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Elemental dragons and avangions

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Nov 18, 2005 18:55:21 You know you have dragons and avangions, nominally for defilers and preservers respectively. I was thinking that maybe there should be 2 similar opotions for advanced being paraelemental and elemental clerics respectively.

Dragons suck life while avangions preserve it. Advanced paraelementals should upset the elemental balance while the elementals should seek to restore it.

Alternately, the progression as an advanced being elemental could just have points in the transformation where they "take stage-1 ability from the chosen elemental list on table XX-Y" and the abilities are unique to each of the 8 elemental options.

just some thoughts.
#2
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Nov 18, 2005 19:37:03 There already is elemental/paraelemental cleric Advanced Beings. There's also druid Advanced Beings.

Clerics become "Elementals" (I personally wish there was a better name for this), while Druids become Spirits of the Land.
#3
Sysane
Nov 18, 2005 19:50:41
Clerics become "Elementals" (I personally wish there was a better name for this), while Druids become Spirits of the Land.

Primordials or Primordial Paragons? Just some random alternitive names.
#4
zombiegleemax
Nov 18, 2005 20:21:11 No no no no no, that's not what i mean. I know there are advanced elemental beings and spirits of the land. My point was that advanced elementals are just kinda . . . boring.

With arcane magic, you have the dichotomy between preservers and defilers. One sucks life, the other doesn't (or sucks very little). Druids and the spirits of the land, that's all fine and dandy. With elemental magic, you have another dichotomy between the paraelementals and the elementals. So instead of them both essentially becoming the same thing with nothing more than a cosmetic change, I was thinking why not have a similar shift in advanced beings as occurs with the arcane options. The paraelementals becoming advanced beings similar (thematically) to dragons, while the regular elementals becoming something (again, thematically) similar to avangions.

The elements are a huge factor on athas (or the unbalance of them is), and having the regular elemental advanced beings being forces for preserving the balance of elemental nature while the paraelementals are forces for offsetting the balance to their own benefit, it would be nice.

In olde style dark sun, the elemental advanced beings weren't really more than a drawn out polymorph spell. The dragon and avangion transformations were much more than that, and the dragon process (so far) has captured the right feel. The 3.5 advanced elementals should capture a similar feeling of awesome transformation and not just simply be another "ok, you can shape change into an elemental now, enjoy it" spin.

One effect that would be interesting would have the advanced being eventually transform into a mobile gate to their new-native plane, with a twist. Paraelementals draw more of their matter into athas (magmas draw forth magma from the ground wherever they go, rains are surrounded by a constant rain storm, silts are surrounded by a constant choking silt storm, suns are surrounded by dazzling light and blistering heat) while the regulars repair damage on athas (earths rejuvenate the ground and make old brittle stone not so blasted and wasted, winds act as giant air filters, surrounded by strong breezes of pure and clear air, fires are surrounded by random outbursts of flame that die out leaving nutrient- and life-rich ashes behind ripe for new growth, and waters act like magmas drawing out water from the ground and air with everything around them damp and collecting moisture).

The idea is that the greedy and upstart paraelementals want more and more of their own elemental substance and consume others to get it, while the old elements are constanting seeking a return to the perfect balance between them all.

Of course a couple don't seem to fit. Rain seems helpful while fire seems destructive. But a constant severe rainstorm erodes the earth, chokes the air with drowning rain and turns life-giving water into something cold and freezing and harmful. Now if it rains and then stops, that's good and helps the land. But if it never stops raining, everything turns to muck and it's not possible to survive. Add in lightning discharges and flash floods, and it's not happy.

Fire on the other hand, actually serves a good function. It clears old growth and paves the way for new growth. The land is burned down in what can be very destructive, but when it is over, the ash-laden earth is very nutrient rich and ready to be reborn. So in moderation (something the old elements know, but the paras dont care about), fire is good and helpful and integral to the process of nature.

Yeah.
#5
ruhl-than_sage
Nov 18, 2005 21:34:02
One effect that would be interesting would have the advanced being eventually transform into a mobile gate to their new-native plane, with a twist. Paraelementals draw more of their matter into athas (magmas draw forth magma from the ground wherever they go, rains are surrounded by a constant rain storm, silts are surrounded by a constant choking silt storm, suns are surrounded by dazzling light and blistering heat) while the regulars repair damage on athas (earths rejuvenate the ground and make old brittle stone not so blasted and wasted, winds act as giant air filters, surrounded by strong breezes of pure and clear air, fires are surrounded by random outbursts of flame that die out leaving nutrient- and life-rich ashes behind ripe for new growth, and waters act like magmas drawing out water from the ground and air with everything around them damp and collecting moisture).

The idea is that the greedy and upstart paraelementals want more and more of their own elemental substance and consume others to get it, while the old elements are constanting seeking a return to the perfect balance between them all.

Of course a couple don't seem to fit. Rain seems helpful while fire seems destructive. But a constant severe rainstorm erodes the earth, chokes the air with drowning rain and turns life-giving water into something cold and freezing and harmful. Now if it rains and then stops, that's good and helps the land. But if it never stops raining, everything turns to muck and it's not possible to survive. Add in lightning discharges and flash floods, and it's not happy.

Fire on the other hand, actually serves a good function. It clears old growth and paves the way for new growth. The land is burned down in what can be very destructive, but when it is over, the ash-laden earth is very nutrient rich and ready to be reborn. So in moderation (something the old elements know, but the paras dont care about), fire is good and helpful and integral to the process of nature.

Yeah.

This is definately good stuff. I think that the types of powers that an (para)elemental advanced being can get should be expansive. Obviously just turning into and elemental isn't dramatic enough or interesting enough. They have to tranform into really cool elementals with interesting powers and unique appearances. I've been reading the recentlly released "Magic of Eberron" and there is a lot of good inspiration for all things elemental in there. The elemental grafts are particularly interesting.
#6
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Nov 18, 2005 22:16:22 Well, I guess it depends on what you view as boring. There wasn't much development on the cleric and druid advanced beings. Personally, I wouldn't might beefing them up a bit, and as the Epic Bureau is planning on making all the advanced beings be more balanced -- so expect some fun improvements (hopefully) when it's the divine advanced beings' turns.

But also bear in mind -- the general schism between the two (arcane & divine advanced beings), well in my view at least, is that an arcane advanced being generally is achieving the process through their own work completely, while the divine ones are somewhat granted the power to achieve the advanced being state through whatever is the source of their power. This can result in some differences in the approach and the developmental processes for elementals and spirits of the land from what we're doing for dragons and avangions.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Nov 18, 2005 18:55:21	You know you have dragons and avangions, nominally for defilers and preservers respectively. I was thinking that maybe there should be 2 similar opotions for advanced being paraelemental and elemental clerics respectively. Dragons suck life while avangions preserve it. Advanced paraelementals should upset the elemental balance while the elementals should seek to restore it. Alternately, the progression as an advanced being elemental could just have points in the transformation where they "take stage-1 ability from the chosen elemental list on table XX-Y" and the abilities are unique to each of the 8 elemental options. just some thoughts.
#2 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Nov 18, 2005 19:37:03	There already is elemental/paraelemental cleric Advanced Beings. There's also druid Advanced Beings. Clerics become "Elementals" (I personally wish there was a better name for this), while Druids become Spirits of the Land.
#3 Sysane Nov 18, 2005 19:50:41	Clerics become "Elementals" (I personally wish there was a better name for this), while Druids become Spirits of the Land. Primordials or Primordial Paragons? Just some random alternitive names.
#4 zombiegleemax Nov 18, 2005 20:21:11	No no no no no, that's not what i mean. I know there are advanced elemental beings and spirits of the land. My point was that advanced elementals are just kinda . . . boring. With arcane magic, you have the dichotomy between preservers and defilers. One sucks life, the other doesn't (or sucks very little). Druids and the spirits of the land, that's all fine and dandy. With elemental magic, you have another dichotomy between the paraelementals and the elementals. So instead of them both essentially becoming the same thing with nothing more than a cosmetic change, I was thinking why not have a similar shift in advanced beings as occurs with the arcane options. The paraelementals becoming advanced beings similar (thematically) to dragons, while the regular elementals becoming something (again, thematically) similar to avangions. The elements are a huge factor on athas (or the unbalance of them is), and having the regular elemental advanced beings being forces for preserving the balance of elemental nature while the paraelementals are forces for offsetting the balance to their own benefit, it would be nice. In olde style dark sun, the elemental advanced beings weren't really more than a drawn out polymorph spell. The dragon and avangion transformations were much more than that, and the dragon process (so far) has captured the right feel. The 3.5 advanced elementals should capture a similar feeling of awesome transformation and not just simply be another "ok, you can shape change into an elemental now, enjoy it" spin. One effect that would be interesting would have the advanced being eventually transform into a mobile gate to their new-native plane, with a twist. Paraelementals draw more of their matter into athas (magmas draw forth magma from the ground wherever they go, rains are surrounded by a constant rain storm, silts are surrounded by a constant choking silt storm, suns are surrounded by dazzling light and blistering heat) while the regulars repair damage on athas (earths rejuvenate the ground and make old brittle stone not so blasted and wasted, winds act as giant air filters, surrounded by strong breezes of pure and clear air, fires are surrounded by random outbursts of flame that die out leaving nutrient- and life-rich ashes behind ripe for new growth, and waters act like magmas drawing out water from the ground and air with everything around them damp and collecting moisture). The idea is that the greedy and upstart paraelementals want more and more of their own elemental substance and consume others to get it, while the old elements are constanting seeking a return to the perfect balance between them all. Of course a couple don't seem to fit. Rain seems helpful while fire seems destructive. But a constant severe rainstorm erodes the earth, chokes the air with drowning rain and turns life-giving water into something cold and freezing and harmful. Now if it rains and then stops, that's good and helps the land. But if it never stops raining, everything turns to muck and it's not possible to survive. Add in lightning discharges and flash floods, and it's not happy. Fire on the other hand, actually serves a good function. It clears old growth and paves the way for new growth. The land is burned down in what can be very destructive, but when it is over, the ash-laden earth is very nutrient rich and ready to be reborn. So in moderation (something the old elements know, but the paras dont care about), fire is good and helpful and integral to the process of nature. Yeah.
#5 ruhl-than_sage Nov 18, 2005 21:34:02	One effect that would be interesting would have the advanced being eventually transform into a mobile gate to their new-native plane, with a twist. Paraelementals draw more of their matter into athas (magmas draw forth magma from the ground wherever they go, rains are surrounded by a constant rain storm, silts are surrounded by a constant choking silt storm, suns are surrounded by dazzling light and blistering heat) while the regulars repair damage on athas (earths rejuvenate the ground and make old brittle stone not so blasted and wasted, winds act as giant air filters, surrounded by strong breezes of pure and clear air, fires are surrounded by random outbursts of flame that die out leaving nutrient- and life-rich ashes behind ripe for new growth, and waters act like magmas drawing out water from the ground and air with everything around them damp and collecting moisture). The idea is that the greedy and upstart paraelementals want more and more of their own elemental substance and consume others to get it, while the old elements are constanting seeking a return to the perfect balance between them all. Of course a couple don't seem to fit. Rain seems helpful while fire seems destructive. But a constant severe rainstorm erodes the earth, chokes the air with drowning rain and turns life-giving water into something cold and freezing and harmful. Now if it rains and then stops, that's good and helps the land. But if it never stops raining, everything turns to muck and it's not possible to survive. Add in lightning discharges and flash floods, and it's not happy. Fire on the other hand, actually serves a good function. It clears old growth and paves the way for new growth. The land is burned down in what can be very destructive, but when it is over, the ash-laden earth is very nutrient rich and ready to be reborn. So in moderation (something the old elements know, but the paras dont care about), fire is good and helpful and integral to the process of nature. Yeah. This is definately good stuff. I think that the types of powers that an (para)elemental advanced being can get should be expansive. Obviously just turning into and elemental isn't dramatic enough or interesting enough. They have to tranform into really cool elementals with interesting powers and unique appearances. I've been reading the recentlly released "Magic of Eberron" and there is a lot of good inspiration for all things elemental in there. The elemental grafts are particularly interesting.
#6 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Nov 18, 2005 22:16:22	Well, I guess it depends on what you view as boring. There wasn't much development on the cleric and druid advanced beings. Personally, I wouldn't might beefing them up a bit, and as the Epic Bureau is planning on making all the advanced beings be more balanced -- so expect some fun improvements (hopefully) when it's the divine advanced beings' turns. But also bear in mind -- the general schism between the two (arcane & divine advanced beings), well in my view at least, is that an arcane advanced being generally is achieving the process through their own work completely, while the divine ones are somewhat granted the power to achieve the advanced being state through whatever is the source of their power. This can result in some differences in the approach and the developmental processes for elementals and spirits of the land from what we're doing for dragons and avangions.