I'd like to make a spell called enlarge dragon, that allows an athasian dragon to increase his size.
What spell level do you think it should be, and what would be its characteristics vs enlarge person?
That or you could just make a spell called Enlarge Monster and make it like 3rd or 4th level- using the same information from the enlarge person spell.
I'd say 2nd level. You could even justify it being a 1st level spell if you limited it to just "enlarge dragon".
I would revise my level suggestion and meet you in the middle- how about third level. Enlarge Person, Mass is a 4th level spell so making an Enlage Monster should fall on that level or at least one below IMO.
The only reason I even suggested making it higher is due to the sick amount of power and everything that a dragon would get by using an enlage spell on them selves, but ya I agree that maybe I was to high.
I would revise my level suggestion and meet you in the middle- how about third level. Enlarge Person, Mass is a 4th level spell so making an Enlage Monster should fall on that level or at least one below IMO.
I don't know. A dragon can use the power expansion with no problem and thats a 1st level power. Plus, a dragon can just cast the 4th level spell polymorph to greater effect. 3rd seems pretty steep in comparison.
As for the expansion power, its a psychic warrior only power, so to use it a dragon needs to be a psychic warrior, or use bend reality (and have 15 manifester levels) which costs 300 XP, or take the Expanded Knowledge (expansion) feat.
Enlarge monster might be a more intelligent option than making a enlarge dragon spell... .
The Draconomicon has a few dragon only spells.
As for the expansion power, its a psychic warrior only power, so to use it a dragon needs to be a psychic warrior, or use bend reality (and have 15 manifester levels) which costs 300 XP, or take the Expanded Knowledge (expansion) feat.
Or they can just research the power to add it to their powers list. Either way, neither are that steep a cost for a epic level character.
I don't know. A dragon can use the power expansion with no problem and thats a 1st level power. Plus, a dragon can just cast the 4th level spell polymorph to greater effect. 3rd seems pretty steep in comparison.
From SRD
Polymorph
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Willing living creature touched
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
This spell functions like alter self, except that you change the willing subject into another form of living creature. The new form may be of the same type as the subject or any of the following types: aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin. The assumed form can’t have more Hit Dice than your caster level (or the subject’s HD, whichever is lower), to a maximum of 15 HD at 15th level. You can’t cause a subject to assume a form smaller than Fine, nor can you cause a subject to assume an incorporeal or gaseous form. The subject’s creature type and subtype (if any) change to match the new form.
Upon changing, the subject regains lost hit points as if it had rested for a night (though this healing does not restore temporary ability damage and provide other benefits of resting; and changing back does not heal the subject further). If slain, the subject reverts to its original form, though it remains dead.
The subject gains the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores of the new form but retains its own Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. It also gains all extraordinary special attacks possessed by the form but does not gain the extraordinary special qualities possessed by the new form or any supernatural or spell-like abilities.
Incorporeal or gaseous creatures are immune to being polymorphed, and a creature with the shapechanger subtype can revert to its natural form as a standard action.
I do not think polymorph would work, due to the two items that I underlined above.
I also thought that you could not polymorhy in to a unique creature- which IMO each dragon would qualify as.
From SRD
I do not think polymorph would work, due to the two items that I underlined above.
I also thought that you could not polymorhy in to a unique creature- which IMO each dragon would qualify as.
I meant for increasing the characters size. The dragon could turn into a giant or any other "big" creature.
300 XP, I believe, is still a ridiculous amount of XP to pay for a spell, no matter your level.
Er, the goal here is not to turn into anything, but to grow larger, so just forget polymorph self.
Geez, it was a comparison to illustrate that a 4th level spell could be used to change your size and that making the "enlarge (insert type here)" a 3rd level spell might be a little to high. It wasn't meant to be a literal alternative.
So, enlarge monster is a possibility, although DMs might hate its possible applications in...enlarging monsters.
And enlarge dragon is also a possibility, more controlled by the DM since a user will more often use it on himself.
I'd go with enlarge dragon. Any idea on the level?
I, because I can, would make the spell enlarge dragon higher level- like 4th or 5th.
If on the other hand, the enlage monster route was used, which has a wider application and more liberial useage, I would stay with my suggestion of 3rd level.
But remember that the more specific you get in a spell's application, the lower the spell level gets. For example, cleansing flame is supposed to be of a lower level than its equivalent PHB spell (same amount of damage, etc.).
You still can't make a 1st-level finger of death vs Kalthandrix, but you get my drift...
Transmutation
Level: Wiz 4
Target: One creature
This spell functions like enlarge person, except that the effect is not restricted by creature type.
Enlarge monster counters and dispels reduce animal, reduce monster, and reduce person.
Enlarge monster can be made permanent with a permanency spell (minimum caster level 12th and 2,000 XP cost).
Related spells:
Reduce monster (4th-level)
Enlarge monster, Mass (7th-level)
Reduce monster, Mass (7th-level)
So 3rd- or 4th-level then.
But remember that the more specific you get in a spell's application, the lower the spell level gets. For example, cleansing flame is supposed to be of a lower level than its equivalent PHB spell (same amount of damage, etc.).
You still can't make a 1st-level finger of death vs Kalthandrix, but you get my drift...
Hey point that finger somewhere else
I am just not a fan of the idea to make the spell so specific that it only effects an handfull of creatures, but hey, it is your spell so you can do what you want.
Now here's an idea- A spell called Dragon Size- it would be like enlarge, but makes the one effected gargantuan sized- so as big as a 9th stage dragon. So any dragon that was say stage 1 or 3 would get a huge bonus. And it could be made to affect any living creature- humans, dragons, animals, ect. I think that this would be a better idea and would be, I think, exactly the thing that you are looking for. I would defiantly make a spell like this a 4th or 5th level and have a relatively short duration (rounds or minutes per level at the most).
Or they can just research the power to add it to their powers list. Either way, neither are that steep a cost for a epic level character.
I just checked, and page 64 of the XPH does not allow a manifester to research a power from another power list than your own. There is even another option I didn't know about - manifesting a power from a willing manifester's list of know powers, after making mental contact - but even that fails if the power is not on your own list.
You might make 2 such spells: giant size (works like enlarge person except...), and dragon size (works like enlarge monster except...).
Thinking on it, I'm not sure "dragon" size is the right name to go: the Dragon is not that big, and there's far bigger critters out there, whose size is more well know, like the korinth or hatori. Probably others I'm forgetting now.
You're welcome to explore that direction Kal.