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looking for ideas

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
rexaroo
Jul 12, 2005 12:28:44 i just had a high level wizard and a high level sorcerer end up in athas.

how should i handle the preserver/defiler thing?

should they start off pulling too much power into thier spells (and thus defile)? or should they start off preserving as the default and wonder why everyone is so upset at their casting?

maybe they should make will saves to not defile because the magic-rush is too addictive?

has any one run into this? and if so how'd you handle it?

thanks
#2
Sysane
Jul 12, 2005 12:38:00 Look HERE. This may give you some ideas.
#3
rexaroo
Jul 12, 2005 12:53:49 there are also 4 paladins in the group.

and thanks for that link!!! a lot of good ideas there!!
#4
Sysane
Jul 12, 2005 13:04:11
there are also 4 paladins in the group.

I'd rule that their paladin powers would no longer work on Athas due to them being cut off from their god(s) and the lack of astral conduits.

Thats just me though.
#5
huntercc
Jul 12, 2005 14:21:32 As for divine powers (clerics, paladins, etc) try to imagine what happened in Dragonlance when all the gods disappeared... only permanent
#6
vh_2k
Jul 12, 2005 14:56:25 Paladins would/should lose all their powers and become standard fighters and the wizards should lose their casting abilities until they learn how to draw on the life energy of Athas. Then they can be given an opportunity to choose which path they want to take.
#7
Sysane
Jul 12, 2005 15:24:23 If you don't want to be that harsh with you players I'd suggest having them take a penalty to their arcane caster level (maybe a -4 if they are high level) till they learn how to effective cast spells on Athas thru preserving or defiling.

As for the paladins, you could have them operate 3 to 4 levels lower than their actual level for purpose of their devine granted class abilities.
#8
ruhl-than_sage
Jul 12, 2005 15:34:42
As for the paladins, you could have them operate 3 to 4 levels lower than their actual level for purpose of their devine granted class abilities.

That actually has some precident. I think it was in the City by the Sea of Silt module that there was a cleric from another plane, who had gotten to athas through Dregoth's planar gate. He still had spell casting ability from his god, but it was extremely diminshed.
#9
Sysane
Jul 12, 2005 15:41:28
That actually has some precident. I think it was in the City by the Sea of Silt module that there was a cleric from another plane, who had gotten to athas through Dregoth's planar gate. He still had spell casting ability from his god, but it was extremely diminshed.

That was the fire giant shaman, correct?
#10
ruhl-than_sage
Jul 12, 2005 15:47:18 :D right you are! It might have been the fact that he was connected to the element of fire that allowed him to retain some of his spells, but I don't think that was part of the explaination at all.
#11
Sysane
Jul 12, 2005 15:50:56
:D right you are! It might have been the fact that he was connected to the element of fire that allowed him to retain some of his spells, but I don't think that was part of the explaination at all.

I think they were trying to apply 2e planescape logic to the shaman when it actually doesn't work in Athas' case.
#12
ruhl-than_sage
Jul 12, 2005 16:10:22 How so?
#13
Sysane
Jul 12, 2005 16:17:15
How so?

The whole "great ring" philosophy and what not. Its great for planescape, but it can't really be applied to Athas due to its unique place in the multiverse.
#14
Pennarin
Jul 12, 2005 19:10:36 Look, if it weren't for the numerous anomalous mentions of astral and outer planar beings here and there in DS products, as well as the few purposeful mentions of such beings in Black Spines and Dregoth Ascending (not to forget the psurlons), its a good bet the Overcouncil would have made the athas.org DS into a closed universe, like you can do now in 3E and has been done for Eberron.
#15
zombiegleemax
Jul 13, 2005 1:58:23
Look, if it weren't for the numerous anomalous mentions of astral and outer planar beings here and there in DS products, as well as the few purposeful mentions of such beings in Black Spines and Dregoth Ascending (not to forget the psurlons), its a good bet the Overcouncil would have made the athas.org DS into a closed universe, like you can do now in 3E and has been done for Eberron.

I'd say it should be a closed universe, and the instances of other planes dealt with in fashions that don't require extratraneous influences. For instance, the githyanki in Blank Spines could be explained as evolved gith from a demi-plane in the Black. Dregoth's planar gating could be a bit hairy to explain, but I've read some good ideas in the archives for that too. Just my two bits, though.
#16
zombiegleemax
Jul 13, 2005 2:04:19
there are also 4 paladins in the group.

and thanks for that link!!! a lot of good ideas there!!

Paladins :D :evillaugh Please let us know how long they survive. I'll start taking bets
#17
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Jul 13, 2005 3:45:32 *normal* PHB paladins.... well.... those are always a blast. Lemme guess.... you play with the Paizo-rendition of Dark Sun? ;)
#18
ruhl-than_sage
Jul 13, 2005 3:52:21 Well in his case and in any other case were characters are coming from another would, or the outerplanes, it wouldn't be a closed universe. If there are gods on other primes in your game, then the planescape interpretation makes sense to use. :P
#19
dawnstealer
Jul 13, 2005 11:12:48 This might have been said in an earlier post, but I'm too lazy to read them all :P.

Any "outside" arcane magic user would not function as such on Athas: Athas was never meant to have magic and that's why it is parasitic in nature (sucks the life out of the world in order to work). Wizards on Athas use an offshoot form of psionics to control and use life energy around them.

Paladins wouldn't work because they're cut off from their deities. They'd retain their fighting abilities, but anything supernatural would go out the window.
#20
rexaroo
Jul 13, 2005 12:49:46
*normal* PHB paladins.... well.... those are always a blast. Lemme guess.... you play with the Paizo-rendition of Dark Sun? ;)

no. i like the old school feel of burnt world better.

they were adventuring in a place called the nexus--which connects to every-where and every-when.

long story short- they were fighting orcus in the nexus who was trying to take it over. the nexus turned out to be intellegent and helped force orcus to a world that he couldnt escape from. none of them made their saves and got sucked in after him. and found themselves facing a blasted desert landscape with a giant red sun and olive green sky.

yes, i gave them a little nudge thru the door but they were getting waaaaaay to crazypowerful and needed taking down a peg. plus athas is a great place to go epic. it was totally made for it. i mean they'll totally shape up after their first encounter with a 70+ level SK.

without paladins

and to be kind to them, i was thinking of letting them petition oronis for 'divine' sponsership. at the very least he could use epic magic to bond with them in a paladin-esque thing.

i mean dregoth is so colse to godhood why not the quiet one to the north as well? and seeing as i dropped a demigod of the undead on athas, things should start to get really interesting.

and to all you really old-schoolers: quit your cringing at whats about to happen. ;)
#21
zombiegleemax
Jul 15, 2005 0:51:26
without paladins

"I love the smell of dead paladins in the morning. That smell, y'know, the sickly sweet rotting do-gooder smell. It smells like...like victory."
#22
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Jul 15, 2005 4:58:16 Well, personally - I do have Paladins as a possibility in my games. Of course, they are hardly the PHB paladins, but are rather more like a militant branch of the city government, under the Sorcerer-King's rule. Basically, my paladins for the most part are Paladins of Tyranny (as per the Unearthed Arcana rules modification), but without the ability to cast spells (instead, they have the modification presented from Complete Warrior).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 rexaroo Jul 12, 2005 12:28:44	i just had a high level wizard and a high level sorcerer end up in athas. how should i handle the preserver/defiler thing? should they start off pulling too much power into thier spells (and thus defile)? or should they start off preserving as the default and wonder why everyone is so upset at their casting? maybe they should make will saves to not defile because the magic-rush is too addictive? has any one run into this? and if so how'd you handle it? thanks
#2 Sysane Jul 12, 2005 12:38:00	Look HERE. This may give you some ideas.
#3 rexaroo Jul 12, 2005 12:53:49	there are also 4 paladins in the group. and thanks for that link!!! a lot of good ideas there!!
#4 Sysane Jul 12, 2005 13:04:11	there are also 4 paladins in the group. I'd rule that their paladin powers would no longer work on Athas due to them being cut off from their god(s) and the lack of astral conduits. Thats just me though.
#5 huntercc Jul 12, 2005 14:21:32	As for divine powers (clerics, paladins, etc) try to imagine what happened in Dragonlance when all the gods disappeared... only permanent
#6 vh_2k Jul 12, 2005 14:56:25	Paladins would/should lose all their powers and become standard fighters and the wizards should lose their casting abilities until they learn how to draw on the life energy of Athas. Then they can be given an opportunity to choose which path they want to take.
#7 Sysane Jul 12, 2005 15:24:23	If you don't want to be that harsh with you players I'd suggest having them take a penalty to their arcane caster level (maybe a -4 if they are high level) till they learn how to effective cast spells on Athas thru preserving or defiling. As for the paladins, you could have them operate 3 to 4 levels lower than their actual level for purpose of their devine granted class abilities.
#8 ruhl-than_sage Jul 12, 2005 15:34:42	As for the paladins, you could have them operate 3 to 4 levels lower than their actual level for purpose of their devine granted class abilities. That actually has some precident. I think it was in the City by the Sea of Silt module that there was a cleric from another plane, who had gotten to athas through Dregoth's planar gate. He still had spell casting ability from his god, but it was extremely diminshed.
#9 Sysane Jul 12, 2005 15:41:28	That actually has some precident. I think it was in the City by the Sea of Silt module that there was a cleric from another plane, who had gotten to athas through Dregoth's planar gate. He still had spell casting ability from his god, but it was extremely diminshed. That was the fire giant shaman, correct?
#10 ruhl-than_sage Jul 12, 2005 15:47:18	:D right you are! It might have been the fact that he was connected to the element of fire that allowed him to retain some of his spells, but I don't think that was part of the explaination at all.
#11 Sysane Jul 12, 2005 15:50:56	:D right you are! It might have been the fact that he was connected to the element of fire that allowed him to retain some of his spells, but I don't think that was part of the explaination at all. I think they were trying to apply 2e planescape logic to the shaman when it actually doesn't work in Athas' case.
#12 ruhl-than_sage Jul 12, 2005 16:10:22	How so?
#13 Sysane Jul 12, 2005 16:17:15	How so? The whole "great ring" philosophy and what not. Its great for planescape, but it can't really be applied to Athas due to its unique place in the multiverse.
#14 Pennarin Jul 12, 2005 19:10:36	Look, if it weren't for the numerous anomalous mentions of astral and outer planar beings here and there in DS products, as well as the few purposeful mentions of such beings in Black Spines and Dregoth Ascending (not to forget the psurlons), its a good bet the Overcouncil would have made the athas.org DS into a closed universe, like you can do now in 3E and has been done for Eberron.
#15 zombiegleemax Jul 13, 2005 1:58:23	Look, if it weren't for the numerous anomalous mentions of astral and outer planar beings here and there in DS products, as well as the few purposeful mentions of such beings in Black Spines and Dregoth Ascending (not to forget the psurlons), its a good bet the Overcouncil would have made the athas.org DS into a closed universe, like you can do now in 3E and has been done for Eberron. I'd say it should be a closed universe, and the instances of other planes dealt with in fashions that don't require extratraneous influences. For instance, the githyanki in Blank Spines could be explained as evolved gith from a demi-plane in the Black. Dregoth's planar gating could be a bit hairy to explain, but I've read some good ideas in the archives for that too. Just my two bits, though.
#16 zombiegleemax Jul 13, 2005 2:04:19	there are also 4 paladins in the group. and thanks for that link!!! a lot of good ideas there!! Paladins :D :evillaugh Please let us know how long they survive. I'll start taking bets
#17 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Jul 13, 2005 3:45:32	normal PHB paladins.... well.... those are always a blast. Lemme guess.... you play with the Paizo-rendition of Dark Sun? ;)
#18 ruhl-than_sage Jul 13, 2005 3:52:21	Well in his case and in any other case were characters are coming from another would, or the outerplanes, it wouldn't be a closed universe. If there are gods on other primes in your game, then the planescape interpretation makes sense to use. :P
#19 dawnstealer Jul 13, 2005 11:12:48	This might have been said in an earlier post, but I'm too lazy to read them all :P. Any "outside" arcane magic user would not function as such on Athas: Athas was never meant to have magic and that's why it is parasitic in nature (sucks the life out of the world in order to work). Wizards on Athas use an offshoot form of psionics to control and use life energy around them. Paladins wouldn't work because they're cut off from their deities. They'd retain their fighting abilities, but anything supernatural would go out the window.
#20 rexaroo Jul 13, 2005 12:49:46	normal PHB paladins.... well.... those are always a blast. Lemme guess.... you play with the Paizo-rendition of Dark Sun? ;) no. i like the old school feel of burnt world better. they were adventuring in a place called the nexus--which connects to every-where and every-when. long story short- they were fighting orcus in the nexus who was trying to take it over. the nexus turned out to be intellegent and helped force orcus to a world that he couldnt escape from. none of them made their saves and got sucked in after him. and found themselves facing a blasted desert landscape with a giant red sun and olive green sky. yes, i gave them a little nudge thru the door but they were getting waaaaaay to crazypowerful and needed taking down a peg. plus athas is a great place to go epic. it was totally made for it. i mean they'll totally shape up after their first encounter with a 70+ level SK. without paladins and to be kind to them, i was thinking of letting them petition oronis for 'divine' sponsership. at the very least he could use epic magic to bond with them in a paladin-esque thing. i mean dregoth is so colse to godhood why not the quiet one to the north as well? and seeing as i dropped a demigod of the undead on athas, things should start to get really interesting. and to all you really old-schoolers: quit your cringing at whats about to happen. ;)
#21 zombiegleemax Jul 15, 2005 0:51:26	without paladins "I love the smell of dead paladins in the morning. That smell, y'know, the sickly sweet rotting do-gooder smell. It smells like...like victory."
#22 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Jul 15, 2005 4:58:16	Well, personally - I do have Paladins as a possibility in my games. Of course, they are hardly the PHB paladins, but are rather more like a militant branch of the city government, under the Sorcerer-King's rule. Basically, my paladins for the most part are Paladins of Tyranny (as per the Unearthed Arcana rules modification), but without the ability to cast spells (instead, they have the modification presented from Complete Warrior).