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Metamind issues

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Sep 28, 2005 0:26:19 A player in my group had these thoughts...comments?

I was looking for psion prestige classes (why exactly does Dark Sun--where everybody and his cousin is psionic--only have *one* prestige class with psionic ability, which is more suited to psychic warriors?) and read the Metamind. I've never really considered it because I was figuring they lose access to higher level powers in exchange for a vast pool of power points (that was how the 3.0 one worked). I did the math...

A character can qualify as a metamind by taking five levels of psion.
A psion-5/metamind-10 starting with an 18 intelligence (bumped up to 21 from level bonuses, and 26 with a nice headband) will have the power points of a 10th level psion (88 plus 40 for intelligence). With the free manifesting abilities from the metamind class, he'll save 33 power points per day. And with the cognizance psicrystal, he has an extra 11 point reserve. That gives him a total of 172 power points usable in a day...of course if he uses those cognizance points, he has to recharge the crystal, by expending his power points, to be able to use the points again.

A psion-15 with the same intelligence has 195 power points plus 60 for his intelligence (255 total).
So after all those levels of metamind, he ends up 83 power points poorer, only knows 21 powers of up to 5th level versus the psion's 28 powers of up to 8th level. And while the psion can augment his powers by spending 15 power points on a power, the metamind is restricted to ten points per power.
If entry into the metamind class is delayed it gets worse: at character level 20, (or if the metamind takes five more level of psion after maxing out the metamind class) the metamind has 306 power points (including the cognizance points and free manifesting), while the psion has 433, for a difference of 127 (of course the psion has access to Reality Revision at this point, so rules do not apply to him as strictly anymore).

The final ability of the metamind is "Font of power", which allows him (for a one minute period once per day) to manifest without expending power points. Now he could make up that difference of 83 points by averaging over 8.3 points per round. But as anybody who's ever been in a tense D&D minute knows, you don't always need to go full power for ten straight rounds, so his chances of making great use of that power are pretty slim. And they were paid for by forfeiting three 6th level powers, three 7th level powers, and one 8th level power.

Any thoughts?

Raddu
#2
kalthandrix
Sep 28, 2005 6:17:44 If you look in the Dark Sun Forum Archive, several of us have developed more psionic PrC's to add to the spice-

Mindthief, Psychic Hound, Tribal Psionicist by Khaine

Master Shipfloater, Academician, Auditor by Methvezem

Psiologist, Janissary bu Kalthandrix

Crystalite by Kalthandrix/Khaine/Lyric/Rhul-Than Sage

Psionic Archer, Psionic Beastmaster by Sysane

And several others for all of you psionic class needs :D
#3
zombiegleemax
Sep 28, 2005 6:29:14 You are right, but at 16 level (psion 6/metamind 10) he can lern temporal acceleration and use 2 powers per round (costing 11 for the temporal acceleration, and 11 for each power) and, at 20 level he can manifest 3 powers per round (for a total of 60 PPs per round!).
#4
ruhl-than_sage
Sep 28, 2005 18:45:42 The point still stands that the Metamind Prestige classes is not really a prestige class at all, but a horrible prank designed to fool those who don't calculate the angles. I thought it was a raw deal when I looked over it, but I never realized how raw it really was.
#5
Shei-Nad
Sep 28, 2005 21:07:36 I realised this sometime ago and posted it on the Psionics board. It seems that everyone agrees this Prestige Class is not only useless, but harmful to your character, as it has been demonstrated earlier.

Here is my rework of it, which had been met with some approval, although there are virtually a dozen adaptation of this class on the Psionics board.

Metamind

Requirements: Same.

HD, BAB, Saves and Skills: Same.

Powers known: +1 level at 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th and 10th level.

Power points per day: +1 level per level (see below)

Special:

Level 1: Power to Burn: By setting aside the development of new and stronger powers, the metamind can concentrate on developping her raw psionic power. At each metamind level, a metamind gains half again as many power points as her new manifester level would grant her. For example, a 5th level psion taking a 6th level in the psion class normally gains 10 power points. However, a 5th level psion taking a 1st level in the metamind class would gain 15 power points. This ability does not affect power points gained by a high ability score or by feats and powers.

Level 1, 3, 5, 7, 9: Cognizance Psicrystal: As XPH, but 1st level: 3 power points, +2 pp every at levels 3, 5, 7 and 9.

Level 2: Body Fuel: Gain this feat for free, even without the prerequisites.

Level 4: Improved Body Fuel: Starting at 4th level, whenever a metamind uses the Body Fuel feat, she adds half her metamind level to the number of power points she gains.

Level 8: Body Fuel Mastery: At 8th level, the metamind has mastered the use of using his own body as fuel for his powers. Whenever a metamind uses the Body Fuel feat, she only takes Constitution burn damage.

Level 10: Font of Power: As XPH.

There you are. I'm kind of wondering if I should remove the psicrystal aspect of that class altogether, but I'm not sure what to replace it with... anyways, hope that helps.
#6
Pennarin
Sep 28, 2005 21:22:41 The great number of Metamind threads on the XPH board, and the fact one of its hugiest thread is about the Metamind, makes me all the more impressed by WotC's reluctance to emit a SRD version of the Metamind amended to be useful.

They could take a hint.
#7
ruhl-than_sage
Sep 29, 2005 1:31:17 Its not the only PrC in that book that needs to be fixed. At the other end of the sectrum, the illithid slayer is the most overpowered PrC I've ever seen. If you disagree, just look at the build of a character with 4 levels in Ranger 1 level in Psion, and the rest in Illithid Slayer and compare it to a 15th level Ranger or Psion and you'll see what I mean.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Sep 28, 2005 0:26:19	A player in my group had these thoughts...comments? I was looking for psion prestige classes (why exactly does Dark Sun--where everybody and his cousin is psionic--only have one prestige class with psionic ability, which is more suited to psychic warriors?) and read the Metamind. I've never really considered it because I was figuring they lose access to higher level powers in exchange for a vast pool of power points (that was how the 3.0 one worked). I did the math... A character can qualify as a metamind by taking five levels of psion. A psion-5/metamind-10 starting with an 18 intelligence (bumped up to 21 from level bonuses, and 26 with a nice headband) will have the power points of a 10th level psion (88 plus 40 for intelligence). With the free manifesting abilities from the metamind class, he'll save 33 power points per day. And with the cognizance psicrystal, he has an extra 11 point reserve. That gives him a total of 172 power points usable in a day...of course if he uses those cognizance points, he has to recharge the crystal, by expending his power points, to be able to use the points again. A psion-15 with the same intelligence has 195 power points plus 60 for his intelligence (255 total). So after all those levels of metamind, he ends up 83 power points poorer, only knows 21 powers of up to 5th level versus the psion's 28 powers of up to 8th level. And while the psion can augment his powers by spending 15 power points on a power, the metamind is restricted to ten points per power. If entry into the metamind class is delayed it gets worse: at character level 20, (or if the metamind takes five more level of psion after maxing out the metamind class) the metamind has 306 power points (including the cognizance points and free manifesting), while the psion has 433, for a difference of 127 (of course the psion has access to Reality Revision at this point, so rules do not apply to him as strictly anymore). The final ability of the metamind is "Font of power", which allows him (for a one minute period once per day) to manifest without expending power points. Now he could make up that difference of 83 points by averaging over 8.3 points per round. But as anybody who's ever been in a tense D&D minute knows, you don't always need to go full power for ten straight rounds, so his chances of making great use of that power are pretty slim. And they were paid for by forfeiting three 6th level powers, three 7th level powers, and one 8th level power. Any thoughts? Raddu
#2 kalthandrix Sep 28, 2005 6:17:44	If you look in the Dark Sun Forum Archive, several of us have developed more psionic PrC's to add to the spice- Mindthief, Psychic Hound, Tribal Psionicist by Khaine Master Shipfloater, Academician, Auditor by Methvezem Psiologist, Janissary bu Kalthandrix Crystalite by Kalthandrix/Khaine/Lyric/Rhul-Than Sage Psionic Archer, Psionic Beastmaster by Sysane And several others for all of you psionic class needs :D
#3 zombiegleemax Sep 28, 2005 6:29:14	You are right, but at 16 level (psion 6/metamind 10) he can lern temporal acceleration and use 2 powers per round (costing 11 for the temporal acceleration, and 11 for each power) and, at 20 level he can manifest 3 powers per round (for a total of 60 PPs per round!).
#4 ruhl-than_sage Sep 28, 2005 18:45:42	The point still stands that the Metamind Prestige classes is not really a prestige class at all, but a horrible prank designed to fool those who don't calculate the angles. I thought it was a raw deal when I looked over it, but I never realized how raw it really was.
#5 Shei-Nad Sep 28, 2005 21:07:36	I realised this sometime ago and posted it on the Psionics board. It seems that everyone agrees this Prestige Class is not only useless, but harmful to your character, as it has been demonstrated earlier. Here is my rework of it, which had been met with some approval, although there are virtually a dozen adaptation of this class on the Psionics board. Metamind Requirements: Same. HD, BAB, Saves and Skills: Same. Powers known: +1 level at 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th and 10th level. Power points per day: +1 level per level (see below) Special: Level 1: Power to Burn: By setting aside the development of new and stronger powers, the metamind can concentrate on developping her raw psionic power. At each metamind level, a metamind gains half again as many power points as her new manifester level would grant her. For example, a 5th level psion taking a 6th level in the psion class normally gains 10 power points. However, a 5th level psion taking a 1st level in the metamind class would gain 15 power points. This ability does not affect power points gained by a high ability score or by feats and powers. Level 1, 3, 5, 7, 9: Cognizance Psicrystal: As XPH, but 1st level: 3 power points, +2 pp every at levels 3, 5, 7 and 9. Level 2: Body Fuel: Gain this feat for free, even without the prerequisites. Level 4: Improved Body Fuel: Starting at 4th level, whenever a metamind uses the Body Fuel feat, she adds half her metamind level to the number of power points she gains. Level 8: Body Fuel Mastery: At 8th level, the metamind has mastered the use of using his own body as fuel for his powers. Whenever a metamind uses the Body Fuel feat, she only takes Constitution burn damage. Level 10: Font of Power: As XPH. There you are. I'm kind of wondering if I should remove the psicrystal aspect of that class altogether, but I'm not sure what to replace it with... anyways, hope that helps.
#6 Pennarin Sep 28, 2005 21:22:41	The great number of Metamind threads on the XPH board, and the fact one of its hugiest thread is about the Metamind, makes me all the more impressed by WotC's reluctance to emit a SRD version of the Metamind amended to be useful. They could take a hint.
#7 ruhl-than_sage Sep 29, 2005 1:31:17	Its not the only PrC in that book that needs to be fixed. At the other end of the sectrum, the illithid slayer is the most overpowered PrC I've ever seen. If you disagree, just look at the build of a character with 4 levels in Ranger 1 level in Psion, and the rest in Illithid Slayer and compare it to a 15th level Ranger or Psion and you'll see what I mean.