Poison Pricing Feedack

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

methvezem

Nov 05, 2005 15:01:35		I have recently finished pricing the various poisons found in ToA and TotDL (thanks Kamelion for the original compilation), and i would like to have your opinion on them:
I've put the price in bold, so they are easy to see for each poison.

(Sorry about the look of the table, its about the best I can do)

[b]Name Effect Cost(Cp) [/b] <br /> Antloid, Archer Contact, DC 16 2d6 Con 0 [b]210[/b]<br /> Beetle, Dragon* Contact, DC 12 2d6 Con 2d6 Con [b]175[/b]<br /> Mulworm Contact, DC 10 2d6 Dex 1d6 Con [b]120[/b]<br /> <br /> Kivit Ingested, DC 10 1d3 Con 1d3 Con [b]90[/b]<br /> Mulworm Ingested, DC 12 1d6 Con 1d6 Con [b]125[/b]<br /> Tree of Death Fruit Ingested, DC 22 4d6 Con 4d6 Con [b]6,000 [/b] <br /> Fordorran Inhaled, DC 16 2d6 Dex 3d6 Dex [b]3,500[/b]<br /> Gaj Inhaled, DC 16 1d4 Con and naus. 1 rnd 0 [b]175[/b]<br /> Jalath&#8217;gak Inhaled, DC 16 p. 2d6 rnds 0 [b]100[/b]<br /> Jalath&#8217;gak, Giant Inhaled, DC 21 p.3d6 rnd 0 [b]150[/b]<br /> Poisonweed Inhaled, DC 21 un. 2d6 min un. 2d6 min [b]210[/b]<br /> <br /> Antloid, Infantry Injury, DC 16 2d6 Con 0 [b]210[/b]<br /> Assassin Bug Injury, DC 10 1d3 Dex 1d3 Dex [b]100[/b]<br /> Blight Injury, DC 10 p.2d6 min. p. 2d6 min [b]90[/b]<br /> Bloodgrass (plains) Injury, DC 13 1d6 Dex p. 2d6 rds. [b]350[/b]<br /> Bloodgrass (jungle) Injury, DC 19 1d6 Dex p. 2d6 rds. [b]600[/b]<br /> Blossomkiller Injury, DC 17 1d6 Dex un. 2-20 min. [b]500[/b]<br /> Boneclaw, Lesser Injury, DC 10 1d6 Con 1d6 Con [b]100[/b]<br /> Cactus, Hunting Injury, DC 14 p.1 min p.1d4+2 rds [b]75[/b]<br /> Cactus, Spider Injury, DC 12 p.2d4 rds 0 [b]50[/b]<br /> Cha'thrang Injury, DC 18 1 Str 2d6 Str [b]300[/b]<br /> Cistern Fiend Injury, DC 25 1d6 Dex 2d6 Dex [b]2,700 [/b] <br /> Drik, High Injury, DC 18 2d6 Con 1d6 Con [b]275[/b]<br /> Dune Freak Injury, DC 14 1 Str 1d6 Str. [b]120[/b]<br /> Dust Glider Injury, DC 13 1d4 Str 1d4 Str [b]140[/b]<br /> Floater Injury, DC 13 p.2d6 min 0 [b]50[/b]<br /> Golem, Chitin Injury, DC 15 1d4 Str 1d4 Str [b]160 [/b] <br /> Hej-Kin Injury, DC 11 1 Con. 1 Con [b]80[/b]<br /> Jankx Injury, DC 11 1d6 Str 2d6 Dex [b]100[/b]<br /> Kank, Soldier Injury, DC 13 1d6 Str 1d6 Str [b]120[/b]<br /> Mastyrial, Black Injury, DC 16 2d6 Dex 1d6 Str [b]240[/b]<br /> Mastyrial, Desert Injury, DC 18 1d6 Con 1d6 Con [b]210[/b]<br /> Mulworm Injury, DC 12 1d6 Con 1d6 Con [b]125[/b]<br /> Psionocus Injury, DC 13 sleep 1 min plus drain PP sleep 5d6 min plus drain PP. [b]150[/b]<br /> Puddingfish Injury, DC 21 p.1 min. p. 2d4 rds. [b]125[/b]<br /> Pulp Bee Injury, DC 14 1d4 Dex 1d4 Dex [b]150[/b]<br /> Scarlet Warden Injury, DC 21 1d6 Con 1d6 Con [b]700[/b]<br /> Scorpion, Barbed Injury, DC 17 1d4 Con 1d4 Con [b]180[/b]<br /> Scorpion, Gold Injury, DC 12 1d6 Str 1d4 Str [b]120[/b]<br /> Silk Wyrm Injury, DC 18 1d4 Str p. 1d4 days. [b]250[/b]<br /> Silt Horror, Black Injury, DC 14 p.1 min. p.1d6 rds [b]90[/b]<br /> Silt Horror, Red Injury, DC 17 p. 2d6 rds p.2d6 rnds [b]120[/b]<br /> Silt Serpent Injury, DC 10 1d6 Str 1d6 Con [b]110[/b]<br /> Silt Serpent, Giant Injury, DC 13 2d4 Str 2d4 Con [b]375[/b]<br /> Silt S., Giant (imm.) Injury, DC 15 2d4 Str 2d4 Con [b]450[/b]<br /> Spider, Crystal Injury, DC 17 1d6 Con 1d6 Con [b]200[/b]<br /> Spider, Dark Defiler Injury, DC 13 1d6 Con 0 [b]110[/b]<br /> Spider, Dark Psion Injury, DC 14 1d6 Con 0 [b]120[/b]<br /> Spider, Dark Queen Injury, DC 19 1d6 Con 2d6 Con [b]1,600[/b]<br /> Spider, Dark Warrior Injury, DC 15 1d6 Con 0 [b]130[/b]<br /> Spider, Mountain Injury, DC 15 p. 2d12 min. p. 2d12 min. [b]250[/b]<br /> Spider, Silt Injury, DC 13 p.2d6 min. p. 2d6 mins. [b]120[/b]<br /> S'thag Zagath Injury, DC 21 1d4 Dex p.1 min [b]800[/b]<br /> Thri-Kreen Injury, DC 11 p. 2d6 min p.2d6 min. [b]100[/b]<br /> Trin Injury, DC 13 p. 2d6 min p.2d6 min. [b]120[/b]<br /> Wall Walker Injury, DC 14 p.1d6 rds 0 [b]60 [/b] <br /> Wezer, Soldier Injury, DC 13 un.1 min un. 2d4 days [b]180[/b]<br /> Zik-trin&#8217;ak Injury, DC 17 p.2d6 min p. 2d6 min [b]200[/b]<br /> Zik-trin&#8217;ta Injury, DC 15 p. 2d6 min 2d6 Con [b]500[/b]<br /> *Only effective against dray and dragons.<br /> p. : paralysis<br /> un : unconsciousness
#2

zombiegleemax

Nov 10, 2005 1:10:38 		Edited for stupidity I found what I was asking about
#3

Pennarin

Nov 10, 2005 2:09:16 		After all that time clamoring for poisons and their prices, no one has anything to say? Where are the posters who rooted for this material?
#4

zombiegleemax

Nov 10, 2005 3:41:20 		I didn't ask for it but its a good thing to have i pulled it into a excel sheet so i can print off the ful list and lists by type
#5

methvezem

Nov 10, 2005 10:07:15 		Guess those price are alright since nobody has anything to say against them. :P

Kam, what do you say, do they seem more balanced now?
#6

nytcrawlr

Nov 10, 2005 10:10:44 		Yeah, Kam is the man with the master plan when it comes to balancing out any sort of equipment pricing.

As for the poisons, good job Meth! I'm glad someone was able to get something like this out, always thought there weren't enough poisons in the core rules.

The prices look good too, but I'm not a big balance guru in this area.
#7

Kamelion

Nov 10, 2005 10:54:10
Guess those price are alright since nobody has anything to say against them. :P

Kam, what do you say, do they seem more balanced now?

:embarrass
I haven't actually had the time to look at them since you posted them. I am madly busy the latter half of this week with some other athas.org projects and have only really been idling here on the boards. I'd like to sit down and compare your list to the stuff in the DMG when I am done with my current assignment, though, so I'll have some feedback for you this weekend, most likely.
#8

Kamelion

Nov 10, 2005 10:59:13
Yeah, Kam is the man with the master plan when it comes to balancing out any sort of equipment pricing.

As for the poisons, good job Meth! I'm glad someone was able to get something like this out, always thought there weren't enough poisons in the core rules.

The prices look good too, but I'm not a big balance guru in this area.

:D
Heh, actually, I put the list together with prices from the poison calculator on Gab's site. Meth then took the list and balanced those prices, as some of them seemed a bit off in places. Thanks for the nice compliments and all, but in this case they should probably be swapped over... ;)
#9

kalthandrix

Nov 10, 2005 11:17:56 		Really nice work Methvezem- I have no excuse for not commenting previously- I read it over but did not post anything.

If you want I could repost the chart so all of the columns are lined up to make amends for my transgression !
#10

kalthandrix

Nov 10, 2005 11:27:49 		Oops
#11

nytcrawlr

Nov 10, 2005 11:34:36 		Still a bit off, but nothing you can do about that. Tables don't seem to post well to the forums.

#12

kalthandrix

Nov 10, 2005 11:55:23 		Actually I accidently hit the submit button- I almost have it formatted
#13

nytcrawlr

Nov 10, 2005 12:03:16
Actually I accidently hit the submit button- I almost have it formatted

Sweet.
#14

kalthandrix

Nov 10, 2005 12:16:46 		Ooops again- sorry
#15

nytcrawlr

Nov 10, 2005 12:22:54 		Much better.

#16

kalthandrix

Nov 10, 2005 12:29:20 		Here is the version with everything lined up.

[b][u]Name[/u][/b] [b][u]Type[/u][/b] [b][u]DC[/u][/b] [b][u]Primary/Secondary Damage[/u][/b] [b][u]Cost(Cp)[/u] [/b] <br /> Antloid, Archer Contact DC 16 2d6 Con/ na 210<br /> Beetle, Dragon* Contact DC 12 2d6 Con/ 2d6 Con 175<br /> Mulworm Contact DC 10 2d6 Dex/ 1d6 Con 120<br /> <br /> Kivit Ingested DC 10 1d3 Con/ 1d3 Con 90<br /> Mulworm Ingested DC 12 1d6 Con/ 1d6 Con 125<br /> Tree of Death Fruit Ingested DC 22 4d6 Con/ 4d6 Con 6,000 <br /> <br /> Fordorran Inhaled DC 16 2d6 Dex/ 3d6 Dex 3,500<br /> Gaj Inhaled DC 16 1d4 Con and naus. 1 rnd/ na 175<br /> Jalath&#8217;gak Inhaled DC 16 p. 2d6 rnds/ na 100<br /> Jalath&#8217;gak, Giant Inhaled DC 21 p.3d6 rnd/ na 150<br /> Poisonweed Inhaled DC 21 un. 2d6 min/ un.2d6 min 210<br /> <br /> Antloid, Infantry Injury DC 16 2d6 Con/ na 210<br /> Assassin Bug Injury DC 10 1d3 Dex/ 1d3 Dex 100<br /> Blight Injury DC 10 p.2d6 min./ p. 2d6 min 90<br /> Bloodgrass (plains) Injury DC 13 1d6 Dex/ p. 2d6 rds. 350<br /> Bloodgrass (jungle) Injury DC 19 1d6 Dex/ p. 2d6 rds. 600<br /> Blossomkiller Injury DC 17 1d6 Dex/ un. 2-20 min. 500<br /> Boneclaw, Lesser Injury DC 10 1d6 Con/ 1d6 Con 100<br /> Cactus, Hunting Injury DC 14 p.1 min/ p.1d4+2 rds 75<br /> Cactus, Spider Injury DC 12 p.2d4 rds/ na 50<br /> Cha'thrang Injury DC 18 1 Str/ 2d6 Str 300<br /> Cistern Fiend Injury DC 25 1d6 Dex/ 2d6 Dex 2,700 <br /> Drik, High Injury DC 18 2d6 Con/ 1d6 Con 275<br /> Dune Freak Injury DC 14 1 Str/ 1d6 Str. 120<br /> Dust Glider Injury DC 13 1d4 Str/ 1d4 Str 140<br /> Floater Injury DC 13 p.2d6 min/ na 50<br /> Golem, Chitin Injury DC 15 1d4 Str/ 1d4 Str 160 <br /> Hej-Kin Injury DC 11 1 Con./ 1 Con 80<br /> Jankx Injury DC 11 1d6 Str/ 2d6 Dex 100<br /> Kank, Soldier Injury DC 13 1d6 Str/ 1d6 Str 120<br /> Mastyrial, Black Injury DC 16 2d6 Dex/ 1d6 Str 240<br /> Mastyrial, Desert Injury DC 18 1d6 Con/ 1d6 Con 210<br /> Mulworm Injury DC 12 1d6 Con/ 1d6 Con 125<br /> Psionocus Injury DC 13 sleep 1 min plus drain PP/ <br /> sleep 5d6 min plus drain PP. 150<br /> Puddingfish Injury DC 21 p.1 min./ p. 2d4 rds. 125<br /> Pulp Bee Injury DC 14 1d4 Dex/ 1d4 Dex 150<br /> Scarlet Warden Injury DC 21 1d6 Con/ 1d6 Con 700<br /> Scorpion, Barbed Injury DC 17 1d4 Con/ 1d4 Con 180<br /> Scorpion, Gold Injury DC 12 1d6 Str/ 1d4 Str 120<br /> Silk Wyrm Injury DC 18 1d4 Str / p. 1d4 days. 250<br /> Silt Horror, Black Injury DC 14 p.1 min./ p.1d6 rds 90<br /> Silt Horror, Red Injury DC 17 p. 2d6 rds/ p.2d6 rnds 120<br /> Silt Serpent Injury DC 10 1d6 Str/ 1d6 Con 110<br /> Silt Serpent, Giant Injury DC 13 2d4 Str/ 2d4 Con 375<br /> Silt S., Giant (imm.) Injury DC 15 2d4 Str/ 2d4 Con 450<br /> Spider, Crystal Injury DC 17 1d6 Con/ 1d6 Con 200<br /> Spider, Dark Defiler Injury DC 13 1d6 Con/ na 110<br /> Spider, Dark Psion Injury DC 14 1d6 Con/ na 120<br /> Spider, Dark Queen Injury DC 19 1d6 Con/ 2d6 Con 1,600<br /> Spider, Dark Warrior Injury DC 15 1d6 Con/ na 130<br /> Spider, Mountain Injury DC 15 p. 2d12 min./ p. 2d12 min. 250<br /> Spider, Silt Injury DC 13 p.2d6 min./ p. 2d6 mins. 120<br /> S'thag Zagath Injury DC 21 1d4 Dex/ p.1 min 800<br /> Thri-Kreen Injury DC 11 p. 2d6 min/ p.2d6 min. 100<br /> Trin Injury DC 13 p. 2d6 min/ p.2d6 min. 120<br /> Wall Walker Injury DC 14 p.1d6 rds/ na 60 <br /> Wezer, Soldier Injury DC 13 un.1 min/ un. 2d4 days 180<br /> Zik-trin&#8217;ak Injury DC 17 p.2d6 min/ p. 2d6 min 200<br /> Zik-trin&#8217;ta Injury DC 15 p. 2d6 min/ 2d6 Cost 500<br /> <br /> *Only effective against dray and dragons.<br /> p. : paralysis<br /> un : unconsciousness
#17

Sysane

Nov 10, 2005 12:37:11 		How about a craft DC for each poison type? Maybe not feasible for this, but what about for man made poison types?
#18

nytcrawlr

Nov 10, 2005 12:43:35
:D
Heh, actually, I put the list together with prices from the poison calculator on Gab's site. Meth then took the list and balanced those prices, as some of them seemed a bit off in places. Thanks for the nice compliments and all, but in this case they should probably be swapped over... ;)

Ok...my bad, heh. :embarrass

Good job on the prices Meth!
#19

Pennarin

Nov 10, 2005 14:24:00 		That's what I wonder about poisons: do natural poisons, those extracted from poison sacks, for example, require a Craft check at all? I presume that anything else that requires of a character to mix and add or heat up or whatever, will require a Craft check.

Maybe Jon could tell me since he's dabbled with poisons before though his Poisonmaster PrC.
#20

Sysane

Nov 10, 2005 14:29:45
That's what I wonder about poisons: do natural poisons, those extracted from poison sacks, for example, require a Craft check at all? I presume that anything else that requires of a character to mix and add or heat up or whatever, will require a Craft check.

Maybe Jon could tell me since he's dabbled with poisons before though his Poisonmaster PrC.

I'd still think that it would require some sort of skill check in order for the character effective extract the poison so it doesn't lose its potency.
#21

nytcrawlr

Nov 10, 2005 14:36:45
I'd still think that it would require some sort of skill check in order for the character effective extract the poison so it doesn't lose its potency.

Probably Knowledge (Monster) with synergy bonuses from Craft sort of check.

In the official case it would be Knowledge (Nature) since the Knowledge skill doesn't break down more than it should IMO.
#22

methvezem

Nov 10, 2005 23:32:47 		Thanks all for the good comments! :D

Like I said in the first post, the original compilation is from Kam, I ''merely'' compared the various strenght of the poisons with those already found in the DMG to come with somewhat balanced price.

Thanks Kal for the new, aligned table. Your forgiven.

As NytCrawlr said, I too think that Knowledge (nature) is the applicable skill for someone who wish to 'milk' a creature of its poison or harvest the glands from a dead one. I think I'll give it a try to give a try and put DC where applicable, so that bard have some real athasian poison to use.
#23

zombiegleemax

Nov 11, 2005 10:58:23 		Great job, Meth, and thank you Kal for lining things up

I agree for a Knowledge(Nature) check to harvest poison from beasties.
A comprehensive listing of the craft(poison) DC's would also nicely complete this list IMO.

Thanks again!
#24

Pennarin

Nov 15, 2005 16:55:49 		So i'm to understand you guys want one check to be made relative to obtaining poison: a Knowledge (nature) check to harvest any natural poison.

But what about the Craft (poisonmaking) skill? What is its use?
#25

methvezem

Nov 15, 2005 23:22:29
So i'm to understand you guys want one check to be made relative to obtaining poison: a Knowledge (nature) check to harvest any natural poison.

But what about the Craft (poisonmaking) skill? What is its use?

I'd say that Knowledge (nature) is used for natural poison that are harvested from creatures and used as is. Like those found on the list above.

Craft (poisonmaking) should be used for special poisons or poisons derived from natural sources, like the bugdead kank broy and the concentrated kivit musk.
#26

kalthandrix

Nov 16, 2005 6:25:49
I'd say that Knowledge (nature) is used for natural poison that are harvested from creatures and used as is. Like those found on the list above.

Craft (poisonmaking) should be used for special poisons or poisons derived from natural sources, like the bugdead kank broy and the concentrated kivit musk.

I agree with Meth- man-made craft (poisonmaking), harvesting from critter knowledge (nature)- I think that the latters DC should be like 15+ creatures HD because the higher the HD the more potent the venom is usually so they need to take additional care to not poison themselves.

Meth- if you come up with the DCs e-mail me them and I will add them to the chart if you would like- I believe you have my gmail address but if not PM me and I will send it to you.
#27

methvezem

Nov 16, 2005 7:00:10
Meth- if you come up with the DCs e-mail me them and I will add them to the chart if you would like- I believe you have my gmail address but if not PM me and I will send it to you.

Thanks for the offer Kal, I'm currently working on these. :D
#28

Pennarin

Nov 16, 2005 13:32:27 		Reading Jon's poisonmaster PrC, it keeps refering to "manufacturing a poison" in several of its abilities, and has the Craft (poisonmaking) skill as a prerequisite.

Jon, can you tell me how you see the interaction of skill checks with the utilization/creation of poisons?

Should all poisons be considered to be manufactured, and require a Craft check, or only some poisons? Where would those poisons be? What about harvesting? Is that worth mentionning at all? Would one check be required to harvest the poison, and one check to "create" ? All current poisons are ToA/TotDL creature poisons, thus extracted. Yes, the kivit poison can be enhanced into a more potent form by a druid, but the entry says there is a creation DC (no specific skill mentionned) that needs to be made to successfuly create the enhanced version. Could the enhanced kivit poison actually be the only poison that can be manufactured?
#29

jon_oracle_of_athas

Nov 16, 2005 15:28:20 		Craft (poisonmaking) is used to create a poison from scratch using raw materials - just as any other Craft check. All poisons can be crafted unless the DM rules otherwise. I don't think we got as far as individual poison Craft DCs, but there are some poison rules in d20 Modern we were considering using (I haven't seen them myself). I would say Knowledge (Nature) would give a +2 synergy bonus.

I have deliberately avoided poison extraction rules, since they are a special case which some DMs allow and others don't, and because they're a difficult area. Now that you have me cornered, I'd say you would use Knowledge (Nature) for extracting poisons, with a +2 synergy bonus from Craft (poisonmaking). As for DCs for both extraction and creation, I'll make a tentative rule on the fly and set the DC equal to the poison's save DC +5.
#30

Pennarin

Nov 16, 2005 16:29:51 		This is of great help, Jon. Thanks for the info.

Btw, the "proper" way of using the words are...
Craft (poisonmaking)
Profession (poisonmaker)

;)
#31

Sysane

Nov 16, 2005 16:34:46 		The 3.0 Arms & Equipment Guide had prices and save DCs for more poisons. I think it even had craft DCs for man made poison. Might be worth checking that out. That is if you already haven't done so.
#32

dirk00001

Mar 17, 2006 18:47:08 		I just flipped through the A&C Guide, and yup, it's got Craft DCs for all of the poisons from the DMG (well...the 3.0 DMG at least, haven't done a comparison yet) as well as rules regarding how to Craft works w/ poisons - you don't convert from gold to silver, for one, and if the raw materials are "readily available" (i.e. harvested from a creature, as has been discussed) then it costs 1/6th the market price to make, otherwise it's 3/4ths and difficult to find the components (These rules are basically a recap from the Song and Silence book).

(Methvezem: check your PMs please)