========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 14:14:13 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Caroletti Subject: Re: MML Artifacts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Francisco V. Navarro V" wrote: > Hail Mystarans! Hail Archduke! > I found this old article I wrote, basically about these humorous artifacts > were inspired by the discussions among the GPD. Well, humour is an important part of the setting. 8-) > Kit's Mysterious Seat Cushion of Unexplained Arcana > [...] so that a person can sit on controversial issues, especially > about continuity and canon, for indefinite periods of time, until the issue > blows over, the arguing parties lose interest and forget the issue, There is also a cursed Quill, the Quill of Infinite Discussion of James, which has the opposite effect, I think. 8-) > Ditto's Infective Curse of Perpetual and Repetitive Agreement > [...] cumulative 5% chance of passing on the curse to another person every > time > that person agrees with you, and a cumulative -1 penalty to save per person > who agrees with you. Hahahahahahahahaaaahahahaahah ( I hate LOL). Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 14:55:51 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Long Runners] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Havard Faanes wrote: > >Thats a pretty good idea Andy! I used to be a big time ElfQuest fan and I have most of the comics.< > >Other interesting characters could be...< How about Rayek? A Belcadizan elf Psion or Psychic Warrior. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=3D1 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:52:15 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: John Calvin Subject: Working on a Timeline Utility MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi all, I've been toying with an idea about timelines that I thought I would bring up here. We all know how many Mystaran timelines there are (each product has its own) and sometimes it's hard to keep track of them (and all of the inconsistencies that they create). For quite some time now I've been thinking about consolidating them all into perhaps a single html file or something. That idea just never seemed reasonable to me. I came up with something else a few days ago. I have designed a java utility that reads in multiple files and constructs a complete timeline on the fly from them. I'm going to work on it a bit more so that timelines from different sources can be highlighted (or colored) and hidden/shown at will. The nice thing is that each source book will get its own data file so it will be easy to add different sources (even fan created ones) to the complete timeline. All you'll have to do is dump another text file into the specified directory. Well, this is going to be very useful in helping me make Mystaras past (at least seem) consistant. I'm wondering if others would be interested in using something like this. If so, please let me know. John ===== Rule #53. If the beautiful princess that I capture says "I'll never marry you! Never, do you hear me, NEVER!!!", I will say "Oh well" and kill her. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 01:09:12 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Caroletti Subject: Re: Working on a Timeline Utility MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Well, this is going to be very useful in helping me make Mystaras past (at > least seem) consistant. I'm wondering if others would be interested in using > something like this. If so, please let me know. > > John It's not the first time I like one of John's ideas. And I am getting over the edge of sanity in trying to work out a ethnological genealogy on Mystara...so something like this would be very useful. Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 16:31:06 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: Working on a Timeline Utility On Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:52:15 -0700, John Calvin wrote: (snip very familiar description of time line problems...) > >Well, this is going to be very useful in helping me make Mystaras past (at >least seem) consistant. I'm wondering if others would be interested in using >something like this. If so, please let me know. > Are you kidding me!? A utility that puts all those annoying timelines from an infinite number of odd and lost tomes (many of which you don't have...) into one? Of course it's interesting - how can you even ask? ;) Honestly, I think pretty much everyone here would be interested, people just haven't responded because the MML is dead at the moment. Is there a priest on the List? Could we have one "Resurrection" to go, please? :) IIRC, someone already did write a fairly huge list which may be found in the Vaults, but it's a few years old by now, I think. - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 16:57:14 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Working on a Timeline Utility Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think it would be an awesome idea. Especially if you incorporate some of = the non cannon stuff, but that could be a mind bending configuration I = wouldn't wish on anybody. But if you did I would definitely find it = useful. :) >>> alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM 08/01/01 04:31PM >>> On Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:52:15 -0700, John Calvin wrote: (snip very familiar description of time line problems...) > >Well, this is going to be very useful in helping me make Mystaras past = (at >least seem) consistant. I'm wondering if others would be interested in using >something like this. If so, please let me know. > Are you kidding me!? A utility that puts all those annoying timelines from an infinite number of odd and lost tomes (many of which you don't have...) into one? Of course it's interesting - how can you even ask? ;) Honestly, I think pretty much everyone here would be interested, people just haven't responded because the MML is dead at the moment. Is there a priest on the List? Could we have one "Resurrection" to go, please? :) IIRC, someone already did write a fairly huge list which may be found in the Vaults, but it's a few years old by now, I think. - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp=20 The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/=20 To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 17:58:49 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "Rodney E. Barnes" Organization: The Christian Gamers Guild Subject: [RULES] HackMaster MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has anyone toyed with the notion of running Mystara under the new = HackMaster rules? They are a complete overall of the 1st Editions AD&D = rules, and they did a wonderful job of not only "fixing" 1st edition, = but in also capturing the "spirit' of the game as well. "Pastor" Rodney E. Barnes M.Div. (aka.The Game Master) Author of Claymore! and President of the Christian Gamers Guild CGG Page Home Page CGG Mail List Claymore Mail List "The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the = LORD." -Proverbs 16:33 KJV ICQ: 1358827 AIM: TheGameMas YIM: commandersozo MSN: TheGameMaster Pursuant to U.S. code, title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II,=20 Section 227, any and all unsolicited commercial E-mail sent=20 to this address is subject to a fee of $500.00 U.S. E-Mailing denotes = acceptance of these terms. Consult = for details. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 21:50:07 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Working on a Timeline Utility In-Reply-To: <20010801205215.2538.qmail@web14207.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Now that is a great idea, what program is this? Can I get it too? I have other information to add hodge podge together like the timeline. (Like a Gazetteer of the Known World) > -----Original Message----- > From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] On > Behalf Of John Calvin > > Hi all, > > I've been toying with an idea about timelines that I thought I would bring > up > here. We all know how many Mystaran timelines there are (each product has > its > own) and sometimes it's hard to keep track of them (and all of the > inconsistencies that they create). For quite some time now I've been > thinking > about consolidating them all into perhaps a single html file or something. > That idea just never seemed reasonable to me. > I came up with something else a few days ago. I have designed a java > utility > that reads in multiple files and constructs a complete timeline on the fly > from > them. I'm going to work on it a bit more so that timelines from different > sources can be highlighted (or colored) and hidden/shown at will. The > nice > thing is that each source book will get its own data file so it will be > easy to > add different sources (even fan created ones) to the complete timeline. > All > you'll have to do is dump another text file into the specified directory. > > Well, this is going to be very useful in helping me make Mystaras past (at > least seem) consistant. I'm wondering if others would be interested in > using > something like this. If so, please let me know. > > John > > ===== > Rule #53. > If the beautiful princess that I capture says "I'll never marry you! > Never, > do you hear me, NEVER!!!", I will say "Oh well" and kill her. > > from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 21:54:57 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: [RULES] HackMaster In-Reply-To: <003d01c11aee$4a873c80$0200a8c0@avatar> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No, I haven't. But my Tuesday night gamer's probably wish I did (they have been talking about it non-stop for the last 2 weeks). > -----Original Message----- > From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] On > Behalf Of Rodney E. Barnes > > Has anyone toyed with the notion of running Mystara under the new > HackMaster rules? They are a complete overall of the 1st Editions AD&D > rules, and they did a wonderful job of not only "fixing" 1st edition, but > in also capturing the "spirit' of the game as well. > > "Pastor" Rodney E. Barnes M.Div. (aka.The Game Master) > Author of Claymore! and President of the Christian Gamers Guild > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 21:36:45 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Mike Harvey Subject: Re: Working on a Timeline Utility In-Reply-To: <20010801205215.2538.qmail@web14207.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT John Calvin wrote: > I came up with something else a few days ago. I have designed a java utility > that reads in multiple files and constructs a complete timeline on the fly from > them. Heh, I'd been thinking about exactly the same thing (a timeline program, in Java no less) but haven't had the time or energy to devote to it. Yesterday I almost sat down and started coding, but had other things to do. I'd be happy to let you do the work though. :-P Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Harvey gm@dsl-only.net (formerly bing@iccom.com) http://members.dsl-only.net/~bing/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 21:51:45 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Working on a Timeline Utility MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'll try and answer several questions here, so I'm going to cut and paste from a couple of different posts: >> >Well, this is going to be very useful in helping me make Mystaras past (at >least seem) consistant. I'm wondering if others would be interested in using >something like this. If so, please let me know. Are you kidding me!? A utility that puts all those annoying timelines from an infinite number of odd and lost tomes (many of which you don't have...) into one? Of course it's interesting - how can you even ask? ;) << ;) Well it was a redundant question really...I already knew the answer. What I really wanted to know was whether or not anyone would be willing to put in a little time to help me put together all of those 'annoying timelines from an infinite number of odd and lost tomes.' ;) Anyone still enthusiastic??? >> IIRC, someone already did write a fairly huge list which may be found in the Vaults, but it's a few years old by now, I think. << Yeah, I've seen a couple of these things, but who wants to upkeep them? Now maybe we won't have to. >> Now that is a great idea, what program is this? Can I get it too? I have other information to add hodge podge together like the timeline. (Like a Gazetteer of the Known World) << Well, it's a little program that I wrote and that is currently sitting on my computer. It works right now! although it is currently all text based. You feed some text files into it and it spits out one concatenated (and correctly ordered) version. I'd like to add a nice graphical user interface over the next couple of days/weeks to make it nicer to use though, and I probably won't release it until that's finished (unless someone really *really* wants it now - trust me, you don't). ;) Anyway it is written in Java, which has its good and bad points. For those of you unfamiliar with Java, in order to run the program you will need what's called a JRE (or Java Runtime Envirenment). It's a free download (of about 5 or 6 megs) - I will provide links later - so that's not so bad. The good point is that once you have the appropriate JRE you can run it on any platform - PC, Linux/Unix, or Mac. >> I think it would be an awesome idea. Especially if you incorporate some of the non cannon stuff, but that could be a mind bending configuration I wouldn't wish on anybody. But if you did I would definitely find it useful. :) << Fear not! This is exactly what I intended! In fact it already works. So this is what happenes: There exists a directory somewhere that the program has access to. In the directory are all the timeline files. There should be a seperate file for each source, so Gaz1 gets its own file, as does Gaz2, 3, 4... the HWAs all get a file to their own, etc, etc. If you happen to see a 'non-canon' web timeline that you would like to incorporate, simply create another file (web timelines are nice because I think we can mostly just cut and paste here) and then drop it into the directory. The next time the program runs it will incorporate the new timeline into the master list. It might be nice to set up a repository of these timelines on the web somewhere (I wonder where ;) ) so that we could all share our 'IMC' timelines. Ok, I've blathered on long enough. I'll try and make a working program available this weekend. Oh... by the way, what the heck should I call this thing? It kinda needs a name... :) John ===== Rule #53. If the beautiful princess that I capture says "I'll never marry you! Never, do you hear me, NEVER!!!", I will say "Oh well" and kill her. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 21:54:58 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Working on a Timeline Utility MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> Heh, I'd been thinking about exactly the same thing (a timeline program, in Java no less) but haven't had the time or energy to devote to it. Yesterday I almost sat down and started coding, but had other things to do. I'd be happy to let you do the work though. :-P << :P You're welcome to some source code if you want it. Most of the work though will be in preparing all of the timeline text files. There's no way I'll be able to do that myself, even if I wanted to. John ===== Rule #53. If the beautiful princess that I capture says "I'll never marry you! Never, do you hear me, NEVER!!!", I will say "Oh well" and kill her. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 02:35:01 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Herve Musseau Subject: timeline program MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I was wondering, why don't you make your timeline appli a timeline servlet instead? I'm sure someone out there has a website with tomcat, so we'd have an online Mystara timeline with all the functionalities you programmed, and that can be updated by uploading new files to a directory on that site (could be a restricted access, or if you program a nice interface there can be an upload section with the servlet parsing the uploaded file, saying whether it's okay or badly formatted, then adds it to its list - the webmaster could manually delete files that passed the parser but are deemed not okay for some other reason). ===== ___________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau http://www.geocities.com/hmusseau/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 07:24:27 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Working on a Timeline Utility In-Reply-To: <20010802045145.43686.qmail@web14204.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > -----Original Message----- > From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] On > Behalf Of John Calvin > > I'll try and answer several questions here, so I'm going to cut and paste > from > a couple of different posts: > > >> snip > << > > ;) Well it was a redundant question really...I > already > knew the answer. What I really wanted to know was whether or not anyone > would > be willing to put in a little time to help me put together all of those > 'annoying timelines from an infinite number of odd and lost tomes.' ;) > Anyone > still enthusiastic??? > I will do what I can, tell me where to start. > > Oh... by the way, what the heck should I call this thing? It kinda needs > a > name... :) > How about the Great Warped Time Generator... Let's do the time warp again... Or the Mystaran Time Generation Artifact (make sure you post the handicap/penalties for use though) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 06:11:41 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: III Subject: Paladin Thoughts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was reading through Bruce Heard's timeline for the Heldannic Knights the other day and came across a dilema. The Bruce introduces the Pathfinders, and order of Paladins of Vanya. What is the general consensus about non-Lawful Immortals having Paladin followers? Or for the 3e folks, do you allow Paladins of Immortals who aren't Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral, or Neutral Good? If an Immmortal doesn't have Lawful Good clerics, it stands to reason that they shouldn't have Paladin followers either. Any thoughts? Andy Morrow _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:22:33 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Web Warlock Subject: Re: Working on a Timeline Utility In-Reply-To: <20010801205215.2538.qmail@web14207.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have collected over the years a Mystara timeline in Excel. I have sent it out to people before. I don't remember where I got all of teh information, but I dont have to, it is all referenced in my Excel file. Now there are two problems with it. Both to do with my world. 1. I merged it with my Greyhawk timeline, basing it on the assumption that the Blackmoors of each "world" are the same. 2. It also includes my "Holy Lands of Glantri" future timeline, set about 300 years in Mystara's future. If you want it, you are more than welcome to it. It is in Excel 97/2000 format. Warlock. -- Web Warlock, webwarlock@earthlink.net webwarlock@planetadnd.com Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks The Other Side: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock The DnD Community Council: http://www.dndcommunitycouncil.org/~nbownw -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of John Calvin Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 3:52 PM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: [MYSTARA] Working on a Timeline Utility <> ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 10:48:34 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Paladin Thoughts] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable III wrote: > What is the general consensus about non-Lawful Immortals having Paladin >followers? Or for the 3e folks, do you allow Paladins of Immortals who aren't Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral, or Neutral Good? If an Immmortal doesn't have Lawful Good clerics, it stands to reason that they shouldn't= have Paladin followers either.< As far as 3E goes, there are a couple of non-Lawful gods who have Paladin= s- Chauntea the Earthmother (Neutral Good), and Sune (Chaotic Good) both hav= e paladin followers. The FRCS makes the only requirement to have paladins t= hat the deity be either Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral, or Neutral Good (again, = with the exception of Sune). So there is precedent for it under 3E rules (at l= east, optional campaign settings). Myself, I don't personally feel that paladins need be Good. Lawful, yes- = for the doctrines of their beliefs require them to serve a specific set of guidelines, rules, etc. But I allow for Lawful Good and Lawful Evil palad= ins- champions of their respective faiths. I see the paladin's Lawfulness comi= ng more from the particular method in which he chooses to follow/practice hi= s faith, and less as a result of his deity's inclinations. For example, Tha= natos might be chaotically inclined by his own principles, but a paladin of Tha= natos would be Lawful Evil (he has a distinct set of codes and principles by wh= ich he practices his faith to Thanatos, and by which he executes Thanatos' wi= ll). Did I make myself clear? I'm not sure I did... ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=3D1 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 07:51:52 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Day of Dread Comments: To: MYSTARA-L@.WIZARDS.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have a dilemma in my campaign. Apparently according to cannon, During = the day of dread or week without magic, those who live by magical means, = age up and die. This creates a big problem for my campaign. The problem is = Lord Nightbay of the Skull Legions is a mortal wizard, who upon drinking a = immortality potion is beyond his normal years. His Inner Council consists = of three vampire lords, Lord von Zarovich, Lady Myrra, and Morphail = Gorevitch-Woszlany. Ok, so Nightbay dies, do the vampire lords die too? If = not, the three undead compete with one another constantly to prove to = Nightbay how loyal they all are. But Now he's dead. If they don't die too, = none of them are going to spend a limited wish spell on him to bring him = back cause they all want his power anyways. this is bad news for the Skull = Legions, as this could end up in a civil war across all 14 Gaz nations = amongst the Skull Legions. What about Liches? are they affected too? Do = they die as well? Any suggestions or solutions would be very helpful. As = for Strahd, Nightbay wrenched him away from the Ravenloft world, as well = as Soth and Kitiara who along with Verminaard are his personal bodyguards. = Needless to say, he is very powerful, but I can't see nothing but a = chaotic Inner civil war. Geesh! As I said, any suggestions and how to a) = deal with this or b) prevent this would be helpful. Thanks! JK Wolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 08:10:32 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: John Calvin Subject: Re: timeline program MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> I was wondering, why don't you make your timeline appli a timeline servlet instead? I'm sure someone out there has a website with tomcat, so we'd have an online Mystara timeline with all the functionalities you programmed, and that can be updated by uploading new files to a directory on that site (could be a restricted access, or if you program a nice interface there can be an upload section with the servlet parsing the uploaded file, saying whether it's okay or badly formatted, then adds it to its list - the webmaster could manually delete files that passed the parser but are deemed not okay for some other reason). << This can certainly be done. There are more issues to dealing with an applet than there are in dealing with an application - which is why I wanted to start with the application. I figure the less issues I have to deal with the faster the thing will get done. Once I'm happy with the program, revisiting it as an applet shouldn't take too much extra work. So I'm up for the task (perhaps some other java people would like to help... Mike?) but you'll have to wait a bit longer for the applet version. John ===== Rule #53. If the beautiful princess that I capture says "I'll never marry you! Never, do you hear me, NEVER!!!", I will say "Oh well" and kill her. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 08:13:02 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Working on a Timeline Utility MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> I don't remember where I got all of teh information, but I dont have to, it is all referenced in my Excel file. Now there are two problems with it. Both to do with my world. 1. I merged it with my Greyhawk timeline, basing it on the assumption that the Blackmoors of each "world" are the same. 2. It also includes my "Holy Lands of Glantri" future timeline, set about 300 years in Mystara's future. If you want it, you are more than welcome to it. It is in Excel 97/2000 format. << Wow, that would be great! I'm sure it might take some effort to get the data into the format I want, but hey, it's going to be minimal compared to the task of starting from scratch. If you could send it to my personal e-mail, I would be really greatful. chimpman.geo@yahoo.com Thanks alot Warlock. John ===== Rule #53. If the beautiful princess that I capture says "I'll never marry you! Never, do you hear me, NEVER!!!", I will say "Oh well" and kill her. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 08:12:37 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Traps, traps and more traps Comments: To: MYSTARA-L@.WIZARDS.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey all, my favorite traps page is back! So I though I would share it with = you guys. When I printed off the first two books, I had 96 pages of traps = (with about 3-5 traps per page. Well enjoy! Here is the addy: http://www.ddream.com/traps/TrapManager.asp=20 Also, Jason has a plot page as well: http://www.ddream.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 12:01:44 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Paladin Thoughts In-Reply-To: <3610524.996757901991.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, III wrote: > followers? Or for the 3e folks, do you allow Paladins of Immortals who > aren't Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral, or Neutral Good? If an Immmortal > doesn't have Lawful Good clerics, it stands to reason that they shouldn't > have Paladin followers either. This is the problem with the paladin in 3e, and the reason why I don't think it is an appropriate class for Mystara. Mystara is a world where good and evil are relative, they have no basis in the cosmology (which is based on Law/Chaos only). Therefore, there really is no precedent for a "good" Paladin. According to the RC, Paladins must be lawful, and the description surely presents a very "Lawful neutral" picture of a Mystaran Paladin. None of this "help the poor" mantra you read in the 3e PHB, on mystara, it's all about "follow the precepts of the religious order". Also, Mystara has Avengers, which aren't anything like blackguards (From 3e DMG) Avengers are chaotic, and though they have a chance to control undead, they don't _have_ to. And they needen't swear fealty to "evil", just to a chaotic religious order. If anything, on Mystara, Paladins and Avengers should be prestige classes (look at the blackguard progression, and twiddle words around to fit the RC's view on these classes) Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:29:27 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Subject: Re: Day of Dread MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am not going to start a flame war with this. My only suggestion is to DO AWAY WITH THE DAY OF DREAD!!! I have always thought this to be stupidity. Okay, say that on this one day no spells may be cast of any sort. Temporary spells will automatically end. Permanent spells and spell-like conditions go merrily along. With this effect no enchantment would ever last longer than a year. No magic sword would last, no mortal magic of any kind. Unless you are going to say that vampirism is not mortal magic. If vampires survive, then why not others? This issue raised so many problems in a campaign that I ran (including automatically killing off a PC) that I will not even consider doing WOTI in my new campaign! If you want some adverse effect on world magic due to the actions of the Sphere then have a random chance based on spell level, that everytime a spell is cast there is a chance of a random Radiance effect (say 1% per level of the spell) and that the effect could be for (1-3 on a d6) or against (4-6 on a d6) the spell caster. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Kelly" To: Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 9:51 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] Day of Dread I have a dilemma in my campaign. Apparently according to cannon, During the day of dread or week without magic, those who live by magical means, age up and die. This creates a big problem for my campaign. The problem is Lord Nightbay of the Skull Legions is a mortal wizard, who upon drinking a immortality potion is beyond his normal years. His Inner Council consists of three vampire lords, Lord von Zarovich, Lady Myrra, and Morphail Gorevitch-Woszlany. Ok, so Nightbay dies, do the vampire lords die too? If not, the three undead compete with one another constantly to prove to Nightbay how loyal they all are. But Now he's dead. If they don't die too, none of them are going to spend a limited wish spell on him to bring him back cause they all want his power anyways. this is bad news for the Skull Legions, as this could end up in a civil war across all 14 Gaz nations amongst the Skull Legions. What about Liches? are they affected too? Do they die as well? Any suggestions or solutions would be very helpful. As for Strahd, Nightbay wrenched him away from the Ravenloft world, as well as Soth and Kitiara who along with Verminaard are his personal bodyguards. Needless to say, he is very powerful, but I can't see nothing but a chaotic Inner civil war. Geesh! As I said, any suggestions and how to a) deal with this or b) prevent this would be helpful. Thanks! JK Wolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:10:33 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Castille Baromon de Preto Subject: Re: Day of Dread MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > From: Joe Kelly > > I have a dilemma in my campaign. Apparently according to cannon, During the day of dread or week without magic, those who live by magical means, age up and die. If Night-Bay is powerful enough, have him travel out of Mystara. Let him spend a vacation in Ravenloft during the Day of Dread. During the WoTI, the week of no magic, aging effects can be slowly drained (depending on your campaign, this can be accelerated or hindered depending on the power that caused the un-natural life span). Undead, liches, vampires et. will be at their most vulnerable statis. These creatures, along with other highly magical creatures like dragons, will 'fade' or go into a temporal stasis during these times of no magic. IMC I love the Day of Dread, characters in the same boat have to go out of their means to insure their protection. It is a big issue, that they had never dealt with before; and you will be amazed with the things they come up with to ensure their health will not fade during those days. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:17:23 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Web Warlock Subject: Re: Day of Dread In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just so you know. This never happens in "my" Glantri. The Priest-Kings saw to that! ;) Though this does tie in a question I have for Ravenloft fans. I am working on a theory that Barovia, the evil heart of Ravenloft and home to Strahd von Zarovich is originally from Mystara. I'll work on getting my evidence together. Warlock. -- Web Warlock, webwarlock@earthlink.net webwarlock@planetadnd.com Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks The Other Side: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock The DnD Community Council: http://www.dndcommunitycouncil.org/~nbownw -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Joe Kelly Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 9:52 AM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: [MYSTARA] Day of Dread <> ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 12:44:17 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Mike Harvey Subject: Re: Day of Dread MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 That is why I will not be using the Day of Dread in my campaign. Not only does it wreak social havoc, but all those ancient tombs filled with undead are suddenly much less interesting, and all your old wizards are destroyed in a single day. Only an idiot would bother creating an undead army unless he can create the whole thing and achieve his objective within a year, and also has a hiding place to escape to when his army is vaporized on the next DoD and his enemies come looking for him. I imagine there'll be a lot fewer applicants to the Secret Craft of Necromancy. I also wonder how this affects immortal candidates. Some of them must surely use magic to extend their lives while seeking to fulfill their quest, but with the DoD, all applicants must complete their quest within their normal lifespan. Maybe this was TSR's way of "cleaning" some of the magic out of Mystara, but IMO it ruins many aspects of the setting. Mike ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:50:19 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Paladin Thoughts In-Reply-To: <3610524.996757901991.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- III > What is the general consensus about non-Lawful > Immortals having Paladin > followers? Or for the 3e folks, do you allow > Paladins of Immortals who > aren't Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral, or Neutral Good? I think it is a Paladins nature to be lawful. This makes sense game balance-wise aswell, as there should be strict rules for all Paladins. However, WotI introduced the concept of clerics being of a different alignment than their Immortal. So, why not have Lawful Paladins serving Chaotic Immortals? Aslong as their second alignment correspond this should be no problem. IMO ofcourse :) H�vard ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 12:58:02 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Day of Dread Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would be very interested in seeing that evidence! >>> webwarlock@EARTHLINK.NET 08/02/01 11:17AM >>> Just so you know. This never happens in "my" Glantri. The Priest-Kings saw to that! ;) Though this does tie in a question I have for Ravenloft fans. I am = working on a theory that Barovia, the evil heart of Ravenloft and home to Strahd = von Zarovich is originally from Mystara. I'll work on getting my evidence together. Warlock. -- Web Warlock, webwarlock@earthlink.net webwarlock@planetadnd.com=20 Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks The Other Side: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock=20 The DnD Community Council: http://www.dndcommunitycouncil.org/~nbownw=20 -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On=20 Behalf Of Joe Kelly Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 9:52 AM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 Subject: [MYSTARA] Day of Dread <> ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp=20 The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/=20 To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:00:55 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Day of Dread Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well I know what happened to that 1000 or so Alphatian wizards.=20 1) Wizards cast massive spells simultaneously 2) Magic shorts out worldwide 3) Wizards who are floating above Glantri city are now not floating = anymore... 4) Alphatia's wizard total takes a huge drop in population. :0 =20 JK wolf >>> gm@DSL-ONLY.NET 08/02/01 12:44PM >>> That is why I will not be using the Day of Dread in my campaign. Not only does it wreak social havoc, but all those ancient tombs filled with undead are suddenly much less interesting, and all your old wizards are destroyed in a single day. Only an idiot would bother creating an undead army unless he can create the whole thing and achieve his objective within a year, and also has a hiding place to escape to when his army is vaporized on the next DoD and his enemies come looking for him. I imagine there'll be a lot fewer applicants to the Secret Craft of Necromancy. I also wonder how this affects immortal candidates. Some of them must surely use magic to extend their lives while seeking to fulfill their quest, but with the DoD, all applicants must complete their quest within their normal lifespan. Maybe this was TSR's way of "cleaning" some of the magic out of Mystara, but IMO it ruins many aspects of the setting. Mike ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp=20 The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/=20 To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 15:04:45 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Web Warlock Subject: The Complete Netbook of Witches and Warlocks Comments: To: Ravenloft List , Horror List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Everyone, It gives me great pleasure to announce the availability of "Liber Mysterium: The Netbook of Witches and Warlocks" for the d20 Game System. This new netbook is currently in design phase, but we would like to release it to you now. The netbook will have everything you need to play witches, the most mysterious and intriguing spell-casters, in your d20 games. This character class has had a spotty history in FRPGs since the industry began, with Liber Mysterium we hope to define and maintain the gold standard of witches for the d20 game system. Our current draft is 80+ pages and we are only about half done! This product was authored by the Netbook of Witches Team and based on my 2nd Edition "Complete Netbook of Witches and Warlocks" and it is being made available to you, via the Open Gamming License, The DnD Community Council and Shadow-Earth Games completely, and forever, free of charge. This netbook, while still in BETA or draft stages, is fully 100% Open Gamming Content and conforms to the rules and guidelines of the OGL and the d20 System License. If you see any editing, grammar, OGL compliance or playability change that needs to be made please do not hesitate to contact me so they maybe cleared up by our official release date. The netbook is available at our homepage, http://www.rpghost.com/~WebWarlock/, the DnD Community Council�s website at http://www.dndcommunitycouncil.org/ and PlanetADnD, http://www.planetadnd.com/. Thank you and please enjoy this netbook as much as we have enjoyed bringing it to you! Timothy S. Brannan, aka "Web Warlock" Project Leader, The Netbook of Witches and Warlocks Founder, Shadow-Earth Games -- Web Warlock, webwarlock@earthlink.net webwarlock@planetadnd.com Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks The Other Side: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock The DnD Community Council: http://www.dndcommunitycouncil.org/~nbownw ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 22:37:08 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: The Dragon of Dymrak In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This is a follow-up article to the Dymrak Goblins Feedback is very welcome. This article is partly based on the feedback I got from the Goblin-thread earlier. Thanks guys! MIGHTY ARGOS By H�vard Faanes The True Master of the Dymrak Forest is Argos, the green Dragon. The entrance to his lair is reached through the Lake of Lost Dreams, but Argos rarely leaves his den. In Draconic form, that is. Once, he was almost bound to servitude by the dragon Attura, and he vowed never to be so powerless. This lead him to make a pact with the Immortal Orcus. He became a Cleric of Orcus, thus enabling him to cast both clerical and arcane spells. The Demon Prince also granted him the power to take on humanoid shape. Through this power he has managed to infiltrate the court at Penhaligon and is working his way into Karameikan politics. Allies: Argos has also been able to dominate most of the goblin tribes of Dymrak Forest, on both sides of of the Rugalov River. This, he has achieved by forging a magical weapon; the Blood Blade, a sword made of rare Red Steel. Through the aid of his Immortal Patron, Orcus, Argos was able to empower the weapon with intelligence of its own. Argos gave the sword to the goblins and the sword was easily able to dominate a goblin tribe leader. With the aid of this blade the goblins forming the Red Blade Tribe were able to dominate several other Wolf Riding tribes, all who which now serve Argos and revere the Dragon as a god. Some of the goblin tribes still resist domination by the Dragon and have allied themselves with other powers of Dymrak, such as the Hags who live there, but it is only a matter of time before Argos decide to deal with this problem. Enemies: Among Dragons, Argos main rival is Attura, a powerful dragon whom he once tried to mate. The Hags of Dymrak contest with Argos for the domination of the goblin tribes, but Argos feels confident that he can deal with them. Since Argos made the pact with Orcus, his main enemy has become the Seer of the Lake of Lost Dreams. The Seer is an agent of the forces who seek to protect Karameikos against the likes of Argos and his masters and this has actually made it more difficult for Argos to move around. D&D 3E statistics: Adult Green Dragon; HD 20d12+100 (hp 230). Organization 2-5, Size: H, AC 27 (-2 size, 19 natural) Can cast Both Cleric and Mage Spells. Special Ability: Shape change (Man-sized Humanoid form only) This article was based on material from: �Who�s Who Among Dragons, by Bruce Heard (see below) and �The Penhaligion Trilogy,� by DJ Heinrich (I�ve taken the assumption the Verdilith from those books is another name for Argos) Related articles: Who�s Who Among Dragons, by Bruce Heard: http://dnd.starflung.com/whoswho.html Some articles by me: The Dymrak Goblins: http://dnd.starflung.com/dym_gobl.html The Seer of the Lake of Lost Dreams http://dnd.starflung.com/seerlake.html The Witches of Dymrak: http://dnd.starflung.com/witchdym.html ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 14:59:06 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Mike Harvey Subject: Re: The Dragon of Dymrak MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Very nice, I'll have to steal it.. suitably disguised so it won't be spoiled for my players on this list! :-) How many cleric levels does the dragon have? Also, any details on Attura? I assume she is a green dragon as well. Is she living in Karameikos somewhere? Mike ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 15:41:03 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Mike Harvey Subject: Re: Paladin Thoughts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >This is the problem with the paladin in 3e, and the reason why I >don't think it is an appropriate class for Mystara. > >Mystara is a world where good and evil are relative, they have no >basis in the cosmology (which is based on Law/Chaos only). I vehemently disagree. Is Orcus evil? Is Koryis good? Is Orcus still evil when you compare him to Arik? Does Arik's insane desire to destroy the universe _excuse_ Orcus' indiscriminate slaughter? Do two wrongs automagically morph into a wrong and a right, just to satisfy the perceived need for relativity? Lack of knowledge or definition does not constitute non-existence. Neutrons have existed since the world began, even though nobody knew about them until very recently. Good and evil are real, and are assumed in the presentation of Mystara, even if they are not conveniently labeled. Orcus is not good by any definition or viewpoint. Surely the lack of utter insanity does not make you good. I assert that good and evil have always been a part of, and even a theme in Mystara. A subtle and often confusing theme, but they are there. As such, a paladin fits in just fine. The 3e paladin follows a more rigid definition than the BD&D paladin, but that only suggests that other types of paladin probably exist outside this subset. Surely there have been some Mystaran paladins who acted just like the 3e version, and there are Mystaran churches who promote goodness and are interested in helping the poor. It is also true that Mystara has philosopher clerics, who gain their powers from their set of beliefs and not from an Immortal. If such a cleric or paladin believed strongly in goodness, why should they not gain power just like a Law cleric, and why shouldn't they lose that power if they violate their own beliefs? And if you feel that immortals secretly support philosopher clerics, surely there are immortals who would look with favor upon specific deeds and goals, regardless of how they are labeled. A cleric could even be deluded and worship a non-existent immortal, and that would not be essentially different than a philosopher cleric; he still believes strongly in a concept he invented and should gain power for his beliefs. If such a cleric invented a "good" god, even though no such thing exists, why should that be different? You could even transplant the Catholic church onto Mystara, complete with priests and paladins, with a full complement of imaginary celestial/infernal powers, all started by a deluded but fervent philosopher-cleric. So while the 3e paladin may not be the ONLY variety of paladin in Mystara, it is certainly reasonable as a concept and subset of the original. Since this has the potential to turn into a raging firestorm, I won't be making any further posts on this topic. But feel free to post a rebuttal and I promise to read it. :-) Mike ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:51:40 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: The Dragon of Dymrak In-Reply-To: <20010802203708.84338.qmail@web13108.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thanks for this. Truely awesome. [see below for why] > Cleric of Orcus, thus enabling him to cast both > clerical and arcane spells. The Demon Prince also > granted him the power to take on humanoid shape. > Through this power he has managed to infiltrate the > court at Penhaligon and is working his way into > Karameikan politics. I have two groups of PC's, one with a castle near/in Dymark who is currently hunting dragons (although not a green one) and the others have just attained the eye of traldar and will have to get it back to the seer and ensure it doesn't go walkies again. The PC Baron who has been granted all non elven territories of Dymark under his control will be quite pissed off when the goblins become more organized and this Mysterious lord (Argos) keeps butting into everything. Also when the other PC's return the eye they are going to be in for a shock [goblin hordes, dragons chasing them etc...] What I would be interested in is how dragons get beefed up in 3E vs. OD&D. I need tougher dragons. My PC's faced off against two large and a huge and came out way too well off. And I wasn't even being nice. Oh well, they'll be back. Two of the dragons were only wounded and the other taken prisoner. > Allies: > Argos has also been able to dominate most of the > goblin tribes of Dymrak Forest, on both sides of of > the Rugalov River. This, he has achieved by forging > a > magical weapon; the Blood Blade, a sword made of > rare > Red Steel. Through the aid of his Immortal Patron, > Orcus, Argos was able to empower the weapon with > intelligence of its own. Argos gave the sword to the > goblins and the sword was easily able to dominate a > goblin tribe leader. With the aid of this blade the > goblins forming the Red Blade Tribe were able to > dominate several other Wolf Riding tribes, all who > which now serve Argos and revere the Dragon as a > god. > Some of the goblin tribes still resist domination by > the Dragon and have allied themselves with other > powers of Dymrak, such as the Hags who live there, > but > it is only a matter of time before Argos decide to > deal with this problem. I like this weapon. Is it just magical, an artifact or a demi artifact? I could create some stats for it when I find my copy of WotI (it's gone walkies at a friends I think.... agghhhh....) > Enemies: > Among Dragons, Argos main rival is Attura, a > powerful > dragon whom he once tried to mate. Argos to PC's: "So your've been dragon hunting eh? I know where theres a dragon if your'd like...." > The Hags of Dymrak > contest with Argos for the domination of the goblin > tribes, but Argos feels confident that he can deal > with them. "you know there's some *evil* hags that reside in the forest organising the goblins" [I'm not organizing goblins... really] "I'm sure if you got rid of them things would be much easier..." [for Argos that is] > Since Argos made the pact with Orcus, his > main enemy has become the Seer of the Lake of Lost > Dreams. The Seer is an agent of the forces who seek > to > protect Karameikos against the likes of Argos and > his > masters and this has actually made it more difficult > for Argos to move around. "Theres also this crazy wizard, always spying on everyone, I'm sure he can't be trusted. He probally knows all you secrets and is just biding his time till he can get rid of you." "be wary of him for I have heard he is a trickster, and can kill with just a few innocent sounding words. Whatever you do, silence him before he can talk to you or it will be doom" [for me thinks Argos] > D&D 3E statistics: Adult Green Dragon; HD 20d12+100 > (hp 230). Organization 2-5, Size: H, AC 27 (-2 size, > 19 natural) Can cast Both Cleric and Mage Spells. > Special Ability: Shape change (Man-sized Humanoid > form > only) Thats just mean.... I like. What equivilent level cleric and mage is he (ie how many spells of what level and at what level does he cast them) > This article was based on material from: > �Who�s Who Among Dragons, by Bruce Heard (see below) > and �The Penhaligion Trilogy,� by DJ Heinrich (I�ve > taken the assumption the Verdilith from those books > is > another name for Argos) Whos Verdilith and whats he like (I gather he is from the �The Penhaligion Trilogy�) Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 19:19:01 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Subject: Re: The Dragon of Dymrak MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In my campaign Argos has become something of a heroic figure. Why Orcus? That seems odd for a dragon, I would have thought Pearl... George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Havard Faanes" To: Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 3:37 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] The Dragon of Dymrak > This is a follow-up article to the Dymrak Goblins > Feedback is very welcome. This article is partly based > on the feedback I got from the Goblin-thread earlier. > Thanks guys! > > MIGHTY ARGOS > By H�vard Faanes > > The True Master of the Dymrak Forest is Argos, the > green Dragon. The entrance to his lair is reached > through the Lake of Lost Dreams, but Argos rarely > leaves his den. In Draconic form, that is. Once, he > was almost bound to servitude by the dragon Attura, > and he vowed never to be so powerless. This lead him > to make a pact with the Immortal Orcus. He became a > Cleric of Orcus, thus enabling him to cast both > clerical and arcane spells. The Demon Prince also > granted him the power to take on humanoid shape. > Through this power he has managed to infiltrate the > court at Penhaligon and is working his way into > Karameikan politics. > > Allies: > Argos has also been able to dominate most of the > goblin tribes of Dymrak Forest, on both sides of of > the Rugalov River. This, he has achieved by forging a > magical weapon; the Blood Blade, a sword made of rare > Red Steel. Through the aid of his Immortal Patron, > Orcus, Argos was able to empower the weapon with > intelligence of its own. Argos gave the sword to the > goblins and the sword was easily able to dominate a > goblin tribe leader. With the aid of this blade the > goblins forming the Red Blade Tribe were able to > dominate several other Wolf Riding tribes, all who > which now serve Argos and revere the Dragon as a god. > Some of the goblin tribes still resist domination by > the Dragon and have allied themselves with other > powers of Dymrak, such as the Hags who live there, but > it is only a matter of time before Argos decide to > deal with this problem. > > Enemies: > Among Dragons, Argos main rival is Attura, a powerful > dragon whom he once tried to mate. The Hags of Dymrak > contest with Argos for the domination of the goblin > tribes, but Argos feels confident that he can deal > with them. Since Argos made the pact with Orcus, his > main enemy has become the Seer of the Lake of Lost > Dreams. The Seer is an agent of the forces who seek to > protect Karameikos against the likes of Argos and his > masters and this has actually made it more difficult > for Argos to move around. > > D&D 3E statistics: Adult Green Dragon; HD 20d12+100 > (hp 230). Organization 2-5, Size: H, AC 27 (-2 size, > 19 natural) Can cast Both Cleric and Mage Spells. > Special Ability: Shape change (Man-sized Humanoid form > only) > > This article was based on material from: > "Who's Who Among Dragons, by Bruce Heard (see below) > and "The Penhaligion Trilogy," by DJ Heinrich (I've > taken the assumption the Verdilith from those books is > another name for Argos) > > > Related articles: > Who's Who Among Dragons, by Bruce Heard: > http://dnd.starflung.com/whoswho.html > > Some articles by me: > The Dymrak Goblins: > http://dnd.starflung.com/dym_gobl.html > > The Seer of the Lake of Lost Dreams > http://dnd.starflung.com/seerlake.html > > The Witches of Dymrak: > http://dnd.starflung.com/witchdym.html > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:35:09 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Mike Harvey Subject: Re: The Dragon of Dymrak MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >What I would be interested in is how dragons get >beefed up in 3E vs. OD&D. I need tougher dragons. My >PC's faced off against two large and a huge and came >out way too well off. And I wasn't even being nice. Oh >well, they'll be back. Two of the dragons were only >wounded and the other taken prisoner. Three at once? What level are the PCs? 3E dragons are pretty nasty. The Dymrak Dragon should be about right for a 18th level 3E party, allowing for the polymorph ability and adding 5 clerical levels. It would take 32 of these Dymrak Dragons to equal the largest red dragon... Mike ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 19:15:10 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: Day of Dread On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 07:51:52 -0700, Joe Kelly wrote: >I have a dilemma in my campaign. Apparently according to cannon, During the day of dread or week without magic, those who live by magical means, age up and die. This creates a big problem for my campaign. The problem is Lord Nightbay of the Skull Legions is a mortal wizard, who upon drinking a immortality potion is beyond his normal years. His Inner Council consists of three vampire lords, Lord von Zarovich, Lady Myrra, and Morphail Gorevitch-Woszlany. Ok, so Nightbay dies, do the vampire lords die too? If not, the three undead compete with one another constantly to prove to Nightbay how loyal they all are. But Now he's dead. If they don't die too, none of them are going to spend a limited wish spell on him to bring him back cause they all want his power anyways. this is bad news for the Skull Legions, as this could end up in a civil war across all 14 Gaz nations amongst the Skull Legions. What about Liches? are they affected too? Do they die as well? Any suggestions or solutions would be very helpful. As for Strahd, Nightbay wrenched him away from the Ravenloft world, as well as Soth and Kitiara who along with Verminaard are his personal bodyguards. Needless to say, he is very powerful, but I can't see nothing but a chaotic Inner civil war. Geesh! As I said, any suggestions and how to a) deal with this or b) prevent this would be helpful. Thanks! > Yes, I do see your dilemma and it's one I've been considering for some time (we haven't reached the DoD IMC yet, but we're getting closer now...). First of all, I don't think the cancellation of magic applies to undead as such. Like elves and dragons they may be 'weakened' by it, but they won't die for the simple reason that undead never die of old age! Second, I would discount the entire 'People aged by magic are returned to their true age' and simply ignore that entire passage. That's what I intend to do IMC, anyway. Okay, so it's fairly important to the WOTI timeline that Eriadna is killed during the WWM, I don't intend to change that, but I don't need some aging thing for that. I can just as easily claim that the storm over Sundsvall knocked the palace down and with magic not working, Eriadna couldn't escape and was crushed under about 1,000 tons of marble! Who cares if she was aged - dead is dead! And doing it that way solves all those other problems. After all, this aging would have affected all those pesky Alphatian archmages, yet we never that Mylertendal is killed by it, for example, and she's a lot older than Eriadna and Tylion/Terari (over 600 IIRC!). So that would be my advice. Simply ignore the aging thing and suspend all magic for a day (or week). Btw, technically there isn't a Ravenloft world since Ravenloft is a demi- plane. It's a minor point, but Ravenloft being a demi-plane is one of the things that makes it interesting to me, so I couldn't resist the urge to point that out. Hope that's okay. - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 19:31:12 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: Day of Dread On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 12:44:17 -0700, Mike Harvey wrote: >That is why I will not be using the Day of Dread in my campaign. Not >only does it wreak social havoc, but all those ancient tombs filled >with undead are suddenly much less interesting, and all your old >wizards are destroyed in a single day. Only an idiot would bother >creating an undead army unless he can create the whole thing and >achieve his objective within a year, and also has a hiding place to >escape to when his army is vaporized on the next DoD and his enemies >come looking for him. I imagine there'll be a lot fewer applicants to >the Secret Craft of Necromancy. > >I also wonder how this affects immortal candidates. Some of them must >surely use magic to extend their lives while seeking to fulfill their >quest, but with the DoD, all applicants must complete their quest >within their normal lifespan. > >Maybe this was TSR's way of "cleaning" some of the magic out of >Mystara, but IMO it ruins many aspects of the setting. > Well, personally I agree and disagree. If you apply it that strongly, then I agree. I think it also says somewhere that all potions must save or be ruined. This means all potions on Mystara must save to exist from that point on? Every year? Wow, what a disappointment! :( And what about magic items? Same thing? No way, I say! Not IMC! After all, how many potions could be made anew each year and left in dungeons for PCs to find and use? And magic items? It steals from the campaign and I just won't allow that! But otherwise I think the DoD is an interesting twist. Magic failing turns things around rather a lot, so it's a concept which gives the DM lots of peculiar situations and opportunities. To have the DoD IMC, yet not have it destroy Mystara, I'll be treating the DoD simply as a world-spanning Anti-Magic Shell effect. For the duration of the day, no magic can work on Mystara, but magic is not destroyed, merely suspended. Potions, magical items, etc., are fully operational once the DoD ends. In fact, if a spell with duration of several days was cast just prior to the DoD, it would not work on the DoD, but it would resume automatically once the DoD ends, even though the actual day still counts toward the duration of the spell! As I see it, this is because magic *does* work on the DoD, only the Radiance is absorbing all magic at a rate so fast that the energy has been drained before it yields the effect the caster/user intended. The absorbtion-potential of the Radiance is not powerful to affect Immortal magic, however (though it was during the WWM). Flaws in this theory? - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 19:50:59 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: The Dragon of Dymrak MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 22:37:08 +0200, =3D?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=3D20Faanes?=3D wrote: (snip description) I like this. It seems very useful and will do well as background IMC once I get to that point. Thanks for posting it. One thing, though, why would Argos need Orcus as a patron to turn into human form? Verdilith did it in the Penhaligon trilogy, and he didn't seem to have any particular association with Orcus or some other nasty Immortal (but we can never know, of course...) > > >This article was based on material from: >=93Who=92s Who Among Dragons, by Bruce Heard (see below) >and =93The Penhaligion Trilogy,=94 by DJ Heinrich (I=92ve >taken the assumption the Verdilith from those books is >another name for Argos) > Ahem, not to put to fine a point of it, but Johauna Menhir actually killed Verdilith during the story, toward the end of the second book, I think. If you didn't read that bit, I don't blame you, though! The first book ("The Tainted Sword") was okay, particularly the unhappy ending which, even though it was foreshadowed throughout the book, was surprising, yet by the second book ("The Dragon's Tomb"), the story became uninteresting and boring - you simply didn't care whether Johauna and the others succeeded anymore, and by the third book ("The Fall of Magic") you had just given up and didn't care at all anymore... The best thing about the third book was the title, really :( Just IMNSHO... Still, it doesn't matter so much. I'd just have Verdilith be one of Argos' agents, and once Johauna kills him, Argos goes into the field himself. In truth, I think Argos has subdued a number of dragons to serve under him. That's what dragons do, right? - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:05:13 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Tim Roberts Subject: Wendar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone noticed that there is hardly no water in Wendar? At least the map I am looking at has hardly none No Rivers no Large lakes nothing. Does anyone think this is an oversight considering how many woods are in Wendar? Tim aka: Alphaks http://www.mystaranet.com tinman@mystaranet.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 00:18:52 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: Ravenloft (was Day of Dread) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/2/01 10:57:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM writes: > Btw, technically there isn't a Ravenloft world since Ravenloft is a demi- > plane. It's a minor point, but Ravenloft being a demi-plane is one of the > things that makes it interesting to me, so I couldn't resist the urge to > point that out. Hope that's okay. > In the Mystara that I am running there is a Ravenloft...and it is a direct result of the release of energies that destroyed Alphatia. Glantri itself has been half "twisted" and corrupted into another demi plane of existence as a result of meddling with the power of the Heart of Thari-Zahadun (as per a previous post of mine many moons ago...the NOS is actually the "heart" of the imprisoned god Tharizdun). Glantri is, in all but name, Ravenloft. Distances are warped and so are perceptions. Glantri City is relatively safe...so are the main "warded" roads...just watch out for that Mist that comes out of nowhere. :) frog ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:47:33 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: The Dragon of Dymrak In-Reply-To: <4120018531359515@dsl-only.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Three at once? What level are the PCs? All around 10th. Mage, fighter, cleric, elf and thief. They all were invisible. The fighter and thief on a broom of flying, and the Mage, elf and cleric on a magic carpet. They flew into a big well made cave entrance in the mountians in norwold, hunting for dragons. They flew 1/2 a mile into the mountianside, and arrived in a big cave, and I mean huge. Down they traveled to where far below they could see faintly, people moving and working. Here they realized slaves were mining the mountian. and three men were overseeing about 15 slaves. The flew up and wispered in his ear (still invisible) "Hello, I want to talk to someone in charge..." or something to that order. He turned and cast off their invisiblity to their surprise. They were not phased however and continued on insisting to see someone in charge. At this point I had a OD&D huge red dragon matterialize above their heads (from being invisible) "what do you want" he bellowed and half way through their answer he gave in and breathed fire on them. Here the two on the broomstick jumped for it. The slaves and two gaurds had run rather then get flamed, while the other gaurd stood still, and didn't even flinch. This confused the PC's a little. He then Fireballed them. The thief ended his episode here (to be raised later, I have to stop that somehow) while the fighter sprang back into action. The mage and the elf pounced into action casting icestorms on the poor red dragon, inflicting 90 odd points of damage and ending his escapades. The fighter rushed the gaurd who started returning to dragon form to fight (polymorphed large red dragon) and the two combatants started in at each other. At this moment a large red dragon appeared behind the PC's on the carpet as if out of the walls themselves (an illution over a cave opening, I even had the decency to ask the PC's where they were flying so that I wasn't just saying that the opening just happens to be behind you. He knock them off and the PC's somehow managed to land on their feet, recovering fast and kicking some ass until the dragons decided to go for help and cast darkness (to get away). The PC's had a short repreve so teleported home with the huge red's body.... leaving my to plot and scheme. > 3E dragons are pretty nasty. The Dymrak Dragon > should be about right > for a 18th level 3E party, allowing for the > polymorph ability and > adding 5 clerical levels. It would take 32 of these > Dymrak Dragons to > equal the largest red dragon... Where could I find more about this other then in the 3e books. Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 22:50:07 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Mike Harvey Subject: Re: Zzonga (various) & Council In-Reply-To: <3B61B6EF.1C42F4BE@palmchip.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dave Keyser wrote: > Yes, a level 36 mage can cast 81 spells a day, 9 for each spell level, and that > is the maximum anyone can do, but is that the only criteria to measure a > wizard's power? By volume? How about by total number of spell levels? This puts a 35th lvl wizard about about 95% of the power of 36th, and 33rd at about 88%. OTOH, Wish is important, and I'm not sure that merely counting spell levels adequately captures the difference a spell level makes. So, what if we square the spell levels before counting, and also treat the ability to cast Wish as a 10th level spell? That results in 35th being 86% of the power of 36th, and 33rd being 76% as powerful. > I don't have the Cyclopedia in front of me, but > I would guess that a level 33 mage would be able to cast somewhere in the > range of low 70's # of spells per day. 72 > And what about a level 33 int 18 mage who knows > wish versus a level 36 int 17 mage who can't cast wish. You have to be 36th level to cast Wish in the RC, which is what I based my calculation on above. But I would generally alter this with a house rule, and think the old Masters Set at 33rd sounds more reasonable. (Doing this and using weighted levels with Wish at 10th, we get 33rd at 82% power and 35th at 92%. > PS: Having second thoughts about saving throws and hit tables, do mages max > out on saving throws and the hit table at level 33 or level 34? Anyone with > a Cyclopedia in front of them? 33 Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Harvey gm@dsl-only.net (formerly bing@iccom.com) http://members.dsl-only.net/~bing/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 22:58:18 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Mike Harvey Subject: Re: The Dragon of Dymrak In-Reply-To: <20010803044733.5193.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Where could I find more about this other then in the > 3e books. Here's a good place to start: http://www.opengamingfoundation.org/srd.html For info on dragons, look under Monsters (D). Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Harvey gm@dsl-only.net (formerly bing@iccom.com) http://members.dsl-only.net/~bing/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 10:09:59 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: Wendar Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was surprised too. I think that you can assume there are medium sized rivers and lakes but th= at the original canon map (X11) did not show them because of the scale. The presence of so much forested areas tips us about humidity. The other option is to consider that it comes from the very nature of the = soil (limestone), which soaked water.Then assume that the major lakes and = rivers are underground. thibault sarlat Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177 homepage www.mystara.fr.st join me at thibsylv=40club-internet.fr or at clenarius=40hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 02:54:05 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Herve Musseau Subject: timeline utility's name MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii How about Khoronus's Timeline Mapping Device? Khoronus created this artifact to easily track the variations in Mystara's timeline as he travels through various timelines and parallel Mystaras. Some chronomancers have been able to tap into the power of this artifact for their own purposes; it is supposed that this is made possible by the fact that the artifact does not possess a vessel as such, and does not reside in a specific place or time or even plane of existence but was fashioned by Khoronus so that it exists everywhere/everywhen at once (other Immortals speculate that creating such an unanchored artifact is possible only when dabbling with the Vortex Dimension, though Khoronus would not comment on that speculation). Khoronus uses the artifact to visualize all the possible timelines at once, and he can easily pinpoint from among all possibilities the one his manifestation form currently resides in, or any other one. Mortal chronomancers have never been able to see all the timelines (it probably requires an Immortal mind to encompass all the information provided by the artifact) but generally see that from their own timeline, though they can catch glimpses of more removed realities with practice. ===== ___________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau http://www.geocities.com/hmusseau/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 07:48:36 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Web Warlock Subject: Re: Ravenloft (was Day of Dread) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Now that is a neat idea. I submitted an article to the Kargatane a while back for a new Ravenloft Domain, but it was rejected because it was too Mystara specific. Anyway it was called Draconis and it was a Prinicipality of Glantri that got sucked into Ravenloft. Sort of a "Dark" (Darker?) Glantri. If you want it, you can download it at http://www.planetadnd.com/ it is in the downloads section. OH BTW. I posted the Wrong URL for my new d20 Netbook of Witches. You can get it at http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock. Thanks!! Warlock. -- Web Warlock, webwarlock@earthlink.net webwarlock@planetadnd.com Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks The Other Side: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock The DnD Community Council: http://www.dndcommunitycouncil.org/~nbownw -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Wizards Shopper Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 11:19 PM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Ravenloft (was Day of Dread) In a message dated 8/2/01 10:57:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM writes: > Btw, technically there isn't a Ravenloft world since Ravenloft is a demi- > plane. It's a minor point, but Ravenloft being a demi-plane is one of the > things that makes it interesting to me, so I couldn't resist the urge to > point that out. Hope that's okay. > In the Mystara that I am running there is a Ravenloft...and it is a direct result of the release of energies that destroyed Alphatia. Glantri itself has been half "twisted" and corrupted into another demi plane of existence as a result of meddling with the power of the Heart of Thari-Zahadun (as per a previous post of mine many moons ago...the NOS is actually the "heart" of the imprisoned god Tharizdun). Glantri is, in all but name, Ravenloft. Distances are warped and so are perceptions. Glantri City is relatively safe...so are the main "warded" roads...just watch out for that Mist that comes out of nowhere. :) frog ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 07:15:38 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: John Calvin Subject: Re: timeline utility's name MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> How about the Great Warped Time Generator... Let's do the time warp again... Or the Mystaran Time Generation Artifact (make sure you post the handicap/penalties for use though) << >> How about Khoronus's Timeline Mapping Device? << Lol. I love this. The KTMD, or perhaps just Khoronus for short. I think I'm going to use it. John ===== Rule #53. If the beautiful princess that I capture says "I'll never marry you! Never, do you hear me, NEVER!!!", I will say "Oh well" and kill her. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 07:40:26 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Day of Dread In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:17 PM 8/2/01 -0500, you wrote: > >Though this does tie in a question I have for Ravenloft fans. I am working >on a theory that Barovia, the evil heart of Ravenloft and home to Strahd von >Zarovich is originally from Mystara. There is an article like this available on Shawn's site somewhere that was posted by James "Mystaros" Mishler a long time ago. In it, he posits that Strahd and Barovia originated in Karameikos. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 18:14:26 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: The Dragon of Dymrak In-Reply-To: <20010802235140.72307.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Chris Furneaux wrote: > Thanks for this. Truely awesome. [see below for why] Thankyou! :) > I have two groups of PC's, one with a castle near/in > Dymark who is currently hunting dragons (although > not > a green one) and the others have just attained the > eye > of traldar and will have to get it back to the seer > and ensure it doesn't go walkies again. This sounds really interesting! Let me know how this developes. > What I would be interested in is how dragons get > beefed up in 3E vs. OD&D. I need tougher dragons. My > PC's faced off against two large and a huge and came > out way too well off. And I wasn't even being nice. > Oh > well, they'll be back. Two of the dragons were only > wounded and the other taken prisoner. This reminds me of an earlier campaign where I was a player. We actually ressurected a dragon after killing it, just to kill it again! This was a matter of revenge ofcourse, the dragon had humiliated us when we were still low level adventurers! :) Argos was originally just a 14HD dragon, but I changed him into a 22hd one based on his age, which I didnt want to change. [The Blood Sword] > > I like this weapon. Is it just magical, an artifact > or > a demi artifact? I could create some stats for it > when > I find my copy of WotI (it's gone walkies at a > friends > I think.... agghhhh....) I'd like to see what you come up with. I haven't given it much thought other than that it was created by the dragon with aid from his immortal patron. [Cool Argos quotations snipped!] > > D&D 3E statistics: Adult Green Dragon; HD > 20d12+100 > > (hp 230). Organization 2-5, Size: H, AC 27 (-2 > size, > > 19 natural) Can cast Both Cleric and Mage Spells. > > Special Ability: Shape change (Man-sized Humanoid > > form > > only) > > Thats just mean.... I like. > What equivilent level cleric and mage is he (ie how > many spells of what level and at what level does he > cast them) I'm not really sure. I don't have the Monster Manual around these days. However, the Red Adult Dragon from the Players Handbook can cast arcane and cleric spells like a 9th level caster. I think Argos should have the same powers. > Whos Verdilith and whats he like (I gather he is > from > the �The Penhaligion Trilogy�) Well, I used some of Verdilith's background as inspiration for Argos. Verdilith gained his power of taking on Human form (Only Gold Dragons have this power in OD&D) by making a pact with Alphaks. However, The writers of those books had little concept of which Immortals would be associated with Karameikos, and I felt that Orcus is more interested in Karameikos than Alphaks is, at least before WotI. In the trilogy Verdilith poses as a mage (named Dracos IIRC, silly name isnt it?) in the Penhaligon court. H�vard ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 10:36:49 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: Working on a Timeline Utility MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 1 Aug 2001 21:51:45 -0700 John Calvin writes: > ;) Well it was a redundant question really...I > already > knew the answer. What I really wanted to know was whether or not > anyone would > be willing to put in a little time to help me put together all of > those > 'annoying timelines from an infinite number of odd and lost tomes.' > ;) Anyone > still enthusiastic??? I'd be happy to help. Particularly because sometihng like this will make my work on an expanded Darokinian timeline vastly easier. Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/anowack/ ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 13:04:26 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Web Warlock Subject: Re: Day of Dread In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010803074026.00832880@pop.wans.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well not a bad idea. Hold on a sec I have my combined Ravenloft-Mystrara-Greyhawk Time line here. Now keep in mind that Ravenloft has funky time. So Ravenloft uses the Barovian Calendar (BC) and the present day is 751 (according to the books) or 753 (according to the kargatane). That would make it 1,346 AC. On *my* time line. This also coincides with 1,370 DR in the Realms (but who cares about that!). I am correlating my dates based on the "fact" that the two Blackmoors are the same in Greyhawk and Mystara and were destroyed at the same time, possibly splitting Mystara and Oerth (and D&D from AD&D!). Then I use Azalin from Ravenloft since we know when he entered the mists and when he was a king on Greyhawk. Barovia is founded in "an unknown world" in year 1 BC, or 596 AC. So what areas were still ripe for conquest or settlement then? Strahd is born in 299 BC (894 AC) The "Tergs" invade Barovia 320 BC (915 AC) Strahd pushes them back 321 BC (916 AC) Strahd kills his family, Barovia is "cloned" and sucked into the demi plane 351 BC (946 AC). So the world that Barovia is from, never knows it is gone since an exact copy with out people is left behind. Well, some of Strahd's family remains. 800 AC to 1000 AC is a fairly well documented period of time. Castle Amber (X2) has some amazing "Ravenloft like" elements. After all, Old Averoigne *IS* from Gothic Earth! ;) As does the Glantri Gazetteer. Other modules from Mystara also have a very heavy Ravenloft feel to them, more so than other worlds ("Death's Ride" anyone?) There is an adventure where the character go to the Prime Material Barovia around 740 BC (or 1,335 AC). Barovia of this time and place is rules by a "King Strahd". If I go with my "Holy Lands of Glantri" future Time line, 1,335 is a blank period of time for me. A time between the "true" kings in which a regent sat on the throne. It was an attempt by the mage guild to bring back the rule of the Princes. They had assassinated the true king and his heirs, but one escaped not to be "discovered" again till 1,496 AC. SO, given my time line, I'd say Barovia is/was a principality of Glantri. Granted this is not conclusive evidence, but it fills the holes I have. What else do we have? Warlock. -- Web Warlock, webwarlock@earthlink.net webwarlock@planetadnd.com Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks The Other Side: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock The DnD Community Council: http://www.dndcommunitycouncil.org/~nbownw -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Andrew Theisen Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 9:40 AM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Day of Dread At 01:17 PM 8/2/01 -0500, you wrote: > >Though this does tie in a question I have for Ravenloft fans. I am working >on a theory that Barovia, the evil heart of Ravenloft and home to Strahd von >Zarovich is originally from Mystara. There is an article like this available on Shawn's site somewhere that was posted by James "Mystaros" Mishler a long time ago. In it, he posits that Strahd and Barovia originated in Karameikos. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 12:10:50 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Joe Kelly Subject: Re: Day of Dread Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IMC, Nightbay has "pulled Strahd and Soth and Kitiara from the Demiplane. = Strahd's Barovia, is now in a little patch of green amidst the Glantri = Mountains far to the north, it is only 4 hexes large, and has a green = patch to either side of it. In those patches there is a single archway one = in the west and one in the west. These two are collectively known as the = West Gate and the East Gate, and Strahd can prevent anyone leaving. (of = course being a member of the Inner Council of Lord Nightbay he has a good = portion of the Glantrian Skull Legion but has been told not to use them = publicly. Nightbay doesn't want the public at large to know of the = connection. Of course any visiting dignitaries will know as they are all = over the refurbished Castle Strahd. The area is also so secluded, I think = the party has to go over 4 hexes of mountains to get to the east or west = gates so needless to say not many will make the journey. And of course the = mountains are crawling with unfriendly beasts and Dire Wolves. JK Wolf >>> webwarlock@EARTHLINK.NET 08/03/01 11:04AM >>> Well not a bad idea. Hold on a sec I have my combined Ravenloft-Mystrara-Greyhawk Time line = here. Now keep in mind that Ravenloft has funky time. So Ravenloft uses the Barovian Calendar (BC) and the present day is 751 (according to the books) or 753 (according to the kargatane). That would make it 1,346 AC. On = *my* time line. This also coincides with 1,370 DR in the Realms (but who cares about = that!). I am correlating my dates based on the "fact" that the two Blackmoors are the same in Greyhawk and Mystara and were destroyed at the same time, possibly splitting Mystara and Oerth (and D&D from AD&D!). Then I use Azalin from Ravenloft since we know when he entered the mists and when he was a king on Greyhawk. Barovia is founded in "an unknown world" in year 1 BC, or 596 AC. So what areas were still ripe for conquest or settlement then? Strahd is born in 299 BC (894 AC) The "Tergs" invade Barovia 320 BC (915 AC) Strahd pushes them back 321 BC (916 AC) Strahd kills his family, Barovia is "cloned" and sucked into the demi = plane 351 BC (946 AC). So the world that Barovia is from, never knows it is gone since an exact copy with out people is left behind. Well, some of Strahd's family = remains. 800 AC to 1000 AC is a fairly well documented period of time. Castle Amber (X2) has some amazing "Ravenloft like" elements. After all, Old Averoigne *IS* from Gothic Earth! ;) As does the Glantri Gazetteer. Other modules from Mystara also have a very heavy Ravenloft feel to them, more so than other worlds ("Death's Ride" anyone?) There is an adventure where the character go to the Prime Material Barovia around 740 BC (or 1,335 AC). Barovia of this time and place is rules by a "King Strahd". If I go with my "Holy Lands of Glantri" future Time line, 1,335 is a = blank period of time for me. A time between the "true" kings in which a regent = sat on the throne. It was an attempt by the mage guild to bring back the rule of the Princes. They had assassinated the true king and his heirs, but = one escaped not to be "discovered" again till 1,496 AC. SO, given my time line, I'd say Barovia is/was a principality of Glantri. Granted this is not conclusive evidence, but it fills the holes I have. What else do we have? Warlock. -- Web Warlock, webwarlock@earthlink.net webwarlock@planetadnd.com=20 Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks The Other Side: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock=20 The DnD Community Council: http://www.dndcommunitycouncil.org/~nbownw=20 -----Original Message----- From: Mystara RPG Discussion [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On=20 Behalf Of Andrew Theisen Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 9:40 AM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Day of Dread At 01:17 PM 8/2/01 -0500, you wrote: > >Though this does tie in a question I have for Ravenloft fans. I am = working >on a theory that Barovia, the evil heart of Ravenloft and home to Strahd von >Zarovich is originally from Mystara. There is an article like this available on Shawn's site somewhere that was posted by James "Mystaros" Mishler a long time ago. In it, he posits that Strahd and Barovia originated in Karameikos. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp=20 The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/=20 To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp=20 The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/=20 To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM=20 with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 21:17:35 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: The Dragon of Dymrak In-Reply-To: <2995200184221596796@dsl-only.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Mike Harvey wrote: > > Also, any details on Attura? I assume she is a green > dragon as well. > Is she living in Karameikos somewhere? Attura is a green Dragon living in the Athruagin lands. She is also detailed in Bruce Heard's article Who's Who Among Dragons: http://dnd.starflung.com/whoswho.html I copied the part about Attura below for your convenience :) Atturamak: The ruler is Attura, a 16-HD green dragon. Atturamak covers the large forested area in the southern Atruaghin Clans. Attura's lair is located at the centre of the forest, very deep underground. It has more than a dozen entrances, some as far as 80 miles away. These entrances are overgrown with vegetation or are protected with magic. A large part of her lair is sculpted in Azcan fashion, Attura is familiar with the Hollow World. Attura is 202 years old. She is a treacherous creature, quite skilful at politics among dragons or humans. She gained most of her power by tricking weaker dragons to come closer, then challenging them in order to bind them. She has never mated. She dislikes Argos for escaping her, and Azem for criticising her evil ways. Attura currently plans on establishing her dominance over Thalkor (see later) to gain control over his lizard man army. She also was approached by a wizard, a follower of the Sphere of Energy, who promised great wealth and increased magical power in exchange for her oath. Attura is a power-hungry fool and an unscrupulous beast, which presently puts her at risk becoming a puppet and follower of the Sphere of Energy. H�vard Faanes ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 21:27:18 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: The Dragon of Dymrak In-Reply-To: <008d01c11bb1$e5a8f0a0$d539abd0@tds.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- George wrote: > In my campaign Argos has become something of a > heroic figure. Why Orcus? > That seems odd for a dragon, I would have thought > Pearl... A green Dragon, a hero? Unusual choice... Your question about Orcus is fair though. I have several reasons for this: 1) I postulate that the Dragons of the Known World are descendants of the Renegade dragons from the Dragonlord Trilogy, and thus would not be inclined to follow the Draconic Immortals. 2)Orcus is one of the chief enemies of Halav. Halav is a decleared enemy of Beastmen and Orcus is the patron of Orcs. 3)IMC this has resulted in an unholy alliance. Orcus, Demogorgon and Arik(although Imprisoned) oppose the Traladaran Three and seek the destruction of the Karameikan lands. After AC1010 they are also joined by Alphaks. 4)The Penhaligon Trilogy suggested the alliance between the green dragon and Alphaks. As he (at least IMC) doesn't become involved with Karameikos before 1010 (because of their role in WotI and because he has nothing better to do after the destruction of Alphatia), I decided to replace him with Orcus. Demogorgon would have worked too though.. H�vard Faanes ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:49:53 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Web Warlock Subject: New Contest, Great Prize! In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Over twenty-five years ago one man had a dream. A dream of a game, where players would gather, without boards and without winners, with rules that took up books not pamphlets. That game was Dungeons & Dragons. 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Such a challenge deserves an equal prize. Not only will you be heralded throughout the land as THE Iron DM but you also will get a copy of Wizard�s of the Coast�s new Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting! This book details everything you need to play in the Realms for the 3rd Edition Dungeons & Dragons game. Do you have what it takes? Do you have the skills? It is time to stop boasting and prove yourself, because in the end the boasting rights will belong only to THE IRON DM! http://www.planetadnd.com/ (And don't forget to grab a copy of my Witches and Warlocks Netbook at http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock!) Warlock -- Web Warlock, webwarlock@earthlink.net webwarlock@planetadnd.com Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks The Other Side: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock The DnD Community Council: http://www.dndcommunitycouncil.org/~nbownw ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 21:51:10 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: The Dragon of Dymrak In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- The Stalker wrote: > > I like this. It seems very useful and will do well > as background IMC once I > get to that point. Thanks for posting it. One thing, > though, why would > Argos need Orcus as a patron to turn into human > form? Verdilith did it in > the Penhaligon trilogy, and he didn't seem to have > any particular > association with Orcus or some other nasty Immortal > (but we can never know, > of course...) IIRC Verdilith made the same pact with Alphaks. I just replaced him with Orcus for reasons I just posted in another mail. [Argos=Verdilith] > Ahem, not to put to fine a point of it, but Johauna > Menhir actually killed > Verdilith during the story, toward the end of the > second book, I think. If > you didn't read that bit, I don't blame you, though! > The first book ("The > Tainted Sword") was okay, particularly the unhappy > ending which, even > though it was foreshadowed throughout the book, was > surprising, yet by the > second book ("The Dragon's Tomb"), the story became > uninteresting and > boring - you simply didn't care whether Johauna and > the others succeeded > anymore, and by the third book ("The Fall of Magic") > you had just given up > and didn't care at all anymore... The best thing > about the third book was > the title, really :( I actually read through the whole thing, although it was some time ago. I've decided to use some of the characters in the Trilogy, but to change/ignore the storyline, as I totally agree with you on the quality of the thing. It was a fantastic display of ignorance of Mystara. :( > Just IMNSHO... > > Still, it doesn't matter so much. I'd just have > Verdilith be one of Argos' > agents, and once Johauna kills him, Argos goes into > the field himself. In > truth, I think Argos has subdued a number of dragons > to serve under him. > That's what dragons do, right? This would work. Adult green Dragons are listed with an organization of 2-5 which means that Argos could very well have at least 4 other dragons under hist control. Maybe more since he is one of the Major Dragons in the Known World. Thoughts? H�vard Faanes ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 12:52:41 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Working on a Timeline Utility MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> On Wed, 1 Aug 2001 21:51:45 -0700 John Calvin writes: > ;) Well it was a redundant question really...I > already > knew the answer. What I really wanted to know was whether or not > anyone would > be willing to put in a little time to help me put together all of > those > 'annoying timelines from an infinite number of odd and lost tomes.' > ;) Anyone > still enthusiastic??? I'd be happy to help. Particularly because sometihng like this will make my work on an expanded Darokinian timeline vastly easier. << Exelent ...... I'm actually coming along much faster than I thought I would. A beta version will definately be up on the web by this weekend. If anyone else wants to help out feel free to contact me either on or off the list. I'll try and coordinate our attempts at generating data so that we don't duplicate our efforts. I'm going to send the technical stuff off list to those of you that have responded. John ===== Rule #53. If the beautiful princess that I capture says "I'll never marry you! Never, do you hear me, NEVER!!!", I will say "Oh well" and kill her. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 16:07:21 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: George Subject: Re: The Dragon of Dymrak MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit See below: > --- George wrote: > > > In my campaign Argos has become something of a > > heroic figure. Why Orcus? > > That seems odd for a dragon, I would have thought > > Pearl... > > A green Dragon, a hero? Unusual choice... Not at all. Argos is not merely a green dragon, he is a Green Dragon King (Huge no less). See Bruce's article in the Dragon issue just before the Who's Who for details. Additionally, just because a dragon is chaotic does not make him evil. It simply means he likes to make his own rules when he feels like it. > Your question about Orcus is fair though. I have > several reasons for this: > > 1) I postulate that the Dragons of the Known World are > descendants of the Renegade dragons from the > Dragonlord Trilogy, and thus would not be inclined to > follow the Draconic Immortals. Here is where we differ widely. I did not care for that novel and I certainly do not consider it canon (no judgement about its value in non-canon games, just that I do not see any reason to use it in mine). My source of dragons stems from intimations given in Bruce's article on dragon development (the previously mentioned article, "From Hatcling to Immortal" or something like that). Dragons are intimately connected with the land. Indeed, when a dragon increases in size due to its ritual of sublimation there is a direct manifestation of this throughout the land. In my opinion this demonstrates that dragons are an integral part of the world itself, and I have made them guardians of the world (though the chaotic ones need to be convinced of this). What are they guardians against? Nightmare. > > 2)Orcus is one of the chief enemies of Halav. Halav is > a decleared enemy of Beastmen and Orcus is the patron > of Orcs. I thought that Karaash was the patron of orcs (having actually been an orc himself). Indeed, King Thar is a shaman (level 12) of Karaash. Karaash is not even entropic, he is an immortal of the sphere of Thought. > > 3)IMC this has resulted in an unholy alliance. Orcus, > Demogorgon and Arik(although Imprisoned) oppose the > Traladaran Three and seek the destruction of the > Karameikan lands. After AC1010 they are also joined by > Alphaks. Why? Or is it that there are so many Alphatian survivors coming to Karameikos? > > 4)The Penhaligon Trilogy suggested the alliance > between the green dragon and Alphaks. As he (at least > IMC) doesn't become involved with Karameikos before > 1010 (because of their role in WotI and because he has > nothing better to do after the destruction of > Alphatia), I decided to replace him with Orcus. > Demogorgon would have worked too though.. > > H�vard Faanes I prefer to think of dragons as a part of the world. This gets away from the notion of dragons as pawns of higher powers and makes them INTO higher powers. This is all in accord with Bruce's article (which, since he was doing the principal Mystara development at the time, I had always assumed was canon). George ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:02:32 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dave Keyser Organization: Palmchip Subject: Re: Zzonga (various) & Council MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike Harvey wrote: > Dave Keyser wrote: > > Yes, a level 36 mage can cast 81 spells a day, 9 for each spell level, and that > > is the maximum anyone can do, but is that the only criteria to measure a > > wizard's power? By volume? > > How about by total number of spell levels? This puts a 35th lvl > wizard about about 95% of the power of 36th, and 33rd at about 88%. > > OTOH, Wish is important, and I'm not sure that merely counting spell > levels adequately captures the difference a spell level makes. So, > what if we square the spell levels before counting, and also treat > the ability to cast Wish as a 10th level spell? That results in 35th > being 86% of the power of 36th, and 33rd being 76% as powerful. > > > And what about a level 33 int 18 mage who knows > > wish versus a level 36 int 17 mage who can't cast wish. > > You have to be 36th level to cast Wish in the RC, which is what I > based my calculation on above. But I would generally alter this with > a house rule, and think the old Masters Set at 33rd sounds more > reasonable. (Doing this and using weighted levels with Wish at 10th, > we get 33rd at 82% power and 35th at 92%. I use the Masters set ruling on this. As does DOTE and all the Gazeteers. The Rules Cyclopedia came out after all of them. So based on your analysis, replacing all the 36th level wizards on the grand council with 33rd level wizards reduces the power of the council by 18%. If I had to come up with some figures for my campaign, I might say that 1/2 of the council is 36th level, 1/4 is 35th level, 1/8 is 34th level and 1/8 is 33rd level. Which means my grand council is approximately - ( I estimated 34th level as 86% for expediency.) 1/2 * 100 + 1/4 * 92 + 1/8 * 86 + 1/8 * 82 = 94% So I have reduced the power of the canonical Grand Council by 6%. Like I said, not that much. Dave ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:27:32 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dave Keyser Organization: Palmchip Subject: Re: The Dragon of Dymrak MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Havard Faanes wrote: > > > [Argos=Verdilith] > > > Ahem, not to put to fine a point of it, but Johauna > > Menhir actually killed > > Verdilith during the story, toward the end of the > > second book, I think. If > > you didn't read that bit, I don't blame you, though! > > The first book ("The > > Tainted Sword") was okay, particularly the unhappy > > ending which, even > > though it was foreshadowed throughout the book, was > > surprising, yet by the > > second book ("The Dragon's Tomb"), the story became > > uninteresting and > > boring - you simply didn't care whether Johauna and > > the others succeeded > > anymore, and by the third book ("The Fall of Magic") > > you had just given up > > and didn't care at all anymore... The best thing > > about the third book was > > the title, really :( > > I actually read through the whole thing, although it > was some time ago. I've decided to use some of the > characters in the Trilogy, but to change/ignore the > storyline, as I totally agree with you on the quality > of the thing. It was a fantastic display of ignorance > of Mystara. :( > > > I chalk the whole trilogy up as a fictional story based on the legends of Argos, the great green dragon of Dymrak. This was actually mentioned in the adventure box Hail the Heroes, where the first book was quoted, and the text mentions it is a strange work either fictional or describing the distant future. After buying that adventure box set, I was tempted to write back to TSR, "Apology accepted." Dave ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 23:48:39 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Penhaligon Trilogy Question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I seem to have misplaced my copy of the first book of the trilogy. Can anyone help me with the names of the various Orc tribes marked on the map on one of the first pages in the book? This is important for an upcoming project. Thanks! H�vard ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 00:04:43 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Dymrak Dread (DDA3?) Question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I would like to have some more information on the Goblins in this module. Is there a map of their lair? Is it large? What is the name of their chieftain? Do they ride Dire Wolves? Is there a name of their clan? What else is featured in this module? H�vard ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 16:31:51 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dave Keyser Organization: Palmchip Subject: small Blackmoor tidbit has surfaced in Living Greyhawk Journal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just got Living Greyhawk Journal #4, and was pleasantly surprised to see the first new Blackmoor material published by WOTC/TSR since 1987. A little background for those who don't know, Blackmoor is Dave Arneson's campaign which is still going on from what I hear. Gary Gygax dropped Blackmoor into his own Greyhawk campaign, but other than a few paragraphs and a location on the map, which gets repeated everytime a Greyhawk glossography or gazeteer gets published, the Blackmoor in Greyhawk has never been developed. This is probably due to the various legal issues that Arneson and Gygax were involved in. Blackmoor is its own campaign setting, but was linked to Mystara by the DA modules back in the 1980's. The Mystara Blackmoor and Greyhawk Blackmoor are virtually identical, but the DA modules added a lot more detail. As far as I know, nothing has been done with the Blackmoor in Greyhawk until now. Issue LGJ #4 provides a monster manual entry for the Qullan, which are barbaric and mad (in)humanoid shock troops used by the Egg of Coot. They are 8+ feet tall, wear animal skins or nothing at all, and cover their bodies with tatoos, warpoint and ritual scarring. They revere the Egg of Coot as a god, although they also worship evil deities and demons. They are hostile to all intelligent creatures except themselves. They hunt for their food. They prefer their specially sharpened longswords, but occasionally will use short bows. The sword is usually recovered from an enemy in battle. They radiate a confusion aura within 5 feet of themselves, but their weakness is that any magical attempt to control them(where they fail the saving throw) will instantly kill them. So something like charm monster could wipe out a lot of them. When the Egg of Coot needs to use them, he has his army herd the Qullan onto the battle front, and lets them charge the enemy first. Any Qullan surviving the battle are killed. Any Qullan who attempts to kill the Egg dies instantly as if charmed. The RPGA Living Greyhawk campaign has divided up most of the Greyhawk campaign setting into regions. Each region is assigned to a part of the US or somewhere overseas. They currently do not use Blackmoor as a region, and this entry is mainly concerned with the author of the entry using the Qullan elsewhere in Greyhawk. Also, I don't know if it has been mentioned yet, but WOTC is publishing Keep on the Borderlands as a novel in November/December. It is under the Greyhawk collection, but we will have to see if they put in Mystara references. The story is based around the actual keep, but it is not clear if it will use the setting from B2 or the "Return to" set years later. Dave Keyser ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 18:18:48 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: Day of Dread On Fri, 3 Aug 2001 07:40:26 -0700, Andrew Theisen wrote: >At 01:17 PM 8/2/01 -0500, you wrote: >> >>Though this does tie in a question I have for Ravenloft fans. I am working >>on a theory that Barovia, the evil heart of Ravenloft and home to Strahd von >>Zarovich is originally from Mystara. > >There is an article like this available on Shawn's site somewhere that was >posted by James "Mystaros" Mishler a long time ago. In it, he posits that >Strahd and Barovia originated in Karameikos. > This is the first I've heard of it, but I see that there is definitely some potential in it. I could well imagine Strahd being from Mystara. As Web Warlock pointed out, Glantri is certainly a possible place for Barovia to have originated from, assuming it was from what was/became Boldavia. Since the Boldavians are descendants of the Traladarans, I would assume Karameikos/Traladara is the other possibility... Which it is depends on timing and preference, I guess. After all, the Boldavians didn't live in Glantri/"The Highlands" a thousand years ago... Then again, I have no idea how long ago Strahd and Barovia has been in Ravenloft, so I guess those would be points to consider. - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 18:26:10 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: Penhaligon Trilogy Question On Fri, 3 Aug 2001 23:48:39 +0200, =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= wrote: >I seem to have misplaced my copy of the first book of >the trilogy. Can anyone help me with the names of the >various Orc tribes marked on the map on one of the >first pages in the book? This is important for an >upcoming project. > Okay [finally the book is good for something ;) ] There are only two tribes: Rooster's Tribe (northern-most, west of Castellan river) Greasetongue's Tribe (south/central to the area on the east side of the Castellan river) Btw, thanks for pointing these out. I'd completely forgotten about them and can use them in the upcoming goblin-hunt in the Dymrak Forest IMC... - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 18:31:21 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: Ravenloft (was Day of Dread) On Fri, 3 Aug 2001 07:48:36 -0500, Web Warlock wrote: >Now that is a neat idea. > >I submitted an article to the Kargatane a while back for a new Ravenloft >Domain, but it was rejected because it was too Mystara specific. > Damn! Why do they reject stuff like that? There is only one confirmed Mystara character in Ravenloft, so why not some more, and preferably some well-known ones. I kind of liked the idea of putting Xanthus in Ravenloft after he mysteriously disappeared during the Jennite/NACE rebellion against his rule. >Anyway it was called Draconis and it was a Prinicipality of Glantri that got >sucked into Ravenloft. Sort of a "Dark" (Darker?) Glantri. > GAH!! You say "darker Glantri" once more time and I'll start thinking "Pitch Black", I tell you! ;) >If you want it, you can download it at http://www.planetadnd.com/ it is in >the downloads section. > I might just take a look. Thanks for the link. (snip rest) - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 19:02:24 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: The Dragon of Dymrak On Fri, 3 Aug 2001 21:51:10 +0200, =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= wrote: >--- The Stalker wrote: >> (Snip) > >IIRC Verdilith made the same pact with Alphaks. I forgot about that. Mea culpa. > I just >replaced him with Orcus for reasons I just posted in >another mail. > >[Argos=Verdilith] > Sounds reasonable. I don't see much reason to replace Alphaks, but if you do, Orcus is a good choice, particularly since he and Demogorgon are used shamefully rarely :( >> Ahem, not to put to fine a point of it, but Johauna >> Menhir actually killed >> Verdilith during the story, toward the end of the >> second book, I think. (snip my harsh slashing of the Penhaligon trilogy). > >I actually read through the whole thing, although it >was some time ago. I've decided to use some of the >characters in the Trilogy, but to change/ignore the >storyline, as I totally agree with you on the quality >of the thing. It was a fantastic display of ignorance >of Mystara. :( > Well, I was just disappointed by the result because the first book was sort of okay. But once I realized that the plot is, yes, another alien invasion from another world/dimension, I lost interest at an alarming rate. As if that isn't bad enough, they use just the same plot (alien invasion) in the Dragonlord trilogy :( Please, if people are going to write Mystara fiction, please base it on plots appropriate to a fantasy setting, not M-Independence Day or M-Star Trek the Borg Invasion... Btw, I used some of the details IMC too. Since we're in 1008 now, the characters can witness that the castle at Penhaligon looks mostly new because it was torn down in the trilogy. It annoys me that I can't remember the name of that aging knight befriended to Johauna and Flinn at the Penhaligon court and his background. If somebody remembers, please speak up, or mention book and page where he is described if convenient. Recently, the characters travelled near Penhaligon and the paladin went to talk with Baroness Arteris (well, she is IMC - another thing I took from the trilogy) about some military matters, but she merely told him to see Menhir, their greatest knight, since all military matters were handled by those capable hands. So the paladin strides in and asks this petite (compared to him) woman to see Sir Menhir (in a slightly superior tone), only to have this woman tell him, a little annoyed, "Yes, I'm Johauna Menhir! What can I do for you, "Sir"...". He was more than a little surprised and didn't know what to do with himself, while the other characters (who thankfully weren't there or it might have been emberrasing, oh wait, it was...) were stunned. I, naturally, laughed my rear off for about ten minutes :) >> >> Still, it doesn't matter so much. I'd just have >> Verdilith be one of Argos' >> agents, and once Johauna kills him, Argos goes into >> the field himself. In >> truth, I think Argos has subdued a number of dragons >> to serve under him. >> That's what dragons do, right? > >This would work. Adult green Dragons are listed with >an organization of 2-5 which means that Argos could >very well have at least 4 other dragons under hist >control. Maybe more since he is one of the Major >Dragons in the Known World. > >Thoughts? > I agree, only I think he should have even more dragons. Maybe a lot more! As many as we can give him without straining credibility (by people thinking it's simply too much and people wondering how all those dragons manage to get into and out of the lake without anyone ever noticing...) Oh, another idea - Verdilith could have been one of Argos' agents, only he turned rogue and went his own ways, which is why there are no clues to Argos being involved in the Penhaligon plot and why Argos doesn't try to avenge Verdilith's death... (In fact, he's glad that treacherous wyrm is dead, since he could have exposed Argos through his foolishness!) - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 19:11:07 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: timeline utility's name On Fri, 3 Aug 2001 07:15:38 -0700, John Calvin wrote: >>> >How about the Great Warped Time Generator... Let's do the time warp >again... >Or the Mystaran Time Generation Artifact (make sure you post the >handicap/penalties for use though) ><< > >>> >How about Khoronus's Timeline Mapping Device? ><< > >Lol. I love this. The KTMD, or perhaps just Khoronus for short. I think I'm >going to use it. > How about Calvin's Chronolator or some such (take some credit for your work, why don't you!) :) - The Stalker (still trying to master Chronomancy to sort out all those pesky timelines. "This is Mystara, not Star Trek!") ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 01:29:50 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: Dragon Slaying (was Dymark Dragon) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > All around 10th. Mage, fighter, cleric, elf and thief. > They all were invisible. The fighter and thief on a > broom of flying, and the Mage, elf and cleric on a > magic carpet. [snip] At this point I had a OD&D huge > red dragon matterialize above their heads (from being > invisible) "what do you want" he bellowed and half way > through their answer he gave in and breathed fire on > them. A single huge red should be able to easily handle a party of 5 10th level PCs. Even a tough small red should be challenging. A 13 HD small red could have 104 hp, and for most PCs this would be a save or die situation vs. it's breath. A thief or MU (or others even, esp. if worn down by the dragon's allies and defenses to its lair) might be killed regardless of the save. The breath would disrupt any spells being cast, and if the dragon wins initiative in the next round it could finish them off with a 2nd breath. What if the dragon were hasted and got double attacks? For a large or huge dragon, who have high hit dice, to hit bonuses, up to 6 attacks (pre-haste), and potent melee damage, this should do a number on the PCs. The kicks, tail, and wings can knock PCs down, disarm them, or stun (with a saving throw penalty equal to the damage caused (for a huge red, this could be save at -14!). Did you have the ice storms cause double damage? 90 seems high (for 2 10HD storms), and a huge red saves as a F20. Having the dragons use magic, like you said, is good. They could even use some items in their hoard (rings on claws, drink potions, etc.). Usually, the dragon's tactics will dictate the fight. A first strike with breath, like you described, should give the wyrm the upper hand. I'm surprised that the PCs could recover that quickly and fend off two more! If you want to test them, play up *all* of the dragon's abilities and attacks and don't pull any punches. A dragon should be able to bring them to fear. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 09:22:09 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "Shawn J." Subject: Re: Ravenloft (was Day of Dread) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/3/01 8:59:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, webwarlock@EARTHLINK.NET writes: > I submitted an article to the Kargatane a while back for a new Ravenloft > Domain, but it was rejected because it was too Mystara specific. > > Anyway it was called Draconis and it was a Prinicipality of Glantri that got > sucked into Ravenloft. Sort of a "Dark" (Darker?) Glantri. > Now that's just totally biased. Can you say Lord Soth (from Krynn)? And tell me the rest of the Domain of Dread's "cast" doesn't include at least one or two "Forgotten Realms-ish" characters in its line-up! > If you want it, you can download it at http://www.planetadnd.com/ it is in > the downloads section. You bet I will, and if my players get their wish for a Ravenloft mini-campaign, I will definitely give it the preferencial treatment Mystara-based material deserves! That'll show those Ravenloft-ite snobs! ;^> --- Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 09:56:06 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "Shawn J." Subject: Dissappointing Novels :( (was Re: The Dragon of Dymrak) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/3/01 6:03:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dave@PALMCHIP.COM writes: > > I actually read through the whole thing, although it > > was some time ago. I've decided to use some of the > > characters in the Trilogy, but to change/ignore the > > storyline, as I totally agree with you on the quality > > of the thing. It was a fantastic display of ignorance > > of Mystara. :( > > I chalk the whole trilogy up as a fictional story based on > the legends of Argos, the great green dragon of Dymrak. > This was actually mentioned in the adventure box Hail > the Heroes, where the first book was quoted, and the > text mentions it is a strange work either fictional or > describing the distant future. Sorry Dave, but you are just slightly mistaken---"Hail the Heroes" refers to the "Dragonlords of Mystara" novel which seems to describe a setting in Glantri's distant past that is more akin to Krynn than Mystara (yet is still compelling and /could/ fit, esp. if all remnants of it were obliterated by the ravages of time). Havard refers instead to the "The Tainted Sword" Trilogy, which features Johauna Menhir as the main character and Verdilith as the primary villain. I recently reread the series and although I must agree with Havard that, for the most part, only the first book is commendable, the other two are still worthy of a single read if you are not an ultra-discriminating reader. As for me, I consider that trilogy to be a story which has been conveyed orally down through time and across unknowable distances (through mysterious means) only to be recorded here in a modern time, far removed from the place and age of the original events described and thus, one can only expect some "inconsistent" details to have developed from the myriad retellings that the tale has undergone. Additionally, the current 'author' may have taken "poetic liscense" to make the story feel more epic than the /true/ events. [For instance, no "Backwater" village would have a selection of magic weapons for sale, nor have visiting elven heroes riding hippogriff mounts (at least not often or without a gawking crowd).] > After buying that adventure box set, I was tempted to > write back to TSR, "Apology accepted." It guess that no "apology" was ever proffered by TSR. :^( But, if you haven't read the books, try the first one; it's not disappointing if you read it as an "embellished" tale. --- Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 09:58:25 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "Shawn J." Subject: Pehaligon's Castellan is... (was Dragon of Dymrak) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/3/01 11:05:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM writes: > Btw, I used some of the details IMC too. Since we're in 1008 now, the > characters can witness that the castle at Penhaligon looks mostly new > because it was torn down in the trilogy. It annoys me that I can't remember > the name of that aging knight befriended to Johauna and Flinn at the > Penhaligon court and his background. If somebody remembers, please speak > up, or mention book and page where he is described if convenient. Stalker, you have answered questions for me before so I shall most certainly grant your most honorable request. [Just practicing my courtly speech because Penhaligon's Castellan---/Sir Lyle Graybow/---always insists that etiquette be followed to the letter and I wouldn't want to dissappoint him! ] He's mentioned through the last third of "Tainted Sword" and much of the early chapters of "The Dragon's Tomb" (sorry, have no idea of page numbers). > Recently,the characters travelled near Penhaligon and the paladin went to talk with > Baroness Arteris (well, she is IMC - another thing I took from the trilogy) > about some military matters, but she merely told him to see Menhir, their > greatest knight, since all military matters were handled by those capable > hands. So the paladin strides in and asks this petite (compared to him) > woman to see Sir Menhir (in a slightly superior tone), only to have this > woman tell him, a little annoyed, "Yes, I'm Johauna Menhir! What can I do > for you, "Sir"...". He was more than a little surprised and didn't know > what to do with himself, while the other characters (who thankfully weren't > there or it might have been emberrasing, oh wait, it was...) were stunned. > I, naturally, laughed my rear off for about ten minutes :) Good one!!! If I may, I will keep that in mind for future visits to Penhaligon. --- Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 10:01:30 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "Shawn J." Subject: Invasion of the Cliched (was Re: The Dragon of Dymrak) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/3/01 11:05:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM writes: > >I actually read through the whole thing, although it > >was some time ago. I've decided to use some of the > >characters in the Trilogy, but to change/ignore the > >storyline, as I totally agree with you on the quality > >of the thing. It was a fantastic display of ignorance > >of Mystara. :( > > > > Well, I was just disappointed by the result because the first book was sort > of okay. But once I realized that the plot is, yes, another alien invasion > from another world/dimension, I lost interest at an alarming rate. As if > that isn't bad enough, they use just the same plot (alien invasion) in the > Dragonlord trilogy :( > > Please, if people are going to write Mystara fiction, please base it on > plots appropriate to a fantasy setting, not M-Independence Day or M-Star > Trek the Borg Invasion... > Hey now ;^), what's wrong with an alien/extra-dimensional invasion? It can work, one just has to know how to do it right and with all the appropriate bells and whistles! After all, would anyone want to see staid, old "Lord of the Rings" when it premieres (the movies) if certain aspects of fantasy had been done totally to death? Nah, we'd still /love/ the cliches---it's just when they are treated in /cheesy/ ways that makes them so hard to swallow. And I just _know_ the Stalker can't be against the mixing of a few sci-fi concepts with fantasy because you love Alphatians---didn't someone tell me they are /aliens/ who /invaded/ Mystara?! 8^> --- Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 16:04:11 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Domains of Ostland - Osterlo (long) Due to popular demand (hi, Mortus!) here's another installment in my Domains of Ostland series. Just 5 (or is that 6?) more to go! Previous entries can be found at the Mystara Homepage (link appears at end of message) and my own homepage (http://www.scythe.hjem.wanadoo.dk/Mystara.htm). Like previous entries this one is set in AC1000, uses OD&D rules with optional rules for personality traits from GAZ7: The Northern Reaches. Enjoy! Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk --- THE CLAN DOMAIN OF OSTERLO The domain of Osterlo takes up the entirety of Osterslo Island in the Kingdom of Ostland. This small island lies in the southeastern part of Ostland. It contains three clear hexes and two hexes of forested hills. The land is almost impossible to farm, and the small crops are regularly lost. Intense fishing and whaling takes place around Osterslo. The Osterlo clan are renowned seamen, who challenge the ocean in tiny open boats and bring home whatever they can catch, from small fish to sea serpents. Outsiders of any nationality are unwelcome in Osterslo, and will be attacked if they do not leave. If Osterlo clan members are forced to obey another, they do so wordlessly and scowling. The Osterlo clan are not usually raiders, though every few years they will band under a charismatic leader and follow him in a raid or two. Head of Domain: Jarl Starkad the Hunter is considered ruler of the Osterlo clan. His great hall is the center of the village of Saltshore. Population: 1400 people are found in Osterlo. Only about 200 of these are thralls, 700 are non-warrior freemen, and 500 are warriors. 800 people carry arms and fight fiercely for themselves and their clansmen. The Osterlo clan values freedom, and most clan members find thralldom distasteful. SALTSHORE The center of clan Osterlo, Saltshore is a large village (500 inhabitants). The village is named for the rocky shore with stones covered in white salt from water sprayed by the thundering waves. This layer of salt seems so thick that not even rainfall can wash it off. The tiny fishing boats of the village are pulled onto the rocks, when the fishermen are at home. Saltshore has no defenses aside from the rocky shores that make landing a larger ship almost impossible, and its fearsome warriors. Since there is nothing in Saltshore but ramshackle houses, hostile people, and an overpowering stench of fish, no people would have any reason to invade it, anyway. The great hall of jarl Starkad the Hunter is a patchwork of stone, driftwood, and whalebone that lies close to the shores, overlooking the sea. STARKAD THE HUNTER Neutral 14th level Fighter (Str 17, Int 9, Wis 5, Dex 14, Con 18, Cha 9, AC 5, hp 94) Personality Traits: Cautious/Rash 3/17, Modest/Proud 5/15, Peaceful/Violent 6/14, Courageous/Fearful 17/3, Energetic/Lazy 16/4, Trusting/Suspicious 5/15 46 years old, Long black hair and beard streaked with grey, Pale grey eyes with a mad glare The Osterlo clan traditionally acknowledges their most competent seaman and hunter as their jarl. For this reason Starkad Illugison is the current jarl of Osterlo. Like his father (and his father before him) Starkad is a magnificent but simple man, who has spent most of his life at sea, pulling strange creatures out of its depths, and bringing them home as trophies and food. Also like his father (and his father before him) Starkad will in all likelihood die at sea, swallowed by one of its creatures. In fact Starkad will probably end up as food for the terrible Storm Serpent, an almost legendary sea serpent of immense size that plagues the waters between Ostland and the Isle of Dawn. Starkad first saw the Storm Serpent as a child, watching from the white shores, as his father battled it, and was overcome and swallowed, forever lost to the salty embrace of the ocean. Starkad�s entire life has been spent chasing the elusive Storm Serpent, and, if possible, he takes to the sea whe! never storms are sighted in the hopes that he will meet and kill the beast. Starkad sails a small vessel with room for four people, and he always brings a giant steel hook for fishing. The jarl has little patience for actually ruling the domain, and since his �subjects� really aren�t interested in having another man telling them what to do, they are satisfied with this. When at sea or at official occasions, Starkad wears an armor made of the hide of sea serpents (AC 6). It is very flexible and allows him to swim unhindered. His favorite weapon is a spear+3, called �Whalebane� that he often throws at opponents. He also carries a Dagger+2 at all times. Starkad is married to Hlif Flat-Nose (43) and has three living children: Glum Starkadsson (14), Bork Starkadsson (10), and Asa Hlifsdottir (7). Other children have been lost to diseases and the sea. Hlif (Lawful Normal Woman; Modest/Proud 17/3, Peaceful/Violent 18/2, Honest/Deceitful 15/5) is a simple woman, whose entire life has consisted of bearing and raising children, cleaning fish and other sea creatures, and worrying about her husband�s safe return from the sea. She is entirely unambitious, and has no imagination whatsoever. Glum (Neutral 1st level Fighter; Peaceful/Violent 6/14, Courageous/Fearful 14/6, Energetic/Lazy 15/5) is growing up to become just like his father (and his father before him): A strong but simple man, who spends most of his life at sea. He has had his own boat (constructed from the remains of his older brother�s boat, after he was lost at sea) for two years now, and is starting to venture further out in search of prey. THE STORM SERPENT Huge Sea Dragon Armor Class: -3 Hit Dice: 16**** Hit Points: 85 Move: 300� (100�) (swimming or gliding) Attacks: 1 bite or 1 spit Damage: 3d8+8 or special No. Appearing: Unique Save As: F16 Morale: 10 Treasure: Hx3, Ix2 Intelligence: 15 Alignment: Chaotic XP value: 7,350 The Storm Serpent is one of the rare Sea Dragons, and a huge one at that! Its true name is Zikandra, and it is a female Sea Dragon that has lived in the waters near Ostland and the western Isle of Dawn for many decades. She is a sickly green color with a bright yellow-green crest. She is usually found in the depths of the ocean, near her lair in an old sunken Alphatian Man-o-War. Occasionally she surfaces with dramatic results. If the Storm Serpent comes within 300� of the surface, heavy clouds begin to gather above the water. When she emerges from the depths a powerful storm will accompany her, often a thunder storm, though in freezing temperatures it will be a hail storm. The storm is centered on the dragon, and has a diameter of approximately 24 miles. When above waters, the Storm Serpent can glide up to 20� above the surface, using her fin-like wings. This gliding can last no longer than 6 rounds before Zikandra has to reenter the water. The Storm Serpent does not involve herself with dragons above waters. She is a some times rival of Thundiara (see Who�s Who Among Dragons, by Bruce A. Heard), but their realms are far apart, so they rarely come into contact. Zikandra preys on whales and the sea serpents that are her occasional servants. In combat the Storm Dragon will use her powerful bite, or she can unleash a poisonous breath. Above water this will be a 30� diameter globe of poison with a range of 100�. Beneath the surface it takes the form of a poisonous �cloud�, 50�x50�x30�. Any being caught in the poison must save vs. Dragon Breath or die in severe agony within 1d4 rounds. Even if the save is made, the creature will take half of Zikandra�s current hit points in damage. This breath weapon can be used three times per day. The Storm Serpent is highly intelligent, and she usually carries the following spells: 1st level: Charm Person (x2), Detect Magic, Magic Missile (x2) 2nd level: Detect Invisible, Entangle (x2), Web (x2) 3rd level: Create Air (x2), Haste, Hold Person 4th level: Charm Monster, Confusion, Growth of Plants Beneath the sea, Zikandra can use Create Air to punish and kill her water-breathing servants. She is also fond of using Entangle (or other hold-type magics) to immobilize her opponents in seaweed, particularly after having cast Growth of Plants. She will often use her breath weapon on several immobilized, charmed, or confused opponents to affect as many creatures as possible. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 18:05:11 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: The Dragon of Dymrak In-Reply-To: <014701c11c60$498e8680$d539abd0@tds.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- George wrote: [Alphaks joining the Unholy Three after WotI] > Why? Or is it that there are so many Alphatian > survivors coming to > Karameikos? Mainly because Karameikos was something of an ally of Alphatia during WotI. Also having Terari settle there and establishing his School of Magecraft didn't help. Finally, Alphaks didn't have too many other enemies around after Alphatia was destroyed (on the surface that is. But the in Hollow World is _so_ difficult to destroy cultures!). > I prefer to think of dragons as a part of the world. > This gets away from the > notion of dragons as pawns of higher powers and > makes them INTO higher > powers. This is all in accord with Bruce's article > (which, since he was > doing the principal Mystara development at the time, > I had always assumed > was canon). I also generally consider those articles canon, but I have also tried to tie them in with the information given in the Dragonlord Trilogy. H�vard ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 18:20:33 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: The Dragon of Dymrak In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- The Stalker wrote: > Sounds reasonable. I don't see much reason to > replace Alphaks, but if you > do, Orcus is a good choice, particularly since he > and Demogorgon are used > shamefully rarely :( Alphaks's main interest is the destruction of Alphatia. I didnt really see him as having much to do in Karameikos, at least before WotI. I also, like you, felt that Orcus and Demogoron, the two Demon Rulers from the Gold box had been forgotten and wanted to bring them back into my campaign. > Btw, I used some of the details IMC too. > [snip] Funny story :) By the way Baroness Arteris is also from Gaz 1 only there she is only mentioned as Lady Arteris. I use the title Baroness for her IMC aswell. > I agree, only I think he should have even more > dragons. Maybe a lot more! > As many as we can give him without straining > credibility (by people > thinking it's simply too much and people wondering > how all those dragons > manage to get into and out of the lake without > anyone ever noticing...) These other Dragons can have lairs of their own ofcourse.. :) Probably, most dragons in Karameikos consider him the ruler of the region even if all of them may not be directly dominated by him. > Oh, another idea - Verdilith could have been one of > Argos' agents, only he > turned rogue and went his own ways, which is why > there are no clues to > Argos being involved in the Penhaligon plot and why > Argos doesn't try to > avenge Verdilith's death... (In fact, he's glad that > treacherous wyrm is > dead, since he could have exposed Argos through his > foolishness!) I like this. IMC Verdilith probably wouldnt be killed yet. In fact he may not be killed as most of the events in those books will never happen. What statistics do you think would be appropriate for this fellow? How old should he be? H�vard Faanes ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 18:28:16 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: Penhaligon Trilogy Question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- The Stalker wrote: > Okay [finally the book is good for something ;) ] > > > There are only two tribes: > > Rooster's Tribe (northern-most, west of Castellan > river) > > Greasetongue's Tribe (south/central to the area on > the east side of the > Castellan river) Thanks! I thought there were more, but I guess there are a few years since I actually opened these books. Rooster and Greasetounge seem to be the names of two of their leaders. I was thinking about having tribes with bird names such as the Rooster Tribe. Also I have a Crow Tribe IMC. Greasetounge could be the leader of that one. What do you think? Any ideas for developing these further? Any ideas for more Orc Tribe names? (Preferredly bird ones) > Btw, thanks for pointing these out. I'd completely > forgotten about them and > can use them in the upcoming goblin-hunt in the > Dymrak Forest IMC... I'd be interested in hearing how this works out. H�vard ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 19:47:56 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "Giulio N. Caroletti" Subject: Re: Osterlo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, what do you want from me, more than the usual praise? Money, maybe...uhm uhm... Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 14:56:20 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Zzonga (various) & Council MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dave Said: <> Actually IMC and in my assorted Alpher related projects, I tend to use a=20 variety of sources ranging from DotE to the various adventure modules.=20 Ironically this variety of sources has often been criticized.=20 Actually my statement was not that zzonga was not addictive. My original=20 intent was to look at zzonga to see just how potentially addictive it was as= =20 compared to its general perception.=20 IMC and works, it is not a big deal in any form, being at best a setting=20 flavoring instead of a focal attribute. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 15:04:25 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Day of Dread MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George Said: <> I could not agree more. When I was with the Almanac I prposed a gradual doing away with the DoD. It had essentially served its various (IMO unnecessary) purposes. Even in canon timelines, subsequent DoDs following the WoD were less impacting. The NoS was essentially altered and fixed. So it is reasonable that the affects of the DoD would eventually go away. <> The vampires, especially those being transplanted to HW, were addressed in the almananc. Even though I wrote that thread, I could not tell you which one it was. Anyway, since some Alpher kingdoms had sizable numbers of vampires acting as officers in their armed forces, those armed forces were undermined as the vampires were destroyed by the unending sunlinght or driven into seclusion of their lairs. <> I would just get rid of the whole magic problem. As mentioned, I am not with the almanac anymore so I am unsure what path (if any) they are going to pursue on this matter. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 15:25:30 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Day of Dread MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <> A RL fan myself, I handled the matter like this. The Demiplane of Dread is=20 the Void. The Dark Powers are the Old Ones. RL serves as a their version of=20 the immortals' HW. In addition to preserving Mystara's most ancient cultures= ,=20 it also serves as a test bed for the eternal war between good and evil.=20 Primes are reincarnated on RL to be given a sense of atonement. In alot of=20 ways it is like the PS Blood Wars, but on a much smaller scale. Evil is=20 primarily represented by the Dark Lords and supported by the various=20 denizens. Law and goodness are represented by the average PCs and the NPCs=20 such as Van Ritchen.=20 IMC banishment to RL also includes the Immortals themselves. His name escape= s=20 me right now, but there was an Immortal that was cited as being banished to=20 the Void. It's in Wrath Book 2 and I cannot believe that I cannot recall the= =20 name. Anyway, his crimes brought about his banishment. The affect on RL was=20 the Grand Conjunction that so greatly altered RL.=20 Since RL is the stomping grounds of the Old Ones, this immortals was not a=20 real player in a divine sense. Instead he was reincarnated minus his immorta= l=20 memories into a RL denizen. My game group died before we got that far but it= =20 was planned to have the immortal assume the position of the Gentleman Caller= .=20 In hindsight I would have set it up like Planescape Torment, and have the=20 immortal try to discover his identity and escape. Another crossover was to have Brannart get sucked into RL. His and Morphy's=20 rivalry is tense. Brannart was seeking powerful undead to aid in his cause,=20 undead thta could resist Morphail's necromancy powers. Brannart used the=20 Radiance to scry through RL and eventually established a portal.=20 Unfortunately he was sucked in. At the time, I was undecided in making his=20 being drawn in an accident or caused by higher powers. Either way the plot=20 died when the game group died and it was never exploited. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 15:43:31 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Auld Skald Subject: Re: Adventuring Mages Part1[was:Zzonga (various) & Council] In-Reply-To: <20010731005055.68149.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey, everyone. I've been having a hard time keeping up with the list,=20 lately. RL getting in the way. =3D;) I have been deleting large numbers= of=20 messages without reading them, so apologies if anyone thinks I've ignored a= =20 post. If anything, I'm probably going to get busier, so if you need me to= =20 see a message you might need to by-pass my e-mail client's filters. In=20 that case, send e-mail to this address using a subject that doesn't have=20 "[MYSTARA]" in it. At 05:50 PM 7/30/01 -0700, you wrote: At the higher levels, mages are omnipotent. I say so be it. Mages suck at= low level, with a high mortality rate. Their spells inventory is minimal and for the most part the spells are more suited for utilities than melee. The offensive spells they do have usually just tick off 1HD monsters, often= times requiring the accompanying party members to finish them off. Its only in gaining lvl 3+ spells that the mage begins holding his own. If a player can get a mage up to the higher levels, i can respect that as that climb is a difficult one. I don't agree that low-level mages are "sucky." It's a matter of how they= =20 are played. Mages are universally clever, and playing one /properly/ means= =20 changing your mindset from that of a fighter. I believe the reason so many people think low-level mages are weak is=20 because they don't know how to make the most of their strengths and how to= =20 minimise their liabilities. I once played in a campaign where a 5th level= =20 mage without *any* damage spell absolutely *decimated* our 4th level=20 party. He did it by controlling the situation and using excellent=20 misdirection, preventing our attacks from having any effect and keeping us= =20 from us escaping. It went like this: He lured us into a room of his choice by leaving clues, and allowing us to= =20 believe we were tracking/chasing him. We caught sight of him down a hall=20 and chased him into the room. We didn't see him the whole time,=20 though! When we ran in there were footsteps in the dust leading to a=20 trap-door in the floor and a dust-cloud still rising above it. Making the= =20 natural assumption, we ran in and opened the door, which dropped a=20 portcullis across the doorway we entered through; the "trapdoor" proved be= =20 simply a floor ornament and trap trigger. Also, the cagey thief of the=20 party was stuck on the other side of the portcullis, in the hall. We were= =20 stuck, and wondering where the heck the evil mage had gone. Just then, we= =20 hear him laughing from one corner of the room, though we see nothing. Again, we make the natural assumption that he has made himself invisible=20 and attempt to attack him. Nothing hits and then we hear him=20 casting. Everything goes dark. In ensuing rounds, several of us get=20 struck by burning oil, and we end up attacking each other in the dark as we= =20 keep trying to guess where the heck this guy is and attacking blindly. At= =20 one point my character tried to rush / tackle him while he was casting and= =20 ended up running headlong into the wall - the DM judged that damage similar= =20 to falling 10' was appropriate. A strong m=EAl=E9e enemy entered the room= =20 secretly during this, adding to the confusion and also hurting us badly. What happened? - The mage had cast Ventriloquism on the wall in the corner and Levitated=20 or Flew through a secret opening in the ceiling. - He cast Continual Darkness to prevent anyone (including the elf in the= party) - He was dropping flaming oil on us through muder holes. - He had made an arrangement or Charmed a powerful humanoid to help him=20 with the physical stuff The DM confided he could have made the encounter even harder by casting=20 Ventriloquism on a piece of modelling clay and having the lacky slap it=20 onto one character's back. Ouch! Also, the lacky was a Doppleganger, so=20 we couldn't figure out who was friend or foe. We eventually beat the guy when we figured out there was someone above us,= =20 and one of the other players made a few called shots with blind shooting,= etc. Strictly speaking, use of Levitate or Fly was unnecessary, if he had a rope= =20 and his lacky pulled him up quickly. That would mean a Level 3 M-U with=20 just Charm, Ventriloquism and Continual Darkness could do pretty much the=20 same damage to a higher level party. This encounter can scale up quite a=20 bit without increasing the level of the mage, too. Low level mages are only weak when they are not played with forethought, or= =20 when they try to act like other character classes. -Auld Skald ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 16:41:51 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: Invasion of the Cliched (was Re: The Dragon of Dymrak) On Sat, 4 Aug 2001 10:01:30 EDT, Shawn J. wrote: (snip) >> > Hey now ;^), what's wrong with an alien/extra-dimensional invasion? Nothing as such, but I thought it was a little strange in the Penhaligon trilogy, but read on, and what a mess that turned into! And then I started on the Dragonlord trilogy, and of course, by the second book, yes you guessed it, another goddam alien invasion!!!! :( > It >can work, one just has to know how to do it right and with all the >appropriate bells and whistles! For a threatening invasion, it didn't manage to become convincing, so you just didn't care enough... And every single member of Thelvyn's initial party is from some royal or imperial family across the Known World or they're secretly some draconic creature, for crying out loud!!! :( > After all, would anyone want to see staid, >old "Lord of the Rings" when it premieres (the movies) if certain aspects of >fantasy had been done totally to death? Nah, we'd still /love/ the >cliches---it's just when they are treated in /cheesy/ ways that makes them so >hard to swallow. There is a difference though, because LOTR was the original (unless you count Beowulf and the norse mythology that inspired Tolkien), and nothing can take away from that! It's just that to me, you simply don't need dragons from other worlds to stage a great war or some such. Mystara usually makes enough trouble of its own. > And I just _know_ the Stalker can't be against the mixing >of a few sci-fi concepts with fantasy But I am! I like both fantasy and sci-fi, but I hate when they are mixed - I hate it when I see space shuttles and land speeders in fantasy (like in the computer game Ultima I)! > because you love Alphatians---didn't >someone tell me they are /aliens/ who /invaded/ Mystara?! 8^> Though the Alphatians may have been "invaders" originally, they are scarcely invaders after 2000 years! And I don't see them as invaders, more as settlers myself. They came to one of the areas with less population than most, but granted, they did enslave those people that did live there. The Alphatians are not invaders - if they had been, Mystara would be called New Alphatia now! ;) - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 16:50:09 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: Pehaligon's Castellan is... (was Dragon of Dymrak) On Sat, 4 Aug 2001 09:58:25 EDT, Shawn J. wrote: >In a message dated 8/3/01 11:05:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM writes: > (snip) > Stalker, you have answered questions for me before so I shall most >certainly grant your most honorable request. [Just practicing my courtly >speech because Penhaligon's Castellan---/Sir Lyle Graybow/---always insists >that etiquette be followed to the letter and I wouldn't want to dissappoint >him! ] That's the guy, yes! Thank you. > He's mentioned through the last third of "Tainted Sword" and much of >the early chapters of "The Dragon's Tomb" (sorry, have no idea of page >numbers). > That's okay, I know where to look now. Thanks for the reference. I just tracked the first meeting with him to p.253 in the first book, in case anyone else is wondering. >> Recently,the characters travelled near Penhaligon and the paladin went to >talk with >> Baroness Arteris (well, she is IMC - another thing I took from the trilogy) >> about some military matters, but she merely told him to see Menhir, their >> greatest knight, since all military matters were handled by those capable >> hands. So the paladin strides in and asks this petite (compared to him) >> woman to see Sir Menhir (in a slightly superior tone), only to have this >> woman tell him, a little annoyed, "Yes, I'm Johauna Menhir! What can I do >> for you, "Sir"...". He was more than a little surprised and didn't know >> what to do with himself, while the other characters (who thankfully weren't >> there or it might have been emberrasing, oh wait, it was...) were stunned. >> I, naturally, laughed my rear off for about ten minutes :) > > Good one!!! If I may, I will keep that in mind for future visits to >Penhaligon. > By all means. Just let me know if it worked in your campaign too :) - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 17:13:59 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: The Dragon of Dymrak On Sat, 4 Aug 2001 18:20:33 +0200, =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= wrote: >--- The Stalker wrote: > (snip) > >Alphaks's main interest is the destruction of >Alphatia. I didnt really see him as having much to do >in Karameikos, at least before WotI. > Okay, that makes sense. I don't see any particular reason to "limit" Alphaks to Alphatia IMC, but like I said, it makes sense. >I also, like you, felt that Orcus and Demogoron, the >two Demon Rulers from the Gold box had been forgotten >and wanted to bring them back into my campaign. > Yes, I can well understand that. (snip) >> Oh, another idea - Verdilith could have been one of >> Argos' agents, only he >> turned rogue and went his own ways, which is why >> there are no clues to >> Argos being involved in the Penhaligon plot and why >> Argos doesn't try to >> avenge Verdilith's death... (In fact, he's glad that >> treacherous wyrm is >> dead, since he could have exposed Argos through his >> foolishness!) > >I like this. IMC Verdilith probably wouldnt be killed >yet. In fact he may not be killed as most of the >events in those books will never happen. What >statistics do you think would be appropriate for this >fellow? How old should he be? > For Verdilith? Well, I think that while he should certainly be a mature dragon, he shouldn't be too old. Going by 2e rules (which are the ones I know) for dragons, I make him an Adult or Mature Adult green dragon. Adult would make him 100 to 200 years old, while Mature Adult would put his between 200 to 400 years. Personally I think he should be around 120 or so years old, so that would make him an Adult green dragon with HD 15, 3 first- level spells, and AC -2. In 3e he would be a *lot* tougher, of course! - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 21:17:56 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: John Calvin Subject: It's Time... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Yes, folks, you've heard correctly! The Time has come. It's time to head on out and grab a time...line tracker! Khoronus, the Timeline Tracker can handle all of your needs. It sorts, it color codes, it handles BC as well as AC. ;) It can even remove unseemly events from your very sight! Head on out and pick one up today! What are you waiting for...? Seriously folks, the alpha version is up and ready for your perview. Everything should work (if not drop me a line off list). You can find the Installation guide and the program zip file at: http://www.geocities.com/chimpman.geo/Install.html It ships with 3 timelines already, and 2 more are in the works as we speak. Once you get it installed you shouldn't have any problems working the program, but just in case I even included in-program user's manual. ;) Check it out, and let me know what you think. John ===== Rule #53. If the beautiful princess that I capture says "I'll never marry you! Never, do you hear me, NEVER!!!", I will say "Oh well" and kill her. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 02:26:08 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Theory about 3E dragons on Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I will try to flesh this out more once I am able to access the Internet at better than 4800 baud (the old-times among you can explain the implications of that problem to any newbies who have not yet experienced it -- basically I cannot access the Web or download my e-mail which includes large binary files, so I cannot immediately answer any replies to this posting). Anyway: If we compare the 3E MM entries for dragons with the D&D RC and similar sources, we can come up with a very interesting theory about Mystaran dragons. It would seem that Mystaran dragons mature more slowly than standard 3E dragons and (absent some sort of outside intervention) are generally weaker and more brutish (unable to speak, cast spells, or use spell-like abilities). In compensation, they are able to reproduce by age category 2 (which is a major benefit in enabling them to survive since they cannot advance beyond age category 4 without said intervention). Uplift: Assume that the chromatic dragons (black, blue, green, red, and white) are native to Mystara and were originally of this brutish sort. At some point prior to the events of the Dragonlord trilogy, gold dragons from another plane (all of whom were already of the "uplifted" variety) came to Mystara and started working on converting the native dragons to beings more equal to themselves, starting with the red dragons and ending with the white dragons. The "uplifted" dragons gained superior mental ability scores and effective spellcasting levels in addition to normal access to spell-like abilities. In most cases, "uplifted" dragons should have a CR +1 above that of a "normal" or "brutish" dragon. Translation to Draconic Cluster: Any "uplifted" Mystaran dragon who manages to reach age category 5 is translated from Mystara to the Draconic Cluster, where he or she may continue to develop without fear of being hunted by mortal Mystarans. Depending on how efficient mortal Mystarans are at slaughtering dragons of a given type, dragons in the Draconic Cluster may be given special permission to breed offspring to be introduced to Mystara as replacements for slain dragons. Needless to say, if later Mystaran heroes slay the replacement dragons, their parents in the Draconic Cluster will note the slayers for future hostile attention. Immortal Guardians and Rulers: A dragon who reaches age category 8 may become the Immortal Guardian of his dragon type. A dragon who reaches age category 10 may become the dragon ruler of his particular alignment. A dragon who reaches age category 12 may become the "Great One". In all cases, a dragon seeking any of these special statuses may have to challenge the existing holder of whatever honor he or she seeks. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 09:39:55 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "Giulio N. Caroletti" Subject: Re: Invasion of the Cliched (was Re: The Dragon ofDymrak) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Though the Alphatians may have been "invaders" originally, they are > scarcely invaders after 2000 years! And I don't see them as invaders, more > as settlers myself. They came to one of the areas with less population than > most, but granted, they did enslave those people that did live there. Blah blah blah blah. 8-) Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 02:26:05 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: Adventuring Mages Part1[was:Zzonga (various) & Council] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I believe the reason so many people think low-level mages are weak is because they don't know how to make the most of their strengths and how to minimise their liabilities. I once played in a campaign where a 5th level mage without *any* damage spell absolutely *decimated* our 4th level party. But then again you're talking about a party. I think it depends on the opportunities you are given, and in a party you find those opportunities more easily. But if you're alone and a mage... well, you better hope you have a nice DM who takes things like that into consideration. You can't always run, and you can't always keep yourself alive... probably less than a fighter could at a lower level. Then again thieves "suck" at lower levels in the same way. In fact, reading The Dragon it looked like the thief class was added later, and was really to supplement other classes. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 11:18:33 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "Giulio N. Caroletti" Subject: Re: It's Time... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Check it out, and let me know what you think. > > John First impression impressed (uhm, seems a good title for a song, doesn't it?). Well, I'll try to toy with it a little more before further commenting. Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 05:35:04 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: small Blackmoor tidbit has surfaced in Living Greyhawk Journal In-Reply-To: <3B6B3466.A71CEEAD@palmchip.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:31 PM 8/3/01 -0700, you wrote: > >As far as I know, nothing has been done with the Blackmoor in Greyhawk until >now. Blackmoor gets a (IMO) fairly extensive writeup in the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer that came out earlier this year. AFAIK, a lot of the information is new (and not just verbatim from earlier Greyhawk products.) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 15:16:03 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Osterlo Giulio N. Caroletti wrote: > Well, what do you want from me, more than the usual praise? > Money, maybe...uhm uhm... "And as the net sloooooowly lifted him from the water, the voice kept whispering, 'I want your legs. ... I want your legs.'" Sorry, couldn't help myself. ;) (That's Larson for those of you, who're wondering). Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 15:16:38 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Domains of Ostland - Sognesholm (long) Working quickly now. Here's another domain in the series. AC1000, OD&D, Personality Trait rules from GAZ7, 'nuff said. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk --- THE CLAN DOMAIN OF SOGNESHOLM Sognesholm is the smallest of the Ostland domains on Kalslo Island, but is still a fairly large domain. It occupies the eastern tip of that island, and contains six hexes of clear lands. The soil here is good for farming, but the harsh weather still destroys crops from time to time. The domain can still export a little food to the other Kalslo domains most years. Many fishermen also ply their trades here. There is no wood to be found in this domain, it is imported from other domains on Kalslo. All visitors are accepted here, but the domain has nothing special to offer, so few travellers stop by. Warriors of clan Sognesholm are sea raiders, who scour the Sea of Dawn for easy pickings. Head of Domain: Jarl Rollo the Cruel rules Sognesholm. His great hall of Osknes is usually abandoned, as he spends most of his time at his clan hall in Ostmanhaven. Population: 8000 people live in Sognesholm. Of these 2000 are thralls, 4800 are non-warrior freemen, and 1200 are warriors. 3500 people carry some sort of weapon and will fight if threatened. OSKNES Osknes is one of dozens of villages that lie all across the domain. It has a population of 450 people, and is the official seat of power in the domain. Situated at Dybebugt (Deep Bay) it is a fishing village surrounded by farmlands. Jarl Rollo the Cruel�s �great� hall is merely a larger than average house with room for his family and personal guard. It lies empty most of the year, as Rollo resides in Ostmanhaven with his family. Sigtrydd Ormson, retainer to the jarl, rules the village in his absence. ROLLO THE CRUEL Chaotic 13th level Thief (Str 11, Int 16, Wis 13, Dex 17, Con 9, Cha 14, AC 0, hp 33) Personality Traits: Cautious/Rash 14/6, Generous/Greedy 3/17, Courageous/Fearful 4/16, Forgiving/Vengeful 1/19, Honest/Deceitful 5/15, Trusting/Suspicious 4/16 34 years old, Shoulder-length brown hair, Always clean-shaven, Dark brown eyes Rollo is a cousin of jarl Thorir the Wealthy of Ostmanland, and they grew up together. He has always been very ambitious, and at one time wanted that jarldom as his own. Thorir turned out to be one of a very few people that Rollo actually liked, so he ended up settling for the neighbouring domain of Sognesholm, which he married his way into, poisoned his wife, and took control of. Rulership of Sognesholm turned out to be too dull and gave too little profit, so Rollo returned to Ostmanhaven. Here he maintains a clan hall, which is also the secret headquarters of the thieves� guild. Rollo is a big man, when he�s backed by his personal entourage of loyal bullies, but he�s quick to disappear if in any personal danger. He is always careful about who he lets close to himself, and prefers simple bullies to intelligent men, who might be too ambitious. Rollo is a compulsive liar and braggart, who fabricates stories and deeds at a whim to impress those around him. Whereever Rollo goes, he carries a razor that he stole from a foreign merchant many years ago. He is fond of interrogating people while shaving his chin, and having his men turn the rack. Rollo sometimes uses this razor to slit people�s throats (backstabbing), especially if they have slighted him in some way (Rollo never forgets an insult). He is rarely without his leather armour+3 and a Ring of Protection+2. After returning to Ostmanhaven Rollo married a beautiful girl, Thyra the Vain (23). Rollo is extremely jealous and possessive, and keeps an eye out for flirtatious fools, who are marked for later �interrogation�. They have two children: Halldis Thyrasdottir (3) and Fjolnir Rolloson (2). Thyra (Chaotic Normal Woman; Modest/Proud 3/17, Generous/Greedy 3/17, Courageous/Fearful 3/17) is an extremely beautiful young woman, who married Rollo for his money and power. She often has merchants showing her their wares at the clan hall in Ostmanhaven, and is known for her ever-changing wardrobe. She is subservient to her husband, whose anger she fears to rouse, and is satisfied with her current position, though she�d like to seduce Thorir the Wealthy, jarl of Ostmanland, who has even more power and money. SIGTRYDD ORMSON Chaotic 6th level Fighter (Str 17, Int 7, Wis 5, Dex 13, Con 14, Cha 4, AC 3, hp 32) Personality Traits: Modest/Proud 2/18, Peaceful/Violent 5/15, Generous/Greedy 4/16, Energetic/Lazy 3/17 46 years old, Sparse black hair, Brown eyes This old warrior is a retainer to jarl Rollo the Cruel. He was a warrior of clan Sognesholm, when Rollo married into the clan, and was quick to join him after the tragic death of the jarl�s wife. Sigtrydd thinks that he is being rewarded for his loyal service with his current position, but actually Rollo has all but forgotten about him. Sigtrydd is a bully, who enjoys prancing around the village, beating people up for imaginary insults, and having his way with any thrall that catches his eye. He feels secure that Rollo will protect him from harm, though this is actually highly unlikely. The fact remains that he is a tough warrior, who most people can�t cope with, and it can be dangerous to cross one of the jarl�s men, anyway. He is called �the Cruel� for a reason after all. So the folks of Osknes try to keep their distance from Sigtrydd and ignore his depredations. Sigtrydd believes this to be a sign of the respect they hold for him. Sigtrydd usually wears a chain mail+1 and carries a battle axe. He is unmarried, but has several children, none of whom he�ll ever recognize as such. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 15:17:02 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Domains of Ostland - Ostmanland (long) And here's the center of the Ostman clans, contenders for the throne of Ostland. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk --- THE CLAN DOMAIN OF OSTMANLAND Ostmanland is probably the richest domain in all of the Kingdom of Ostland. It lies in the northern part of Kalslo Island, and consists of six hexes of clear land and four hexes of forest. The soil makes for good farmland, and there are also several fishing villages. There is a fair supply of lumber, but most wood is imported from other Kalslo domains or foreign merchants. Visitors of all nationalities are welcome here, and many foreign merchant ships visit the domain. Clan Ostmanland also adds to its wealth by raiding whatever nations aren�t favored trading partners. Head of Domain: Jarl Thorir the Wealthy is the absolute ruler of Ostmanland. His great hall lies in the town of Ostmanhaven. Population: There are 8000 people in Ostmanland. 2000 are thralls, 4400 are non-warrior freemen, and 1600 are warriors. 4000 people are armed and able to fight. OSTMANHAVEN This town of 3000 inhabitants is unlike any other Ostland town. It is a rough trading and fishing port that contains seedy taverns, warehouses, and markets. Foreign merchant ships are always found in the port, trading for goods that are often plundered from their rivals by the Ostmanland clan. The lower town and the port are plagued by cutpurses and muggers, some of them utilizing the trained giant rats that are normally used to keep the regular rat population in check. The upper town contains clan halls of the Kalslo Island clans, all of dwarven craftmanship, including the hall of jarl Thorir the Wealthy. This part of town is patrolled by small groups of heavily armed men, but guests of jarls Thorir the Wealthy and Rollo the Cruel are never bothered by local thugs anyway. In the upper town are also found temples to Odin and Thor, and a magnificent temple to Frey and Freyja. There are no thralls in the town, though some can be found in personal households. The jarl fears that ! some foreigners might be put off by an open display of slavery. Thralldom thrives everywhere else in the domain, though. THE UNDERWORLD The large clan hall of jarl Rollo the Cruel of Sognesholm also contains the secret headquarters of the local thieves� guild. Rollo controls most of the muggers and thieves of the town, and takes a cut (25%) of everything they earn. The punishment for double-crossing Rollo is severe, and freelancers are killed or chased out of town, so Rollo holds the guild in an iron grip. Jarl Thorir the Wealthy is well aware of this arrangement, and also profits from occasional free use of guild thieves for his own plots and agendas. Thorir always makes these arrangements through middle men, such as Rollo, to avoid being too closely affiliated with the guild. THORIR THE WEALTHY Neutral 15th level Fighter (Str 12, Int 16, Wis 14, Dex 9, Con 10, Cha 18, AC -2, hp 59) Personality Traits: Cautious/Rash 14/6, Reverent/Godless 7/13, Energetic/Lazy 14/6, Dogmatic/Open-minded 2/18 35 years old, Brown hair, Brown eyes Thorir was born into competition. His entire life has been spent competing with his family members for position within the clan. He has become a master at manipulating others, letting them do his dirty work, while making them feel that he�s doing them a favor. Other family members hold positions of authority, but they all bow to him as their leader. He plays them against each other, and at times sacrifices them as needed. He is not uncaring, just ambitious, and would like to see himself as the ruler of Ostland, eventually. King Hord has already uncovered some of his plots, and has punished those in charge (other family members, mostly) with exile or execution. The town of Ostmanhaven is his personal domain, and he oversees it closely. He wants the best for its citizens in his own way, and uses the merchants, thieves, and godar (priests) to impose his view of law and order in the town. He pays lip-service to all the Northman Immortals, but doesn�t truly revere any of them. He controls the underworld through his cousin Rollo, but doesn�t get involved with them personally. He raids various nations and shipping lanes, then sells the goods to their competitors. And he employs several magic-users (among them the infamous raider Oberack, known for his loyalty to the clan), some of whom are considered candidates for succeeding him. Thorir utilizes all who come into contact with him. For him, it�s just a way of life. The jarl is an accomplished swordsman, fighting with a sword+4 of defending, clad in banded mail+2, and carrying a shield+3 of electricity. He has several other magical items locked away in a secret treasury. Thorir has a large family. His immediate family consists of his wife Gerloc Jorunnsdottir (32) and his children Isleif the Deep-Minded (17), Flosi Thorirson (14), Ingigred Gerlocsdottir (9), and Hallgerd Gerlocsdottir (3). Gerloc (Lawful F2; Peaceful/Violent 13/7, Energetic/Lazy 14/6, Loyal/Unreliable 16/4) was a young warrior maiden, who was taken in by Thorir�s wit and charm. She ended her fighting career, bore him children, and became his loyal wife. Gerloc does not care much for the intrigue at Ostmanhaven, but realizes that it is necessary to keep her husband in power. Isleif (Neutral MU3; Cautious/Rash 13/7, Reverent/Godless 7/13, Dogmatic/Open.minded 4/16) studies hard at the Uppsala College of Magic in Norrvik, Vestland. He will return to Ostmanhaven in a year, ready to serve at his father�s side. Flosi (Lawful Normal Man; Peaceful/Violent 15/5, Reverent/Godless 16/4, Loyal/Unreliable 15/5) is impressed by his �uncle�, jarl Rognvald the Raven, and wishes to become a godi of Frey. He spends a lot of time at the local temple of Frey and Freyja, preparing for this calling. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 08:28:40 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: M Novy Subject: Re: The Dragon of Dymrak Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed This article is very useful. Thanks. I am still wondering if the 2nd edition product The Mighty Argos ever made it out while Mystara was still in production. I am very interested in the other articles linked to this. The one about the goblins was sweet. IMC there is actually another green dragon in Karameikos. His name is Arboleth. He is a dragon that comes out once every 50-75 years or so to trash the village of verge and some surrounding areas if they dont pay hommage to him. This doesnt mean he just sits around in his cave, but he only shows up in this part of karameikos that much. It gives the people a "legend". His mother before him actually started doing this, and the people just paid her homage everytime she showed up. This is tied in to the story line of some pcs IMC. If anyone wants to know more..this is just a brief summary of the info. Mike _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 08:38:56 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: M Novy Subject: Re: Day of Dread Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sorry to be days behind.....The way I would handle it is that people that have extended their age just get weakened and sick like magical creatures. Maybe you can even have them make some sort of save if you want. Mike N >Second, I would discount the entire 'People aged by magic are returned to >their true age' and simply ignore that entire passage. That's what I intend >to do IMC, anyway. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 09:12:11 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: M Novy Subject: 3e site for Mystara Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I have been working on a webpage dedicated to 3e Mystara, but mostly to Karameikos (seeing how it is the best). I wish I got more time to toy with my gaming stuff, but I dont. Currently I have only converted one NPC, but more are sure to follow. I will also be posting my created stuff and anyone elses that would like to share....I wont take any credit for others ideas. Here are the 3e Stats for Terari based on the KOA boxed set and the PWA 3...... Terari � The Minister of Magic and Master of the Karameikan School of Magecraft Original Design by Jeff Grubb and Aaron Allston Previous version appears in Karameikos Box set* Updated by Mike Novy for 3e usage 20th level human (alphatian) wizard STR 13 (+1) DEX 10 CON 16 (+3) INT 20 (+5) WIS 12 (+1) CHR 16 (+3) SAVES FORT +9 REF +6 WILL +13 Alignment NG Speed 30 Size M Initiative Bonus +4 AC 7 (w/ring of prot +3) HP 105 Melee Bonus +11/+6 Missle Bonus +10/+5 SPECIAL Arcane Spellcasting FEATS Brew Potion, Combat Casting, Eschew Materials (p. 40 of 3e Guidebook to spellcasters), Improved Init., Leadership, Maximize Spell (DM�s Choice), Scribe Scroll, Silent Spell (DM�s Choice), Spell Mastery x2 (DM�s Choice), Spell Penetration, Still Spell (DM�s Choice), Summon Familiar, Quicken Spell (DM�s Choice) LANGUAGES Alphatian, Draconic, Elvish (Callari & Shiye Dialects), Thyatian (Common), Traladaran, plus one extra of DM�s choice SKILLS (120 pts total) Alchemy +7, Concentration +20, Craft (Artwork) +10, Diplomacy +10, Heal +4, Intuit Direction +5, Knowledge (Arcana) +15, Knowledge (Religion) +11, Knowledge (Nature) +11, Knowledge (Nobility) +11, Knowledge (Alphatian) +11, Knowledge (Ancient History of Mystara) +15, Listen +3, Perform (Poetry, Acting) +7, Profession (Astrology) +5, Profession (Herbalist) +5, Profession (Teacher) +7, Ride (DM�s Choice) +4, Scry +15, Search +7, Sense Motive +4 ,Speak Language 1 extra, Spellcraft +18, Spot +3, Swim +4 POSSESSIONS Quarterstaff +5, ring of spell storing, ring of protection +3, carpet of flying, and various other menial items. SPELLS KNOWN (4/6/5/5/5/5/4/4/4/4) Terari knows every wizard spell in Core Rulebook I. Terari chooses his spells based on the situation he is in. The web address to my site is www.homestead.com/karameikos/ Sorry if it doesnt hyperlink....I will shortly join the Mystara webring once I get more info......... All input is appreciated... Mike N _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 15:43:47 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Robert Grabowski Subject: Re: Slavery Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > > > My problem with Mystaran Slavery is in its make up. > > Thyatian slaves are cheap, profits undermined by the costs of > > taking them and even the barest care before going to market. > Slaves cost the same in both Thyatis and Alphatia. >fodder; would this mean that Thyatis is actually preying on occupied >Ochalea, Nuari, and Hinterlands for slaves? > Those places have Citizenship as well; they aren't "occupied" areas. They effectively (re)joined Thyatis during the reign of Valentia on account of her Citizenship Proclamation. >emancipation, et) we could add quite a bit of flavor to this unspoken >population of Thyatis (given slave populations of RW Rome, slaves >outnumbered their citizens 2-1). > In Thyatis, in some areas slaves are as much as 30% of the population, ut not more (also your numbers on Rome are dubious). It is true that in Alphatia the unfree subjects outnumber the Aristocrats by 2-1 or more, though. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 15:47:57 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Robert Grabowski Subject: Re: Zzonga Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >I just find it odd that the individualistic and magic focused mages >wouldallow themselves to be enslaved to a substance that hinders their >magicabilities. > Having read your messages for awhile now, I can say you're not impartial. You find anything that doesn't portray the Alphatians in the best light odd and anything that portrays places they don't like as having the strength to stand up to them odd as well. And for a guy who's "loathe" to enter these discussions, you enter them with enthusiasm when it comes to stating your own opinions. I think you just want everyone who disagrees with you to stop. Just some observations from someone who mostly lurks. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 16:02:13 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Robert Grabowski Subject: Re: Slavery Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >>anyway...Thyatis is given as being a bit slave crazy with sizable slave >>populations. << No more so than Alphatia. >>yes....Thy slave numbers and prices are given as being numerous (as high >>as30% IIRC in many areas) and inexpensive (cheaper than most mundane >>weaponry). << Again, Thyatian slaves are no cheaper than Alphatian slaves. Alphatia has 20% "free" population and the rest "unfree", so it's clear which place is more slave happy. >>By Law Thy slaves can buy their freedom. however, that law may be a bit of >>a"pipe dream" or based upon good intentions than actual use. << That's your bias showing through again. Again, you tend to interpret things for Alphatia in the best possible light and for Thyatis in the worst possible light. Your perogative, but it doesn't make you the source of wisdom you present yourself as, especially since you distort things so much. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 16:17:43 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Robert Grabowski Subject: Re: Slavery Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >>Revamping and detailing the Thy Slave System would be a boon. I would even >>suggest a similar act be performed with Alphatia. However, i would stress >>that the two empires' slave systems be done seperately so as not to come >>into competition or be compared with each other. << I think I can see why you'd want to do it that way. That way you could insist that the life of slaves in THYATIS "sux", while white-washing the status and number of slaves in Alphatia. Going by DotE, though, slaves are much worse off in Alphatia than in Thyatis, and Alphatia's Servants are almost as bad off as Thyatian slaves. Most of the colonies of Alphatia were settled by mundainers who wanted to escape the opression of the Alphatian mainland (that's what the DotE DM's book says), so life there, by what canon says, must "sux" badly for non-Aristocrats. Meanwhile, in Thyatis Eusebius had to try and draft people to send out as colonists, since people prefered to stay in Thyatis itself, so it couldn't have been all bad there (and this was during a period of famines and uprisings and stuff in Thyatis, but still he had trouble getting people to want to leave Thyatis vollentarily! But people want to escape the opressive Alphatia, it's just the Wizards won't let them). _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 16:41:21 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Robert Grabowski Subject: Re: Invasion of the Cliched (was Re: The Dragon of Dymrak) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Though the Alphatians may have been "invaders" originally, they are >scarcely invaders after 2000 years! And I don't see them as >invaders, more as settlers myself. They came to one of the areas > with >less population than most, but granted, they did enslave >those people that did live there. I wonder if you look on the Thyatian invasion of the Hinterlands the same way. After all, it's one of the areas with less population than most, and the Hinterlanders aren't even being enslaved. Seems sort of odd to say that the people who lived in what became Alphatia had no rights the Alphatians needed to respect because there were fewer of them, but then for people to get all offended about Thyatis. And as for whether they're still "invaders" or not, well I imagine the people who inhabited Norwold before the Alphatians decided to try and conquer it (their latest attempt, I mean, the one that started around the same time as the Thyatians invaded the Hinterlands) might think of them as still being invaders. Oh, this also reminds me: people keep talking about how Thyatis is an expansionist power (it is, ok) but Alphatia isn't. But Alphatia has expanded over more territory, in size, between AC 985 and AC 1000 than the entire Thyatian Empire! This isn't exactly "not expansionistic"! That's probably one of the sources of their slaves, too, and that would explain why there are few Norwold "barbarians" left by AC 1000 - they were killed, enslaved, or scattered. >The Alphatians are not invaders - if they had been, Mystara would >be called New Alphatia now. That's not true, either. It isn't for lack of the Alphatians trying that Mystara isn't "New Alphatia", it's because people who live in the areas they invade fight back - not just the Thyatians, but the "barbarians" in Norwold destroyed the Alphatian's first attempts at invading their area, too. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 18:44:59 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: small Blackmoor tidbit has surfaced in Living Greyhawk Journal In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010805053504.008399d0@pop.wans.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Andrew Theisen wrote: > Blackmoor gets a (IMO) fairly extensive writeup in > the Living Greyhawk > Gazetteer that came out earlier this year. AFAIK, a > lot of the information > is new (and not just verbatim from earlier Greyhawk > products.) Is this a product available to everyone (Not just RPGA Members)? Would you recomment buying it just for the information on Blackmoor in there? H�vard ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 18:51:47 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Arboleth (was: Dragon of Dymrak) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mighty Argos, the adventure was never published. This might actually be just aswell, as it would probably just have been a dungeon adventure with a fancy map, cardboard miniatures and a nasty dragon at the end. I'm in a creative mood these days so more related articles might be coming up in not too long. Also I like tying these articles of mine together as you may already have noticed :) I like your idea about Arboleth. The name is cool too. Do you think Arboleth is another of Argos' lieutenants? I would really like to see a more detailed writeup of this one. If you manage to sneak in a few references to Argos in the desciption, that would be really cool aswell. Maybe he and Verdilith are competing about who's second in line of being the most powerful dragon in Karameikos? H�vard --- M Novy skrev: > This article is very useful. Thanks. I am still > wondering if the 2nd > edition product The Mighty Argos ever made it out > while Mystara was still in > production. I am very interested in the other > articles linked to this. The > one about the goblins was sweet. IMC there is > actually another green dragon > in Karameikos. His name is Arboleth. He is a > dragon that comes out once > every 50-75 years or so to trash the village of > verge and some surrounding > areas if they dont pay hommage to him. This doesnt > mean he just sits around > in his cave, but he only shows up in this part of > karameikos that much. It > gives the people a "legend". His mother before him > actually started doing > this, and the people just paid her homage everytime > she showed up. > > This is tied in to the story line of some pcs IMC. > If anyone wants to know > more..this is just a brief summary of the info. > > Mike > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 12:57:47 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Adventuring Mages Part1[was:Zzonga (various) & Council] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Auld Said: <> [snip example scenario(s)] well...I would agree that alot of the effectiveness of mage (or any class fo= r=20 that matter) depends on how it is played and managed by its player. However,= =20 the player aside the mage class is weak and offers little combat=20 effectiveness after its limited spell inventory is exhausted. That spell=20 inventory is itself comprised of spells that are weak, few evoking enough=20 offensive damage to cover the hit points guaranteed by a single HD.=20 Without their spells, they have few resources to call upon. Unable to wear=20 armor they have ACs usually much higher than what is attacking them. Likewis= e=20 their weaponry is statistically weak. Being that they are entry level mages,= =20 they rarely have the economic and magical base to equip themselves with=20 additional magical protections.=20 Players can make or break a PC. Likewise, DMs can make or break the adversar= y=20 NPCs. I made mention of my own experiences in getting the most out of mages=20 and how NPC mages are often underplayed by their DMs. A good player with a=20 good understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of his PC (any class) can= =20 usually accomplish acts well beyond the status quo. Of course a crafty DM ca= n=20 do the same thing, sending the PCs back to the tavern bruised, battered, and= =20 sometimes having to be carried out on their shields. When I gamed, I never played theifs due to their limited weaponry and limite= d=20 melee capabilities. Playing mages was rare. IMO at low level, a PC=20 Fighter/Elf/Cleric can do more damage and have a higher chance of surviving=20= a=20 combat encounter than a mage or thief. The melee-ers are more versatile,=20 being able to simply attack if need be instead of manuevering for position o= r=20 more ideal match ups. In short, with or without their trademark spells an entry level mage would b= e=20 highly dependant upon the rest of an adventuring party for their survival.=20 However, this can be used to great role playing potential as the mage starts= =20 off as a hindrence. However, the balance shifts as the mage gains in power=20 and experience and outshines his fellows.=20 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 13:23:11 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Slavery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robert Said: <<> > My problem with Mystaran Slavery is in its make up. > > Thyatian slaves are cheap, profits undermined by the costs of > > taking them and even the barest care before going to market. > Slaves cost the same in both Thyatis and Alphatia.>> yes....at least according to the price lists in DotE. However, I never have put alot of faith in that chart as it dictates identical prices for specific items for two very large empires. IMO (and I am not alone in this) price variables should not only be different between the two empires, but also vary greatly within the empires. Even the simplest edicts of supply-and-demand economics should offer some variation. Likewise the social structures should factor in, like standards of living. <<>fodder; would this mean that Thyatis is actually preying on occupied >Ochalea, Nuari, and Hinterlands for slaves? > Those places have Citizenship as well; they aren't "occupied" areas. They effectively (re)joined Thyatis during the reign of Valentia on account of her Citizenship Proclamation.>> i don't recall saying the above so I assume that it was pasted in from another mail. Anyway, it does bring up my earlier declaration that citizenship would greatly limit the possibilities for taking slaves. <<>emancipation, et) we could add quite a bit of flavor to this unspoken >population of Thyatis (given slave populations of RW Rome, slaves >outnumbered their citizens 2-1). > In Thyatis, in some areas slaves are as much as 30% of the population, ut not more (also your numbers on Rome are dubious). It is true that in Alphatia the unfree subjects outnumber the Aristocrats by 2-1 or more, though.>> I don't think I said the above either. Anyway...DotE has some rough slave numbers. It even outright states (I paraphrase out of laziness) that the thyatian economy is heavily dependant upon slavery and that the slave population is very large being up to 30% in some areas. It may be higher than 30%, I am being lazy. I don't recall seeing any real slave numbers for Alphatia. IIRC there is mention of the 300 slave workforce in Bluenose that cleans the beaches every night. There may be something in the PWAs. I hate to ask, since I did not give any precise quotes or page references in the above, but do you have the reference that states the Alpher slave proportions/numbers/etc? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 13:43:13 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Zzonga MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robert Said: >I just find it odd that the individualistic and magic focused mages >would allow themselves to be enslaved to a substance that hinders their >magic abilities. > Having read your messages for awhile now, I can say you're not impartial. You find anything that doesn't portray the Alphatians in the best light odd and anything that portrays places they don't like as having the strength to stand up to them odd as well.>> I make no bones about it, never have, that I do favor the Alphatian elements of Mystara. When I gamed, I campaigned there extensively and utilized the strengths and weaknesses of the society for my campaigns. I found the Alphatian Empire an excellant breeding ground for adventure and intrigue. Likewise I found its social structure a perfect motivator to get nonspellcasters into the adventuring profession. Ironically, the region I gamed in second most was Thyatis. I liked Thyatis for alot of its similar (though slightly deviating) facets it shared with Alphatia. In the end, I ultimately chose Alphatia due to the chaotic nature of the empire and its ability to allow free reign adventures. <> well...this is the kind of stuff I was hoping to avoid. In my responses and comments, I feel that I have kept them in the center. Heck, I even offered references to my stances and observations....and I usually don't use quotes. When opinions did enter, I specified that they were opinions. IMO the thread won't resolve anything as Alph/Thy threads rarely do. However, alot of the accompanying discussions brought up other subjects for possible use. All in all, I think that the thread went fairly well up until now; none of the usual sniping was seen. Dave, David, Dan what do you guys think? Geoff, what about you? The real question is will it continue to be civil? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 20:16:45 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= Subject: Re: 3e site for Mystara In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- M Novy wrote: > Here are the 3e Stats for Terari based on the KOA > boxed set and the PWA > 3...... Your website looks promising, and I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of the Karameikan NPCs converted to 3E. The Terari conversion looks good, although I think it would have looked pretty different if you had based it on the OD&D writeup rather than the 2nd Ed one. In OD&D Terari is IRC a 36th level wizard and by AC1010 he should be Mystaras most powerful mage. I think it would be a good idea to employ the extra rules for extra powerful characters for this one. Havard. ______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 14:19:27 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Slavery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Robert Said: <<>>anyway...Thyatis is given as being a bit slave crazy with sizable slave >>populations.=A0 << No more so than Alphatia.>> That's a matter of opinion since there is no canon reference to Alpher slave= =20 numbers or a heavy dependance upon them. Reference please....I am naturally=20 curious. <<>>yes....Thy slave numbers and prices are given as being numerous (as high >>as30% IIRC in many areas) and inexpensive (cheaper than most mundane >>weaponry). << Again, Thyatian slaves are no cheaper than Alphatian slaves. Alphatia has 20% "free" population and the rest "unfree", so it's clear which place is more slave happy.>> yes the prices are same according to the DotE price list. But I have already= =20 cited my concerns over its worth. IIRC Bruce even had reservations on it. As= =20 for which empire is more slave happy, I stand by my original statement as=20 Thyatis is the only one of the two with more precise slave numbers and=20 dependencies cited by canon texts. <<>>By Law Thy slaves can buy their freedom. however, that law may be a bit=20= of >>a"pipe dream" or based upon good intentions than actual use. << That's your bias showing through again. Again, you tend to interpret things for Alphatia in the best possible light and for Thyatis in the worst possible light. Your perogative, but it doesn't make you the source of wisdom you present yourself as, especially since you distort things so much.>> I gamed there extensively and those MML remarks are based upon my=20 interpretation of the canon texts and how I used them in my campaign. No one= =20 on the MML/MMB has their vision of Mystara running 100% in line with the=20 canon works. Believe you me, my campaign definitely did not have Alphatia as= =20 the pride and joy of Mystara. As I had it with all its faults and chaos, it=20 made for fruitful adventure fodder.=20 You're going to have to take my word for it, because I am not going to waste= =20 any more time on defending my biases nor my objectivity. It's not worth the=20 effort, and in the end, no one really cares. If you detest my comments,=20 delete them unread. It works, trust me, I have used it numerous times before= . Come to think of it, I don't even really care. As far as Mystara goes, I=20 don't play any more. I am not even with the almanac anymore. My setting=20 materials are now focused on non-canon domains and peoples in unexplored=20 regions. No contradicting canon, no conforming with earlier DnD styles of=20 writing, and no Alphatia vs. Thyatis. There's alot more free reign there, as= =20 yall will shortly see as those works start coming into the finishing stages. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 14:37:37 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Slavery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robert Said: <<>>Revamping and detailing the Thy Slave System would be a boon. I would even >>suggest a similar act be performed with Alphatia. However, i would stress >>that the two empires' slave systems be done seperately so as not to come >>into competition or be compared with each other. << I think I can see why you'd want to do it that way. That way you could insist that the life of slaves in THYATIS "sux", while white-washing the status and number of slaves in Alphatia.>> actually slavery in general sux....at least for the slaves. however it is a setting aspect seen both in alphatia and thyatis. i don't dwell on it. any desire to see the slave trades detailed would be for the information and to plug the holes that raised my initial observations that started this thread (where did they come from?). the reason for seperating them would be to keep them seperate. afterall, alphatian and thyatis are two different empires composed of two different peoples. anyway, i am not detailling the slave trade systems so why the hostilities and why the assumptions? <> and where did i say that alpher slaves had it easy? i never did. i just wanted to get some input on how the two empires got their slaves. as for the love of the homeland that the thys have, what about the vast numbers of thyatian peoples living throughout Brun. IIRC most left thyatis because life was so bad there. then there is the cited condition of the thy slums. i can probably get those quotes if you want. it'll take a few days though. i am kind of busy with real life stuff and all. it happens. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 15:26:23 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Slavery In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wow, this slave issue has gone on for a long time now. Too much to follow on everyone else's quotes, so I am just going to put my 2 cents worth. I suggested revamping the rules on slavery to give it more flavor. This would allow for characters to begin their adventuring life as a slave that would have to win their freedom or buy their freedom. In Thyatis a slave has rights, and can buy their freedom; although there are many unscrupulous ways to prevent this. In Alphatia, there is no freedom, unless you escape; or possibly prove you have some magic potential. Slavery sux no matter where you go. I posted slave population percentages for race, these were based on Thyatis expanding across the Known World. I related Thyatis to the RW Rome, in where they occupied other countries and enslaved the populations that did not agree to be incorporated into the empire. This is where the reference was made to Ochalea and Nuari slaves. I proposed this to give a flavor of RW populations in ex-slave countries (like Haiti, Cuba, et.) My main objections to the slaving system was its lack of detail, since I tend to prefer lots of detail to flavor my game with. Its one of those things I learned from college, why, what, who, where, and how. By bringing this question to the list, I have garnered many answers to these questions. Including extra tidbits on how the immortals view slavery. Now we need to build on all this information and actually put it together for others to comment, use, or debate. I especially am interested in the slavers, as several players in my pbem game want to deal in buying and selling slaves. If I incorporate slaves as one of my buy/sell items, it will be directly proportional to the market value table I built for every other commodity. The prices of slaves would then fluctuate anywhere from 30%-400% of the base prices in the DotE. Of course the type and knowledge of a slave would fluctuate the price more drastically based on an agricultural use or city use in certain areas. (just more work for my detail) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 16:20:57 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Slavery In-Reply-To: <002f01c11de4$8363f680$b1c21542@host> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit More of my 2 cents... Slavery was a backdrop to Thyatian and Alphatian flavor for the RW nations they emulate. The DotE does state for DM's not to glamorize this aspect of life. Mainly for RW politically correct gaming. So I have always ignored this aspect, but for such a dynamic aspect of the very backbone of Thyatian and Alphatian mechanics, it cannot be ignored that slaves do all the dirty work in these nations. Even in Thyatis, were slaves have rights, it is stated that they are mistreated, underfed, and worked to death. It even goes as far to state if a player wants to start out as a slave, they will be robbed of their earnings by the owner or another slave. It is a hard nasty life, and should always be portrayed that way. There is no nice way to conduct slavery; and even though it is not condemned as an evil act, it is. Only the way a society perceives things makes it 'not bad'. But both empires are wearing rose colored glasses. Stefan in Karameikos outlawed slavery, but Traladarans were free pickings for slavers for so long, the Thyatian immigrants have a hard time viewing Traladarans anything but their equal. Just because there are laws that make it legal, does not make it right. <> My only hope is to introduce a flavor of a different sub-culture within these empires that was based on slavery in RW evolution. Of course there are many other forms of slavery, like serfdom, barefoot and pregnant scenarios, prison work, indentured services, et. And most of these were considered legal and then immoral at one point in time or other. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 16:41:59 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Christopher Cherrington Subject: Re: Zzonga In-Reply-To: <124.2bf59ae.289edfb1@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Another one that has gone on and on.... In DotE, zzonga lost its extremely addictive habit, but also introduced the powerful effects of its narcissism out of an adventure in another world to real life within the Mystaran landscape. Quite possibly, the zzonga bush of Mystara lost its addictive potency after growing in Mystara's climate. I originally have used zzonga addiction to quell the 1000+ 36th level mages in the Alphatian council (IMC). Not all or every mage is under its influence, and many mages are out saving the universe in other planes or researching artifacts or making new spells and don't want to be disturbed. It was a good excuse or rumor for why Alphatia just doesn't get off its but and reduce Thyatis to a pile of rubble. (Book One, page 4 of DotE, Thyatis was conquered in one year; because Alphatia poured a little magic on their conquering ways). Although many attempts of brute force have always gone in Thyatis' favor, when ever the council agrees on something, it happens. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 17:05:45 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: 3e site for Mystara On Sun, 5 Aug 2001 20:16:45 +0200, =?iso-8859-1?q?Havard=20Faanes?= wrote: >--- M Novy wrote: > >> Here are the 3e Stats for Terari based on the KOA >> boxed set and the PWA >> 3...... > >Your website looks promising, and I'm looking forward >to seeing the rest of the Karameikan NPCs converted to >3E. >The Terari conversion looks good, although I think it >would have looked pretty different if you had based it >on the OD&D writeup rather than the 2nd Ed one. In >OD&D Terari is IRC a 36th level wizard and by AC1010 >he should be Mystaras most powerful mage. I think it >would be a good idea to employ the extra rules for >extra powerful characters for this one. > I agree, and I ran into a similar problem IMC because K:KoA lists Terari as 'only' level 20. Though I use 2e rules, I also use player option rules, the High-Level Campaigns book of which allows characters to go as high as 30, which is the maximum IMC. Rather than change Terari's stats in 2e, I've decided to keep him level 20. Why? Well, Terari is secretly Tylion IV, and I don't think the sly old fox wants people to discover this, so I could well imagine that, as Terari, he pretends to be "only" level 20 ! In 3e he could pull off just the same deception and masquerade as a mere level 20 mage when he is really level 35 or 36! Well, that's what I think he should really be, at least. - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 17:26:07 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: Invasion of the Cliched (was Re: The Dragon of Dymrak) On Sun, 5 Aug 2001 16:41:21 +0000, Robert Grabowski wrote: >>Though the Alphatians may have been "invaders" originally, they are >>scarcely invaders after 2000 years! And I don't see them as >>invaders, more as settlers myself. They came to one of the areas > with >>less population than most, but granted, they did enslave >>those people that did live there. > >I wonder if you look on the Thyatian invasion of the Hinterlands the same >way. After all, it's one of the areas with less population than most, and >the Hinterlanders aren't even being enslaved. > >Seems sort of odd to say that the people who lived in what became Alphatia >had no rights the Alphatians needed to respect because there were fewer of >them, but then for people to get all offended about Thyatis. > You may claim I said that, but you would be putting words into my mouth, since that is not what I said. >And as for whether they're still "invaders" or not, well I imagine the >people who inhabited Norwold before the Alphatians decided to try and >conquer it (their latest attempt, I mean, the one that started around the >same time as the Thyatians invaded the Hinterlands) might think of them as >still being invaders. > They probably do, yes. Then again I suppose many say the same about the Heldannic Knights or Thyatis. Thyatis may not have succeeded, but as you put it yourself - it's not for a lack of trying. I'm not claiming the Alphatians are benevolent heroes. They're not. I'm just saying they are no more expansionist than other empires of Mystara and they have long since stopped being alien invaders. >Oh, this also reminds me: people keep talking about how Thyatis is an >expansionist power (it is, ok) but Alphatia isn't. But Alphatia has expanded >over more territory, in size, between AC 985 and AC 1000 than the entire >Thyatian Empire! This isn't exactly "not expansionistic"! > No, but how much territory has Alphatia claimed over the last, say, hundred years? Most of that would be the Norwold area which, I assume, would have gone either to Alphatia or Thyatis anyway... (If one power didn't grab it, they other would have...) >That's probably one of the sources of their slaves, too, and that would >explain why there are few Norwold "barbarians" left by AC 1000 - they were >killed, enslaved, or scattered. > Yes, I'd agree with that. >>The Alphatians are not invaders - if they had been, Mystara would >>be called New Alphatia now. > >That's not true, either. It isn't for lack of the Alphatians trying that >Mystara isn't "New Alphatia", it's because people who live in the areas they >invade fight back - not just the Thyatians, but the "barbarians" in Norwold >destroyed the Alphatian's first attempts at invading their area, too. > There certainly were expansionist tendencies, but they've slowed over the years. Try reading WOTI and note how Eriadna has to fight opposition to the war even when Alphatia is winning the war and so gaining new lands. Certainly suggests to me that the aristocrats didn't care about those new lands, most likely because they didn't want to live in them anyway... Even before that, it certainly seems like there is little interest in the lands outside the Alphatian continent. They care so little about Nowold they are content to let Ericall be king there even though he isn't a wizard. If you go by the MAs you'll note that Nayce didn't even bother to send forces to stop the Jennite rebellion last year (though using that as an example is a bit of a foul I'll admit, since I was the one who wrote those events!). - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 22:12:10 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Zzonga MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Alex Benson" > > All in all, I think that the thread went fairly well up until now; none of > the usual sniping was seen. Dave, David, Dan what do you guys think? Geoff, > what about you? The real question is will it continue to be civil? I am not sure whether I am the "Dave" or "David" you referenced, but my attitude towards the two empires has always been "a plague on both your houses!" Basically, I tend to support whichever one seems to be getting the worst of things -- which I guess would make me mildly pro-Thyatis until Thyatis gets its act together and either NACE or the Hollow World Alphatian Empire faces some real threat. Better yet -- is there any chance of a new Mystaran superpower emerging somewhere besides the two empires? After all, Thyatis has had to deal with some major challenges in the past decade, and Alphatia has been irrevocably changed by the events of WotI, leaving a major power vacuum in the Alphatian Sea region even with the establishment of NACE. At the very least, Hule and the "Middle Kingdom" of Skothar (aka "MChina") should be in a position to advance themselves at the expense of these two empires in decline. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 20:47:09 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: larry lamb Subject: Re: Invasion of the Cliched (was Re: The Dragon of Dymrak) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If i rember corectly the PwA say that Mystara was named New Alphatia for some time. --- The Stalker wrote: > On Sat, 4 Aug 2001 10:01:30 EDT, Shawn J. > wrote: > > (snip) > >> > > Hey now ;^), what's wrong with an > alien/extra-dimensional invasion? > > Nothing as such, but I thought it was a little > strange in the Penhaligon > trilogy, but read on, and what a mess that turned > into! And then I started > on the Dragonlord trilogy, and of course, by the > second book, yes you > guessed it, another goddam alien invasion!!!! :( > > > It > >can work, one just has to know how to do it right > and with all the > >appropriate bells and whistles! > > For a threatening invasion, it didn't manage to > become convincing, so you > just didn't care enough... And every single member > of Thelvyn's initial > party is from some royal or imperial family across > the Known World or > they're secretly some draconic creature, for crying > out loud!!! :( > > > After all, would anyone want to see staid, > >old "Lord of the Rings" when it premieres (the > movies) if certain aspects > of > >fantasy had been done totally to death? Nah, we'd > still /love/ the > >cliches---it's just when they are treated in > /cheesy/ ways that makes them > so > >hard to swallow. > > There is a difference though, because LOTR was the > original (unless you > count Beowulf and the norse mythology that inspired > Tolkien), and nothing > can take away from that! > > It's just that to me, you simply don't need dragons > from other worlds to > stage a great war or some such. Mystara usually > makes enough trouble of its > own. > > > And I just _know_ the Stalker can't be against > the mixing > >of a few sci-fi concepts with fantasy > > But I am! I like both fantasy and sci-fi, but I hate > when they are mixed - > I hate it when I see space shuttles and land > speeders in fantasy (like in > the computer game Ultima I)! > > > because you love Alphatians---didn't > >someone tell me they are /aliens/ who /invaded/ > Mystara?! 8^> > > Though the Alphatians may have been "invaders" > originally, they are > scarcely invaders after 2000 years! And I don't see > them as invaders, more > as settlers myself. They came to one of the areas > with less population than > most, but granted, they did enslave those people > that did live there. > > The Alphatians are not invaders - if they had been, > Mystara would be called > New Alphatia now! ;) > > > - The Stalker > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ===== The "Fighting Bunnys" main site: http://www.angelfire.com/on2/myrobotechgames/index.html To group site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RobotechGame __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 04:48:42 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Robert Grabowski Subject: Re: Zzonga Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >well...this is the kind of stuff I was hoping to avoid. In my responses and >comments, I feel that I have kept them in the center. Heck, I even offered >references to my stances and observations.... Not really, not ones that accurately support your stances. In fact, you directly contradict the references you claim support your stances, more often. > >All in all, I think that the thread went fairly well up until now; none of >the usual sniping was seen. Dave, David, Dan what do you guys think? Geoff, >what about you? The real question is will it continue to be civil? > It may have been civil because of your brow-beating and bullying statements to the effect that you "see no point in these discussions", but then proceed to give your own view at length, as if you're saying to those who have different preferences that you see no point in them having their say, and things won't continue to be civil if you get contradicted by people who favor Thyatis instead of Alphatia. Just another observation that if you really meant that conversations like this are, I forget exactly how you put it, but something about a pointless waste of time, then you wouldn't engage in them - you'd focus on those other projects of yours you mentioned in your mail. What you seem to want instead is to intimidate those who have other preferences or see how badly you're representing things into being quiet about it, under threat of making the conversation unpleasant if they don't. That's not fair. It's a bullying tactic. >>Slaves cost the same in both Thyatis and Alphatia.>> >yes....at least according to the price lists in DotE. However, >I never have put alot of faith in that chart as it dictates > identical >prices for specific items for two very large empires. > So you change things in a way that favors your own preferences. Fine, for your campaign. But you presented things as if your preferences were what the materiel outlined ("slaves cheap in Thyatis", but not Alphatia), when that isn't the case. This is the kind of irritating distortion that you seem inclined to, as if you're trying to delude people who don't have all the materiels. I mean, what you do for your campaign, cool, but saying (in so many words, implying I mean) DotE has things like that isn't fair. I mean, I'm not the "canon police" or nothing, but a misportrayal within the context of "lets not get into a discussion of the empires, that's pointless, let me have my say and anyone who disagrees be quiet or things won't be civil anymore" atmosphere is really annoying. I guess that's why I felt the need to speak up about it. I'm sorry if it ofends you to point these things out, but it's the sense I'm getting from what I read of your posts. None of the other participants have been like that. I dont' see why you have to. Perhaps you could improve the tone of your posts. >I don't recall seeing any real slave numbers for Alphatia. >IIRC there is mention of the 300 slave workforce in Bluenose >that cleans the beaches every night. > It doesn't say "300 slave workforce", see that's the kind of distortion I'm talking about. It actually says "hordes" of slaves, which means lots and lots, not the few you're trying to make it seem like. >There may be something in the PWAs. I hate to ask, since I did not >give any precise quotes or page references in the above, but do >you have the reference that states the Alpher slave >proportions/numbers/etc? > They give 20% spellcasters. You yourself have explained how unlikely it is that folks would accumulate 100 gp, so it's even more unlikely that many people would become Gentry or even Freemen in Alphatia, owning anything to raise their status. It's pretty clear from the context of everything that Alphatia relies on a lot of cheap slave labor, too (cheap labor in agriculture, slaves and servants, being what it says their economy is based on), Jennites are far from the only slaves in Alphatia, Alphatia seems to have lots of slaves on the mainland, too, and from the context of things it seems to be at least, if not more than, 30% - things are described, in DotE, especially the DM Sourcebook but also the Alphatian Guide as being quite opressive for mundaines. >i just wanted to get some input on how the two empires got >their slaves. > If you wanted it for both Empires and think it sux for both, then how come you keep emphasising how bad it is in Thyatis, rather than how bad it is for both? >That's a matter of opinion since there is no canon reference to > Alpher >slave numbers or a heavy dependance upon them. Reference > please....I am >naturally curious. > I just mentioned two, I can get more if you want, but I suppose I should say that for someone who is presenting himself as very familiar with Alphatia and Thyatis as they appear in DotE, you're remarkably unfamiliar with what is in DotE with regards to Alphatia. Especially since the statement that there's "no canon reference" to a "heavy dependence upon" slaves for Alphatia, but I found two really quickly, the ones I just mentioned. A more complete search will surely find more, but I'd think you really are aware of them but just prefer to ignore or dismiss them for whatever reason. I mean, because you've said how familiar you are with DotE and the like, and these comments about how slave-based Alphatia is are rife throughout - other posters (George for one) have pointed it out, too. >IIRC most left thyatis because life was so bad there. > That doesn't seem true for the most part. Dispite non-canon stuff like James Michler's things that have been refered to, life in Thyatis is presented as not so bad for most people, compared to Alphatia where it's presented as the opposite (some people have freedom, the rest don't. Which is the opposite from most of Mystara, really, to be fair most people in most places in Mystara have more freedom than most Alphatians do). >Come to think of it, I don't even really care. > If you don't care, then why do you bother posting? I mean, if it isn't worth your effort, like you say. But again, I donno - this just seems like a tool to try and bully people into not contradicting your statements. It seems like you just say these kinds of things things to get people to back down so you can make your claims without anyone raising a contrary view. Not a very nice discussion tactic, more like bullying than discussion. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 05:09:22 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Robert Grabowski Subject: Re: Invasion of the Cliched (was Re: The Dragon of Dymrak) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >You may claim I said that, but you would be putting words into my >mouth,since that is not what I said. > Ok, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth. I'm sorry if I did. >I'm just saying they are no >more expansionist than other empires of Mystara and they have long since >stopped being alien invaders. > Ok, we'll that's fair; they're no more (but no less) expansionist than other Empires of Mystara. But they seem to still think of themselves as different from other Mystarans, so they're still "aliens" in that way, and sometimes people talk about how "alien" their culture is, so they're still aliens. And still invaders, they keep invading places, so that makes them alien + invaders, alien invaders. :) > >No, but how much territory has Alphatia claimed over the last, say, hundred >years? Most of that would be the Norwold area which, I assume, would have >gone either to Alphatia or Thyatis anyway... (If one power didn't grab it, >they other would have...) > Plus the Neatharum, which is as large as most Mystaran Known World countries! And I remember from the stuff that when they found the Hollow World, they claimed all of it, and decided to try and conquer all of it! The Neatharum was just the start of their invasion of the Hollow World. So they're still "invaders". > >There certainly were expansionist tendencies, but they've slowed over the >years. Try reading WOTI and note how Eriadna has to fight opposition to the >war even when Alphatia is winning the war and so gaining new lands. >Certainly suggests to me that the aristocrats didn't care about those new >lands, most likely because they didn't want to live in them anyway... > Maybie. But WOTI also says how enthusiastic other (it seems like most are) Alphatians are for the war, more enthusiastic for this war than in other ones, which is I guess one of the reasons used to explain how well they do. If they hadn't sunk and had beat Glantri and went through Darokin and the Shires like WotI says, do you think they would have left these places? I mean, they might not have gone to live in them, but most Alphatians didn't go live in Esterhold but it didn't mean that the Jennites were let alone. People could say the same of Thyatis that their expansionist stuff slowed, except for the Hinterlands the places that are part of Thyatis were all part of the Thyatian Empire at its begining. Hinterlands is much smaller than Norwold in size. The Emperor sent colonists to the Savage Baronies in AC 900 but didn't try to keep that part of Thyatis, and Thincol gave away the Traldaran lands. Since the Thyatian Revolt, the Alphatians added Esterhold, Norwold, and Neatharum. They seem to be trying to add more lands recently (Norwold right before AC 1000, Neatharum right after). >Even before that, it certainly seems like there is little interest in the >lands outside the Alphatian continent. They care so little about Nowold >they are content to let Ericall be king there even though he isn't a >wizard. If you go by the MAs you'll note that Nayce didn't even bother to >send forces to stop the Jennite rebellion last year (though using that as >an example is a bit of a foul I'll admit, since I was the one who wrote >those events!). > I don't know too much about the MAs. I've been meaning to read them but haven't yet. I guess I should get them. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 11:31:21 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: hador Subject: R: [MYSTARA] It's Time... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Messaggio Originale----- Da: John Calvin A: Data invio: domenica 5 agosto 2001 6.17 Oggetto: [MYSTARA] It's Time... > Check it out, and let me know what you think. > > John , You made a very useful program! I added a file with my campaign timeline and the program run correctly. Thanks a lot. Nadia ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 00:05:12 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Mike Harvey Subject: X2 -- when? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT When did X2 occur in the Mystaran timeline? Is it important? It is currently AC 967 in my campaign and I'm thinking of using it soon, especially since the party is of appropriate level and will be in Glantri soon. Gaz3 does not specify a time, but it is assumed to have occured prior to AC 1000. While you're at it, how about X4/X5? The party will be very high level by the time WOTI happens, if it even happens at all. These two modules are brilliant and I wand to use them somewhere. But to make this work the Master would have to start his campaign about 40 years before WOTI. Thoughts? Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Harvey gm@dsl-only.net (formerly bing@iccom.com) http://members.dsl-only.net/~bing/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 06:18:54 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Mystara Beyond Wrath MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable David Said: From: "Alex Benson" > > All in all, I think that the thread went fairly well up until now; none of > the usual sniping was seen. Dave, David, Dan what do you guys think? Geoff, > what about you? The real question is will it continue to be civil? I am not sure whether I am the "Dave" or "David" you referenced, but my attitude towards the two empires has always been "a plague on both your houses!"=A0 Basically, I tend to support whichever one seems to be getting the worst of things -- which I guess would make me mildly pro-Thyatis until Thyatis gets its act together and either NACE or the Hollow World Alphatian Empire faces some real threat.>> i agree. neither empire is a poster child for good wholesome living and the=20 stereotype for the perfect society. i don't think that either should be.=20 perfect societies are not the best settings for adventure. instead take the=20 quirks and deficiencies of cultures and use them to promote the adventures.=20 <> i can agree with this as well. before Wrath, Alphatia and Thyatis were the=20 superpowers of Mystara. Wrath changed that as both empires were altered=20 either through devastating defeat or by having the core landmass transplante= d=20 to HW. neither nace nor thyatis can reasonably step back into their previous= =20 roles.=20 karameikos was sort of implied to assume that role. IMO both karameikos and=20 glantri were pegged to renew the cold war mentality of pre Wrath=20 Mystara....though not on the previous scale. so karameikos goes from minor=20 player to major power almost overnight. too quick and too convenient IMO. There's alot of smaller domains on Brun that could make a push to fill the=20 vaccum that Wrath left. as they are, such empire building would be difficult= =20 if not impossible. such moves would be heavily dependant upon the use of=20 diplomacy and making allegiances. just imagine if Ethengar and Rockhome=20 combined officially to war against Glantri? the best cavalry combined with=20 some of the toughest infantry (better saves too). Skothar and Davania also offer ample untouched room for mighty empires to=20 exist. of course the existance of these empires should not be seen as them=20 preparing to march upon the various peoples of Mystara. RW history shows tha= t=20 imperial expansions have their limits. many RW empires ultimately failed=20 because their expansions overextended their resources. there is also the=20 motivation to expand; what they gain versus what their expend in getting it. there's potential and it can be on multiple fronts. i really don't see any=20 world conquerers out there. instead, domains may rise to develop regional=20 influence over its neighbors. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 06:19:01 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Zzonga and The Eternal Debates MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Call it deja vue or coincidence, but there is an uncanny similarity in this discussion. I am not going to argue this line much because I don't care and I know thta it is not going to resolve anything, it never has before. However, it does bring up some questions that I think that I should answer for common courtesy. Albeit I will be brief for time reasons. I don't know how long you have been on the MML. People come and go, change email addresses, and so on. However these Alph vs. Thy debates are always coming up to be debated. The matters are cited, responded to, and readdressed. Often the original subject becomes lost as the discussions spin off into other aspects of the Alph/Thy matchups. This thread is becoming alot like that, though bias and perspectives are being questioned instead of the Mystaran subject matters. In the end, nothing is resolved. For every cited quote ther eis a counterquote. The Mystaran sources on Thy and Alph are vague and contradict themselves at times. In the end, it really becomes a matter of IMC vs. IYC and you cannot debate opions. So, why debate a subject that has no resolution? The only real good outcome is that the discussions spinoff into campaign development ideas. It took me a good while to realize this and now I don't worry about it. Am I a bully? Personally I would say no. To be a bully, one has to have reasons to force their stance across. I have no motivation nor do I benefit from getting any point across. Once again, I digress to the opinions of the other responders. If I am seen as a bully there is nothing I can do about it. I find it humorous to a degree. Here I am, sitting back in the shadows manipulating and bullying the MML collective into following my edicts. I am the ultimate puppet master piloting the coarse of a defunct RPG campaign world to do my bidding. [insert evil lich laugh] Probably what comes across as being bullying is my matter of fact way of putting things....mixing in tid bits of dry humor. I don't waste time with going to great extents. My free-time is much more limited than it has ever been. I don't have the time to go to great lengths in my posts. Likewise I don't have time to debate an arguments. If the debate is going no where, I cut it off to save time.... "agree to disagree". Over the last six or seven months, I have been in and out of lurker mode. My participation here has been limited. I have kept up on the postings, checking them every few days or so. I have noticed that some of Robert's own comments denote an open bias as well. But hey, too each their own. I have been using some covert methods in the MML, always have. Those covert posts are to test the waters for other projects. I use to do this alot when I was with the Almanac as it gets some active feedback while not directly divulging spoiler information. For example, the slave thread was influenced by me wanting some input for a slave class in one of my Davania cultures. Another example is with the zzonga. I wanted some input on what long lived magic using beings do during their daily lives. Yet another, more ancient example was the whole Tech vs. Magic thread which was staged to get some input for Divergans, their abandoned Blackmoor Bunker, and the Peghart Gnomes. I don't think that I ever tried to glamorize Alpher slaves, nor did I paint either as being better or worse. They are two different societies and should be looked at seperately to avoid direct or indirect comparisons (tit for tat). If the focus was placed on the Thy slave trade it was because the discussion had focused upon it. Afterall, the original question was where did the slaves come from. Alphatian slaves are more easily explained since freedom is a slim option. Therefore discussion focused upon the Thyatian slaves and how the slave pool is maintained in spite of the Slave Laws and citizenship for assimilated peoples. I have been a MML list member since it was on the old io.com site. Before that, I was active on the old TSR On AOL boards. Through the years the Alph/Thy debates have raged, subsided, and resurfaced countless times. Neither side is right or wrong, due to the inconsistent canon materials. It just gets really old and I don't want to become involved with it anymore. There have been multiple opportunities for me to support the Alpher cause over the last few months. However, I did not get involved. There's nothing to prove, nothing is settled, and in the end only flames erupt. In hindsight, I should have found another thread to use to get the feedback. Anyway...take it for what you will. I have already spent more time on this than I intended. If worse comes to worse I'll just change over to another email address and see if the stigma follows me LOL. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 12:20:23 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "Giulio N. Caroletti" Subject: Re: X2 -- when? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > While you're at it, how about X4/X5? The party will be very high > level by the time WOTI happens, if it even happens at all. These two > modules are brilliant and I wand to use them somewhere. But to make > this work the Master would have to start his campaign about 40 years > before WOTI. So go with that, is it a problem? You could simply change the situation this way: Darokin is not involved at all, all the references in X4 to "Republic" are transferred to Sind. If the PCs manage to spoil the Master's plans, they will delay Sind's conquest (that will take place at the end of the 10th century, like Canon suggests, if I recall correctly), otherwise the Master will take Sind 30 years before. Then there will be another campaign directed against Darokin as per WotI timeline. Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 14:44:59 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "Giulio N. Caroletti" Subject: Re: Domains of Ostland - Sognesholm (long) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jacob Skytte wrote: > Working quickly now. Here's another domain in the series. AC1000, OD&D, Personality Trait rules from GAZ7, 'nuff said. > > Jacob Skytte > scythe@wanadoo.dk > > --- > ROLLO THE CRUEL Well...I don't know why, but this character makes me think of the evil jarl in "Erik the Viking", the film...was it John Cleese that starred that role? Well, just rambling, anyway... Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 06:48:54 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: III Subject: Re: small Blackmoor tidbit has surfaced in Living Greyhawk Journal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Details... Must have details now... Andy Morrow >--- Andrew Theisen wrote:=20 >> Blackmoor gets a (IMO) fairly extensive writeup in=20 >> the Living Greyhawk=20 >> Gazetteer that came out earlier this year. AFAIK, a=20 >> lot of the information=20 >> is new (and not just verbatim from earlier Greyhawk=20 >> products.)=20 >Is this a product available to everyone (Not just RPGA=20 >Members)? Would you recomment buying it just for the=20 >information on Blackmoor in there?=20 >H=E5vard=20 _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 07:46:28 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: John Calvin Subject: Re: It's Time... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> > Check it out, and let me know what you think. > > John First impression impressed (uhm, seems a good title for a song, doesn't it?). Well, I'll try to toy with it a little more before further commenting. << Why thank you my good Captain. This is high praise indeed! Unfortunately I notice that the download page has had 28 hits in the last 2 days and you are the only one to so much as comment. I hope I get some more feedback shortly. :( The next version will be coming out soon. Here is what you can look forward to: 1) Now events that occur in the same year will all be grouped under the same date heading. No more multiple BC 3000 entries for example. This makes the output look much nicer! 2) Icons next to the source and event entries will tell you at a glance if the work is canon/fanbased and what setting it is from (for those of you who like to mix timelines from other settings - Ravenloft, Spelljammer, Greyhawk, etc - into your Mystara campaigns). 3) You will be able to save your timeline output directly to a dynamically generated html page. 4) and of course, there will be a few more timelines as well. Tell me what else you'd like to see. For some odd reason I'm just having so much fun writing this code right now. Better get your suggestions in while I'm still on a roll. ;) John ===== Rule #53. If the beautiful princess that I capture says "I'll never marry you! Never, do you hear me, NEVER!!!", I will say "Oh well" and kill her. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:30:57 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Mike Harvey Subject: Stephen d'Ambreville MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Is Stephen the same person as Etienne? Stephen is mentioned in X2 and Etienne is not, and Stephen is not mentioned in Gaz3 (that I can find). Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Harvey gm@dsl-only.net (formerly bing@iccom.com) http://members.dsl-only.net/~bing/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 17:38:43 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: It's Time... John Calvin wrote: > Unfortunately I notice that the download page has had 28 hits in the last 2 > days and you are the only one to so much as comment. I hope I get some more > feedback shortly. :( I tried accessing it the other day, but got a time out. Today I managed to grab it, though I've yet to try it out (I needed the Java Runtime Environment as well, and it's taking a while to download). But if you still need people to type timelines from canon sources, I'd be willing to chip in with some work there. Let me know. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 09:19:26 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: John Calvin Subject: Re: R: [MYSTARA] It's Time... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> > Check it out, and let me know what you think. > > John , You made a very useful program! I added a file with my campaign timeline and the program run correctly. Thanks a lot. Nadia << Wohoo! That's what I like to hear! By the way, I've just converted 2 web-based fan timelines to run with the program. It took me less than 30 minutes. Sharon Dornhoff's Hollow Moon timeline (all 5 parts), and Geoff Gander's Carnifex Y'hog timeline. They'll both ship with the next release (coming soon!) John ===== Rule #53. If the beautiful princess that I capture says "I'll never marry you! Never, do you hear me, NEVER!!!", I will say "Oh well" and kill her. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:26:39 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: R: [MYSTARA] It's Time... In-Reply-To: <20010806161926.44842.qmail@web14201.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, John Calvin wrote: > By the way, I've just converted 2 web-based fan timelines to run with the > program. It took me less than 30 minutes. Sharon Dornhoff's Hollow Moon > timeline (all 5 parts), and Geoff Gander's Carnifex Y'hog timeline. They'll > both ship with the next release (coming soon!) Ooo Ooo! Can you add my Southern Vulcanian Timeline too? *beg* *plead* Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:29:49 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Ray Brooks Subject: Re: Stephen d'Ambreville In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Stephen Amber" is the anglocized version of "Etienne D'Ambreville" used in the module. They are indeed one in the same person. Hope this helps. Ray > Is Stephen the same person as Etienne? Stephen is mentioned in X2 and > Etienne is not, and Stephen is not mentioned in Gaz3 (that I can > find). > Mike ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:07:48 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dave Keyser Organization: Palmchip Subject: Re: small Blackmoor tidbit has surfaced in LivingGreyhawk Journal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Havard Faanes wrote: > Is this a product available to everyone (Not just RPGA > Members)? Would you recomment buying it just for the > information on Blackmoor in there? > > H�vard > > _______________________ Yes, it is available to everyone, it still should be on store shelves. I can't answer the second question yet. Dave ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:20:01 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Mike Harvey Subject: Re: It's Time... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> Check it out, and let me know what you think. I like it so far. This will make it VERY easy to manage this stuff. >2) Icons next to the source and event entries will tell you at a >glance if the work is canon/fanbased and what setting it is from Great idea. I would like to also see a "campaign" category, so a DM can add his own campaign-specific events and have them marked with an icon. >3) You will be able to save your timeline output directly to a >dynamically generated html page. Also a great idea >Tell me what else you'd like to see. For some odd reason I'm >just having so much fun writing this code right now. Better >get your suggestions in while I'm still on a roll. ;) Okay, you asked for it. In no particular order: - Date-threads which associate a given event with one or more topics, without having to duplicate it's entry. This would probably require the addition of some sort of "thread tag" system. Also, the ability to navigate along a thread, jumping forward or back. Also, there should be "links" that jump instantly to a related event elsewhere. (I realize that you can currently group things on a file-by-file basis, but it would be nice to include multiple threads within a file, especially for very short threads of 2-4 events. It would also be nice to spread threads over multiple files.) Examples of how threading could be used: +++ all events in Duke Stefan's Life +++ all events related to the Thyatian-Alphatian conflict +++ all events involving humanoid migrations +++ all events involving Immortals +++ all events that are part of WOTI or "world in flames" I think thread tags should be user-defined, though a set of 'mystaran standard' tags might be used to prevent fragmenting the timeline unnecessarily. If combined with the interactive timeline editor idea, the editor could pop up a list of existing tags and - "Circa" dates. Another useful thing would be "floating" events that occur before or after another specific event, but not otherwise fixed in time. This could be any time before, exactly X days before, at least X years before, or no more than X years beforem, etc. The advantage here is that you could "prototype" new event sequences quickly and easily by simply specifying overall sequence and where you want it in relation to other existing events; the computer would then show you how it fits into the actual timeline. If an entire sub-timeline is relative to a single key event, you could just adjust the date of that one key event and "test fit" the proposed timeline in different places. This would preserve the temporal distance and cause-effect relationships, but you could move the whole thing around only changeing one parameter instead of editing all events individually (and making mistakes). - How about the ability to specify actual "cause/effect" relationships? It would be nifty to click on an event and see a list of causes and consequences, and be able to *jump* to them. - Integrated editor to interactively add/delete/adjust dates and descriptions - "See Also" links. This is not a thread, just a link between two related events. For example, if an event was caused or influenced by something else in the remote past, you might throw in a "see also" link. - Ability to "transpose" dates into a different reckoning (for instance, use alphatian year instead of AC, or whatever). Alternate dates could be represented simply as an offset from the current reckoning. - Optional month/day for events, to allow fine detailing of events within a year. This would make it much easier to do things like the WOTI timeline. - Search for date (or range of dates) - Search for text - Open a new view window. This would be handy for comparing different sections of timelines, and also for displaying ranges or search results. Also, a custom view could be exported to HTML. - Annotations, so you can attach additional text to an event without it showing up in the time browser Mike ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:24:16 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Mike Harvey Subject: Hollow World Gazetteers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Are the hollow world supplements (HWR series, HWQ series, etc) worthwhile picking up? I'm not sure I plan to run anything in the Hollow World, but I always have my eye out for high quality source material. Do these expand much on surface-world history and culture? Also I'm thinking that the Milenian stuff might be very useful for a Davania campaign...? Thanks, Mike ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:48:12 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Mike Harvey Subject: Re: Theory about 3E dragons on Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Sorry, I don't buy it. Mystaran dragons are listed in terms of size... the largest of which is Huge. I always say huge dragons as exactly that: really really big. A Huge Mystaran dragon has a crush attack of 20x20 ft, which means it must have a body about 20 ft wide. Checking the size chart for 3e, this corresponds to a Gargantuan dragon. A merely Huge 3e dragon could manage and 20x20 attack if he lays down and rolls on the ground like a dog... frankly I don't see dragons behaving that way. In 3e, the largest gargantuan gold dragon is Ancient; the largest gargantuan white dragon is a Great Wyrm. Looks to me like a pretty close match at the top end. It also is a good match if you compare breath and melee attacks (in the context of their respective game systems, or course). The only real difference is talking and casting spells. It seems to me that this is easily explained by saying that some dragons only speak draconic, and the more chaotic types often disdain to speak to adventurers even if they can speak a human language. Their attitude may be more barbaric and arrogant also, preferring the satisfaction of ripping puny mortals apart with their claws rather than using magic. Or maybe there are "lesser" Mystaran dragons that really _don't_ speak or use magic. The 3e dragons can be seen as a magic-using subset of the broader range of dragon categories in the RC. Overall I don't see a serious problem. Dragons are tougher, so are characters, so are orcs. It all balances out. If you want the greater RC dragons, just use the MM; for the barbaric RC dragons, take away speech and spellcasting and cut the CR a bit. Mike ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 14:08:01 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Auld Skald Subject: Re: Hollow World Gazetteers In-Reply-To: <63342001816182416250@dsl-only.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I thought The Nithian Empire supplement was disappointing. I was hoping for more depth in the history, and the special sites are more-or-less left to the DM to flesh out. It introduced the idea of pyramid power points-based spell- casting for everyone (using "pyramid power" devices), and expanded on special abilities of the clerics of Nithian Immortals. The Milenian Empire Gaz /is/ better. It's more on par with the other Gazateers, like the Northern Reaches, for example. It introduces new orders, new spells, more background history, etc. HTH ... Auld Skald Quoting Mike Harvey : > Are the hollow world supplements (HWR series, HWQ series, etc) > worthwhile picking up? I'm not sure I plan to run anything in the > Hollow World, but I always have my eye out for high quality source > material. Do these expand much on surface-world history and culture? > Also I'm thinking that the Milenian stuff might be very useful for a > Davania campaign...? > > Thanks, > Mike > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 14:08:01 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Dragon Slaying (was Dymark Dragon) In-Reply-To: <005601c11ca6$7bce96d0$e0511f42@D56DN901> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > A single huge red should be able to easily handle a > party of 5 10th level > PCs. Even a tough small red should be challenging. > A 13 HD small red could > have 104 hp, and for most PCs this would be a save > or die situation vs. it's > breath. Well the fighter has 84 hit points I think. Maybe more. And was hasted. My PC's tend to save rather then die, which sometimes is unfortunate. I just want to "believably" kill them off, or at least a couple. And they won't be going back there soon (although the dragons might be comming to them). I think they were fearing for their lives, but they're the sort of PC's that when someone goes "we gotta get out of here, fast!" say "hang on, this is a city where the streets are lined with gold, I'm sure we can all carry a few paving stones with that lining." > A thief or MU (or others even, esp. if worn > down by the dragon's > allies and defenses to its lair) might be killed > regardless of the save. I didn't get to throw anything at them. They were invisible, and flying on stuff. Can be very hard to stop if your making it up as you go along. > The breath would disrupt any spells being cast, and > if the dragon wins > initiative in the next round it could finish them > off with a 2nd breath. > What if the dragon were hasted and got double > attacks? no time for it to do that, I think it was a surprise for everyone, only the PC's came in picking a fight. > For a large or huge > dragon, who have high hit dice, to hit bonuses, up > to 6 attacks (pre-haste), > and potent melee damage, this should do a number on > the PCs. The kicks, > tail, and wings can knock PCs down, disarm them, or > stun (with a saving > throw penalty equal to the damage caused (for a huge > red, this could be save > at -14!). Well I had him knock the PC's off the carpet (had to hit them first though) and I think I got them all in my 6 attacks. But they *insisted* on saving throws to get actions next round, which I gave to them at something like -5 to -10, and I think the mage definately made this but I can't remember about the others. > Did you have the ice storms cause double damage? 90 > seems high (for 2 10HD > storms), and a huge red saves as a F20. Red's don't get saves vs. cold, or at least thats the rule we play cause it seems to be something remembered from all those years ago when we actually read the rules. And 21HD of spell dammage averages out at 73.5 and the dragon had 80 HP, so it's not that much. > Having the dragons use magic, like you said, is > good. They could even use > some items in their hoard (rings on claws, drink > potions, etc.). Usually, > the dragon's tactics will dictate the fight. A > first strike with breath, > like you described, should give the wyrm the upper > hand. I'm surprised that > the PCs could recover that quickly and fend off two > more! so was I :p The dragons revenge will be much worse. > If you want to > test them, play up *all* of the dragon's abilities > and attacks and don't > pull any punches. A dragon should be able to bring > them to fear. I wanted to keep the dragons alive, yes they were holding their own, but PC's who don't fear death (well not yet... but soon hopefully) are a mean opponant. Especally when you want your monsters to have some realism and so do fear death. Had the PC's stuck around they would be dead as a doornob The crux of the problem was the PC's always had an (but not "the") upper hand. dragon breath and fireball at two of them first turn. And then I have one less dragon very fast. The other one gets substantially dammaged very fast and thus his breath is inefectual (given his lower HP now) and is better off attacking. Rather then see him killed I had him escape combat for help. It was a short but viscious combat. The most satisfying moments were when: The dragon hits: PC: "what did he hit me with? (please not the bite)" DM: "the bite" PC: "aghhh" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 19:51:50 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: Slavery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Grabowski" > >>By Law Thy slaves can buy their freedom. however, that law may be a bit of > >>a"pipe dream" or based upon good intentions than actual use. << > > That's your bias showing through again. > Again, you tend to interpret things for Alphatia in the best possible light > and for Thyatis in the worst possible light. Your perogative, but it doesn't > make you the source of wisdom you present yourself as, especially since you > distort things so much. Where the heck did you come from? Man, we're all friends here. Relax. And he's right. Thyatis does have certain laws protecting slaves...but those same laws can be manipulated by those in power. Its true to the real world and its true to our fantasy world. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 17:46:05 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Mischa Gelman Subject: Re: Hollow World Gazetteers In-Reply-To: <63342001816182416250@dsl-only.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, Mike Harvey wrote: > Are the hollow world supplements (HWR series, HWQ series, etc) > worthwhile picking up? HWR3 is one of the best Mystara products out there - it fleshes out the Milenian setting wonderfully. Heck, you can probably incorporate many elements into Thyatis, as DoTE had far less detail. HWR2 sucked. Lots of typos, contradictions and useless information. The specialty classes are neat, but that's it. HWR1 is better than HWR2, but worse than many of the OW GAZs - it's about as valuable as GAZ1 or 2; handy, but nothing special. The net-HWRs are all masterful works of art that surpass anything ever accomplished by Lloyd Alexander, Susan Cooper, J.R.R. Tolkein, George R.R. Martin, Martha Wells, Tad Williams, Harry Turtledove, Charles de Lint, Holly Lisle or Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman. Err, that is, I tried to flesh out things a bit and they're free, so just grab them off Shawn's site. They're hopefully better than HWR2 at least ;) > I'm not sure I plan to run anything in the > Hollow World, but I always have my eye out for high quality source > material. Do these expand much on surface-world history and culture? HWR1 - minimal value to an OW-only setting. Some ancient Mystara history. HWR2 - less than a page of ancient OW history. No value whatsoever to an OW-only campaign. HWR3 - Some Mystaran history, but the Greco-Roman setting can easily be used in Thyatis or other OW cultures and the detail can help strengthen your campaign setting. Easily worth it. - Mischa [I]n the modern world we are primarily confronted with the extraordinary spectacle of people turning to new ideals because they have not tried the old. - G.K. Chesterton ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 17:35:16 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: James Mishler Subject: Re: Paladin Thoughts] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Old One Andrew Theisen Chanted: << Myself, I don't personally feel that paladins need be Good. Lawful, yes- for the doctrines of their beliefs require them to serve a specific set of guidelines, rules, etc. But I allow for Lawful Good and Lawful Evil paladins- champions of their respective faiths. I see the paladin's Lawfulness coming more from the particular method in which he chooses to follow/practice his faith, and less as a result of his deity's inclinations. For example, Thanatos might be chaotically inclined by his own principles, but a paladin of Thanatos would be Lawful Evil (he has a distinct set of codes and principles by which he practices his faith to Thanatos, and by which he executes Thanatos' will). Did I make myself clear? I'm not sure I did...>> Perfectly clear. Sounds good, too. IIRC, that's what they did in the K:KoA setting, right? I've always though a Paladin could be LG, LN, or LE. It's in the ordered, structured way they work that their powers manifest, at least in my own opinion. JAmes ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 17:38:50 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: James Mishler Subject: Re: Wendar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Master Cartographer Extraordinaire Thibault Sarlat Quoth: <> It also means that there should be some incredibly extensive cavern systems down there, along the lines of the Shadow elven caverns... hmmm... What might be hiding in those caves? James ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 17:42:39 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: James Mishler Subject: Re: Stephen d'Ambreville MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, Etienne is French for "Stephen"... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Harvey" To: Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 3:30 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] Stephen d'Ambreville > Is Stephen the same person as Etienne? Stephen is mentioned in X2 and > Etienne is not, and Stephen is not mentioned in Gaz3 (that I can > find). > > Mike > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Mike Harvey > gm@dsl-only.net (formerly bing@iccom.com) > http://members.dsl-only.net/~bing/ > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 16:05:50 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: Invasion of the Cliched (was Re: The Dragon of Dymrak) On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 05:09:22 +0000, Robert Grabowski wrote: >> >>You may claim I said that, but you would be putting words into my >>mouth,since that is not what I said. >> >Ok, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth. I'm sorry if I did. > Okay. And I apologize if I seemed hostile. >>I'm just saying they are no >>more expansionist than other empires of Mystara and they have long since >>stopped being alien invaders. >> >Ok, we'll that's fair; they're no more (but no less) expansionist than other >Empires of Mystara. >But they seem to still think of themselves as different from other >Mystarans, so they're still "aliens" in that way, and sometimes people talk >about how "alien" their culture is, so they're still aliens. And still >invaders, they keep invading places, so that makes them alien + invaders, >alien invaders. :) > Okay. It's just that when you use the term alien invaders, it makes me think of aliens from other worlds trying to take over the planet and settle it. Don't get me wrong - my Mystara DM also used to confront my Stalker character with this term, but my character's response was always "Well, I was born and raised on Mystara, as were my parents and their parents for generations, so why won't you consider me a native to this world?" The term would have applied 2000 years into Mystara's past, but not by AC 1000 methinks... >> >>No, but how much territory has Alphatia claimed over the last, say, hundred >>years? Most of that would be the Norwold area which, I assume, would have >>gone either to Alphatia or Thyatis anyway... (If one power didn't grab it, >>they other would have...) >> >Plus the Neatharum, which is as large as most Mystaran Known World >countries! And I remember from the stuff that when they found the Hollow >World, they claimed all of it, and decided to try and conquer all of it! The >Neatharum was just the start of their invasion of the Hollow World. >So they're still "invaders". > True, but how much of the HW has the Alphatians claimed since then? >> >>There certainly were expansionist tendencies, but they've slowed over the >>years. Try reading WOTI and note how Eriadna has to fight opposition to the >>war even when Alphatia is winning the war and so gaining new lands. >>Certainly suggests to me that the aristocrats didn't care about those new >>lands, most likely because they didn't want to live in them anyway... >> >Maybie. But WOTI also says how enthusiastic other (it seems like most are) >Alphatians are for the war, more enthusiastic for this war than in other >ones, which is I guess one of the reasons used to explain how well they do. This is correct, but also note that the call for war was due to Immortal interference from the Immortal Alphatia... Which was odd because she is usually calling for peace. Her description even says that she will not support any imperialistic and expansionist traits of the Alphatians, yet she stirred up anti-Glantrian feelings and helped the war begin because she feared, like the rest of the Ring of Fire, that Glantri's Nucleus of the Spheres could destroy all magic on Mystara, and that was more important than anything else at the time, it seems... You're correct, but there were extentuating circumstances. >If they hadn't sunk and had beat Glantri and went through Darokin and the >Shires like WotI says, do you think they would have left these places? Well, I won't insult anyone's intelligence by saying no, but there are factors that would speak to the contrary. For instance, claiming so much land would require a massive occupation force, and Eriadna was already faced with this problem when Thyatis sued for peace - you can check WOTI, book II, p.88, and find that one reason why Thyatis was "allowed" to "survive" was that holding Thyatis would require occupation forces that Eriadna simply didn't have to spare. Then again, I really doubt Darokin and the other lands would have fought to the bitter end when Alphatia claimed their lands. More likely, they would have made a treaty with Alphatia like Thyatis did. Glantri is a special case, of course, but I'm pretty certain even the Glantrian would have let the Alphatians destroy the Nucleus of the Spheres (or whatever they would have done since I doubt they could have destroyed it anyway) over being smashed by the Alphatians and added to their empire. > I >mean, they might not have gone to live in them, but most Alphatians didn't >go live in Esterhold but it didn't mean that the Jennites were let alone. No, but then things are changing there now too. >People could say the same of Thyatis that their expansionist stuff slowed, >except for the Hinterlands the places that are part of Thyatis were all part >of the Thyatian Empire at its begining. Hinterlands is much smaller than >Norwold in size. I don't agree with this. I think the Thyatians are claiming land all the time. It's what they do. It's why Thyatis is the "empire of conquerors" to me. It wouldn't be Thyatis if they didn't! After WOTI, Thyatis went straight to the Isle of Dawn to claim land rather than wait for their own economy to recover from the war. There is a reason why Bellisaria was fearful of Thyatian invasion throughout AC 1010. > The Emperor sent colonists to the Savage Baronies in AC 900 >but didn't try to keep that part of Thyatis, and Thincol gave away the >Traldaran lands. Actually, Thincol traded the Traladaran lands to Stefan (a nasty Thyatian overlord, btw, at least if you ask the Traladarans at the time) because he got a good deal by getting the Duchy of Machetos, a rich duchy at the time, in return. Stefan threw away a lot of money there, but then Stefan was looking to build a new nation from the ground - he had a long-sighted vision, so to him, he got the better deal. Thincol probably thought him a bit mad, but then if he was giving away his lands, Thincol might as well take them as anyone else... > Since the Thyatian Revolt, the Alphatians added Esterhold, >Norwold, and Neatharum. They seem to be trying to add more lands recently >(Norwold right before AC 1000, Neatharum right after). > True, but Norwold has long been a disputed area. And Neatharum was brutally enslaved, yes, but the interest here wasn't really land-grabbing, I think. To build a huge tunnel through Mystara's surface to claim some undeveloped jungle crawling with savages and monsters isn't very clever if you're after land. >>Even before that, it certainly seems like there is little interest in the >>lands outside the Alphatian continent. They care so little about Nowold >>they are content to let Ericall be king there even though he isn't a >>wizard. If you go by the MAs you'll note that Nayce didn't even bother to >>send forces to stop the Jennite rebellion last year (though using that as >>an example is a bit of a foul I'll admit, since I was the one who wrote >>those events!). >> >I don't know too much about the MAs. I've been meaning to read them but >haven't yet. I guess I should get them. > Well, since I write for them, of course I think you should ;) - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 19:52:46 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: David Knott Subject: Re: Hollow World Gazetteers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Mischa Gelman" > > HWR1 - minimal value to an OW-only setting. Some ancient Mystara > history. True for history, but the Atruaghin Tiger clan still has a culture very much like that of the Azcans. > HWR2 - less than a page of ancient OW history. No value whatsoever to an > OW-only campaign. With some adjustments, it might be used to flesh out Thothia on the Isle of Dawn. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 16:31:44 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Adventurers' Guild of Selenica MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Since I'll be playing an adventure from Dungeon no. 58 called "Challenge of Champions" with my group tomorrow, I needed a bit of detail for it so that the Adventurers' Guild doesn't drop on the head of the players without at least an explanation. Toward that end I've added a little detail to my campaign and set up an aging adventurer as a useful NPC in my campaign. This material is set for the year AC 1008 because that's where my campaign is at now. Here is what I came up with... THE STREEL HUNTERS. This was a group of adventurers active in Darokin about fifty or so years ago. People such as the fighter Sir Randolph Wystead and his later wife Marita Hallonica, a priest of Ixion, were among the members of this group. Most of the group were beknighted as Knights of the Roads in Darokin for the deeds while adventuring the land. The group was far from exclusively Darokinian, though. In fact, it would seem that only Sir Randolph and Marita of Ixion were Darokinians, while other members might have come from nations such as Traladara (now Karameikos), Ylaruam, Thyatis, the Five Shires, Rockhome, Alfheim, and perhaps even Glantri. Since the known activities of the group took place mostly in Darokin, the Darokinian members are those best known, but it is clear that other people belonged to the group as well. RANDOLPH WYSTEAD. Lord Randolph Wystead is a retired Darokinian Fighter and a former colonel in the Darokinian militia and adventurer. He used to be part of the group known as the Streel Hunters, and was declared a Knight of the Roads decades ago. He eventually retired and married his former adventuring companion Martia Hallonica, a high-priest of Ixion, and they settled near Selenica, where Marita was high-priest for years. She died of natural causes in AC 998 and Lord Wystead never having been too popular among the Hallonica family, they had turned a cold shoulder toward him. Still, Lord Wystead has gone about his business without paying attention to the Hallonicas. He is too old to adventure now, but a few years he set up the Adventurers=92= Guild in Selenica. He has a small estate with a house in the city where he had a tavern-house built to serve as headquarters for the guild, and many young adventurers have come to the support of his initiative, making the guild buzz with rumor, tall tales, new events in the world, stories of lost treasures, etc. Lord Wystead hopes The Adventurers=92 Guild will grow to cross the boundaries of nations, so he set it up in Selenica where it would be close to both Darokin, Karameikos, Ylaruam, and Thyatis. As a consequence, some has seen it as a competitor to the Darokin=92s Diplomatic Corps, but there are those who belong both the the Guild and the DDC, while real diplomats claim the two organizations have nothing in common. However, since the guild has become somewhat successful, Lord Wystead spends less time in Selenica, preferring to enjoy his remaining years in his much grander estate near the Altan Tepes mountains close to the town of Reedle. In Selenica, it is one of his hopes that he can revive the following of Ixion, the patron of his wife and the patron of the city itself, as Ixion=92= s worship has been declining in the later years. Inspired by the Ierendi Crown Tourney, in AC 1007 he came upon the idea that to further the spirit of cooperation among adventurers, who often lead solitary lives in their various groups, by setting up a competition for groups of adventurers. The first of these is to take place in the summer of AC 1008. In AC 1008, Lord Wystead was an old widower of 81 years. Even though he is retired, he remains a reserve colonel in the Army of Darokin and may be called upon as an advisor or leader. A coupe of things for those who wonder... 1. Naturally the "Challenge of Champions" is sort of the predecessor to the later World Games which Darokin will begin in AC 1012. One of the PWAs say that Corwyn Mauntea thought of the games at the height of the war, yet couldn't go through with them at the time. Well, he thought of them by taking the idea from the "Challenge of Champions" (which was in turn taken from the Ierendi Crown Tourney). This was one reason why the first World Games were set in Selenica. 2. Although Darokin City is obviously the capital of Darokin, I've put the Adventurers' Guild in Selenica partially because of the "cross-national" nature Wystead hopes the further, but also because of his association with the Hallonica family, of course. I wanted the Guild not to be too 'national', and Selenica seems to see itself as fairly independent... I'm not sure if it was the ideal choice, though, so feedback on that issue would be appreciated if anyone has something to share... - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 17:18:01 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Adventurers Guild MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Already tried to send this once, but for some reason it hasn't appeared... My apologies if it shows up twice... -- Since I'll be playing an adventure from Dungeon no. 58 called "Challenge of Champions" with my group tomorrow, I needed a bit of detail for it so that the Adventurers' Guild doesn't drop on the head of the players without at least an explanation. Toward that end I've added a little detail to my campaign and set up an aging adventurer as a useful NPC in my campaign. This material is set for the year AC 1008 because that's where my campaign is at now. Here is what I came up with... THE STREEL HUNTERS. This was a group of adventurers active in Darokin about fifty or so years ago. People such as the fighter Sir Randolph Wystead and his later wife Marita Hallonica, a priest of Ixion, were among the members of this group. Most of the group were beknighted as Knights of the Roads in Darokin for the deeds while adventuring the land. The group was far from exclusively Darokinian, though. In fact, it would seem that only Sir Randolph and Marita of Ixion were Darokinians, while other members might have come from nations such as Traladara (now Karameikos), Ylaruam, Thyatis, the Five Shires, Rockhome, Alfheim, and perhaps even Glantri. Since the known activities of the group took place mostly in Darokin, the Darokinian members are those best known, but it is clear that other people belonged to the group as well. RANDOLPH WYSTEAD. Lord Randolph Wystead is a retired Darokinian Fighter and a former colonel in the Darokinian militia and adventurer. He used to be part of the group known as the Streel Hunters, and was declared a Knight of the Roads decades ago. He eventually retired and married his former adventuring companion Martia Hallonica, a high-priest of Ixion, and they settled near Selenica, where Marita was high-priest for years. She died of natural causes in AC 998 and Lord Wystead never having been too popular among the Hallonica family, they had turned a cold shoulder toward him. Still, Lord Wystead has gone about his business without paying attention to the Hallonicas. He is too old to adventure now, but a few years he set up the Adventurers=92= Guild in Selenica. He has a small estate with a house in the city where he had a tavern-house built to serve as headquarters for the guild, and many young adventurers have come to the support of his initiative, making the guild buzz with rumor, tall tales, new events in the world, stories of lost treasures, etc. Lord Wystead hopes The Adventurers=92 Guild will grow to cross the boundaries of nations, so he set it up in Selenica where it would be close to both Darokin, Karameikos, Ylaruam, and Thyatis. As a consequence, some has seen it as a competitor to the Darokin=92s Diplomatic Corps, but there are those who belong both the the Guild and the DDC, while real diplomats claim the two organizations have nothing in common. However, since the guild has become somewhat successful, Lord Wystead spends less time in Selenica, preferring to enjoy his remaining years in his much grander estate near the Altan Tepes mountains close to the town of Reedle. In Selenica, it is one of his hopes that he can revive the following of Ixion, the patron of his wife and the patron of the city itself, as Ixion=92= s worship has been declining in the later years. Inspired by the Ierendi Crown Tourney, in AC 1007 he came upon the idea that to further the spirit of cooperation among adventurers, who often lead solitary lives in their various groups, by setting up a competition for groups of adventurers. The first of these is to take place in the summer of AC 1008. In AC 1008, Lord Wystead was an old widower of 81 years. Even though he is retired, he remains a reserve colonel in the Army of Darokin and may be called upon as an advisor or leader. A coupe of things for those who wonder... 1. Naturally the "Challenge of Champions" is sort of the predecessor to the later World Games which Darokin will begin in AC 1012. One of the PWAs say that Corwyn Mauntea thought of the games at the height of the war, yet couldn't go through with them at the time. Well, he thought of them by taking the idea from the "Challenge of Champions" (which was in turn taken from the Ierendi Crown Tourney). This was one reason why the first World Games were set in Selenica. 2. Although Darokin City is obviously the capital of Darokin, I've put the Adventurers' Guild in Selenica partially because of the "cross-national" nature Wystead hopes the further, but also because of his association with the Hallonica family, of course. I wanted the Guild not to be too 'national', and Selenica seems to see itself as fairly independent... I'm not sure if it was the ideal choice, though, so feedback on that issue would be appreciated if anyone has something to share... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 19:10:55 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dave Keyser Organization: Palmchip Subject: Re: Dissappointing Novels Comments: cc: KeepRofZ@CS.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Shawn J." wrote: > In a message dated 8/3/01 6:03:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dave@PALMCHIP.COM > writes: > > > > I actually read through the whole thing, although it > > > was some time ago. I've decided to use some of the > > > characters in the Trilogy, but to change/ignore the > > > storyline, as I totally agree with you on the quality > > > of the thing. It was a fantastic display of ignorance > > > of Mystara. :( > > > > I chalk the whole trilogy up as a fictional story based on > > the legends of Argos, the great green dragon of Dymrak. > > This was actually mentioned in the adventure box Hail > > the Heroes, where the first book was quoted, and the > > text mentions it is a strange work either fictional or > > describing the distant future. > > Sorry Dave, but you are just slightly mistaken---"Hail the Heroes" refers > to the "Dragonlords of Mystara" novel which seems to describe a setting in Check again. Not the back of the book, which does indeed refer to the first Dragonlord book. Check the entries when the PCs are doing research in the Magic-user's Guild in Mirros, you will find the author of one of the quotes to be Johanna Menhir, taken from the first Penhalgion book. I will check the page reference tonight and give you a more specific reference tomorrow. > > > After buying that adventure box set, I was tempted to > > write back to TSR, "Apology accepted." > > It guess that no "apology" was ever proffered by TSR. :^( But, if you > haven't read the books, try the first one; it's not disappointing if you > read it as an "embellished" tale. > > After the quote, read the description of the book the PCs have just read from. If I were to paraphrase it, it would be, "Alright, we screwed up with that trilogy and destroyed a country we have now produced a big box set for. We apologize and now officially retcon the trilogy out of the way. Dave Keyser ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 19:21:25 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: The Dragon of Dymrak In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > This is tied in to the story line of some pcs IMC. > If anyone wants to know > more..this is just a brief summary of the info. I'd definately like to see more.... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 20:11:32 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: larry lamb Subject: Re: Dragon Slaying (was Dymark Dragon) In-Reply-To: <20010806210801.5437.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii When you say that the red dosent get a save from cold based attacks, that sounds like a first edition rule. In that rule set dragons dont save agenst some attacks. --- Chris Furneaux wrote: > > A single huge red should be able to easily handle > a > > party of 5 10th level > > PCs. Even a tough small red should be > challenging. > > A 13 HD small red could > > have 104 hp, and for most PCs this would be a save > > or die situation vs. it's > > breath. > > Well the fighter has 84 hit points I think. Maybe > more. And was hasted. My PC's tend to save rather > then > die, which sometimes is unfortunate. I just want to > "believably" kill them off, or at least a couple. > And > they won't be going back there soon (although the > dragons might be comming to them). I think they were > fearing for their lives, but they're the sort of > PC's > that when someone goes "we gotta get out of here, > fast!" say "hang on, this is a city where the > streets > are lined with gold, I'm sure we can all carry a few > paving stones with that lining." > > > A thief or MU (or others even, esp. if worn > > down by the dragon's > > allies and defenses to its lair) might be killed > > regardless of the save. > > I didn't get to throw anything at them. They were > invisible, and flying on stuff. Can be very hard to > stop if your making it up as you go along. > > > The breath would disrupt any spells being cast, > and > > if the dragon wins > > initiative in the next round it could finish them > > off with a 2nd breath. > > > What if the dragon were hasted and got double > > attacks? > > no time for it to do that, I think it was a surprise > for everyone, only the PC's came in picking a fight. > > > For a large or huge > > dragon, who have high hit dice, to hit bonuses, up > > to 6 attacks (pre-haste), > > and potent melee damage, this should do a number > on > > the PCs. The kicks, > > tail, and wings can knock PCs down, disarm them, > or > > stun (with a saving > > throw penalty equal to the damage caused (for a > huge > > red, this could be save > > at -14!). > > Well I had him knock the PC's off the carpet (had to > hit them first though) and I think I got them all in > my 6 attacks. But they *insisted* on saving throws > to > get actions next round, which I gave to them at > something like -5 to -10, and I think the mage > definately made this but I can't remember about the > others. > > > Did you have the ice storms cause double damage? > 90 > > seems high (for 2 10HD > > storms), and a huge red saves as a F20. > > Red's don't get saves vs. cold, or at least thats > the > rule we play cause it seems to be something > remembered > from all those years ago when we actually read the > rules. > And 21HD of spell dammage averages out at 73.5 and > the > dragon had 80 HP, so it's not that much. > > > Having the dragons use magic, like you said, is > > good. They could even use > > some items in their hoard (rings on claws, drink > > potions, etc.). Usually, > > the dragon's tactics will dictate the fight. A > > first strike with breath, > > like you described, should give the wyrm the upper > > hand. I'm surprised that > > the PCs could recover that quickly and fend off > two > > more! > > so was I :p > The dragons revenge will be much worse. > > > If you want to > > test them, play up *all* of the dragon's abilities > > and attacks and don't > > pull any punches. A dragon should be able to > bring > > them to fear. > > I wanted to keep the dragons alive, yes they were > holding their own, but PC's who don't fear death > (well > not yet... but soon hopefully) are a mean opponant. > Especally when you want your monsters to have some > realism and so do fear death. Had the PC's stuck > around they would be dead as a doornob > > The crux of the problem was the PC's always had an > (but not "the") upper hand. dragon breath and > fireball > at two of them first turn. And then I have one less > dragon very fast. The other one gets substantially > dammaged very fast and thus his breath is inefectual > (given his lower HP now) and is better off > attacking. > Rather then see him killed I had him escape combat > for > help. It was a short but viscious combat. The most > satisfying moments were when: > > The dragon hits: > PC: "what did he hit me with? (please not the bite)" > DM: "the bite" > PC: "aghhh" > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ===== The "Fighting Bunnys" main site: http://www.angelfire.com/on2/myrobotechgames/index.html To group site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RobotechGame __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 20:15:10 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Penhaligon Trilogy Question In-Reply-To: <20010804162816.28812.qmail@web13106.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Rooster and Greasetounge seem to be the names of two > of their leaders. I was thinking about having tribes > with bird names such as the Rooster Tribe. Also I > have > a Crow Tribe IMC. Greasetounge could be the leader > of > that one. What do you think? Any ideas for > developing > these further? > > Any ideas for more Orc Tribe names? (Preferredly > bird > ones) Sorry about the lack of names for actual orcs, I can't think of any right now. But how about: The red ravens: A menacing band of orcs that are fearcly individulistic fighters, prefering single combat and schirmishing to fighting in bands. Their favorate tatic is drawing small groups of enemys off and pouncing on them. Their chief, (insert name here) is more of a figurehead and respected elder then an actual leader. In battle they tend to be lead by a war leader, who is as eager to fight as any. The ravens get very angry when he is expecting a fight and find their enemy are not obliging. Often they will attack from all sides at once, sourounding and scattering the enemy. The black egale claw clan: Though few in number, this clan is fearsome to fight. While they are not much bigger then normal other orcs, they are to orcs like what rocks are to twigs. Any survivor would say they were built like a brick but twice as thick. But they also are cunning and can be ocationally found fighting alongside orcs from other clans, but always for their own reasons. Their cheif has developed a reputation among some of the other clans and is sometimes refered to as "the great chunky one", "chunky" for short. This is because in his youth he looked as if he was made out of a chunk of solid rock. While he no longer is so big, he has become an even more vicious fighter. He often perfers to parry and grapple in combat, something which his clan is known for. He also is known for his hard head, with which he can dent armour, and even take chips out of stone walls (although that is mostly for show). Usually he carries a large and heavy sword into combat, which other orcs would have trouble weilding but is no problem because of his great strength. His other hand he usually keeps free to disarm opponents, ripping sheilds open to strike. If he does carry a sheild it is usually a large round red and yellow sheild with a large steel boss in the centre. He uses this to barge his opponants or sweep them out of the way offencively. A living example of the best offence is a good defence. Members of this clan tend to be very honourable, well as far as orcs go. The Pheonix clan: A fairly reclusive. Tend to be smarter then the average orc, and even build simple machinery, use a variety of bows, crossbows and ocationally even some seige weapons. They are enemies of the Red Raven clan, although they were originally part of it. They are known to attack to the head viciously in comparison to ther orcs. Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 23:31:20 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: Dragon Slaying (was Dymark Dragon) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > A single huge red should be able to easily handle a > > party of 5 10th level > > PCs. Even a tough small red should be challenging. > > A 13 HD small red could > > have 104 hp, and for most PCs this would be a save > > or die situation vs. it's > > breath. > > Well the fighter has 84 hit points I think. Maybe > more. And was hasted. Wow, very good hp (for OD&D, at least)! IMC there is a F7 w. 50 hp and I thought that was good! Must have a good Con. As for the haste, give the dragon a dispel magic. My PC's tend to save rather then > die, which sometimes is unfortunate. I just want to > "believably" kill them off, or at least a couple. And > they won't be going back there soon (although the > dragons might be comming to them). I think they were > fearing for their lives, but they're the sort of PC's > that when someone goes "we gotta get out of here, > fast!" say "hang on, this is a city where the streets > are lined with gold, I'm sure we can all carry a few > paving stones with that lining." Yes, I know the type. > > A thief or MU (or others even, esp. if worn > > down by the dragon's > > allies and defenses to its lair) might be killed > > regardless of the save. > > I didn't get to throw anything at them. They were > invisible, and flying on stuff. Can be very hard to > stop if your making it up as you go along. Ah, winging it can do that to you! ;-) To really challenge them, have the dragons prepare with a well coordinated and planned out attack. There was once a rogue dwarf IMC who played both his fellow PCs and their enemies to get the maximum advantage for himself. He double-crossed some very powerful evil wizards. They bided their time, and when the dwarf was in the wilderness, alone, the MU teleported in (not within the PCs sight), created some dragons (magical monsters), which breathed on him, wounding him greatly. Then the MU, hit him with a Power Word Stun, and he was taken prisoner. He learned that he was never safe anywhere, since the wizards scryed on him daily. My point is, that a well-planned attack can quickly overwhelm. Dragons, although arrogant, are not stupid, and would not be happy about the PCs embarrassing them in their lair. Have the dragon lure them someplace where the wyrm will have the upper hand, and teach them the meaning of fear! > > Did you have the ice storms cause double damage? 90 > > seems high (for 2 10HD > > storms), and a huge red saves as a F20. > > Red's don't get saves vs. cold, or at least thats the > rule we play cause it seems to be something remembered > from all those years ago when we actually read the > rules. > And 21HD of spell dammage averages out at 73.5 and the > dragon had 80 HP, so it's not that much. Actually, reds would save at -4 vs. ice storm, and at no penalty vs. other cold (AFAIK). I assumed that it would make its saves, so that's why I thought it might have been doubled. But X2 damage w. a save, is almost the same as normal damage, w/o. If you keep the no save rule, throw another kind of dragon at them that isn't susceptible to a certain type of damage. Or else, have the dragon throw some hellhounds, fire giants, salamanders, etc. at them 1st to clear out their cold spells... 80 hp is below average for a huge red. Maybe it was wounded and recovering in its lair, and the next time it will be back to its full 120... But with the right battle plan, even a huge red w. 80 hp should be quite formidable. Have it prepare with defensive spells 1st. Maybe it has a ring of spell storing that can grant resist cold. A shield spell would give it saves vs. Magic missiles. It could have water breathing and lie in wait under water. Give it a detect invis, and make sure it can tell when the PCs are coming (clairvoyance, or just superior dragon hearing , smell, etc.). > The dragons revenge will be much worse. Let us know how it goes. Just don't kill them all! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 23:47:40 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: X2 -- when? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > When did X2 occur in the Mystaran timeline? Is it important? It is > currently AC 967 in my campaign and I'm thinking of using it soon, > especially since the party is of appropriate level and will be in > Glantri soon. Gaz3 does not specify a time, but it is assumed to have > occured prior to AC 1000. > Not sure when its dated. X2 was out long before GAZ3, and although the D'Ambrevilles in the GAZ are based on X2, it was never included in the history. You'd have to make some modifications to make it GAZ compatible, but it would be worth it. X2 is a very fun module, but its also pretty high on the magic content. IMC, the Ambers were missing from Glantri (per X2) for about 100 years after the founding of the GSoM, and did not return until the PCs broke the curse. Then the Ambers rapidly reasserted their power over the next decade or so to fit more with GAZ3. > While you're at it, how about X4/X5? The party will be very high > level by the time WOTI happens, if it even happens at all. These two > modules are brilliant and I wand to use them somewhere. But to make > this work the Master would have to start his campaign about 40 years > before WOTI. > > Thoughts? Sure, start it 40 years before, why not? If the PCs succeed, then The Master's armies will do some damage in Sind, but very little, if anything, to Darokin itself. Then years later, you can run X10 with the more powerful Master described there. Do whatever makes sense FYC, and don't worry too much about the official timeline. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 00:09:35 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: Hollow World Gazetteers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I liked them all, and have used them extensively in a HW campaign that it is still running. Milenia is the best one. That and Nithia, had excellent maps with lots of places for the DM to detail. The names of places, while mostly undescribed, gave me plenty of ideas to base adventures on. I think they also gave substanitial insight into the cultures beyond what was in the HW set. Azca also gave a good amount of new detail (even excessive detail for some things). It didn't inspire as many ideas as the other two, most likely due to the strong grip of Atzanteotl upon that land. Other than the New Way, there weren't as many intrigues and factions as in the other two, but it still is quite useful. As for the SW, other than a lesson in M-cultural history, there isn't a whole lot directly relevant. Milenia has references to the HKs during WotI. If you want more detail, I'd be happy to give it. Dan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:17:46 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Dragon Slaying (was Dymark Dragon) In-Reply-To: <20010807031132.18391.qmail@web13106.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- larry lamb wrote: > When you say that the red dosent get a save from > cold > based attacks, that sounds like a first edition > rule. > In that rule set dragons dont save agenst some > attacks. I have only played OD&D (RC and all the boxed sets) Thought it might be as such. Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 22:34:59 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: X2 -- when? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:05 AM 8/6/01 +0000, you wrote: >When did X2 occur in the Mystaran timeline? Is it important? It is >currently AC 967 in my campaign and I'm thinking of using it soon, >especially since the party is of appropriate level and will be in >Glantri soon. Gaz3 does not specify a time, but it is assumed to have >occured prior to AC 1000. The "official" date is 979 AC. This is from PC4: Night Howlers and Mark of Amber. >While you're at it, how about X4/X5? The party will be very high >level by the time WOTI happens, if it even happens at all. These two >modules are brilliant and I wand to use them somewhere. But to make >this work the Master would have to start his campaign about 40 years >before WOTI. "Official" time varies- it could be 1200 AC (originally postulated by the Gazetteer series), or 1005/1006 AC (WotI and CoM). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 22:46:04 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Wendar In-Reply-To: <005901c11ec8$912b21a0$a9da67d1@jmishler> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:38 PM 8/6/01 -0500, you wrote: > >It also means that there should be some incredibly extensive cavern systems >down there, along the lines of the Shadow elven caverns... hmmm... > >What might be hiding in those caves? I've always assumed that the Wendar elves (who are in at least one source- Gaz5- said to have a resemblance to Shadow Elves) originated on the plateau from underground, remnants of the group that went "under" following the Broken Lands catastrophe. They don't (IMC) live there anymore, but that is where they came from, and where they got their clan artifacts (the Elvenstar and the Ethereal Stone- the stone that is in the shrine of Enoreth in X11: Saga of the Shadowlord). The northern caverns are chock full of magical crystals and things IMC- the aforementioned clan relics, as well as the legendary prisms of Ghyr. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 01:00:37 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Dragon Slaying (was Dymark Dragon) In-Reply-To: <005f01c11ef1$6d95ccd0$e0511f42@D56DN901> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Wow, very good hp (for OD&D, at least)! IMC there > is a F7 w. 50 hp and I > thought that was good! Must have a good Con. > As for the haste, give the dragon a dispel magic. well, it then needs time to cast it.... [snip good advice... thanks] > Let us know how it goes. Just don't kill them all! Well a DM can try... (I've been trying for a while but I'm just too nice) I'll tell you how it goes when I finally get something going. They took the body of the huge red, and I said that I didn't think they could raise it. They insisted on trying, so they rolled for the percent chance (which was a 13%!!!) and then raised him!!! I tell you, thats just way too lucky! Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:58:31 +0300 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Ville V Lahde Subject: X4, X5 and X10 In-Reply-To: <200108070724.f777OhI29942@uta.fi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII 1) An idea for using X4 and X5 I have one solution for using the modules, but I guess it isn't fitting for everybody. IMC I actually had two distinct campaings that were separated by 500 years. Thus I was able to use the modules (in a HIGHLY modified form) in the "ancient" campaign and X10 in the "present" 1011 AC campaign. In effect I have two Nomad Wars, which both signal the ascension of a Hosadus, a chosen one of Thanatos. Why Thanatos? I chose that deity because of the refrences to the Soul gem of Thanatos in X10. I found this a much more fitting solution than having the (one and only) Hosadus launching two invasions in a very short time period. Actally, in the original X4 and X5 he will be killed by the PC's. I never liked the unexplained nature of his reappearance in X10. I mean, if you like time travelling scenarios - you could have the PCs foil the plans of Hosadus in two time periods. AND there's an added bonus here: as Darokin wasn't 500 years ago the large empire we know now, you can use the idea of defending "the Republic". getting the PCs to defend Sind might be a little difficult (depending on the PCs of course!). 2) Problems with X10 Have you ever wondered about the clear lack of playtesting with some of these modules? X10 is one of the best modules I've ever seen, but it's riddled with problems and obscurities. I simply can't understand this. If used without any modifications, the module will fail miserably. a) If you use the army statistics and War Machine rules without any modifications, it's virtually impossible for the Nomads to pose a serious threat to Darokin. By serious I mean your regular end-of-our-beautiful-meritocracy-as-we-know-it kind of thing. The nomads can possibly get Akorros and besiege Corunglain and/or Darokin for a while. But that's it. Of course Gazetteers change a lot of this, not to mention WotI, but I just wonder how they meant the module to work in the first place. b) In the WM rules you have a stacking limit of two units/warring nation, but a seemingly unlimited "combine units" option. Combining units totally offsets the intention of the stacking rule. Well, anyway one has to remove the stacking limit to allow Nomads to conquer ANY cities. (Also, siege rules need adjustments.) c) The module pack lacks many things that are mentioned elsewhere, like Heldannan unit descriptions for Battlesystem, Unit type classifications of War Machine (needed for modifier calculations), prerolled characters, Akesoli chase flow chart (and the needed symbols in the charts anyway!) etc. d) The central magical elements which determine the course of the adventure are mentioned very briefly: The Crystal Dagger of Cymorrak, Soul Gem of Light and Soul Gem of Thanatos. No background info is given, and their role in the conflict remains a bit of a boring deus ex machina. Also, the Soul Gem encounter is extremely weird. On page 24 the PC's are given a chance to get their hands on that vital item, "the power source" of the Crystal Dagger. It isn't easy, however, as the cleric holding the item has a word of recall. So very likely the PC's are left with the blade and the hilt of the dagger, both powerless. BUT on page 26 the Glantrian envoy Laran will simply assemble the dagger, whether the PC's found the pieces or not! The whole Soul Gem incident is robbed of meaning. (The only sensible way to keep the story credible would be to give the PC's instructions for assembling the dagger. but first they would have to regain the Soul gem from Hosadus.) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 14:43:39 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "Giulio N. Caroletti" Subject: Re: Adventurers' Guild of Selenica MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > He is too old to adventure now, but a few years he set up the Adventurers� > Guild in Selenica. He has a small estate with a house in the city where he > had a tavern-house built to serve as headquarters for the guild, and many > young adventurers have come to the support of his initiative, making the > guild buzz with rumor, tall tales, new events in the world, stories of lost > treasures, etc. When did he exactly found the Guild ? It could be interesting to know, because I would be interested, if you don't mind, to write a couple of NPCs for the Guild (all referring to AC 1008 as you suggested), but I need to know when the Guild was founded. Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 14:48:41 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "Giulio N. Caroletti" Subject: Re: Domains of Ostland - Ostmanland (long) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Thorir utilizes all who come into contact with him. For him, it�s just a way of life. He is very reminiscent (is it the correct word?) of Thincol Torion. Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 10:41:29 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Zzonga Alex wrote: >All in all, I think that the thread went fairly well up until now; none of >the usual sniping was seen. Dave, David, Dan what do you guys think? Geoff, >what about you? The real question is will it continue to be civil? So far, there seems to have been pretty fair exchange, and I'd like it to stay that way. People are always free to state their views, but I see here the possibility of a flame war in the future. So right now I will keep tabs on what's being said. Everyone, try to avoid accusations, intentional or otherwise. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 10:55:52 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Zzonga You said: >It may have been civil because of your brow-beating and bullying statements >to the effect that you "see no point in these discussions", but then proceed >to give your own view at length, as if you're saying to those who have >different preferences that you see no point in them having their say, and >things won't continue to be civil if you get contradicted by people who >favor Thyatis instead of Alphatia. That's the sort of thing I want to avoid. You can have a perfectly constructive debate without saying that someone is issuing brow-beating or bullying statements; regardless of whether or not the accusations are true, I don't like to see them. It's only a quick jump from here to full-blown insults. You guys have shown restraint so far on what would normally be considered a touchy topic, and I appreciate it, but keep in mind that the List Ogre (upgraded from Orc status following the installation of Mace.of.Destruction v 2.0) will step in if necessary. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 14:03:40 EDT Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Zzonga MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Geoff Said: <<>Alex wrote: >All in all, I think that the thread went fairly well up until now; none of >the usual sniping was seen. Dave, David, Dan what do you guys think? Geoff, >what about you? The real question is will it continue to be civil? > So far, there seems to have been pretty fair exchange, and I'd like it to stay that way.=A0 People are always free to state their views, but I see here the possibility of a flame war in the future.=A0 So right now I will keep tabs on what's being said.=A0 Everyone, try to avoid accusations, intentional or otherwise.>> no problem chief. arguing takes to much effort and I am particularly stresse= d=20 for time right now. feeling a bit lazy too and my back and shoulder are=20 giving me fits. anyway...i am power-leveling my archer/item enchanter on=20 Asheron's Call. i got to get the old girl up to speed so she can get her=20 uber-armor and composite bow.=20 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 20:23:48 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Domains of Ostland Feedback Giulio N. Caroletti wrote: > > ROLLO THE CRUEL > > Well...I don't know why, but this character makes me think of the evil jarl > in "Erik the Viking", the film...was it John Cleese that starred that role? > Well, just rambling, anyway... I can honestly say that I wasn't thinking of him, when I was writing. I haven't seen that film since it ran in movie theaters; what's that, 10 years ago? :) > > Thorir utilizes all who come into contact with him. For him, it's just a way of life. > > He is very reminiscent (is it the correct word?) of Thincol Torion. Yeah, I guess. I don't think he'd mind being compared to Thincol. Thanks for commenting, even if you don't actually have anything to say. ;) Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 12:23:07 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: John Calvin Subject: More timelines available MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thanks to Aaron Nowack and Jacob Skyte there are several new event files to use in the Khoronus Timeline program. Check them out. The program can be found at: http://www.geocities.com/chimpman.geo/Install.html and new events can be found at : http://www.geocities.com/chimpman.geo/Events.html Enjoy, and thanks to Aaron and Jacob who both put in a lot of work converting files. John ===== Rule #53. If the beautiful princess that I capture says "I'll never marry you! Never, do you hear me, NEVER!!!", I will say "Oh well" and kill her. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 23:46:36 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: jason o'brien Subject: Re: Domains of Ostland - Osterlo (long) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > THE CLAN DOMAIN OF OSTERLO Top marks yet again. > THE STORM SERPENT I like. Keep em coming. Mortus. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 19:54:28 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: Dragon Slaying (was Dymark Dragon) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > They took the body of the huge red, and I said that I > didn't think they could raise it. They insisted on > trying, so they rolled for the percent chance (which > was a 13%!!!) and then raised him!!! I tell you, thats > just way too lucky! Took the body? How did they carry it? I wouldn't think that it would fit in a bag of holding, and being dead, would need a pretty high level teleport any object. I'm not sure what it would weigh, but I wouldn't think a flying carpet could carry it. As for raising, raise dead will only work on humans and demi-humans, while RD Fully will work on anything (formally) living. So what are they going to do with it now? If reds were lawful, I'd say an overwhelming retalitory strike / search & rescue would in order, but with reds being chaotic, they might just take advantage of the void in leadership to serve their own ends. In other words, the huge red might be on his own, until he can return to the lair and reassert his power. Good luck. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 16:49:43 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: The Stalker Subject: Re: Adventurers' Guild of Selenica MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, 7 Aug 2001 14:43:39 +0200, Giulio N. Caroletti wrote: >> He is too old to adventure now, but a few years he set up the Adventurers=92 >> Guild in Selenica. He has a small estate with a house in the city where he >> had a tavern-house built to serve as headquarters for the guild, and many= >> young adventurers have come to the support of his initiative, making the >> guild buzz with rumor, tall tales, new events in the world, stories of lost >> treasures, etc. > >When did he exactly found the Guild ? >It could be interesting to know, because I would be interested, if you don't >mind, >to write a couple of NPCs for the Guild (all referring to AC 1008 as you >suggested), >but I need to know when the Guild was founded. > Well, I intentionally left that vague because I didn't know myself, and in those cases I prefer to say nothing because I don't want to be tied to a loose answer I'll regret later... I assume he set up the group a few years before. Perhaps this was tied to the invasion of the Master. One idea I had (but didn't mention) was that Wystead also envisioned turning all these adventurers into the Army of Adventurers in case of some big emergency, like in the case of the Master's invasion. If that is the case, the Guild would have been founded just after the Master was beat back in AC 1006. But if you have a better suggestion, by all means make it! It could easily be much better than mine, since I haven't given it that much thought... If you want to detail members of the guild, let me point out that several of the members serving as referees during the Challenge of Champions were actually named in the adventure. None of the members of the groups that participated were named, however, except for the wizard Skragga who tried to cheat (he tried using Drawmij's Instant Summons to teleport a Ring of Telekinesis to him) and was disqualified (and then tried to ruin it for everybody else). Incidentally, my players just went through the Challenge of Champions, and I'm pleased to say that they won the competition with maximum points (400)! As winners they were invited to Wystead's estate near Reedle where they could marvel at his trophy room (including the head of Very Old Red Dragon, which he explained the Streel Hunters had killed about fifty years ago, though they had lost their paladin...). They immediately took a liking to him, especially the minotaur fighter IMC, since Wystead had personally intervened to allow him into the Challenge of Champions when some of the bureaucratic Guild members opposed his entry. An interesting thing was when Wystead asked if he (the minotaur fighter) often faced prejudice as a minotaur, and when he naturally said yes, Wycraft asked if he had ever considered having his curse as a minotaur broken... That gave the player a lot to think, and he is still pondering that option... - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 02:50:41 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: "Giulio N. Caroletti" Subject: Re: Domains of Ostland Feedback MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > Thanks for commenting, even if you don't actually have anything to say. ;) > > Jacob Skytte Hey, isn't it good to know somebody's reading? 8-) Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 20:58:18 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: X4, X5 and X10 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > 1) An idea for using X4 and X5 > > I have one solution for using the modules, but I guess it isn't fitting > for everybody. IMC I actually had two distinct campaings that were > separated by 500 years. Thus I was able to use the modules (in a HIGHLY > modified form) in the "ancient" campaign and X10 in the "present" 1011 AC > campaign. > > In effect I have two Nomad Wars, which both signal the ascension of a > Hosadus, a chosen one of Thanatos. Why Thanatos? I chose that deity > because of the refrences to the Soul gem of Thanatos in X10. > > I found this a much more fitting solution than having the (one and > only) Hosadus launching two invasions in a very short time period. > Actally, in the original X4 and X5 he will be killed by the PC's. I never > liked the unexplained nature of his reappearance in X10. I like what you did with it. IMC I had NWI and NWII, but within a shorter time span (and actually, a 3rd invasion later on during WotI, but that is a "new Master"). I think the explanation for the Master's return was that in X5 it most likely was only the avatar that was defeated, not the old guy in the coffin. If somehow, the PCs do defeat them both, creative DMs can come up with a solution. > 2) Problems with X10 > > Have you ever wondered about the clear lack of playtesting with some of > these modules? X10 is one of the best modules I've ever seen, but it's > riddled with problems and obscurities. I simply can't understand this. If > used without any modifications, the module will fail miserably. Not in my experience. It took a while to complete the whole thing with all of the war machine and battlesystem, but it was well worth it. > a) If you use the army statistics and War Machine rules without any > modifications, it's virtually impossible for the Nomads to pose a serious > threat to Darokin. By serious I mean your regular > end-of-our-beautiful-meritocracy-as-we-know-it kind of thing. The nomads > can possibly get Akorros and besiege Corunglain and/or Darokin for a > while. But that's it. Of course Gazetteers change a lot of this, not to > mention WotI, but I just wonder how they meant the module to work in the > first place. Darokin city fell within 5 months IMC and the govt had to relocate. Without the PCs actions as ambassadors, it probably would have stayed conquered. And several PCs were killed during their missions, so it was not easy. Ylaruam took Specularum, and Thyatis had to bail them out (with a PC agreeing to spy for Thincol in NW), claiming the western portion of Karameikos back into Thyatis. If I had the GAZ info at the time, I would have had Thyatis reclaim the whole thing (but back then there was no established connection between the two and Thyatis's interests were directed elsewhere). So, the Nomads made a strong push, but the PCs diplomacy turned the tide by bringing in other nations. I think this is how they wanted it to work. > b) In the WM rules you have a stacking limit of two units/warring nation, > but a seemingly unlimited "combine units" option. Combining units totally > offsets the intention of the stacking rule. Well, anyway one has to > remove the stacking limit to allow Nomads to conquer ANY cities. (Also, > siege rules need adjustments.) I forget how I handled this, but I don't think I combined units. The stacking thing helped to keep it manageable. > c) The module pack lacks many things that are mentioned elsewhere, like > Heldannan unit descriptions for Battlesystem, Unit type classifications of > War Machine (needed for modifier calculations), prerolled characters, > Akesoli chase flow chart (and the needed symbols in the charts anyway!) > etc. Yes, they spaced on the Heldanners, but they were assumed to be similar to the other northmen at that time. I think the army stats are similar, anyways. I'm not sure what you mean by unit type classifications. I agree that the flowchart was kind of lame. A map of the city would have been much better. > d) The central magical elements which determine the course of the > adventure are mentioned very briefly: The Crystal Dagger of Cymorrak, Soul > Gem of Light and Soul Gem of Thanatos. No background info is given, and > their role in the conflict remains a bit of a boring deus ex machina. Some background would help, yes, but it also is a great opportunity for the DM to flesh this stuff out on his own. I think this module may have been released before the Master's Set described Artifacts, so the lack of detail is to be expected. But I agree that a bit more would have been nice. In fact, IMC, a PC was captured by the Master and sacrificed to the Soul Gem, and I pretty much had to wing it. I think the whole Crystal Dagger vs. Soul Gem thing helped to give the PCs some focus aside from the diplomacy. Certainly adventure plots have gotten more detailed and sophisticated since X10, but IMO, this is an example of classic high fantasy. > Also, the Soul Gem encounter is extremely weird. On page 24 the PC's are > given a chance to get their hands on that vital item, "the power source" > of the Crystal Dagger. It isn't easy, however, as the cleric holding the > item has a word of recall. So very likely the PC's are left with the blade > and the hilt of the dagger, both powerless. I would play the Commander with the gem as an arrogant and overconfident villain, and would have him fight to the death against the PCs, unless they really slipped up, in which case I'd use the recall. The point is to challenge them and then have them get the gem (after a chase scenario to track down the Agents). > BUT on page 26 the Glantrian envoy Laran will simply assemble the dagger, > whether the PC's found the pieces or not! The whole Soul Gem incident is > robbed of meaning. (The only sensible way to keep the story credible > would be to give the PC's instructions for assembling the dagger. but > first they would have to regain the Soul gem from Hosadus.) I see your point, but for plot purposes, you want to have the climactic showdown with the Legion of Doom and then the confrontation with the Master in Sayr Ulan. So, I'd just avoid having the guy escape with the gem. Just make it a tough fight getting it! If you do come up with any modifications to this, keep us posted. The notes on your campaign have been quite interesting so far! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 20:32:20 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: M Novy Subject: Re: Arboleth (was: Dragon of Dymrak) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I will definitely add more to the story...it is possible that Arboleth and Argos could be spawned from the same mother.......who knows.....I came up with the idea for a few characters when they got higher levels........ >From: Havard Faanes >Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion >To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >Subject: [MYSTARA] Arboleth (was: Dragon of Dymrak) >Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 18:51:47 +0200 > >Mighty Argos, the adventure was never published. This >might actually be just aswell, as it would probably >just have been a dungeon adventure with a fancy map, >cardboard miniatures and a nasty dragon at the end. > >I'm in a creative mood these days so more related >articles might be coming up in not too long. Also I >like tying these articles of mine together as you may >already have noticed :) > >I like your idea about Arboleth. The name is cool too. >Do you think Arboleth is another of Argos' >lieutenants? >I would really like to see a more detailed writeup of >this one. If you manage to sneak in a few references >to Argos in the desciption, that would be really cool >aswell. Maybe he and Verdilith are competing about >who's second in line of being the most powerful dragon >in Karameikos? > >H�vard > > >--- M Novy skrev: > This >article is very useful. Thanks. I am still > > wondering if the 2nd > > edition product The Mighty Argos ever made it out > > while Mystara was still in > > production. I am very interested in the other > > articles linked to this. The > > one about the goblins was sweet. IMC there is > > actually another green dragon > > in Karameikos. His name is Arboleth. He is a > > dragon that comes out once > > every 50-75 years or so to trash the village of > > verge and some surrounding > > areas if they dont pay hommage to him. This doesnt > > mean he just sits around > > in his cave, but he only shows up in this part of > > karameikos that much. It > > gives the people a "legend". His mother before him > > actually started doing > > this, and the people just paid her homage everytime > > she showed up. > > > > This is tied in to the story line of some pcs IMC. > > If anyone wants to know > > more..this is just a brief summary of the info. > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > > >******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: > > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > To unsubscribe, send email to > > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > >______________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 20:35:33 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: M Novy Subject: Re: 3e site for Mystara Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I understand. I am actually one of those who think that 20th level is 36th level od&d....I do have the karameikos gazeteer thought...I will look it over..I did check it out in the DotE boxset. >From: Havard Faanes > >Your website looks promising, and I'm looking forward >to seeing the rest of the Karameikan NPCs converted to >3E. >The Terari conversion looks good, although I think it >would have looked pretty different if you had based it >on the OD&D writeup rather than the 2nd Ed one. In >OD&D Terari is IRC a 36th level wizard and by AC1010 >he should be Mystaras most powerful mage. I think it >would be a good idea to employ the extra rules for >extra powerful characters for this one. > >Havard. > > > >______________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Organiser sammenkomsten p� http://no.invites.yahoo.com > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 20:41:13 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: M Novy Subject: Re: Hollow World Gazetteers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I havent actually read all of them yet, but I do have them all. I am really fond of the nithian empire. I am an egyptian freak if you will.... >From: Mike Harvey >Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion >To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >Subject: [MYSTARA] Hollow World Gazetteers >Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:24:16 -0700 > >Are the hollow world supplements (HWR series, HWQ series, etc) >worthwhile picking up? I'm not sure I plan to run anything in the >Hollow World, but I always have my eye out for high quality source >material. Do these expand much on surface-world history and culture? >Also I'm thinking that the Milenian stuff might be very useful for a >Davania campaign...? > >Thanks, >Mike > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 19:22:35 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara RPG Discussion Sender: Mystara RPG Discussion From: Dave Keyser Organization: Palmchip Subject: Quote from Dragon's Tomb found in Hail the Heroes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Shawn J." wrote: > > > > I chalk the whole trilogy up as a fictional story based on > > the legends of Argos, the great green dragon of Dymrak. > > This was actually mentioned in the adventure box Hail > > the Heroes, where the first book was quoted, and the > > text mentions it is a strange work either fictional or > > describing the distant future. > > Sorry Dave, but you are just slightly mistaken---"Hail the Heroes" refers > to the "Dragonlords of Mystara" novel which seems to describe a setting in > Glantri's distant past that is more akin to Krynn than Mystara (yet is still > compelling and /could/ fit, esp. if all remnants of it were obliterated by > the ravages of time). Havard refers instead to the "The Tainted Sword" > Trilogy, which features Johauna Menhir as the main character and Verdilith as > the primary villain. I recently reread the series and although I must agree > with Havard that, for the most part, only the first book is commendable, the > other two are still worthy of a single read if you are not an > ultra-discriminating reader. The reference can be found in the HtH adventure booklet, on page 16, second column. It is Clue #7, the actual quote can be found on Track 19 of the CD. The explanation for the track states: Description of the village of Threshold; from The Dragon's Tomb, by Johauna Menhir. This small volume, written by an adventurer, tells the tale of a magical sword and an epic battle. While the information given in this passage(ie Track #19) is not necessarily false, it is misleading, for it depicts Threshold as a very small village, when it is really a town with about 5000 residents. Since the date of the manuscript is not given, it is difficult to tell whether the author was writing entertaining fiction without a real basis in fact or if the adventure simply took place before Threshold grew to its present size. So it is really up to you how the Tainted Sword trilogy fits into Mystara. But for me, it will never be anything more than some bad fiction written by a failed adventurer who then tried to make a living as a hack writer before meeting a sad, ignoble end, kind of like that halfling author in PWA 1011. Man, it's been 10 years and I still get mad when I think about that trilogy. I need to relax. There are a few things that can be used though, I adopted the Order of the Suns for my campaign, although the number of knights is small. Having Argos follow Verdilith's schemes from the book is also good campaign fodder. Dave ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message.