Why the heck Derek Crownguard doesn't have any knight of Solamnia levels?? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Why the heck Derek Crownguard doesn't have any knight of Solamnia levels??

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
kishpa
Oct 02, 2005 14:02:23 Why the heck Derek Crownguard doesn't have any knight of Solamnia levels as he's shown on the War of the Lance supplement??
#2
kalanth
Oct 02, 2005 14:11:05
Why the heck Derek Crownguard doesn't have any knight of Solamnia levels as he's shown on the War of the Lance supplement??

Because you don't have to have KoS levels to be a knight, you take them only if you think that what they offer is "for you." Derek Crownguard is an example of one NPC where the crunch just does not fit the flavor of the character.
#3
cam_banks
Oct 02, 2005 15:37:17 Derek is also lawful neutral, not lawful good.

He has levels in classes such as noble and legendary tactician which either duplicate or provide an equivalent array of abilities to those he would have gained with the Rose Knight prestige class. And as Kalanth says, he's the perfect example of how you can be a Solamnic knight without Solamnic knight PrC levels.

Cheers,
Cam
#4
darthsylver
Oct 08, 2005 10:15:41 Simple, he faked the funk because he was not a good person deep down and he was just out for himself.
#5
wolf72
Oct 08, 2005 15:00:23
Simple, he faked the funk because he was not a good person deep down and he was just out for himself.

if not faking, he fell from grace pretty hard ...
#6
zombiegleemax
Oct 11, 2005 13:51:48 I think that the only reason why people do not like Derek is because he was an antithesis to Sturm.
#7
Sysane
Oct 11, 2005 14:22:07
if not faking, he fell from grace pretty hard ...

I like to think that Derek had levels in KoR at some point but later lost the PrC's abilities due to failing to up hold the Oath & Measure.
#8
penknight
Oct 11, 2005 14:37:40 The way I look at it is that Derek was in 1st and 2nd Edition, where you didn't have to be Lawful Good. They were variants of the cavalier class in Unearthed Arcana, and as such only had to be some form of good. So I look at it as he actually had levels as a Knight of Solamnia but then he suffered an alignment change, albeit a massive one, and snapped and went crazy. It seems to me as though the whole family was kinda off if you read the old 2nd Edition module Knight's Sword and read about Derek and his cousin Charles who was a Chaotic Evil Knight of the Crown of 3rd level. That is my take on the reason as to why he doesn't have any Knight of the Rose levels.
#9
zombiegleemax
Oct 11, 2005 19:58:17 Also, there is a difference between the Age of Despair. In the age prior to the Cataclysm, a true cleric probably could have weeded Derek Crowngaurd out and denied him entrance into the Order of the Rose, on the grounds that a True Cleric would have been able to know his heart. In the age of despair, though, from a game mechanic standpoint, he had levels in other things to correspond with what he was.

However, as far as the Roles of the Knights of Solamnia go, Derek Crowngaurd was a Knight of the Rose that advanced thru his trials apparently honorably, whom also recovered a Dragon Orb for the council and all that. From a game standpoint, it would be an RPG'd thing.

In comparison, Sturm BrightBLade in my campaign would already have all the level bonuses and abillities that higher level Knight of Solamnia would have. He would get the Attack and Defense bonus, and all of that. Now, on a Social Level or how he is recognized by others, he may not be a bonafide Knight as he was not recognized as a Crown Knight till nearly the end of WINTERS MIDNIGHT. Going to what Laurana said at his funeral, about how he had always been a Knight where it mattered the most.
#10
wolf72
Oct 11, 2005 20:30:05
I like to think that Derek had levels in KoR at some point but later lost the PrC's abilities due to failing to up hold the Oath & Measure.

now the big question is if that had to do with his insanity or caused his insanity (yes yes! charge the bad guys ... damn tactics and reinforcements)
#11
zombiegleemax
Oct 14, 2005 0:46:09 That's a little hard to say because the 'insanity' that ended up gripping Derek Crowngaurd was vainglory and ambition and stuff....things that are not exactly diagnosable. There are people in real life that are so committed to something they lose their grip on other things, like CrownGaurd did.
#12
zombiegleemax
Oct 18, 2005 14:04:58 Who cares? Derek Crownguard was a stupidhead. He was mean to Uncle Tas and Sturm. The big jerk deserved everything he got.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kishpa Oct 02, 2005 14:02:23	Why the heck Derek Crownguard doesn't have any knight of Solamnia levels as he's shown on the War of the Lance supplement??
#2 kalanth Oct 02, 2005 14:11:05	Why the heck Derek Crownguard doesn't have any knight of Solamnia levels as he's shown on the War of the Lance supplement?? Because you don't have to have KoS levels to be a knight, you take them only if you think that what they offer is "for you." Derek Crownguard is an example of one NPC where the crunch just does not fit the flavor of the character.
#3 cam_banks Oct 02, 2005 15:37:17	Derek is also lawful neutral, not lawful good. He has levels in classes such as noble and legendary tactician which either duplicate or provide an equivalent array of abilities to those he would have gained with the Rose Knight prestige class. And as Kalanth says, he's the perfect example of how you can be a Solamnic knight without Solamnic knight PrC levels. Cheers, Cam
#4 darthsylver Oct 08, 2005 10:15:41	Simple, he faked the funk because he was not a good person deep down and he was just out for himself.
#5 wolf72 Oct 08, 2005 15:00:23	Simple, he faked the funk because he was not a good person deep down and he was just out for himself. if not faking, he fell from grace pretty hard ...
#6 zombiegleemax Oct 11, 2005 13:51:48	I think that the only reason why people do not like Derek is because he was an antithesis to Sturm.
#7 Sysane Oct 11, 2005 14:22:07	if not faking, he fell from grace pretty hard ... I like to think that Derek had levels in KoR at some point but later lost the PrC's abilities due to failing to up hold the Oath & Measure.
#8 penknight Oct 11, 2005 14:37:40	The way I look at it is that Derek was in 1st and 2nd Edition, where you didn't have to be Lawful Good. They were variants of the cavalier class in Unearthed Arcana, and as such only had to be some form of good. So I look at it as he actually had levels as a Knight of Solamnia but then he suffered an alignment change, albeit a massive one, and snapped and went crazy. It seems to me as though the whole family was kinda off if you read the old 2nd Edition module Knight's Sword and read about Derek and his cousin Charles who was a Chaotic Evil Knight of the Crown of 3rd level. That is my take on the reason as to why he doesn't have any Knight of the Rose levels.
#9 zombiegleemax Oct 11, 2005 19:58:17	Also, there is a difference between the Age of Despair. In the age prior to the Cataclysm, a true cleric probably could have weeded Derek Crowngaurd out and denied him entrance into the Order of the Rose, on the grounds that a True Cleric would have been able to know his heart. In the age of despair, though, from a game mechanic standpoint, he had levels in other things to correspond with what he was. However, as far as the Roles of the Knights of Solamnia go, Derek Crowngaurd was a Knight of the Rose that advanced thru his trials apparently honorably, whom also recovered a Dragon Orb for the council and all that. From a game standpoint, it would be an RPG'd thing. In comparison, Sturm BrightBLade in my campaign would already have all the level bonuses and abillities that higher level Knight of Solamnia would have. He would get the Attack and Defense bonus, and all of that. Now, on a Social Level or how he is recognized by others, he may not be a bonafide Knight as he was not recognized as a Crown Knight till nearly the end of WINTERS MIDNIGHT. Going to what Laurana said at his funeral, about how he had always been a Knight where it mattered the most.
#10 wolf72 Oct 11, 2005 20:30:05	I like to think that Derek had levels in KoR at some point but later lost the PrC's abilities due to failing to up hold the Oath & Measure. now the big question is if that had to do with his insanity or caused his insanity (yes yes! charge the bad guys ... damn tactics and reinforcements)
#11 zombiegleemax Oct 14, 2005 0:46:09	That's a little hard to say because the 'insanity' that ended up gripping Derek Crowngaurd was vainglory and ambition and stuff....things that are not exactly diagnosable. There are people in real life that are so committed to something they lose their grip on other things, like CrownGaurd did.
#12 zombiegleemax Oct 18, 2005 14:04:58	Who cares? Derek Crownguard was a stupidhead. He was mean to Uncle Tas and Sturm. The big jerk deserved everything he got.