What is the dfference between Dragonlance & Greyhawk?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

zombiegleemax

Oct 12, 2005 13:57:09
...in general.
#2

caeruleus

Oct 12, 2005 14:24:35
Pretty much everything. Dragonlance involves an epic struggle between Good and Evil. High fantasy stuff. Greyhawk is more gritty. More in the sword and sorcery genre.

I once heard the difference described in this way. Dragonlance is about who the characters are. Greyhawk is more about what the characters do. In other words, Dragonlance tends to focus on character development, because you've got great authors creating great characters. If you think of Dragonlance, you think of Raistlin, Tanis, Sturm, Palin, Mina, Lord Soth, etc. If you think of Greyhawk, you think of great adventures, like Temple of Elemental Evil, Against the Giants, Vault of the Drow, etc.

Both have their attractions.
#3

alakar

Oct 12, 2005 22:35:59
well put
#4

zombiegleemax

Oct 12, 2005 22:51:47
Hey thanks! I think that Greyhawk is more suited for me. Is it a low-fantasy (low-magic) setting? For me, FR is way too high-fantasy.
#5

weasel_fierce

Oct 12, 2005 23:55:46
Greyhawk has seen a lot of revision. Originally, it was rather gritty and low magic, though D20 adaptations may have taken that in a different direction.

In the original campaign set, magic wasnt really a major element.
#6

cam_banks

Oct 13, 2005 5:51:32
Hey thanks! I think that Greyhawk is more suited for me. Is it a low-fantasy (low-magic) setting? For me, FR is way too high-fantasy.

Given that Greyhawk is the default setting for 3rd edition D&D, it isn't very low-magic. Most D&D settings aren't, in fact. If you're looking for a low-fantasy setting, more in the vein of Fritz Leiber's Lankhmar or Robert E. Howard's Conan, you've got a number of published sourcebooks available for d20 gaming that can do that for you (including the Conan RPG). These typically change the basic rules of D&D to some extent to eliminate the dependence on magic items at high level, or make combat more gritty and realistic.

Some other products to look at include Monte Cook Presents: Iron Heroes, The Black Company, Grim Tales, the aforementioned Conan RPG, Midnight 2nd Edition, Iron Kingdoms Character Guide & World Guide (two books), and even Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (which isn't d20, but is a very popular grim and gritty fantasy game with low magic elements).

Hope that helps!

Cheers,
Cam
#7

Dragonhelm

Oct 13, 2005 6:57:39
I once heard the difference described in this way. Dragonlance is about who the characters are. Greyhawk is more about what the characters do.

I'd say that's fairly accurate. When I think of Greyhawk, I tend to think of fantastic adventures. I wonder how the Realms would fit in with this formula. Would the Realms be described as "where characters go"?

Oh, and I wouldn't say that GH is low magic, either. Look back at Greyhawk Adventures, and you can see plenty of magic items in it. Combined with magical societies such as the Circle of Eight, and that's a formula for a fair amount of magic.
#8

zombiegleemax

Oct 13, 2005 9:32:52
Thank alot my friends for sharing your knowledge with me.
#9

weasel_fierce

Oct 13, 2005 12:29:54
Oh, and I wouldn't say that GH is low magic, either. Look back at Greyhawk Adventures, and you can see plenty of magic items in it. Combined with magical societies such as the Circle of Eight, and that's a formula for a fair amount of magic.

Just because there are magic items in a book doesnt mean they are commonly available. Most of the items in Greyhawk adventures are unique items, that only one exists of.
#10

caeruleus

Oct 13, 2005 12:53:59
Given that Greyhawk is the default setting for 3rd edition D&D, it isn't very low-magic.

That's because Greyhawk isn't really the default setting, despite what WotC may say. The default setting is a watered down bastardization of Greyhawk. The Greyhawk I know and love is more gritty, has a lower level of magic, and has a Lawful Good St. Cuthbert.

I'd say that's fairly accurate. When I think of Greyhawk, I tend to think of fantastic adventures. I wonder how the Realms would fit in with this formula. Would the Realms be described as "where characters go"?

Perhaps. But I'd be more inclined to say that the Realms are about who the characters meet (ie, uberpowerful NPCs). At least my current Forgotten Realms DM isn't falling prey to that trap too much....
#11

caeruleus

Oct 13, 2005 12:58:24
Oh, and I wouldn't say that GH is low magic, either. Look back at Greyhawk Adventures, and you can see plenty of magic items in it. Combined with magical societies such as the Circle of Eight, and that's a formula for a fair amount of magic.

Just because there are magic items in a book doesnt mean they are commonly available. Most of the items in Greyhawk adventures are unique items, that only one exists of.

Right. And the Circle of Eight don't flash their magic around. They only get involved when something major threatens the balance.
#12

cam_banks

Oct 13, 2005 16:24:22
That's because Greyhawk isn't really the default setting, despite what WotC may say. The default setting is a watered down bastardization of Greyhawk. The Greyhawk I know and love is more gritty, has a lower level of magic, and has a Lawful Good St. Cuthbert.

I would hazard a guess that the Greyhawk you know and love is a 1st edition AD&D setting, not a 3.5 setting, in that case.

Cheers,
Cam
#13

caeruleus

Oct 13, 2005 19:19:02
I would hazard a guess that the Greyhawk you know and love is a 1st edition AD&D setting, not a 3.5 setting, in that case.

Cheers,
Cam

In a sense yes, because it was made for 1e.

But in a sense no, because I play 3.5. Not 3.5 strictly by the book (as you seem to be able to tell), but 3.5 nonetheless.

For the record, though, the Greyhawk presented in the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer doesn't have to be high magic either.
#14

cam_banks

Oct 13, 2005 20:42:04
For the record, though, the Greyhawk presented in the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer doesn't have to be high magic either.

No, it doesn't, and I certainly wouldn't class it in the same ballpark as the Realms or Eberron, but I similarly would never call it low-magic. It's always had as much magic as the version of D&D that it's been written for, and any quick look through the published adventures, boxed sets, and supplements for Greyhawk will tell you that magic is not scarce or rare.

Cheers,
Cam
#15

weasel_fierce

Oct 13, 2005 23:30:58
Greyhawk was inexorably intwined with AD&D 1st edition. I must say, as a "default" setting, Eberron is a much better fit to 3.5 than Greyhawk is, as its written explicitly for the system
#16

caeruleus

Oct 13, 2005 23:33:39
No, it doesn't, and I certainly wouldn't class it in the same ballpark as the Realms or Eberron, but I similarly would never call it low-magic. It's always had as much magic as the version of D&D that it's been written for, and any quick look through the published adventures, boxed sets, and supplements for Greyhawk will tell you that magic is not scarce or rare.

Cheers,
Cam

Certainly. It has a lower level of magic, but, you're right, in itself it's not low-magic (it's got more magic than, say, Middle-Earth, for example).
#17

zombiegleemax

Oct 17, 2005 14:22:03
Dragonlance is definitely more story driven. Magic is all over the place, but not in the sense that it's used constantly. There are a lot of people who wield magic powers, and there are a lot of people who carry and trade magic items, but it's not a constant, silly onslaught of these effects. Think of it in a way that you would think of the difference between the first and second Matrix movies:

The Matrix: Lots of wierd, philosophical and technological things all around you, but they are toned down just enough to believe that it's real. When something out of the "ordinary" happens, it's big, it has an impact, it's fantastic. This is Dragonlance.

The Matrix Reloaded: Take the cool parts from above and dump it on you every minute of the film until your head hurts with special-effects overload. This, does not a great sequal make. Enter the Forgotten Realms, where the population is higher than China, there are stupid-powerful NPC's at every turn who could care less about the state/fate of the world, every item is magical, and every country/nation/empire/city-state has four climate zones in it. Man, I wanted this one to be good, but after thorough watching and playing (the movie and the D&D Campaign Setting), it continues to disappoint people who understand good story-telling.

The Matrix Revolutions: A 2 hour episode of DragonBallZ guest-starring Jesus. While this doesn't fit in with the rest of this post, it was certainly worth stating.

Greyhawk, at least traditionally, fits in with the first setting description. There's really not a high level of magic per se, but the world isn't story driven either. Greyhawk is definitely play-driven. Dungeon crawls galore! It's probably the best for people who just want to trim the fat and play the game. If you wish to create an epic saga where the fate of the world will [involuntarily] end up in your hands....play Dragonlance. Both are swell. Opie said so.
#18

quirriff

Oct 28, 2005 7:10:09
Plus this may have changed but gold is cheap, so their are Steel Coins instead of gold ones.