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The first giants on athas...

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
master_ivan
Nov 18, 2005 18:54:27 I have a question. If Jo'orsh and Sa'ram where the first giants, how come Dregoth was sent to the Cleansing Wars as the Ravager of Giants to kill all the giants??? Because the first giants, Jo'orsh and Sa'ram, came after the CWs....do you understand my troubles on this one?
#2
zombiegleemax
Nov 18, 2005 19:27:23 i think that was the title that THEY assumed when they came to the giants with the Dark Lens. basically, the made themselves out to be Gods of some type in order to get the Giants to protect the holy artifact or "Oracle" as they referred to it. so they weren't literally the first giants on Athas, they merely assumed that role to hide the Lens. IIRC.
#3
Pennarin
Nov 19, 2005 15:53:17 Ahh, newbie! :D

Dark Sun Forum Archive: Inconsistency #5: A planet where Giants evolved from Dwarves?!
#4
Pennarin
Nov 19, 2005 16:01:16 Jo'orsh and Sa'ram are the fathers of the two clans of giants found in that particular region of the Sea of Silt, and as such are the first giants for those people. Giants exist elsewhere, and existed there before Jo'orsh and Sa'ram came. (Beast-headed giants existed before Jo'orsh and Sa'ram created the magical mechanism that allowed the giants to transform themselves into beast-headed giants: a race of lion-headed giants existed before. All that this means is that the Pristine Tower transformed Jo'orsh and Sa'ram into a race that already existed, and that Jo'orsh and Sa'ram developed a magical mechanism that allows normal giants to become another type of giant that already exists.)
#5
master_ivan
Nov 19, 2005 19:39:38 Thank you Pen, I don't know what I would do without you ;)

And this theory right there:

I don't have the books on me presently, but the two dwarves (Jo'orsh and Sa'ram) formed two different camps of giants. One was the beasthead giants. The other camp were just normal giants. One side revered Jo'orsh and the other revered Sa'ram. These two dwarves stood guard as banshees over the Dark Lens (which the giants called the Obsidian Oracle) until the events that transpired at the end of OO. (Jo'orsh and Sa'ram were exceptional banshees; they looked nothing like the skinless dwarves that typical banshees looked like)

and BTW, the beastheads are essentially the same as normal giants, except that they have learned a ritual that harnessess the power of the dark lens to replace their own heads with the head of an animal companion. Their old giant heads are kept in a crystalline pit where they go mad after years of imprisonment. Sometimes the Beastheads throw prisoners into the pit, and the disembodied heads suck the life force out of them. Its also implied that the bodies of the animals are thrown into the pit as well, where they stay at the bottom as skeletal monsters that the heads don't dare go near.

Without the oracle in their possession after the events of the PP, it is unclear what will become of the beasthead giants... I havent finished the last book of the PP yet, it may be explained there.

In actuality, Beasthead is probably more of a PrC for giants than an actual race. The OO doesn't say anything about the other giants of athas (desert giants etc) other than Jo'orsh and Sa'ram were the first giants. I think that may have been from the perspective of the Joorsh and Saram giants... The other giants may have been around long before.

Is really good. And I haven't read "The city by the Silt Sea" yet, but the comments on that gave me a good picture also, with Dregoth and Guistenal. Thank you VERY much! This comes really good for my green age campaign....
#6
kalthandrix
Nov 20, 2005 7:22:22 I is disturbing to thing that the two dwarves were ever able to become the originators of any race of giants- their being dwarves aside- they were both male!!!

Thats just wrong dude!

Personally my take on the whole issue is that these two dwarves had in their possession probably the most powerful psionic artifact on the face of Athas- so they used the Dark Lens to enslave the giants they found there to aid them in hiding the item and over the years the story of how they came to be there was twisted (as all legands do) and the minds of the undead dwarves were also warped due to their undead nature and the influence of the Dark Lens.
#7
master_ivan
Nov 21, 2005 17:03:32
I is disturbing to thing that the two dwarves were ever able to become the originators of any race of giants- their being dwarves aside- they were both male!!!

Thats just wrong dude!

Maybe they were shemales
#8
Pennarin
Nov 21, 2005 17:34:50 It goes to say that, even though the dwarven knights were transformed into giants, or giant-like beings, that they are not the literal progenitors of the two clans of giants of that region of the Silt Sea. Rather their presence attracted other pre-existing giants to their location and that's where that civilization (if we can call it that) started, and the myth originated.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 master_ivan Nov 18, 2005 18:54:27	I have a question. If Jo'orsh and Sa'ram where the first giants, how come Dregoth was sent to the Cleansing Wars as the Ravager of Giants to kill all the giants??? Because the first giants, Jo'orsh and Sa'ram, came after the CWs....do you understand my troubles on this one?
#2 zombiegleemax Nov 18, 2005 19:27:23	i think that was the title that THEY assumed when they came to the giants with the Dark Lens. basically, the made themselves out to be Gods of some type in order to get the Giants to protect the holy artifact or "Oracle" as they referred to it. so they weren't literally the first giants on Athas, they merely assumed that role to hide the Lens. IIRC.
#3 Pennarin Nov 19, 2005 15:53:17	Ahh, newbie! :D Dark Sun Forum Archive: Inconsistency #5: A planet where Giants evolved from Dwarves?!
#4 Pennarin Nov 19, 2005 16:01:16	Jo'orsh and Sa'ram are the fathers of the two clans of giants found in that particular region of the Sea of Silt, and as such are the first giants for those people. Giants exist elsewhere, and existed there before Jo'orsh and Sa'ram came. (Beast-headed giants existed before Jo'orsh and Sa'ram created the magical mechanism that allowed the giants to transform themselves into beast-headed giants: a race of lion-headed giants existed before. All that this means is that the Pristine Tower transformed Jo'orsh and Sa'ram into a race that already existed, and that Jo'orsh and Sa'ram developed a magical mechanism that allows normal giants to become another type of giant that already exists.)
#5 master_ivan Nov 19, 2005 19:39:38	Thank you Pen, I don't know what I would do without you ;) And this theory right there: I don't have the books on me presently, but the two dwarves (Jo'orsh and Sa'ram) formed two different camps of giants. One was the beasthead giants. The other camp were just normal giants. One side revered Jo'orsh and the other revered Sa'ram. These two dwarves stood guard as banshees over the Dark Lens (which the giants called the Obsidian Oracle) until the events that transpired at the end of OO. (Jo'orsh and Sa'ram were exceptional banshees; they looked nothing like the skinless dwarves that typical banshees looked like) and BTW, the beastheads are essentially the same as normal giants, except that they have learned a ritual that harnessess the power of the dark lens to replace their own heads with the head of an animal companion. Their old giant heads are kept in a crystalline pit where they go mad after years of imprisonment. Sometimes the Beastheads throw prisoners into the pit, and the disembodied heads suck the life force out of them. Its also implied that the bodies of the animals are thrown into the pit as well, where they stay at the bottom as skeletal monsters that the heads don't dare go near. Without the oracle in their possession after the events of the PP, it is unclear what will become of the beasthead giants... I havent finished the last book of the PP yet, it may be explained there. In actuality, Beasthead is probably more of a PrC for giants than an actual race. The OO doesn't say anything about the other giants of athas (desert giants etc) other than Jo'orsh and Sa'ram were the first giants. I think that may have been from the perspective of the Joorsh and Saram giants... The other giants may have been around long before. Is really good. And I haven't read "The city by the Silt Sea" yet, but the comments on that gave me a good picture also, with Dregoth and Guistenal. Thank you VERY much! This comes really good for my green age campaign....
#6 kalthandrix Nov 20, 2005 7:22:22	I is disturbing to thing that the two dwarves were ever able to become the originators of any race of giants- their being dwarves aside- they were both male!!! Thats just wrong dude! Personally my take on the whole issue is that these two dwarves had in their possession probably the most powerful psionic artifact on the face of Athas- so they used the Dark Lens to enslave the giants they found there to aid them in hiding the item and over the years the story of how they came to be there was twisted (as all legands do) and the minds of the undead dwarves were also warped due to their undead nature and the influence of the Dark Lens.
#7 master_ivan Nov 21, 2005 17:03:32	I is disturbing to thing that the two dwarves were ever able to become the originators of any race of giants- their being dwarves aside- they were both male!!! Thats just wrong dude! Maybe they were shemales
#8 Pennarin Nov 21, 2005 17:34:50	It goes to say that, even though the dwarven knights were transformed into giants, or giant-like beings, that they are not the literal progenitors of the two clans of giants of that region of the Silt Sea. Rather their presence attracted other pre-existing giants to their location and that's where that civilization (if we can call it that) started, and the myth originated.