. >From the captured slaves a special branch off the Iron Ring "produces" muscle for the Masters and the Reavers. The Hounds are a fearsome host of berserkers whose ability to fear has been eliminated by skillfull and extensive application of drugs. This also guarantees absolute loyalty. The B10 module made it clear that The Ring is not exclusively human. There are lycantropes, bugbears, orcs and humanoids of all sorts among the organisation. IMC there was a dwarven High Master responsible for guarding the slave deposits, and an elven High Master of assasins. This organisational form stays pretty much the same during the times when IR is engaged only in slave trade. But as B10 suggested, the organisation is highly interested in another field: magic. Is a lucrative opportunity to get some powerful magic arises, the Ring usually mopbilises a few cells into action, givine one field master supreme command or sending one specialist master on the field (Golthar in B10). In these instances the Ring is most dangerous, because it can focus astonishing resources on a single issue. IMC I have devised two whole sub-campaigns on the Iron Ring before the PCs annihilated the organisation completely. It is a really good villain for a Karameikos campaign, and one can safely assume that they are operating in many other countries too, at least Minrothad, Thyatis, Ierendi, Southern Darokin etc. Two years ago me and one of the PCs played a long solo-campaign where his cleric fought against the Ring and a Nithian Lich who had infiltrated the organisation. Details of this can be found in the timelines I sent to the list a few months ago. Yours, Ville ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 08:09:19 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Mischa Gelman Subject: Re: Eye of Traldar & The Dymrak Dread In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 17 Jul 2001, The Stalker wrote: > They are also mentioned several times in B6: The Veiled Society, IIRC, as > they are one of the three major thieves guilds in Karameikos (and the worst > one!). The Iron Ring was never mentioned in B6. The Veiled Society was mentioned along with the prominent families Tornescu, Radu and Vorloi. You're thinking of GAZ1, which uses the three divisions you mention. A minor technicality, as your descriptions were accurate. - Mischa While television is supposed to be 'free', it has in fact become the creature, the servant and indeed the prostitute of merchandising - Walter Lippman, 1959 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:16:35 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Mystaran Boy Scouts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Master's Pawn [mailto:BoBoII@AOL.COM] > > Please, no Harpers, pseudo Harpers, Harpers Lite, etc. in my > Mystara. ;) > I don't know anything about the Harper's, except they are in FR. I don't want them in Mystara either. What I am talking about would actually be a small semi-nomadic civilization of non-spellcasting bards & rangers that mainly protect their lands in guerilla 'hit & run' tactics; and are mainly interested in the ecology of their land. Not a group of people running around playing the Robin Hood scene and assassinating high level characters for not putting out campfires (the only impression I got of the Harpers). I am more interested in the land that they would have to live this way. I wanted them to be small in numbers, and non-spellcasting. Possibly having taboos against killing predatorial animals to allow attrition to their populace. The war with the elves could explain the non-spellcasting; as the elves in a final blow (that possibly caused their demise much faster) cursed the lands to make magic not work. Possibly 1-4th level spells don't work, 5-6th level work at half to 1/4 (with a save), 7-9th level spells are not affected. (Maybe the Elvenstar of Wendar absorbed all this magic, and the elves did not die, but moved to Wendar?) This would mean that no spell casters of any kind could exist in their society, unless they studied magic elsewhere outside the Great Wood, and brought back only high level spells (but this would mean they could not have apprentices to learn from them). Another take on this would be for 3E casters to have to implement high power spells of low levels for them to work. They would be a civilized/hunter/gatherer society, with no cities or towns, but a few well placed wooden structures, gardens, and gathering rings. These are all shared among the patrols that take care of the structures and gardens as they use them, then move on to another area to tend for, as another patrol moves in. Possibly instead of spells, give them rotes. These rotes are specific skills that they can use for the week. Like 1st level spells would be replaced by rotes such as +2 to Fire Building, +1 to Hunting; 2nd level spells: +1 to Tracking, +2 to Weather Prediction, +2 to Navigation. Since these rotes are only bonuses to existing skills, higher level rotes would give non-existing skills for the week (but only if at least another person that had that skill has spent a week with that patrol within the last several days/weeks (like 1d6 days +1 week/level). Any other comments or suggestions? (I am playing along the lines of inhabiting the rest of the unknown areas of Burn, but with civilizations that would have a reason to have not been mentioned in any of the Known World histories.) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 11:10:33 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Iron ring and slaves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Giampaolo Agosta [mailto:agathokles@LIBERO.IT] > > Giulio Caroletti wrote: > > > Slavery is forbidden in Karameikos, Five Shires, Rockhome > > Alfheim and Ylaruam. > > Actually, slavery exists in Ylaruam, though the Gaz says the number of > slaves is limited, and they are actually more indentured servants than > slaves. People can be enslaved for debts in Ylaruam. > > > Does anyone remember about Ethengar, Glantri, Ierendi, Sind > > and Hule? > > In Darokin I think there is serfdom (although not proper > > slavery). > I would make Sind a good market for slavery. It could bring slaves from the east to sell in the west to Hule, or for Hule to take its humans and elves to sell in the east; or both. Ethengar is based on the RW Mongols, and they had slaves from conquered peoples (but only on rare occasions, slaves are not that transportable) If Ethengarians begin to start conquering other territories and settling them, then they most definitely will have slaves of the conquered areas. I think only the Kahn would have any permanent slaves (and they would probably be his wives or servants to them {which might not be that bad ;)}). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 12:15:23 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Iron ring and slaves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Giulio Caroletti [mailto:scarole@TIN.IT] > > It has to be noted that several persons (me included) > has suggested the idea that the concept of slavery is not > viewed necessary as "evil" in the Known World. >>snip<< > Slavery should and would not be considered evil in most nations of the Mystaran world. Slavery was not viewed evil until nations started to give people certain rights in the RW. Nations could view slavery as evil when it picks on a certain race as a slave race (like the Jennites in Alphatia). Thyatians having slaves does not make much sense when they have such a diverse culture (Ochalea, Nuari, Thratians, et). Just how would one be considered a slave? Social Class? Then nobody would be poor in Thyatis, as they would be cared for as a slave. If Thyatis has slaves from conquered nations, they would be constantly conquering to feed their need for slaves (they are a colonizing empire, so this makes no sense either). Most of their slaves must be imported from other nations, like Ostland, Sind, and the Iron Ring in Karameikos. Ierendi pirates would be a good shipper of slaves from west to east. Thyatian slaves would be a good percentage of Sindhi and Antalian stock; with a good mix of Traladaran, and possibly Espa, Slag, and Yavi. (Although this could upset other nations like the Nuari.) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 19:26:39 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Iron ring and slaves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christopher Cherrington wrote: > > If Thyatis has slaves from conquered > nations, they would be constantly conquering to feed their need for slaves > (they are a colonizing empire, so this makes no sense either). I think that the expansion in the Hinterlands can have brought an heavy influx of slaves. Of course, clans who submit are assimilated, but clans who fight are enslaved, and sold on the mainland (a good policy to avoid rebellions, I'd say). > Most of > their slaves must be imported from other nations, like Ostland, Sind, and > the Iron Ring in Karameikos. Ierendi pirates would be a good shipper of > slaves from west to east. Thyatian slaves would be a good percentage of > Sindhi and Antalian stock; with a good mix of Traladaran, and possibly Espa, > Slag, and Yavi. (Although this could upset other nations like the Nuari.) I'd say they're mostly Thratians, Traladarans, and Sindhi, plus some Alphatians from the IoD. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:21:11 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: III Subject: Mystara in Dungeon Magazine Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The recent discussion of the small HWA 1 encounter from Dungeon 28 got me thinking about the other Mystara material in Dungeon. I don't know anything about that material so I headed over to the Vaults (see http://www.dnd.starflung.com/dungeon.html). It includes a good index, but not much detail. Does anyone have any additional information about the listed adventures? Any thoughts about what is worth tracking down and what isn't worth the trouble? Andy Morrow III _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 19:41:58 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: The Goblins of Dymrak In-Reply-To: <20010717234109.14333.qmail@web13105.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This is a preliminary version of the Goblin article. The material is based on B10, Monster Manual, Orcs of Thar, Gaz1 and information from my own campaign. Feedback is welcome! :) Dymrak Goblins A relatively large population of goblins is found within the borders of Karameikos. Most live in or originate from the western part of the large forest known as Dymrak. Karameikan Goblins stand about 4 ft tall. They have chalky skin and rusty brown hair. Facial hair is uncommon, but is sometimes found among older goblins. They have flat faces, broad noses, pointed ears and small sharp fangs fill their wide mouths. Their eye color range from red to yellow, and give off a faint red light in the dark. Goblins mature faster than humans, but have a shorter lifespan. Few goblins live longer than 60 years. Names: Crude sounding names are used for males and females alike: Angmar, Arkah, Augh, Bangrah, Dguul, Huzzk, Khorgul, Marukk, Rooth, V�tamm and Zar. Goblins speak Goblin (Dymrak dialect), and the more intelligent of their race also speak Traladaran or Thyatian. Goblin Society Like most goblins, Karameikan goblins are tribal. Their leaders are the ones who are able to dominate others with physical strength and size. They have no concept of privacy, living and sleeping in large common areas. Goblins survive by raiding and stealing. They make their lairs in ruins or caves. Sometimes other humanoids are found in the company of goblins, either as rulers or servants. Karameikan Goblins usually serve Orcus, Demogorgon or Arik. Relations with other races. The goblins sometimes cooperate with other humanoids, but no formal alliances have been made with any of those clans. The humans living in the westernmost parts of Dymrak are the victims of goblin raids and relations are openly hostile. Many of the goblin clans have been used as mercenaries for the Iron Ring, and the leaders of that organization have been in close contact with goblin chieftains. The eastern tribes are mainly loyal to Argos, the green dragon dwelling in those lands.The goblins fear the elves and avoid contact with the Vyalia elves living in the far east of Dymrak. The Major Tribes: Wolf-Skull (Kloss-Lunk) Chieftain: Kloss Symbol: Wolf�s Head The Kloss-Lunk tribe is a relatively small one, particularily known for their talent for training dire wolves which are used as mounts. When a young warrior is coming of age, he gets his own dire wolf, and losing your mount is a matter of shame among the Kloss-Lunk. They can be recognized by their wolf skin cloaks, and are usually armed with axes and spears. The Kloss-Lunk are known for their courage, and often fight to the death rather than flee. Their lair is in the Petrified Forest, deep within Dymrak. The Petrified forest is a small area within Dymrak where all the plants and even some animals have been turned into stone. It was created by one of the Witches of Dymrak, Esmeralda, a Hag with medusa-like powers. Esmeralda is allied with the Kloss-Lunk although they haven�t had much contact in recent years. Red-Blade (Gnhasska) Chieftain: Gnhass Symbol: Bloodied Sword The Gnhasska tribe is recognized by their red clothing. Some times red ornaments made from feathers, shells, fruit rinds, beads and stones are used aswell. They are usually armed with short swords and slings. Their lair is underground within Dymrak. The Gnhasska do not use dire wolves, but have instead learned to train Giant Rats which they use as guard animals. Viper (Jaggadash) Symbol: Snake The Jaggadash tribe is recognized by their tradition of decorating their bodies with tatoos. The tribe symbol, the snake, is a popular pattern, but often their entire bodies are covered with different tatoos. The Jaggadash tribe favours the use of warhammers and daggers. They are a sly tribe, favouring ambush to head on attacks. They are sometimes mocked by other tribes for being cowardly. They have an underground lair within Dymrak. The Jaggadash tribe and several minor tribes along with it have been subjugated to the control of Argos, the mighty green dragon living in the east. Yellow-Fang (Faz-Plak) Chieftain: Plak Symbol: Ruined Tower The Faz-Plak tribe once lived in the northern part of Dymrak, but moved north to the ancient Hutaaka Ruins known as Xitaqua. They are recognized by their yellow skin clothes and ornament themselves with heavy iron collars and arm bands. Their favoured weapons are short swords and bows. After moving to Xitaqua, the Faz-Plak learned to train the Semi-Intelligent Rock Baboons there. They are allied with the Bloodhead (Vlackagg) Hobgoblins also residing within Xitaqua. The tribe has connections with the Iron Ring slavers organization which sometimes employs them as mercenaries. ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:46:07 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Matthew Wang Subject: Re: Mystara in Dungeon Magazine In-Reply-To: <8084368.995476871408.JavaMail.imail@cheeks.excite.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Andy, I have most of the issues and will post my thoughts on most of them later, but the ones that stand out in my mind are: Of Nests and Nations (I think this is the title) in Issue 13 was a great adventure. The humaniod adventure in Issue 22 was hilarious! I have a full run of Dungeon (except for issue 1), but still haven't read all the issues. Before the end of the summer, I will compile a more detailed list for the site. Matt --- III wrote: > The recent discussion of the small HWA 1 encounter > from Dungeon 28 got me > thinking about the other Mystara material in > Dungeon. I don't know anything > about that material so I headed over to the Vaults > (see > http://www.dnd.starflung.com/dungeon.html). It > includes a good index, but > not much detail. Does anyone have any additional > information about the > listed adventures? Any thoughts about what is worth > tracking down and what > isn't worth the trouble? > > > Andy Morrow III __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 19:58:15 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Eye of Traldar & The Dymrak Dread In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- The Stalker skrev: > On > Oh btw, don't forget about the green dragon Argos > that lives in/under the > Lake of Dreams! This was mentioned in an article by > Bruce Heard in Dragon > no. 171, but it's available at Shawn's site: > Argos is in there :) However, if you have ideas for how he might be more involved with the Goblins I'd like to hear about it. Several of the tribes should be under his direct control and actually most of them are probably influenced by him. IMC there is a link between Argos and the Seer. The Seer is a powerful servant of the Traladaran Three, while Argos is the Seers opposite, serving the Entropic Immortals who wish to destroy Karameikos. Anyways, if you did any more work on Dymrak connected with your campaign, I might be able to incorporate it with my stuff, so anything you might want to share is appreciated! :) Haavard ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 14:09:31 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Iron ring and slaves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Agathokles [mailto:agathokles@LIBERO.IT] > > I think that the expansion in the Hinterlands can have > brought an heavy > influx of slaves. Of course, clans who submit are > assimilated, but clans > who fight are enslaved, and sold on the mainland (a good > policy to avoid > rebellions, I'd say). > Using such a close relative, such as the Hinterlands, as slaves might be more upsetting to the Empire in general. It would be almost like cannibalism. The Hinterlandish were the remaining tribes that did not move north with the Hattians, Thyatians, and Kerrendians. This type of policy for enslaving distant cousins would soon give rise to anti-slavery sentiment in Thyatis mainland. Of course taking these Hinterland slaves to other parts of the empire would be more acceptable; but I do not see the peaceful Ochaleans nor the tribal Nuari as slave owners. Using the Hinterland slaves to help colonize the Isle of Dread and environs would be a very good alternative, and so would giving them to barons on the Isle of Dawn with Northern Reaches backgrounds, like Helskir. This would be a good plot line to involve PC's in. They could be sentimental to the resent influx of slaves so closely resembling their racial stock, and would possibly try to have the slaves rebel on the Isle of Dread, and start their own independent Barony. Although they would have to have very good political ties to other nations like Minrothad for protection against reprisals. Thyatis would want these islands back, as they could be a very good supply station between Thyatis and the Hinterlands. The RW Haiti is a very good example of this, the slaves there rebelled against the French, and established independence for themselves (but with no political ties, the country has ended up very poor and isolated). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 11:10:41 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: III Subject: Re: Mystara in Dungeon Magazine Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Matt, That's fantastic. Andy >I have most of the issues and will post my thoughts on >most of them later, but the ones that stand out in my >mind are: >Of Nests and Nations (I think this is the title) in >Issue 13 was a great adventure. >The humaniod adventure in Issue 22 was hilarious! >I have a full run of Dungeon (except for issue 1), but >still haven't read all the issues. Before the end of >the summer, I will compile a more detailed list for >the site. >Matt _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 20:57:48 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Agathokles Subject: Damocles, the Emerondians & other Mystaran mysteries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here is a long project that is coming to an end. I've sent to the list a small portion, the Pachydermions, but now I'm finally ready to present a long History of Damocles, the planet that exploded in AC 1010. It is a loose timeline, which accomodates many events taking place of Mystara, and provides a framework for a mini-campaign setting on Damocles (taking place somewhere in the past, of course). Before going on with the actual stuff, some credits: Related works: *Marco Dalmonte, for work his Kingdom of Emerond *Andrew Thiesen, for the Patera Files People who have contributed to this work through discussions and ideas: *James Ruhland (aka Porphy/Evil Genius) for discussing the possibility of basing Emerondian "biotech" on Dark Sun's "life shaping" *Jacob Skytte, for pointing out the inconsistencies between this timeline and Northern Reaches canon history *Giulio Caroletti, for discussing with me the whole timeline, and pointing out confusing or inconsistent points. And now, here's the Timeline... ====================================== History of the Grens & the Emerondians The Beagle's Shipwreck, circa BC 4000 The Beagle shipwrecks on Mystara. A number of scouting parties which had landed on Damocles are stranded on the surface of that planet, as their "Flying Eggs" are unsuited for star flight. The Eggs' crew is mainly composed by experienced scouts and biologists, sent on Damocles to analyse the local life forms and capture interesting specimens. There is a number of ebots on Damocles, too. Damocles is a verdant planet, devoid of highly developed sentient life forms, but holding a small number of primitive non-human races (choose suitable, non-Mystaran primitives). The officers in charge of the Eggs contact the Beagle, and are ordered by Capt. Riesling to avoid contact with the locals and wait the rescue teams from the Federation. However, the officers are both removed from the control of Capt. Riesling and unable to adopt his policy of reducing the impact on the local environment by sending the crewmen to the stasis pods. In a few weeks it becomes clear to all that survival will become impossible, unless some means of gathering food is obtained. The Federation aliens use their technological skills to modify the ebots programming to change them into useful hunters-gatherers, while a small number of ebots is reserved for the exploration of the planet. In the next year, it becomes evident that the Beagle is unable to leave Mystara, that Bork Riesling is loosing his sanity and that Damocles hasn't plenty of metallic minerals. The stranded aliens are locked in a stalemate, as they have the knowledge and tools, but not the materials, to start building a self-supporting village, and are forced to rely on their battery-powered tools and weapons instead. In the following years, things only worsen as the Eggs' batteries are drained to recharge those of the commonly used tools and weapons. The alien crew is now unable to leave the surface, and most ebots are inactive. Rise of the Life Shapers (BC 4000-3800) At last, the alien biologists manage to achieve a degree of success in a project they have been working on during all of these years: they have modified one of their Eggs to work as a bioengineering laboratory, and have modified some native creatures of Damocles to become producers of useful tools, like arrow heads. During the next decades, most technological items are replaced by bioengineered creatures or tissues. Blasters, medkits and the like are now kept locked in one of the three surviving Eggs (the other having been dismantled and cannibalized for replacement parts). Meanwhile, a new generation of aliens grows, and is taught in the techniques of bioengineering more than in any other branch of Federation's science. During the next few generations, electronics, computer science and astrogation become "sage knowledge", limited to the few keepers of the Eggs. The need for the Egg-laboratory ends as soon as fertile life-shaped creatures and mother-creatures for tissues are created. The keepers, knowing that the batteries are now able to power only one Egg, store all of the remaining energy in one of the Eggs, and lock all of them in a secret underground room in their compound. The Pyrithians (BC 3500) The aliens start loosing their historical memories, having already forgot all of their scientific knowledge, save for lifeshaping. Contact with the Beagle has been lost after only two centuries, and the historical records in the Eggs' computers are not accessible, as even the Keepers' lore is no more clear enough to make them work. The nebulous remains of the Federation's history and the early settlers history merge into a corpus of legends. The descendants of the Beagle crewmen call themselves Pyrithians, as they believe their ancestor have arrived on the planet riding a flaming meteor. They have built an ancestor cult, and their cultural level has dropped dangerously, as they have been unable to write properly, deprived of their technological devices. They have slowly developed an alphabet of rough, geometric symbols which they carve on bark. The Pyrithian population has raised from the original 50 or so to a nation of 100.000, growing around the capitol city, Pyrond. The nation of Pyrith is ruled by a a council of elder lifeshapers, who decide over internal matters, as no contact as been established with the other sentient race of Damocles. The Great Rain of Fire (BC 3000) By this time, the Pyrithian civilization has grown so much that it is no more united in a single nation. The Keepers' Council still rules the old Pyrond, but a number of warlike kingdoms have been created at the border of the Pyrithian land. A catastrophic event on Mystara is witnessed by the Pyrithian lifeshapers. They consider Mystara the land were the ancestor went when they left Damocles, so the sudden increase in apparent magnitude of the planet is subject to all kinds of interpretations. Many link the celestial event with the recent discovery of other civilizations on Damocles, or with the divisions among the Pyrithians, starting a time of conflict both internal and with the bordering Damoclitean nations. (BC 2700) The lifeshapers start creating grafts, in addition to the other kinds of lifeshaped items. Birth of the Pyrondians (BC 2000) By this time, Damocles is evenly divided between the Pyrithians and the other surviving races. Thanks to their lifeshaped equipment, the Pyrithians have slowly got the upper hand and are dislodging the other sentient species, conquering them. Their march is hindered only by the internal struggles, as warrior-princes fight among themselves for power. Meanwhile, the Keepers have worked to widen the genetic pool of the Pyrithians, who all descend from a small number of individuals. At the same time, they are trying to induce useful mutations in their own race. Their main concern are the side effects of grafts, which limit their usefulness. To overcome them, the Pyrithians of Pyrond lifeshape themselves, adding plant-like physiologic traits. The Pachydermion Wars (BC 1000) By this time, the Pyrondians have gone a long way from their ancestors: they are now solid green in colour, and have pointed ears; moreover, they now reproduce by planting a cutting into a "mother". They are rather different from the common Pyrithian of the colonies, which now extend over more than three quarters of Damocles. The other civilized races of Damocles have mostly died out, save for the Pachydermions. This ancient species had already reached pinnacles of culture and clerical magic far before the Pyrithians managed to contact them. They had established a number of large extra-planetary colonies, reaching the asteroid belt around Damocles first, and Mystara's invisible moon, Patera, next. When the Pachydermions finally realized the extent of the Pyrithean expansion, they were almost alone in their defensive war. But they had the resources to fight against the invaders, who where forced to bring the war to the asteroids in order to block the influx of resources to the mainland. Age of the Pirate Kings (BC 900) The Pyrithean civilization suddenly start its decline. The war with the Pachydermions has been short but very intense by Damoclitean standards, consuming much of the resources of both nations. The Pachydermions are unable to take advantage of the Pyrithians' retreat from the border lands, and a wide buffer zone is formed around the Pachydermion land. The Pyrithians space troops, mostly hailing from the ranks of mutated Pyrondians, start a new life as pirates in the asteroid belt, depleting it from its already scarce resources, and forcing the local Pachydermions to flee for Patera. (BC 800) A new subrace emerges from the piratical Pyrondians, as power-hungry pirates use dark magics to contact outer planar beings. The new race has darker skin, and bright silvery hair, combined with sharp features and shining red eyes. The main evolutionary step is actually a "regression" to the animal realm, justified by the need to survive in the deep space for long times. These Dark Pyrondians conflict with their cousins for supremacy. Also, their ability to influence living creature is stronger, and they become adept at extracting the quintessential qualities of the living and absorb them for their use, or to bind them to lifeshaped items. The process is always lethal for the subject, unfortunately. (BC 500) By this time, Damocles is nearly isolated. The space pirates are now forced to search plunder in their own homeland, causing the tensions between Pyrond and the other nations to grow. Pyrond's leadership has been taken by the Pirate Kings since the time of the Pachydermion war, and Keepers have nearly disappeared. The Dark Pyrondians are defeated, and most leave with their dark knowledge, reaching the region of Mystara that would become the Northern Reaches. The imperfect mutation processes and the fiendish blood have by now given a long life span to the race, at the cost of a much reduced fertility. A few Dark Pyrondians remain on Damocles, working secretly to bring the downfall of Pyrond. The Civil War (BC 400) A civil war, engineered by the Dark Pyrondians, destroys Pyrond, marking the end of the Pyrondians. Barbaric kingdoms ruled by the descendants of the generals of the Pachydermion Wars continue the fight for control of Damocles. The Pyrithean civilization falls completely within a few generations. The last three Keepers gather a small flotilla of like minded individuals and leave Damocles, trying to reach the Ancestors' Land. The refugees make landfall in the northern davanian jungles, and start establishing a new colony. (BC 200) The Dark Pyrondians on Damocles are by now reduced to a handful of individuals, mostly powerful lifeshapers, whose unnaturally long life span brings to them great knowledge, but induces mental imbalance. Emerond (BC 150) The Mystaran colony founded around BC 400 is now large enough to be considered a kingdom. The political structure is formalized by the first three Protectors, who name the first King of Emerond. A policy of isolation is established, and stubbornly kept for the next millennium. The Protectors are the direct descendants of the Keepers, and have changed their names to signify their modified goals, as they are now going to protect not only their nation's culture, but also the nation itself and its land. (BC 50) On Damocles, the Pyrithians are reduced to a cultural level varying from Stone Age to Bronze Age. (AC 0) Each of the nine surviving Dark Pyrondian on Damocles has established himself as a powerful, nearly immortal "sorcerer". Some retreat to hidden refuges, creating servant races or attempting experiments with their techniques to increase their personal powers. Pheazar, one of the Dark Pyrondians, a master of life-binding rituals, manages to contact his Mystaran relatives. They have by now established a mostly subterranean culture and a kingdom. The Dark Pyrondians are in contact with the Mordrigswerg, a clan of exiled Dwarves in the Northern Reaches, and have had some encounters with Shattenalfen or Shadow Elves. Noticing the similarity of their likenesses, and legends of the Mordrigswergs about a mysterious elven people, the "Svartalfen", they start naming themselves "Dark Elves", in order to establish a false history of their race on Mystara, and achieve some degree of respect among the Mordrigswergs, whom they see as suitable allies or minions for their plans. The Dark Elves (AC 100) By this time, the Dark Elves have assumed a complete "elven" fa�ade when dealing with native humans and humanoids. Pheazar, now known as Feasar in the Elven tongue, guides them from his refuge on Damocles. A number of cultists of the an Entropic Immortal, reach the Dark Elven court [These may be Alphatian renegades or an offshoot of the Nithian followers of Thanatos]. The Dark Elven King Heltharm, or Eldalom� in Elven, allies with them, in an effort to dominate the world by summoning a number of fiends, binding them to powerful construct created by the Mordrigswerg, and using them to conquer the neighbouring nations. In future Antalian legends, these cultists will often be confused with the followers of the "Father of Demons" from the Mordrigswerg legends. (AC 140) Pheazar comes to Mystara, thanks to the sacrifice of a captured creature endowed with natural teleport ability, perhaps a fiend of some kind. (AC 150) An Antalian army, alerted by omens from the Norse Gods, storms the fortress of the Dark Elves, destroying it before the summoning ritual is completed. The attack is successful only because of the help of the Mordrigswergs, Brokk and Sindri, who take advantage of the turmoil to sacrifice Pheazar, Heltharm, and seven other Dark Elven sages to create their masterwork, the Ring of the Nine Svartalfen. On Damocles, a clone of Pheazar becomes active as the safeguards set by the Dark Pyrondian sorcerer are triggered by his death. (AC 200) On Damocles, the Pyrithians have recovered to a Medieval cultural level, though many regions are still in a Dark Age. (AC 300) By this time, Pheazar is back in control of his powers and resources, and has discovered what has happened on Mystara more than a century ago. Enraged, he strives to find a way of avenging his previous defeat. Luckily, the Dark Elves are now so few that they cannot be of any use, so Pheazar must search for more suitable allies. (AC 400) Pheazar discovers that part of his spirit is bound to the Ring of the Nine Svartalfen, as the "Feasar" command word is used by a power-hungry frost giant wokan. During the next century, he his slowly driven mad by the telepathic link with the bound spirit. Since he is unable to travel to Mystara, Pheazar cannot destroy the Ring. He focus is efforts on gaining more power, by gathering knowledge and life energy from any source. (AC 500) Currently, on Damocles the Pyrithians are the dominating race, making up more than 70% of the sentient population. The few remaining Pachydermions (an insular, semi-nomadic culture devoted to religion and clerical matters) and Pyrondians (now deprived of their cultural heritage and reduced to a race of druidic woodland beings) are tolerated by the dominant cultures. The fiendish servant races of the Dark Pyrondians, more than a dozen in total, make up the remaining 20% of the population. Pheazar has by now a complete knowledge of magic, though he is unable to use it himself (except for powers deriving from his demonic ancestry), an heritage of the Federation Aliens blood and the mutations induced in order to control lifeshaping powers. Since the Ring of the Nine Svartalfen is lost, and cannot be used, the telepathic link is somewhat disrupted by the dormant state of the Feasar spirit, and Pheazar is able to recover some degree of sanity, and accomplishes great feats of lifeshaping. Age of Wizard-Lords (AC 600) Pheazar creates a lifeshaped head graft, which can confer to a Pyrithian the ability to learn wizardly magic. Up to three graft can be used by a single Pyrithian, each allowing three levels of spellcasting power. Pheazar begins a campaign of conquest, sending his wizards to submit Pyrithian nations. The Pachydermions and the Pyrondians are the strongest opposition to Pheazar plans, as they are to everything done by the Dark Pyrondians. Nations fallen under the sway of Pheazar outlaw and prosecute the two races, and welcome the servant races of Pheazar in their armies. (AC 700) Wizard servants of Pheazar storm the fortress of the Dread Prince, one of the other Dark Pyrondians, capture him and sacrifice him in order to create a powerful device that will allow Pheazar to acquire wizardly powers. (AC 800) Pheazar is nearly ready to come back to Mystara, when five of the remaining Dark Pyrondians ally against him, drawing with them two powerful Pyrithian nations. However, Pheazar's new magical power grows fast and proves decisive. The conflict lasts nearly half a century, leaving three more Dark Pyrondians dead, and Pheazar severely weakened. (AC 900) Pheazar has recovered his power. This time, no one is going to attack him while he teleports to Mystara, since he has allied with two of his former enemies, revealing them the secret of magic-endowing grafts. Meanwhile, on Mystara, the Ostman jarl Storverk recovers the Ring of the Nine Svartalfen, and uses it in an attempt to wrest power from the House of Cnute. As a consequence, Pheazar suffers of violent crisis of madness, and causes much destruction in his own lands. (AC 920) Storverk is killed by Hord Dark-Eye's father, and his treasure is confiscated by the King of Ostland. Pheazar begins recovering from his madness. He is even more enraged, and starts a new plot. He starts collecting life energy, in order to cast an extremely powerful enchantment that will power him so that he will dominate the Ring, and its user. To do so, he is required to reach a power level equal to that of demigods. The Last War (AC 960) The four surviving Dark Pyrondians meet with the Grand Druid of the Pyrondians, the High Trunk of the Pachydermions, and the Emperor of Pyrithis, and the High King of Damoclides, the major Pyrithian nations. They ally to counter the mad actions of Pheazar, who is going to sacrifice the entire population of Damocles in his bid for power. A great war begins between the Damoclean Alliance and Pheazar. The Doom of Damocles (AC 1010) Alliance intelligence reports that Pheazar is ready to cast is spell. The clergy is convinced that he will ultimately fail, not having gathered enough life energy. However, his power is sufficient to destroy the whole Damocles. They propose that all resources are pooled to create a sphere of protection that will preserve the planet, and limit the power of Pheazar's enchantment. The Dark Pyrondians don't trust the priests, and decide to attack Pheazar and stop him instead, but utterly fail. As Pheazar loose control of his own spell, the magical energies that held Damocles together are released, and the planet explodes, resulting in complete destruction. On Mystara, the Ring of the Nine Svartalfen is affected by the destruction of the Damoclitean part of Pheazar, so that the Pheazar spirit bound to the ring is now completely insane, and quite dangerous, if invoked. Luckily, the Ring is hidden in King Hord's treasury, so there is no immediate effect on Mystara. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 21:08:38 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Iron ring and slaves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christopher Cherrington wrote: > > Using such a close relative, such as the Hinterlands, as slaves might be > more upsetting to the Empire in general. It would be almost like > cannibalism. I don't think so. RW Romans and Greeks used neighbouring (and much nearer) people as slave fodder. And it never gave them any problem. Most, if not all, Greek slaves, were other Greeks, for example. The people of Syracuse sold an entire army from Athens into slavery. Romans were not picky as well, and slaves came from Italic and Greek settlements as well. Of course, this changed when that cities when assimilated, and at that points slaves started coming from farther nations, but celtic slaves would not be uncommon in late Republican times, due to Caesar's wars. I don't see why Thyatis would behave differently. To do so would be to say that they disapprove slavery to some extent, which is exactly what we are negating, IMHO. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 11:59:32 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dave Keyser Organization: Palmchip Subject: Re: Mystara in Dungeon Magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit III wrote: > The recent discussion of the small HWA 1 encounter from Dungeon 28 got me > thinking about the other Mystara material in Dungeon. I don't know anything > about that material so I headed over to the Vaults (see > http://www.dnd.starflung.com/dungeon.html). It includes a good index, but > not much detail. Does anyone have any additional information about the > listed adventures? Any thoughts about what is worth tracking down and what > isn't worth the trouble? > > Andy Morrow III Well, IMO, ones that have provide quality additional Mystaran information and are also good adventures would be issues- 12, 13, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 26, 42, 44, and 54 12 Played it twice. It features a suprise at the end that neither group saw coming, although the clues are there for the clever ones to figure out what is going on. Also introduces a unique gambling game with dice and a toad. It also introduces a new d'Ambreville, although he really doesn't fit very well into the family. Another minus is that a cleric is walking around collecting for his charity, although it is a remote area of Glantri. 13 Specularum is under siege from a group of magical saboteurs. Plenty of events and detective work to keep the PCs busy. It features the hivebrood monsters which are one of my favorites, they are a little like the Borg. 20 A dungeon crawl, but the dungeon is unique, the background is high fantasy, and the bad guys are manscorpions. I also like manscorpions. 21 Designed to be run with the CM modules. It shows how to put to good use one of the undead from the Companion box set. I can't remember the name, the undead tree with the leaves? Also provides a small amount of detail on the Norworld elves. 22 High quality adventure for humanoid PCs, same humor as GAZ10, fun to read even if you never play it. It also provides details of the Glantri town(Trinitan?) near the Broken Lands, and a couple of sites in the Broken Lands. 23 The only adventure set in Soderfjord outside of GAZ7, it is a somewhat typical 'destroy the threat from the wilderness'. The bad guys are lizardmen, but the leader is going to be a surprise for the PCs. Also describes the local militia. 24 Evil wizard in tower, but it introduces a organization that has a lot of long-term potential. Nice features are, good for 1st level PCs, detailed background of all the bad guys, provides a clever means of escape if the PCs get captured, and has several good puzzles. Played it once, the players had a lot of fun and were successful. 26 I like bhuts. The Westron Road is significantly more dangerous than it normally will be for this adventure. It also includes 3 NPCs at the end who could be plundered for other uses. 42 Features the only noble outside Fort Doom with some ties to von Hendricks. PCs must deliver a ransom to kidnappers and retrieve the victim, but there is going to be a fight, due to a setup. The bad guys are described with a lot of color. 44 An interesting mystery, based on events from PWA1010. 54 A murder mystery, played once, which the players enjoyed. One of the players actually got disturbed when he found footprints from the redcap, which is the size of a large toddler. Issues 6 and 7 are worth picking up if you plan to play module X9, issue 28 is worth picking up if you plan to play HWA1, and 62 is worth picking up if you plan to play XS2 or if you like the Savage Coast. Dave Keyser ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 22:08:19 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Eye of Traldar & The Dymrak Dread In-Reply-To: <20010718014834.96238.qmail@web13306.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Chris Furneaux skrev: > Well I don't know about Roger, but I am very > interested, as I intend to have to write/convert/etc > something now the PC's have the eye of Traldar. If > you > could tell me some more about your ideas, then I can > possibly include some of your ideas in whatever I > write. Basically, the Eyes of Traldar were two gems crafted by the Nithian (ProtoTraladaran) Wizard (or maybe cleric is better) named Traldar. He was the one who lead the Traldar into whats now Karameikos in ancient times. The Two gems were highly magical items; one called the Black Opal Eye and the other called the White Crystal Eye. The second one was given to the Seer of the Lake of Lost Dreams. It was enchanted with abilities like a crystal ball with other divining powers aswell. Exactly how the Seer was granted the Eye is unknown, but it seems strangely linked to him. There might be some connection between the Eyes of Traldar and the 1000 Eyes of Arik, but this is mere speculations. Perhaps the Eyes of Traldar were forged to counter the Eyes of Arik. The Black Opal Eye found itself in the position of the Wizard Philosopher Elyas who lived among the elves of Radlebb, however Elyas was in all likelyhood killed by three witches and the Opal Eye has not been seen since. The exact powers of this object are unrevealed, but it is indicated that it is different from the Crystal Eye. Perhaps the Crystal Eye is the Watching Eye and the Opal Eye is the one with more destructive powers. This would explain why the witches sought the gem. The above are my own musings partly based on information from various modules. Comments and ideas are welcome. > P.S. The The Witches of Radlebb > http://dnd.starflung.com/witchrad.html > has a typo where it says "The witches wowed revenge" > in case someone wants to fix it to vowed. Thanks! Hopefully Stan will fix this. If not, I am planning on rewriting and expanding all of these articles eventually so the problem will be fixed. H�vard ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 16:15:04 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Damocles, the Emerondians & other Mystaran mysterie s MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Agathokles [mailto:agathokles@LIBERO.IT] > > They had established a number of large extra-planetary colonies, > reaching the asteroid belt around Damocles first, and Mystara's > invisible moon, Patera, next. > Good story, one point; I thought the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter was created when Damocles was destroyed, not that it existed between Damocles and Jupiter? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 16:24:30 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Iron ring and slaves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Agathokles [mailto:agathokles@LIBERO.IT] > > I don't think so. RW Romans and Greeks used neighbouring (and much > nearer) people as slave fodder. And it never gave them any problem. > Most, if not all, Greek slaves, were other Greeks, for example. The > people of Syracuse sold an entire army from Athens into slavery. > Romans were not picky as well, and slaves came from Italic and Greek > settlements as well. Of course, this changed when that cities when > assimilated, and at that points slaves started coming from farther > nations, but celtic slaves would not be uncommon in late Republican > times, due to Caesar's wars. > I don't see why Thyatis would behave differently. To do so would be to > say that they disapprove slavery to some extent, which is exactly what > we are negating, IMHO. > -- This is true, but with the fall of the Romans, many new nations created feudal systems that could not support slaves. So the new leaders instituted serfdom. Where you work for me and live on my land and I will protect you. Why? Because I am Roman Blood, and God gives me the right! But slavery was for a long time not re-introduced until nations of Western Europe was able to financially support colonies with slaves. So when you have a Rome right next to a feudal system with serfs, to me it makes no sense. On one side of the border you are considered a slave and have no rights (except you can't be maimed or killed); on the other side of the border, you are considered a 'freeman' and can earn only enough money to pay your taxes and have limited freedoms (but you can pick your own wife!). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 06:53:03 +1000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: Eye of Traldar & The Dymrak Dread Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> P.S. The The Witches of Radlebb >> http://dnd.starflung.com/witchrad.html >> has a typo where it says "The witches wowed revenge" >> in case someone wants to fix it to vowed. > >Thanks! Hopefully Stan will fix this. If not, I am >planning on rewriting and expanding all of these >articles eventually so the problem will be fixed. you never know the witches could have been wowing revenge shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 16:05:20 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: The Goblins of Dymrak MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Nice work! I am compiling a series of "mini-Gazetteers" on the peoples of Karameikos and I would like to use some of this, if I may. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Havard Faanes" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 12:41 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] The Goblins of Dymrak > This is a preliminary version of the Goblin article. > The material is based on B10, Monster Manual, Orcs of > Thar, Gaz1 and information from my own campaign. > Feedback is welcome! :) > > > Dymrak Goblins > A relatively large population of goblins is found > within the borders of Karameikos. Most live in or > originate from the western part of the large forest > known as Dymrak. Karameikan Goblins stand about 4 ft > tall. They have chalky skin and rusty brown hair. > Facial hair is uncommon, but is sometimes found among > older goblins. They have flat faces, broad noses, > pointed ears and small sharp fangs fill their wide > mouths. Their eye color range from red to yellow, and > give off a faint red light in the dark. > Goblins mature faster than humans, but have a shorter > lifespan. Few goblins live longer than 60 years. > > Names: > Crude sounding names are used for males and females > alike: Angmar, Arkah, Augh, Bangrah, Dguul, Huzzk, > Khorgul, Marukk, Rooth, V'tamm and Zar. > > Goblins speak Goblin (Dymrak dialect), and the more > intelligent of their race also speak Traladaran or > Thyatian. > > Goblin Society > Like most goblins, Karameikan goblins are tribal. > Their leaders are the ones who are able to dominate > others with physical strength and size. They have no > concept of privacy, living and sleeping in large > common areas. Goblins survive by raiding and stealing. > They make their lairs in ruins or caves. Sometimes > other humanoids are found in the company of goblins, > either as rulers or servants. Karameikan Goblins > usually serve Orcus, Demogorgon or Arik. > > Relations with other races. > The goblins sometimes cooperate with other humanoids, > but no formal alliances have been made with any of > those clans. The humans living in the westernmost > parts of Dymrak are the victims of goblin raids and > relations are openly hostile. Many of the goblin clans > have been used as mercenaries for the Iron Ring, and > the leaders of that organization have been in close > contact with goblin chieftains. The eastern tribes are > mainly loyal to Argos, the green dragon dwelling in > those lands.The goblins fear the elves and avoid > contact with the Vyalia elves living in the far east > of Dymrak. > > The Major Tribes: > > Wolf-Skull (Kloss-Lunk) > Chieftain: Kloss > Symbol: Wolf's Head > The Kloss-Lunk tribe is a relatively small one, > particularily known for their talent for training dire > wolves which are used as mounts. When a young warrior > is coming of age, he gets his own dire wolf, and > losing your mount is a matter of shame among the > Kloss-Lunk. > They can be recognized by their wolf skin cloaks, and > are usually armed with axes and spears. The Kloss-Lunk > are known for their courage, and often fight to the > death rather than flee. Their lair is in the Petrified > Forest, deep within Dymrak. The Petrified forest is a > small area within Dymrak where all the plants and even > some animals have been turned into stone. It was > created by one of the Witches of Dymrak, Esmeralda, a > Hag with medusa-like powers. Esmeralda is allied with > the Kloss-Lunk although they haven't had much contact > in recent years. > > Red-Blade (Gnhasska) > Chieftain: Gnhass > Symbol: Bloodied Sword > The Gnhasska tribe is recognized by their red > clothing. Some times red ornaments made from feathers, > shells, fruit rinds, beads and stones are used aswell. > They are usually armed with short swords and slings. > Their lair is underground within Dymrak. The Gnhasska > do not use dire wolves, but have instead learned to > train Giant Rats which they use as guard animals. > > > Viper (Jaggadash) > Symbol: Snake > The Jaggadash tribe is recognized by their tradition > of decorating their bodies with tatoos. The tribe > symbol, the snake, is a popular pattern, but often > their entire bodies are covered with different tatoos. > The Jaggadash tribe favours the use of warhammers and > daggers. They are a sly tribe, favouring ambush to > head on attacks. They are sometimes mocked by other > tribes for being cowardly. They have an underground > lair within Dymrak. The Jaggadash tribe and several > minor tribes along with it have been subjugated to the > control of Argos, the mighty green dragon living in > the east. > > Yellow-Fang (Faz-Plak) > Chieftain: Plak > Symbol: Ruined Tower > The Faz-Plak tribe once lived in the northern part of > Dymrak, but moved north to the ancient Hutaaka Ruins > known as Xitaqua. They are recognized by their yellow > skin clothes and ornament themselves with heavy iron > collars and arm bands. Their favoured weapons are > short swords and bows. After moving to Xitaqua, the > Faz-Plak learned to train the Semi-Intelligent Rock > Baboons there. They are allied with the Bloodhead > (Vlackagg) Hobgoblins also residing within Xitaqua. > The tribe has connections with the Iron Ring slavers > organization which sometimes employs them as > mercenaries. > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 14:11:08 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: The Goblins of Dymrak In-Reply-To: <20010718174158.26805.qmail@web13108.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Excellent info. I was wondering if you had located them on a map (if not I will soon) > Their lair is in the > Petrified > Forest, deep within Dymrak. The Petrified forest is > a > small area within Dymrak where all the plants and > even > some animals have been turned into stone. It was > created by one of the Witches of Dymrak, Does this have an exact location and how big is it? > Red-Blade (Gnhasska) It could be quite cool to have their leader weild a red steel sword. > Viper (Jaggadash) > The Jaggadash tribe and several > minor tribes along with it have been subjugated to > the > control of Argos, the mighty green dragon living in > the east. Any ideas on this relationship. Does Argos raid villages occationally, or is it more of a tribute? Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 17:09:26 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Iron Ring and B10 in general On Wed, 18 Jul 2001 03:18:15 EDT, Andrew Theisen wrote: >Chris Furneaux wrote: >> >>Well yes and no... yes cause theres no competition and >no cause theres no local demand. Is there anyone in >Karameikos that keeps slaves ? (other then the black >eagle) and thus could be a market (or Villan)< > >Not in Karameikos (except maybe for humanoids in the woods and mountains), but >next-door neighbor Thyatis is definitely a viable market. Possibly even some >of the Borderlands dominions of Darokin (the more unsavory ones, anyway). > Yes, Thyatis is close to the east, but if you have ships (such as the Black Eagle definitely would have had in his barony), Jaibul isn't too far away to the west either. I imagine a good portion of people captured and sold into slavery in Karameikos would be sold in Jaibul because there is less chance of them coming back to Karameikos and revealing anything later... >>What do they do/who are they? What actually happens in >B10 - other then it being so damn good.< > >One of the cells of the Iron Ring discovers documents leading to the Lost >Valley of Hutaaka, and they become intrigued by the possibility of ancient >treasures and/or magic, and hound the PCs (who are also seeking the Valley). > Oh, I can't remember it all, since I don't actually have the module, I've just played it (extensively) a few times, but the last time is a few years back... So if any of the stuff below is incorrect, please point it out if you know better... Basically it all starts in Kelvin where the PCs are hired by a man called Stephano (is that right? I think I changed the name a little IMC so it would be too much like Duke Stefan). He wants them to travel with him east into the wilderness where he and his family lives on the border to the Dymrak Forest by capturing wild horses in the Wufwolde Hills beyond the Kelvin Moor (IIRC, the small fort or homestead is called "Sykiskyn" or some such), only once the PCs get there, they find the homestead under siege by goblins! A token goblin presence must be put down, but it isn't too much because the goblins have already stolen a lot and made off with the horses! The PCs are supposed to go into the forest and find the people and horses captured (the horses are the livelyhood of these people, after all - without them they won't make a profit and will starve!). Several goblin lairs and tribes are detailed here and the PCs can go after all of them. One is in a part of the forest that is completely petrified (this is near the Lake of Dreams), though there is no reason why the forest is petrified, IIRC. Here they find the main goblin lair, most captured people, and the horses. Now, this is a part I don't remember so well... I think the PCs find evidence that the goblins were hired by someone to attack local settlements by someone who are obviously searching for something, but I can't remember the details... Then they return to Sykiskyn (sp?). Next, the situation becomes more stable in the homestead, and the PCs are supposed to go out and look for whoever has been organizing these goblin attacks against the local homesteads, Suskiskyn not being the only one! One tale talks of a mysterious horse creature in the Wufwolde Hills (a Chevall - a centaur like being that can polymorph into a true horse form). If the PCs can find him, he can give them clues to where to look (since the goblins are viewed as a problem by him too), or the PCs can simply go north into the Wufwolde Hills where they should find the ruins of the lost city of Xitaqa (sp?). Golthar, a leader of the Iron Ring (mage 6), is conducting his research here and is the one who has been organizing the goblins into their attacks... The Iron Ring found some historical material that suggested some old magical treasures somewhere in Karameikos, so Golthar has been sent out to find it. He is currently in an old tower when the PCs find Xitaqa, but a lot of goblins are also here, so the PCs must sneak past or fight the goblins, then enter the tower and make their way up to Golthar, forcing them to face his various minions (including a minotaur in an invisible room!). There is a showdown here, which Golthar may or may not survive. He is likely to be killed at some time during the adventure, but if it happens here, another master of the Iron Ring, Karllag (sp?, he is mage 7, IIRC), then takes over his position... Now, the thing the PCs need is an old tapestry in the possession of the family there, although they have no clue of this themselves! The PCs find a magical needle and thread (I think Golthar has it), IIRC, and when used on the tapestry, this needle uses the golden thread to turn the tapestry into a map that highlights Xitaqa, but also clearly indicates a path to a hidden valley in the Black Peak mountains to the north (on the border to Darokin)... This valley is, of course, the Lost Valley of Hutaaka. Next the PCs are supposed to go there, though they'll be harassed by bandits hired by the Iron Ring, as well as the IR itself, along the way. Another encounter is likely to take place in Threshold, I think. After that, the PCs must sneak past the large amount of Gnolls living in the Wufwolde Hills north of Threshold and into the mountains and eventually the Lost Valley... Here they'll find the descendants of the ancient Nithians - the Hutaakans (civilized, jackal-like humanoids) and the Traldar (humans who are still much like people were at Halav's time about 2000 years earlier). The Hutaakans and Traldar have basically have a state of war between them in the valley since they settled here, the Traldar feeling enslaved by the Hutaakans, and the Hutaakans seeing them as rebels. Iron Ring members will also find their way here for a final encounter with the PCs. There is a nasty monster (almost something out of the Cthulhu mythos, though not as tough) in some underground dungeons, but I don't remember why the PCs go there so well... Eventually, the PCs are supposed to defeat all the IR members here (who might want to turn all the valley's inhabitants into slaves) and make their way out with some serious rewards. They cannot end the hostilities between the Traldar and the Hutaakans, though. If you look in the MA 1016 and 1017, you'll find threads for Karameikos which are direct continuations of these plots! This may sound a bit lame, but it's probably because I can't remember all the details, and those are the best parts! For example, when the PCs have to defend Sykiskyn, the adventure has all the stats for both sides, so the DM could just give the PCs the stats of the homesteaders and their equipment and say, "Well, these are the people and the resources you have, so organize your defense!" I love stuff like that, because as DM you can then usually lean back and watch the players go into paranoia-mode as they fear what you'll throw at them and how they'd better come up with some brilliant defense! ;) >>maybe I should've got it when I had the chance.... is >it any good.< > >Intriguing concept (city adventure) and interesting story, but IMO it requires >quite a bit of fleshing out by the DM to really make it work well. > Well, most of the detail is there. I guess the best part of this adventure is that it matters to people somehow - it's not just some meaningless dungeon-crawl where people walk into a hole in the ground and then (hopefully) come out with some treasure and xp... There is a definite plot in this adventure, and everything the NPCs do is completely logical and true to their characters, something we don't see in every adventure, sadly... It details parts of the Karameikos wilderness turning it into a frontier of possibility and adventure, not some barren wasteland, and it has good character description of the NPCs who are all detailed and scripted well and believably. I guess that's what I like about this adventure - no damsel in distress, fabled magical treasure, or other hopelessly outdated plot or hook here, no, the PCs go on this adventure to protect the livelyhood of some really common and believable NPCs by agreeing to transport horses and protect them from assault... Everything after that is slowly and carefully woven into the plot, which gives the adventure credibility and depth, IMHO. >>Thanks for the links they were quite helpful. Are >George's write ups fairly similar to the ones in >B10/B6/GAZ1 ?< > >B10 is one of the best sources on the Iron Ring, but also check out Dragon >Magazine #208(?- Can't recall the number offhand- anyone else know for sure?) >It details the Barony of Halag after the fall of the Black Eagle, and >discusses the Iron Ring somewhat. > What you're looking for is the article, "Karameikos, Ho!" in Dragon no. 206, p.65. >IIRC, the Iron Ring were going to be the subject of a (2nd Edition) module, >but it only exists now as vaporware... > Yes... A shame really. They are the major villains of the two adventures included in the K:KoA set, though. The first being a pretty straight- forward dungeon crawl where the PCs chase the IR after they capture a merchant to be sold to slavery. So the PCs must follow the captors through some secret, and obviously monster-infested, tunnels under Threshold. In the second they are hired by Aleena Halaran to go north into the mountains to find out what happened to a druid she is quite infatuated with. The druid has been bewitched by a hag and has done some pretty bad things in this state, like turning people into pixies (which may also happen to the PCs!) and destroying the crops of the local peasants. The PCs don't know this, of course, and go north to find out what's going on, and the Iron Ring, eager for revenge over the previous adventure, sends some assassins after them, although these end up as victims of the hag! - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 20:01:46 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: M Novy Subject: Re: Proposal for Regional Mystaran Feats Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Im not sure if he is on the 3e list or not....i have emailed him a few times, but that was about it. I would love to work on some of those feats with someone......but I actually already have incorporated some of his. I think that it would be easier to do most of them by either race for demihumans or kingdom/nation for the humans.... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 19:50:24 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: [mystara3E] Proposal for Regional Mystaran Feats] Comments: To: mystara3E@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Andrew Theisen" > > My reading of Gaz2 doesn't give me this impression. Aside from the > fact that the Gaz devotes several pages to describing different ethnicities > - Alasiyan, Makistani, Nithian, Alphatian, and Thyatian- descriptions > of the various emirates (particularly the Emirate of Makistan, populated > primarily by, oddly enough, the aforementioned Makistani) leads me to > the conclusion that there are many different "relevant" ethnicities. A > Makistani True Believer seems still to possess different traits than > would a Thyatian True Believer or an Alasiyan True Believer. On the other hand, the differences between Alasiyans and Thyatians in Ylaruam would seem to be limited to slight differences in appearance. If we look at the Riding skill check, Makistani and Alasiyani both get the "born in the saddle" bonus (which I translated to the Saddleback feat). Since Thyatians and Alphatians are described as being assimilated into the Alasiyan culture, that leaves Nithians as the only one of the five major ethnic groups that might not get that bonus. Similarly, the rules for the Storytelling check have not ethnic differences whatsoever. The few ethnic differences that I found don't seem to amount to that much -- for example, we could easily deduce that Makistani are more likely to learn Ethengarian than any of the other available bonus languages and that far more of them are of the Preceptor faction than the Kin faction, but none of those differences seem to translate to anything significant in game terms. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 19:57:47 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Damocles, the Emerondians & other Mystaran mysteries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Agathokles" > Here is a long project that is coming to an end. I've sent to the list a > small portion, the Pachydermions, but now I'm finally ready to present a > long History of Damocles, the planet that exploded in AC 1010. It is a > loose timeline, which accomodates many events taking place of Mystara, > and provides a framework for a mini-campaign setting on Damocles (taking > place somewhere in the past, of course). I like this material, especially the explanation of who the Dark Elves of Gaz 7 really were. One question though -- given that the last major event before 1010 AC occurs in 960 AC, have you considered having Damocles blow up a few years earlier? The explosion of Damocles would seem to provide a nice explanation for the origin of that huge Meteor that struck the Glantri/Darokin border in 1006 AC if said explosion occurred a year or two earlier. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 20:07:31 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: M Novy Subject: Re: Iron Ring details Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I have b10 and it is an awesome module. It does have quite a bit about the iron ring. One of the best things is that it kinda maps out the way the Iron Ring functions as far as a rank and leaders and exc.... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 20:09:51 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: M Novy Subject: Re: Mystara in Dungeon Magazine Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I have a few of the issues of dungeon that have Mystara adventures, but really in-depth. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 17:46:04 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: The Goblins of Dymrak On Wed, 18 Jul 2001 19:41:58 +0200, =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= wrote: >This is a preliminary version of the Goblin article. >The material is based on B10, Monster Manual, Orcs of >Thar, Gaz1 and information from my own campaign. >Feedback is welcome! :) > (snip descriptions) Wow. Thanks for posting this. This is pretty much information on the various tribes from B10, IIRC. Since I don't have that adventure myself and plan to use the goblins in the near future, this will be most useful IMC! My own plan is to combine this stuff with an adventure from Dungeon. I haven't read the entire adventure yet, but it seems compatible with some changes. Basically, the goblins have been driven back by the Alfheim elves settling the region, but now somebody is uniting the goblin tribes into fighting back and killing the elves... But the idea is only just being planned, so I can't offer much detail for it now. Your description will go a very long way toward adding specific detail to this, though, so thanks again. - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 19:00:49 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Damocles, the Emerondians & other Mystaran mysteries In-Reply-To: <01b101c10fee$e1403880$e0a61a26@q6s7w2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > have you > considered having > Damocles blow up a few years earlier? The explosion > of Damocles > would seem to provide a nice explanation for the > origin of that huge > Meteor that struck the Glantri/Darokin border in > 1006 AC if said > explosion occurred a year or two earlier. it could even be a long time ago. Who knows how long the astroid may have traveled for. Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 19:08:47 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: The Goblins of Dymrak In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > My own plan is to combine this stuff with an > adventure from Dungeon. I > haven't read the entire adventure yet, but it seems > compatible with some > changes. Basically, the goblins have been driven > back by the Alfheim elves > settling the region, but now somebody is uniting the > goblin tribes into > fighting back and killing the elves... But the idea > is only just being > planned, so I can't offer much detail for it now. I would be interested to see how the goblins orginize themselves to fight back. I have a PC with a castle in the reagon and one of his more recent actions was massing an army and rampaging throught the forest driving off any goblin hodes to settle it. I want to re-introduce the goblins but haven't worked out how yet. Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 21:24:15 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: larry lamb Subject: Re: The Goblins of Dymrak In-Reply-To: <20010719020847.90600.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Isent there a adult green dragon in that forest? --- Chris Furneaux wrote: > > My own plan is to combine this stuff with an > > adventure from Dungeon. I > > haven't read the entire adventure yet, but it > seems > > compatible with some > > changes. Basically, the goblins have been driven > > back by the Alfheim elves > > settling the region, but now somebody is uniting > the > > goblin tribes into > > fighting back and killing the elves... But the > idea > > is only just being > > planned, so I can't offer much detail for it now. > > I would be interested to see how the goblins > orginize > themselves to fight back. I have a PC with a castle > in > the reagon and one of his more recent actions was > massing an army and rampaging throught the forest > driving off any goblin hodes to settle it. I want to > re-introduce the goblins but haven't worked out how > yet. > > Chris. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ===== The "Fighting Bunnys" main site: http://www.angelfire.com/on2/myrobotechgames/index.html To group site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RobotechGame __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 21:27:02 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: larry lamb Subject: Re: Damocles, the Emerondians & other Mystaran mysteries In-Reply-To: <20010719020049.52611.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii i thought that the "immortals" sent it to mystara(?) --- Chris Furneaux wrote: > > have you > > considered having > > Damocles blow up a few years earlier? The > explosion > > of Damocles > > would seem to provide a nice explanation for the > > origin of that huge > > Meteor that struck the Glantri/Darokin border in > > 1006 AC if said > > explosion occurred a year or two earlier. > > it could even be a long time ago. Who knows how long > the astroid may have traveled for. > > Chris. > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ===== The "Fighting Bunnys" main site: http://www.angelfire.com/on2/myrobotechgames/index.html To group site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RobotechGame __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 07:27:10 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: Damocles, the Emerondians & other Mystaran mysteries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I thought an entropy immmortal diverted it from its original course!! (thanatos, probably) Thibault Sarlat. ICQ 16622177. homepage http://www.mystara.fr.st Join me at: thibsylv@club-internet.fr or at clenarius@hotmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From: larry lamb To: Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 6:27 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Damocles, the Emerondians & other Mystaran mysteries > i thought that the "immortals" sent it to mystara(?) > > > > --- Chris Furneaux wrote: > > > have you > > > considered having > > > Damocles blow up a few years earlier? The > > explosion > > > of Damocles > > > would seem to provide a nice explanation for the > > > origin of that huge > > > Meteor that struck the Glantri/Darokin border in > > > 1006 AC if said > > > explosion occurred a year or two earlier. > > > > it could even be a long time ago. Who knows how long > > the astroid may have traveled for. > > > > Chris. > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: > > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > To unsubscribe, send email to > > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > > ===== > The "Fighting Bunnys" main site: > > http://www.angelfire.com/on2/myrobotechgames/index.html > > To group site: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RobotechGame > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:41:43 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Iron ring and slaves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christopher Cherrington wrote: > > This is true, but with the fall of the Romans, many new nations created > feudal systems that could not support slaves. So the new leaders instituted > serfdom. Sure, but: 1) The Thyatian Empire has not (jet) fallen. 2) The religious changes that happened in the Roman Empire during its decline have no equivalent in Thyatis. > Where you work for me and live on my land and I will protect you. > Why? Because I am Roman Blood, and God gives me the right! But slavery was > for a long time not re-introduced until nations of Western Europe was able > to financially support colonies with slaves. Also, until they could find suitable colonies. Before the discovery of America, the potential colonies were quite limited (essentially none). > So when you have a Rome right > next to a feudal system with serfs, to me it makes no sense. On one side of > the border you are considered a slave and have no rights (except you can't > be maimed or killed); on the other side of the border, you are considered a > 'freeman' and can earn only enough money to pay your taxes and have limited > freedoms (but you can pick your own wife!). This does not affect our problem (where do Thyatian slaves come from). The fact that Karameikos does not allow slavery (nor serfdom) may be a problem itself, but I don't see how it affects the origin of Thyatian slaves. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:50:27 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Damocles, the Emerondians & other Mystaran mysteries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Knott wrote: > > I like this material, especially the explanation of who the Dark Elves of > Gaz 7 really were. One question though -- given that the last major > event before 1010 AC occurs in 960 AC, have you considered having > Damocles blow up a few years earlier? The explosion of Damocles > would seem to provide a nice explanation for the origin of that huge > Meteor that struck the Glantri/Darokin border in 1006 AC if said > explosion occurred a year or two earlier. It is entirely possible, but I vaguely remember some canon (or some fan created stuff) that told that Damocles exploded in AC1010, giving birth to the asteroid belt. BTW, the meteor that hits Glantri was sent by the Master of Hule, so any tampering with the original asteroid was probably done by Loki/Bozdogan. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:53:46 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Damocles, the Emerondians & other Mystaran mysteries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christopher Cherrington wrote: > >> They had established a number of large extra-planetary colonies, >> reaching the asteroid belt around Damocles first, and Mystara's >> invisible moon, Patera, next. > > Good story, one point; I thought the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter > was created when Damocles was destroyed, not that it existed between > Damocles and Jupiter? Oh, sure, that's a different asteroid belt. As I envision it, Damocles does not have a moon, but an asteroid belt around the planet (much like Mars' Phobos and Deimos, but more of them). The asteroid belt between "Mars" and "Jupiter" is still created by the lesser fragments of Damocles after its destruction. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:14:30 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Francesco Defferrari Subject: what slavery is.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In my opinion slavery was considered evil even during the times of the = roman empire, as it's proved by the revolt of Spartacus and the early = christians struggle against slavery. Slavery was approved by the = government and by the richest members of the society, but the system was = enforced with strenght and laws, not because was perceived "good". The = common people in the roman times thought that slavery was an unavoidable = and normal thing, but no one could seriously say "our slavery is good". = Even the romans could not justify slavery, they only could say "we are = stronger than you" but the subject people and the neighbours of the = romans perceived this as evil.... What slavery was ? slavery was to go = in some place, defeat the army of that place, split families, rape = women, transport people to many miles in terrible conditions and sell = them in a market. And then how was to live as a slave ? if you were = lucky you could even became a favourite of your master and be treated = well, but if you were unlucky ? Taken slave as a child, you will never = see you parents, your land and your family again. You will have no = rights, your master or even his guards could rape, whip or torture you = anytime, you will be forced to work all day, eat leftovers, die young = for exaustion or just because your master was tired of you. Slaves had = no rights in the Roman republic, they could be whipped, raped, tortured = or killed as their master desired. Only much later, during the empire, = was prohibited to kill and punish slaves without a reason, but obviously = a reason was very easy to find and no one minds much about a slave... You can seriously say that people in Thyatis consider all this right and = good ? You can seriously say that clerics of Odin and Tarastia can = approve slavery ? Slavery is that, there is not another kind of slavery, = there is not a "good" kind of slavery. If in Mystara there are no = churches that oppose slavery, well in mystara there are no good = churches...A good immortal cannot ignore that topic.. he/she has to = decide if he approve slavery (and then he will be evil, not even = neutral) or not. And if you could say "but a neutral immortal can = approve slavery" tell this to the child who saw his parents die and then = was taken as a pleasure slave for his master... because that kind of = thing is the worst conseguence of slavery.. what could say to him Vanya = or Ixion ? I don't mind all that was your fault ? That was your doom ? = And the same reason is for war... sometimes war can be justified for = self defense, but if war is not for self defence, then it's EVIL. = Because war is not something like.. "Sorry, sir, can i attack you ?" "Oh = sure sir, come, please". War is pain and death, war is men tortured, = women raped, childrens killed, home burned... That is war... not some = chivalric sport... I think that the PC have to see what war is, even if = after seeing this they don't mind about it... In the RW churches often = approved war and slavery because they never had an immortal able to = speak with them and control them.. but in a fantasy world where = immortals can speak with their followers, either all the immortals are = evil, or some of them oppose slavery and war... Francesco "What can change the nature of a man ?" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 19:20:19 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Agathokles Subject: Re: what slavery is.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Francesco Defferrari wrote: > > The common people in the roman times thought that slavery was an unavoidable and normal thing, but no one could seriously say "our slavery is good". Even the romans could not justify slavery, they only could say "we are stronger than you" but the subject people and the neighbours of the romans perceived this as evil.... That's exactly what I mean for not perceiving it as Evil. I mean, there is Evil and evil. Also, I think the Romans, like all ancient people, had a very different perception of the foreign people than us, that allowed them to distinguish citizens from slaves without concern for human rights. Actually, the concept of human rights did not exist as such among the ancients, at least up to the middle Republic. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 19:13:27 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: what slavery is.. In-Reply-To: <00b101c11055$0a1e3160$107f1c97@tin.it> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Throughout history, most societies have been based on slavery. Most people would probably not perceive slavery as good, but probably not as evil either. In fact most people in a slave holding society wouldnt question it. There are examples from ancient greece, where slaves have lead successful revolts against their city state and turned their masters into slaves. Never did it occur to them that the system of slavery itself could be changed. Another matter. You are right that the life of a slave wasn't a pleasant one. However, slavery in antiquity was very different from the system in the American South. Revolts did occur, but most of the time the slaves of antiquity accepted their fate because: 1) There were certain norms for how to treat a slave. There were no laws protecting them, but they were not treated as cruelly as in the South of the USA. 2) It was possible for a slave to obtain freedom. This meant that the slaves themselves could work within the system and be rewarded for it. The general issue here though, is the encounter between reality and fantasy. From our point of view, slavery, serfdom, in fact anything short of democracy should be considered evil. All the other systems are systems of oppression. However, would it make sense to kill Stefan because his system of Feudalistic Monarchy is evil? Should it even be possible to convince everyone into turning the Known World into a democracy? I don't really see that happening in my campaign... H�vard --- Francesco Defferrari wrote: > In my opinion slavery was considered evil even > during the times of the roman empire, as it's proved > by the revolt of Spartacus and the early christians > struggle against slavery. Slavery was approved by > the government and by the richest members of the > society, but the system was enforced with strenght > and laws, not because was perceived "good". The > common people in the roman times thought that > slavery was an unavoidable and normal thing, but no > one could seriously say "our slavery is good". Even > the romans could not justify slavery, they only > could say "we are stronger than you" but the subject > people and the neighbours of the romans perceived > this as evil.... What slavery was ? slavery was to > go in some place, defeat the army of that place, > split families, rape women, transport people to many > miles in terrible conditions and sell them in a > market. And then how was to live as a slave ? if you > were lucky you could even became a favourite of your > master and be treated well, but if you were unlucky > ? Taken slave as a child, you will never see you > parents, your land and your family again. You will > have no rights, your master or even his guards could > rape, whip or torture you anytime, you will be > forced to work all day, eat leftovers, die young for > exaustion or just because your master was tired of > you. Slaves had no rights in the Roman republic, > they could be whipped, raped, tortured or killed as > their master desired. Only much later, during the > empire, was prohibited to kill and punish slaves > without a reason, but obviously a reason was very > easy to find and no one minds much about a slave... > You can seriously say that people in Thyatis > consider all this right and good ? You can seriously > say that clerics of Odin and Tarastia can approve > slavery ? Slavery is that, there is not another kind > of slavery, there is not a "good" kind of slavery. > If in Mystara there are no churches that oppose > slavery, well in mystara there are no good > churches...A good immortal cannot ignore that > topic.. he/she has to decide if he approve slavery > (and then he will be evil, not even neutral) or not. > And if you could say "but a neutral immortal can > approve slavery" tell this to the child who saw his > parents die and then was taken as a pleasure slave > for his master... because that kind of thing is the > worst conseguence of slavery.. what could say to him > Vanya or Ixion ? I don't mind all that was your > fault ? That was your doom ? And the same reason is > for war... sometimes war can be justified for self > defense, but if war is not for self defence, then > it's EVIL. Because war is not something like.. > "Sorry, sir, can i attack you ?" "Oh sure sir, come, > please". War is pain and death, war is men tortured, > women raped, childrens killed, home burned... That > is war... not some chivalric sport... I think that > the PC have to see what war is, even if after seeing > this they don't mind about it... In the RW churches > often approved war and slavery because they never > had an immortal able to speak with them and control > them.. but in a fantasy world where immortals can > speak with their followers, either all the immortals > are evil, or some of them oppose slavery and war... > > Francesco > > "What can change the nature of a man ?" > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 19:27:37 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Agathokles Subject: Re: what slavery is.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Francesco Defferrari wrote: > > You can seriously say that people in Thyatis consider all this right and good ? You can seriously say that clerics of Odin and Tarastia can approve slavery ? Slavery is that, there is not another kind of slavery, there is not a "good" kind of slavery. Tarastia is LN, IMO. She is interested in the existance and respect of laws, but whether this laws are good or evil, it doesn't matter. Also, does the fact that slavery existed during the ancient times make the ancients, their rulers or their gods evil? I don't think so. > If in Mystara there are no churches that oppose slavery, well in mystara there are no good churches...A good immortal cannot ignore that topic.. he/she has to decide if he approve slavery (and then he will be evil, not even neutral) or not. And if you could say "but a neutral immortal can approve slavery" tell this to the child who saw his parents die and then was taken as a pleasure slave for his master... because that kind of thing is the worst conseguence of slavery.. what could say to him Vanya or Ixion ? I don't mind all that was your fault ? That was your doom ? And the same reason is for war... sometimes war can be justified for self defense, but if war is not for self defence, then it's EVIL. Because war is not something Vanya is not noyed for her pleasantness. Nor is Ixion. Both condone inquisition, which is not better than slavery, per se. BTW, Vanya *is* the goddess of unprovoked war. And all of them are considered Neutral at best... so I don't think that many Immortals would have anything to say about slavery. Just to skip to Alphatia, she's supposed to be a LG Immortal of *Peace*... jet she is the major supporter of a CE empire with much more slaves, and a great deal more social/political inequality than Thyatis. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 19:43:17 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: The Goblins of Dymrak In-Reply-To: <013801c10fcd$5abafa00$8b39abd0@tds.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- George Hrabovsky skrev: > Nice work! I am compiling a series of > "mini-Gazetteers" on the peoples of > Karameikos and I would like to use some of this, if > I may. Sure go ahead! As long as I get credits for my work you may use any of it. I've actually been thinking about making such a mini-gaz myself, so Im interested in seeing what you come up with! :) H�vard ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 20:04:09 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: The Goblins of Dymrak In-Reply-To: <20010718211108.12686.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Chris Furneaux skrev: > Excellent info. I was wondering if you had located > them on a map (if not I will soon) The tribes are all marked on the map in B10. These tribes all live in the north of the forest, west of the river leading from the Lake of Lost Dreams. > > Their lair is in the > > Petrified > > Forest, deep within Dymrak. The Petrified forest > is > > a > > small area within Dymrak where all the plants and > > even > > some animals have been turned into stone. It was > > created by one of the Witches of Dymrak, > > Does this have an exact location and how big is it? It is in the north of the forest close to the river leading down from the Lake of Lost Dreams. > > Red-Blade (Gnhasska) > > It could be quite cool to have their leader weild a > red steel sword. I like that. Any ideas for a story about how such a sword found its way here? It could reveal the background of the entire tribe.. > > Viper (Jaggadash) > > The Jaggadash tribe and several > > minor tribes along with it have been subjugated to > > the > > control of Argos, the mighty green dragon living > in > > the east. > > Any ideas on this relationship. Does Argos raid > villages occationally, or is it more of a tribute? The way I have portrayed him in my campaign, Argos doesn't leave his lair very often. Possibly he is reveered as a sort of god by these goblins or he uses servants to dominate them. Not sure exactly what kind of servants he would use though...ideas for that one? H�vard ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:06:28 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: III Subject: Re: Mystara in Dungeon Magazine Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >44 An interesting mystery, based on events from PWA1010. This one is set in Glantri right? What is the mystery? Something to do with the missing Etienne d'Amberville? Or Margaret Hillsbury's murder? Thanks for the recomendations Dave, these are all going on my list of Dungeons to look for. Anyone else have any information or recomendations? Andy Morrow III _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:22:02 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Roger WINTER Subject: Stop teasing me Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It is clear that everybody who has B10 thinks it is absolutely the bee's = knees. I do keep checking the auction sites. BUT I CAN'T FIND IT ANYWHERE! I'd wait for the ESD to be released, but I live in the UK, so even then I = won't be able to get it. If someone were to scan it in its entirety and either e-mail it to me or = post it somewhere - not here - I promise to not squeal. Hammer of Ulric "Arioch! Arioch! Blood and souls for my lord Arioch!" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 20:52:38 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Caroletti Subject: Re: Damocles, the Emerondians & other Mystaran mysteries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > BTW, the meteor that hits Glantri was sent by the Master of Hule, so any > tampering with the original asteroid was probably done by Loki/Bozdogan. I think it was Alphaks that did. It was a bad move on his part and he had to remain low for sometime not to reveal the existance of the Brotherhood of the Shadow (or what was the name again?). Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 20:55:08 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Caroletti Subject: Update at "Southern Skothar" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, Southern Skothar Online Gazetteer (found at http://www.geocities.com/tangormina) has been updated. The update includes a short atlas of Minaea (just the adaption of the work for the Almanac). Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 13:57:01 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: James Mishler Subject: Re: Damocles, the Emerondians & other Mystaran mysteries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > BTW, the meteor that hits Glantri was sent by the Master of Hule, so any > tampering with the original asteroid was probably done by Loki/Bozdogan. Actually, the meteor was diverted from its natural course by Alphaks, who had aimed it initially at Darokin City. His calculations didn't come out correct, which is why it hit where it did. People believe it was a part of the Curse of the Master, but he relly had nothing to do with it... James ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:12:36 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Mischa Gelman Subject: Re: what slavery is.. In-Reply-To: <00b101c11055$0a1e3160$107f1c97@tin.it> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Francesco Defferrari wrote: > In my opinion slavery was considered evil even during the times of the > roman empire Heck, even before then. The Torah was given between 3000-4000 years ago and only allows slavery for brief periods of time, with all slaves being released every 50 years. It was not outlawed, but was restricted due to its evil nature. Also, who said Mystara has to match up wholly with the real world? Gender roles are much looser in Mystara, numerous G-ds exist, magic shapes the activities of many nations, monsters stalk the land, firepower is (basically) non-existant in an otherwise late-medieval world, some powers have influence across the globe...why should views on slavery coincide at all with those of medieval Europe? - Mischa While television is supposed to be 'free', it has in fact become the creature, the servant and indeed the prostitute of merchandising - Walter Lippman, 1959 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 12:02:49 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dave Keyser Organization: Palmchip Subject: Re: Mystara in Dungeon Magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit III wrote: > >44 An interesting mystery, based on events from PWA1010. > > This one is set in Glantri right? What is the mystery? Something to do > with the missing Etienne d'Amberville? Or Margaret Hillsbury's murder? Some Ylari artifacts from the site discovered in 1010AC are smuggled into Glantri for a local museum. A Ylari man demands that they be returned to his people, and when brushed off he tries to steal them back. He is executed by chopping off his hand. Then people at the museum start dying at night, and are found in the morning. Dave ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 22:03:47 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Mystara in Dungeon Magazine Dave Keyser wrote: > 23 The only adventure set in Soderfjord outside of GAZ7, it is a somewhat typical > 'destroy the threat from the wilderness'. The bad guys are lizardmen, but the leader > is going to be a surprise for the PCs. Also describes the local militia. I'd be interested to know more about that local militia, which jarldom is featured, and any general information on the area. Will somebody help me out here, please? Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 16:18:15 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: ramhog Subject: Re: Stop teasing me In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > >If someone were to scan it in its entirety and either e-mail it to >me or post it somewhere - not here - I promise to not squeal. Hey, if I had to buy it, you have to buy it! ;-) Seriously, when I was collecting all this stuff originally (about 10 years ago) that was the one module, along with CM7 The Tree of Life, that I could *never* find. Of course that was before I discovered the Internet. Hell, back then I was able to pick which copy of a module I wanted!! And still no B10. It took my "I hate everyone who owns Night's Dark Terror" post to finally score a copy. Now, finally, I can hate myself! VVH -- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:26:35 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Stop teasing me In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > I'd wait for the ESD to be released, but I live in > the UK, so even then I won't be able to get it. I'm shit outta luck too. > If someone were to scan it in its entirety and > either e-mail it to me or post it somewhere - not > here - I promise to not squeal. If you do get a response, I want one too.... Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:35:19 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: The Goblins of Dymrak In-Reply-To: <20010719180409.9089.qmail@web13107.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > The tribes are all marked on the map in B10. These > tribes all live in the north of the forest, west of > the river leading from the Lake of Lost Dreams. in that case, could someone mark it on a map (what is the scale of the one in B10?) and post it (or send it to me) > > > Red-Blade (Gnhasska) > > > > It could be quite cool to have their leader weild > > a red steel sword. > > I like that. Any ideas for a story about how such a > sword found its way here? It could reveal the > background of the entire tribe.. It could be related to the blue dagger of the master. They could also have been part of the great horde, and aquired the blade while in hule. Perhaps they originated around hule and when the great horde came they were facinated at the legend of the blue blade and went of seeking it. Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 00:27:54 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Francesco Defferrari Subject: R: Re: [MYSTARA] what slavery is.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Tarastia LN ? She is the goddess of revenge against evil, not the goddess of war ! Anyway, in your campaign you can make her as you please, but then in your campaign slavery is good ? in your campaign the PC fight against humanoids and then they don't see the evil around them ?... there is no one who opposes slavery ? Your PCs thinks that slaves are all happy ? I don't want to judge your choices, but my point was that in a fantasy world where gods speak with their clerics, the gods of "good" MUST fight slavery and unprovoked war, or they are not good gods ... I don't see how you can deny that... Francesco "What can change the nature of a man ?" -----Messaggio Originale----- Da: "Agathokles" A: Data invio: gioved� 19 luglio 2001 19.27 Oggetto: Re: [MYSTARA] what slavery is.. > Francesco Defferrari wrote: > > > > You can seriously say that people in Thyatis consider all this right and good ? You can seriously say that clerics of Odin and Tarastia can approve slavery ? Slavery is that, there is not another kind of slavery, there is not a "good" kind of slavery. > > Tarastia is LN, IMO. She is interested in the existance and respect of > laws, but whether this laws are good or evil, it doesn't matter. Also, > does the fact that slavery existed during the ancient times make the > ancients, their rulers or their gods evil? I don't think so. > > > If in Mystara there are no churches that oppose slavery, well in mystara there are no good churches...A good immortal cannot ignore that topic.. he/she has to decide if he approve slavery (and then he will be evil, not even neutral) or not. And if you could say "but a neutral immortal can approve slavery" tell this to the child who saw his parents die and then was taken as a pleasure slave for his master... because that kind of thing is the worst conseguence of slavery.. what could say to him Vanya or Ixion ? I don't mind all that was your fault ? That was your doom ? And the same reason is for war... sometimes war can be justified for self defense, but if war is not for self defence, then it's EVIL. Because war is not something > > Vanya is not noyed for her pleasantness. Nor is Ixion. Both condone > inquisition, which is not better than slavery, per se. > BTW, Vanya *is* the goddess of unprovoked war. > > And all of them are considered Neutral at best... so I don't think that > many Immortals would have anything to say about slavery. Just to skip to > Alphatia, she's supposed to be a LG Immortal of *Peace*... jet she is > the major supporter of a CE empire with much more slaves, and a great > deal more social/political inequality than Thyatis. > -- > > > Giampaolo Agosta ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 00:39:12 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Francesco Defferrari Subject: R: Re: [MYSTARA] what slavery is.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I agree with you regarding the opinions of the common people in a medieval setting, but i cannot believe that there are good gods who don't oppose slavery and unprovoked war.... humans and other races probably are blind to the true evil in the world, but the gods have to be wise to become gods, and they cannot possibly be so blind ! Francesco "What can change the nature of a man ?" -----Messaggio Originale----- Da: "Havard Faanes" A: Data invio: gioved� 19 luglio 2001 19.13 Oggetto: Re: [MYSTARA] what slavery is.. > Throughout history, most societies have been based on > slavery. Most people would probably not perceive > slavery as good, but probably not as evil either. In > fact most people in a slave holding society wouldnt > question it. There are examples from ancient greece, > where slaves have lead successful revolts against > their city state and turned their masters into slaves. > Never did it occur to them that the system of slavery > itself could be changed. > > Another matter. You are right that the life of a slave > wasn't a pleasant one. However, slavery in antiquity > was very different from the system in the American > South. Revolts did occur, but most of the time the > slaves of antiquity accepted their fate because: > > 1) There were certain norms for how to treat a slave. > There were no laws protecting them, but they were not > treated as cruelly as in the South of the USA. > > 2) It was possible for a slave to obtain freedom. This > meant that the slaves themselves could work within the > system and be rewarded for it. > > The general issue here though, is the encounter > between reality and fantasy. From our point of view, > slavery, serfdom, in fact anything short of democracy > should be considered evil. All the other systems are > systems of oppression. However, would it make sense to > kill Stefan because his system of Feudalistic Monarchy > is evil? Should it even be possible to convince > everyone into turning the Known World into a > democracy? > I don't really see that happening in my campaign... > > H�vard ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 00:45:36 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Francesco Defferrari Subject: R: Re: [MYSTARA] what slavery is.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Exactly my point.. in a world where gods speak human rights probably have to be much more developed than in a "normal" medieval world... Francesco "What can change the nature of a man ?" -----Messaggio Originale----- Da: "Mischa Gelman" A: Data invio: gioved� 19 luglio 2001 22.12 Oggetto: Re: [MYSTARA] what slavery is.. > On Thu, 19 Jul 2001, Francesco Defferrari wrote: > > > In my opinion slavery was considered evil even during the times of the > > roman empire > > Heck, even before then. The Torah was given between 3000-4000 years ago > and only allows slavery for brief periods of time, with all slaves being > released every 50 years. It was not outlawed, but was restricted due to > its evil nature. > > Also, who said Mystara has to match up wholly with the real world? Gender > roles are much looser in Mystara, numerous G-ds exist, magic shapes the > activities of many nations, monsters stalk the land, firepower is > (basically) non-existant in an otherwise late-medieval world, some powers > have influence across the globe...why should views on slavery coincide at > all with those of medieval Europe? > > - Mischa > > While television is supposed to be 'free', it has in fact become the > creature, the servant and indeed the prostitute of merchandising - Walter > Lippman, 1959 > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 00:57:22 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: what slavery is.. In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Mischa Gelman skrev: > have influence across the globe...why should views > on slavery coincide at > all with those of medieval Europe? There is no reason why it has to. On the other hand why shouldnt it? The reason why I usually look for real world historical comparisons is to achieve a sense of authenticity. I can change this but if I do, it should be important for my style of gaming or for the story I am trying to tell. For instance. In general, If I want to run a Roman Empire style campaign, slavery wouldnt be questioned. However, if the campaign was about Slaves leading a rebellion then the evils of slavery would have been the focus of the campaign. H�vard ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 16:02:55 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dave Keyser Organization: Palmchip Subject: Re: R: Re: [MYSTARA] what slavery is.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Francesco Defferrari wrote: > Exactly my point.. in a world where gods speak human rights probably have to > be much more developed than in a "normal" medieval world... > > Francesco But what Immortals would care about eradicating slavery? Which ones would make it a driving issue? I can't think of any offhand, although there might be a couple. Wasn't one of the main points of WOTI is that the Immortals don't have enough concern for lowly mortals? That they are too wrapped up in their own regions of interest and power? Human rights or sentient rights seem to be one of the Immortals lesser priorities, below their own major projects. There are several good examples in the books of how an Immortal shaped a society to his or her liking. But this was often according to the Immortal's own personal preferences and prejudices rather than to an abstract or absolute set of principles. And even then, it only influences that one race or group. Dave Keyser ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 20:12:53 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: The Goblins of Dymrak MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > Red-Blade (Gnhasska) > > > > It could be quite cool to have their leader weild a > > red steel sword. > > I like that. Any ideas for a story about how such a > sword found its way here? It could reveal the > background of the entire tribe.. I ran a modified version of this in Norwold, using the Wolfskull and Red-Blade tribes, and the Red-Blade leader had a red steel dagger +2, that the tribe took its name from. I never wrote a history of it, but I was working on the premise that the tribe found the dagger somehow and took their name from it, passing it down from chieftain to chieftain. With the short lifespan of goblins, it wouldn't even need to have been *that* long ago. Maybe the goblins slew an adventurer that had the dagger, or maybe a wizard left it for them as an experiment. There are many ways for the red steel to show up there. Unfortunately, the PC who ended up with the knife has since lost it (threw it at a spectre, and then was forced to flee). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 17:42:23 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: The Goblins of Dymrak In-Reply-To: <20010719180409.9089.qmail@web13107.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Any ideas on this relationship. Does Argos raid > > villages occationally, or is it more of a tribute? > > The way I have portrayed him in my campaign, Argos > doesn't leave his lair very often. Possibly he is > reveered as a sort of god by these goblins or he > uses > servants to dominate them. Not sure exactly what > kind > of servants he would use though...ideas for that > one? Well, I think that being revered as a god is good. Perhaps the goblins that they need to keep him happy or they will get bad luck... "their god will be displeased" .. "you have angered our god, he shall summon the clouds to swallow you" It could be a simbiotic relationship... The goblins feed him and ensure he is sustained, while he provides motovation, order to their society, and a degree of protection. I don't think that he would affect "what" they do, just how they do it and what they look for. They still go raid villages, and he won't help, but they will bring him things and he might eat any adventurers that come looking. I think we need to work out his personallity a bit more though to see how he should interact. Chris. P.S. sorry I posted the "stop teasing me" post to the list.... wasn't thinking straight...oopps... ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: There are very few problems that cannot be solved by orders ending with 'or die.' ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 18:44:56 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: The Goblins of Dymrak In-Reply-To: <002901c110b0$b8a4c860$e0511f42@D56DN901> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Red-Blade tribes, and the Red-Blade leader had a red > steel dagger +2, that > the tribe took its name from. I never wrote a > history of it, but I was > working on the premise that the tribe found the > dagger somehow and took > their name from it, passing it down from chieftain > to chieftain. With the > short lifespan of goblins, it wouldn't even need to > have been *that* long > ago. Maybe the goblins slew an adventurer that had > the dagger, or maybe a > wizard left it for them as an experiment Maybe it is more handywork of the dragon. What if the dagger(or sword) was actually intelegent, and was advising whoever was in charge. Perhaps it was created by the green dragon to do this... so the goblin tribes would not fight, and would really be working for him to an extent. As you say, it does not need to be that long ago. They could even be a branch of one of the other tribes that he managed to get to break away with the discovery of the dagger. Thoughts? Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 21:41:01 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: James Mishler Subject: Slavery in the Known World, Part 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit By nation, current as of 1000 AC. Note that the national entries have changed somewhat to reflect political and social realities as they developed over the course of the development of the Gazetteer series. Also, in some cases, I have extrapolated on existing material, so, as with any of my materials, these are my own scribblings, and not Canon material. Next (maybe tomorrow, maybe next week), Attitudes on Slavery by Immortals... Alfheim - Alfheimers abhor the concept of slavery, however, due to their insular and xenophobic nature they tend to do little about it. Non-elven slaves that escape to Alfheim are on their own, as long as they don't get in anyone's way. Some individual elves might help them, but most will believe it is up to the escapee to look out for himself. Slave owners may not generally cross the border to recapture escapees. Slave owners may not bring slaves into Alfheim; they will be turned back at the border. In any case, all rules are moot when elven slaves are concerned; Alfheimers will kill or die to help free elven slaves, and eliminate the slave owners without pity or remorse. Alphatia - Alphatia is one of the largest slave-holding societies on Mystara. Slavery is not so much a "position" as it is a "caste." If you have magical power, you rule. If you don't have magical power, and someone that does, does not favor you, you are a slave, or a servant (or, rarely, a freeman if you have some wealth). That is the way of life. Slaves in Alphatia have no rights. Slavery in Alphatia grew out of the need for manual labor, as the powerful magics of the Alphatians failed most of the time on their new world. Thus, the peoples they conquered came to serve. Slaves are often sold, both within and without Alphatia proper. Slavery is common on the mainland, on Bellissaria, Qeodhar, and in Esterhold, rarer in the Alatian Islands and on the Isle of Dawn (save Thothia, where it is ubiquitous), and all but non-existent in Norwold (save in Landfall). Atruaghin Tribes - The Atruaghin, for the most part, find the concept of slavery distasteful, at least, the concept of enslaving another fellow tribesman (the Tiger Tribe and the Turtle Tribe are the exceptions). This is an outgrowth of their enslavement by the Red Orcs centuries ago. However, they have no feelings one way or the other about slavery in other lands, as long as the enslaved is not a member of the tribes. Then they will do what they can to free them. The Atruaghin do not generally keep slaves of other races, not because they necessarily feel it is wrong, but because their lifestyle does not require the need for slaves. War captives are either slain outright (considered more merciful than slavery) or, if valiant and amenable, are kept for a short time and then adopted into the tribe. In the case of the Tiger Tribe, captives are held for a brief time, abused, and then sacrificed. In the case of the Turtle Tribe, captives are kept as slaves only if they have offended the tribesmen; otherwise they are slain. These noshaki, as they are called, are treated fairly well, as slaves go, but they can never be released from their slavery, save by death. Slaves are generally not sold, as the clan as a whole owns them. Broken Lands - Slavery is common among the beastmen of the Broken Lands, as, effectively, the weaker beastmen are the slaves of any stronger beastmen. However, slavery in its "purer" form also exists, as captives taken in war and raid are used and abused until they die or end up in the stewpot. Slaves in the Broken Lands have no rights, and no prospects for freedom. However, if one somehow becomes a "favored slave," such as a concubine, a certain level of protection is afforded based upon the strength of one's master (or mistress). Slave taking raids are common out of the Broken Lands, and slaves are often bought, sold, and traded amongst the hordes and to foreigners. Darokin - Slavery is illegal in Darokin, though it is legal to transport a slave through Darokin to another nation (after all, one must recognize the right to property, if the Daro want others to trade with them). Slave taking is illegal in Darokin, though a poor man or woman can sell him or herself into slavery, as long as he or she is then taken to another land. It is also legal to enter into a bond contract, also known as indentured servitude, for a period of no more than seven years (though such contracts can be renewed). Bondsmen, however, have a number of rights, most especially the right not to be beaten (often broken), the right to possess money and goods, and the right to buy their freedom on a pro-rated basis. Of course, one must pay a fee for a license to have the right to "own" a bondsman. Bond contracts may also be entered into by a parent for their child, provided the child is at least nine years old; these are Apprenticeship contracts, and are quite common among the copper and silver classes. There are a number of unscrupulous merchants, "bond slavers," that troll lower class areas, promising to take on a child as an apprentice and train him, but then taking him (and numerous other victims) to Athenos and other border towns and there selling them to slavers. There is a very active "underground" in Darokin, which seeks to free slaves brought through the land, and seeks to better the lives of the bondservants. Ethengar - The entire nation of Ethengar is effectively a slave nation, as the Golden Khan owns them and their property. However, the Golden Khan cannot sell his people. Slaves of the more standard sort are not unusual; usually these are female concubines taken in raids (in old days, from other clans; today, from neighboring lands). Some male slaves are kept for short-term grunt labor, or to be sold to other slave-keeping nations; when the Ethengar are done with their project, they will sell the slaves if possible, or kill them if not. Most Ethengar do not own slaves, as they would slow them down, however, a khan will generally keep a few around to help his retinue. Eventually, such slaves may be considered almost members of the clan; some might be freed after years of good service, though this is rare. Most such that are freed remain with the clan as free men and women, as they have become Ethengar. Five Shires - Slavery is illegal in the Five Shires. Any slave that crosses into the Hin lands is considered to be a free man, and most Hin would fight to defend that right. Some unscrupulous Hin pirates, however, are not above taking captive humans as slaves and selling them overseas. Glantri - Glantri is, for the most part, like Darokin in regards to slaves, and has effectively the same traditions regarding bondsmen, though they are not treated as well here at all. Of course, the great wizards are above the law; some keep slaves, mostly concubines and "laboratory rats (notably dwarves and halflings). Serfs, i.e., slaves that are tied to a specific land and cannot be sold, are common in Boldavia, more unusual in other regions. Serfs have more rights than true slaves, but their lives are in practice little different. Some unscrupulous wizards sell their serfs to slavers when they need quick cash. Heldannic Territories - Strictly speaking slavery is not found in the Heldannic Territories, however, the natives have been reduced to serfdom, a status very near that of slavery. As in Glantri, unscrupulous nobles will sell serfs to slavers for quick cash, though it is rarer, as the serfs are needed to work the nobles' lands. Ierendi - Slavery is illegal in Ierendi. Slaves become free when they set foot on Ierendian soil (whether escapee or otherwise), though slaves kept in ship holds in port remain slaves. Ierendi has an active anti-slaver patrol, to protect its people from slaver ships. They often work surreptitiously with the Freedom Ships of Open Isle, from the Minrothad Guilds. Karameikos - Slavery is illegal in Karameikos, though a few practice it secretly (most notably the Black Eagle Baron). Thyatian slaves that pass through the land with their masters remain slaves; Stefan must recognize the rights of Thyatian slave owners as part of his deal with Thincol. Thyatian slaves may not be sold or traded in Karameikos, and, if they remain in the duchy for a year and a day (whether escaped or otherwise) they become free men. Other nations slave owners, however, have no such protections, and, if they bring slaves into Karameikos, they lose them, immediately! As with most nations, the law of the sea applies in Karameikan ports; any slaves on ships are still slaves, and considered cargo. If, however, they become beached, or if a (non-Thyatian) slave jumps ship and gets to shore, they become freemen. Convicts are nearly slaves, but their rights resemble that of the bondsmen of Darokin, except they cannot (generally) buy their freedom. Minrothad Guilds - Slavery is, strictly speaking, illegal in Minrothad. However, the slave trade is alive and well in most ports. Slaves owned by non-Minrothians may be brought in, sold or traded in Minrothian markets, and transported out of Minrothian territory; thus, the illicit and unrecognized "Slaver's Guild" is made up mostly of foreigners! Iron Ring slavers work openly in Minrothian ports. The exception to this is Open Isle, where slavery is illegal, and any slave that reaches the isle becomes free; natives will fight against slavers ferociously to protect a new freeman's rights. The halflings of Open Isle are also the proponents of anti-slave trade laws, and, in fact, sponsor what they call "Freedom Ships" that attack slave ships when they leave Minrothian territorial waters. Freedom Ships are recognizable from the flag they bear, a white field with black shattered chains. Battles are frequent in the waters between Open Isle and Crossbones, a major Thyatian slave port. Ostland - Slavery is uncommon in Ostland; much more common is the keeping of Thralls, a similar, though subtly different practice. Thralls are supposed to be "petitioner citizens," in other words, captives that will be granted their freedom once they have served and learned Norse ways from their owners. In practice, most Thralls are kept as standard slaves, though like serfs elsewhere, they are rarely sold. Most Norse reavers, however, are not beyond taking captives in a raid and selling them as slaves elsewhere, where true slavery is legal. King Hords' wife, Yrsa, is actively behind the effort to eliminate the practice of Thralldom, though she and her confederates are working against thousands of years of tradition. Rockhome - Rockhome dwarves do not keep slaves, and do not allow slave holders to bring their slaves into their lands. Rockhome dwarves do not allow others to keep dwarves as slaves, and will attack those that do keep them. Most Rockhome dwarves do not care what humans do to each other, and will rarely become involved in human slave practices outside of Rockhome. Sind - Slavery is rare in Sind, due to the caste system; many outsiders would consider the kuliya caste to be little more than slavery, but it is very different in practice. The wealthy rarely import female (and, I rare cases, male) slaves as concubines. Slave owners may bring their slaves into the kingdom, sell or trade them within the borders, and take them out again. To most Sindhi, the slaves are just part of a different caste. The fatalistic belief in karma leads most Sindhis that even notice the slave trade to believe that the slaves are such because they deserved it from their actions in a previous life. Slave raiding is unusual in the interior of Sind, and limited to the kuliya or rarely the prajaya classes. Officials often turn a blind eye to anything that happens to kuliyas, and are usually bribed not to worry about the fate of the prajayas; again, it wouldn't have happened to them if they didn't deserve it, right? Soderfjord Jarldoms - Slavery is an internal affair in Soderfjord; each jarl establishes his own laws in this regard. Some outlaw it (like the Jarl of Soderfjord), others encourage it; most are in the middle ground, and keep to the ancient practices, as in Ostland. Slave raids are not uncommon upon the weaker jarldoms, while stronger, more forward jarls often sponsor covert raids to free the thralls and slaves in neighboring lands. Thyatis - Thyatis is second only to Alphatia in the keeping of slaves, and outdoes them in the selling of slaves many fold. Slaves have some rights in Thyatis. Their owners cannot kill them or permanently maim them; they must receive a minimal amount of food and shelter to sustain life; they may own property, as much as they may carry, though only things that are given as gifts; and they may buy their freedom. Note that magical healing and cures are never required of slave owners, however, under the strictest requirements of the law a local lay healer ill should at least be called to tend to an ill slave. Children born to slaves are slaves, and may be sold by their owner (though most rarely do until the child is at least 14). Slaves may be sold outside of the empire, however, they no longer will have the empire's protection and thus only evil and desperate slave owners will sell slaves to foreign traders. In many cases, wealthy families have held slave families for generations, with the slave children being raised along with the noble children. In other cases, slaves have been worked to death, notably in mines and on overseas plantations. Slave rebellions are always put down harshly. Slavery is highly variable in the empire, but it is considered natural by most. There are several movements, notably those sponsored by certain temples, to alleviate the bonds of slavery or eliminate them altogether; these movements have had little success. Vestland - Slavery and thralldom are illegal in Vestland. Foreigners may bring their slaves to the country, but are closely watched; slaves may not be bought, sold, or traded in Vestland. If a slave escapes in Vestland, or is brought to Vestland by a foreigner, and lives in the country for a year and a day, he is considered a freeman. Some of the more traditional families secretly keep thralls; they are usually wealthy enough to avoid trouble, as long as they are quiet about it. As usual, the law of the sea is practiced i n ports. Wendar - The elves of Wendar abhor slavery. Slaves (or serfs, especially in the case of Heldanns) brought into the country, or that escape to Wendar, is automatically free. Locals will fight to defend escapees' freedom; there have been several pitched battles on the Heldannic frontier over the freedom of a single serf. Ylaruam - Ylaruam is divided over the issue of slavery. The Preceptor faction (now in power) believes that Al-Kalim spoke against slavery, and thus has outlawed it; the Kin faction believes that Al-Kalim approved of the enslavement of non-Believers. Thus, the current law stands that slavery is illegal, however, it is often practiced in Kin held regions, most notably in Abbashan. As the local authorities are generally followers of the Kin way they ignore it as long as it is small, subtle, and does not enslave Believers (even the Kin won't enslave those that follow the Preceptor way, though true conversion will be tested with magic). Bond contracts, however, are legal (see Darokin); they are most often used to by poor families to bond a beautiful daughter to a wealthy man as a concubine. The term limit in Ylaruam is seven years, after which the woman may leave or renew the contract on her own. Male concubinage to women is illegal, however, men may be bonded as standard servants, again for up to seven years. Foreigners may bring slaves into the country, buy or sell them, and take them out again, as long as they remain within certain districts of various ports and border towns. Escapees are neither free nor slave; it is the responsibility of the owner to recapture them, as the local authorities will generally not assist, though some might be bribed to do so. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 23:23:06 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: The Goblins of Dymrak MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Maybe it is more handywork of the dragon. What if the > dagger(or sword) was actually intelegent, and was > advising whoever was in charge. Perhaps it was created > by the green dragon to do this... so the goblin tribes > would not fight, and would really be working for him > to an extent. As you say, it does not need to be that > long ago. They could even be a branch of one of the > other tribes that he managed to get to break away with > the discovery of the dagger. > > Thoughts? I don't know if the dragon would be able to create a magic weapon, esp. one that's intelligent. However, the dragon would certainly be intelligent enough to use an impressive looking magic weapon to manipulate the local tribes. It is more than feasible that a powerful dragon could have acquired a red steel weapon in its hoard and then used it to further his own ends. "Hmmm, these goblins could be useful servants. They have a legend of a blue knife. That foreign-speaking human I just ate had a red one. It will probably work just as well to influence the foul creatures..." ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 20:20:17 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Iron Ring and B10 in general In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:09 PM 7/18/01 -0700, you wrote: > >Yes, Thyatis is close to the east, but if you have ships (such as the Black >Eagle definitely would have had in his barony), Jaibul isn't too far away >to the west either. I imagine a good portion of people captured and sold >into slavery in Karameikos would be sold in Jaibul because there is less >chance of them coming back to Karameikos and revealing anything later... As for Jaibul, I wrote an entry in the 1017 almanac regarding just this sort of thing. I even used one of the Iron Ring NPCs from B10, for those who didn't catch it the first time out. :) >Then they return to Sykiskyn (sp?). Sukiskyn, but so far you're remembering quite well. :) >Xitaqa (sp?). Yep. >He is likely to be killed at some time during the adventure, but if it happens >here, another master of the Iron Ring, Karllag (sp?, he is mage 7, IIRC), >then takes over his position... I think Karllag is the one I chose to head up Iron Ring operations in Jaibul. >Iron Ring members will also find their way here for a final encounter with >the PCs. There is a nasty monster (almost something out of the Cthulhu >mythos, though not as tough) in some underground dungeons, but I don't >remember why the PCs go there so well... IIRC, they get involved in the intrigues between the Traldar and the Hutaaka. Both groups are living in fear of this thing that was released from captivity when the Traldar drove the Hutaaka out of the temple (where the Hutaaka used rituals to bind it). The PCs are approached by one (or both) groups and asked to assist in destroying the creature (Kartoeba). >They cannot end the hostilities between the Traldar and the Hutaakans, >though. If you look in the MA 1016 and 1017, you'll find threads for >Karameikos which are direct continuations of these plots! Yep. I basically introduced the module's events based on a throwaway plot hook in the 1013 almanac (Joshuan's) which mentioned adventurers finding an "extensive cave system" in the mountains north of Threshold. >What you're looking for is the article, "Karameikos, Ho!" in Dragon no. >206, p.65. That's the one. It gives a good general overview of the Iron Ring and their "Cell" organization. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 20:36:14 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Damocles, the Emerondians & other Mystaran mysteries In-Reply-To: <3B56D793.9040900@libero.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:50 AM 7/19/01 -0400, you wrote: > >BTW, the meteor that hits Glantri was sent by the Master of Hule, so any >tampering with the original asteroid was probably done by Loki/Bozdogan. The Master just called down a curse on his enemies (Darokin). Since the asteroid impacts immediately following this curse, the appearance is that the Master (or his patron, who grants the spell) caused the meteor impact. As WotI points out, it is Alphaks who actually causes the meteor to be diverted from its course and impact on Darokin/Glantri. Loki has nothing to do with it. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 00:10:09 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: what slavery is.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would tend to agree with most of your arguments, but they must be interpreted in the context of the moral development of ancient societies. Is slavery evil? Compared to free living -- yes! Compared to complete massacre of the population of a city defeated in war -- slavery is a major improvement. Thus, perversely enough, it would be Immortals of Good alignment who would first introduce slavery -- and then subsequently work to abolish it once the evil it was meant to prevent (complete slaughter of a defeated population) has become unthinkable. Thus, based on real world history, the natural progression to be enacted by Immortals of Good alignment would be as follows: 1) Introduce slavery as an alternative to massacring the entire population of defeated cities and tribes. 2) Once it is established that all war captives are to be enslaved rather than massacred, introduce the concept of a class of people who cannot morally and legally be enslaved. 3) Expand that class of people gradually until it includes all sentient beings. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 09:31:21 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: R: Re: [MYSTARA] what slavery is.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Francesco Defferrari wrote: > Tarastia LN ? She is the goddess of revenge against evil, not the goddess of > war ! Anyway, in your campaign you can make her as you please, but then in > your campaign slavery is good ? in your campaign the PC fight against > humanoids and then they don't see the evil around them ?... there is no one > who opposes slavery ? Your PCs thinks that slaves are all happy ? I don't > want to judge your choices, but my point was that in a fantasy world where > gods speak with their clerics, the gods of "good" MUST fight slavery and > unprovoked war, or they are not good gods ... I don't see how you can deny > that... Actually, my characters are mostly elves, espa or traladarans in background, and yes, they fight the Master of Hule, Baron von Hendricks and the Iron Ring. They've never been in Thyatis, though. Ah, not all of them are good, so some of them might condone slavery (especially the evil ones). But, sure, the priest of the Church of Traladara in my campaign holds exactly the same ideas you are exposing here (and he worships Halav, Petra, and Zirchev, who are all Good, and are immortals of defence, not aggression). BTW, I suppose that revenge, in general, is not good, but neutral. Now, let's see how the Thyatian Pantheon works. The Thyatian Immortals are, in rough order of importance: Ixion ?? (this is a real mystery, he is supposed to be a LG force, but he behaves as LE very frequently) Vanya TN (IMO bordering on LE) Tarastia LN Protius TN (doesn't care about landdwellers much anyway) Thor LN (OD&D) or CN (AD&D) Odin LN (OD&D) or CN (AD&D) Asterius TN Diulanna CG Kagyar LG Ilsundal LG Khoronous TN Koryis LG Halav LG So, I'd say that most of the most powerful Immortals are not good. Sure, the priesthoods of Halav, Koryis and especially Diulanna may be very vocal against slavery, but they are much less important than the others. They are probably the ones responsible, with Tarastia perhaps, of the laws that "protect" slaves in Thyatis. Kagyar is basically good, and so is Ilsundal, but they are both quite uninterested in humans, and I suppose that slavery, while legal among humans, does not exist in the demihuman domains. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 09:36:03 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: R: Re: [MYSTARA] what slavery is.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Francesco Defferrari wrote: > I agree with you regarding the opinions of the common people in a medieval > setting, but i cannot believe that there are good gods who don't oppose > slavery and unprovoked war.... humans and other races probably are blind to > the true evil in the world, but the gods have to be wise to become gods, and > they cannot possibly be so blind ! Remember that these gods were once mortals, and most keep most of their opinions unchanged--that's why Rheddrian Benekander, who is a "modern" man, appears so out of place among them. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 09:56:08 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Slavery in the Known World, Part 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James Mishler wrote: > > Ierendi - Slavery is illegal in Ierendi. Slaves become free when they set > foot on Ierendian soil (whether escapee or otherwise), though slaves kept in > ship holds in port remain slaves. Ierendi has an active anti-slaver patrol, > to protect its people from slaver ships. They often work surreptitiously > with the Freedom Ships of Open Isle, from the Minrothad Guilds. Not in canon as well, but I think Ierendi aristocracy subsists mostly on plantation-style agriculture, and since Ierendi governement is very corrupted, I suppose some form of serfdom does exist in the plantations. > Ylaruam IMC, Ylaruam has only slavery for debts, which ends when the debt is exstinguished. The Kin faction may well support enslavement of non-Believers, but since the Emirate do not control lands inhabited by non-Believers, it matters little. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 01:49:22 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: larry lamb Subject: Re: The Goblins of Dymrak In-Reply-To: <20010720014456.87592.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If its an intel. weapon and if it supost to be resposable for keeping the goblens in check why not givew it some domanation type spell efects? --- Chris Furneaux wrote: > > Red-Blade tribes, and the Red-Blade leader had a > red > > steel dagger +2, that > > the tribe took its name from. I never wrote a > > history of it, but I was > > working on the premise that the tribe found the > > dagger somehow and took > > their name from it, passing it down from chieftain > > to chieftain. With the > > short lifespan of goblins, it wouldn't even need > to > > have been *that* long > > ago. Maybe the goblins slew an adventurer that > had > > the dagger, or maybe a > > wizard left it for them as an experiment > > Maybe it is more handywork of the dragon. What if > the > dagger(or sword) was actually intelegent, and was > advising whoever was in charge. Perhaps it was > created > by the green dragon to do this... so the goblin > tribes > would not fight, and would really be working for him > to an extent. As you say, it does not need to be > that > long ago. They could even be a branch of one of the > other tribes that he managed to get to break away > with > the discovery of the dagger. > > Thoughts? > > Chris. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ===== The "Fighting Bunnys" main site: http://www.angelfire.com/on2/myrobotechgames/index.html To group site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RobotechGame __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 09:14:12 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Mystara in Dungeon Magazine Matt wrote: >I have most of the issues and will post my thoughts on >most of them later, but the ones that stand out in my >mind are: Does anyone know if WotC produced a CD collection of Dungeon magazines (as they did with Dragon)? Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 07:05:45 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Matthew Wang Subject: Re: Mystara in Dungeon Magazine In-Reply-To: <200107201314.JAA14434@freenet10.carleton.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Geoff, They have been talking about it, but it would not be done until 2002 at the earliest. Matt --- Geoff Gander wrote: > > Does anyone know if WotC produced a CD collection of > Dungeon magazines (as > they did with Dragon)? > > Geoff > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:17:57 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: what slavery is.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Don't read me the wrong way, I do use slavery in my campaign, I was just saying the slavery did not make much sense in Thyatis. But after reading several posts, I will be introducing more of it in my campaign and let the players decide for their own if they want to be indifferent to it, or start some type of campaign to abolish most of its bad practices (maybe one day a new immortal will show up that attained its immortality by being the supporter of free-slaves). In one of my games a paladin was given a gift of a beautiful image of a woman in a bottle (a phantasmal image of a wizardress that had fallen for the paladin). In his search for the meaning of this, he was approached by an Ylari slaver that did not speak Thyatian; he was just saying "fatmah, fatmah". The paladin showed this vender the bottle, the merchant then exclaimed "oh, you like fatmah!". The paladin seeing his eyes light up then gave the vender 200gp (thinking he was buying information on the bottle, not a slave girl). The paladin then was shocked to find out he had just purchased a concubine, but did not release her until he had left Ylaurum (she did not want to leave him, for she had fallen for his CHR, and good treatment). Eventually the two became married, only to have her sold back into slavery when the real owner of the slave had crossed paths with the paladin (no thanks to a jealous wizardress) :( This campaign was never finished though, we had both left for college before we could play the paladin's rescue of his concubine/slave/wife. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 09:26:35 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: ramhog Subject: Re: Mystara in Dungeon Magazine In-Reply-To: <200107201314.JAA14434@freenet10.carleton.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > >Does anyone know if WotC produced a CD collection of Dungeon magazines (as >they did with Dragon)? No, but they should. VVH PS- Geoff, did you ever get my email about the Illuminati thing? -- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:27:30 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Zzonga MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am loathe to get into this discussion due to the chance that it spurs the time old and non-conclusive debates of Alphatia vs. Thyatis. Especially since there are already some evident undertones this repeated argument surfacing. Zzonga is a drug...pure and simple...akin to an opiate. I have accepted zzonga as a part of Alphatia. However, I tend to use it a bit differently. I just find it odd that the individualistic and magic focused mages would allow themselves to be enslaved to a substance that hinders their magic abilities. I also find it a bit odd that a mage would want to get "goosed up" on zzonga when he has the resources of the empire at his fingertips. Plus, being all grogging on zzonga would place a mage at a distinct disadvantage against a rival...and we know how those alphatian rivalries are. IMO zzonga would find a more receptive audiance among the nonspellcasting majority, especially those mundaners that lack the ability to be anything more than mere servants. I would imagine that the slums would be ripe with zzonga dens, much like the real world ghettos with their crack and heroine. Most addicts being those wishing to escape life. In that sense, Thyatis too would be ripe for zzonga trade. Being a magic afluent setting, trade and smugglers would easily cross the expanses to bring in zzonga. It's really a matter of supply and demand. Thyatis is known for its corruption and corruption fosters decadence so why now zzonga use. Thyatian addicts do have their precedence during Wrath. Plus, I would imagine that some zzonga was introduced during any of the Alphatian occupations. You could also add the wavering borders of the Isle of Dawn and Alphatian tourists. As a drug zzonga is closely associated with opiates. However, unlike most RW drugs the zzonga descripts make little mention of a physical dependance. Affect losts a set duration and is extended based upon subsequent uses. You stop taking it and you are off of it until you take it again. In that light, I see no reason why addiction (or more correctly its use) is ultimately hopeless. It's not like it is crack or even heroine. As far as the law goes, DotE has zzonga being made illegal by one of the Alphatian Emperors after one of the failed assaults on Thyatis. It even mentions the emperor going to extreme measures (executions) to stem zzonga use. This reference can be seen in the Player's Guide to Alphatia for those curious. I don't recall if the law stayed in affect or was repealed. However, most subsequent zzonga references give the impression of unlawful or at least scorned seediness..."secret zzonga labs"....for example. As far as Thyatis, its cleanup actions was a purge. Their military effectiveness was waning and showed in a series of losses. Purging the military leadership was a natural move. Zzonga use made it easy. Given Thyatian corruption, I think it safe to assume that those purged were targeted. Well connected addicts being overlooked. Others being targetted to be scapegoats or to settle old vendettas. Purging the military leaders is quite common for the Thyatian emperors. Thyatis was founded after a purging. Thincol purged the military in his rise to the throne until they "were of like mind". Later, Eusebius engineered his own purges to secure his hold to power after Thincol died. Heck, look in the timeline in DotE and you'll see that one such purging led to the surviving White Drakes being given sanctuary with the Retebius Air Fleet and Knights of the Air. There is also some mention of these groups have anti-Thyatian feelings....though these were never detailed any further or used in Wrath. Anyway...don't take any of the above as a personal slam against Thyatis as it was not meant to be. IMO Zzonga markets could be easily found in other nations as well...Darokin and Glantri especially come to mind. Besides...at least Thyatis doesn't conquer a nation, then screw it up by placing aristos in administrative duties to tick off the locals to rebel. I probably omitted some key part of my message...but i'll insert it in any response i have to make :-) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:28:20 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Slavery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I tend to agree that slavery is viewed as being acceptable even normal in Mystara. Slavery was a natural part of RW ancient cultures. Rome was ripe with slaves and dependant upon slaves for its growth. Heck, slaves could even have slaves. Slavery was a part of life for Rome, antislavery sentiments being based upon those that were enslaved. As Christianity came into play, the moral issues soon followed. Of course one has to remember that the Judism played a heavy part in early Christianity and the Jewish people were mostly occupied or enslaved. The Alphatian mindset places other humans as barbarians. Therefore, in the Alphatian minset non alphatian slaves are not equal to them....almost subhuman. You are enslaved and are a slave for life or until your owner decides otherwise. A slave being a possession, more akin to a horse than an unpaid servant. The Thyatian mindset goes with the epic warrior/conqueror. You lose on the battlefield and your fate depends on the will of the victor. Ironically this is a bit harsher than the line of the HKs. Thyatis also allows a slave a way out of his position by Imperial Law. Of course being Thyatis, the law is fickle at best. The HKs also see the "right of might" however the conquered are not directly seen as slaves. They are just treated like crap unless they adopt the Vanya religion. Glantri has no official slaves, however the nonspellcasters are taxed and licensed to great length to support the magocracy. And let's face it, a mage can get away with almost anything in Glantri. There are slaves in Boldavia working the salt mines. Of course, Boldavians are essentially the personal larders of the principality's vampire lords anyway. Darokin has its indentured servants. These guys are really no different than slaves. It would be a bit hypocritical for Darokin to officially have slaves while being a trade giant and butting into everyone's business with its DDC. Karameikos had its serfs...which were virtually slaves. The traldaran were essentially enslaved by their string of occupiers. IMO Stefan outlawed serfdom as a means to quell local unrest as well as being "the nice guy" that he is. Sind/Hule could easily be seen as enslaving its populace under the Master's rule. The Milenians take slaves and matter of factly treat them as slaves. The Azcans took captives for sacrifice....more or less enslaving them before their deaths. The Noids of the Broken Lands would probably also see slavery as captives are taken in raids. And so on..... My problem with Mystaran Slavery is in its make up. Thyatian slaves are cheap, profits undermined by the costs of taking them and even the barest care before going to market. Likewise slavers would have to have a source of slaves. Thyatian expansion has lessened leading up to Wrath and most conquered peoples were offered citizenship. A Thyatian slave pool would be weak due to the lessened expansions and the promise of freedom. Of course the promise of freedom could be a pipe dream with few actually achieving it. Afterall...how are slaves to get the needed cash to buy their freedom except through scavenging or charity. Alphatian also suffers from lessened expansion. However, since emancipation is less likely, it is more feasible that there is a sizeable slave pool to draw upon. The other mentioned nations have slave like classes or tendencies. However, they do not classify them as slaves and are therefore not usually veiwed as being slaves. Don't get me wrong....slavery does suck....especially for the slaves. I am just looking at it for what it is. I never glorify slavery in my Mystaran works. I use it as an aspect of the respective nations' social structures. Sometimes slavery can be incorporated intom the current campaign as motivating factors. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:40:52 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Stop teasing me MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: ramhog [mailto:ramhog@PRODIGY.NET] > > Hey, if I had to buy it, you have to buy it! ;-) > I hold a very different opinion on this. Sure, I remember working through college to pay my tuition, rent, et. and barely having enough to buy modules with (guess its ramen noodles again). In fact I believe most of my dinners were the bottles of Jolt, and Doritos that other players had to bring for our game nights and of course the weekend keg parties kept my weight up for wrestling ;) So I earned my modules and info, but I see no reason to horde all my info from others (unless your players, then you just have to find things out by your characters involvement :p ) In order to keep Mystara alive (since we are the only ones that seem to support this for the outside the US people), I see no reason at all to support a Mystaran Encyclopedia, that would have information valuable to anybody's campaign that is strictly based on all cannon materials that are out of print. It would just be an almanac or index that briefly gives details of things Mystaran and where to find the source (but without plot lines et. that give the module's fun away). Things to include would be the new character classes (like the Forester) the elven clans (and parts of the rainbow/Sylvan Realm), different skills (especially regional talents), character generation tables for each region, et. Any view on this? For those converting OE to 3E, this would be a good place to start (get your facts down all nice and neat, then convert one piece at a time). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 11:27:36 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Zzonga MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Alex Benson [mailto:Alex295@AOL.COM] > > I just find it odd that the individualistic and magic focused > mages would > allow themselves to be enslaved to a substance that hinders > their magic > abilities. I also find it a bit odd that a mage would want to > get "goosed up" > on zzonga when he has the resources of the empire at his > fingertips. Plus, > being all grogging on zzonga would place a mage at a distinct > disadvantage > against a rival...and we know how those alphatian rivalries are. > IMO I believe that introducing the zzonga addicts as being Alphatian Mages, was to quell the 1,000 36th level mages in its council. Face it, if just 50 of these mages just got together and coordinated an attack, using well placed timestop, delayed blast fireball, earthquake, meteor swarm, and conjure magicks; they would decimate a city like Thyatis to rubble in about 30 minutes. (I actually play tested this idea out, and it works.) Consumption of zzonga would be too expensive for commoners (zzonga has to be helped with magic to grow on Mystara, or imported from Ancient Alphatia), this would be the reason why only mages can use the stuff, only the more powerful ones would have access to the magic to produce them or have the funds to support it. Thyatis to be infected with this addition would have to be supported by a plot of some very powerful or rich mages in Alphatia to keep the supply getting there. Other than that I agree whole-heartedly. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:45:23 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Slavery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Alex Benson [mailto:Alex295@AOL.COM] > > My problem with Mystaran Slavery is in its make up. > Thyatian slaves are cheap, profits undermined by the costs of > taking them and > even the barest care before going to market. Likewise slavers > would have to > have a source of slaves. Thyatian expansion has lessened > leading up to Wrath > and most conquered peoples were offered citizenship. A > Thyatian slave pool > would be weak due to the lessened expansions and the promise > of freedom. Of > course the promise of freedom could be a pipe dream with few actually > achieving it. Afterall...how are slaves to get the needed > cash to buy their > freedom except through scavenging or charity. > > Alphatian also suffers from lessened expansion. However, > since emancipation > is less likely, it is more feasible that there is a sizeable > slave pool to > draw upon. > This is my point, if slavery is in effect in Thyatis, who makes the slave population? The cannon material does state that a good proportion of slaves in Alphatia are Jennites, especially in Bellesaria, and I would imagine allot of the mundane Cypric peoples are heavily enslaved. But for Thyatis, who would be the slaves? Hinterlanders that do not wish to become citizens would make good fodder for the gladiatorial arenas, I imagine allot of descendants of conquered Traladaran city-states would be enslaved (but this would strain relations with Karameikos). Antalians from the north would be good prospects, but this would put strains on Heldannic relations to Ostland Reavers (who would be the main suppliers). Most resent slaving nations were targeting a more primitive people that were considered subhuman (as the case for Alphatia taking the Jennites as slaves). This would equate Alphatia to the US Southern states, as the Africans were considered fodder for slaves (with stronger tribes enslaving the weaker ones, at that point in history). Rome preyed upon Jews, Christians, Celts, Africans, and Germans for slave fodder; would this mean that Thyatis is actually preying on occupied Ochalea, Nuari, and Hinterlands for slaves? This would make more sense, those that work with Thyatis in those countries are citizens, and are making profits by supplying slave fodder out of their political rivals and relatives. Of course since Ochalea and Nuari have been within the Empire for a long time now, this is not actually being done anymore, but this would leave allot of the slave population in Thyatis as being descendants of Ochalea & Nuari ancestors, with a new influx of Hinterlander slaves. Modern day Cuba has a large mixed population of ex-slaves, Spanish, Indian (native and from India), and Chinese. They have a very colorful background (My father in-law is Cuban, but with Spaniard, Chinese, Irish & Italian blood, he speaks Spanish, English, and Cantonese). A good write-up of the slave population and history would be very good information for Thyatis. Given the colorful history of Haiti and US slaves (voodoo, underground railroads, emancipation, et) we could add quite a bit of flavor to this unspoken population of Thyatis (given slave populations of RW Rome, slaves outnumbered their citizens 2-1). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 13:46:39 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Mystaran Boy Scouts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I did not get a response to this idea, so I will just kill it. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 20:52:34 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Zzonga Christopher Cherrington wrote: >> IMO I believe that introducing the zzonga addicts as being Alphatian Mages, was to quell the 1,000 36th level mages in its council. Face it, if just 50 of these mages just got together and coordinated an attack, using well placed timestop, delayed blast fireball, earthquake, meteor swarm, and conjure magicks; they would decimate a city like Thyatis to rubble in about 30 minutes. (I actually play tested this idea out, and it works.)<< I play tested it too, and it didn't work. Seriously, that's a strange thing to say; the result certainly depends on what kind of opposition the Thyatians would bring to bear on those 50 mages. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 21:00:18 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Slavery in the Known World, Part 1 James Mishler wrote: >> Ostland - Slavery is uncommon in Ostland; much more common is the keeping of Thralls, a similar, though subtly different practice. Thralls are supposed to be "petitioner citizens," in other words, captives that will be granted their freedom once they have served and learned Norse ways from their owners. In practice, most Thralls are kept as standard slaves, though like serfs elsewhere, they are rarely sold. Most Norse reavers, however, are not beyond taking captives in a raid and selling them as slaves elsewhere, where true slavery is legal. King Hords' wife, Yrsa, is actively behind the effort to eliminate the practice of Thralldom, though she and her confederates are working against thousands of years of tradition.<< I always figured that Ostlanders took slaves/thralls, because they think that if people cannot defend themselves, then they are too weak to make decisions for themselves. Basically might makes right, and if you're mighty enough to enslave another, then you have the right to rule over him/her. Still, the Ostlanders think that those with power should not abuse it, but that works better in theory than in practice. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:20:17 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Zzonga MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Jacob Skytte [mailto:scythe@WANADOO.DK] > > I play tested it too, and it didn't work. Seriously, that's a > strange thing to say; the result certainly depends on what > kind of opposition the Thyatians would bring to bear on those > 50 mages. > It is the element of surprise, if the 50 mages came from Thyatis and attacked Alphatia, you would have a much stronger opposition, but it could work also. Both countries don't have magic's to detect of invasion by teleporting mages, or early detection of a timestop going on. Although in Mystara these types of terrorist attacks don't happen, the reprisals to them would be even more horrendous and justifiable for a complete invasion of the other's territory; even making allies easier to oppress the instigator. Other nations would back Thyatis completely if Alphatia ever did such a thing (they would be wondering who's next; if the next time comes, will there be 50 mages in my capital and another 50 in Thyatis again?). I was just making the point about why zzonga addicts are mainly Alphatian mages. It gives to credibility that a nation that can have a council of 1000 36th level mages has not ever just sacked Thyatis. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:25:55 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Slavery in the Known World, Part 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Jacob Skytte [mailto:scythe@WANADOO.DK] > > I always figured that Ostlanders took slaves/thralls, because > they think that if people cannot defend themselves, then they > are too weak to make decisions for themselves. Basically > might makes right, and if you're mighty enough to enslave > another, then you have the right to rule over him/her. Still, > the Ostlanders think that those with power should not abuse > it, but that works better in theory than in practice. > That is the attitude that Queen Yrsa is battling against. She and her subordinates are trying to end these traditions, and her efforts are the official beliefs; but what most jarls are told and what they do are two very different things ;) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 13:53:33 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dave Keyser Organization: Palmchip Subject: Soderfjord in Dungeon Magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jacob Skytte wrote: > Dave Keyser wrote: > > > 23 The only adventure set in Soderfjord outside of GAZ7, it is a somewhat typical > > 'destroy the threat from the wilderness'. The bad guys are lizardmen, but the leader > > is going to be a surprise for the PCs. Also describes the local militia. > > I'd be interested to know more about that local militia, which jarldom is featured, and any general information on the area. Will somebody help me out here, please? > Alright, I dug out the issue last night, I forgot how much extra detail there was on the area. The area is just west of the hex numbered 16(Ozurfurd?) above the "FJ" in Soerfjord on the map on page 18 of GAZ7. The area is known as the Vineyard Vales. The Vineyard Vales is an area of green rolling farmland between the Great Marsh and the Otofjord River. The Vales are not under the control of any jarl or jarldom, enjoying, for the moment, an independent existence. The most bountiful and rewarding crop being grown in the Vales is grapes. The vineyards of the Vales are rapidly becoming known for the quality of their wines. "Vale Burgundy" and "Vale Sauterne" are renowned table wines in the kingdoms of Vestland and Ostland. They also have excellent reputations as far away as Rockhome, Ylaruam(hmm, do they drink wine in Ylaruam?), and Karameikos. A secondary wine that the Vales produce is the infamous Jarldom 20-20, AKA JD 20-20 and usually referred to simply as "Jolly Dwarf". This is a cheap and very sweet wine that delivers a powerful wallop. It also delivers a hangover that can leave the most hardened and stoical of warriors bleating and pleading for mercy. For all its drawbacks, the wine is extremely popular in the taverns of the north. It is precisely because the Vale vineyards are becoming known for their wines that the area has ceased to be seen as simple frontier stead and is now considered valuable property. The Vale farmers realize the valueof their steads and have banded together in a loose confederation known as the Vineyard Vale Defense League. In addition, they have hired many mercenaries from Whiteheart, a city just across the Otofjord River from the Vales. Thus anyone wishing to move in and take over the Vales by force is in for a fight. The Vale farmers are from many different clans and nations and do not wish to seek the protection of any jarl. They perfer to remain independent of any jarldom and any jarl's taxes. The mercenaries have been hired because the farmers are plagued by giant locusts which have recently been streaming out of caves to the south, as well as lizardmen raiders. Both problems are actually an orchestrated plan by someone who is planning to become jarl over the area. Driving the farmers out of the area will allow him to move in and seize the lands, than lure farmers back once the problems disappear. One of the base of operations for the VVDL is Thrand's Stead, one of the local farms which is also a monastery established by and for clerics of Frey and Freyja. The monastery's real name is the Cloister and Peaceful Settlement of the Brothers and Sisters of Frey and Freyja. No one calls it that though, and it gets its name from the elder in charge of the monastery, Thrand of Vestland. The monastery is not a place of religious instruction, but a place where new acolytes are sent to contemplate their choice of a religious vocation. If, after a year of hard work in the vineyards, they are still of a mind to join the clergy, they are sent on to various temples and monasteries throughout the north for serious instruction in their faith. However, if at any time during that year they find their faith is not up to the task, they may leave the clergy without penalty or dishonor. It currently holds Thrand(a level 6 cleric) and 14 acolytes. The VVDL is made up of ill-trained and poorly armed farmers. It has no leader, and all decisions are made by a committee of the stead owners. Each owner or his emissary may voice his opinion or cast a vote on anything brought before the committee. The defense league is not a well-organized military machine but is able to field small bands of warriors from the steads and farms of the Vales. a typical VVDL fighter is a normal man, with shield dagger and club an elite VVDL fighter is a level 1 fighter with leather armor, shield, short sword and hand axe 20% chance that any typical or elite VVDL fighter is also a beserker The Whiteheart mercenaries are a mixed bag of battle-wise veterans, barroom brawlers, and downright brigands. The city of Whiteheart lies west of the Great Marsh and north of Gnollheim. Constant skirmishing with lizard men and gnolls has honed the battle skills of the mercenaries and taught them the value of thinking about a battle before engaging in it. Like all Northmen, they greatly value personal strength and courage, but they also have a better grasp of strategy and tactics then the average Northman a typical WH merc is a level 2 fighter with leather armor, shield, mace and hand axe an elite WH merc is a level 4 fighter with chainmail, shield, war hammer and hand axe 20% chance that any typical or elite WH merc is also a beserker Dave ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 16:50:25 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: M Novy Subject: Re: Stop teasing me Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Word of advice....I wouldnt ask for people on the list to do that....Mine is actually a copy that someone sent me in the mail...but i could scan it....I will come up with something in exchange.....do you have a scanner....? >From: ramhog >Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion >To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Stop teasing me >Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 16:18:15 -0600 > >> >>If someone were to scan it in its entirety and either e-mail it to >>me or post it somewhere - not here - I promise to not squeal. > >Hey, if I had to buy it, you have to buy it! ;-) > >Seriously, when I was collecting all this stuff originally (about 10 >years ago) that was the one module, along with CM7 The Tree of Life, >that I could *never* find. Of course that was before I discovered the >Internet. Hell, back then I was able to pick which copy of a module I >wanted!! And still no B10. > >It took my "I hate everyone who owns Night's Dark Terror" post to >finally score a copy. Now, finally, I can hate myself! > > >VVH >-- > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 16:51:50 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: M Novy Subject: Re: Stop teasing me Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed i was actually going to scan it for him......do you have a scanner to send something to me..... >> > I'd wait for the ESD to be released, but I live in > > the UK, so even then I won't be able to get it. > >I'm shit outta luck too. > > > If someone were to scan it in its entirety and > > either e-mail it to me or post it somewhere - not > > here - I promise to not squeal. > >If you do get a response, I want one too.... > >Chris. > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 17:04:58 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: M Novy Subject: Re: Mystara in Dungeon Magazine Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Unfortunately they havent Geoff >From: Geoff Gander >> > >Does anyone know if WotC produced a CD collection of Dungeon magazines (as >they did with Dragon)? > >Geoff > >-- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 16:49:38 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: Mystara in Dungeon Magazine On Fri, 20 Jul 2001 09:14:12 -0400, Geoff Gander wrote: >Matt wrote: > >>I have most of the issues and will post my thoughts on >>most of them later, but the ones that stand out in my >>mind are: > > > >Does anyone know if WotC produced a CD collection of Dungeon magazines (as >they did with Dragon)? > Now, I was very interested in this, but it was a while back so I may remember it wrong... But they did indeed consider the idea, only when the Dragon CDs didn't sell as well as they had hoped, the project was dropped... However, I've since heard rumors that they fully intended to release all the old stuff for download, though only after it's been converted to 3e rules... Personally, I think that's more bother than it's worth - I'd prefer the original versions myself and it means delays as they are converted, but having them available would be great! Well, that's how I remember it, at least... Is anyone from WOTC on this list to confirm or deny this? - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 19:32:53 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Eric Anondson Subject: Re: Mystara in Dungeon Magazine In-Reply-To: <20010721000715.BFA962D0413@breg.mc.mpls.visi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v388) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Does anyone know if WotC produced a CD collection of Dungeon magazines >> (as they did with Dragon)? > > Now, I was very interested in this, but it was a while back so I may > remember it wrong... > > But they did indeed consider the idea, only when the Dragon CDs didn't > sell as well as they had hoped, the project was dropped... I had heard differently. Rather they stopped because of legal reasons. Some authors were putting up a fuss about not their works being published and not getting compensated. They just stopped production instead of hammer out thousands of new contracts with each and every author who had ever written something for Dragon. This affected the planned Dungeon CDs, obviously, badly. What I recall was it was being shelved indefinitely because of the same legal reasons the Dragon CDs were, and the same reason ESD aren't being made available to outside the US. That is, the legal hassle of renegotiating contracts was not seen as worth the cost. It would raise the cost of the Dungeon CD out of all realms of possible affordability. The Supreme Court just decided a case against the New York Times that covered this exact issue, that is, if the contract didn't explicitly give the publisher rights to publish something in a new medium without having to compensate the author, said publisher cannot publish it in the new medium. The case incidentally was about the Net York Times wanting to do a CD compilation of some of their best known news stories. The result was that the Supreme Court said the New York Times (and all publishers for that matter) MUST pay the authors to republish the articles if the contract didn't cover the new medium... CDs and Internet in this case. The New York Times, and almost all other publishers responded by removing everything instead of paying the authors instead. WotC re-writing Dungeon adventures in new rules and republishing them would allow them to bypass the contract with the old author and publish to the Internet without the hassle of legal issues. So, I guess that was more info than anyone wanted to know about it! :) Eric Anondson ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 23:25:22 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "Shawn J." Subject: Re: Mystara in Dungeon Magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/20/01 9:07:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, xen@VISI.COM writes: > So, I guess that was more info than anyone wanted to know about it! :) > > > Eric Anondson > Nay, I thought it quite informative and interesting. Thanks Eric. --- Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 13:21:34 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Zzonga MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > -----Original Message----- > From: Alex Benson [mailto:Alex295@AOL.COM] > > I just find it odd that the individualistic and magic focused > mages would > allow themselves to be enslaved to a substance that hinders > their magic > abilities. I also find it a bit odd that a mage would want to > get "goosed up" [snip] <> i see your points but i am unsure. IMO the zzonga was introduced in Old=20 Alphatia as a means to symbolize alpher hedonism from their pre-civil war=20 society...a sort of play on overindulgence of a people with magical power=20 rivaling the immortals. all this led up to the great alphatian purge/reality= =20 check otherwise known as Alphaks Folly. it's not unfeasible that zzonga would follow the alphers to Mystara. heck, i= =20 kind of enjoy its being there. i love cultures with dirty little=20 traits...makes them more real.=20 anyway...i really don't see zzonga addiction as being a required game tool t= o=20 explain the existence yet lack of visibility of the Grand Council. IMO=20 rivalries, research, research security, and plain old ego trips should easil= y=20 suffice in filling this role. in fact, IMC (defunct) i use to play heavily o= n=20 this...especially the egos. arrogant mages make much more formidable foes (o= r=20 employers) when they have their heads clear. don't take this the wrong way...but the Grand Council is a given in canon=20 materials. i just don't see the reason for trying to remove it. no one does=20 anything similar with the Thyatian Sclari mages, Fire Isle Mages, Hereth=20 mages, Alfheim Elves, Shadow Elves, and so on and so on. I use to campaign=20 extensively in ALpher Lands and i don't think that the Grand Council ever=20 really factored in besides a single member acting alone either opposing or=20 employing the PCs. anyway...it's not that big a deal. i don't think any major revelations or=20 shifts of opinion are going to take place in extending this thread. heck,=20 these issues have been debated and argued since i have been on the MML and i= =20 have yet to see a resolution. anyway, those are my thoughts on the matters,=20 in the end the individual DM and player group is gonna decide. to be honest, i have really moved away from the whole Alph vs Thy debates.=20 IMO they do not settle anything. My own Mystaran projects have mostly moved=20 away from the canon nations. That and Asheron's Call, Baldur's Gate, and=20 Torment are why i have been less vocal on this forum. Filling this virgin=20 territories is fun and less stressful. Needless to say, once i get off my=20 butt and finish some materials they should prove to be quite=20 interesting...and dare i say nifty. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 19:29:26 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Soderfjord in Dungeon Magazine Dave Keyser wrote: >> Alright, I dug out the issue last night, I forgot how much extra detail there was on the area.<< Thanks for the info! It's very interesting, and very helpful. I may have to try to find that issue of Dungeon. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message.