Here is the only PrC I currently have in the works.
You might notice some stuff:
1. The fluff text is nearly the same as that of the Royal Defiler PrC. My imagination failed there.
2. The Animation Reserve ability appears in the Fleshwarper PrC, page 189 of Lords of Madness (WotC). In that book its designed to partially pay for making grafts and such things, items that are permanent. But the Animator Reserve is for making boosted undead, which will end up killed or turned to dust after some time…The numbers may have to be adjusted upward. Also, I barely changed the wording from that book.
3. There is currently no # of ranks and cost in XP for any of the options found under the Shape Undead ability.
4. Since the class mainly gets 1 ability per 2 levels, and sacrifices a +1 spellcaster level per 2 levels, I gave it another good save, Fort, to go with the undead theme.
Feedback and comments are welcomed.
Royal Animator
“If this spy refuses to tell us who his master is, then his corpse will in his stead. Kill him.”
- Ang-Thal, raamin royal animator
Royal animators in service of sorcerer-monarchs have similar duties as royal defilers, with an emphasis on the dead arts. They are often trained in those arts by more powerful defilers in service of the king or queen, and sometimes even personally by the sorcerer-monarch. Royal animators can exert the same authority as templars within the boundaries of their monarch’s city-state. In most of the cities that have lost their dragon kings, animators have been driven away or killed by the populace who have feared them all their lives. These defilers can attain powerful positions in the templar hierarchy and can achieve great personal power. Their duties in the dead arts extend to raising walking dead for gladiatorial games and the creation of undead armies and war machines in times of war. They are also used to pilfer of knowledge the dead minds of corpses, and some sorcerer-monarchs also employ them for particularly horrible punishments.
Humans are ambitious, elves are scrupulous and half-elves have the natural aptitude of their parent races’ aptitude for magic. These three races are the most common royal animators. All royal animators have levels in the wizard class. The most feared agents of the sorcerer-kings are multi-classed templar/defilers who sometimes become royal animators and are the most devoted tools of their liege.
Hit Die: d4.
Requirements
To qualify to become a royal animator, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Skills: Diplomacy 2 ranks, Intimidate 2 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 4 ranks, Knowledge (warcraft) 4 ranks.
Spells: Able to cast 3rd-level arcane spells.
Special: Must be a defiler.
Special: Must be specialized in the Necromancy school of magic.
Special: Acceptance by Sorcerer-King/Queen.
Class Skills:
The royal animator’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Literacy (none), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.
Royal Animator
“If this spy refuses to tell us who his master is, then his corpse will in his stead. Kill him.”
- Ang-Thal, raamin royal animator
Niiiice :D I wasn't too wild about the class (particularly the undead shaping abilty, there are feats in Libris Mortis that do the kinda same thing), but then I saw the anitmator secrets
Overall, I'd say its worth a
Niiiice :D I wasn't too wild about the class (particularly the undead shaping abilty, there are feats in Libris Mortis that do the kinda same thing), but then I saw the anitmator secrets
Effectively, and since DS3 can't mention any other book not core (although a very few instances exist), the options under the Shape Undead ability are ways for me to use the Libris Mortis feats, as well as some necromantic feats found in Dragon Magazine.
If you can't use them, assimilate them!
Effectively, and since DS3 can't mention any other book not core (although a very few instances exist), the options under the Shape Undead ability are ways for me to use the Libris Mortis feats, as well as some necromantic feats found in Dragon Magazine.
If you can't use them, assimilate them!
Forgot about that. Seed of Unlife - You can effectively store an animate dead or raise dead spell in a living creature. The spell is released 1 round after the subjects death, and the creature rises to continue it's task.
The next one is probably better suited for the shape undead ability, but works of Seed of Unlife.
Fleshripper - the activation of the Seed of Unlife mutates the corpse into
a) an advanced creature
so that the visual for this might be - This creature's battling something fierce but dies. Then a larger, more f'd up looking version bursts out through the flesh to continue the fight.
or b) entirely different form of undead creature, as long as the HD do not surpass the advanced form (from a)
so that the visual for this might be - This creature's battling something fierce but dies. Then a swarm of crazy f'n smaller creatures bursts out through the flesh to continue the fight.
Someone playing at home with Libris Mortis will not find this PrC much useful, as the options under the Shape Undead ability are redundant with the Libris feats.
Hmm, there could be two versions of this class, one for Appendix II, and one for the boards, with options that work in concert with the Libris feats, or at least that don't step on their turf.
Swarm Body: Undead vermin that you animate break down into one or more bugdead swarm of your choice (see Appendix 2 of Terrors of the Dead Lands). The total Hit Dice of the undead swarm or swarms has to be equal to or less than the HD of the undead vermin they are composed of. For example, a 12 HD undead rhinoceros beetle can break down into one 8 HD undead athasian locust swarm and one 4 HD undead mini-kank swarm, or any combination of bugdead swarms whose total Hit Dice is equal to or less than 12 HD.
I just added this ability to the options under the Shape Undead ability, it was a suggestion of Bengeldorn if I recall correctly. I'm not sure I'm making it work properly, or that it's worded properly as well.
hey penn, was thinking on some of the ideas we were bouncing around the other day and had a couple ideas strike me that i thought i'd share.
Seed of Unlife - You can effectively store an animate dead or raise dead spell in a living creature. The spell is released 1 round after the subjects death, and the creature rises to continue it's task.
Nice one!
I'll consider a way to make this happen.
I will also make a Stone of Undying, a magical item in the form of an obsidian jewel that you imbed in flesh. On an undead that reaches 0 hit points, the stone defiles and uses the energy to reanimate the undead, basically heals it back to full hit points. (Maybe this will only work on skeletons/zombies/bugdead).
With your idea, I could change a bit the fluff for the stone and make it so that if put on a living being which later dies, it animates him as an undead.
Fleshripper - the activation of the Seed of Unlife mutates the corpse into
a) an advanced creature
so that the visual for this might be - This creature's battling something fierce but dies. Then a larger, more f'd up looking version bursts out through the flesh to continue the fight.
or b) entirely different form of undead creature, as long as the HD do not surpass the advanced form (from a)
so that the visual for this might be - This creature's battling something fierce but dies. Then a swarm of crazy f'n smaller creatures bursts out through the flesh to continue the fight.
Can you explain this more, and a bit better? Sounds interesting...
I added this as a Secret:
Raising Curse: When using bestow curse on a living creature, you can choose to impart a special curse unto it. On a failed save, the creature animates into an undead upon its death, as per the animate dead spell (caster level equals your own).
I believe that the absence of a costly material component is warrented in this case:
1. bestow curse affects one person at a time
2. it requires a touch attack
3. it allows for a save
4. it can be dispelled (break enchantment, remove curse, etc.)
5. you need to kill the target of the spell to rip your reward (a tough thing to do when you curse 200 slave foot-soldiers) or have to wait for a violent death in a battle situation
6. after violent death in a battle situation, the animated creature is uncontrolled unless the royal animator who cursed him is present, in which case the undead can be a danger to the living fighting on his side
I believe the correct way to use this ability is:
1. as a punishment worst than death
2. cursing slave warriors in a SK's army en masse, and then sending them at the front first, and when they die several defilers use control undead on the newly undead slave warriors and send them back in to fight
I have been swamped with alot of stuff the last couple of days and so have not posted until now.
Here is my two bits
Requirements
To qualify to become a royal animator, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Skills: Diplomacy 2 ranks, Intimidate 2 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 4 ranks, Knowledge (warcraft) 4 ranks.
Spells: Able to cast 3rd-level arcane spells.
Special: Must be a defiler.
Special: Must be specialized in the Necromancy school of magic.
Special: Acceptance by Sorcerer-King/Queen.
Instead of saying must be specialized in Necromancy- I would instead make a feat requirement of spell focus (necromancy) or even greater spell focus (necromancy)- Have the latter would not be unreasonable due to the fact that the wizard will need to be a 5th lvl defiler before taking a level in this PrC and they get a bonus feat at 5th lvl.
In my game I give spell focus to specialists. I have even been playing with the idea of making a 10 lvl PrC arcane specialist specifically for Athas, but that is really off topic...
For the Undead Hoarde secreat- I would make the added HD increase like the psionic talent feat- the first time it is taken +2 HD, second +3, third +4, ect... This would make it more interesting to take this ability more then once IMO.
I just realized the real meaning of you statement in your first post Khaine.
Someone playing at home with Libris Mortis will not find this PrC much useful, as the options under the Shape Undead ability are redundant with the Libris feats.
Hmm, there could be two versions of this class, one for Appendix II, and one for the boards, with options that work in concert with the Libris feats, or at least that don't step on their turf.
No prob
By the by, if you make a second version and want it to exist elsewhere than just on the boards, I'll be glad to host it :DSwarm Body: Undead vermin that you animate break down into one or more bugdead swarm of your choice (see Appendix 2 of Terrors of the Dead Lands). The total Hit Dice of the undead swarm or swarms has to be equal to or less than the HD of the undead vermin they are composed of. For example, a 12 HD undead rhinoceros beetle can break down into one 8 HD undead athasian locust swarm and one 4 HD undead mini-kank swarm, or any combination of bugdead swarms whose total Hit Dice is equal to or less than 12 HD.
Raising Curse: When using bestow curse on a living creature, you can choose to impart a special curse unto it. On a failed save, the creature animates into an undead upon its death, as per the animate dead spell (caster level equals your own).
Too cool, failing save against overwhelming coolness... 
:headexplo 
Instead of saying must be specialized in Necromancy- I would instead make a feat requirement of spell focus (necromancy) or even greater spell focus (necromancy)- Have the latter would not be unreasonable due to the fact that the wizard will need to be a 5th lvl defiler before taking a level in this PrC and they get a bonus feat at 5th lvl.
I agree, but mainly because I'm of the no-specialist-wizards-on-Athas school of thought.
This idea is from Squifur-
I added this as a Secret:
SNIP>>
I'm wondering if this shouldn't also work with raise dead.
I believe the correct way to use this ability is:
1. as a punishment worst than death
2. cursing slave warriors in a SK's army en masse, and then sending them at the front first, and when they die several defilers use control undead on the newly undead slave warriors and send them back in to fight
or 3. making for an interesting arena contest, as the gladiators will have to kill the creature twice.
Instead of saying must be specialized in Necromancy- I would instead make a feat requirement of spell focus (necromancy) or even greater spell focus (necromancy)- Have the latter would not be unreasonable due to the fact that the wizard will need to be a 5th lvl defiler before taking a level in this PrC and they get a bonus feat at 5th lvl.
Might be reasonable, but I also like the idea that specialization goes deeper into a school's secrets than Spell Focus. I'll consider it nonetheless.
For the Undead Hoarde secreat- I would make the added HD increase like the psionic talent feat- the first time it is taken +2 HD, second +3, third +4, ect... This would make it more interesting to take this ability more then once IMO.
Its an interesting idea. Anyone think it might be overpowered?
I'm wondering if this shouldn't also work with raise dead.
I'd say No. The class is totally arcane. Although I don't think the dead arts guy in Abbey's novels, Escrissar, was a royal animator. Probably either a necromancer or a templar, I can't recall which.
or 3. making for an interesting arena contest, as the gladiators will have to kill the creature twice.
Nice!
I'm wondering if this shouldn't also work with raise dead.
Oops, the spell I was thinking of was create undead (which opens up greater create undead, too).
Oops, the spell I was thinking of was create undead (which opens up greater create undead, too).
Those spells IMHO are too high level, they would require bestow greater curse (BoVD), and that's not OGC.
Although I don't think the dead arts guy in Abbey's novels, Escrissar, was a royal animator. Probably either a necromancer or a templar, I can't recall which.
Escrissar was an auditor(which says manifester), and IIRC a necromancer. Can't remember if the auditor PrC in it's current state gives secular authority, but if not I'd say throw on a level or two of something that does.
Any areas that need inmprovement? Oh, and some help with the costs for using the Shape Undead ability would be nice.
C'mon, lets help Penn get this one official.
Would like to see some more feedback, guys -so, BUMP
Any areas that need inmprovement? Oh, and some help with the costs for using the Shape Undead ability would be nice.
I trained well those minions...
1. The # of ranks and cost in XP of the Shape Undead abilities.
2. The actual amount of points found in the Animation Reserve.
3. The following suggestion from Kalthandrix (does anyone think it might be overpowered?):
For the Undead Hoarde secreat- I would make the added HD increase like the psionic talent feat- the first time it is taken +2 HD, second +3, third +4, ect... This would make it more interesting to take this ability more then once IMO.
I was just looking over the power for the Undead Hoarde again and I guess I missed that the 2 extra HD was per caster level, allowing them to control, if Defiler 10/ Royal Animator 10, 30 extra HD of undead, along with IIRC 20 HD they get for being 20th lvl. I think it would be really sweet and within the basic idea of this class to let the power build as I had suggested, but perhaps a limit to the number of time they could take the Undead Hoarde secret would be in order if it did increase, say to perhaps a max of 3 times or something.
Here are the three points that are still lacking:
1. The # of ranks and cost in XP of the Shape Undead abilities.
Well, figuring you're gonna want at least a couple to choose from at first level, I'd say pick the 2 or 3 weakest ones and require the 4 ranks of religion - as is the class requirement (but I'm not against an increase in this to perhaps 6 ranks, no more than that though). Now as for my pics for that.Hmmmmm....My intitial thoughts lean towards hardened body, toughened body, and nimble body seem the weakest.
3. The following suggestion from Kalthandrix (does anyone think it might be overpowered?):
My gut tells me that, yes, it would be overpowered for sure without some kind of limit. As for placing a limit on it, however I'd say I'm against the idea. So IMO it's fine as it is.
I think this would be okay, an fits really well with the class concept, as long as you maybe put a restriction on the highest HD creature they could control. I would suggest that the yal animator not be allowed to control a single undead creature that exceeds their character level or maybe their caster level.
I recently ran an encounter with undead (8 skeletons and a fallen 5th level fighter). The cleric in my group made a turning attempt, destroying the skeletons on one go and later turned the fallen, forcing him to cower for 10 rounds. So reguardless of the number of undead a royal animator has, they will always be highly vulnerable to turning, so I would allow someone that is so highly specialized in the creation and control of undead to have alot of them.
That is my two bits.
Here are the three points that are still lacking:
1. The # of ranks and cost in XP of the Shape Undead abilities.
2. The actual amount of points found in the Animation Reserve.
Since I based myself on the amount of point in the Animation Reserve you posted, I'd say keep that amount and start from here since there is a precedent to that kind of amount (ie LoM's fleshwarper).
For the ranks and XP cost, here's what I came up with:
Hardened Body: Ranks: 4; XP Cost: 25 Xp.
Nimble Body: Ranks: 4; XP Cost: 50 Xp.
Toughened Body: Ranks: 7; XP Cost: 75 Xp.
Retributive Death: Ranks: 7; XP Cost: 100 Xp.
Swarm Body: Ranks: 7; XP Cost: 150 Xp.
Battleborn: Ranks: 10; XP Cost: 250 Xp.
Undead Lieutenant: Ranks: 10; XP Cost: 500 Xp
So, for free (that is, using the Animation Reserve's points)a low-level RA could only use the less powerful Shape Undead abilities multiple times, or if he has enought ranks in Religion, just one or a couple of time the more powerful abilities.
I made the abilities relating to intelligence more difficult to learn and more costly, as IMO they should be learned most of the time by more experienced RA, who have learned the ropes creating undead physically more powerful in their low-level .
i guess it hasn't specialized wizards in DS?!
Huh?
Did you mean "I guess there weren't any specialized wizards in DS?!" ?
If so, yes there are, and there were in 2E too.
You're Brazilian...so did you ever go to Dark Sun Brazil, the website?
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/gordalf/5cc8e05c.jpg
nunca tire sarro de alguem q tem sotaque, essa pessoa fala uma lingua q vc nao fala, disseram pra minha tia qdo criança. Können Sie das verstehen [vier das butter, if u can understand this joke you KNOW portuguese as I know your language.] :invasion:
The 2nd boxed set - as well as Preservers and Defilers - which were written after both products mentionned above, changed that to "no specialist wizards exist on Athas".
3E Dark Sun (see DS3) has changed that back to allow for specialist wizards. You won't see the word "specialist" mentionned in DS3 however, all you'll see is a mention, under the Wizard entry, that says:
Game Rule Information
As described in the Players Handbook, with the following changes.
Specialist wizards are not mentionned in the changes, so they exist. Besides, I think there could be a few specialists here and there in athas.org's products, although I sincerly never paid much attention to it.
For the ranks and XP cost, here's what I came up with:
Thanks Meth, I applied the numbers!
Since I based myself on the amount of point in the Animation Reserve you posted, I'd say keep that amount and start from here since there is a precedent to that kind of amount (ie LoM's fleshwarper).
For the ranks and XP cost, here's what I came up with:
Hardened Body: Ranks: 4; XP Cost: 25 Xp.
Nimble Body: Ranks: 4; XP Cost: 50 Xp.
Toughened Body: Ranks: 7; XP Cost: 75 Xp.
Retributive Death: Ranks: 7; XP Cost: 100 Xp.
Swarm Body: Ranks: 7; XP Cost: 150 Xp.
Battleborn: Ranks: 10; XP Cost: 250 Xp.
Undead Lieutenant: Ranks: 10; XP Cost: 500 Xp
So, for free (that is, using the Animation Reserve's points)a low-level RA could only use the less powerful Shape Undead abilities multiple times, or if he has enought ranks in Religion, just one or a couple of time the more powerful abilities.
Good work with the ranks/XP cost, I like!
There is at least one specialist in Veiled Alliance that I remember, and halflings could be illusionists in the 1st boxed set.
The 2nd boxed set - as well as Preservers and Defilers - which were written after both products mentionned above, changed that to "no specialist wizards exist on Athas".
3E Dark Sun (see DS3) has changed that back to allow for specialist wizards. You won't see the word "specialist" mentionned in DS3 however, all you'll see is a mention, under the Wizard entry, that says:
Specialist wizards are not mentionned in the changes, so they exist. Besides, I think there could be a few specialists here and there in athas.org's products, although I sincerly never paid much attention to it.
Yeah, but I for one still ban specialists. One of the rare cases that I like a DS2 product's ideas better than DS1.
Yeah, but I for one still ban specialists. One of the rare cases that I like a DS2 product's ideas better than DS1.
I don't see much point in specializing on Athas in anything other than Illusion, Necromancy, or Divination.
I don't see much point in specializing on Athas in anything other than Illusion, Necromancy, or Divination.
You forgot Invocation! Who doesn't like extra power to blow the living crap outta anything in your way?
I am currently writing a PrC called Arcane Specialist- be on the look out b/c it will make you want to replace the PHB specialist! :D
Sweet!
I don't see much point in specializing on Athas in anything other than Illusion, Necromancy, or Divination.
Illusion for all those preserver halfling chieftains, necromancy for those evil defilers or nercromants from the Dead Lands, and divination as a peaceful and clean use of magic for goodie preservers such as avangions and wanabe avangions, like Korgunard or Alliance Chapter leaders.
Specialization in Evocation is too much IMO and goes a bit against fluff. Explenation: evocations are mostly destructive in nature, so I don't see a wizard specializing in that since a wizard would need all the spells he can get to protect himself from discovery and lynchings, get himself out of hard situations, predict future bad events concerning him, etc., all things that a normal wizard can do, yes, but a wizard specialized in destruction IMO is not one that would last long on Athas. Yes, he would blast the crap out of others a lot, but eventually would lack a critical spell from a prohibited school and kaboum.
Halfling chieftains need only protect their tribe or village using illusions, royal necromancers and Dead Lands necromants care only about undead and have a support structure that paliates their lack in certain schools, Alliance leaders need divination a lot to prevent detection and spy on defiler and royal activites and have a support structure as well, and wanabe avangions have versatile psionics, so its all good for those schools.
Thanks Meth, I applied the numbers!
No prob. :D
Hey Penn, you forgot to apply the rank/xp cost numbers to the main post. One thing on that however - it is my opinion that Toughened Body and Nimble Body be switched, as Nimble Body seems to be the better of the two.
Personnaly, I think that the toughened body is more powerful with its increases in hit points and bonus to damage and attack rolls versus the init bonus and the speed increase in an encounter with the undead.
• Nimble Body: Each undead you animate or create with any necromancy spell gains a +4 bonus on initiative checks and a 10-foot increase to its base land speed.
• Toughened Body: Each undead you animate or create with any necromancy spell gains a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength and +2 hit points per Hit Dice.
Illusion for all those preserver halfling chieftains, necromancy for those evil defilers or nercromants from the Dead Lands, and divination as a peaceful and clean use of magic for goodie preservers such as avangions and wanabe avangions, like Korgunard or Alliance Chapter leaders.
Agreed on all points. I was just being facetcious with the Evocation comment
(and forgeting what edition of D&D we're talking about ).• Hardened Body: Each undead you animate or create with any necromancy spell gains a +2 natural armor bonus to Armor Class.
Ranks: 4; XP Cost: 25.
• Nimble Body: Each undead you animate or create with any necromancy spell gains a +4 bonus on initiative checks and a 10-foot increase to its base land speed.
Ranks: 4; XP Cost: 50.
• Toughened Body: Each undead you animate or create with any necromancy spell gains a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength and +2 hit points per Hit Dice.
Ranks: 7; XP Cost: 75.
• Retributive Death: Each undead you animate or create with any necromancy spell releases a burst of grayish vapors upon its destruction, dealing 1d4 points of negative energy damage per Hit Dice of the undead to every creature within a 10-foot spread (Reflex DC 15 half).
Ranks: 7; XP Cost: 100.
• Swarm Body: Undead vermin that you animate break down into one or more bugdead swarm of your choice (see Appendix 2 of Terrors of the Dead Lands). The total Hit Dice of the undead swarm or swarms has to be equal to or less than the HD of the undead vermin they are composed of. For example, a 12 HD undead rhinoceros beetle can break down into one 8 HD undead athasian locust swarm and one 4 HD undead mini-kank swarm, or any combination of bugdead swarms whose total Hit Dice is equal to or less than 12 HD.
Ranks: 7; XP Cost: 150.
• Battleborn: Each undead you animate or create with any necromancy spell gains a spark of intelligence and skill. Undead gain a bonus feat of the royal animator’s choice or access to a skill. Undead with Int ― can only gain a feat with combat applications, such as Power Attack or Improved Initiative. Creatures with an Intelligence score can gain any skill or general feat, including a skill-related feat such as Stealthy, or a feat from a specialized type like metamagic or divine. The undead must meet the prerequisites for the feat. Skill points gained equal (4 + Int Modifier, mimimun 1) per HD, with quadruple skill points for the first HD.
Ranks: 10; XP Cost: 250.
• Undead Lieutenant: An intelligent undead with this ability gains command undead as a spell-like ability, usable 3 times per day. Its caster level equals the undead’s HD.
Ranks: 10; XP Cost: 500.
In answer to your previous post concerning the use of even ranks, I think its consistent that we go that way too. So I'd change the ranks for Toughened Body to 6; Retributive Death and Swarm Body to 8; and finally Undead Lieutenant to 12.
• Pestilent Body: Each undead you animate or create with any necromancy spell carries the filth fever disease that is transmissible upon physical contact with the undead or with a melee touch attack.
Ranks: 8; XP Cost: 125.
Do with it what you will, I find the shape undead and the animator secret abilities very useful to integrate new variant on undead. ;)
I'm unsure of the wording for the following (it might be that "physical contact" already covers natural or melee touch attacks):
• Pestilent Body: Each undead you animate or create with any necromancy spell carries the filth fever disease (see Glossary in the Dungeon Master’s Guide), transmissible upon physical contact with the undead or through a natural or melee touch attack.
Ranks: 8; XP Cost: 125.
Do with it what you will, I find the shape undead and the animator secret abilities very useful to integrate new variant on undead. ;)
If you can come up with 2 other "variant undead" for the Shape Undead ability, from those we wanted to make (remember ;)), both the Shape Undead and Animator Secret abilities will have 10 options each.
(...)I'm unsure of the wording for the following (it might be that "physical contact" already covers natural or melee touch attacks):
(...)
If you can come up with 2 other "variant undead" for the Shape Undead ability, from those we wanted to make (remember ;)), both the Shape Undead and Animator Secret abilities will have 10 options each.
I was asking myself if physical contact included touch attack. From the energy drain in the SRD:
Most energy drain attacks require a successful melee attack roll—mere physical contact is not enough.
It seems in our case that physical contact could be used.
I found one of the 2 variant undead, and I'm searching for the other one. Please give me hints of its name at least as it seems I can't find it, even in our past docs. So here's the one I got:
• Dissolving Dead: Each undead you animate or create with any necromancy spell has its natural attacks dissolves an opponent’s clothing and armor, making those items useless in 1 round unless the wearer succeeds a Reflex save (DC 14). The dissolving dead have immunity to acid.
Ranks: 10; XP Cost: 150.
Do you think this ability should increase the CR of the undead? If so it could be included as a last sentence. (ie The undead has its CR increased by +1)
Also, shoudn't the XP cost be directly linked to the number of HD created by the necromancy spell, so that 10HD of skeleton come at a higher price than creating 20 HD of skeletons, and not to the spell cast?
• Dissolving Dead: Each undead you animate or create with any necromancy spell has its natural attacks dissolves an opponent’s clothing and armor, making those items useless in 1 round unless the wearer succeeds a Reflex save (DC 14). The dissolving dead have immunity to acid.
Ranks: 10; XP Cost: 150.
• Dissolving Dead: Each undead you animate or create with any necromancy spell has its natural attacks dissolve an opponent’s clothing and armor, making those items useless in 1 round unless the wearer succeeds a Reflex save (DC 14). The undead have immunity to acid.
Ranks: 10; XP Cost: 150.
Do you think this ability should increase the CR of the undead?
Probably should be included, but in that case we'd need Kamelion's help, as he worked on TotDL's undead special abilities.
Also, shoudn't the XP cost be directly linked to the number of HD created by the necromancy spell, so that 10HD of skeleton come at a higher price than creating 20 HD of skeletons, and not to the spell cast?
Not really. First, it would get really costly too fast. The higher you'd get in levels would increase the # of HD of undead you could create, making sure that it would become prohibitive to use any of those abilities on more than a number of HD, even though the wizard is able to create by that time, say, 4 times that amount of HD.
Second, many spells have fixed costs in XP but can affect more than one target.
Do you have any ideas about the other type of undead variant you were talking about?
Kamelion, can you check about applying CR adjustments to the Animator's undead shape abilities and those few animator secrets too (like Unlife Mastery for example)?
Anyways, I think the last one you posted and any other we make/made might be too powerful. There's a difference between inflicting 1d6 points of acid damage and running a chance to destroy armor and clothing.
I propose we make it acid damage; TotDL has other types of mindless undead that inflict other types of energy damage, think lightning zombie.
I found this very interesting tidbit on Dicefreaks:
Here will be the quote when the dicefreaks server problem is resolved
There's an ability that you can give to an undead with the Risen template. The undead body holds a swarm of vermin in it, scorpions and stuff, which come out to attack anyone the undead grapples. If the undead dies the swarm comes out to.
It looked fun and innovative. I'd like to use that.
Since Dicefreaks seems to be more permanently out of comission, I'll write down what I remember.
There's an ability that you can give to an undead with the Risen template. The undead body holds a swarm of vermin in it, scorpions and stuff, which come out to attack anyone the undead grapples. If the undead dies the swarm comes out to.
It looked fun and innovative. I'd like to use that.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this the point of Swarm Body? Or, at the very least, it seems that these effects might just be combined.
Specialization in Evocation is too much IMO and goes a bit against fluff. Explenation: evocations are mostly destructive in nature, so I don't see a wizard specializing in that since a wizard would need all the spells he can get to protect himself from discovery and lynchings, get himself out of hard situations, predict future bad events concerning him, etc.,
Not every wizard everywhere has to fear discovery. The preservers in New Kurn, tribal wizards in the wastes.... Consider an elven raiding tribe. They're nomadic, and many of them don't give a kank's ass that some patch of land they left behind 50 miles ago can't be farmed anymore ... and Evokers pack one hell of a punch when it comes time to "negotiate" with a caravan ...
but eventually would lack a critical spell from a prohibited school and kaboum
That's the core tradeoff of specialization, and it doesn't matter what campaign world, or what specialization you've got -- you're gonna find that you miss something ....
How about an epic prgression? Is it required to even mention it?
I could say you get an Animator Secret every two level and that your Animation Reserve augments by +X every level.
EDIT: How about this?
Epic Royal Animator
The epic royal animator continues to learn new secrets and increase his pool of availlable power.
Hit Dice: d4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.
Animation Reserve (Ex): An epic royal animator receives a pool of points at each level, of an amount equal to that of his previous level plus 1,000 (6,000 at 11th, 7,000 at 12th, and so on).
Animator Secret: Every two levels after the 10th (12th, 14th, 16th, and so on), the epic royal animator can select one additional Secret.
Do you remember having done one? I have 2 more, but they are just ideas that were not finishied. Do you think its one of them: I have the Gray Death and the Ravenous in the works.
I just found this:
Afflicted Zombie
Special Attacks: Zombification (Su): Supernatural disease—bite, Fortitude DC 16, incubation period instantaneous; damage 1d6 Con and 1d6 Int.
Unlike for normal diseases, victims of zombification cannot fight off the infection by making an immediate Fortitude saving throw while first being infected or by later succeeding at two saving throws in a row. Also, zombification continues until the victim reaches Constitution 0 (and dies) or is cured as described below.
Zombification is a powerful curse, not a natural disease. A character attempting to cast any conjuration (healing) spell on a creature afflicted with zombification must succeed on a DC 20 caster level check, or the spell has no effect on the afflicted character.
To eliminate zombification, the curse must first be broken with break enchantment or remove curse (requiring a DC 20 caster level check for either spell), after which a caster level check is no longer necessary to cast healing spells on the victim, and the zombification can be magically cured as any normal disease.
An afflicted creature that dies of zombification or from any other cause while infected rises as an afflicted zombie within 1d4 minutes of death.
CR Adjustment: +?.
Do you plan on adding it to the Royal Animator's shape undead?That's the one Pennarin.
Kamelion told me undead with the spawn ability is limited to intelligent undead, and even then they only create namech.
The krag is an exception to this "rule", so is the dune runner, the fallen, and a couple of other intelligent undeads.
If I were to allow an intelligent undead created through a necromancy spell, and affected by the Shape Undead ability, to gain the spawn ability, I would have to say that dead opponents turn into namech.
Perhaps even limit it to 1 namech per day, or week.
Have you thought of redoing the dissolving ability? Maybe we could have 1d6 additional damage, steming from either acid or some other, maybe more exotic source. Negative energy?
How 'bout spectral energy from the Gray (treated as ectoplasm as in the XPH -ie, 1d4 dmg but ignores DR).
Also, that special attack (zombiefication) seems a touch different than spawn undead. So, I don't see a problem with applying to unintelligent undead. Plus if it seems to powerful, just lower the damage and increase the onset time (or the time lapse over which the curse spreads - so as to make it take a couple of hours instead of a few minutes). I think this ability definately has a place in dark sun, so just keep tweaking in untill it fits.
• Undead Lieutenant: An intelligent undead with this ability gains command undead as a spell-like ability, usable 3 times per day. Its caster level equals the undead’s HD.
Ranks: 12; XP Cost: 500.
Somehow this ability sounds wrong, especially considering the severe combat-related limitations of the Command Undead spell.
I wonder if it wouldn't be better to say that the undead can take control of a number of HD of uncontrolled skeletons and zombies. Those previously uncontrolled skeletons and zombies would now be controlled on a permanent basis as if the undead had animated them himself through Animate Dead.
How about something like this ?:
• Undead Lieutenant: An intelligent undead with this ability can take control of skeletons and zombies. The undead creatures must be uncontrolled and need to be touched by the intelligent undead to fall under its control. Touching an undead creature is a move action. The intelligent undead can control only 2 HD worth of undead creatures per Hit Dice it possesses. If it exceeds this number, all the newly controlled creatures fall under its control, and any excess undead previously controlled become uncontrolled. (It chooses which creatures are released.)
Ranks: 12; XP Cost: 500.
Here is my two bits- I like the newer version of the ability, but I do not like the fact that they have to touch the creature. Personally, I would like to see it be like an emmination effect that the intelligent undead can activate,say like a 30 to 50 radius effect, that captures non-intelligent undead within the sphere of influence.
But I would also make it so that if the enslaved undead leave the area of the effect, their loyality or whatever you wold like to call it, is ended and they go back to doing what they had been before they fell under the effect. This would be in keeping with the roll of a Lieutenant whom usually will lead platoons and such into cambat.
I have a question for you Pennarin- Is this PrC finished or is it still 'under construction'? I was hoping to do a build with this class soon is why I am asking.
• Undead Lieutenant: An intelligent undead with this ability can take control of skeletons and zombies. The undead creatures must be uncontrolled and within 30 feet of the intelligent undead to fall under its control. Taking control is a standard action, and the undead decides which creature or creatures it gains control of. The intelligent undead can control only 2 HD worth of undead creatures per Hit Dice it possesses. If it exceeds this number, all the newly controlled creatures fall under its control, and any excess undead previously controlled become uncontrolled. (It chooses which creatures are released.) The undead creatures move with the intelligent undead, staying within 30 feet of it. If commanded to leave this radius they become uncontrolled.
Ranks: 12; XP Cost: 500.
Aside from this point, I'd say the PrC is finished, so go ahead.
The guy I was thinking about making is a second generation drey defiler 5/ royal necromancer 6/ leech 3 (ECL 15).
One aspect of this PrC that I was also wondering about- what if 'normal' specialists do not exist in a particular game? I use that rule and so I replace the specialist component of this PrC with Spell Focus (necromancy). But that is IMC.
What about undead creatures that are controlled- could there be some kind of opposed roll between the controller and the undead lieutenant to see who gets control of the walking bones? I think a feature like that would be much more useful if used on a battlefield where a few royal necromancers are taking a hand to keep 'fresh' troops in the battle.
Maybe I'm tired (its 1AM here) but I don't get this...
AFAIK casters can attempt to steal control of undead from other casters, so by saying the Undead Lieutenant cannot do so (i.e. for him undead need to be uncontrolled) is a way to bring down the effectiveness of the ability. After all its very similar to Control Undead, a 7th-level spell, and has a better duration (effectively continuous).
Which makes me think...I forgot this line: "Taking control is a standard action, and the undead decides which creature or creatures it gains control of. Undead remain under its control indefinitely. It can control only 2 HD worth of undead creatures per Hit Dice it possesses."
One aspect of this PrC that I was also wondering about- what if 'normal' specialists do not exist in a particular game? I use that rule and so I replace the specialist component of this PrC with Spell Focus (necromancy). But that is IMC.
Sure. Many people don't want specialists on Athas, so the switch between specialization and Spell Focus is the way to go. Note that of the many people who said they didn't like specialists on Athas, many said they were OK with it for the campaigns set in - or for NPCs dating from - the Green Age period, or if the wizards are working for/taught by sorcerer-kings. The royal animator seems to fall in that latter category, a city-bred defiler that is actually specialized in one school.
Of course I go that way whenever I want to, not just with royal defilers, but that's me :D
• Undead Lieutenant: An intelligent undead with this ability can take control of skeletons and zombies. The undead creatures must be uncontrolled and within 30 feet of the intelligent undead to fall under its control. Taking control is a standard action, and the undead decides which creature or creatures it gains control of. Undead remain under its control indefinitely. It can control only 2 HD worth of undead creatures per Hit Dice it possesses. If it exceeds this number, all the newly controlled creatures fall under its control, and any excess undead previously controlled become uncontrolled. (It chooses which creatures are released.) The undead creatures move with the intelligent undead, staying within 30 feet of it. If commanded to leave this radius they become uncontrolled.
Ranks: 12; XP Cost: 500.
• Undead General: An intelligent undead with this ability can take control of skeletons and zombies. The undead creatures must within 100 feet of the intelligent undead to fall under its control. Taking control is a standard action, and the undead decides which creature or creatures it gains control of. Undead remain under its control indefinitely. It can control 5 HD worth of undead creatures per Hit Dice it possesses. If it exceeds this number, all the newly controlled creatures fall under its control, and any excess undead previously controlled become uncontrolled. (It chooses which creatures are released.) The undead creatures move with the intelligent undead, staying within 100 feet of it. If commanded to leave this radius they become uncontrolled. Undead under the control of another creature can be controlled if the intelligent undead win an opposed Charisma check against the other creature.
Ranks: 15; XP Cost: 750.
I forgot to add...- Undead are controlled through voice (as per Control Undead)
- The number of HD of undead controlled counts towards the maximum number of HD a creature can control.
Meth, 5 HD is more than the maximum a spellcaster can have (which is 4 HD). Also, wrestling control over undead is a no-no IMO: this ability is not meant to allow an intelligent undead to steal enemy troops but rather to increase the total amount of controlled HD of undead your army can have. As for the range...I could make it 50 feet.
• Undead Lieutenant: An intelligent undead with this ability can take control of skeletons and zombies. The undead creatures must be uncontrolled and within 30 feet of the intelligent undead to fall under its control. Taking control is a standard action, and the intelligent undead decides which creature or creatures it gains control of. Undead remain under its control indefinitely. It commands them by voice and they understand it, no matter what language it speaks. Even if vocal communication is impossible the controlled creatures do not attack the intelligent undead. It can control only 2 HD worth of undead creatures per Hit Dice it possesses. If it exceeds this number, all the newly controlled creatures fall under its control, and any excess undead previously controlled become uncontrolled. (It chooses which creatures are released.) The creatures move with the intelligent undead, staying within 30 feet of it. If commanded to leave this radius they become uncontrolled. These undead creatures count towards the maximum number of HD worth of undead creatures the intelligent undead can control per caster level, if it has levels in a spellcasting class.
Ranks: 12; XP Cost: 500.