I dont know about you, but I figured it would be better to have a separate thread for that goal. If the RL crowd should pick up the pace or if we start being to lazy we might have to go back to that thread though. What do you think, can we make it? :D
Håvard
But we need a target date.
How about
this Christmas? Regards,
Gary
--Ray.
How many posts away are they?
--Ray.
1768 ...and counting ;)
Regards,
Gary
How about this Christmas?
That would make for almost a 20-post gain per day. That's pretty much what we had to do for ravenloft if I'm not mistaken.
If the RL crowd should pick up the pace or if we start being to lazy we might have to go back to that thread though.
HERESY! HERESY, I SAY!!! But I still forgive you :D .
GW
That would make for almost a 20-post gain per day. That's pretty much what we had to do for ravenloft if I'm not mistaken.
Sounds good! Also, isn't summer usually a low point for posting? This should be easy!
HERESY! HERESY, I SAY!!! But I still forgive you :D .
Hehe, phew. Just worried that we'll get too cocky now that we've beaten the Fans of the Mist...
Håvard
That would make for almost a 20-post gain per day. That's pretty much what we had to do for ravenloft if I'm not mistaken.
The earliest gap I've got for Planescape is from the 9th of April. The gap itself being 4975. So in about five and a half months we've closed the gap by about 3220 leaving 'just' 1750-ish to go.
Regards,
Gary
I am tempted to say we can do it by Christmas (Dec 25th) since I was right about RL by the end of Summer. ;) I still have tons of work to do on my Mystic works and I might even come up with something else that would keep me real busy after that is done.
We've come a long way baby!
So, there's one thing I never got with Planescape, isn't it tied into FR and Greyhawk settings? I mean, in 3E isn't it just the Manual of the Planes/Planar Handbook?
I remember in the other thread how we were talking about Ravenloft being tied into Dragonlance.
What other settings is Mystara tied into? (That is, published official campaign settings.)
So, there's one thing I never got with Planescape, isn't it tied into FR and Greyhawk settings? I mean, in 3E isn't it just the Manual of the Planes/Planar Handbook?
The Planescape setting, as I understand, pretty much encompasses all of the various cosmologies/settings, due to its taking place in, well, the Planes. The major outpost of the setting, the city of Sigil, is in the Outlands, and has doors/portals that connect to every conceivable place. The expansions for the setting were based on the (then) only D&D cosmology- the one that has essentially become known as "the Great Wheel."
With the publication of 3rd Edition, specifically, the revised Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, the nature of Planescape changed quite a bit. The FR cosmology got a tweaking that made it somewhat different from the Great Wheel, and thus its linkage with "Planescape" is now somewhat unknown. This is further complicated by the fact that there have been several explicit references to Sigil and the locales of the Planescape setting in various FR (pre 3E) products.
Some workarounds have been proposed, notably the suggestion of the Plane of Shadow as a transitive plane that connects different cosmologies.
Anyway, in short, Planescape wasn't so much a setting in the sense of it being a separate world/locale as it was an expansion of the planes in a depth that had not previously been done (outside of the 1st Edition Manual of the Planes, anyway).
What other settings is Mystara tied into? (That is, published official campaign settings.)
The Darklord Meredoth, from Ravenloft, was tied to Mystara in the 2nd Edition hardcover campaign book Domains of Dread (something like the 3rd revision of that setting, IIRC). He was noted to have been an Alphatian wizard living in Norwold before being sucked into the mists.
I think there was mention of the Mystaran Crystal Sphere in one of the many Spelljammer accessories, but I don't recall for certain. I believe there was also a mention of Mystara in the Chronomancy supplement that came out for 2nd Edition way back in the day as well.
Blackmoor, of course (the original campaign).
You might be able to count Greyhawk, in the sense that the LJN action figure Warduke was recently made into a servitor of one of the Horned Society lords of Oerth, and he has appeared in a Mystara module (XL-1: Quest for the Heartstone) and accessory (AC1: Shady Dragon Inn), and was originally (as I understand it) supposed to be tied into Gaz4: Kingdom of Ierendi (which still makes mention of a couple of his LJN action figure cohorts, and a mockup cover featured him on the front).
I remember someone mentioning the Darklord Meredoth in the other thread, but I don't really think that consitutes a tie-in, more just a reference, if you know what I mean.
For instance, I think Ravenloft could be said to be tied into Dragonlance because of Soth, who was a character in Dragonlance and later appeared in Ravenloft (with an explanation how).
Whereas Meredoth never did appear in Mystara, afaik.
Blackmoor, that's a good one. I always forget Blackmoor.
Btw, does what you said mean the Manual of the Planes/Planar Handbook is no longer designed to be used with the FR campaign setting?
I remember someone mentioning the Darklord Meredoth in the other thread, but I don't really think that consitutes a tie-in, more just a reference, if you know what I mean.
Gotcha, though I think I'll take it, since there (sadly) isn't too much else out there.
One other one I just remembered, there is a Dubricus d'Ambreville in the module "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands", which is designed to be set in Greyhawk (though it's still fairly generic). He is described as belonging to an eccentric family of wizards.
Of course, as far as Ravenloft goes, the module X2: Castle Amber has been credited by the designers of I6: Ravenloft (at least Tracy Hickman, that I've seen) as being the inspiration for the Land of Mists. So perhaps the d'Ambrevilles were really the first of the Demiplane of Darkness' victims?
Btw, does what you said mean the Manual of the Planes/Planar Handbook is no longer designed to be used with the FR campaign setting?
Well, the most recent MoP is a 3rd Edition product, and it was designed to be more or less of a design guide to setting up your own cosmologies. It is still very usable with the FRCS- the FR planes still function in the same ways as described in the MotP (Astral, Ethereal, etc.) Some of the FRCS planes even have the same names as some of the planes in the Great Wheel- and presumably function in the same manner, but their layout is different, and their connections are different. There are some new planes in FRCS, and some missing from the Great Wheel IIRC. Both the new MotP and the Planar Handbook are "generic" enough that they can easily be used with the FRCS, but again, some of the specifics might be different.
The rearrangement of the FR planes really only affected Planescape players (and possibly Spelljammer players) though.
What other settings is Mystara tied into? (That is, published official campaign settings.)
Aside from what has been said, there was also a character in a Planescape supplement who was a Shadowelf. If anyone has that supplement, I am interested in all relevant information about the character. He has probably made it back to Mystara now along with Meredoth, as Soth made it back to Krynn...
***
I'm glad Cthulhudrew mentioned Blackmoor, which also brings in a weak link to The Wilderlands, which I plan to explore in the future.
***
Another Setting that could be mentioned is Freeport, which not only has a history that fits perfect with Mystara, but also has a character named Countess Amberville, and I also believe a Northwoman said to be the daughter of King Ragnar (Sodergfjord anyone?) that fits well with Mystara. There could be other references aswell, that I havent noticed yet.
Håvard
What other settings is Mystara tied into? (That is, published official campaign settings.)
Thunder Rift.
Regards,
Gary
I've been toying with some ideas for a one-off D&D game at Xmas, and I started thinking about undersea settings (having read another thread here). Anyone remember what books had undersea setting material in? Iirc there was some in at least one of the Gazetteers.
I quite like the idea, especially since I plan to use Boxset D&D rules.
Also, X7 War rafts of Kron deals with the same area - but in less detail as its a 32 page adventure IIRC
With the publication of 3rd Edition, specifically, the revised Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, the nature of Planescape changed quite a bit. The FR cosmology got a tweaking that made it somewhat different from the Great Wheel, and thus its linkage with "Planescape" is now somewhat unknown. This is further complicated by the fact that there have been several explicit references to Sigil and the locales of the Planescape setting in various FR (pre 3E) products.
There are 3E references too; the 3E Manual of the Planes details Sigil in a state where the Lady of Pain has kicked _all_ of the factions out after a brief "faction war".
Of course, as far as Ravenloft goes, the module X2: Castle Amber has been credited by the designers of I6: Ravenloft (at least Tracy Hickman, that I've seen) as being the inspiration for the Land of Mists. So perhaps the d'Ambrevilles were really the first of the Demiplane of Darkness' victims?
I've always believed that Arik (and other imprisoned Immortals) was the first victim of the Mists.
Not one of the Gazateers - but one of the spin off 'Creature Crucibles' - PC 3 - The Sea Peoples.
Also, X7 War rafts of Kron deals with the same area - but in less detail as its a 32 page adventure IIRC
Wasn't there some stuff in Ierendi or Minrothad? Or, wait, wasn't it Dawn of the Emperors?
I'm sure there was some stuff in a Gazetteer, not just that Creature Crucible.
Aside from what has been said, there was also a character in a Planescape supplement who was a Shadowelf. If anyone has that supplement, I am interested in all relevant information about the character.
I'd be interested, too. I don't think I've heard of this before.
Another Setting that could be mentioned is Freeport, which not only has a history that fits perfect with Mystara, but also has a character named Countess Amberville, and I also believe a Northwoman said to be the daughter of King Ragnar (Sodergfjord anyone?) that fits well with Mystara. There could be other references aswell, that I havent noticed yet.
Which character was this? I don't recall seeing this in the Freeport sourcebook, but maybe she's in one of the modules?
Which character was this? I don't recall seeing this in the Freeport sourcebook, but maybe she's in one of the modules?
IIRC she was from Denizens of Freeport or Tales. Most likely Denizens because that one was mostly about characters from Freeport. I'll see if I can dig it out and find out who that was. I was definately convinced that she came from Mystara.
All the FP supplements are highly recommended BTW, even a seemingly uninteresting one like Denizens was actually filled with usefull stuff and adventure hooks.
And yeah, still interested in that Planescape Shadowelf. Think I will go ask over at the Planescape forum, even though that will go work against the cause. ;)
Håvard
When an illithid divinity is killed (yes, I wrote "killed") some uncontrolled thoughts from previous mortal victims reach the PC. One of these reads something like "The von Drachenfels family dates her descendance from Blackmoor".
This in game means that somewhere in the multiverse a Mystaran (probably a Glantrian?) was caught by a mind flayer and eaten, then the information was absorbed form the god. Don't ask me how this was possible, maybe it is the same mind flayer from "Mark of Amber".
Other possibility (meta-game explanation): the author of "Dead Gods" and "Glantri: Kingdom of Magic" (AD&D "translation" of GAZ3), Monte Cook, is the same person...
Think I will go ask over at the Planescape forum, even though that will go work against the cause. ;)
Naughty Håvard!!! - just for that I want 100 posts -
I must not post on the Planescape forum.
I must not post on the Planescape forum.
I must not post on the Planescape forum.... :D
Regards,
Gary
Naughty Håvard!!! - just for that I want 100 posts -
I must not post on the Planescape forum.
I must not post on the Planescape forum.
I must not post on the Planescape forum.... :D
Regards,
Gary
*hides in the corner* :embarrass
Håvard ;)
Just to add 0.02 $: there is a very small reference (and, I think, rather cryptic for Planescape players) to Mystara in the adventure Dead Gods.
When an illithid divinity is killed (yes, I wrote "killed") some uncontrolled thoughts from previous mortal victims reach the PC. One of these reads something like "The von Drachenfels family dates her descendance from Blackmoor".
This in game means that somewhere in the multiverse a Mystaran (probably a Glantrian?) was caught by a mind flayer and eaten, then the information was absorbed form the god. Don't ask me how this was possible, maybe it is the same mind flayer from "Mark of Amber".
Interesting. But you said the Ilithid in question was a God? The one in MoA certainly was not. He was actually supposed to be a Brain Collector, but that is another story...
Other possibility (meta-game explanation): the author of "Dead Gods" and "Glantri: Kingdom of Magic" (AD&D "translation" of GAZ3), Monte Cook, is the same person...
*lol*
Oh and about that Shadowelf and my sinful posting on other forums:
From the Planescape Forum:
You're referring to Farrow. He's detailed in the Uncaged: Faces of Sigil supplement.
Håvard
Planescape 1684 (-84)
Greyhawk 7468 :P
It's actually very interesting the way various discussions emerge from these threads. I love it! It's kind of like our own Mystaran town square where people come to meet others and 'chat about the weather'. Perhaps you could call it a community builder!
Oh and about that Shadowelf and my sinful posting on other forums:
From the Planescape Forum:
Here's hoping that was a 1-line reply, and didn't spark a thread!
Interesting. But you said the Ilithid in question was a God? The one in MoA certainly was not. He was actually supposed to be a Brain Collector, but that is another story...
Maanzecorian was the illithid god of knowledge. He gains knowledge from a variety of sources - libraries, book club meetings, correspondance - brain-eating is actually a last resort for him, since although he has no moral compunction he treasures intelligence and knowledge and wishes to see it preserved, at least until he can get it all.
As a god, Maanzecorian is aware of the knowledge gained by all his worshippers. If any Maanzecorian-revering mind flayer knew something about the d'Ambervilles, Maanzecorian would have, too. Or Maanzecorian may have simply gone to Rad's home plane (or sent an avatar to Glantri's School of Magic, or whatever), and found it out for himself.
This in game means that somewhere in the multiverse a Mystaran (probably a Glantrian?) was caught by a mind flayer and eaten, then the information was absorbed form the god. Don't ask me how this was possible, maybe it is the same mind flayer from "Mark of Amber".
IIRC, there was an old Polyhedron article about Mystara- either #110 or #120- where a Mind Flayer was relating its visit to Mystara or something. It could be that Mind Flayer (or perhaps all three are the same one?)
Planescape: Farrow, a shadow elf spy, resides in Sigil, where he spies on every one of the factions there (he's described as having 15 personalities, one for each faction). What his current status is, after the Faction War, is unknown (and exactly what his purpose in spying is, is unknown, unless someone else has Uncaged. Perhaps it has something to do with Rafiel, who was a known space traveler?)
Ravenloft: Meredoth, an Alphatian wizard, is currently trapped in the Demiplane of Dread, where he is the Dark Lord of the Nocturnal Sea.
Also, the Land of Grey Mists where the d'Ambrevilles were entrapped for nearly a century may or may not be Ravenloft.
Spelljammer: Not yet confirmed, but I believe a mention was made of Mystara's Crystal Sphere in one of the Spelljammer accessories.
Greyhawk: The module Return to the Keep on the Borderlands has a suggested setting of the Yeomanry, and features as NPCs one Dubricus d'Ambreville (of a family of eccentric wizards), as well as Third, a warrior maiden of Maruda (Madarua) from Cynidicea, and two characters who are assassins from "distant Cathos City"- a location from module M2: Maze of the Riddling Minotaur.
Also, Warduke, a villainous foe who has combatted the likes of Strongheart the Paladin and Figgen the halfling, is a former henchman to the Horned Society. Figgen is known to maintain (according to Gaz4) a residence in Ierendi.
Freeport: Countess d'Ambreville owns an upscale brothel in the city of Freeport, where she also plies her trade as an assassin. A woman in the city is also the daughter of King Ragnar, who may or may not be our own Soderfjordian monarch.
Blackmoor: Not much need be said here, as the Blackmoor/Mystara connection is pretty explicit. IIRC, though, the Beagle is also the name of a starship that appeared in another product from TSR/WotC- perhaps Tales of the Comet? Not sure, but I think the Beagle has turned up as a name somewhere else (though IIRC it was stated by the designers not to be the same Beagle).
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20modern/oa/20040921a
AIR the author didn't know about the Mystaran Beagle and regretted it as they would have like to tie it in somehow had they known. I don't remember where I read this though.....probably here.
--Ray.
AIR the author didn't know about the Mystaran Beagle and regretted it as they would have like to tie it in somehow had they known. I don't remember where I read this though.....probably here.
I think you're right- that sounds like it's the adventure I was thinking of, and Mike McArtor lurks around our Mystara boards (and is a fan of the setting) so it was probably him. I recall the same discussion, vaguely.
So, to recap Mystara's otherworldly connections:
Planescape: Farrow, a shadow elf spy, resides in Sigil, where he spies on every one of the factions there (he's described as having 15 personalities, one for each faction). What his current status is, after the Faction War, is unknown (and exactly what his purpose in spying is, is unknown, unless someone else has Uncaged. Perhaps it has something to do with Rafiel, who was a known space traveler?)
Interesting. I would like to see him come home to Mystara. The Rafiel connection is a good suggestion. In the Mystaros Timeline, Rafiel was said to be logged onto the InterZone, Mystara's Internet which also had interplanar connections. In any case, perhaps Farrow was working for the Radiant Shaman inspired by Rafiel to find out more about the planes? And perhaps after the establishment of Aengmoor, he has been called back since the Shadowelves now have use for their most excellent spy back home?
Ravenloft: Meredoth, an Alphatian wizard, is currently trapped in the Demiplane of Dread, where he is the Dark Lord of the Nocturnal Sea.
Also, the Land of Grey Mists where the d'Ambrevilles were entrapped for nearly a century may or may not be Ravenloft.
Meredoth is also someone I think should be brought back, if he hasn't already been, to one of those Islands outside the coast of Norwold which he was said to be from. If there is a connection between his realm and the Land of Grey Mist, it would be interesting to make this a link between Meredoth and D'Ambreville. It could even work if there were different realms, but each side thinking it was the same...
Spelljammer: Not yet confirmed, but I believe a mention was made of Mystara's Crystal Sphere in one of the Spelljammer accessories.
Interesting. I would almost be surprised if there wasn't some mention, but I can't say I ever heard of any.
Greyhawk: The module Return to the Keep on the Borderlands has a suggested setting of the Yeomanry, and features as NPCs one Dubricus d'Ambreville (of a family of eccentric wizards), as well as Third, a warrior maiden of Maruda (Madarua) from Cynidicea, and two characters who are assassins from "distant Cathos City"- a location from module M2: Maze of the Riddling Minotaur.
Also, Warduke, a villainous foe who has combatted the likes of Strongheart the Paladin and Figgen the halfling, is a former henchman to the Horned Society. Figgen is known to maintain (according to Gaz4) a residence in Ierendi.
Is Warduke mentioned in Return to the Keep? I would love to see a rewrite of Return especially for Mystara bringing in these characters who were introduced in the Return version of the module, in spite of it being created for Greyhawk.
Freeport: Countess d'Ambreville owns an upscale brothel in the city of Freeport, where she also plies her trade as an assassin. A woman in the city is also the daughter of King Ragnar, who may or may not be our own Soderfjordian monarch.
I checked this last night. Her name is Alfhild and she is actually the fiance of King Ragnar, but she ran away from him and raids the seas around Freeport. One of the adventure hooks presented for her in Denizens of Freeport is that Ragnar himself arrives in town, causing trouble and demanding to get her back.
Blackmoor: Not much need be said here, as the Blackmoor/Mystara connection is pretty explicit. IIRC, though, the Beagle is also the name of a starship that appeared in another product from TSR/WotC- perhaps Tales of the Comet? Not sure, but I think the Beagle has turned up as a name somewhere else (though IIRC it was stated by the designers not to be the same Beagle).
As Ray said, you are thinking about Foul Weather, a D20 Modern (Space) adventure about a space ship in trouble. It was written by Mike McArthur, but he stated on this forum that he hadn't thought of the connection before we pointed it out to him. OTOH, he is a Mystara fan, so it might have been what subconciously gave him the idea. In any case it works to strengthen the myth of the space ship known as the Beagle, and implicates that the space ship had other owners before it was taken over by Federation Captain Bork Riesling.
Oh yeah, and ofcourse, there was that magical item from Book of Wonderous Magic that could summon things from different TSR worlds including something from Star Frontiers. Hmm...cant remember its name right now.
Håvard
Farrow is very definitely a Mystaran shadowelf, with pale skin, white hair, big ears, and even the purple birthmark of a shaman (though this is actually a tattoo in his case).
Farrow belonged to a group of shadowelf spies and assassins called the Eyes of the Serpent. His job was to help protect his race via any means possible. After blowing his cover in Glantri's School of Magic, Farrow was banished to the AD&D Outer Planes. That's how he ended up in Sigil, where he got a job with the City of Doors' own kingpin of crime.
This doesn't neccesarily contradict what we discussed above, though it complicates it a bit. Which is cool
Håvard
Planescape: Farrow, a shadow elf spy, resides in Sigil, where he spies on every one of the factions there (he's described as having 15 personalities, one for each faction). What his current status is, after the Faction War, is unknown (and exactly what his purpose in spying is, is unknown, unless someone else has Uncaged. Perhaps it has something to do with Rafiel, who was a known space traveler?)
He spies because he's been hired to spy by the fiend Shemeshka the Marauder. He's been banished to Sigil against his will (by the wizards of Glantri), and doesn't know how to get back, so he's not spying for Rafiel or for his people. His mind shattered when the philosophical energies of the Outer Planes empowered his 15 various disguises, making them autonomous individuals of various races. Most of his personalities don't realize they're spies at all; only one of them appears as a shadowelf. Until he pulls himself back together, he's unlikely to find his way back to Mystara.
He was, however, a spy in his former life as well, like so many shadowelves, and he did spy in the name of his people at the time.
Blackmoor: Not much need be said here, as the Blackmoor/Mystara connection is pretty explicit. IIRC, though, the Beagle is also the name of a starship that appeared in another product from TSR/WotC- perhaps Tales of the Comet? Not sure, but I think the Beagle has turned up as a name somewhere else (though IIRC it was stated by the designers not to be the same Beagle).
Blackmoor is also in Greyhawk, don't forget. The reason is that Gary Gygax and Rob Kuntz were briefly players in Dave Arneson's campaign, so their visits to Blackmoor and the City of the Gods were on Mordenkainen's and Robilar's character sheets. When Gygax developed his campaign from its original bare-bones roots of just a city and a castle, he always noted that there was, somewhere on the same continent, a "Great Kingdom" (Thonia), a Blackmoor, and a City of the Gods, and those got eventually mentioned in the Greyhawk folio and boxed set.
Even the Egg of Coot is now an official part of Greyhawk's version of Blackmoor, put there by Fred Weining in the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer.
Most of his personalities don't realize they're spies at all; only one of them appears as a shadowelf. Until he pulls himself back together, he's unlikely to find his way back to Mystara.
Interesting- especially, as I mentioned, in light of the Faction War. He'd probably be even more of a mess than before, now that most of the factions have been banished/relocated. Instead of them being in one place, he's going to be torn in all directions.
Even the Egg of Coot is now an official part of Greyhawk's version of Blackmoor, put there by Fred Weining in the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer.
I'd forgotten about that- maybe our resident Egg is actually a multiplanar/multidimensional entity, something along the lines of the Elder Gods or Great Old Ones of Cthulhianic fame?
Or perhaps Blackmoor is one of those Moorcockian everpresent cities (aka Tanelorn) that has counterparts all across the multiverse, and the Egg likewise has connections across the multiverse?
I think I'm losing my memory! :o
(Fortunately next week I'll have a chance to check my hard copies.)
No-one have any idea about undersea setting material in the Gazetteers? I know about the Creature Crucible, but I'm sure there was some stuff in some of the Gazetteers. Minrothad, Ierendi, Dawn of the Emporers, maybe.
The only thing I can think of offhand are these:
1) Gaz4 mentions the mermen who have arrangements with the Ierendi Navy to protect their shores.
2) Gaz2 mentions Al-Kalim's quest to petition the Old Man of the Sea took him to the undersea kingdoms, where he assisted the mermen against the crabmen.
3) Gaz9 introduces the Water Elves, who don't really have any ties to Undersea until PC3.
4) Dawn of the Emperors has an underwater city.
Those are all the references that I can recall, outside of PC3.
3) Gaz9 introduces the Water Elves, who don't really have any ties to Undersea until PC3.
4) Dawn of the Emperors has an underwater city.
Those are all the references that I can recall, outside of PC3.
Brilliant! I think they're the ones I'm thinking of, especially the undersea city. The undersea city was what I was mainly interested in. Ack, can't wait to get my hands on my hard copies again now. Thanks all. :D
(Also reassuring to know I'm not going senile.)
Planescape: 1642 (-42)
Greyhawk: 7454 (-14)
Looks like it was a fairly quiet weekend.
Maybe the next target after Planescape should be
DnD Out of Print: 1899 :D
Regards,
Gary
Planescape: 1600 (-42)
DnD OOP: 1859 (-40)
Greyhawk: 7428 (-26)
There was at one point today 24 viewers on the GH board!
Regards,
Gary
I really don't think it does myself.
OK, there are obvious reasons why it actually, really doesn't work, as in a lot of the material isn't even compatible (for want of a better word) with Mystara.
But if you were to revise the Mystara campaign setting, would it work to follow the D&D cosmology model?
I always thought Mystara was more simple, and yet more ambiguous in its presentation of the multiverse.
But if you were to revise the Mystara campaign setting, would it work to follow the D&D cosmology model?
Interesting question... The great wheel of 3.5E is not particularly inspiring, to the point that the Forgotten Realms setting doesn't match it exactly. On the other hand, some aspects of the old Mystara cosmology weren't great either (the astral 2d thing was horrid). I would use the 3.5E model as an example to get mechanics and technical stuff, then organize the multiverse according to the Mystara canon, adjusting for common sense, clarity and consistancy with 3.5 rules.
After that, I'd wish for eleventy-billion dollars, omniscience, and the innate ability to cast Holy Word at will. :P
But if you were to revise the Mystara campaign setting, would it work to follow the D&D cosmology model?
I wouldn't. The Immortals Set cosmology is perfectly usable as it is, and the majority of the Known World/Mystara products are geared toward it already. 3e tends toward giving all settings their own cosmology anyway - Forgotten Realms, Al-Qadim, Oriental Adventures, Ghostwalk, Eberron, and Dragonlance all of their own cosmologies, so it's safe to assume Mystara would too.
On the other hand, I think Mystara could work in the Planescape multiverse (as the AD&D Mystara revision showed) without mutilating it too badly, since it wasn't primarily about the planes. But there's no particular reason to force it to unless you're running a Planescape or Spelljammer campaign, in which case it's much easier to assume the planes connect to all Prime worlds in more or less the same way.
That's not to say there can't be characters traveling from one cosmology to another, and I don't think "reality shifts" are necessary either.
Does anyone think Planescape works with Mystara? Or should I say, does anyone think the D&D cosmology as presented in Manual of the Planes/Planar Handbook works, since that's what's left of Planescape in print.
I think yes, and no.
It doesn't work (or fit, in any case) in the sense that Planescape's planar cosmology is a finite set of Outer Planes, while a staple of the Mystara cosmology is that there are an infinite number of OPs. Given that, though, there is no reason you couldn't shoehorn all the Planescape OPs into Mystara's Astral somewhere.
There are other things- have to figure out what to do with Positive/Negative planes (I do away with them myself), the Shadow Plane (don't have it IMC, its functions are largely taken up by the Nightmare Material Plane).
In any case, I think it is actually easier to retrofit Planescape's cosmology into Mystara, than vice versa.
There have been several planar discussions here on the list, most recently this one.
How has everyone used the planes in their Mystaran campaigns? I must admit, in all these years I've never really used them.
In any case, I think it is actually easier to retrofit Planescape's cosmology into Mystara, than vice versa.
There have been several planar discussions here on the list, most recently this one.
I think that if I were doing this, I would put the entire Mystaran cosmology, Immortals and Old Ones and all, in an infinite bubble in the Planescape Astral plane. Or vice versa. Then it would be possible, but rare, for the two to interact by breaking through the bubble.
The only question is, would it be better to put the Planescape cosmology, which is huge but not infinite, inside Mystara's, or to have a more mystical Mystara bubble which is tiny on the outside but infinite on the inside? Planescape's and Mystara's go for very different feels, I think - in Planescape, since there are a finite number of OP's, each one feels more important. Putting all of Mystara inside one of them preserves that feeling while making it seem like there are still an infinite number of possibilities. On the other hand, it might make more sense for the whole Planescape cosmology to be a single OP in the Mystaran cosmology (maybe some Old One's science project), and it would make it possible for Ravenloft to be an adjacent Mystaran-style OP so that both Mystarans and others could end up there.
Planescape Retrofit:
The majority of the Immortals dwell in realms in the 17 Outer Planes. Entropic Immortals tend to rule from the Lower Planes while those of other spheres spread themselves out more evenly. However, a few extremely powerful Immortals have domains in the Inner Planes, including the Elemasters and elemental rulers. Gaea dwells in the Plane of Earth, Ixion in the Positive Energy Plane, and Thanatos in the Negative Energy Plane. Khoronus dwells in the mysterious Demiplane of Time. Rad, of course, lives in the Quasielemental Plane of Radiance. The Nine Worlds known to the people of the Northern Reaches exist among these seventeen Outer Planes. The Immortals were not the first inhabitants of the Outer planes - the planes seem to have been constructed by an earlier race known only as the Old Ones. The cyclopean ruins left by these long-vanished deities can still be found scattered throughout the planes.
Most of the pocket planes that were, in classic D&D terms, considered to be Outer Planes are in fact demiplanes in the Deep Ethereal. Thorne, Chasm, and the Isle of Night, for example, are demiplanes close to the Negative Energy Plane, while the College of Magic in Glantri connects to a variety of tiny demiplanes close to nowhere else. The 24 Planes of the Immortal Mazikeen exist too among the half-worlds of the Deep Ethereal. Chak, the home plane of the planar spiders, is also an ethereal demiplane. The Spirit World known the folk of Ethengar may be connected to or the same as Mystara's Border Ethereal, which joins the Prime Plane with the Deep. The "Demiplane of Time" may be an actual demiplane, a full plane, or a sort of dimension that permeates the multiverse. The so-called Demiplane or Dimension of Nightmares, however, may be a place somewhere outside the cosmology entirely, as is the mysterious Vortex Dimension, which is beyond even Nightmare, as unthinkable and inconceivable to Nightmare's natives as they are to the inhabitants of the known planes.
The Prime Material Plane contains many worlds other than Mystara, including the original homeworld of the Alphatians, the world of Aelos, where chaos reigns, and Terre, where many Glantrians originally hailed from. These worlds are thought to be seperated by enormous crystal spheres.
Of course, I'll still try to post when I have to chance on other PCs (I want to see us pass Plansescape by Christmas too!).But has anyone really adventured in the planes in Mystara? I must admit that element of the Companion Rules really didn't appeal to my gaming group, since everywhere else in Mystara seemed so much more exciting. My campaign only ever touched on the planes really.
I've used some of the planes a bit, especially the elemental ones, plus a few of my own. I never cared much for the rules related to planes though, hostile environments, means of travel etc, so I kept that pretty improvised. I like having gates to weird places though. The Dimension of Nightmares keeps popping up as a big bad ones too...I havent found a good name for it in Norwegian yet though...
Håvard
I have some updates for the Mystic special moves to post and I was planning to organize so I could do lots of linking to eachother and a table of contents.
Planescape: 1518 (-53)
D&D OOP: 1789 (-80) Oops! forgot to add to Monthly update :embarrass
Greyhawk: 7362 (-46)
Slightly off topic I've just noticed that we currently have 599 threads!
tjedge1: I think Christmas is more likely than Thanksgiving but I'ld be very glad to be proven wrong. :D
Regards,
Gary
Planescape: 1,424 (-94)
D&D OOP: 1,698 (-91)
Greyhawk: 7,294 (-68)
Planescape: 1373 (-51)
Greyhawk: 7237 (-57)
DnD OOP: 1637 (-61)
Regards,
Gary
Planescape: 1,340 (-33)
Greyhawk: 7,227 (-10)
DnD OOP: 1,606 (-31)
Greyhawk: 7204 (-23)
Planescape: 1300 (-40)
DnD OOP: 1562 (-44)
Regards,
Gary
WOw, I need to get on track and get this rolling more. We seem to be losing steam. Although we're still making progress.
Losing steam? I'd say we're doing pretty good, considering that we gained 40 posts on Planescape in just two days, and 44 on OOP.
That said, today looks like a real postarama! Postapalooza?
Greyhawk: 7,178 (-26)
Planescape: 1,263 (-37)
DnD OOP: 1,512 (-50)
Greyhawk: 7130 (-48)
Planescape: 1156 (-107)
DnD OOP: 1410 (-102)
Regards,
Gary
DnD OOP: 1,347 (-63)
[EDIT] WHoops! That was the monthly notice, not the daily/weekly one! Sorry!
You forgot to put up this one:
DnD OOP: 1,347 (-63)
[EDIT] WHoops! That was the monthly notice, not the daily/weekly one! Sorry!
I should probably have included the OOP in the monthly update. :embarrass
In fact, I'll put your figure in for November, minus two - for these two posts
Regards,
Gary
Setting 3rd Oct 1st Nov Change
...
Greyhawk 7408 6792 -616
...
WOW! Is it possible that we'd surpass Greyhawk within a year?!
WOW! Is it possible that we'd surpass Greyhawk within a year?!
Er... no. I made a mistake.
:embarrass The actual figure as of NOW is 7086 (-322)
[edit]correcting monthly update.
Sorry,
Gary
Er... no. I made a mistake.
The actual figure as of NOW is 7086 (-322)
lol. It looked to good to be true so you know what they say... Still, the fact that we are still maintaining a gain on all the others (with the exception of Dark Sun) is very impressive!
Greyhawk: 7074 (-12)
Planescape: 1065 (-31)
DnD OOP: 1314 (-31)
Here's a thought though, How will the Pruning of the Boards affect our progress?
Regards,
Gary
Greyhawk: 7086 (+12)
Planescape: 1035 (-30)
DnD OOP: 1269 (-45)
Things have slowed down some what but hopefully by the end of the week we could have the Planescape gap to less than 1,000.
It's looking like the Christmas estimate was a little optimistic, never mind Thanksgiving.
Greyhawk has actually increased it's lead slightly
Regards,
Gary
Greyhawk: 7066 (-20)
Planescape: 997 (-38)
DnD OOP: 1238 (-31)
So less than a 1000 behind Planescape (just).
:bounce: 
Regards
Gary
Greyhawk: 7034 (-32)
Planescape: 929 (-68)
DnD OOP: 1174 (-68)
And we now only need 100 more posts to make 10,000 :D
Regards
Gary
And we now only need 100 more posts to make 10,000 :D
I'm getting ready to celebrate!
Håvard
And we now only need 100 more posts to make 10,000 :D
If I'm not mistaken, I think that was a milestone that Shawn said would be worthy of noting on the Vaults of Pandius!
If I'm not mistaken, I think that was a milestone that Shawn said would be worthy of noting on the Vaults of Pandius!
oh yeah, I forgot about that
oh yeah, I forgot about that
Are we there yet?
Håvard
Are we there yet?
Not quite 38... sorry 37 NOW to go.
Regards
Gary
Not quite 38... sorry 37 NOW to go.
10... 9... 8...
Long weekend for me this week.
All being well we will have reached and passed 10,000 by Monday morning, so have a drink on me in the meantime.
Regards
Gary
Are we there yet?
Håvard
10000 posts!!! Congrats one and all!
Dark Sun is still moving faster than us. I don't think I'll ever understand that. I ran into another DM here in Austin that plays Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk and he couldn't understand the fanatic posting on the Dark Sun forum. He posts mostly in FR and Greyhawk. Or he lurks in them, I can't remember.
And I thought hitting 1000 was pretty good!
Congradulations everyone!!!
10000 posts!!! Congrats one and all!
Awesome!
On the Dark Sun thing, I think it is healthy that we have some competition for posting rates. It just means we have to work harder, get more people to post actively etc etc. But now, lets celebrate this throughout December!
Håvard
Greyhawk: 7093 (+36)
Planescape: 881 (+15)
DnD OOP: 1138 (-28)
Oh dear! It looks like we've let things slip a bit.
Regards
Gary
Update time...
Greyhawk: 7093 (+36)
Planescape: 881 (+15)
DnD OOP: 1138 (-28)
Oh dear! It looks like we've let things slip a bit.
Regards
Gary
How on earth did that happen? This is most unsettling...
Oh dear! It looks like we've let things slip a bit.
I feel so guilty. But perhaps this can prove to be something to motivate us.
Not to worry, I'm about to go post crazy while I organize my mystic notes into something easier for everyone to read.
Well, then...post away!!
(Just like this pointless post ;) )
Another unnecessary post. :D
Another unnecessary post. :D
Wheeeeeeeee!!!!! :D
Greyhawk: 7030 (-63)
Planescape: 810 (-71)
DnD OOP: 1052 (-86)
It appears that we've picked up the pace slightly. :D
Regards
Gary
And I'm just getting started.
Indeed, on a rough count, another 150 special moves (posts) to go. :D
And then you can convert it all to 3.5e ;)
Regards
Gary
I'll repeat the whole thing with a new thread and convert to 3.5e.
:D
I'll have to take a look at other 3.5e concepts to see how it might need some conversion.
IIRC, in Unearthed Arcana there are some Martial Arts Styles/Specialist Monks where the bonus feats (again IIRC
)are preselected to fit in with the style.The special moves would probably be feats/class abilities or to borrow a mechanic from Conan d20 Combat Maneouvers. These are like feats except that you don't have to buy them. If you meet the prereq's then you can perform them.
Regards
Gary
Greyhawk: 6951 (-79)
Planescape: 676 (-134)
DnD OOP: 919 (-133)
Well that's not too bad is it?
Regards
Gary
Update time.
Greyhawk: 6951 (-79)
Planescape: 676 (-134)
DnD OOP: 919 (-133)
Well that's not too bad is it?
Thats just the way we like it
Håvard
Greyhawk: 6836 (-115)
Planescape: 560 (-116)
DnD OOP: 769 (-150)
Obviously a lot of this is down to tjedge and his mystic thread. Well done that man.
Regards
Gary
Greyhawk: 6,788 (-48)
Planescape: 503 (-57)
DnD OOP: 720 (-49)
We're slowing down a bit, but I guess that's the holidays for you!
Or maybe not.
So a little slow perhaps, but as Cthulhudrew has said that could be due to the holidays. (This is my first day back since the 22nd). It does look like that they don't celebrate Christmas on Athas though. ;)
All the more reason to get things moving again now that people seem to be getting back eh?
Thanks for keeping these updates going Gary
Håvard
It does look like that they don't celebrate Christmas on Athas though.
They don't have any gods or immortals, after all...
(I think the DS people must be having a "Think we can catch up with Dragonlance?" thread going...)
Greyhawk: 6592 (-194)
Planescape: 302 (-199)
DnD OOP: 483 (-235)
Things to seem to have picked up lately.
PS - I haven't forgot about the Werehawk. I've done the stats, just need to find some time for the interesting part - the history/description etc.
Regards
Gary
:bounce: Now we're cookin'
Regards
Gary
11,000+ posts!!!
YEEEHAA!
:invasion:Greyhawk: 6527 (-65)
Planescape: 185 (-117)
DnD OOP: 368 (-115)
So we're less than 200 behind Planescape and hopefully, if it keeps up, will have caught up by this time next week. :D
Regards
Gary
I've been so busy I've only been able to lurk, rather than post over the last few months. It's great to see the number of really interesting threads that are developing, and I think that's a major reason for the gap closing so quickly.
Well done everyone!
Greyhawk: 6455 (-72)
Planescape: 91 (-94)
DnD OOP: 301 (-67)
Think we might make it by the end of the week?
Hopefully, if not then by the end of next week.
Regards
Gary
'Til we get pruned at least.
Anyway, might as well have an update.
Greyhawk: 6427 (-28)
Planescape: 25 (-66)
DnD OOP: -1483 (-1784)
Regards
Gary
Just noticed that the DnD OOP has been pruned from 11,400+ posts to less than 10,000. It does mean we're now ahead of them, though. :D
'Til we get pruned at least.
Anyway, might as well have an update.
Greyhawk: 6427 (-28)
Planescape: 25 (-66)
DnD OOP: -1483 (-1784)
Doesn't feel as good to have beaten the DND OOP forum unfairly, but heck, any excuse to celebrate, right? ;)
Håvard
Doesn't feel as good to have beaten the DND OOP forum unfairly, but heck, any excuse to celebrate, right? ;)
It brought it forward by a month, I don't think the result was in any doubt.
And yes any excuse to have a
And we are currently 9... sorry make that 8 behind Planescape.
Regards
Gary
It brought it forward by a month, I don't think the result was in any doubt.
And yes any excuse to have a
You are right! Time to Celebrate!
And we are currently 9... sorry make that 8 behind Planescape.
:OMG!
Didnt realize we were that close. Even closer now...
Håvard
Ta-dah!
"Far too easy"
-Darth Vader
:invasion:
:bounce: Yippee!!! Who's next?
Greyhawk - only 6387 to go! :D
Greyhawk - only 6387 to go! :D
I suppose that calls for a new thread. :D
Regards
Gary
I suppose that calls for a new thread. :D
Regards
Gary
Here we go again! :fight!:
This is going to be quite the challenge but it wouldn't be worth tracking it if it wasn't! :D
(I love having these 'offical off-topic' threads. I think they're great for the Mystara community in general.)
Regards
Gary
Well, when I first started the Catch up with Ravenloft Tread, I had no idea how successful it would be. Now that we have beat those guys, people are pointing at Planescape. Can we be better than them aswell?
I dont know about you, but I figured it would be better to have a separate thread for that goal. If the RL crowd should pick up the pace or if we start being to lazy we might have to go back to that thread though. What do you think, can we make it? :D
Håvard
It's worth pointing out that you can count around 1/2, maybe 2/3 of the posts in the Deities and Planes main forum under the count for Planescape, since a majority of posts in that forum address or inquire about the Planescape material, both in the 3e incarnation in 'core' and directly about the 2e sourcebooks the 3e material is based upon.
And you could count a not so small fraction of posts in the FR deities and planes forum as directly addressing planescape as well, given that FR was part of that planar rubric till 3e retconned its cosmology.
But I'm just saying. ;)
GW
And you could count a not so small fraction of posts in the FR deities and planes forum as directly addressing planescape as well, given that FR was part of that planar rubric till 3e retconned its cosmology.
But I'm just saying. ;)
Whoops guys, we've been spotted! :D
Anyways, Shemeska, I'd like to stress that these threads are in no way intended to disrespect the other settings, but simply to encourage more discussions here. Thanks for helping us btw
And since Greywolf recommends it, I will check out your writings on EnWorld. Got anything specific I should look for Grey?
Håvard
Whoops guys, we've been spotted! :D
Anyways, Shemeska, I'd like to stress that these threads are in no way intended to disrespect the other settings, but simply to encourage more discussions here. Thanks for helping us btw
And since Greywolf recommends it, I will check out your writings on EnWorld. Got anything specific I should look for Grey?
Håvard
I would recommend both in Shemeska's .sig also here. In my opinion an excellent example of gameplay representation in story form, and creative writing combined:
Shemeska's Planescape Storyhour
Shemmy's Planescape Storyhour #2
Now I follow close to 50 Story Hour's on Enworld, the nice thing about it, is that usually one of them updates each day, so I get to read a short story at least once a day, and often more.
Here is a list of some of my other Fave's. Often they have different styles, so your mileage may vary. Some have completed, some are updated regularly, and others irregularly. A good following for many, and a writing style to suit many tastes.
In No particular Order:
Copperheads: Brimstone and Basilisks and Stomach-fluids, oh my
Shemeska's Planescape Storyhour
Piratecat's Updated Story Hour!
Kyri Chronicles part 4
The Fearless Manticore Killers & the Necropolis of Doom!
Against the Shadows VII - A Faded Glory Story Hour
The Mesalliance. Part 2.
Mine, I kinda have to follow it.
JollyDoc's Shackled City: The Legend Continues
Wizardru's Story Hour
Sagiro's Story Hour Returns
Tales of Wyre: The Compiled Sepulchrave Story Hour
Metamorphosis - From Dretch to Demon Lord
Prison of the Firebringer
Legacy of the Minotaur
In Hextor's Name
"Out of the Frying Pan" - Book I: Gathering Wood (reprise)
Company of the Random Encounter
The Scourge of the Ratmen [Scarred Lands]
The Risen Goddess
An Assassin's Tale: The Return of Grummok
The Liberation of Tenh
Barsoom Tales
The Mother of Dreams - Episode 2, Pt. IV
Dead Man's Chest -- Spooky Pirate Fun -- August 31
KidCthulhu's Scarred Land story hour
Wulf's Collected Story Hour
"Out of the Frying Pan" - Book II: Catching the Spark
Redemption for a Goblin
Defenders of Daybreak, The Early Years.
Grummok, Gargoyle Assassin Epic Grummok 3.5
Happy Reading,
GW
We are now over (just) 1,000 posts ahead of Planescape.
Regards
Gary