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Templars and new Spells

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
leiff
Jan 05, 2006 15:03:55 I'm curious how would a GM add new spells to a templar's spell list, from books with a new source of spells (Such as Spell Compendium etc..)? I'm wondering if there were any criteria for a spell to be on the templar list.

One of my players in a darksun game that I'm running is a templar and since I have access to many more books past the core I wouldn't want to jip him with spells.
#2
Zardnaar
Jan 05, 2006 16:08:42 I would rule any cleric spell is a contender for the templar spell list unless it has the following.

1. Specific references to a Deity. This includes the Weapon of the Deity spell, Visage of the Deity etc.

2. Its not to elemental based. Another spell like flamestrike is fine. Something that summons elementals no.

3. It doesn't conrtradict the DS theme. Frostburn and Draconomicon may not be the best books to convince the DM to draw spells from.

Apart from that I would use a case by case basis.
#3
ruhl-than_sage
Jan 05, 2006 17:47:14 Consider the roles of templars: He is an enforcer of the law, a representative of his king/queen, a city administrator, and an high ranking officer in the army.
Any sort of spells that would be appropriate for these roles would be the most likely canidates for adding to the templar spell lists.

Something just occured to me. Has anyone ever thought of giving templars a domain based on their SK? The idea probably isn't appropriate for the rank and file templar, but would be great for the various Templar PrCs!
#4
Kamelion
Jan 05, 2006 19:36:41
Has anyone ever thought of giving templars a domain based on their SK? The idea probably isn't appropriate for the rank and file templar, but would be great for the various Templar PrCs!

That would be a cool feature for a templar prestige class. There could, for example, be a 5-level prestige class that concentrated on enhancing a templar's spellcasting powers, for example. A domain linked to the templar's SK would be a great addition to a class like that.

I had also considered the idea of giving each templarate a separate set of assigned spells, again inspired by their respective SKs. Combined with the work being done on another thread regarding region-specific weapons, this could really allow each city's templars to have clear mechanical differences to each other, in addition to the fluff differences.

Hmm, in fact substitution levels specific to each templarate might be a really good way to add individual character to each city's templars. Something to work on, perhaps, once I get that epic spell cast that gives me an extra 10 hours in the day... ;)
#5
kalthandrix
Jan 05, 2006 21:11:50 The only problem I might have expanding the templar spell list is the fact that the spells are granted directly by the SK's- and they are not really ones to share power too well- which would be why I really doubt there are few if any Epic Templars (I would argue that Dregoths long-lived buddy might be the only exception).
#6
jon_oracle_of_athas
Jan 06, 2006 10:20:46
Something just occured to me. Has anyone ever thought of giving templars a domain based on their SK? The idea probably isn't appropriate for the rank and file templar, but would be great for the various Templar PrCs!

Paizo thought about that when they made templars clerics and assigned domains to the various Sorcerer Monarchs. As for integrating this concept with the prestige classes, that has to be balanced with other class features. The Wife of Nibenay gets bonus spells known that infer "knowledge", reflecting Nibenay's scholarly nature.
#7
ruhl-than_sage
Jan 06, 2006 14:09:55
I had also considered the idea of giving each templarate a separate set of assigned spells, again inspired by their respective SKs. Combined with the work being done on another thread regarding region-specific weapons, this could really allow each city's templars to have clear mechanical differences to each other, in addition to the fluff differences.

Hmm, in fact substitution levels specific to each templarate might be a really good way to add individual character to each city's templars. Something to work on, perhaps, once I get that epic spell cast that gives me an extra 10 hours in the day... ;)

Since the spells are "assigned" , I would think that they could assign whichever spells they wanted to to their templars. In fact they could probably assign different spells to different Templars if they wanted to. But anyway, thats a good idea. Those assigned spells could potenially even include spells that other templars don't have acess to taking the place of the domain idea.
#8
ruhl-than_sage
Jan 06, 2006 14:13:19
The only problem I might have expanding the templar spell list is the fact that the spells are granted directly by the SK's- and they are not really ones to share power too well- which would be why I really doubt there are few if any Epic Templars (I would argue that Dregoths long-lived buddy might be the only exception).

Well the idea is that the SK trusts their PrC templars a little more than the others and grants them a few extra spells. I agree that epic templars do not exsist. You cannot take more than 20 levels in Templar, but you could start taking levels in other classes.
#9
jon_oracle_of_athas
Jan 06, 2006 15:59:48
I agree that epic templars do not exsist. You cannot take more than 20 levels in Templar, but you could start taking levels in other classes.

In 3.5 nothing prevents a templar from advancing to epic levels. There just isn't any precedence.
#10
Zardnaar
Jan 06, 2006 16:19:38
In 3.5 nothing prevents a templar from advancing to epic levels. There just isn't any precedence.

PC Templar would likely be the 1st? Could they go past level 20 in 2nd ed?
#11
jon_oracle_of_athas
Jan 06, 2006 16:23:04
PC Templar would likely be the 1st?

Yes. There are no epic templar NPCs.

Could they go past level 20 in 2nd ed?

No. They couldn't. Unless you were human and could dual-class, you were screwed - unless you were a multi-classed humanoid, whom were semi-screwed IIRC.
#12
kalthandrix
Jan 06, 2006 17:29:58 I still believe that Mon Adderath should be and is Epic- he is perhaps the only living man not a dragon alive today that took part in the Cleansing Wars, is a very trusted advisor to Dregoth, and is hs (Dregoth's) best friend- I really doubt there is anything that Dregoth would deny him.
#13
jon_oracle_of_athas
Jan 06, 2006 18:26:26 Mon Adderath wasn't even a 20th level templar in 2E, so he was not at the pinnacle of templarhood even when there existed a 20-cap limit. If he had been 20th level or dual-classed, that would have been a different basis for conversion - and possibly opening a door for making him epic level.
#14
Pennarin
Jan 06, 2006 18:33:57
Something just occured to me. Has anyone ever thought of giving templars a domain based on their SK? The idea probably isn't appropriate for the rank and file templar, but would be great for the various Templar PrCs!

A while back Jon was interested in looking over FR's Initiate feats to see if the concept could be ported to DS. Each Athasian Initiate feat would be dedicated to a facet of a SK's templarate, and give the same advantages as FR's feats, mainly access to spells not normally on the templar list.

A Urikite templar could take the Dead Heart initiate feat, or any other feat representing an iconic templar function described in a novel.

The idea would be that the initiate feats only cover exotic templar functions, such as a Urikite "dead heart" templar like Escrissar, and not the ordinary functions such as army commander, administrator, policeman, etc...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 leiff Jan 05, 2006 15:03:55	I'm curious how would a GM add new spells to a templar's spell list, from books with a new source of spells (Such as Spell Compendium etc..)? I'm wondering if there were any criteria for a spell to be on the templar list. One of my players in a darksun game that I'm running is a templar and since I have access to many more books past the core I wouldn't want to jip him with spells.
#2 Zardnaar Jan 05, 2006 16:08:42	I would rule any cleric spell is a contender for the templar spell list unless it has the following. 1. Specific references to a Deity. This includes the Weapon of the Deity spell, Visage of the Deity etc. 2. Its not to elemental based. Another spell like flamestrike is fine. Something that summons elementals no. 3. It doesn't conrtradict the DS theme. Frostburn and Draconomicon may not be the best books to convince the DM to draw spells from. Apart from that I would use a case by case basis.
#3 ruhl-than_sage Jan 05, 2006 17:47:14	Consider the roles of templars: He is an enforcer of the law, a representative of his king/queen, a city administrator, and an high ranking officer in the army. Any sort of spells that would be appropriate for these roles would be the most likely canidates for adding to the templar spell lists. Something just occured to me. Has anyone ever thought of giving templars a domain based on their SK? The idea probably isn't appropriate for the rank and file templar, but would be great for the various Templar PrCs!
#4 Kamelion Jan 05, 2006 19:36:41	Has anyone ever thought of giving templars a domain based on their SK? The idea probably isn't appropriate for the rank and file templar, but would be great for the various Templar PrCs! That would be a cool feature for a templar prestige class. There could, for example, be a 5-level prestige class that concentrated on enhancing a templar's spellcasting powers, for example. A domain linked to the templar's SK would be a great addition to a class like that. I had also considered the idea of giving each templarate a separate set of assigned spells, again inspired by their respective SKs. Combined with the work being done on another thread regarding region-specific weapons, this could really allow each city's templars to have clear mechanical differences to each other, in addition to the fluff differences. Hmm, in fact substitution levels specific to each templarate might be a really good way to add individual character to each city's templars. Something to work on, perhaps, once I get that epic spell cast that gives me an extra 10 hours in the day... ;)
#5 kalthandrix Jan 05, 2006 21:11:50	The only problem I might have expanding the templar spell list is the fact that the spells are granted directly by the SK's- and they are not really ones to share power too well- which would be why I really doubt there are few if any Epic Templars (I would argue that Dregoths long-lived buddy might be the only exception).
#6 jon_oracle_of_athas Jan 06, 2006 10:20:46	Something just occured to me. Has anyone ever thought of giving templars a domain based on their SK? The idea probably isn't appropriate for the rank and file templar, but would be great for the various Templar PrCs! Paizo thought about that when they made templars clerics and assigned domains to the various Sorcerer Monarchs. As for integrating this concept with the prestige classes, that has to be balanced with other class features. The Wife of Nibenay gets bonus spells known that infer "knowledge", reflecting Nibenay's scholarly nature.
#7 ruhl-than_sage Jan 06, 2006 14:09:55	I had also considered the idea of giving each templarate a separate set of assigned spells, again inspired by their respective SKs. Combined with the work being done on another thread regarding region-specific weapons, this could really allow each city's templars to have clear mechanical differences to each other, in addition to the fluff differences. Hmm, in fact substitution levels specific to each templarate might be a really good way to add individual character to each city's templars. Something to work on, perhaps, once I get that epic spell cast that gives me an extra 10 hours in the day... ;) Since the spells are "assigned" , I would think that they could assign whichever spells they wanted to to their templars. In fact they could probably assign different spells to different Templars if they wanted to. But anyway, thats a good idea. Those assigned spells could potenially even include spells that other templars don't have acess to taking the place of the domain idea.
#8 ruhl-than_sage Jan 06, 2006 14:13:19	The only problem I might have expanding the templar spell list is the fact that the spells are granted directly by the SK's- and they are not really ones to share power too well- which would be why I really doubt there are few if any Epic Templars (I would argue that Dregoths long-lived buddy might be the only exception). Well the idea is that the SK trusts their PrC templars a little more than the others and grants them a few extra spells. I agree that epic templars do not exsist. You cannot take more than 20 levels in Templar, but you could start taking levels in other classes.
#9 jon_oracle_of_athas Jan 06, 2006 15:59:48	I agree that epic templars do not exsist. You cannot take more than 20 levels in Templar, but you could start taking levels in other classes. In 3.5 nothing prevents a templar from advancing to epic levels. There just isn't any precedence.
#10 Zardnaar Jan 06, 2006 16:19:38	In 3.5 nothing prevents a templar from advancing to epic levels. There just isn't any precedence. PC Templar would likely be the 1st? Could they go past level 20 in 2nd ed?
#11 jon_oracle_of_athas Jan 06, 2006 16:23:04	PC Templar would likely be the 1st? Yes. There are no epic templar NPCs. Could they go past level 20 in 2nd ed? No. They couldn't. Unless you were human and could dual-class, you were screwed - unless you were a multi-classed humanoid, whom were semi-screwed IIRC.
#12 kalthandrix Jan 06, 2006 17:29:58	I still believe that Mon Adderath should be and is Epic- he is perhaps the only living man not a dragon alive today that took part in the Cleansing Wars, is a very trusted advisor to Dregoth, and is hs (Dregoth's) best friend- I really doubt there is anything that Dregoth would deny him.
#13 jon_oracle_of_athas Jan 06, 2006 18:26:26	Mon Adderath wasn't even a 20th level templar in 2E, so he was not at the pinnacle of templarhood even when there existed a 20-cap limit. If he had been 20th level or dual-classed, that would have been a different basis for conversion - and possibly opening a door for making him epic level.
#14 Pennarin Jan 06, 2006 18:33:57	Something just occured to me. Has anyone ever thought of giving templars a domain based on their SK? The idea probably isn't appropriate for the rank and file templar, but would be great for the various Templar PrCs! A while back Jon was interested in looking over FR's Initiate feats to see if the concept could be ported to DS. Each Athasian Initiate feat would be dedicated to a facet of a SK's templarate, and give the same advantages as FR's feats, mainly access to spells not normally on the templar list. A Urikite templar could take the Dead Heart initiate feat, or any other feat representing an iconic templar function described in a novel. The idea would be that the initiate feats only cover exotic templar functions, such as a Urikite "dead heart" templar like Escrissar, and not the ordinary functions such as army commander, administrator, policeman, etc...