* * * Wizards Community Thread * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thread : A Lawful Thief? Started at 09-19-03 07:56 AM by Kilted Avenger Visit at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=101966 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Kilted Avenger Date : 09-19-03 07:56 AM Thread Title : A Lawful Thief? Hey everyone...I'm an old school D&D player from WAY back who recently rediscovered all of his old stuff tucked away in the basement. Seeing all of these old games has sparked my interest again and I'm in the process of starting at the very beginning, with the Basic/Expert rules, becoming familiar with the PC generation process and all that fun stuff. It's really bring back some fond memories, circa 1981. :) But, let me get to the purpose of this thread: while perusing through the rule book, I starting thinking "is it possible to play a lawful thief?". There doesn't appear to be any rule restrictions in this regard, but it seems to me that this combination would be extremely difficult to square....I mean, stealing, picking pockets and backstabbing are not exactly what you might consider very "lawful" activities. Couple this with the fact that the OD&D rules don't offer up the various nuances in Alignment that AD&D has, and you can see where I'm going with this. I suppose it's possible to play a "Robin Hood" type character in this situation, but I'd think that certain aspect of the character class would clash with the lawful alignment. Anyone have any thoughts on this subject? Thanks in advance for any consideration. Take care! Bydand!!! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Stonebeard Date : 09-19-03 09:15 PM For my two coppers worth, let me offer this. The character is lawful but follows his own set of laws. I'd have the player jot down a few "laws" that he always has to follow... example. 1. Always tip the waitresses at the Taverns and Inns well when I can. 2. Never sit with my back to the door 3. Don't take any crap from a politician who won't shake your hand. Ok some of these are a little silly but you get the idea... I hope. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Kilted Avenger Date : 09-19-03 10:57 PM LOL! Actually, those are kinda funny, but I see your point. Of course, there's always the situation of the character not using some of the more unsavory abilities, like the backstabbing. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : Stonebeard Date : 09-20-03 08:48 PM Actually in the 20 years of playing D&D, and admittingly I never played a lot of thieves, but I've never made all that much use of backstab. The reason being its rather troublesome trying to get into a position where you can use it and frankly in our games that time would be better spent figuring out the puzzles. Originally posted by Kilted Avenger LOL! Actually, those are kinda funny, but I see your point. Of course, there's always the situation of the character not using some of the more unsavory abilities, like the backstabbing. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : Clueless Date : 09-20-03 09:51 PM Well- for how to play a lawful thief... 3rd ed has made this more *possible* by making the rogue class more of a skills monger than a model for illegal activity but I can think of a number of situations that would allow an otherwise perfectly *lawfully* orriented person to be all for criminal activites. This normally seems to seperate a set of 'class abilites' from what defines you as a career though. Examples: a reporter, a undercover detective, a government spy/CIA agent (or the local equilivant of whatever world you're on- can we say "Harper"?), professional lockpick, even a message courier could use stealthiness if you have a touch of cyberpunk to the tone of the world. These are after all perfectly legal activites to validate having the skills, some of them actually are in existance to encourage the power and force of law and justice... so it *is* possible. You just have to split class definition from profession... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Lord_Soto Date : 09-20-03 10:12 PM I always thought of the Lawful thief along the lines of the Mafia. "Yo, you don't talk to big Tony... You talk to me, and I talk to big Tony. Capiche?" "You know, it would be a shame if those two-bit burglars came back and you haven't paid your 'insurance' lately... Thank you, and have a nice day." -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : Clueless Date : 09-20-03 10:24 PM :D I think I like that variation too... *takes a note for her drow ganger/assassin in a d20 modern game tommorrow* -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : Kilted Avenger Date : 09-21-03 03:15 PM Thread Title : Thanks! These are all very well considered opinions....thanks a ton for helping me wrap my time addled brain around the concept. I especially like the "mafia" reference. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : LORD ORION Date : 09-25-03 03:09 PM I think the real question is lawful good or neutral good thieves. A Lawful evil thief is pretty straight forward, as is a chaotic good one. The other alignments are even easier to fit a thief into. I've had a few campaigns with lawful good or neurtal good thieves.... they generally are scouts or tomb raid... err archeologists :D The pick pocket skill gets considered as sleight of hand tricks (like replacing an Idol with a bag of sand ala Indiana Jones), as it's hard to envision how a lawful good thief could actually pick a pocket and not be in conflict. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : Kilted Avenger Date : 09-25-03 03:13 PM Good examples, but I was considering the OD&D rules versus AD&D. I gather from the older rules, I can pretty much play it like I want to, as long as I stay within the bounds of "law". -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : LORD ORION Date : 09-25-03 04:38 PM Ahhh, my bad.... Heh, I even saw the Basic/expert D&D part and failed to register it in my brain. :) Still though, you can add my "archeologist" as a concept, as alot of the thief skills come in handy when applying them to tomb raiding :D Just add a moral twist such as recovering the treasure for study by a 3rd party etc... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : Lord_Soto Date : 09-25-03 07:04 PM Originally posted by LORD ORION I think the real question is lawful good or neutral good thieves. Lawful Good/Neutral thief = Military scout. Follows orders, uses thief skills for the good of his fellow soldiers. Sneaks around, may occasionally backstab an enemy, ferrets out ambushes. Neutral Good/True Neutral thief = Private investigator. Lives just outside the law. Has his own personal code of conduct, but treats it more as guidelines. Not afraid to use the law when his job needs it, but just as likely to go under the law to finish a job. Both of those examples are tagged Good/Neutral because that aspect depends on how the character personally carries out his chosen career. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : dogstar Date : 09-29-03 05:53 AM One of the important things to remember is that stealing is not an evil act, nor does it need to be an ethically unlawful act. The Mafia example is the a very good idea of the Lawful Thief. Its important to remember as well that the thief society is his guild, not the general public, so his obeidence to laws are the adherence to those of his fellows, and not society (the same way a paladin is not suddenly Chaotic in an anarchistic society). A lawful good theif may well be exampled by some kind of Gentleman theif, like Raffles, or a kind hearted pickpocket who targets those who pick on the weak and poor. The good thief never steals from those who can't afford it, and targets the wealth and the exploiters, possibly carving a Z on the wall to mark his victim..... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Downloaded from Wizards Community (http://forums.gleemax.com) at 05-10-08 08:17 AM.