========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 17:10:21 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "Shawn J." Subject: Just a test MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm having some problems with my email not being sent...this is just a test to assure it will post to the MML. --- Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 17:31:48 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "Shawn J." Subject: Re: Just a test MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/22/01 5:19:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, KeepRofZ@CS.COM writes: > I'm having some problems with my email not being sent...this is just a test > to assure it will post to the MML. I guess everyone is just out and about. Well when they come back could somebody tell me, where is the canon reference to the "1000 wizards" and is there a reference to how many wizards are on the Alphatian council? Also, does it say what level they are at /specifically/? Thanks for any help you can offer because I haven't been able to track down the references myself in either the PWAs or DotE (are they in WotI?). --- Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 12:24:48 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Richard Tongue Subject: An Online Game MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If anyone's interested, I'm running an OD&D game set in the world of Pelinore, starting Saturday. Just have a look at www. tongue. fsnet. co. uk/ Pelinore.htm (omitting spaces) if you are interested. Richard Tongue ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 15:42:10 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Just a test In-Reply-To: <4d.ea103ca.288ca044@cs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > I guess everyone is just out and about. I was begining to wonder too... > Well > when they come back could > somebody tell me, where is the canon reference to > the "1000 wizards" and is > there a reference to how many wizards are on the > Alphatian council? Also, > does it say what level they are at /specifically/? It is definately in DotE and I am sure it says 1000 members, and that to be/get on the council you have to have reached ultimate level (i.e. 36) and be a spellcaster. As far as I know clerics are not explicitly included or excluded from the council. Most people assume there are members that are clerics, but I don't know if they would number high or low, or even exist (even if in theory they could). I think the best place to look would be under the description of how you can join the council. And, I think the 1000 is given in the introduction somewhere. > Thanks for any help you > can offer because I haven't been able to track down > the references myself in > either the PWAs or DotE (are they in WotI?). I'll check DotE tonight, if no one else beats me to it. Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 16:07:12 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: M2&3 (just breaking the silence.) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I could at the moment buy M2 &/or 3. How good are they. Given I am fairly unlikely to ever get a master level campaign running (given how slow my current one goes) I'm debating buying them. I am but a poor student on a budget, but I have mised out on buying some "gems" (B6,X12,CM2,CM7,CM9,AC11, & I think M5) and I am kicking myself a little. I don't really want to kick myself again later, but I don't want to spend money I don't really have on something I'll never need. What I would like to know is what are the pros and cons of these modules, What happens (and how much bearing it has on mystara) and generally how good they are. Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 17:17:19 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Kar Ess Subject: Re: An Online Game In-Reply-To: <000601c112a0$ee11dd20$ab6487d9@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Said it wasn't there. Did you make a mistake in the URL? --- Richard Tongue wrote: > If anyone's interested, I'm running an OD&D game set in the world of > Pelinore, starting Saturday. Just have a look at www. tongue. fsnet. co. uk/ > Pelinore.htm (omitting spaces) if you are interested. > > Richard Tongue > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 20:45:51 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Slavery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Christopher Cherrington" > > This is my point, if slavery is in effect in Thyatis, who makes the slave > population? As I see it, there are several possible sources for Thyatian slaves: 1) Raids on Davanian coast, including but not limited to the Hinterlands. 2) Criminals guilty of serious crimes may be enslaved regardless of original social status. 3) Thyatians might purchase slaves from Alphatia and other slaveholding societies. 4) Finally, even if all other sources dry up, it is quite possible that the rate at which Thyatian slaves reproduce well exceeds the rate at which they manage to attain freedom -- but if that happened, the price of Thyatian slaves would have to rise. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 20:48:33 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Slavery in the Known World, Part 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Another point that should be kept in mind is that goblinoids are considered to be less than human and thus keeping them as slaves is accepted in nations that otherwise ban or restrict the practice. Two thirds of the population of Honor Island in Ierendi are goblin slaves, as were many goblinoids who got caught in Glantri in the 1000 AC time frame. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 01:01:33 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: ramhog Subject: Re: Just a test In-Reply-To: <4d.ea103ca.288ca044@cs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > I guess everyone is just out and about. Well when they come back could >somebody tell me, where is the canon reference to the "1000 wizards" and is >there a reference to how many wizards are on the Alphatian council? Also, I believe the first canon reference is in M5 Talons of Night. Here's the line under "Alphatian Background", page 44: "The empire built it's power on a solid foundation of magic with over 1,000 36th-level magic-users on it's ruling council." Notice it says *over* 1,000 magic users. Hmmm... VVH -- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 01:49:46 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Alphatia: Rulers, Pre-WOTI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If I recall correctly, the population of Alphatia in terms of citizens (i.e. spell-casters) is 400,000 or so. A figure I consider low for such a sizable Empire. If that is the figure used, then I would point out that one in 400 mages is 36th level! I would guess that the ratio should be more like 1 in 10,000; this would give a population of 10,000,000 citizens (a much more reasonable figure for a place of this size). If we keep the population the same, then the number of 36th level wizards becomes "merely" 40. Canon: Alphaks Volcano: 5,000 Ambur: 200,000 Aquas: 70,000 Arogansa: 150,000 Blackheart: 50,000 Floating Ar: 150,000 Greenspur: 600,000 Haven: 1,200,000 Limn: 250,000 Stonewall: 1,600,000 Stoutfellow: 60,000 Theranderol: 200,000 Vertiloch: 2,000,000 Total: 6,385,000 Okay, I was wrong, the number would be 638 or 639 depending on how you handle the fraction. I think Alatian Islands: 45,000 Bellisaria: approximately (assuming 50 villages of around 400) 60,000 Esterhold: 17,000 Dunadale: 18,000 Deirden: 3,000 East Portage: 1,000 Ekto: 15,000 Trikelios: 20,000 Edairo: 40,000 Qeodhar: 13,000 Total: 232,000 New Total for Empire: 6,617,000 New Total for 36th level wizards: 661 Pretty impressive! George ----- Original Message ----- From: "ramhog" To: Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 2:01 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Just a test > > > > I guess everyone is just out and about. Well when they come back could > >somebody tell me, where is the canon reference to the "1000 wizards" and is > >there a reference to how many wizards are on the Alphatian council? Also, > > I believe the first canon reference is in M5 Talons of Night. Here's > the line under "Alphatian Background", page 44: "The empire built > it's power on a solid foundation of magic with over 1,000 36th-level > magic-users on it's ruling council." > > Notice it says *over* 1,000 magic users. Hmmm... > > > VVH > -- > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 09:23:58 CEST Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Giulio Caroletti Subject: Informations on M2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Furneaux wrote: > I could at the moment buy M2 &/or 3. Given I am fairly > unlikely to ever get a master level campaign running I'm > debating buying them. I am but a poor student on a budget Yes, I understand your situation...by the way, what kind of studies? I know it has little significance to the list, but I am always curious about the others' listmembers RW activities... > What I would like to know is what are the pros and > cons of these modules, What happens (and how much > bearing it has on mystara) and generally how good they > are. Ok, I checked and there were no reviews at reviews.dnd.starflung.com but remember to take a look there, because there are several interesting ones. I don't know about M3, but I can assure you that M2 is an interesting adventure (although I don't know exactly how good...I mean, I never played it). Many of the events found in M2 were used in the Almanacs (1016, if I remember correctly), although a little modified. Anyway (I go by memory, am at the University now and don't have the adventure with me, obviously), the plot is simple: there is a war between Thyatis and Alphatia for the control of Norwold. If you have CM1 "Test of Warlords", you will find out that the last adventure (the showdown between the empires on Norwold's soil) presents the involved armies, and both armies are exactly the same as those presented in M2. Apart from a detailed account of how the war goes on (week 1 this happens, week 2 that happens and so on), the involved players must solve a number of minor situations, find allies, and play an important role in the war. The adventure is interesting, and it presents NPCs that has been used in the Almanac. If you find it at a reasonable price I'd suggest you to buy it, but don't kill yourself to do it. There are other supplements that are more worth, surely (CM1 and CM2, as an example; or M1). Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 02:23:22 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: VIRUS WARNING Comments: To: Edmund Allison , Everett Bradshaw , Jake Parker , Jason Gilger , Jeff Querner , Joe Doran , Josh C Matthews , Meri , Naoko Osafune , Heroes Only Mailing List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My Outlook Express may have sent everyone a virus called sircam. Do NOT open any strange looking file that may have been attached. If you have already here is the removal tool: http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.sircam.worm@mm.removal.tool.h tml Angelo ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:19:55 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: M2&3 Chris Furneaux wrote: > I am but a poor > student on a budget, but I have mised out on buying > some "gems" (B6,X12,CM2,CM7,CM9,AC11, & I think M5) M5 is brilliant (I'll never miss an opportunity to say this), but you really must play it, if you own it. Most of the info found in it, has been used in writing other stuff, so if you have PWAs, DotE and that sort of stuff, you aren't missing out on major info, just on an excellent adventure. But M5 wasn't the module you had at hand... > What I would like to know is what are the pros and > cons of these modules, What happens (and how much > bearing it has on mystara) and generally how good they > are. M2 (Vengeance of Alphaks) is potentially a good adventure. The problem here is that we're looking at 32 pages. 8 of these are just basic dungeon crawling, 4 are maps, 2 are War Machine listings for Norwold/Thyatian/Alphatian forces, 2 pages are descriptions of the war (you have to expand considerably on this; I'm guessing that this would actually be most of the adventure), 1 page of the Sea Machine (naval battles in the War Machine), 2 pages of Monsters and Artifacts, and 1 page of pre-rolled characters. The rest is introduction, encounters, illustrations, and non-basic dungeon crawling. You also get more hex-maps of Norwold, one of them containing info on troop movements throughout the war. The adventure isn't exactly outstanding, the dungeon crawls are uninspiring. I'd say that the troop statistics and the briefly described war are the best parts of this adventure, and the war needs to be seriously expanded on. Oh, and the adventure won't be very good unless your PCs have do! minions in Norwold, so they're personally involved in defending the nation. On the other hand it is solidly set in Mystara and contains *some* info on Norwold and Alphatia that may prove useful. M3 (Twilight Calling) is the same size (32 pages), but that's where the similarities end. This adventure has next to nothing to do with Mystara, the adventure takes place in and around the prison dimension containing the Carnifex, an ancient evil race, who uses dark magic, and might eventually have been able to challenge the Immortals themselves. The PCs travel through seven rainbow realms, where they have to defeat guardians to enter the Carnifex dimension, where they're finally obliterated (most likely outcome). Each of the rainbow realms is pretty ingenious, but this module is worthless if you aren't going to play it. And to play it, you need level 33-36 characters. They'll be going up against HD39*****, 55**, 88 (that's from the first 10 pages) monsters. Or how about 70 10th level elves? The only Mystara-expanding item of note is the small quotes from books written by Mystaran celebrities, such as Charms of the Green Realm by Etienne d'Ambreville or Origins of Magic by the! Baron of Igorov. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 06:05:59 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Pat Subject: Re: VIRUS WARNING In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > -----Original Message----- > From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On > Behalf Of Angelo Bertolli > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 4:23 AM > My Outlook Express may have sent everyone a virus called sircam. Do NOT > open any strange looking file that may have been attached. If you have > already here is the removal tool: > > http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.sircam.worm@mm.remo > val.tool.h > tml That should be all together..... back to lurking Pat patsite@aye.net "Don't think! Just pick up that phone, and make it happen!" - Scully, The X-Files ABV89-0570-KY ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 03:18:34 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Informations on M2 In-Reply-To: <20010723072358.IWBW14413.fep36-svc.tin.it@[127.0.0.1]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Yes, I understand your situation...by the way, what > kind > of studies? I know it has little significance to the > list, > but I am always curious about the others' > listmembers RW > activities... I understand. I currently study architecture & building science honours, with a slight lean towards computers in those areas. done 3 years, and have three more following this one to go. > Ok, I checked and there were no reviews at > reviews.dnd.starflung.com > but remember to take a look there, because there are > several > interesting ones. yeah...checked for that too :p > Apart from a detailed account of how the war goes on > (week 1 this happens, week 2 that happens and so > on), If you find it at a > reasonable > price I'd suggest you to buy it, but don't kill > yourself > to do it. There are other supplements that are more > worth, surely (CM1 and CM2, as an example; or M1). well reasonable, and afordable are different things. I could but I have other things to spend my money on. Like armor and weapons for sword fighting. Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 08:20:53 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Mischa Gelman Subject: Re: M2&3 (just breaking the silence.) In-Reply-To: <20010722230712.92885.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 22 Jul 2001, Chris Furneaux wrote: > I could at the moment buy M2 &/or 3. How good are > they. M2 - A good master-level adventure set in Norworld. Expands the Alphaks storyline from M1, but M1 is hardly necessary as a precursor. It would play as a good hack-n-slash or diplomacy-and-stealth/cloak-and-dagger or strong-RP module, depending on how it is run, as it is fairly flexible IMO. Nothing special, but a pretty decent module. M3 - Different. Most of the adventure takes place in alternate worlds, which do make for some interesting role-playing, though they're not very well fleshed-out. This is much more of a fatal/unbalanced adventure in ways than M2 and a bit more structured (IMO). It's the sole canon source on the carnifex. It's not a waste of money but it's pretty irrelevent if you don't want to run high-powered gambits. > some "gems" (B6,X12,CM2,CM7,CM9,AC11, & I think M5) B6 and M5 aren't quite gems, IMO. Both do a little world-building but overall they're nothing to write home about. Is AC11 the creature catalogue? If so, it is a very handy resource - grab it if it pops up again. > What I would like to know is what are the pros and > cons of these modules, What happens (and how much > bearing it has on mystara) and generally how good they > are. M2: Alphaks tries to destroy Norworld. Alphatia, Norworld and Thyatis get entangled in a long, drawn-out war. Pros: Best use of the War Machine I've seen, with a well-plotted conflict Relatively balanced for a group of master's level characters Fairly flexible Cons: Umm...none come to mind. Quality: Above-average/Good M3: The Carnifex, a race of shapechangers, seek to break out of their other-dimensional prison. The PCs hop from world to world to get 7 key items, then have to face the Carnifex themselves. Pros: A powerful opponent which could be a major campaign presence if you want to alter the storyline a bit Many unique settings Cons: Settings not very well fleshed-out Too many ways for characters to be killed; a bit unbalanced Quality: Average Hope that helps - Mischa While television is supposed to be 'free', it has in fact become the creature, the servant and indeed the prostitute of merchandising - Walter Lippman, 1959 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 08:54:05 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Zzonga MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Alex Benson [mailto:Alex295@AOL.COM] > > anyway...i really don't see zzonga addiction as being a > required game tool to > explain the existence yet lack of visibility of the Grand > Council. IMO > rivalries, research, research security, and plain old ego > trips should easily > suffice in filling this role. in fact, IMC (defunct) i use to > play heavily on > this...especially the egos. arrogant mages make much more > formidable foes (or > employers) when they have their heads clear. > IMC I have used this as the tool for their non-existence. That is just how I flavored my campaign. Alphatian mages are quite different from the rest of the Known World. They tend to share more information than any other mage. In fact, that is how they gain a reputation as a spell caster. The more outrageous the spell or flamboyant, colorful, et. then the spell is worth more; and more mages will want it. I imagine it is like a hackers dream world, everyone is sharing their code with all the rest, giving recognition to the most prolific of hackers. I also imagine the council as being so zzonga induced that they sit around their seedy little dens and rather than lift a finger to create any new spells, that they just collect spells of different types from all over to trade like pokemon cards. Now not all mages in Alphatia are this way, you have your extroverts/introverts, in every society. You still have the rivalries that you explained before, but out of the 1000+ mages of 36th level, most are hedonistic in the old style of Alphatia (calling their addiction secret research for new and more fantastic magical research). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 09:07:54 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Slavery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: David Knott [mailto:uashell@EARTHLINK.NET] > > As I see it, there are several possible sources for Thyatian slaves: > > 1) Raids on Davanian coast, including but not limited to the > Hinterlands. > Possibly exploiting the 'new citizens' of the Hinterlands to capture the slaves of nearby tribes/cultures for trade. > 2) Criminals guilty of serious crimes may be enslaved regardless of > original social status. > You would then get a large Hattian & Espan population of slaves, possibly these slaves were used for colonizing areas that then revolted from the Empire (Declaring Independence in Heldann & the Savage Coast), the Empire would not record such revolutions as it may give rise to more. This would also be good to explain a large Ochalean & Nuari population of slaves. > 3) Thyatians might purchase slaves from Alphatia and other > slaveholding > societies. > I don't think Thyatians would trust slaves from a popular enemy of the state like Alphatia. Although, buying back captured citizens that were enslaved by the Alphatians, then a greedy Senator could possibly not give back their citizenship and send them in as gladiatorial fodder... makes a good campaign... ;) > 4) Finally, even if all other sources dry up, it is quite > possible that the > rate at which Thyatian slaves reproduce well exceeds the rate at which > they manage to attain freedom -- but if that happened, the price of > Thyatian slaves would have to rise. > Not necessarily, breeders would be worth more, but not the offspring they produce. Though trading in slaves in this matter should be painted with a darker picture of slavery. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 09:20:04 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Slavery in the Known World, Part 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: David Knott [mailto:uashell@EARTHLINK.NET] > > Another point that should be kept in mind is that goblinoids are > considered to be less than human and thus keeping them as slaves > is accepted in nations that otherwise ban or restrict the practice. > Two thirds of the population of Honor Island in Ierendi are goblin > slaves, as were many goblinoids who got caught in Glantri in the > 1000 AC time frame. > Slaves of this nature would be good for mining or large imperial slaving operations. Not many citizens would want a goblinoid house slave. Other countries (like Karameikos) would probably go with, the only good goblin is a dead goblin, hard-line. Otherwise, their would be a pretty rich baron next to the Dymrak, exporting prime goblins into Thyatis, to be hard labor and additional gladiatorial fodder. In Imperial Rome, many slaves were also the teachers and personal tutors of the richer citizens. These slaves most likely instilled the compassion of good treatment towards slaves. Though at Rome's hedonistic height, many slaves acted in plays, usually the parts of actors that died in a scene (what better way to play a death, than to actually die?) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 09:21:24 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Slavery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <<1) Raids on Davanian coast, including but not limited to the Hinterlands.>> offhand i would say that this would be the most viable option for slaves. however, that avenue is complicated by the "citizenship doctrine". for example, DotE has the in character material for Thyatis being narrated by (and to) a new Hinterlander citizen. To me, this implies the stressing of Thyatis in making citizens of the conquered peoples. I guess "unofficial" slave raid scould be carried out. Likewise, the expansions could have seen battles where the native hinterlanders were given "surrender or face the consequences (death or enslavement)" type ultimatums. Still that's alot of defiance and alot of slaves to come from one area to feed the canon established dependence upon alot of slaves. <<2) Criminals guilty of serious crimes may be enslaved regardless of original social status.>> offhand, i would agree that criminals would see enslavement. however, i don't see these convict slaves being used in anything except heavy labor tasks; mining, construction, etc. i don't see them being used for household slave positions or any positions where their antisocial behavior could threaten the citizenry. petty crime may work, but i am unsure if the justice system would sentence someone to slave status for petty crimes. I think though that alot would depend on the Thy mindset and their acceptance of being sentenced to slavery. A defiant slave is trouble. Yet, Thy Slave Laws undermine slave punishment. In RW Rome, escaped slaves were punished by being impaled or crucified...ouch!!! <<3) Thyatians might purchase slaves from Alphatia and other slaveholding societies.>> i disagree out of principle....Alphers and Thys swapping slaves....for shame :-) anyway...Thyatis is given as being a bit slave crazy with sizable slave populations. i don't think that trade would fill the required slave numbers. <<4) Finally, even if all other sources dry up, it is quite possible that the rate at which Thyatian slaves reproduce well exceeds the rate at which they manage to attain freedom -- but if that happened, the price of Thyatian slaves would have to rise.>> yes....Thy slave numbers and prices are given as being numerous (as high as 30% IIRC in many areas) and inexpensive (cheaper than most mundane weaponry). They are so cheap and numerous that virtually every household has at least one. If slave status was "until death" there would be few problems in determining just where Thyatis gets its slaves and maintains those slave numbers. By Law Thy slaves can buy their freedom. however, that law may be a bit of a "pipe dream" or based upon good intentions than actual use. afterall, a slave does not have an income, any personal wealth having to be acquired through charity, scavenging/discovery, theft, or dumb luck. Buying one's freedom may rarely happen, but the merest chance of accumulating that wealth to buy that freedom may be a good way to maintain order within the ranks of slaves. Even if a slave gathers some cash, who is to say the owner may not engineer a plot to keep the slave in legal bondage. Another angle is that the Mystaran "gold piece" is greatly underappreciated by the players and DMs. Whereas 100 gps may be chump change or a tip to a charismatic bar wench, a Mystaran family could live on that same bit of jink (PS reference from my time playing Torment) for several weeks. PCs acquire wealth quicker than normal folks. They also spend it quicker...but that is a different subject....anyway i hate economics. What the noob PCs find from that stereotypical kobold warband, may exceed the income of an average family for several years. For a slave, it may take decades to accumulate and keep the price of their freedom. IMO most of the problems in Thys Slave System are products of its design by TSR. These details were not thought out...and truthfully i doubt they were expected to be pondered by the fanbase. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 15:50:25 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Slavery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christopher Cherrington wrote: > > You would then get a large Hattian & Espan population of slaves, possibly > these slaves were used for colonizing areas that then revolted from the > Empire (Declaring Independence in Heldann & the Savage Coast), the Empire > would not record such revolutions as it may give rise to more. This would > also be good to explain a large Ochalean & Nuari population of slaves. In the Savage Coast the Espa established a single recognized colony, the Barony of Narvaez. The Espa population was never enslaved itself, though they might have left Thyatis after some unrest. Has to the HK, they were not slaves, just an extremist wing of the Temple of Vanya who left Thyatis after leaving the main Church. However, they might have imported many slaves from the original population of the Savage Baronies (Oltec/Nithian). >> 3) Thyatians might purchase slaves from Alphatia and other >> slaveholding >> societies. > > I don't think Thyatians would trust slaves from a popular enemy of the state > like Alphatia. No, but they could buy slaves from the Iron Ring, Ierendi pirates, unscrupulous Darokin merchants, Ostlander raiders or from Jaibul. They would enslave any Alphatian captives from the IoD, of course, unless they were to be exchanged for Thyatians captured by the Alphatians. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 15:55:40 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Slavery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alex Benson wrote: > <<1) Raids on Davanian coast, including but not limited to the Hinterlands.>> > > offhand i would say that this would be the most viable option for slaves. > however, that avenue is complicated by the "citizenship doctrine". for > example, DotE has the in character material for Thyatis being narrated by > (and to) a new Hinterlander citizen. To me, this implies the stressing of > Thyatis in making citizens of the conquered peoples. I think they would make citizens of those who surrender, and enslave those who resist. > <<2) Criminals guilty of serious crimes may be enslaved regardless of > original social status.>> > > offhand, i would agree that criminals would see enslavement. however, i don't > see these convict slaves being used in anything except heavy labor tasks; > mining, construction, etc. i don't see them being used for household slave > positions or any positions where their antisocial behavior could threaten the > citizenry. petty crime may work, but i am unsure if the justice system would > sentence someone to slave status for petty crimes. This depends on the entity or type of the crime. I suppose that not paying debts could award a sentence to slavery. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:03:22 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Slavery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Alex Benson [mailto:Alex295@AOL.COM] > > IMO most of the problems in Thys Slave System are products of > its design by > TSR. These details were not thought out...and truthfully i > doubt they were > expected to be pondered by the fanbase. > I believe this is the biggest problem that I have for Thyatis. DotE gave a lot of information, and skipped allot of detail. For two Empires, as enormous as they are, they could have published a Gazetteer for each kingdom. I know they actually couldn't, seeing they never completed Wendar, and Hule. But that just leaves room for good DM's to fill in all the blanks. We got allot of good comments on the slave issue in Thyatis. Why not put all this together as a supplement? Sort of a Gazetteer of the Slaves of Thyatis. We could also revamp the price list of slaves, the prices given are good for purchasing slaves; but for them to buy their freedom (and make it even more of a pipe dream), you need to consider the price of training, upkeep, food, et. There could be slave guilds that not only specialize on buying and selling slaves, but training and behavioral enhancements made also. The Scribes Guild in Glantri had a nifty idea, placing a delayed blast fireball in the heads of their members (slaves like this would be worth allot, the cost of the enhancement, and loyalty). Slave owners would want geas spells or other protections on house slaves to ensure their loyalty. Guilds would also specialize in training the more intelligent slaves for tutors, seneschals, scribes, heralds, et. They also would be pretty powerful, as they may also train them in the fine art of subterfuge and espionage on the powerful Senate members who could afford such luxury items (and thus buying their freedom with information). Possibly directly controlled by the Shadow Hand. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:10:20 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Slavery in the Known World, Part 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >From the Cannon Timeline, I have come up with a slavery timeline. This would also help in determining the cultural evolution of slaves in Thyatis. Most slaves before AC 0 are a mixture of anti-Alphatian stock, imports from Alphatia like the mundane Cypric stock and Jennites from Bellisaria. Thyatians enslaved by the Alphatians, whose status does not change much after AC 0. Beginning at AC 0 Emperor Zendrolion I Tatriokanitas begins conquests of the Ochalea and Pearl Islands. Many rulers, not wanting to face defeat, help by enslaving rivalries and selling them to mainland Thyatis. Pearl Islanders, resist any enslavement, and many die in their behavioral training. AC 12 Thyatians build a trading station called Cape Alpha, many local Antalian tribes are enslaved and sent to Thyatis before the station is destroyed. AC 20 Valentia the Justicar makes her Citizens' Proclamation, but most Ochaleans and Pearl Islanders are all ready enslaved. AC 150 Thyatis begins enslaving the local tribes in the southern areas of the Ylari. AC 313 The Hattians rebel, Emperor Alexian II defeats them and enslaves the northern part of the country. AC 410-443 Heavy trade with Minrothad spreads Lycanthropy to many imported slaves. AC 571 Thyatis establishes prisons on Ierendi, enslaving local peoples. AC 586 Thyatis is at war with Alphatia, enslaving captured Alphatians, and in Ierendi they enslave some halflings with their ships in harbor. AC 827 Alphatians expelled from Alasiya, Thyatians happy to capture many colonists, as they leave, and enslave them. AC 890? (not in cannon) Espans expulsion from Thyatis, those that do not leave are enslaved. AC 900 Thyatians expand and enslave many of the Isle of Dawn, Traladara, Northern Reaches, Hinterlands, and Oceansend. AC 960 In Thincol's revolt against the Alphatian Spike Assault, enslaves many captured Alphatians. Many Thyatians are also enslaved as Thincol establishes his rule over the Thyatians. AC 980 Many new trading of slaves from Jaibul, Helskir, Oceansend, Landfall, Ierendi pirates, Iron Ring, et. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:22:52 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: M2&3 In-Reply-To: <200107230919.LAA00120@runningman.mobilixnet.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Jacob Skytte wrote: > M5 is brilliant (I'll never miss an opportunity to say this), but you really must play it, if you own it. Most of the info found in it, has been used in writing other stuff, so if you have PWAs, DotE and that sort of stuff, you aren't missing out on major info, just on an excellent adventure. But M5 wasn't the module you had at hand... m5??!??! Aren't there only 3 M modules? Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 08:22:41 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: The Master Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IMC the Master is remodeled after Darken Rahl of Terry Goodkinds novel, = Wizard's First Rule. He is manipulative and sincere to those who accept = him but vile and nasty of those who oppose him.=20 JK Wolf >>> ramhog@PRODIGY.NET 07/12/01 02:21PM >>> I was thinking of recasting the Master as a kind of cross between Ayatollah Khomeini and Charles Manson with a little Gandhi thrown in for flavor. I was also considering not even giving him any magical abilities and having him go on sheer personality alone, maybe making him a low to mid-level thief, instead. After entertaining that notion a bit it occurred to me that I came up with Thulsa Doom from the first Conan movie. But, so what? :D I like the idea of having a major bad guy without any "real" power. Has anybody else tinkered to that extent with the Masters character? Or any other major baddie? VVH -- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp=20 The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/=20 To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:34:09 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: M2&3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit M4 is "Five Coins for a Kingdom" M5 is "Talons of Night" George ----- Original Message ----- From: "SteelAngel" To: Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] M2&3 > On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Jacob Skytte wrote: > > > M5 is brilliant (I'll never miss an opportunity to say this), but you really must play it, if you own it. Most of the info found in it, has been used in writing other stuff, so if you have PWAs, DotE and that sort of stuff, you aren't missing out on major info, just on an excellent adventure. But M5 wasn't the module you had at hand... > > m5??!??! > > Aren't there only 3 M modules? > > > > Ethan > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:35:32 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Slavery in the Known World, Part 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" According to the previous post's timeline, the slave population in Thyatis would be made of this... A mixed, or Mulatto, race of slaves made of Alphatian 24.90% Cypric 3.11% Jennite 2.49% Thyatian 39.42% Ochalea 16.60% Nuari 1.04% Antalian 12.45% This would be the population of 71.37% of the slaves. The other 28.63% of slaves would be made up these percentages... Alphatian 35.53% Cypric 2.59% Jennite 2.07% Thyatian 7.40% Ochalea 1.48% Nuari 0.15% Antalian 1.48% Ylari 9.25% Hattian 17.03% Makai 0.35% Halflings 0.01% Espan 3.78% Traladaran 3.55% Hinterlands 14.81% Sindhi 0.52% ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 19:36:45 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Slavery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christopher Cherrington wrote: > > There could be slave guilds that not > only specialize on buying and selling slaves, but training and behavioral > enhancements made also. Interesting, but I think that in Thyatis this "enhancements" would be restricted by law, since the slave have some basic rights (you cannot tamper with their minds, I suppose). In Alphatia, OTOH, this could be easily done (though Alphatians seem to rely on slaves mostly for brute-force labor, not for complex matters). -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 19:41:15 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Slavery in the Known World, Part 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christopher Cherrington wrote: > > >From the Cannon Timeline, I have come up with a slavery timeline. All good, except this point: > AC 890? (not in cannon) Espans expulsion from Thyatis, those that do not > leave are enslaved. This need some more detail. As is, it conflicts with the Savage Coast timeline, which implies that the Ispans were free colonists, and their barony was sanctioned by the Emperor. I suppose that the Ispans who did not leave could have been enslaved, but we should try to come up with a reason compatible with the SC history. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 18:35:26 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: jason o'brien Subject: Re: M2&3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > m5??!??! > > Aren't there only 3 M modules? > there are 5 M modules to my knowledge. it is the IM modules that only had 3. Mortus. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:39:47 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Slavery in the Known World, Part 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Anthropologically speaking, the slaves of Thyatis would consist of a majority of a light to tanned skin, medium build, light brown to black hair, brown eyed Mulatto race. And a large majority of pale Caucasians of a slightly smaller to larger build, and a 20% minority (not including the mulatto) of darker skinned peoples. Almost like the real Rome. All of this is based on speculations of population growths within the Empire, I did not include an other percentage, as each race of human would include a very small percent of 'other'. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 08:33:23 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Richard Tongue Subject: Re: An Online Game MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Try just www. tongue. fsnet. co. uk ( again omitting spaces ) - you can reach through the links on the main page. -----Original Message----- From: Kar Ess To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Date: Monday, July 23, 2001 01:20 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] An Online Game >Said it wasn't there. Did you make a mistake in the URL? > >--- Richard Tongue wrote: >> If anyone's interested, I'm running an OD&D game set in the world of >> Pelinore, starting Saturday. Just have a look at www. tongue. fsnet. co. uk/ >> Pelinore.htm (omitting spaces) if you are interested. >> >> Richard Tongue >> >> ******************************************************************** >> The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >> The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >> To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >> with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. >> > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger >http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:25:56 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Mystara in Dungeon Magazine >PS- Geoff, did you ever get my email about the Illuminati thing? Oops, yes I did. Sorry about a lack of a response thus far; things have been really busy at this end. Rest assured I'll get back to you ASAP. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:38:23 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: M2&3 SteelAngel wrote: > m5??!??! > > Aren't there only 3 M modules? There are five Master-level adventure modules. For those who are interested, I just finished reviewing these and most of the Companion-level modules today at http://reviews.dnd.starflung.com/ Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:43:20 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Slavery in the Known World, Part 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Agathokles [mailto:agathokles@LIBERO.IT] > > All good, except this point: > > > AC 890? (not in cannon) Espans expulsion from Thyatis, > those that do not > > leave are enslaved. > > This need some more detail. As is, it conflicts with the Savage Coast > timeline, which implies that the Ispans were free colonists, and their > barony was sanctioned by the Emperor. I suppose that the > Ispans who did > not leave could have been enslaved, but we should try to come > up with a > reason compatible with the SC history. > -- Sorry, I borrowed an idea from the Vaults of Pandius, on an article by James Mishler. Here is the link http://dnd.starflung.com/ispan.html The timeline he draws up for the Ispan or Espan peoples would put this time at AC 893-900 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:55:34 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Slavery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Agathokles [mailto:agathokles@LIBERO.IT] > > Christopher Cherrington wrote: > > > > There could be slave guilds that not > > only specialize on buying and selling slaves, but training > and behavioral > > enhancements made also. > > Interesting, but I think that in Thyatis this "enhancements" would be > restricted by law, since the slave have some basic rights (you cannot > tamper with their minds, I suppose). In Alphatia, OTOH, this could be > easily done (though Alphatians seem to rely on slaves mostly for > brute-force labor, not for complex matters). > -- Restricted is the key word. The delayed blast fireball implant would be a definite restriction; except on criminals that have a specific talent usable by the government. But a geas on an important slave would not be. Although you may have to purchase a specific license to have a slave given this enhancement, and pay a yearly fee (both to the government and the caster). Well worth it, especially if it is a house slave bought to care for your children or at home finances. Not to mention, if you have unscrupulous slave owners, who knows what spells may be on their slaves (thus creating a black market on enhancement spells for slaves). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 15:04:56 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Slavery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Another interesting note about RW slavery... The Islamic Turks used to capture their enemies, then castrate them and train them in their armies (only the young captives). These armies were very formidable and loyal. This sounds like something Hule would do to the Sindhi and Daro captives in their aggressions. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 15:12:51 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Slavery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Agathokles [mailto:agathokles@LIBERO.IT] > > Christopher Cherrington wrote: > > > > There could be slave guilds that not > > only specialize on buying and selling slaves, but training > and behavioral > > enhancements made also. > > Interesting, but I think that in Thyatis this "enhancements" would be > restricted by law, since the slave have some basic rights (you cannot > tamper with their minds, I suppose). In Alphatia, OTOH, this could be > easily done (though Alphatians seem to rely on slaves mostly for > brute-force labor, not for complex matters). > -- Imagine in 3E, the use of Bull Strength, to enhance a slave doing brute-force labor! I'd hate to run across a couple of Alphatian slaves ;) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 15:34:37 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Slavery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Of course, in Alphatia, you may have several servitor races made by Mages. Something along the lines that Ancient Nithia did with the Gnolls. I am sure there are probably several mages that have made some type of mixing or grafting enhancements on some of their slaves, like adding extra arms to till the soil with or making 6 legged horses to pull large loads. In Blackheart or Shraek, undead slaves would be quite popular (no need to feed them), then again the rulers of those places would need 'live' slaves to feed upon. The Honor Island goblins were supposed to be larger and more intelligent than your normal goblin (possibly by many years of enhancements and breeding programs). They probably also tried to make them look more human or pleasing in appearance. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:36:50 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: M2&3 (just breaking the silence.) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > some "gems" (B6,X12,CM2,CM7,CM9,AC11, & I think > M5) > > B6 and M5 aren't quite gems, IMO. Both do a little > world-building but > overall they're nothing to write home about. Is AC11 > the creature > catalogue? book of wonderous inventions I think. I just want to know who the other basted in wellington buying them is! B6, I would have liked based on recent campaign events. Anyone know what the adventure in AC2 is like? Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:34:12 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dave Keyser Organization: Palmchip Subject: Re: Slavery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christopher Cherrington wrote: > Another interesting note about RW slavery... > The Islamic Turks used to capture their enemies, then castrate them and > train them in their armies (only the young captives). These armies were > very formidable and loyal. This sounds like something Hule would do to the > Sindhi and Daro captives in their aggressions. Were those the Jannissaries? If so, then yes, Bruce Heard made that reference in Dragon Magazine. When Haldemar penetrates the Master's temple, he is attacked by jannissaries and is forced to teleport back to his ship. Of course, how Haldemar knew what jannissaries were or why he called them that is never explained. Dave Keyser ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:07:29 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Zzonga In-Reply-To: <71E277A7F4FCD2118A700008C79F7255A5E25F@JOSHUA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > but out of the 1000+ mages of 36th level, most are > hedonistic in the old > style of Alphatia (calling their addiction secret > research for new and more > fantastic magical research). The look at the pretty colours syndrome :p Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:20:52 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Just a test In-Reply-To: <20010722224210.44816.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > It is definately in DotE and I am sure it says 1000 > members, and that to be/get on the council you have > to > have reached ultimate level (i.e. 36) and be a > spellcaster. Pg. 6 DotE PGtA. "the Grand council is the other ruling body. Every user of magic who achieves ultimate mastery (36th level) can be on the council - though not everyone is because the number of councilers is limited to 1000." I was pretty damn close the first time. Are clerics really "users of magic"? It's debatable. Also this was established during the early empire. it is posible that since then things have sliped, there are no longer 1000 36th level wizards (I'll have a check of other sources later) but the reputation remains. Perhaps when a mage is seen as a potential council member he undergoes special training that could bring him up to ultimate level. Chris. Chris __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 22:33:27 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Slavery in the Known World, Part 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christopher Cherrington wrote: > > Sorry, I borrowed an idea from the Vaults of Pandius, on an article by James > Mishler. > Here is the link http://dnd.starflung.com/ispan.html > The timeline he draws up for the Ispan or Espan peoples would put this time > at AC 893-900 Yes, but James Mishler's timeline for Ispaniola doesn't say that the remaining Ispans were enslaved, it says they were allowed to stay as citizens and even given domains. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 22:37:56 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Slavery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christopher Cherrington wrote: > > Restricted is the key word. The delayed blast fireball implant would be a > definite restriction; except on criminals that have a specific talent usable > by the government. But a geas on an important slave would not be. I think geases are the only exception--to prevent slaves from fleeing. Modifications to increase the abilities would not be allowed. On slaves who were enslaved for crimes, geases would be routinely done (even the delayed blast fireball, probably). But not stuff like transforming them into humber hulks so that they can mine faster :) -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 16:34:40 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Slavery in the Known World, Part 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Agathokles [mailto:agathokles@LIBERO.IT] > > Christopher Cherrington wrote: > > > > Sorry, I borrowed an idea from the Vaults of Pandius, on an > article by James > > Mishler. > > Here is the link http://dnd.starflung.com/ispan.html > > The timeline he draws up for the Ispan or Espan peoples > would put this time > > at AC 893-900 > > Yes, but James Mishler's timeline for Ispaniola doesn't say that the > remaining Ispans were enslaved, it says they were allowed to stay as > citizens and even given domains. > -- I did give them a small percentage in the slave population. I imagine with most Ispans leaving; the ones left behind, would have very little political clout, and fallen prey to more powerful entities of the Empire. Not the total of their population would have been enslaved, only the ones not powerful enough to fill the vacuum left by the colonists. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 16:42:08 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Slavery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Keyser [mailto:dave@PALMCHIP.COM] > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 3:34 PM > > Christopher Cherrington wrote: > > > Another interesting note about RW slavery... > > The Islamic Turks used to capture their enemies, then > castrate them and > > train them in their armies (only the young captives). > These armies were > > very formidable and loyal. This sounds like something Hule > would do to the > > Sindhi and Daro captives in their aggressions. > > Were those the Janissaries? If so, then yes, Bruce Heard > made that reference > in Dragon Magazine. When Haldemar penetrates the Master's > temple, he is > attacked by janissaries and is forced to teleport back to his ship. > > Of course, how Haldemar knew what janissaries were or why he > called them > that is never explained. > Yes they were called Janissaries, and mainly used by the Ottoman Turks for invading the Slavic nations to the west (Vladd Tepes younger brother could have been one of these, and it was Vladd (Dracula) that fought against these armies in his homeland). Since Hule is often portrayed as a Mystaran Iran or medieval Persia, that is what the correlation is for Bruce to use Janissaries. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:23:58 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Richard Tongue Subject: Re: M2&3 (just breaking the silence.) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The adventure in AC2, Treasure of the Hideous One, is excellent, involving a vampire in a swamp in Karameikos, and a search for a lost treasure. It might be only eight pages, but it is excellent. I recommend you get hold of it if you can ( the screen is quite good too. ) RIchard TOngue -----Original Message----- From: Chris Furneaux To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Date: Monday, July 23, 2001 09:26 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] M2&3 (just breaking the silence.) >> > some "gems" (B6,X12,CM2,CM7,CM9,AC11, & I think >> M5) >> >> B6 and M5 aren't quite gems, IMO. Both do a little >> world-building but >> overall they're nothing to write home about. Is AC11 >> the creature >> catalogue? > >book of wonderous inventions I think. I just want to >know who the other basted in wellington buying them >is! B6, I would have liked based on recent campaign >events. > >Anyone know what the adventure in AC2 is like? > >Chris. > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger >http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:03:32 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Phillip Jones Subject: Re: M2&3 (just breaking the silence.) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The adventure in AC2 isn't too bad if you build on it IMO. As its set in the Blight Swamp, I fleshed it out a little more and incorporated parts of it into a Blight Swamp campaign I was writing at the time. The DM shield is far more useful though :) Phil (aka Alexander Korrigan, humble student of the Great School of Magic) I'm not evil - just practical. ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Furneaux To: Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 8:36 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] M2&3 (just breaking the silence.) > > > some "gems" (B6,X12,CM2,CM7,CM9,AC11, & I think > > M5) > > > > B6 and M5 aren't quite gems, IMO. Both do a little > > world-building but > > overall they're nothing to write home about. Is AC11 > > the creature > > catalogue? > > book of wonderous inventions I think. I just want to > know who the other basted in wellington buying them > is! B6, I would have liked based on recent campaign > events. > > Anyone know what the adventure in AC2 is like? > > Chris. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:12:50 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: jason o'brien Subject: Re: M2&3 (just breaking the silence.) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit for more information see the review in OD&Dities 4. Just doing my bit to help promote an excellent fanzine ;-) Mortus. > The adventure in AC2, Treasure of the Hideous One, is excellent, involving a > vampire in a swamp in Karameikos, and a search for a lost treasure. It might > be only eight pages, but it is excellent. I recommend you get hold of it if > you can ( the screen is quite good too. ) > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 18:09:10 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: James Mishler Subject: Re: Slavery in the Known World, Part 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <>> This need some more detail. As is, it conflicts with the Savage Coast timeline, which implies that the Ispans were free colonists, and their barony was sanctioned by the Emperor. I suppose that the Ispans who did not leave could have been enslaved, but we should try to come up with a reason compatible with the SC history.>> Sorry, I borrowed an idea from the Vaults of Pandius, on an article by James Mishler. Here is the link http://dnd.starflung.com/ispan.html The timeline he draws up for the Ispan or Espan peoples would put this time at AC 893-900> For what it's worth, indeed, during the Years of Unrest (861 to 893 IMC) many rebels (and their families, mind you) from the various colonies and territories would have been enslaved. However, those Ispans (and others) that had cut a deal with the emperor to remain in peace (or move on elsewhere) would not have been. So, many modern slaves could well trace their roots to an ancestor from one of the rebellions. James ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 19:16:46 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Mischa Gelman Subject: Re: M2&3 (just breaking the silence.) In-Reply-To: <20010723193650.41841.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Chris Furneaux wrote: > book of wonderous inventions I think. I just want to > know who the other basted in wellington buying them > is! B6, I would have liked based on recent campaign > events. B6 really isn't that handy unless your campaign centers on Specularum politics. Unless it is coupled with GAZ1 it's pretty useless too. The book of wondrous inventions is nice for a anachronistic campaign as many of the devices employ magic to mimic modern mechanics - washing machines, TVs, printing presses, etc. For a straight, by-the-book, typical-fantasy setting, it's impractical. Its utility really depends on the style of your campaign. - Mischa There is one thing that Christ and all the Christian saints have said with a sort of savage monotony. They have said simply that to be rich is to be in peculiar danger of moral wreck. - G.K. Chesterton ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:50:10 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: Zzonga MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > IMO zzonga would find a more receptive audiance among the nonspellcasting > majority, especially those mundaners that lack the ability to be anything > more than mere servants. I would imagine that the slums would be ripe with > zzonga dens, much like the real world ghettos with their crack and heroine. > Most addicts being those wishing to escape life. In the case of the GC, think of all of the rock stars, movie stars, and other wealthy celebrities who have too much time on their hands with nothing better to do, and you have your rational for the GC aristos to be steeped in zzonga. It would not be cheap and thus would not be accessible to the poorest mundaners. One thing which made crack so rampant in the inner cities was the cheap price, and highly addictive effects which led to high demand. The slums of Alphatia would have cheap imitations or diluted zzonga mixed with hard booze or some other kind of mixture. I agree that the addictive effects of zzonga could be beefed up a bit to make it really nasty. "All it takes is one sip, and you're hooked for life..." ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 18:32:08 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: The Master In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > ramhog@PRODIGY.NET 07/12/01 02:21PM > > > >Has anybody else tinkered to that extent with the Masters character? >Or any other major baddie? Not baddie, per se, but I use a different interpretation of most (if not all) of the d'Ambreville characters than the "eccentric but benevolent" depiction of them in Gaz3 and later products. My interpretation is more in line with the original presentation of them in X2 as villains, combined with the Machiavellian traits of the Amber family from Roger Zelazny's "Chronicles of Amber" (particularly the first volume). Etienne= Corwin Henri= Brand Isidore= Fiona Richard= Eric Andre-David= Julian Magdalene= Flora Charles= Caine Simon= Bleys Jean-Louis= Gerard Claude= Random Guillaume= Dalt Gaston= Delwin Isabelle= Llewella Catherine= Dara Etc. Some are departures from the Amber family characters, modified to fit the Mystara mold, their differing circumstances, and differing relationships. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 19:35:38 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: newsletters, newsletters, newsletters! Comments: To: MYSTARA-L@.WIZARDS.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well I am a persistent one, and I have found yet another website of = newsletters. This is the SJ Crystal Ball Newsletter, and for those of you = who are doing a pirate city campaign this one should fit the bill. Here is = the address.=20 PS. Jenny, I hope you find this site useful and thankyou so much for the = help with the Freeport module! JK WOLF http://jammers.s5.com/crystal01.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:51:09 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: James Mishler Subject: Slavery and Immortals Part 1 of 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here's my rundown of the various philosophies of the Immortals on slavery. This includes only the major Immortals. Once again, all IMC, but for the most part as Canonical as possible. Al-Kalim (L/LN) - Al-Kalim was, as a mortal, unsure about the rightness of slavery. He felt, beyond a doubt, that it was wrong to enslave True Believers, as they properly honor the Immortals and follow the Way of the Eternal Truth. He was less sure about non-believers, though. He felt, to an extent, that slavery was better than death; after all, as a slave the infidel might eventually come around and thus be freed and become a valuable member of society. Heretics and sorcerers, of course, were not given any such room to maneuver, and were to be slain outright. In the end in his wisdom, Al-Kalim decided to leave a slightly mixed message for his followers, that they might discover better truth that Al-Kalim had not yet discovered himself. The Way is still young, however, and has a long way to go. Alphaks (C/CE) - Alphaks feels that the conquered should serve, then die horribly. Anything goes with slavery. And his followers, when captured and enslaved. well, they were weak, and deserved what they got. Any cleric of Alphaks that is enslaved loses his clerical abilities until he frees himself. Alphatia (L/LN) - Alphatia lived her mortal life in Elder Alphatia, where things such as slaves were not necessary, as almost everyone had the ability to perform magic, and those very few that did not were taught to excel in other ways. Thus, she finds the practice of slavery distasteful, and believes that it is evil. However, she also believes in the superiority of the Alphatian way of society, and has not worked to eliminate it entirely; her followers are, instead, instructed to develop ways (usually magical) that will eliminate the "necessity" of having slaves in the empire. Her followers also struggle to better the lives of slaves, while at the same time ensuring the internal strength of the empire. Her clerics fight against any attempts to conquer new lands, and strongly stand against the enslavement of any new subject races. Asterius (N/N) - As the Immortal of commerce, Asterius tends to see things entirely in terms of trade and production. Thus, he perfectly understands the economics behind slavery, and while he does not approve, he tends to turn a blind eye to it. He does have a bit of an anarchists streak, though, which rises from time to time regarding slavery, as he himself had been enslaved for a time as a mortal in Blackmoor. Thus, his good followers will sometimes strike out at slavery (usually legally, and under the broad philosophy that a free man works harder than a slave), while evil followers might continue on as slave traders! Atruaghin (L/LN) - Like his surface world followers, Atruaghin abhors the concept of any of his people being enslaved, and does not believe that his own people should hold slaves. He is, however, generally ambivalent about anyone else being enslaved by others. He deplores what has happened in the Azcan Empire under the rule of the followers of Atzanteotl, and in that realm does fight against slavery, as part and parcel of everything he does to fight Atzanteotl. Atzanteotl (C/NE) - Atzanteotl is all for slavery. He revels in the misery it causes. He and his followers believe that the weak were born to serve the strong, and the strong are, of course, the followers of Atzanteotl. Like other evil Immortals that hold this belief, enslaved (though not simply captured) clerics will usually lose their clerical powers until they regain their freedom, as a sign of their patron's displeasure at their weakness. Calitha (N/N) - Calitha has no particular philosophy on slavery. She does not like to see her followers enslaved, and will do what she can to help, however, her followers do not crusade against (or generally practice) slavery. Diamond (L/LN) - Diamond does not stand for or against slavery, in general, as most races that can be enslaved generally have little to do with him. He despised the very concept of a dragon being enslaved or subdued, however, and, if the victim is deserving of help will try to provide some form of assistance. In the various Addakkian mortal kingdoms that he is worshipped in, the followers of Diamond feel that slavery is a part of the natural way of life, and do not object to it, as long as slaves are both treated according to the law and remember their place. Diulanna (N/NG) - Diulanna abhors the concept of slavery and has her followers fight it wherever it rears its ugly head. She feels that it is better to let your opponents die in the struggle for their freedom rather than fetter them in chains. Djaea (N/NG) - Djaea opposes slavery because it is (she believes) the work of evil and the entropic Immortals, not because of any deeper philosophy. She was a mortal in an age when slavery was common and expected, and thus has a somewhat blas� attitude toward the personal experiences of slaves. Her followers fight slavery on the grander scale; they generally do not fight to free individual slaves, instead they fight against the practice of slavery itself. Eiryndul (C/CN) - Eiryndul doesn't take well to the concept of slavery; he believes everyone should be free to do pretty much whatever they want to do. Besides, slavery means that too much time and effort is being taken in keeping things orderly, and that's just not the way to do things. Individually, followers of Eiryndul will fight against slavery or not based on their own personal whims and experiences. The more embarrassment and trouble they can bring to the slave owners while freeing the slaves is simply a bonus. Faunus (C/CN) - "Slavery? Bah! It just gets in the way of having fun! Bonds are made to be broken, so break them! What? You aren't strong enough? Hmmm. have a sip of this. :hiccup: Now, where did that redheaded wench go?" Frey and Freyja (L/LN) - unlike their co-religionists, Frey and Freyja despise slavery in all its forms, including the thrall-slavery practiced in the Northern Reaches. They and their followers fight against it (usually as guerillas) at every opportunity. The Great One (N/N) - The great One is unconcerned with the doings of the mortal races. He does not care whether they live in peace, kill each other, enslave one another, or eat each other, they are all beneath his notice. Halav (L/LN) - The Traldar were a slave-keeping race and Halav was a king of the Traldar at their glorious height. Thus, he sees nothing wrong with slavery, even other races enslaving Traldar. However, he does believe that slave have certain rights, and that slave owners have responsibilities toward their slaves. His followers continually struggle toward the betterment of the condition of slaves, though not necessarily toward the eradication of slavery. He abhors the nature of Alphatian slavery; his followers strike against Alphatian slavers at every chance. Hel (C/CN) - Slavery is just fine with Hel. She does not necessarily go out of her way to sponsor it, but she has no problem with it whatsoever. She has also been known to have her followers sponsor slave uprisings, though not with the welfare of the slaves in mind; she enjoys the chaos they cause, and, if at the right time, can assist her followers to gain further power or influence. continued... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:52:39 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: James Mishler Subject: Slavery and Immortals Part 2 of 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ilsundal (L/LG) - Ilsundal abhors slavery, and fought against it back when Blackmoor was young. His paladins and clerics vow to fight it wherever it may be, and to defend the freedom of people with their lives. In ordered and lawful societies, the followers of Ilsundal fight slavery through legal means; elsewhere, they take to martial means to free slaves. Ixion (N/N) - Ixion, never having been mortal (as far as he can recall), has worries little about slavery. He does not like to see his followers enslaved, unless they have failed him somehow. The few times he ever does speak out or have his followers act against slavery are usually at the behest of his mate, Valerias (q.v.). Ka (N/LN) - Ka does into really understand the concept of slavery and what it means to mortal races. Thus, when the subject comes up, he usually turns a blind eye to it, unless it involves his favored followers or strengthens the power of entropy. Kagyar (N/N) - Kagyar dislikes the concept of slavery in general and will fight it most ferociously if his followers are concerned. However, he and his followers generally go not get involved with the affairs of other races and religions when it comes to slavery. Karaash (N/LE) - Philosophically speaking, Karaash has no problem with slavery. He and his people practiced it when he was a mortal; his followers practice it today. Slavery frees his followers to pursue martial rather than simple subsistence ways. It is, to Karaash, a natural by-product of military conquest. However, he does not believe in its extensive practice, as such would weaken the martial spirit of the slave masters, as they become weak from indolence. He and his old sponsor Diulanna had a falling out over slavery centuries ago, which is why she is no longer an ally of his. Khoronus (N/N) - Khoronus believes that slavery was one of the factors that contributed to the eventual downfall of the original Blackmoor culture (he knows the Great Rain of Fire destroyed Blackmoor, but he feels the civilization fell long before the end). Thus, he has a genteel-dislike for slavery and the entire institution. He and his followers do not generally actively struggle against slavery, but they do try to mitigate its excesses and limit its growth. Korotiku (C/CN) - Korotiku abhors slavery; after all, freedom is required to generate new thoughts, and thought is what life and existence is all about. Thus, his followers usually (and violently) oppose slavery. They fight it on the individual and societal level, ranging from assassins that take out slave owners and traders to senators in Thyatis that fight against it on the floor of the senate. Koryis (L/LN) - Koryis dislikes slavery, and feels that it inhibits true prosperity and peace. Thus, he and his followers fight it - but they fight it over the long term, on a societal level. They are determined to change the status quo only through slow, deliberate negotiation and philosophical evolution. However, some followers (generally mystics and other martial-artist types) often take it upon themselves to hurry things along. Loki (C/CN) - Slavery is meant for those who haven't the wit to remain free; this means just about everyone but Loki. Followers may practice slavery or not, as they wish. However, this license is a double-edged sword, as those clerics of Loki that are enslaved lose their powers. They must not only free themselves only using their own wits, they must also perpetrate a grand prank on their former master before they will regain their clerical status! Masauwu (C/CE) - Slavery is the bread and butter of this Immortal con man. He is a patron of slave traders that gain their wares through guile and lies; he is the unofficial patron of the Black Ring and other slaver organizations. Like other entropic Immortals, clerics that are themselves enslaved lose their powers until they regain their freedom. Mealiden (L/NG) - Like his patron, Ilsundal, Mealiden despises slavery. However, unlike Ilsundal, he is less concerned with it when it deals with races other than elves, and thus he tends to have a somewhat flippant attitude about its practice by other races. This has changed somewhat in recent centuries, as he gains followers outside of his natal race, but thus far has only caused him to extend his philosophical blanket of freedom over his non-elven followers, not mortals in general. Noumena (N/LN) - Noumena was raised as a mortal king of a slave holding nation. He thus sees slavery as a natural thing. However, he fights against it wherever slavery is predominant to an "unnatural" degree, or where it has caused the wholesale corruption of society. Nyx (N/N) - Nyx is unconcerned with the lifestyles of the living. Her people are all slaves. slaves to the Night. Odin (L/LN) - Odin believes that slavery is a natural way of human kind. He also believes that it is a far more preferable result than the wholesale slaughter of enemies in battle. Thus, in societies that followed him, he instituted varying methods of slavery, most of them with the end goal of induction of the slave (or barring that, the slaves' progeny) into the society that took the slave. Unfortunately, he has seen this system corrupted again and again into a mode of debasement and inhumanity. He is no longer certain as to the system, but he figures he can keep trying to get the balance just right. He has plenty of time. Opal (N/N) - The Sun Dragon is not well disposed toward mortal races, especially humans. She feels that most of them should probably be slaves, and live a life of misery. However, she also has a soft spot for lone survivors of raids that are enslaved, and will at times do what little she can to help them gain revenge over their enslavers. Orcus (C/CE) - Orcus likes slaves. He believes that the best place for the conquered is in the slave pits, just before they are sacrificed to him. He does not, unlike most other entropic Immortals, take his follower's powers away when they are enslaved. To the contrary, he usually grants them a few extra spells, in order that they can cause more chaos and destruction in their attempts to escape. Ordana (N/N) - Ordana has a mixed history where slavery is concerned; after all, she created the elves to be the "friends and protectors" of the forest - whether they wanted to or not! Thus, she effectively created the elves as a slave race! However, she eventually realized that there was an innate wrongness of the situation, and freed the elves from their servitude. Since then she has had little to do with slavery, either for or against, as she is less concerned with what mortals do to each other than with what they do to the forest and its inhabitants. continued... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:54:20 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: James Mishler Subject: Slavery and Immortals Part 3 of 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Pearl (C/CN) - Pearl recently discovered the concept of slavery, and is all for it - the draconic enslavement of the other races, that is. She has only just started putting together a philosophy on the idea, so it might take her a couple of decades (or she might just start it tomorrow, you never know with her), and thus the civilized mortal races could well be in danger from draconic slavers very shortly! Petra (L/NG) - Petra is less blas� about slavery than Halav; they are always getting into heated discussions about the practice. Petra learned more about the nature of slavery than Halav has, mostly through her interactions with the day to day society of the Milenian Empire. Thus, she and her followers struggle to mitigate the wrongs of slavery while they also fight to eliminate it. Pflarr (N/N) - Pflarr was created as a slave, and never questioned his existence as a slave. Thus, slavery is natural to Pflarr. However, his experience with the Hutaaka and the Traldar has made him question the methods (though not the morality) of slavery. Today his followers generally do not care one way or the other, and do not get involved. Protius (N/N) - Protius neither condones nor condemns slavery, unless it is his followers that are being enslaved. In those cases, the seas roil and boil and people get hurt. Otherwise, he could care less with what the surface folk do to one another. Rad (L/LN) - Rad doesn't much care for slavery, however, being young (as far as Immortals go) he also doesn't really feel there is much that he can do about it. It really isn't his concern. He does, however, give his blessing to his followers that seek to fight it, provided they don't go causing too much trouble. Rafiel (N/N) - As a mortal Rafiel disliked the Thonian institution of slavery. Thus, Rafiel doesn't allow the practice of slavery among his followers. However, he also does not become involved with slavery practiced by others, unless, of course, they enslave his own people. He doesn't feel he has the time or the resources to take concentration away from the survival and well being of his followers to fight for any such cause. Rathanos (C/CN) - Rathanos is not opposed to slavery, especially with regard to the enslavement of females. He does not go out of his way to promulgate the idea, however, nor in general do his followers. However, most of the societies that follow him practice slavery in one form or another and consider it to be a natural part of society. Razud (N/N) - Razud is philosophically opposed to slavery, however, he also believes that it is up to the individual to free himself. Self reliance is the nature of the way of Razud, and it would be against the faith to take another's fate into one's hands. Basically, his philosophy is that if one is a slave, and does not do something to change that status, you get what you deserve. He and his followers disapprove of large-scale slave uprising, however, they also disapprove of wholesale enslavement of populations. Talitha (C/CE) - Talitha was once a slave while a mortal, and did not like the experience one bit. However, rather than learn from the experience and find community with other slaves upon regaining her freedom she immediately turned around and started buying and abusing her own slaves. Her faithful follower her example; many slave traders and raiders are her followers. Tarastia (L/LN) - Tarastia despises slavery. However, she is a realist, and has done little to try to change what she believes to be human nature. She has done what she can to alleviate the suffering of slaves, and ensures in her courts (where she can) that slaves have rights and that those rights are respected. Her followers will often buy slaves and will usually free them at the first opportunity. Many of her followers are former slaves that have been freed thusly. Her temples run several repatriation charities that help captured and then freed slaves return home. Terra (L/LN) - Slavery was and remains the way of life on the Elemental Planes, where Terra first lived as a mortal. Thus, she believes slavery to be a natural way of life. She dislikes cruel and vile treatment of slaves, however, seeing such as a path toward entropy. Therefore, she usually has her followers support laws and rights for slaves wherever possible. Followers of Terra will hold slaves and generally treat them well. Thanatos (C/CE) - Thanatos does not understand slavery. Why keep the conquered alive when it is so much more entertaining and enjoyable to kill them? His followers will usually "free" slaves in just that manner, and consider themselves to be doing their victims a favor. Thor (L/LN) - Thor believes that warriors bested in battle deserve to die in with honor battle. Otherwise, he supports the ancient tradition of thrall-taking while at the same time fighting against other slave-taking traditions, which he believes dehumanizes the victims. Thor and his followers see nothing wrong with this strange dichotomy in their philosophy. Valerias (C/CN) - Valerias believes that all living beings should be slaves. slaves to passion, that is. She really does not have any feelings one way or the other, except in cases where slavery interferes with a romance. Then she gets downright furious about the whole idea, calls upon Ixion to do something about it, and, when some other romance catches her fancy, completely forgets about it. Vanya (N/N) - Vanya actually frets about her stance on slavery. She herself fought against it during her whole mortal life, yet, somehow, she finds herself happily supporting the enslavement of whole populations when her own followers conquer them. At times she questions her own lack of discretion in this matter. She is coming more and more to the conclusion that slavery is an indelible part of mortal society; one that will always be there, should not necessarily be encouraged, but also should be regulated and, if possible, kept to a minimum. Note that, as the Patroness of War, she has often supported both sides in slave uprisings, in an attempt to let human nature and fate decide the outcome and the righteousness of slavery. Generally the slaves have lost. Zirchev (N/N) - Zirchev is unconcerned with the ways of civilization. He believes that slavery is but another sign that civilization is corrupt. His human followers, generally loners, hermits, and barbarians have little desire or need to hold slaves. Zirchev and his followers will fight against slavers only when they threaten their own way of life, or somehow threaten the balance of the forests. Fin ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 22:57:31 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Slavery in the Known World, Part 2 In-Reply-To: <002f01c113cc$7d264240$2ada67d1@jmishler> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > -----Original Message----- > From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] On > Behalf Of James Mishler > > For what it's worth, indeed, during the Years of Unrest (861 to 893 IMC) > many rebels (and their families, mind you) from the various colonies and > territories would have been enslaved. However, those Ispans (and others) > that had cut a deal with the emperor to remain in peace (or move on > elsewhere) would not have been. So, many modern slaves could well trace > their roots to an ancestor from one of the rebellions. > Thank you James, good story too! I adopted your history right into my campaign as cannon material. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 00:18:13 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: Alphatia: Rulers, Pre-WOTI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > If I recall correctly, the population of Alphatia in terms of citizens (i.e. > spell-casters) is 400,000 or so. A figure I consider low for such a sizable > Empire. If that is the figure used, then I would point out that one in 400 > mages is 36th level! I would guess that the ratio should be more like 1 in > 10,000; this would give a population of 10,000,000 citizens (a much more > reasonable figure for a place of this size). If we keep the population the > same, then the number of 36th level wizards becomes "merely" 40. [snip pop figures] > New Total for Empire: 6,617,000 > New Total for 36th level wizards: 661 > Pretty impressive! Yes, but this is calculated based on 1 L36 MU per 10,000 people, not spell-casters. If you assume 20% spell-casters in Alphatia, it would come out to 1 in 2000 MUs. I agree with your logic though, and increasing the overall population is not unreasonable. In fact, IMC, the combined Alphatian pop. (including territories) is around 23 million, which still only gives a pop. density of 6 people per sq. mile (but the rest of the world has also been scaled up accordingly). This results in 1 L36 MU per 23,000 people, or 1 per 4600 MUs. I think 1 in 10,000 MUs is more plausible, but my increases were already quite large. Dan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 01:46:32 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Alphatia: Rulers, Pre-WOTI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Actually, I am assuming that non-citizens would not be included in any census taken by the Empire of Alphatia. I doubt the population of slaves is very high, it takes so much effort to house them, feed them, guard them; and who are you going to get to watch them? More slaves? Surely no citizen would willingly deign to such work. It might soil their clothing... It actually requires a very organized social/governmental structure to operate slaves. They are considered a commodity. I suspect that the Alphatians view them mostly as some kind of pet or personal plaything. I just don't see such a magic-heavy society relying much on slaves for anything other than amusement. Add in their decadence and their intrinsic seeming unwillingness to compromise in order to achieve a common goal... I would guess that non-spell-casters form a distinct minority. Why bother when you can just as easily conjure a magical servant who will not argue, try to escape, to murder you in their sleep, or need to be fed/housed/taken care of... ? Just my thinking, George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Eustace" To: Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 11:18 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Alphatia: Rulers, Pre-WOTI > > If I recall correctly, the population of Alphatia in terms of citizens > (i.e. > > spell-casters) is 400,000 or so. A figure I consider low for such a > sizable > > Empire. If that is the figure used, then I would point out that one in 400 > > mages is 36th level! I would guess that the ratio should be more like 1 in > > 10,000; this would give a population of 10,000,000 citizens (a much more > > reasonable figure for a place of this size). If we keep the population the > > same, then the number of 36th level wizards becomes "merely" 40. > [snip pop figures] > > New Total for Empire: 6,617,000 > > New Total for 36th level wizards: 661 > > Pretty impressive! > > Yes, but this is calculated based on 1 L36 MU per 10,000 people, not > spell-casters. If you assume 20% spell-casters in Alphatia, it would come > out to 1 in 2000 MUs. I agree with your logic though, and increasing the > overall population is not unreasonable. In fact, IMC, the combined > Alphatian pop. (including territories) is around 23 million, which still > only gives a pop. density of 6 people per sq. mile (but the rest of the > world has also been scaled up accordingly). This results in 1 L36 MU per > 23,000 people, or 1 per 4600 MUs. I think 1 in 10,000 MUs is more > plausible, but my increases were already quite large. > > Dan > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 00:22:45 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Alphatia: Rulers, Pre-WOTI In-Reply-To: <00bc01c113f7$a8c83ef0$e0511f42@D56DN901> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > This results in 1 L36 MU per > 23,000 people, or 1 per 4600 MUs. I think 1 in > 10,000 MUs is more > plausible, but my increases were already quite > large. Well there would probally be a disproportionate number of 36th level MU's given an excessive life span, in comparison to "normals" and those not particually gifted. And while there are many hazards in magical research, you don't reach 36th level without some skill. Therefore the fatality rate would be fairly small. What this actually equates to I don't know, but I thought I'd make the point. I tried working it out a while back. Never finished. Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 07:23:22 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Alphatia: Rulers, Pre-WOTI In-Reply-To: <04aa01c1140c$60579480$8b39abd0@tds.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > -----Original Message----- > From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] On > Behalf Of George Hrabovsky > > Actually, I am assuming that non-citizens would not be included in any > census taken by the Empire of Alphatia. I doubt the population of slaves > is > very high, it takes so much effort to house them, feed them, guard them; > and > who are you going to get to watch them? More slaves? Surely no citizen > would > willingly deign to such work. It might soil their clothing... > Slaves are an expensive commodity, and a sign of wealth. The government will want to know the slave population, to add a head tax (maybe worth half a head). > It actually requires a very organized social/governmental structure to > operate slaves. They are considered a commodity. > > I suspect that the Alphatians view them mostly as some kind of pet or > personal plaything. > > I just don't see such a magic-heavy society relying much on slaves for > anything other than amusement. Add in their decadence and their intrinsic > seeming unwillingness to compromise in order to achieve a common goal... > Alphers would not want to bother with using their spells for such menial tasks as plow the field, or clean the tower, don't get me wrong; they would have access to these spells, but it is much more entertaining to watch somebody else do it. > I would guess that non-spell-casters form a distinct minority. Why bother > when you can just as easily conjure a magical servant who will not argue, > try to escape, to murder you in their sleep, or need to be > fed/housed/taken > care of... ? > True, but you will still need other servants that know your mannerisms (martini, shaken, not stirred), plus as a sign of wealth and power. If I had a floating yacht with hundreds of magical gizmos to run the ship, then all I need is a bunch of pleasure slaves and servants to prove my true power/ego/hedonism (plus my spells tend to waver a little when I am concentrating on all the pretty colors 8P~| ) > Just my thinking, > Ditto. Chris > George > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dan Eustace" > To: > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 11:18 PM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Alphatia: Rulers, Pre-WOTI > > > > > If I recall correctly, the population of Alphatia in terms of citizens > > (i.e. > > > spell-casters) is 400,000 or so. A figure I consider low for such a > > sizable > > > Empire. If that is the figure used, then I would point out that one in > 400 > > > mages is 36th level! I would guess that the ratio should be more like > 1 > in > > > 10,000; this would give a population of 10,000,000 citizens (a much > more > > > reasonable figure for a place of this size). If we keep the population > the > > > same, then the number of 36th level wizards becomes "merely" 40. > > [snip pop figures] > > > New Total for Empire: 6,617,000 > > > New Total for 36th level wizards: 661 > > > Pretty impressive! > > > > Yes, but this is calculated based on 1 L36 MU per 10,000 people, not > > spell-casters. If you assume 20% spell-casters in Alphatia, it would > come > > out to 1 in 2000 MUs. I agree with your logic though, and increasing > the > > overall population is not unreasonable. In fact, IMC, the combined > > Alphatian pop. (including territories) is around 23 million, which still > > only gives a pop. density of 6 people per sq. mile (but the rest of the > > world has also been scaled up accordingly). This results in 1 L36 MU > per > > 23,000 people, or 1 per 4600 MUs. I think 1 in 10,000 MUs is more > > plausible, but my increases were already quite large. > > > > Dan > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:46:27 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Caroletti Subject: Re: Alphatia: Rulers, Pre-WOTI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Slaves are an expensive commodity, and a sign of wealth. The government > will want to know the slave population, to add a head tax (maybe worth > half a head). I doubt that a chaotic structure like that of the Alphatian Empire would mind too much if a spellcaster keeps a dozen slaves and pays taxes only for four of them. ISS ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:47:24 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Alphatia: Rulers, Pre-WOTI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Caroletti [mailto:scarole@TIN.IT] > > I doubt that a chaotic structure like that of the Alphatian > Empire would > mind > too much if a spellcaster keeps a dozen slaves and pays taxes > only for four > of > them. > That is because those lazy 12 slaves only work like 4 :p Why, I remember back in the old days, my pappy kept 300 slaves. We even kept 15 just to work on the spiders to keep giving us fresh silk to dry our milk baths with. We had another 50 around the house to keep gran-ma walking on rose petals, and to get her dressed in the morning (it took another 10 or so to get her undressed). We kept 6 slaves in the kitchen to keep unca Louie fed (said his experiments always made him hungry, never saw just what he was experimenting with). My pa kept 5 around all the time to keep writing his notes. Ma kept 10 around her to massage her neck, wipe her sweat, fan her, carry her out around the moat, and to spend quite time with. Lil sis & I used to sit up on top of the ballista tower and cast water bubbles down at the others plowing the fields, those were fun days... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:18:19 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Alphatia: Rulers, Pre-WOTI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Any one else ever have this happen? The party I was leading had to visit the Imperial Palace. One of the members in the group was related to the royal family in Thothia. Most of the members never got along and always bickered about what to do or even say. In front of the gates, a small argument broke out between characters, when one said something about the Thothian's Grandma (Aketheti). Immediately one of the guards steps up and asks for permission to beat the SOB up to a pulp. The Thothian then smacks the little guy flat out (helps being a monk), and says, "Nay, we will take care of this". Any ways, this led to allot of 'role-playing' to keep the mundaners and non-royalty inline while inside the palace (allot of slapping and explaining that they will execute the others once they get back to Thothia). If anyone remembers any previous posts of mine, the Thothian was one of the two that teleported into the middle of the Sundesvall Whirlpool, post Wrath. Sorry this little bit makes no sense to the current line, but it did have Alphatian Royalty from the Pre-WOTI. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:28:22 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: kevin wyton Subject: The Fall of Alfheim Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Greetings all My DM (who has no internet at home) asked me to pose a handful of questions to everyone here. Any opinions or directions to info(I'll print any articles out for her) would be most helpful. 1. Has anyone run their timeline during the Alfheim/Shadowelf war? How did they approach it? IMC, the Alfheimers have already lost the war, so I'm mostly interested in the aftermath. 2. I know the refugees went north to Wendar and south to Karameikos, but in what numbers? How did the Alfheim clans split up? Where did they receive the most welcome or support? How did the host countries react to the outpouring of new elves into their communities? Where were new enclaves formed? How did the government structures change? What happened to the key NPC's from the Elves of Alfheim gazeteer? 3. How did the other countries (mostly Darokin) react to the invasion? Did Alfheim get any outside military assistance? How do the neighbouring countries view the new Shadowelves? (I know about the battle with the Dwarves, etc. over Oekenmar, that's a different kettle of fish I'll deal with later) 4. How organized is the Alfheim Liberation Army?(I think that's the name of the group) Who's their leader? Where are they located? What are their plans for reclaiming Alfheim? Hmm, one might think she was planning something devious for my elven bladesinger. Kevin aka Darien Moonedge, Bladesinger _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:48:30 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: The Fall of Alfheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit kevin wyton wrote: > Greetings all > > My DM (who has no internet at home) asked me to pose a handful of questions > to everyone here. Any opinions or directions to info(I'll print any > articles > out for her) would be most helpful. You'll find here most of the info already around: http://dnd.starflung.com/aengmor.html I'd recommend especially Fabrizio Paoli's timeline and Andre Martins' essays. I think you'll find answers to most of the questions you posed there. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 11:15:43 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: The Fall of Alfheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: kevin wyton [mailto:caliir@HOTMAIL.COM] > > 1. Has anyone run their timeline during the Alfheim/Shadowelf > war? How did > they approach it? IMC, the Alfheimers have already lost the > war, so I'm > mostly interested in the aftermath. > I have ran this scenario several times. I don't know what the cannon material is, as far as numbers, who's who, et. Every time I played this, the PC's were at a level high enough to determine the elves' new migration. Karameikos is the most receptive of the refugees. Especially if several pc's will help the King get rid of a few pesky goblins. The journey will be long and arduous. It is winter time, and most countries (especially Darokin) are in the midst of rebuilding or preparing for war, so no help is available; if any elves want to move, they have to do it all on their own. Karameikos also can't take the total of the Alfheim population, and the journey through the mountains will be full of blizzards, snow blocks, avalanches, opportunistic humanoids, et. The Five Shires would be interested in taking on some refugees, but there are no forests, mostly fields. The trip to Wendar will be even more terrifying. Plague within Ethengar & Heldann territories, colder/harsher weather, and way more humanoids. Glantri will be in no condition to take on so many elves, and they will not trust the elves enough for them to pass through. Going west through Darokin and then North towards the Adri Varma plateau would be suicidal. Hule's retreated armies are entrenched in Sind. (Although I had one player try to take the Dark Wood as a new elven homeland, he failed; but Hule's army was so severely weakened that most of the Savage Coast pushed Hule's borders much further north.) Some elves may even try to settle the unknown area around Autrughin's Plateau, then get a big surprise to find other civilizations hiding in the woods. If they resort to settle the Malphegi Swamp, they will find many monsters that have grown since their last battles at the Sump and the Weir. In my last elven campaign, one clan (a generic clan, from a player) helped the dwarves in their civil war, then as a gift they were allowed to settle lands near Vestland's border (Making friends with Vestland for quelling a little Kobold problem, only to have the clan of elves decimated as Thar retreated from his attempted invasion on Dengar). In another campaign, the elves used the Rainbow path to escape back to the Sylvan Realm (players had previously ran in that adventure, CM7), the elves then rebuilt the Sylvan Realm and invited the clans from the Eastern coast to join them (and get away from all this human silliness of war). At any rate, the elves migration is full of hardship, pain, and sorrow. The help they receive depends on player actions, and not much is available. IMC, these survivors retreat to their new woods (in Wendar, Karameikos, Thyatis), and become xenophobic in the future; not trusting much of any human kingdoms. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 15:01:41 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Spice Road PBeM Comments: cc: spiceroad@bellsouth.net, spicedm@bellsouth.net, inour12@bellsouth.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" OK, I am ready to start with my PBeM in full swing (except tonight, its my physical appearance night for my regular campaign). The next several days I will be making major upgrades to the website, found at http://personal.mia.bellsouth.net/mia/i/n/inour12/spice/Home.htm (sorry its so long, but its free!) To keep my Listserv/newszine mail separate, I will be using new addresses for the game, spiceroad@bellsouth.net (for all character talk, actions); and spicedm@bellsouth.net (for all questions, out of character actions). Please come check out the site and feel free to give any questions or comments, or to join in! Spice Road is a play by email game set in Mystara, dealing with merchants' buying and selling. Unlike most PBeM's you can play whenever you have time, and are not limited on actions, except your own imagination. Sorry for the shameless plug, but the more players, the less I actually have to do. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 17:07:38 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: Alphatia: Rulers, Pre-WOTI On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 07:23:22 -0400, Christopher Cherrington wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] On >> Behalf Of George Hrabovsky >> >> Actually, I am assuming that non-citizens would not be included in any >> census taken by the Empire of Alphatia. I doubt the population of >slaves >> is >> very high, it takes so much effort to house them, feed them, guard >them; >> and >> who are you going to get to watch them? More slaves? Surely no citizen >> would >> willingly deign to such work. It might soil their clothing... >> >Slaves are an expensive commodity, and a sign of wealth. The government >will want to know the slave population, to add a head tax (maybe worth >half a head). > In Alphatia I doubt this since most rules seem to exist to favor the spellcasters, including taxation and so. There is a little, but taxes are very low in Alphatia (pre-WOTI, I mean). Still, I think there is a sizable slave population (see more explanation below) >> It actually requires a very organized social/governmental structure to >> operate slaves. They are considered a commodity. >> >> I suspect that the Alphatians view them mostly as some kind of pet or >> personal plaything. >> >> I just don't see such a magic-heavy society relying much on slaves for >> anything other than amusement. Add in their decadence and their >intrinsic >> seeming unwillingness to compromise in order to achieve a common >goal... >> >Alphers would not want to bother with using their spells for such menial >tasks as plow the field, or clean the tower, don't get me wrong; they >would have access to these spells, but it is much more entertaining to >watch somebody else do it. > Yes, and besides, I think you may be forgetting that only 20% of Alphatians born in the AC 1000 period can become wizards, and according to DotE, few become clerics even though that would make them aristocrats... That means the majority of the population are commoners and slaves. >> I would guess that non-spell-casters form a distinct minority. Why >bother >> when you can just as easily conjure a magical servant who will not >argue, >> try to escape, to murder you in their sleep, or need to be >> fed/housed/taken >> care of... ? >> > >True, but you will still need other servants that know your mannerisms >(martini, shaken, not stirred), plus as a sign of wealth and power. If >I had a floating yacht with hundreds of magical gizmos to run the ship, >then all I need is a bunch of pleasure slaves and servants to prove my >true power/ego/hedonism (plus my spells tend to waver a little when I am >concentrating on all the pretty colors 8P~| ) > Besides, the Alphatians turned the 'barbarians' they conquered into slaves because they lacked people in their armies and needed people to grow crops in the field - things they needed (since so few, only 50% of the newborn, could learn magic on Mystara), yet couldn't be bothered to do themselves! (snip rest) - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 19:27:30 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: The Fall of Alfheim On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:28:22 +0000, kevin wyton wrote: >Greetings all > >My DM (who has no internet at home) asked me to pose a handful of questions >to everyone here. Any opinions or directions to info(I'll print any articles >out for her) would be most helpful. > Okay. >1. Has anyone run their timeline during the Alfheim/Shadowelf war? How did >they approach it? IMC, the Alfheimers have already lost the war, so I'm >mostly interested in the aftermath. > My group is currently playing through WOTI, and we've just reached spring/summer of 1008, so the invasion has been over for some months now. Two PCs were elves from Alfheim (one has left the group now) and another was a ranger strongly befriended with a few Alfheim elves, so they were quite involved in this. I used the scenario by Fabrizio Paoli and Herve Musseau , which Giampaolo Agosta already mentioned... As we've discussed before on this list, a comment by Bruce Heard suggests that the split of the clans is different than the one suggested by Fabriozio Paoli and Herve Musseau. IIRC, Heard suggests, for instance, that the Erendyl clan goes south... I suspect this was changed deliberately since subsequent canon references (mainly the PWAs) state very clearly that Doriath is in Wender, which would be very strange if his own clan was in Karameikos... In this scenario, the elves, having witnessed the utter corruption of their forest before the shadow elves attack, have already planned their emigration from Alfheim. Since one of the PCs in my group is a diplomat from the DDC, she became involved when Darokin was informed of this, while the others were involved as outlined above. One PC actually decided to enter Alfheim to look for survivors once the shadow elves made their move - she ended up hiding in Alfheim and then fighting her way out alongside several important elves such as Beasthunter and Mealidil, then suggested they could temporarily plant their Trees of Life in forests south of Nemiston in Darokin in an area where the PCs have claimed their own castle (from a lich who lived there for a long time), though she wasn't told exactly where they planted the Trees. My group was actually split up as half escorted one group north toward Wendar, only the elves were so slow, they decided to track ahead and found the Broken Lands strangely quiet.... (because Thar is calling goblinoids to the Great Crater to attack Glantri and, to a lesser degree, Darokin). They had some adventures and scouted into Ethengar, but by the time they returned, the elves were still only reaching Corunglain, so they went adventuring elsewhere until the elves got further and something else happens with those elves (by which time it will be too late to react, but I won't tell the players that, of course ;) ) The other group escorted elves along the road between Darokin City and Selenica for weeks, frequently fighting off ambushes by shadow elves. During all this, they also had to deal with what seemed to be a spread south of the rot of curse that had corrupted the trees in the Canolbarth forest. The ambush thing went on for some time until the last of the elves reached Selenica and then turned south where, presumably, the danger of ambush was much lower. Of course, once they passed into the passes in the Black Peak mountains that connect Darokin and Karameikos, they were trapped by a harsh winter. IMC, I took the opportunity to run an adventure here where dragons and giants (frost giants from the Altan Tepes riding red dragons!) attacked the elves as they were trapped by winter! This was essentially an adventure called "Preemptive Strike" from Dungeon no.74. For those who know it, the fire giants in the adventure were replaced with frost giants, the volcano Mount Bellows replaced with a cold mountain in the Altan Tepes mountains, the firenewts with ogres, the giant striders were dropped completely, and the rothe were replaced by yaks. The elven NPC who helps the PCs find flying mounts to the mountain and guides them was turned into the long lost brother of one of the PCs (who wasn't in this adventure, much to the player's regret) who had served the Retebius Air Fleet in Thyatis for a while but gone AWOL when he heard his people were in trouble (he returned to fight the Alphatians in the end, though)! The griffons he gives the PCs were replaced by hippogriffs. And the helpful "greenish" copper dragon was turned into a true green dragon (because there are supposedly no copper dragons on Mystara, yet green dragons may be good-aligned here, and so this was one of the few). The leader of the dragons and giants was the red dragon Sulfuria (toned down slightly IMC), a dragon so "young" she had only just begun to set up her own dragon "kingdom" by killing the leaders of the frost giants and then making them her servants (of sorts). The PCs ended up killing her, which scattered the remaining red dragons to the winds and allowed the frost giants to restore their usual "order". Btw, during this adventure, the PCs stopped by to find Castellan Keep, the keep in the Altan Tepes mountains from B2: Keep on the Borderlands (that is, it is in or near the Altan Tepes mountains according to the version of B2 in B1-9: In Search of Adventure) only to find much of the keep in ruins after dragons and giants attacked it. With the red dragon leader dead, the threat was ended and the elves could enter Karameikos after the ice thawed. As you may or may not have read in some mails I wrote on the goblins in the Dymrak Forest, I plan to have another adventure involving the elves who went south to Karameikos as they fight the goblins to claim Dymrak Forest from them. >2. I know the refugees went north to Wendar and south to Karameikos, but in >what numbers? Not sure... Not sure how many there were to begin with, but presumably about half went each way, probably a bit more went to Wendar since more clans (four) went there, than went south (three). > How did the Alfheim clans split up? According to "The Shadow Elves' Invasion of Alfheim" by Fabrizio Paoli and Herve Musseau, the clans went north and south as follows: North to Wendar: Clans Erendyl (King Doriath's clan), Mealidil, Grunalf, and Long Runner. South to Karameikos: Clans Chossum, Red Arrow, and Feadiel. Bruce Heard mentioned something a bit different, IIRC, but the latter is actually available at the Mystaran Almanac site ( , though the link doesn't work), so if you go by the subsequent 'Net' Almanacs, you can consider that to be accurate and as close to canon as we can get. > Where did they receive the >most welcome or support? Probably in Karameikos since the elves going north to Wendar caught the plague ravaging Ethengar, Heldann, Vestland, Soderfjord, and Ylaruam at the time and then brought it with them into Wendar, which didn't exactly make them popular there. Karameikos wasn't overly hospitable either, though. King Stefan did grant the Alfheim elves their own lands, only he gaves them lands in the Dymrak Forest which, at the time, were crawling with goblins, so that the elves would have to fight for their new lands, possibly twice since it was also close to the border to Thyatis, and so they would be in the way of possible future retaliation from Thyatis over Stefan's declaration of independence. These lands were also close to lands of the other elves of Karameikos, the Callarii and (especially) the Vyalia, which no doubt caused some strained relationships between all these elves at first... > How did the host countries react to the outpouring >of new elves into their communities? Where were new enclaves formed? In Karameikos, yes. I don't think so in Wendar. > How did >the government structures change? None did, IIRC. There were simply more people in the lands the elves went to. > What happened to the key NPC's from the >Elves of Alfheim gazeteer? > Most of them are still around, I think, though they've most likely gone to Karameikos or Wendar depending on which clans they belong to. >3. How did the other countries (mostly Darokin) react to the invasion? Did >Alfheim get any outside military assistance? How do the neighbouring >countries view the new Shadowelves? (I know about the battle with the >Dwarves, etc. over Oekenmar, that's a different kettle of fish I'll deal >with later) > Well, Rockhome had no initial reaction since the dwarves were all gone during that period of the war. Darokin's response was a very diplomatic one - on one hand, they supported the Alfheim elves, as they were their long-time allies, yet on the other hand they didn't do so openly because these "old allies" were leaving and new people hostile to them were settling the Canolbarth forest, and once the Alfheim elves were gone, Darokin would have to live alongside these shadow elves (and they tried sending ambassadors to Aengmor almost immediately, though these weren't received well, at least not at first)! So, IMC Darokin speeded the Alfheim elves on their way, helped them with food and so, but didn't send forces to protect them or aid them in any official way, though they most likely did so unofficially by helping with things "under the table" and "allowing" adventurers and other folk to "decide for themselves" whether they would "help" the Alfheim elves. Most of the other nations were too involved in war to respond much. Most probably feared the shadow elves a lot, but, like Darokin, you don't make hostile moves against new and popentially hostile players when you're already in a war (as Darokin/Five Shires and Glantri was with Thar's hordes and Ethengar was with Heldann) or recovering from a war (as Darokin was). So most responded by not responding, I think. That says a lot too, of course! >4. How organized is the Alfheim Liberation Army?(I think that's the name of >the group) The Alfheim Avengers? > Who's their leader? I'm not sure we were ever told. They seem to be a group of rather "young" elves (though young elves are scarcely young at all) with some rather strange ideas or else just filled with hate and revenge. In the later MAs they've turned to terrorism against other nations (such as Karameikos and Darokin, IIRC), because "none shall be safe as long as we don't have our own nation". Similar to how some terrorist organizations or self- proclaimed "freedom fighters" go about their causes today, I think. > Where are they located? The first mention of them seems to be in PWA2 (AC 1011) on p.234. It states simply that "young elves in the new elven dominion of Achelos begin calling themselves the Alfheim Avengers", so that would make their origin the Estate of Achelos in Karameikos a few years after the war. >What are their plans >for reclaiming Alfheim? > At first they don't do much but talk. In the later 'Net Almanacs', they turn to terrorism, hoping other nations will so be forced to help them. >Hmm, one might think she was planning something devious for my elven >bladesinger. > Hmmm, maybe I shouldn't have told you all this then... Oh well, you can never be sure your DM goes by those suggestions anyway... - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 00:53:28 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: The Fall of Alfheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The stuff from your campaign seems pretty cool, Stalker. Usually, individual campaign descriptions don't get much billing on this list, but I think it is some of the most interesting stuff to be shared. Perhaps it will give me some ideas for MC which is also in the midst of the Alfheim War. I also liked that timeline from Ville (IIRC) that essentially detailed most of his campaign. Personally I would be interested in seeing more of this on the MML. I think it is fun to swap stories and such. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 09:26:55 CEST Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Giulio Caroletti Subject: Empire of Thyatis [TCR] Site Updated Comments: To: jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, this is a short message to tell you that the Empire of Thyatis Web Page, set in AC 1016, has been updated. New uploads include: ATLAS SEECTION *Protectorate of Borydos *Protectorate of Carytion *County of Hattias *Duchy of Kantrium *Duchy of Kerendas These are James' files from last Almanac, "back-dated" to AC1016, before the start of the Crown War. I know that there are things that are still not perfect, but we hope to cover that soon... Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 10:51:03 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Spice Road PBeM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Some of the major updates will include conversions for 3E game mechanics, major NPC's (using 3E rules), 3E Merchant Classes, a posting board for players to post messages for other players (adds on warehouses for rent, items to sell, characters for hire, et.) Hope to see ya'll there! > > OK, I am ready to start with my PBeM in full swing (except > tonight, its my physical appearance night for my regular > campaign). The next several days I will be making major > upgrades to the website, found at > http://personal.mia.bellsouth.net/mia/i/n/inour12/spice/Home.h > tm (sorry its so long, but its free!) > To keep my Listserv/newszine mail separate, I will be using > new addresses for the game, spiceroad@bellsouth.net (for all > character talk, actions); and spicedm@bellsouth.net (for all > questions, out of character actions). Please come check out > the site and feel free to give any questions or comments, or > to join in! Spice Road is a play by email game set in > Mystara, dealing with merchants' buying and selling. Unlike > most PBeM's you can play whenever you have time, and are not > limited on actions, except your own imagination. Sorry for > the shameless plug, but the more players, the less I actually > have to do. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 07:59:03 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: converging of two- help please! Comments: To: MYSTARA-L@.WIZARDS.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I want to converge two ideas, but not sure how to do this, suggestions = would be aprreciated. 1) Alfhiem Elve refugees are given the Dymark forest to resettle after = Alfheim falls. 2) In a way to make political amends, (before being renounced) Thyatis = Emperor gives the Vyallia elves the Dymark forest as their own country. Ok so I am assuming here: a)Thyatis makes the gesture to recognize the boundaries of Vyallia b)Alfheim is in the midst of the war c) Stefan announces Karameilkos as an independent state as Thyatis squares = off against Alphatia. d)Stefan grants the Alfheim Elves refuge in the Alfhiem forest.=20 So how can I fit the two of these together? a) I could say Stefan is a bit peeved and the independence granted and = land given to the Vyallia Elves and ignore such a status, but would he? b)Stefan refuses to recognize the state and tells the Alfheim Elves to "go = ahead and move on in" this would cause quite a conflict, as the Vyallia = Elves are very reclusive, and the Alfheim elves would probably be short = tempered at such a rebuff.=20 Are the Vyallia elves that soverignty minded? I am not sure of King Stefan. What would his attitude be? Would he roll = over the new status of Vyallia, or ignore it altogether? The Gazetteer says he is a fair minded ruler but what would happen in this = case, I'm not sure. Help me please! JK Wolf =20 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:06:06 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: converging of two- help please! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Kelly [mailto:joe_kelly@DAVIS.CA] > > So how can I fit the two of these together? > a) I could say Stefan is a bit peeved and the independence > granted and land given to the Vyallia Elves and ignore such a > status, but would he? He would be upset, but he was a long time friend to Thincol. Thincol could be making this action as a statement on 'How dare you stab me in the back after all these years! Take that!' > > b)Stefan refuses to recognize the state and tells the Alfheim > Elves to "go ahead and move on in" this would cause quite a > conflict, as the Vyallia Elves are very reclusive, and the > Alfheim elves would probably be short tempered at such a rebuff. The Alfheim elves might not even want to come in, if they know it would strain relations with another elven nation. Another possibility would be for Alheimers to negotiate a secret treaty to take lands west of the river, then claim alliance to Vyallia (Independent minded elves would love to clean out goblins for themselves, not for a human lord). > > Are the Vyallia elves that sovereignty minded? > I am not sure of King Stefan. What would his attitude be? > Would he roll over the new status of Vyallia, or ignore it altogether? > The Gazetteer says he is a fair minded ruler but what would > happen in this case, I'm not sure. Help me please! Vyallia elves are not sovereign minded, they have a great degree of autonominous rule (in both countries). They are reclusive though, that me be a good reason for them to want sovereignty (possibly too many imperial demands, or too much encroachment of humans). King Stefan would not like it at all, but may be powerless to do anything. If he openly defies the Thyatian Edict, he may be in for a retaliation on the premises that Thincol may forgive him for Stefan's declaration as a King, but would not accept any more insults. King Stefan would need to do allot of political moves to keep the populace moral in check. Political fixes might include declaring the woods were always the goblins, and never really part of the Kingdom. On the other hand, he may enjoy a buffer state between him and Thyatis, possibly even having diplomats plotting for the last several years for Vyallia to become sovereign, in the promise of cleaning up the goblins of the Dymrak for them to claim. On this premises, Stefan may need to produce some damage control to allow the Vyallia to claim everything east of the river, and allow a more non-reclusive elven clan(s) to populate within his territory. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 16:11:43 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: kevin wyton Subject: The Fall of Alfheim Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Greetings all Wow, what a wealth of info! Thanks to Angelo,Stalker,Christopher, and Giampolo for the ideas, opinions, and of course directions. We play tonight so I'll be giving her the info right away. She started the foreshadowing last session with my PC (Darien) having an extremely vivid dream of several young elves in a secret meeting. This was accompanied by an overwhelming sense of foreboding and the sense that if they were not intercepted that they would all be killed. This was followed by a view of a secluded glade in the now damaged area of Alfheim. A beautiful shadowelf female laments the destruction of the forest. My DM confirmed my suspicions that the first group are Alfheim Avengers and that the second is the Shadowelf Princess (Dm gave me her name but it escapes me right now). My companions and I are kneedeep in avenging the murder of another PC's mother by a high level goblin assassin (who was trained by the Darokin Diplomatic Corp).We are also well into the Night Below adventure. I love all the plots,sigh Ah well adventure awaits thanks Kev _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:08:41 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Slavery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <<> -----Original Message----- > From: Alex Benson [mailto:Alex295@AOL.COM] > > IMO most of the problems in Thys Slave System are products of > its design by > TSR. These details were not thought out...and truthfully i > doubt they were > expected to be pondered by the fanbase. > I believe this is the biggest problem that I have for Thyatis. DotE gave a lot of information, and skipped allot of detail. For two Empires, as enormous as they are, they could have published a Gazetteer for each kingdom. I know they actually couldn't, seeing they never completed Wendar, and Hule. But that just leaves room for good DM's to fill in all the blanks. >> I agree with the absense of detail in DotE and a lack of all the Gazs. Likewise I am a bit glad that the entire Mystaran Setting was not detailled. I don't game anymore, so campaign developement is my main interest in Mystara. It would have been nice if DotE had been a bit more thorough, or Wrath been a bit better thought out, but what's done is done....or not done....if you know what i mean. Anyway....it makes for good gripes. Heck, half the threads discussed on the MML stem from these discrepancies and shortcomings. Anyway...DotE is limited to certain slave based details. However, I think thta it sets the basic tone for slavery in Thyatiis (and Alphatia). This underlying tone is: slaves factor heavily in Thy industry, are numerous, and are dirt cheap. Toss in the possibility of buying a slave's freedom and decent treatment and you have Thy Slavery in a nutshell. In short, being a slave sux. <> Revamping and detailing the Thy Slave System would be a boon. I would even suggest a similar act be performed with Alphatia. However, i would stress that the two empires' slave systems be done seperately so as not to come into competition or be compared with each other. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:08:47 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Zzonga MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 7/23/2001 9:28:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 deustace@MEDIAONE.NET writes: <<> IMO zzonga would find a more receptive audiance among the nonspellcastin= g > majority, especially those mundaners that lack the ability to be anything > more than mere servants. I would imagine that the slums would be ripe with > zzonga dens, much like the real world ghettos with their crack and heroine= . > Most addicts being those wishing to escape life. > In the case of the GC, think of all of the rock stars, movie stars, and other wealthy celebrities who have too much time on their hands with nothing better to do, and you have your rational for the GC aristos to be steeped in zzonga.=A0 It would not be cheap and thus would not be accessible to the poorest mundaners.=A0 One thing which made crack so rampant in the inner cities was the cheap price, and highly addictive effects which led to high demand.=A0 The slums of Alphatia would have cheap imitations or diluted zzon= ga mixed with hard booze or some other kind of mixture.=A0 I agree that the addictive effects of zzonga could be beefed up a bit to make it really nasty.=A0 "All it takes is one sip, and you're hooked for life...">> Perhaps...but I just have a difficult time seeing Alpher Mages getting being= =20 so bored that they would weaken their spellcasting abilities by getting=20 hooked on zzonga. The "rock star" analogy is somewhat applicable, however=20 there are some distinct differences between a celebrity and a magely Alpher=20 noble.=20 For one RW celebrities indulge in booze or narcotics to deal with life on th= e=20 road, either to get hyped up or deal with depression. At least that is the=20 general excuse given by television shows such as VH-1's Behind the Music.=20 This is also seen in "Hammer of the Gods" a book written on Led Zepplin.=20 Other celebrities were hooked before they rose to celebrity status. Celebrit= y=20 status just intensified the addiction as money and privilege allowed more=20 access and excess. For lower income RW addicts, the reasons are remarkably similar to the=20 celebrity's reasons; to escape real life. Crack is a cheap and intense high.= =20 It is also highly addictive. Some reports say that crack addiction cannot be= =20 completely beaten by those affected. Crack flourishes within the inner=20 cities, where life sux. Ironically, the crack epidemic feeds itself and the=20 misery that it requires. Crack has spread into upper income areas because of= =20 its highly addictive nature. Afterall, what harm is one little hit going to=20 cause. In this case, curiousity can kill the cat. Even "rich man's cocaine"=20 is used to deal with stress and act as speed. Anyway, to me zzonga just seems to be contradictory to the general Alphatian= =20 mindset, especially the mindset of the mage aristos. Rivalries provide=20 motivation to master the magical arts and expand known magics to give the=20 mages edges over rivals. Disunity and arrogance concerning their abilities=20 and potential should keep things hectic.=20 Even upon reaching ultimate levels of magical expertise (GC), mages should=20 have the power to access the luxeries of the empire, the world, and even the= =20 multiverse. I just don't see how getting goofy on zzonga can compare to that= .=20 Then there is further spell research to take up any additional freetime. New= =20 magics at high level require even more time. Afterall, there are 1000+ other= =20 archmages to contend with. Not to mention all those up and comers wishing to= =20 knock you off your position of power. Anyway...I don't see why the GC has to be explained away and disqualified by= =20 declaring them a bunch of zzonga junkies. I disagree in beefing up zzonga to= =20 further this line of reasoning. I use to campaign extensively in Alpher Land= s=20 and the GC never made an impact or even appearance. No one ever tries to=20 explain away the Sclari (sp?) Thy mage community, Alfheimers fighter/mages,=20 or the Honor Island (i called them Fire Island mages earlier...oops) mages.=20 What are these guys addicted to to keep them from entering a campaign? I am not saying that there are no zzonga addicts. There are two cited NPCs i= n=20 canon texts, one even has stats in one of the modules (Arena of Thyatis). IM= O=20 zzonga use would be more recreational than committed addiction, probably=20 indulged during a romp in Bluenose or while taking a break from magely life.= =20 Also, zzonga is not physically addictive, so partaking it would not make one= =20 an automatic addict. 1-4 days is all one needs. No mention is made in DotE o= f=20 a craving for renewal the doseage, just the consequences if one takes more=20 before the drug wears off. Of course there is always mental addiction....lik= e=20 with marijuana. In some ways, the subject of zzonga is alot like the subject of slavery.=20 Given the criticsm that TSR has gotten over the years for the fantasy relate= d=20 aspects(sorcery, demons,etc.), it is not too surprising that drug addiction=20 was scarecly addressed. Likewise what information was given was pretty low=20 impact. No stated physical addiction and a state of lethargy are rather safe= =20 as compared to drugs like heroine, crack, cocaine, or even excessive alcohol= =20 use. I appologize if i seem rather resolute on this matter....I have my reasons=20 both game related and personal. I understand that Mystara often demands some= =20 artistic license in filling the gaps in canon materials. However, I am wary=20 of taking too much artistic license in terms of the GC, especially since the= =20 GC is pretty much frankly stated as being composed of 1000 lvl 36 archmages.= =20 Mastery of magic is an alphatian national attribute, dilluting it would=20 undermine Mystara's magical mogul. Likewise, arguing rarely settles anything when Mystara is involved. And in=20 truth, it shouldn't as there are so many variants of Mystara throughout the=20 MML. To each their own in their own campaign. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 14:05:55 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: converging of two- help please! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" More on the Thyatian interests... Thincol could also be testing the Independence procured by King Stefan. It is a blow to Thyatis, and Thincol would not want a direct intervention to his friend, Stefan. Damage control is more important, Thincol could be setting up Stefan to make the wrong move, and Thyatis would have to be united to execute the next plan. Thincol would not make any moves towards Stefan during the war with Alphatia; but the war will end. Thincol will be playing some pretty nasty tricks, and when all his little traps are set, he will have a good reason to take back Vyallia, and Karameikos. Thincol's only problem now would be Alfheim refugees settling in Karameikos (and King Stefan will be using this to his biggest advantage, as he does know how Thincol thinks). Unfortunately, with the current war on the Isle of Dawn, Thincol cannot offer lands for the refugees to settle there. However, if he was losing lands from Vyallia, he may spend the time and energy to offer sovereignty to Alfheimers to settle on the Isle of Dawn, to keep his hidden agenda open (any elves that may sense the two leaders motives can have a real bargaining chip!) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:00:55 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: converging of two- help please! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks a lot Chris, I like this idea. JK Wolf >>> christopher.cherrington@OVERSEASSERVICE.COM 07/25/01 11:05AM >>> More on the Thyatian interests... Thincol could also be testing the Independence procured by King Stefan. = It is a blow to Thyatis, and Thincol would not want a direct intervention to his friend, Stefan. Damage control is more important, Thincol could be setting up Stefan to make the wrong move, and Thyatis would have to be united to execute the next plan. Thincol would not make any moves towards Stefan during the war with Alphatia; but the war will end. Thincol will = be playing some pretty nasty tricks, and when all his little traps are set, = he will have a good reason to take back Vyallia, and Karameikos. Thincol's only problem now would be Alfheim refugees settling in Karameikos (and = King Stefan will be using this to his biggest advantage, as he does know how Thincol thinks). Unfortunately, with the current war on the Isle of Dawn, Thincol cannot offer lands for the refugees to settle there. However, if = he was losing lands from Vyallia, he may spend the time and energy to offer sovereignty to Alfheimers to settle on the Isle of Dawn, to keep his = hidden agenda open (any elves that may sense the two leaders motives can have a real bargaining chip!) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp=20 The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/=20 To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 16:16:10 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: converging of two- help please! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >>> christopher.cherrington@OVERSEASSERVICE.COM 07/25/01 11:05AM >>> > Unfortunately, with the current war on the > Isle of Dawn, > Thincol cannot offer lands for the refugees to settle there. > However, if he > was losing lands from Vyallia, he may spend the time and > energy to offer > sovereignty to Alfheimers to settle on the Isle of Dawn, to > keep his hidden > agenda open (any elves that may sense the two leaders motives > can have a > real bargaining chip!) > Alfheim elves also follow Ilsundal, who is allied with Alphatia. If Thincol can get the refugees to settle on the Isle of Dawn, it would produce a good buffer between Thyatis and Alphatia. Thincol may go far as transporting all of the Alfheim elves to the Isle of Dawn on his ships (as long as they know, they cannot attack Thyatis, or allow Alphatian troops to cross over into Thyatian territory). This would be an expensive project, and Thincol would have to appease the local rulers that will have to move (but he may offer Karameikos as the prize for moving, and they would see the rich lands ripe for the taking, Traladaran slaves, proximity to Mainland Thyatis, et.) Several immortals would have interests in this type of maneuver. Ilsundal will want safe protection for his elves at any cost, and may be convinced that his alliance with Ixion has cost his greatest artifacts, and civilization. Loki would be a good candidate to trick him (or even that other elven immortal in Alphatia). Vanya would not care much, except for the retaking of Karameikos, or the protection of Karameikos (depending on the tides of war). Atzanteotl would want the Alfheim elves as far away from the Shadow Elves as possible (this way they may not unite in the future in an effort to stop his objectives). Rafiel is really smart, and may end up siding with Ilsundal, but knows that Ilsundal will not receive him very well, so he may try to seek out the other immortals objectives to make peace with Ilsundal. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 22:26:28 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Caroletti Subject: Poll: What's your favourite nation? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ok, I know you're tired of this game, but I am not. 8-) Here are the current results: Votes: 112 Alfheim: 7 Alphatia: 10 Bellayne: 2 Broken Lands: 1 Cynidicea: 1 Darokin: 7,5 Dunwick: 1 Ethengar: 4 Eusdria: 1 Five Shires: 2 Glantri: 17 currently number two Graakhalia: 1 Heldann: 1 Hule: 2 Ierendi: 1 Karameikos: 19 currently number one Minrothad: 1 Nithia: 1 Northern Reaches: 2,5 Norwold: 5,5 Rockhome: 3 Serraine: 2,5 Thyatis: 11 currently number three Shadow Elves: 1,5 Wendar: 1,5 Ylaruam: 4 If you want to vote, and you haven't done yet, just e-mail me directly OR mail to the list (hoping that an Alphatian Death Squad won't be sent after me because I am harassing the list since I entered it with this poll... "Who's our Enema Number One" "the Mad Poller Scaevola.....Muahhahahahahah") Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:26:37 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dave Keyser Organization: Palmchip Subject: Re: Zzonga MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alex Benson wrote: > > Anyway...I don't see why the GC has to be explained away and disqualified by > declaring them a bunch of zzonga junkies. I disagree in beefing up zzonga to > further this line of reasoning. I use to campaign extensively in Alpher Lands > and the GC never made an impact or even appearance. No one ever tries to > explain away the Sclari (sp?) Thy mage community, Alfheimers fighter/mages, > or the Honor Island (i called them Fire Island mages earlier...oops) mages. > What are these guys addicted to to keep them from entering a campaign? > > I am not saying that there are no zzonga addicts. There are two cited NPCs in > canon texts, one even has stats in one of the modules (Arena of Thyatis). IMO > zzonga use would be more recreational than committed addiction, probably > indulged during a romp in Bluenose or while taking a break from magely life. > Also, zzonga is not physically addictive, so partaking it would not make one > an automatic addict. 1-4 days is all one needs. No mention is made in DotE of > a craving for renewal the doseage, just the consequences if one takes more > before the drug wears off. Of course there is always mental addiction....like > with marijuana. Perhaps DOTE did not explain zzonga well enough, but my impression has always been that zzonga is very addicting both physically and mentally. Part of that impression comes from the original appearance of zzonga in the module M1, and also from the description in the module DDA1. I don't think people are exaggerating or beefing up the addictive powers of the fruit. DOTE also mentions in the history times when zzonga addiction becomes a heavy burden on the Alphatian Empire. But it is never spelled out clearly, so make of it what you will. I admit to watering down canon slightly when it comes to the Council in Alphatia and the mages on that island on Thyatis. Instead of 36th level, mages are between 33-36th level in both instances. 33rd level was enough to cast wish in the old Masters book(if you had an 18 int), so that makes it a concrete method to determine who are the most powerful mages. Dave Keyser ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 15:25:48 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: The Fall of Alfheim On Wed, 25 Jul 2001 00:53:28 -0400, Dan Eustace wrote: >The stuff from your campaign seems pretty cool, Stalker. Thanks. It's nice to know someone at least reads through it all, let alone appreciate it. > Usually, >individual campaign descriptions don't get much billing on this list, but I >think it is some of the most interesting stuff to be shared. Agreed. Once in a while somebody brings up a subject that makes me describe what's going on IMC. I always mean for it to be ever so brief, yet when I'm done, I'm looking at huge mails that I can't just bring myself to cut stuff from... Then again, I get little response from such mails, which probably means that long mails like that aren't so appreciated, so I try to resist the urge a great deal... (and I have a former player in Australia who's always dying to hear what's going on, so I can always vent my need to describe my campaign in that direction ;) ). > Perhaps it >will give me some ideas for MC which is also in the midst of the Alfheim >War. Perhaps. I don't think we share ideas enough, really. Aaron Nowack mentioned some stuff he had done in Darokin during the war with the Master, and I asked him to put that on the list. He did and I used that as background for my own campaign during these battles, so even if I didn't use his plots, the background was extremely helpful to me... If you can use some of the stuff from my campaign to spark some ideas in yours, then I think that's excellent. > I also liked that timeline from Ville (IIRC) that essentially detailed >most of his campaign. So did I. Good work, btw. > Personally I would be interested in seeing more of >this on the MML. I think it is fun to swap stories and such. > I agree. I guess most of us could post more stuff from our various campaigns, I certainly know that I could, but with little feedback, it's difficult to know if anyone out there is reading mails like that and liking it, or whether they are just too polite to tell you that you're just cluttering up the list... - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 15:31:19 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: The Fall of Alfheim On Wed, 25 Jul 2001 16:11:43 +0000, kevin wyton wrote: >Greetings all > >Wow, what a wealth of info! Thanks to Angelo,Stalker,Christopher, and >Giampolo for the ideas, opinions, and of course directions. > My pleasure. I like sharing ideas. Even if you don't use them, they can spark a lot of new ideas. Just remember to bring those ideas back to the list so we can appreciate them too, please. >We play tonight so I'll be giving her the info right away. > > She started the foreshadowing last session with my PC (Darien) having an >extremely vivid dream of several young elves in a secret meeting. This was >accompanied by an overwhelming sense of foreboding and the sense that if >they were not intercepted that they would all be killed. > This was followed by a view of a secluded glade in the now damaged area of >Alfheim. A beautiful shadowelf female laments the destruction of the forest. >My DM confirmed my suspicions that the first group are Alfheim Avengers and >that the second is the Shadowelf Princess (Dm gave me her name but it >escapes me right now). That would be Princess Tanadaleyo. > My companions and I are kneedeep in avenging the >murder of another PC's mother by a high level goblin assassin (who was >trained by the Darokin Diplomatic Corp).We are also well into the Night >Below adventure. > You have your work cut out for you then! That's a pretty harsh adventure, and huge to say the least!! (snip rest) - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 23:46:21 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: Zzonga MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Perhaps...but I just have a difficult time seeing Alpher Mages getting being so bored that they would weaken their spellcasting abilities by getting hooked on zzonga. The "rock star" analogy is somewhat applicable, however there are some distinct differences between a celebrity and a magely Alpher noble. For one RW celebrities indulge in booze or narcotics to deal with life on the road, either to get hyped up or deal with depression. At least that is the general excuse given by television shows such as VH-1's Behind the Music. This is also seen in "Hammer of the Gods" a book written on Led Zepplin. Yes, I'm familiar with them both (VH1 and LZ, that is, not doing drugs to get hyped up or deal w. depression! ;) Other celebrities were hooked before they rose to celebrity status. Celebrity status just intensified the addiction as money and privilege allowed more access and excess. Even upon reaching ultimate levels of magical expertise (GC), mages should have the power to access the luxeries of the empire, the world, and even the multiverse. I just don't see how getting goofy on zzonga can compare to that. Yeah, but have ever tried it?! ;-) Just kidding, but maybe the intoxication of zzonga is so euphoric and stimulating that the mages are willing to give up all of the other stuff to experience it. I'm not saying all of them, but a certain percentage would become bored with the other stuff and check it out. Others would be arrogant enough that with all of their mastery and power over other elements of the multiverse, they would doubt that "it would happen to them" (become addicted, that is). They might see it as a challenge. The fact is, in real life, many people who have everything throw it all away through drug use. It is not logical, but sometimes temptation and emotional responses gain the upper hand over common sense. Then there is further spell research to take up any additional freetime. New magics at high level require even more time. Afterall, there are 1000+ other archmages to contend with. Not to mention all those up and comers wishing to knock you off your position of power. Anyway...I don't see why the GC has to be explained away and disqualified by declaring them a bunch of zzonga junkies. I disagree in beefing up zzonga to further this line of reasoning. I use to campaign extensively in Alpher Lands and the GC never made an impact or even appearance. No one ever tries to explain away the Sclari (sp?) Thy mage community, Alfheimers fighter/mages, or the Honor Island (i called them Fire Island mages earlier...oops) mages. What are these guys addicted to to keep them from entering a campaign? I don't think that the GC as a whole would be addicts, but certainly out of 1000 mages, some of them would. Others would be absorbed in their studies or other private activities, off exploring the planes, or actually taking an active role in the politics of the empire. Anyways, it is clear that they are not a unified force, and I think people are simply trying to come up with explanations for their general lack of action. If the 1000 ever did unite (like a good number of them did over Glantri to end WotI) they would be a truly *AWESOME* force to reckon with, and it is difficult to get a handle on the full magnitude of this power. Even a single L36 mage (in OD&D) is capable of amazing feats. A PC IMC is a L36 MU dominion ruler, and when he goes into action, it is incredible what can be accomplished. Every time he does, the 1000 Wizards come to mind. Even a mere 1-5% of them could pose a legitimate threat to many nations, at least the way they are described in canon. Of course, these other mages that have been mentioned, political pressures, etc. could also deter them from doing so. Anyhow, the GC is an interesting topic, especially since so little of it was detailed in canon. Dan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 00:52:23 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Alphatia: Rulers, Pre-WOTI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "George Hrabovsky" > If I recall correctly, the population of Alphatia in terms of citizens (i.e. > spell-casters) is 400,000 or so. A figure I consider low for such a sizable > Empire. I would agree that that figure is laughably low. As of 1000 AC, one fifth of all Alphatians had spellcasting talent. 400,000 citizens would thus imply a total population of 2,000,000 -- which is well short of the officially reported census figure of 5,800,000 and even shorter of the (IMO well reasoned) Thyatian estimate of thrice that figure. On that basis, the Alphatian Empire in 1000 AC would have 17,400,000 subjects, of whom 3,480,000 would be spellcasting citizens. Thank the Immortals that even in WotI the Alphatians failed to bring all of that power to bear against their foes! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 00:57:57 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Slavery and Immortals Part 3 of 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "James Mishler" > > Rathanos (C/CN) - Rathanos is not opposed to slavery, especially with regard > to the enslavement of females. He does not go out of his way to promulgate > the idea, however, nor in general do his followers. However, most of the > societies that follow him practice slavery in one form or another and > consider it to be a natural part of society. Hmmm.... So for Rathanos, it seems we should read John Norman's "Gor" novels and use their prevailing philosophy to govern the social attitudes of Rathanos, right? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 01:10:42 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Slavery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Alex Benson" > > <<3) Thyatians might purchase slaves from Alphatia and other slaveholding > societies.>> > > i disagree out of principle....Alphers and Thys swapping slaves....for shame > :-) > anyway...Thyatis is given as being a bit slave crazy with sizable slave > populations. i don't think that trade would fill the required slave numbers. Then again -- why not? Keep in mind the Jennites, whom the Alphatians have doubtless enslaved in very large numbers. Transporting the more troublesome among them as far as possible from Skothar would certainly be a major priority for the Alphatians -- and thus sellling them to the Thyatians would be an obvious and highly inviting possibility. While the more intelligent and enlightened Thyatians would see them as a possible source of recruits for making trouble among the Alphatians, wouldn't the high demand for slaves in Thyatis induce most Thyatians to pay the bargain prices for Jennite slaves offered by the Alpatians and then use them in the usual manner of slaves? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 01:17:07 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Slavery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Christopher Cherrington" > Another interesting note about RW slavery... > The Islamic Turks used to capture their enemies, then castrate them and > train them in their armies (only the young captives). These armies were > very formidable and loyal. This sounds like something Hule would do to the > Sindhi and Daro captives in their aggressions. Gaz 2 actually makes reference to those "Mamluks" in their descriptions of Ylari fighting orders -- only they were not slaves as the historical Mamluks were. In regard to the real world referents -- I don't recall seeing any references to them being castrated. IIRC, they were taken from their Christian families at a very young age and raised as Muslims. They were fantatically loyal to the Ottoman Turkish sultan as long as they were properly rewarded -- but if they were not, they were a major threat to the sultan's authority. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 01:18:10 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Slavery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Christopher Cherrington" > > The Honor Island goblins were supposed to be larger and more intelligent > than your normal goblin (possibly by many years of enhancements and breeding > programs). They probably also tried to make them look more human or > pleasing in appearance. Nothing in Gaz 4 seems to support those suppositions. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:33:49 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Giampaolo Agosta Subject: Re: Zzonga MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > The "rock star" analogy is somewhat applicable, however > there are some distinct differences between a celebrity and a magely Alpher > noble. I agree that modern celebrities don't match the Alphatian mage clich�. I think a better match (though a fictional one) would be Sherlock Holmes--high intelligent, high experienced character who indulged in drugs, in a time when drugs where not considered a social problem. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:34:42 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Caroletti Subject: To bring two problems to naught, destroying canon if you don't mind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LOW LEVELING MAGIC IN THE WORLD OF MYSTARA Note: I use AD&D levels. level 12 = level 20, level 20 = level 36 SYSTEM ONE Alphatia population: 6'000'000 spellcasters: 20% = 1'200'000 1'150'000 magic users 50'000 clerics grand council: 1000 wizards of D&D level 12+ number of 9+ level wizards: about 4'500 (thus not all level 12+ wizards are represented in the Council) Thyatis population: 3'000'000 spellcasters: 5% = 150'000 magic users 60'000 clerics 90'000 wizards of sclaras: 250 estates only for wizards of level 12+ currently only about 180 occupied number of level 9+ wizards: about 300 Known World (whole, including Thyatis) number of level 9+ wizards: about 3'000 SYSTEM TWO Alphatia number of wizards level 9+: about 1'000 Thyatis number of wizards level 9+: about 70 Known World (whole, Thyatis included) number of wizards level 9+: about 700 COMMENTS The first option gives the possibility to have many magic users in Mystara still, but it cancels two huge problems (Sclaras and the Great Council). The second option is much more radical, and makes Mystara a medium to low fantasy setting (depending on your vision of low and medium). Personally I prefer the second option. The wizards are still many, but I think that everywhere, even in Alphatia, most wizards would not be able to go past level 4 or 5 (if you see the experience needed, it would take a huge amount of monsters killed and/or so many resources and money and time for magical research). Thus, having about 1'700 wizards of title level on a population of about 13'000'000 (if I recall correctly) ------ is about 1 out of 10'000 people. I prefer this interpretation, because I believe it keeps the Mystaran feeling but prevents "total mass destructions". Well, it doesn't prevent them, but try figure out the 9+ level wizards using the DotE figures......I shiver at the thought. The only reason because Mystara is not munchkin and ridiculous like FR is that those who wrote for Mystara didn't think about the implications and consiquences of what they were writing...so mind you, fan-base, don't ruin this world!!!! 8-) Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 05:13:26 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Subject: Re: To bring two problems to naught, destroying canon if you don't mind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My personal feeling is that having a continent full of spell-casters (well, 20% is pretty full, in my opinion) is very interesting. I think we focus on wizards, but I think the real meaning of the 1,000 should include elves, clerics, shaman, wokani, and God knows what else (how many things like Darokin Merchants or Minrothad Sea-Princes are there?). If we split it up that way, then things become, I think, somewhat more reasonable. Here is the way I see Alphatia (and I am currently running a game based there). Admittedly this is based on my own game system and not D&D, so the conversion is a little difficult to do. But I think the flavor is the same: 1. Think decadent. No, I mean really decadent. 20% of the population casts spells or uses other types of magical powers. Everyone else exists to serve them in some way or other. Think Atlantis but with a government that is a combination of the British house of Lords and the Mafia. Each member of the Council is a 36th level caster of some kind. It is likely that every country has a representative on the Council, every town, every guild hall, every temple, every college, every major military unit, etc. Each of these people will form their own cliques, kabals that are designed to promote and protect their own interests. These are the most dedicated people in the realm. I doubt that more than a few agree on small things, larger things (like those affecting a region of the Empire) might attract 10% in political support, nation-wide issues might attract 25% support. I can imagine that it takes a lot of political manuevering to get anything done. 2. Think decadent. No, I mean REALLY decadent. Not every 36th level caster is a member of the Council. No way! Who would want to serve on some goofy council when you could be having fun doing your research, serving your Immortal, etc. Who is going to force you? 3. Think decadent. No, I mean really, really decadent. I suspect that most citizens of Alphatia have to be forced to do things beyond their interests.What other incentive is there? They have slaves and servants to do thing for them. They are a law unto themselves. When it comes to law, think the Old West. The town sheriff is the one voted most powerful that wants the job. Voted in this case means by the most powerful factions in town. The few ambitious people in Alphatia are the ones who run things. 4. Think decadent. I think you know what I mean by now. I doubt that any more than 10% of the citizens actually do practical things with their magic beyond the day-to-day necessities. Why should they? "That's what the council is for," would be the laconic reply of anyone approached to actually DO something. If the request is not followed up by some coersion, then the conversation would stop there. If you were independently wealthy and could spend all of you time doing whatever you wanted, what would be a good incentive to make you stop? Just some thoughts. This would be very "munchkin" if it were not so decadent. If, for example, Glantri ever developed to this level, that would be a power that no one could stop. They have politics, true, but they work together. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Caroletti" To: Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 2:34 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] To bring two problems to naught, destroying canon if you don't mind > LOW LEVELING MAGIC IN THE WORLD OF MYSTARA > Note: I use AD&D levels. level 12 = level 20, level 20 = level 36 > > > SYSTEM ONE > > Alphatia > population: 6'000'000 > spellcasters: 20% = 1'200'000 > 1'150'000 magic users > 50'000 clerics > grand council: 1000 wizards of D&D level 12+ > number of 9+ level wizards: about 4'500 (thus not all level 12+ wizards > are > represented in the Council) > > Thyatis > population: 3'000'000 > spellcasters: 5% = 150'000 > magic users 60'000 > clerics 90'000 > wizards of sclaras: 250 estates only for wizards of level 12+ > currently only about 180 occupied > number of level 9+ wizards: about 300 > > Known World (whole, including Thyatis) > number of level 9+ wizards: about 3'000 > > > SYSTEM TWO > > Alphatia > number of wizards level 9+: about 1'000 > > Thyatis > number of wizards level 9+: about 70 > > Known World (whole, Thyatis included) > number of wizards level 9+: about 700 > > > COMMENTS > The first option gives the possibility to have many magic users in > Mystara still, but > it cancels two huge problems (Sclaras and the Great Council). > The second option is much more radical, and makes Mystara a medium to > low > fantasy setting (depending on your vision of low and medium). Personally > I > prefer the second option. The wizards are still many, but I think that > everywhere, > even in Alphatia, most wizards would not be able to go past level 4 or 5 > (if you > see the experience needed, it would take a huge amount of monsters > killed and/or > so many resources and money and time for magical research). Thus, having > > about 1'700 wizards of title level on a population of about 13'000'000 > (if I recall > correctly) ------ is about 1 out of 10'000 people. > I prefer this interpretation, because I believe it keeps the Mystaran > feeling but > prevents "total mass destructions". Well, it doesn't prevent them, but > try figure > out the 9+ level wizards using the DotE figures......I shiver at the > thought. The only > reason because Mystara is not munchkin and ridiculous like FR is that > those who > wrote for Mystara didn't think about the implications and consiquences > of what they > were writing...so mind you, fan-base, don't ruin this world!!!! 8-) > > Iulius Sergius Scaevola > Captain of the XXth Cohort > Port Lucinius, Thyatis > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:57:31 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Geoff Gander Subject: [ADMIN] Absent Hi all, Just in case anyone wanted to contact me (Mystara-related or otherwise), I'll be away from July 27th-August 5th, so there will be a delay in responding to you. So have fun, everyone! Geoff PS - To anyone going to Gen Con, I'll be staying at Marquette University for the duration of the Con, if someone wants to hook up, they could try to reach me there, or at the Top Secret S/I game on the morning of the 3rd. Let me know ASAP if anyone's interested, as I'm still checking mail at this addy until tomorrow morning. -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 17:42:02 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Agathokles Subject: Re: To bring two problems to naught,destroying canon if you don't mind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Caroletti wrote: > > LOW LEVELING MAGIC IN THE WORLD OF MYSTARA Here is my version, somewhat based on the tables in the High Level Campaigns book for AD&D 2e. POPULATION 9th level+ characters Thyatis Mainland 3.200.000 3328 Alphatia Mainland 6.530.000 6791 9th+ level NPCs Thyatis Alphatia (Qualify for GC) Fighters 40% = 1331 30% = 2037 Rangers* 6% = 200 2% = 136 Paladins* 1% = 33 1% = 68 Clerics 21% = 700 20% = 1358 (170) Druids** 1% = 33 2% = 136 ( 17) Wizards*** 6% = 200 15% = 1018 (127) Specialists 2% = 65 10% = 680 ( 85) Thieves 20% = 666 15% = 1018 Bards 3% = 100 5% = 340 ( 3) THE GRAND COUNCIL Requirements for the Grand Council of Alphatia Cast spells of 6th level**** (priestly or wizardly) or more or Be one of the Druids or Archdruids, or the Grand Druid of Alphatia or a Hierophant Current members: ~400 "Lost" members: ~300 Applicant members: ~300 TOTAL ~1000 Applicant members have the ability to cast 5th level spells and have 17+ Int or Wis. Applicants have no voting power. "Lost" Members are those members who have not been reported as active or whose whereabouts are unknown, for at least a couple decades. Among these are wizards whose death is not proved (died while on some Outer Plane), those who left Alphatia (like Barimoor), those who reached Immortality, Demi-lichdom or Exalted status, and some who simply refuse to show up for some reason (misanthropes from Blackheart). Among the Lost Members are probably Barimoor, Palartarkan, and that Alphatian necromancer in Ravenloft. THE WIZARDS OF SCLARAS All Thyatian Wizards able to cast 5th level spells have the right to request one of the Dominions. There are 250 estates. *I doubt that there are actually Paladins or Rangers in Alphatia: if one has the ability to wield priestly magic, he will become a priest or druid rather than wait years before becoming an aristocrat. However, they do not enter the Grand Council (they are unable to cast high level spells). In Thyatis, the Ranger entry includes Foresters. **I think there are lots of Druids in Alphatia mainland. This fits well with the low population figures (druids and reclusive mages keep people from settling in wilderness regions). ***The percentage of wizards may seem low, but I consider a very high number of 0-level spellcasters. There are two basic choices, here: either they are standard 0-level characters with the cantrip skill (allowing them to cast 4 cantrips a day, which work only on a successful Int check), or adapting the rules that allow 0-level characters to evolve in AD&D 2e (they get only more skill slots, I'd allow 0-level NPCs to use those slots to buy spell slots, at a rate of 1 skill = 1 1st lvl spell, usable once per day, under the same restrictions as for cantrips). So, true wizards would be fewer, 2.5% of the total population, with these 0-level spellcasters accounting for the remaining 17.5% of the Alphatian population able to cast wizardly spells. ****Note that this choice limits the influence of priests in the Grand Council severely. Clerics in the GC are, on average, much more experienced than their wizardly colleagues. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:27:31 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: ramhog Subject: Speaking of getting to 36th level... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I turn 36 tomorrow! From here on out, it's the path to immortality!! Viktor von Hendriks- Sooner or later, Thyatis WILL be mine! -- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:44:02 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Caroletti Subject: The Fighting Orders of Nentsun - Introduction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit THE FIGHTING ORDERS OF NENTSUN The kingdoms of the Inner Circle survive because of the psychic and physical energies of the Masters of the two Fighting Orders of Nentsun. These ten men have the duty of controlling the Unholy Devices of Blekmur, who sent the world in the dark ages several millennias ago. [This is how the Nentsunians remember the Great Rain of Fire]. The Unholy Devices of Blekmur are at the same time a blessing and a danger. They are a blessing in that they make the Inner Circle�s lands feritle and rich, and, moreover, they have also beneficial climatical effects on the Outer Circle. However, while the Outer Circle would be able to survive without them, and simply become a little colder, the Inner Circle would soon become a cold and barren land without them. The Masters of the Orders are ten selected men whose lives are devoted to the control of the Devices. Through strong will and particular psychic powers, the Masters are able to prevent the Devices from exploding. Even if each Master is assigned a single Device, the Devices are linked, and thus there is theorically need for only one Master at time to prevent the explosion. However, the Masters are always at �work� together, to easen the task for each other. What the Nentsunians don�t know is that if the Devices explode, the problem will not only be that they won�t provide the energy to the land to make it hospitable, warm and fertile: their explosion will cause another (although limited) cataclysm very similar to the Great Rain of Fire� But let�s take a look at the Fighting Orders� organization. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:44:52 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Caroletti Subject: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ok, I sent the "Introduction" incomplete!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will repost it immediately. Ignore the old one. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:45:52 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Caroletti Subject: The Fighting Orders of Nentsun - Introduction (complete) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit THE FIGHTING ORDERS OF NENTSUN The kingdoms of the Inner Circle survive because of the psychic and physical energies of the Masters of the two Fighting Orders of Nentsun. These ten men have the duty of controlling the Unholy Devices of Blekmur, who sent the world in the dark ages several millennias ago. [This is how the Nentsunians remember the Great Rain of Fire]. The Unholy Devices of Blekmur are at the same time a blessing and a danger. They are a blessing in that they make the Inner Circle�s lands feritle and rich, and, moreover, they have also beneficial climatical effects on the Outer Circle. However, while the Outer Circle would be able to survive without them, and simply become a little colder, the Inner Circle would soon become a cold and barren land without them. The Masters of the Orders are ten selected men whose lives are devoted to the control of the Devices. Through strong will and particular psychic powers, the Masters are able to prevent the Devices from exploding. Even if each Master is assigned a single Device, the Devices are linked, and thus there is theorically need for only one Master at time to prevent the explosion. However, the Masters are always at �work� together, to easen the task for each other. What the Nentsunians don�t know is that if the Devices explode, the problem will not only be that they won�t provide the energy to the land to make it hospitable, warm and fertile: their explosion will cause another (although limited) cataclysm very similar to the Great Rain of Fire� But let�s take a look at the Fighting Orders� organization. THE FIGHTING SCHOOLS All over Nentsun (both Inner and Outer Circles), when a boy becomes 6 years old, he is brought by his parents to the local temple to be visited by clerics. They ask the Immortals wheter the boy has the potential to become a Master. If the boy is blessed, then he is immediately sent to one of the two fighting schools. He stays in the school for 10 years, after which he is assigned to one of the minor orders, or he is taken as Heir by a Master and is initiated to the arts of becoming one himself. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:37:36 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dave Keyser Organization: Palmchip Subject: Re: Alphatia: Rulers, Pre-WOTI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Knott wrote: > > I would agree that that figure is laughably low. As of 1000 AC, one > fifth of all Alphatians had spellcasting talent. 400,000 citizens would > thus imply a total population of 2,000,000 -- which is well short of > the officially reported census figure of 5,800,000 and even shorter > of the (IMO well reasoned) Thyatian estimate of thrice that figure. > On that basis, the Alphatian Empire in 1000 AC would have > 17,400,000 subjects, of whom 3,480,000 would be spellcasting > citizens. Thank the Immortals that even in WotI the Alphatians > failed to bring all of that power to bear against their foes! Well, you can't get 100% participation in your wars. But while 1 in 5 Alphatian have spellcasting talent, I would not say that Alphatian subjects of other tribes have anywhere close to that ratio. Most of them will be slaves and low castes. So ~1 million spellcasters is a more accurate number, many of which will be low level. Dave Keyser ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:39:49 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dave Keyser Organization: Palmchip Subject: Re: Slavery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Knott wrote: > > Gaz 2 actually makes reference to those "Mamluks" in their descriptions > of Ylari fighting orders -- only they were not slaves as the historical > Mamluks were. Do you have a page reference for that? That came up recently in my campaign. Dave Keyser ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 22:44:51 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: To bring two problems to naught, destroying canon if you don't mind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [snip] > 1. Think decadent. No, I mean really decadent. 20% of the population casts > spells or uses other types of magical powers. Everyone else exists to serve > them in some way or other. Think Atlantis but with a government that is a > combination of the British house of Lords and the Mafia. Each member of the > Council is a 36th level caster of some kind. It is likely that every country > has a representative on the Council, every town, every guild hall, every > temple, every college, every major military unit, etc. Each of these people > will form their own cliques, kabals that are designed to promote and protect > their own interests. These are the most dedicated people in the realm. I > doubt that more than a few agree on small things, larger things (like those > affecting a region of the Empire) might attract 10% in political support, > nation-wide issues might attract 25% support. I can imagine that it takes a > lot of political manuevering to get anything done. I think that this is a fairly accurate description of what Alphatia could be like. > 2. Think decadent. No, I mean REALLY decadent. Not every 36th level caster > is a member of the Council. No way! Who would want to serve on some goofy > council when you could be having fun doing your research, serving your > Immortal, etc. Who is going to force you? It could also be that most 36th level's are on the council (as a status thing mostly - "What, Zylcazbiah? Bah! He isn't even on the Grand Council!"), but that after gaining access they just return to all of their other interests, leaving much less than 1000 to do the actual work. [snip other good ideas on Alpher society] Dan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 22:54:01 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: The Fall of Alfheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [snip] > > Personally I would be interested in seeing more of > >this on the MML. I think it is fun to swap stories and such. > > > > I agree. I guess most of us could post more stuff from our various > campaigns, I certainly know that I could, but with little feedback, it's > difficult to know if anyone out there is reading mails like that and liking > it, or whether they are just too polite to tell you that you're just > cluttering up the list... That's why I sent the response. To make the point that I don't think that it clutters the list, and to keep it up. I agree that feedback on campaigns is usually next to none, and that I usually interpret that as disinterest. There's alot of people on the list with lots of different ideas, so I'm sure that some of them find it interesting, and some don't. The same goes for any of the other topics. Some I am interested in, and some I'm not, but they all have their place and their share of fans. I find that stories from campaigns can spark adventure ideas and help to put things in context more than just plain stats and rules. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 23:16:46 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: To bring two problems to naught, destroying canon if you don't mind In-Reply-To: <002a01c115bb$9c588880$d539abd0@tds.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:13 AM 7/26/01 -0500, you wrote: > >Just some thoughts. This would be very "munchkin" if it were not so >decadent. If, for example, Glantri ever developed to this level, that would >be a power that no one could stop. They have politics, true, but they work >together. Glantri is actually a very apt comparison, IMO. Look at the trouble that Glantri has getting any sort of consensus on things- ten (and later, more) princes squabbling, politicking, and bickering amongst themselves, jockeying for position. Add to that numerous lesser, petty lords (barons, viscounts, etc.) who are doing the same thing. Then factor in all the secret societies, legal administrations/bureaus, and other figures that are doing the exact same thing... and I think you get a good idea of what Alphatia should actually be like- Glantri on a humongous scale. Never mind that there is one "uber" figure who serves as the titular head of all- the Emperor/Empress- you've still got the council of wizards who can bring enormous power to bear in favor of/against said Emperor/Empress; the military, who can do likewise; the nobles (kings and lesser rulers) who may or may not work with/for the council and Emperor/Empress; and a lot more secret cabals, societies, and lesser influences manipulating things for their own gain. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 09:16:19 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Caroletti Subject: Re: Speaking of getting to 36th level... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Viktor von Hendriks- > Sooner or later, Thyatis WILL be mine! > -- I rather doubt it. How many chances do you have to marry Prince Coltius? 8-) Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 09:24:31 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Caroletti Subject: The Fighting Orders of Nentsun - Divine School of the Bear MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A. DIVINE SCHOOL OF THE BEAR The Divine School of the Bear is the School which is represented by the Northern Sky, and the Chaotic alignement. It is protected by Immortals of Energy and Thought. The Bear represents energy and creativity, and has the duty of controlling four of the Devices. It is common belief that the Bear controls artifacts who favor the unnaturally warm climate of the Inner Circle, and thus they are the protectors of fertility and growth in the land. Four of the Masters come from the Bear. The School has about hundred permanent minor members, who should act as guards for the Masters, but more often, in accord with the chaotic nature of the School, wander through Nentsun and either offer their services for payment (neutral ones) or for free (good ones). Evil ones use their powers for themselves. To become a fighter of the Bear, a boy must be blessed when he is six by the Immortals of Energy. The life of a member of the Bear is hard: when he is 6, the boy is taken to the Monastery of the Bear, where he learns, in the ten following years, to fight. If he survives the harsh training, and isn�t cast out of the school due to incapacity, at 16 he will either become a full 1st level Fighter of the Order, or chosen as Heir by one of the Masters. The latter case will be treated separately. Let�s look at the characteristics of a common Bear Fighter: Bear Fighter Class: Fighter Race: Human Requisites: STR 8, INT 8, DX 12, COS 12 Alignment: No lawful Weapon proficiencies: the Bear�s Fighters can become proficient only in these weapons at the start of their career (1st level): short sword, wakizashi, sai, staff, nunchaku. Then, he can choose whatever weapon he wants. Special Benefits: the Bear�s Fighters learn how to press the tsubos, vital points of the human body, when fighting bare-handed. Touching the tsubos allow them to alter nerves and muscles in precise areas of the body, causing them negative or positive effects, and thus they are very dangerous opponents. They automatically receive at no cost the Martial Arts and Boxing proficiencies, and they can learn to control the tsubos. The School of the Bear is a chaotic one. After learning theorically where the tsubos are set in the body, it�s up to the individual fighter to learn to treat them and obtain the desired effect. When he become 16, a Bear Fighter has learned 4 tsubo effects. At this point, they are considered 1st level fighters. Each three additional levels, a Bear Fighter can choose to renounce to a weapon slot to learn another tsubo effect. Every level above the 12th (included) he also gets another tsubo effect in addition to those he would gain normally. This results in the Bear Fighters being each very different from the others. No Bear Fighter can learn a number of tsubo effects higher than that of his Constitution score. Special Hindrances: due to the speed needed to attack bare-handed and hit the tsubos, this form of attack may be used only while wearing leather armors or no armor at all. This in addition to the loss of weapon proficiencies needed to learn tsubos use. Last but not least, a Bear Fighter that is not a Master or a Heir cannot proceed further than 16th level (AD&D). A Bear Fighter that leaves the Lands of Nentsun will lose � of his experience points. If he returns back he doesn�t gain the XPs back. This fact is known to the Fighters, who are told so by their teachers during the apprentice years. See "Tsubos for the School of the Bear" to have more details on the secret attacks of this school. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 09:30:59 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Caroletti Subject: The Fighting Orders of Nentsun - Tsubos for the School of the Bear MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Divine School of the Bear: TSUBOS First, it must be noted that only fighters who have leather armors (or lighter) can attack barehanded to hit the tsubos. Secondly, it is very important to remember that the tsubo effects can be produced exclusively on exposed body parts. An opponent in plate armor cannot be hit in this way. However, if arms or legs or the head of the opponent are unarmored, the Bear Fighter can make an attack with a �4 penalty (-8 if it is the head), and if he hits, then he will be normally able to inflict the tsubo effects on that parts. If attacking without �aiming� an unarmored enemy, after having hit the Fighter will have to roll a d20 and check the part of the body that he hits. This doesn�t matter if the tsubo effect needs the Fighter to hit a certain part of the body to take place. It is to be noted, too, that the effects work only for humanoids creatures only, up to the size of frost giants (approximately 11 HD). There are tsubos all over the body. The exact 19 locations are these: 1. Hand 2. Forearm 3. Arm 4. Shoulder 5. Neck 6. Chest 7. Heart 8. Lung 9. Stomach 10. Liver 11. Abdomen 12. Back 13. Pubis 14. Hip 15. Thigh 16. Leg 17. Foot 18. Ancle 19. Head If a Fighter hits and the tsubo may have special effects if a specific part is hit (eg: devastation), roll d20 to see which part of the body has been hit (re-roll results of 20) The tsubo effects and fighting techniques of the school are of 19 different types: 1. Devastation This effect consists in the heavy damaging of the organ that has been hit. If the bear Fighter is able to hit, the opponent will lose 2d10 hit points and that part of the body remains useless (obviously this may result in the knock-out of the enemy). If the damage roll is 20, then that part of the body is completely destroyed (if he hit the head, the victim is dead). This effect cannot be learned before 7th level. 2. Technique of the Two Fingers This is a special attack, not truly a tsubo effect. If the Bear Fighter should be hit by an arrow or a quarrel (or other small missile weapon that can be held with two fingers), he can try to block it with his two fingers, making a succesful dexterity check (with a penalty equal to the difference of the opponent�s thaco and his dice roll); if he makes another dexterity check he will even be able to return it against the opponent (in this case a normal hit roll applies). 3. the Wave that Destroys the Mountain Apart from an immediate damage of 1d6 hp, this tsubo effect causes heavy bleeding in the victim, that, if hit, begins to lose an additional 1d6 hp/round until it stops for at least one round to cure herself. The wound may cause additional problems, exact effects depend on the DM (ex. if one person bleeds in his hip she may have a �1 thaco penalty). 4. Gate of Life This effect may be used only if the Fighter is above 9th level. The �Gate of Life� tsubo is what it�s name means: if the Bear Fighter is able to hit it (it is located in the chest, location 6), he can decide the moment when the victim will die (starting from 5 seconds up to 3 days). This tsubo effect costs two slots. To avoid the effect, a victim must make a succesful save vs. death when hit. Then, if he manages to do it, she will have to make another one each round after if the effect will take place in less than 1 turn, and one each turn after if the effect takes place in less than 1 hour; otherwise, she must make one each hour. The victim loses 1 constitution point permanently for each failed save. When the decided moment comes, the victim must make a final save that decides if she lives or dies, BUT with a penalty equal to the number of constitution point lost, and a bonus equal to the levels of the Fighter below the 16th (no penalty for levels 16-20). The lost constitution points may be regained with a Heal (one for each lost point), with a Cure Aching Tsubo (restores immediately all constitution points) or Wish. However, these spells will work only after the last save. The victim may be raised normally. 5. Oblivion This tsubo effect may be used only if the Bear Fighter hits the head. The attack doesn�t inflict damage, but the victim must make a save vs. spells (with a penalty equal to the theorical damage the fighter would have inflicted if he had hit normally, not modified by the strength), or enter a state of cathatonia for 1d6 turns, after which he will forget all events of 1d6 turns before he was hit. If the victim is attacked in any form, he will recover conscience and the effect will not take place. This effect may be used only on intelligent creatures. 6. Erase Strength This tsubo effect deprives the victim of her strenght. She must make a save vs. paralysis and one vs. spells. If both saves are succesful, the victim loses 4 strength points for 1d6+6 rounds. If only the first is succesful, the victim loses 8 strength points for 1d6+6 rounds, then she regains 4 points, and after 1d6+6 rounds she regains the remaining 4. If only the second is succesful, the victim loses 4 strenght points for 1d6 + 6 turns, then regains them all. If none is succesful, then the victim loses 8 Strength points for 1d6+6 turns. After this time, the victim regains 4 Strength points, then she regains 1 point per week, but ONLY if she makes a succesful save vs. spells, otherwise she LOSES 1 point. 7. Slow Death This effect results in the victim�s muscles becoming slowly incontrollable and twisted. The exact effect of this tsubo depends on the level of the Bear Fighter: Level 1-3 Victim loses 2 points of dexterity for 1d10 rounds, and has a �2 to thaco for 1d10 rounds. Save vs. death for halved effects. Level 4-8 Victim trembling, -2 to thaco, dexterity and strenght for 3d10 rounds, and loses 1d10 hit points. Save for halved effects. Level 9-15 Like before, but �3 to values, 4d8 rounds and loses 2d10 hit points. Save for halved effects. Level 16-19 Victim �4 to said values for 1 turn, loses 1d4 hit points/round for 3d10 rounds, and a permanent �1 to constitution. Save for � effect. Level 20 Victim �8 to values for 1 turn, loses 1d10 hit points/round for 3d8 rounds, and a permanent �1 to constitution. 8. Light This tsubo effect is not a fighting one. If the Fighter presses his fingers on a tsubo located near the eyes of a blinded victim, it will restore its sight. Obviously this doesn�t work if the eye is utterly corrupted. 9. Shintanchu (Hold) This tsubo effect doesn�t work if the hit part is the head. The victim must make a save vs. paralysis, with a penalty equal to � [(level of the Fighter) � 4]. Or be �held� for 1d6 turns. If the victims makes the save, it is paralyzed for a number of rounds equal to (1d6) + (Level of the Fighter) � 6. The tsubo may also be used to obtain partial effects, blocking only one arm or leg, but in this case the Fighter must hit a tsubo located on the desired limb. In this case, moreover, the save has an additional �4 penalty. A Fighter of level 9 or above may decide, when pressing the tsubo, to delay the effect of this tsubo up to 10 rounds. 10. Cure aching This effect may be used on a aching part of the body to remove the source of the aching. Example: John has back-ache because he has worked in the garden all the afternoon. With the tsubo effect, the back will regain its strenght and mobility. It can also be used for all sort of sprains, traumas, and halves the time needed to recover from fractures, marches, fatiguating performances etc. 11. Strength The Bear Fighter can enhance the Strength of a person. If he does it upon another one, she receives 1d4 Strenght points. The duration of the effect is of 1 turn per level of the Fighter. After the 7th level, it becomes of 1 hour per level above the 5th. After the 12th level, 1 day per level above the 10th. When this time finishes, the person must make a Shock check or suffer the effects of the Erase Strenght tsubo as given for a person that fails both saves. If she makes the check, she suffers the effect of a person that makes only the second save. If the Fighter uses it upon himself, he gains 1d4 points of Strenght for 1 hour per level, and he doesn�t suffer back effects. 12. Choke This tsubo effect may be used only if the Fighter hits neck, chest or lung. The victim starts choking. If he doesn�t make a Constitution check, he will choke in 1d12 rounds, otherwise he will anyway be unable to fight for 1d4 rounds. To counter the effect, a Heal spell, or other similar spells, will suffice. 13. Shitsugen (Backward Dance of Repentance) This tsubo effect can be used only hitting the legs (locations 14 to 16). A person hit by the tsubo is forced to move backwards at half its normal speed for 1d10 rounds. If the victim makes a Constitution check, he will move only for 1d4 rounds. 14. Zusho (Revealing Tsubo) This tsubo effect may be used only on the head or neck. If a person fails a Wisdom check, it is forced to answer to all the questions asked by the Fighter for 1d10 rounds. If the person succeeds in the check, the person will be forced to answer just the first question. The questions and answers must always be simple ones, otherwise the victim is allowed another check, with a +2 to +8 bonus, depending on the importance of the question � exact bonus is left to the DM. 15. Kensei (Compassion Tsubo) This tsubo, if hit, makes the victim �immune� to pain. The person doesn�t feel any suffering from any sort of damage, although she continues to lose hit points. However, the person cannot be stunned, knocked unconscious and so on. The effect lasts for 1 turn, +1 round for level of the Fighter. 16. Blind This tsubo is located only on the head. If hit, it blinds the person that fails a save vs. death, with a �1 penalty for level of the Fighter above 9th. If the person is blinded in this way, only a Heal spell or a �Light� tsubo will allow the victim to see again. 17. Suffering This effect will make the victim suffer much more than normally. Its effect lasts for 1d10 rounds, +1 for level of the Fighter above the 9th (only 1d4 rounds if the victim makes succesfully the save). For this period of time, however, all damages done to the victim must be doubled (if the Fighter is above 12th level, x3, if above 16th x4). This damage is not real: if the victim goes below 0 hit points, it simply loses consciousness, and recovers the hit points (and thus consciousness) when the effect ends. 18. Further life (Tsubo of Heart and Soul) This tsubo is one of the ultimate secrets of the School, and may be learned only by a Fighter of level 14 or above. Moreover, it costs two weapon slots. If pressed, this tsubo will allow a dying man (it doesn�t matter why he is dying, because this effect cures everything in every form, except for Immortal interference) to recover all hit points and have all physical damages cured. This tsubo may be used only once for person. The person must make five succesful constitution checks to survive the experience, because it is a very harmful one, and it has some backdrop (left to the DM, but may be: hair becomes completely white, etc.). If the person suffers great emotions in the month after the cure, he will have to make another constitution check or die for the shock. This is because the tsubo, called "of the Heart and Soul") base its strenght on the will to survive of the person, and on his determination. If, as an example, his wife is killed, he could survive just the time to kill her murderer, then his body would collapse. This gives the DM a wide range of action. If a person hasn't got the will to live, this tsubo is useless. 19. the Tranquil Water This is not a tsubo, but a defensive fighting style. If the Fighter is able to be not hit for two rounds, he may perform a sort of weird fighting dance and assume a certain position that will allow him to make his defense much better (resulting in a +4 bonus to AC, +5 if the Fighter is above 9th level, +6 if 12th, +7 if 16th). This effect can be used when attacking with weapons, but not if the Fighter is using an armor heavier than the leather one. If theFighter attacks while using this style, he has a �4 penalty to attacks, because the style is suited for defense only. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 04:26:27 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Slavery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Dave Keyser" > David Knott wrote: > > > > > Gaz 2 actually makes reference to those "Mamluks" in their descriptions > > of Ylari fighting orders -- only they were not slaves as the historical > > Mamluks were. > > Do you have a page reference for that? That came up recently in my > campaign. Yes -- see p. 17, 3d column, under "Staging". ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 09:05:31 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Zzonga (various) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Giampaolo Said: <<>=A0 The "rock star" analogy is somewhat applicable, however > there are some distinct differences between a celebrity and a magely Alphe= r > noble. > I agree that modern celebrities don't match the Alphatian mage clich=E8. I think a better match (though a fictional one) would be Sherlock Holmes--high intelligent, high experienced character who indulged in drugs, in a time when drugs where not considered a social problem.>> Hmm...I am glad you brought up the matter of intelligence and social stigma.= =20 Mages are the brainiacs of the setting, their trade demands literacy and=20 research. Zzonga and its affects are well-known to the Alphers. There is als= o=20 a stigma, with zzonga nurseries and labs being "secret". There are also=20 mentionings of nobles "slumming". I would also point out that the real world= =20 War On Drugs has shifted from direct assaults on the source and jailing of=20 users to education and treatment. Anyway...with the affects known and a sens= e=20 of social stigma, those that risked zzonga use would keep it low key. Dan Said: <> Oh come on Dan...nothing like a good drug binge to lighten the downtrodden=20 spirits. Feeling blue...have some barbiturates. :-) But seriously...addictio= n=20 comes in many shapes and forms. Ted Nugent, the "motor city madman", did not= =20 mess with drugs but instead was addicted to the stage and the female=20 groupies. I would imagine that Alpher mage would be addicted to the powers=20 they possessed and manipulated. Dan Again: <> The disunity, rivalries, arrogance, and social spheres are what I stressed i= n=20 dealing with the high power alpher mages. I know just how big an impact a=20 power PC/NPC can have on a game campaign. So 1000 of them would really stir=20 things up. In my defunct campaign PCs were usually retired into NPC-dom once= =20 they got too high. This was done out of power balance and to allow the=20 players to focus on newer characters. I still do this in Asheron's Call. Not= =20 all campaigns can be engineered to provide suitable challenges to 36th lvl=20 PCs. We tried to shift towards political, social, and business type role=20 playing to deepen the setting and keep these guys active, but we never got=20 far into it as we shifted to lower level characters. I was looking over the DotE materials and saw these tidbits. There was a=20 quote that i wanted to use from DDA series but unfortunately I cannot seem t= o=20 locate it at present. "Great proportions of the populationbecame addicted to the zzonga fruit,=20 which could reduce a mighty mage to tranquilized contentment for days. As=20 more of the populace became addicted to zzonga, the remaining mages had to=20 work harder to keep the empire together and grew resentful of their=20 zzonga-drugged colleagues." -DotE Book 3 page 4.=20 This passage establishes the known detrimental affects of zzonga and lays ou= t=20 the duration of lethargy, days while on a zzonga drunk. It also cites the=20 resentment the mages held for zzonga. "The mighty zzonga-fruit, too, had survived the death of the homeworld.=20 Originally, one family had brought the fruit to this world"...[skipped=20 background info]...In the early centuries of this Second Alphatian Empire,=20 the emperoros tried to stamp out the presence of the zzonga-fruit, but were=20 never quite successful. Later, as Kerothar's Clan fell into decline, one of=20 its emperors permitted the zzonga-growers to operate undisturbed-but taxed=20 the sale of zzonga products to benefit the imperial treasury. Now, the zzong= a=20 trade thrived again....and by the ninth century of the Second Empire, the=20 fruit was again taking its toll on civilization." -DotE Book 3 page 6.=20 Once again recognition of the detrimental affects are shown. Also included=20 are official actions taken against the zzonga trade in a M-War On Drugs.=20 Unsuccessful, the declining rulership tried to claim a quasi-victory by=20 legalizing it and taxing it. Without the law on their tails, zzonga peddlers= =20 expand. So there was some limiting done by the empire. Finally, this=20 unchecked expansion brought about a replay of the Alphers leading up to the=20 Alpher Civil War....which culminated in the sorry condition of the Alpher=20 military, government, and domestic situations in the first conquest of the=20 Thytian tribes. "In the decades after the war, Alphas VI and the Grand Council set the Empir= e=20 on a schedule of rebuilding. They imposed fierce penalties for wizards who=20 performed official acts of rulership, judgement, or government service while= =20 under the influence of zzonga-fruit; they turned their attentions of their=20 magics to rebuilding agriculture and trade; they purged the military of the=20 incompetent and addicted." -DotE Book 3 page 7.=20 By this, the Emperor and GC worked together to rebuild the empire. Most of=20 its shortcomings being the result of zzonga and mismanagement. The emperor=20 and GC moved to address these issues, taking actions together. IMO if the GC= =20 was so tainted then the GC would not act against itself. However, you have=20 the GC acted in unity on a matter, quite remarkable IMO. The DDA quote dealt with the Alpher mage chick that was screwing the=20 adventure's antagonist, the Senator. Since I don't have that module handy=20 I'll adlib with a bit about how we used her IMC. When we played the adventur= e=20 out, we had her being hiding out in Thyatis due to her affinity for zzonga a= s=20 well as her establishing zzonga dens in Thyatis. This affinity grew to=20 addiction as she grew bored and depressed in Thy, afterall she was among=20 "barbarians" and as an Alphatian could not exactly mingle freely among them=20 or their social circles. So she went from a pusher to a user, a cardinal sin= =20 for a drug dealer. Dave Said: <> The addict in DDA1 is mentioned in the previous passage. The M1 addicts are=20 understandable.....they are the left behinds of the Alphatian migration.=20 Given the nature of the Homeland and surrounding territories, I would be=20 depressed enough to hit the M-hashpipe. I would point out that the real=20 combatant Alphers werew not dopers, so you almost have a repeat of the masse= s=20 getting zzonga-ed up while the straight shooters take care of business. Anyway...as far as the addictive prpoerties, I am merely going with what is=20 given in DotE. However, I would admit that zzonga could be mentally=20 addictive...like pot. Dave Continued With: <> This is what I am talking about in diluting the GC. While there may not seem= =20 like a big difference between a lvl 33 and a lvl 36 mage, there is. Not only= =20 is spell memorization expanded, there is also the a distinction between bein= g=20 a powerful lvl 33 and an archmage at lvl 36. An archmage is the elite of the= =20 magely profession, attaining true mastery of the craft. That mastery raises=20 an archmage above a mid level mage toting a bunch of spell scrolls. Mages are the hardest PCs/NPCs to play well. When I DMed my favorite aspect=20 was when the PCs came to blows against a mage. More times than one, a=20 relatively low level mage did horrific damage to a party of experienced PCs.= =20 I once wiped out the party with a lich. Mage duels are fun too, bringing the= =20 art of spellcasting to a fine art. In Asheron's Call, I am currently buildin= g=20 a four school mage for duels....a future Allegiance PK Enforcer for those=20 familiar with AC.=20 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 08:26:49 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: ramhog Subject: Re: Speaking of getting to 36th level... In-Reply-To: <3B611543.A8A34C48@tin.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > Viktor von Hendriks- >> Sooner or later, Thyatis WILL be mine! >> -- > >I rather doubt it. How many chances do you have to marry Prince Coltius? >8-) > BAH! Viktor von Hendricks Fort Doom, Karameikos (currently hurling backward through time) -- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 08:36:23 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: John Calvin Subject: More ESDs will be out soon? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I just thought it would be interesting to share this. It comes as a surprise to me since I heard that "Mystara" was on the backburner, but it appears that a lot of OD&D material has already been scanned and sent on to WotC. Looks like we are scheduled to see the stuff in the online store coming up in September and October. Perhaps what they meant was all of the 2ed Mystara materials were on the backburner? Well, I'm impressed. If you're looking to get your hands on a copy of any of the early Bs, you might want to wait another 2 months... Of course the only one they don't have scheduled yet is B10 :( but something is better than nothing (especially since I don't have any of the Bs at present). Check it out. http://www.bastionpress.com/Schedule072701.pdf __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 09:33:41 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "David S. Leland" Subject: Re: Zzonga (various) In-Reply-To: <95.dfb7680.2892c11b@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I'm just here to pick nits off-topic :) Well, ok, I also had a couple of zzonga-in-the-water-supply adventure ideas to share. At 06:05 AM 7/27/01, Alex wrote: >I would also point out that the real world War On Drugs has shifted from >direct assaults on the source and jailing of users to education and treatment. Unfortunately, I don't think this is a fair statement overall. For instance, the U.S. Office of National Drug Control Policy continues to spend 2/3 of its drug control budget on law enforcement and interdiction efforts. This budget has climbed from $101 million in 1972 to $17 billion in 2000. More than 80% of the increase in the federal prison population from 1985 to 1995 is due to drug convictions, mostly for drug possession. About $8.6 billion are spent per year to keep drug offenders in prison, and that's not part of the $17 billion ONDCP budget--that comes from states, other federal funds, etc. Most politicians continue to call for more funds and more direct assault methods, with a few exceptions, of course. >Oh come on Dan...nothing like a good drug binge to lighten the downtrodden >spirits. Feeling blue...have some barbiturates. :-) I wouldn't recommend barbiturates for depression, since they're sedatives, and not especially safe ones at that. :) Then again, I'm sure it happens. Two on-topic potential adventure ideas: 1) Someone plans an assault on a well-defended town/city. They somehow start introducing zzonga extract into the water supply, not enough to totally drug everyone, but enough to erode their military readiness so the assailants have an advantage. Some people, being more sensitive to zzonga effects, get more intense effects from drinking the water, which leads to an investigation by the PCs ultimately revealing the plot and hopefully with them doing something to stave off the invasion. 2) Similar to 1) but in this case an evil ruler or a town/village whatever employs the zzonga in the drinking water to mollify the subjects, who are treated poorly and have to work very hard (much like the lowest castes in India being allowed to drink bhang, a marijuana tea, but in this case without their knowledge). PCs have to discover why the people are putting up with various abuses and ultimately confront the zzonga plot and the ruler. Magus Coeruleus ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:09:43 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: More ESDs will be out soon? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable When will any of these be available in Canada? I don't understand all this = copyright problems. I know because it is a foreign market. What does that = mean. First of all, being a writer, there are only two copyrights you need = to worry about, Foreign copyrights and North American Copyrights. last = time I checked I think Canada was in North America, but then again, I = could be wrong. :) JK Wolf=20 >>> chimpman.geo@YAHOO.COM 07/27/01 08:36AM >>> I just thought it would be interesting to share this. It comes as a = surprise to me since I heard that "Mystara" was on the backburner, but it appears = that a lot of OD&D material has already been scanned and sent on to WotC. Looks = like we are scheduled to see the stuff in the online store coming up in = September and October. Perhaps what they meant was all of the 2ed Mystara materials were on the backburner? Well, I'm impressed. If you're looking to get your hands on = a copy of any of the early Bs, you might want to wait another 2 months... = Of course the only one they don't have scheduled yet is B10 :( but something = is better than nothing (especially since I don't have any of the Bs at = present). Check it out. http://www.bastionpress.com/Schedule072701.pdf=20 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/=20 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp=20 The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/=20 To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 11:46:07 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dave Keyser Organization: Palmchip Subject: Re: Zzonga (various) & Council MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alex Benson wrote: > > The DDA quote dealt with the Alpher mage chick that was screwing the > adventure's antagonist, the Senator. Since I don't have that module handy > I'll adlib with a bit about how we used her IMC. When we played the adventure > out, we had her being hiding out in Thyatis due to her affinity for zzonga as > well as her establishing zzonga dens in Thyatis. This affinity grew to > addiction as she grew bored and depressed in Thy, afterall she was among > "barbarians" and as an Alphatian could not exactly mingle freely among them > or their social circles. So she went from a pusher to a user, a cardinal sin > for a drug dealer. > > Dave Said: > < always been that zzonga is very addicting both physically and mentally. Part > of that impression comes from the original appearance of zzonga in the module > M1, and also from the description in the module DDA1. I don't think people > are exaggerating or beefing up the addictive powers of the fruit. DOTE also > mentions in the history times when zzonga addiction becomes a heavy burden > on the Alphatian Empire.>> > > The addict in DDA1 is mentioned in the previous passage. The M1 addicts are > understandable.....they are the left behinds of the Alphatian migration. > Given the nature of the Homeland and surrounding territories, I would be > depressed enough to hit the M-hashpipe. I would point out that the real > combatant Alphers werew not dopers, so you almost have a repeat of the masses > getting zzonga-ed up while the straight shooters take care of business. > Anyway...as far as the addictive prpoerties, I am merely going with what is > given in DotE. However, I would admit that zzonga could be mentally > addictive...like pot. > I know you are going mainly by DOTE, but I draw my conclusion from the three main sources, DOTE, DDA1, and M1. Of these, a paragraph in DDA1 sways me the most that it is physically addicting: page 4 - "Addicts waste all their money acquiring zzonga; and, under its effects, they do not desire to work, and even if forced, cannot work effectively. Even mighty magic-users among them cannot reliably defend themselves with their magic. The life of an addict revolves entirely around his zzonga; it becomes more important than friends, family or even life itself, if by risking it he thinks he may get another dose." This does not strike me as a mere mental addicition, the author of DDA1(John Nephew, head of Atlas Games), seems to be clearly implying that zzonga is a physical as well as a mental addiction. He may not have explicitly stated it, but I think that was his intention. > > Dave Continued With: > watering down canon slightly when it comes to the Council in Alphatia and > the mages on that island on Thyatis. Instead of 36th level, mages are between > 33-36th level in both instances. 33rd level was enough to cast wish in the > old Masters book(if you had an 18 int), so that makes it a concrete method > to determine who are the most powerful mages.>> > > This is what I am talking about in diluting the GC. While there may not seem > like a big difference between a lvl 33 and a lvl 36 mage, there is. Not only > is spell memorization expanded, there is also the a distinction between being > a powerful lvl 33 and an archmage at lvl 36. An archmage is the elite of the > magely profession, attaining true mastery of the craft. That mastery raises > an archmage above a mid level mage toting a bunch of spell scrolls. Hey, I admit that I am watering things down, but how much of a difference is there between a level 33 and level 36 wizard? Saving throws are the same, average difference in hit points is 3, both have the same hit vs AC capabilities. Yes, a level 36 mage can cast 81 spells a day, 9 for each spell level, and that is the maximum anyone can do, but is that the only criteria to measure a wizard's power? By volume? I don't have the Cyclopedia in front of me, but I would guess that a level 33 mage would be able to cast somewhere in the range of low 70's # of spells per day. But there are other ways to judge just how much a mage has mastered his craft. What about the number of different spells in one's spellbook? Surely there are some 33rd level mages that have a greater number of spells in their spellbook than some 36th level mages. And what about a level 33 int 18 mage who knows wish versus a level 36 int 17 mage who can't cast wish. What if the test for who has greater mastery over magic was to see how much(or how powerful, or how creative, or whatever) one can do just by casting one spell. The guy who knows wish is going to have the advantage and win such a contest more often. By making the Council levels 33-36, I have watered things down, but not by that much. Probably not enough for most people who are bothered by it in the first place. Dave Keyser PS: Having second thoughts about saving throws and hit tables, do mages max out on saving throws and the hit table at level 33 or level 34? Anyone with a Cyclopedia in front of them? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 15:38:09 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Brendan Corliss Subject: Re: More ESDs will be out soon? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Joe Kelly wrote: > When will any of these be available in Canada? I > don't understand all this copyright problems. I know > because it is a foreign market. What does that mean. > First of all, being a writer, there are only two > copyrights you need to worry about, Foreign > copyrights and North American Copyrights. last time > I checked I think Canada was in North America, but > then again, I could be wrong. :) > JK Wolf I'm not sure of all the subtleties involved, but I know that the "information age" has all but trashed the traditional concept of copyright. My (limited) understanding of how copyrights work with electronic media is that it is inconsistent from country to country. Even if most countries agree on the spirit of the law, I think there is a great deal of discrepency when it comes to interpretation and enforcement. Keep in mind that the whole concept of e-commerce is still in it's infancy... especially when applied to an intangible product. Honestly, Wizards really has nothing to gain by limiting the availabilty of their product arbitrarily. If and when they decide that it's feasible to make their product available in all markets, I would imagine they will do so. Of course, most of this is just speculation on my part. -Brendan Corliss Corliss Enterprises, Ltd. Darokin City aka Damon Alexander Brown ===== May all your endeavors be Gold! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 20:16:41 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: Zzonga (various) & Council MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Hey, I admit that I am watering things down, but how much of a difference is > there between a level 33 and level 36 wizard? Saving throws are the same, > average difference in hit points is 3, both have the same hit vs AC capabilities. > Yes, a level 36 mage can cast 81 spells a day, 9 for each spell level, and that > is the maximum anyone can do, but is that the only criteria to measure a > wizard's power? By volume? I don't have the Cyclopedia in front of me, but > I would guess that a level 33 mage would be able to cast somewhere in the > range of low 70's # of spells per day. > Yes, at L33 it would be 72 total spells (9-9-9-8-8-8-7-7-7). > But there are other ways to judge just how much a mage has mastered his craft. > What about the number of different spells in one's spellbook? Surely there are > some 33rd level mages that have a greater number of spells in their spellbook > than some 36th level mages. And what about a level 33 int 18 mage who knows > wish versus a level 36 int 17 mage who can't cast wish. What if the test for who > has greater mastery over magic was to see how much(or how powerful, or how > creative, or whatever) one can do just by casting one spell. The guy who knows > wish is going to have the advantage and win such a contest more often. Very valid points. Throw in stuff like secret crafts, spell research an individual mage may have done, etc. and alot of the high levels tend to blur together. > By making the Council levels 33-36, I have watered things down, but not by > that much. Probably not enough for most people who are bothered by it in the > first place. I agree. It seems that more people have "diluted" the GC more than this, which is fine by me. Different campaigns have different power levels and adjusting the GC to fit the campaign is certainly valid. In fact, to not balance the GC to match the game would be worse than having it wield disproportionate power. Basically, if the highest level people anywhere else are say L25, then Alp. should not have 1000 MUs at L36, but maybe 1000 at L25, maybe less, depending on how the DM wants to run it. What should be maintained, is the spirit and intent of the GC, meaning that it should be one of, if not the most, powerful forces on Mystara. My own campaign is high-level, and I think 1000 GC'ers is fine, but I'm not convinced that having them all L36 makes sense for me. These discussions are helping me to come up with a decision, though. > PS: Having second thoughts about saving throws and hit tables, do mages max > out on saving throws and the hit table at level 33 or level 34? Anyone with > a Cyclopedia in front of them? L33-36 for saves, 31-35 THAC0=3, and at L36 =2 (but also need a 2 to hit AC -1, so hit prob. improves by 2). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 20:50:14 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: Zzonga (various) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <> Alex said: Yes, my campaign is pretty focused on politics, military conflicts, dominion rulership, and stuff like that. The high level PCs are challenged by many things besides battles, and they are in effect semi-retired. But instead of them being NPCs, the players still dictate what they do. For example, the 3 PC rulers in Norwold, were pretty much together on not commiting their resources to an all out war vs. Thyatis during WotI. They have their own stuff going on, so they pretty much steered clear of this entanglement. One did lead a tour of duty on the IoD which lead to the siege at Redstone, and they together were able to stave off the SE invasion of Alfheim (for now). But having the PCs make these kind of "national policy" decisions works for me. I also have a sub-campaign from this that is in the HW, and a "next generation" campaign with the high-level PCs serving the function of NPCs in typical campaigns. Currently the Next Gen group is exploring the borderlands of a PC dominion that is having trouble with humanoid incursions, while also searching for magic components for the same high-level PC. One of them is secretly being groomed as the PCs successor as defined in the Epic Hero quest for Immortality, and some of the others are the children of the original PCs opening the way for the path of the Dynast. Unfortunately, with all of this stuff happening it moves in slow motion! [snip quotes from DotE] Alex cont: Yes, but the fact that the GC acted would probably mean that the majority sided with the Emperor and put the plan into effect. Much like saying that Congress and the President put a plan in motion, in which case it is unlikely that the Congress would be unanimous in its decision, even if their were a mandate. All I'm saying is that some percentage of the GC would have likely been zzonga'd, especially since the GC reacts so decisively. If a significant minority were out of it on zzonga, then this would wake up the rest of them and force them to deal with the issue. Otherwise, the zzonga problem described probably wouldn't hit home quite so hard. I sounds like it is at least that addictive, possibly more so. It depends how you want to implement it IYC, I guess. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 22:38:01 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: More ESDs will be out soon? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, 27 Jul 2001 15:38:09 -0700 Brendan Corliss writes: > Honestly, Wizards really has nothing to gain by > limiting the availabilty of their product arbitrarily. > If and when they decide that it's feasible to make > their product available in all markets, I would > imagine they will do so. I can't recall where I saw this, but I believe the problem is that TSR/WotC sells foreign distribution/publication rights to other companies. Therefore, they can't legally sell things in those countries except through those companies. Like I said, I don't recall where I saw this, but it sounds plausible to me... Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/anowack/ ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 20:29:37 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Sharing Ideas (was: The Fall of Alfheim) On Thu, 26 Jul 2001 22:54:01 -0400, Dan Eustace wrote: >[snip] >> > Personally I would be interested in seeing more of >> >this on the MML. I think it is fun to swap stories and such. >> > >> >> I agree. I guess most of us could post more stuff from our various >> campaigns, I certainly know that I could, but with little feedback, it's >> difficult to know if anyone out there is reading mails like that and >liking >> it, or whether they are just too polite to tell you that you're just >> cluttering up the list... > >That's why I sent the response. And it was very much appreciated. Thank you. > To make the point that I don't think that >it clutters the list, and to keep it up. I agree that feedback on campaigns >is usually next to none, and that I usually interpret that as disinterest. This is not the case only for descriptions for someone's campaign, though. I've wrote articles for the three last Tomes of Mystara, yet no feedback so far. But then I can't complain about it because I don't get around to reading and commenting on other people's stuff either. Geoff Gander and James Ruhland wrote an article in the last Tome about secret organizations on Mystara that looks really interesting, but I just can't seem to find the time to go through, even though it seems very interesting... So I can scarcely blame other people for having just the same problem. >There's alot of people on the list with lots of different ideas, so I'm sure >that some of them find it interesting, and some don't. The same goes for >any of the other topics. Some I am interested in, and some I'm not, but >they all have their place and their share of fans. True, obviously. > I find that stories from >campaigns can spark adventure ideas and help to put things in context more >than just plain stats and rules. > I agree. I often end up doing the same. Frequently, it's not just that you copy somebody else's idea, but their description gives you other ideas so good you just *have* to do it in your campaign! That has happened for me a few times... - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 11:15:16 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Caroletti Subject: Re: Sharing Ideas (was: The Fall of Alfheim) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Stalker and Dan Eustace had this thoughtsharing: > > To make the point that I don't think that > >it clutters the list, and to keep it up. I agree that feedback on > campaigns > >is usually next to none, and that I usually interpret that as disinterest. > > This is not the case only for descriptions for someone's campaign, though. > I've wrote articles for the three last Tomes of Mystara, yet no feedback so > far. But then I can't complain about it because I don't get around to > reading and commenting on other people's stuff either. Geoff Gander and > James Ruhland wrote an article in the last Tome about secret organizations > on Mystara that looks really interesting, but I just can't seem to find the > time to go through, even though it seems very interesting... So I can > scarcely blame other people for having just the same problem. Yes, it's really true. I have so little time, because of all Real World Needs (from friends to soccer to university to laundry to D&D gaming to whatever) that I often end up just writing my stuff, saving what I think is interesting and then delete it afterone or two months because I am drowning in articles I'll never read. It's a shame...and I think others are in the same condition (as I don't see any feedback on my own work!). > >There's alot of people on the list with lots of different ideas, so I'm > sure > >that some of them find it interesting, and some don't. The same goes for > >any of the other topics. Some I am interested in, and some I'm not, but > >they all have their place and their share of fans. Well, I must admit, even if the Stalker is Alphatian, that I enjoyed reading his campaign ideas, but I didn't have time to comment to them, and I ended up thinking "Well, should I send a mail telling it was interestin or not?" and I used a week to decide upon that issue......we fighters are slow of mind...8-) Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 11:46:03 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Caroletti Subject: The Fighting Orders of Nentsun - Sacred School of the Southern Cross of Nentsun MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit B. SACRED SCHOOL OF THE SOUTHERN CROSS There are 36 fighting orders subject to the six Masters of the Southern Cross, that are known as the Stars of Nentsun. These orders form the Sacred School of the Southern Cross, protected by the Immortals of Matter and Time, and representing order, continuity through changes and preservation. The Monastery of Nentsun is formed by 36 buildings, forming a circle, each devoted to one of the orders. A large iron gate surrounds the complex, and there is one entrance corresponding to each building: thus the name �Guardians of the 36 Gates of Nentsun� that is given to the Fighters of the School. Thirty of the orders have 10 fighters, for a total of 300 Fighters; the remaining six orders are made only of a Master and of their Heir. The Southern Cross is a lawful school, highly organized. In the central plaza surrounded by the 36 order buildings is the central Temple of Nentsun, where all the Masters have a personal apartament and stay to discuss and direct the School�s activities. Southern Cross Fighter Class: Fighter or Cleric Race: Human (all schools), Half-Elf and Elf (some schools) Requisites: STR 8, INT 10, DX 13, COS 6 Alignment: No chaotic. Weapon proficiencies: a Southern Cross Fighter can become proficient in any weapon he wishes Special Benefits: a Southern Cross Fighter gains automatically the Boxing and Martial Arts proficiencies. However, they learn particular techniques that allow them to fight barehanded at terrific speed and even to use the air vibrations to inflict more damage. This means that they have 2 attacks per round when attacking through Martial Arts or Boxing, and are able to do 1d6 additional points of damage. Each order has also its special attacks. Contrarily to the Bear, all the fighters of the Southern School learn the same techniques: this happens because of the different school philosophy (chaos and creativity of the Bear, order and tradition of the Southern Cross). It�s up to the individual DMs, or players, or Mystaran Mailing List Members to create the 30 sub-schools. The general structure of the Orders should be as follows: each order has 2 minor fighting abilities (gained between levels 1 and 9), 2 appropriated clerical spells (gained between levels 4 and 12), 1 major fighting power (gained around level 15). Like the ones associated with the School of the Bear, the fighting abilities are effective only against unarmored opponents, and can be used only when wearing leather armor (or lighter). Special Hindrances: due to the speed needed to attack with their special techniques, these form of attack may be used only while wearing leather armors or no armor at all. A Southern Cross Fighter that is not a Master or a Heir cannot advance past 16th level (AD&D). A Southern Cross Fighter that leaves the Lands of Nentsun will lose � of his experience points. If he returns back he doesn�t gain the XPs back. This fact is known to the Fighters, who are told so by their teachers during the apprentice years. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 12:53:18 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Sverre Midthjell Subject: Re: Poll: What's your favourite nation? In-Reply-To: <3B5F2B74.C6A2DCC1@tin.it> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > If you want to vote, and you haven't done yet, just e-mail me directly > OR mail to the list (hoping that an Alphatian Death Squad won't be sent > after me because I am harassing the list since I entered it with this > poll... > "Who's our Enema Number One" > "the Mad Poller Scaevola.....Muahhahahahahah") > We won't send any death squads after you for that, but we might do it so that we bring the vote for Thyatis down to 10, bringing Alphatia up to a split 3rd place :-) - Count Mzilikazi of Limn ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 13:27:58 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Caroletti Subject: Re: Poll: What's your favourite nation? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > We won't send any death squads after you for that, but we might do it so > that we bring the vote for Thyatis down to 10, bringing Alphatia up to a > split 3rd place :-) > > - Count Mzilikazi of Limn No need for that. I just received the 11th vote for Alphatia. 8-) Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 13:28:24 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: jason o'brien Subject: Re: More ESDs will be out soon? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit so why can't they set up a link on their site that takes you to the sight of the company in the relative country and allows you to download from there? Mortus. > I can't recall where I saw this, but I believe the problem is that > TSR/WotC sells foreign distribution/publication rights to other > companies. Therefore, they can't legally sell things in those countries > except through those companies. > > Like I said, I don't recall where I saw this, but it sounds plausible to > me... > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message.