The LGG document has a somewhat different take on her, giving her a shortbow as a secondary weapon (and the bulls eye target as holy symbol) dropping the stiletto, card deck and improvised weapons. Here she ascended with Olidamarra's help. Her titles are now: Rudd, The Charm, The Duelist !?! (Isn't Kelanen already called the Duelist ? ...or was it Stratis?) She is friendly with her mentor Norebo, but now she opposes Zagyg, Ralishaz, and Iuz.
Has anyone any ideas how to reconcile these two takes on her? I'm not sure if I like the shortbow as a secondary weapon. While I can see that it fits her implied portfolio of excellence I liked the stiletto better as it is a duelists/swashbuckler's weapon and of course the magical card deck
The two different descriptions could be how various sects of her church see her as well.
I like the idea of Rudd as a demigod that could show up in a campaign in an urban setting at almost any time, not as a combatant (what would be the point?) but as a fun role-playing foil. The drawing of her in Dragon 263 was perfect.
I did like the LGG idea that Olidammara was the god who sponsored her apotheosis, so I tend to think of Rudd as a half-divine heroine (a by-blow of Norebo) who ends up being taken under Olidammara's wing. This helps preserve the idea of her as a "common" deity, neither Oeridian nor Suel.
I didn't particularly care for the remake of Rudd myself (not surprising since I wrote the original).
The drawing of her in Dragon 263 was perfect.
You wrote that article? kewl! Rudd is a pet favorite of mine as well after that article (She went by the unassuming name Smiley in my Epic campaign). The art for the whole series was exquisite IMO and has been the model for webcomic versions. :D
Thanks. That was some of the hardest yet most satisfying writing I've done.
I really liked those articles, even the warrior Delleb with his big ol' gun. If I may ask, though, what was the reasoning behind killing off Wenta and giving her portfolio to Sotillion? And why was Raxivort in a series about Oeridian gods? I would have rather seen a god that hadn't been detailed before in Raxivort's place.
And why was Raxivort in a series about Oeridian gods? I would have rather seen a god that hadn't been detailed before in Raxivort's place.
Holy mackerel that's right! Why? Oeridians....Xvarts...Oeridians....Xvarts....can't comprehend the connection....
;)Wenta dead and portfolio annexed by Sotillion?
Raxivort and Oerids (the only connection I can see is that they make great target practice for old Oeridian horse archers :D )?
I demand answers!
P.
Delleb is portrayed as a scholar but he also has paladin levels and his signature weapon is a musket.
I didn't notice the bit about Wenta being killed off. (will hae to reread it)
Why Raxivort is included is a mystery, as his background even in that article does not suggest a connection to the Oeridians.
Delleb is portrayed as a scholar but he also has paladin levels and his signature weapon is a musket.
A musket...
Call me an inveterate old grognard - but what ever happened to the old rule against firearms in Greyhawk?
I really liked those articles, even the warrior Delleb with his big ol' gun. If I may ask, though, what was the reasoning behind killing off Wenta and giving her portfolio to Sotillion? And why was Raxivort in a series about Oeridian gods? I would have rather seen a god that hadn't been detailed before in Raxivort's place.
Your questions have made me realize both Wenta and Raxivort were mistakes on my part as I found when delving into my Greyhawk materials last night.
When I started working on the articles, my main resource was From the Ashes and the god list from that boxed set. It was the most recent Greyhawk supplement and formed the core of my research of the gods. The Greyhawk Player’s Guide had not yet been published. However, there were some mistakes on the god list in From the Ashes.
Wenta was not included on the list. I had found Atroa and Telchur but there just didn’t seem to be an Autumn god or goddess so I had Sotillon encompass some of her spheres. If I had researched a little deeper (using the original World of Greyhawk boxed set for example), I might have noticed my mistake.
Raxivort was also listed as an Oeridian God in that supplement, hence his inclusion in the article.
I didn’t do my research well enough. I only found this out last night when checking my original resources in the original Greyhawk portfolio, some of the Gary Gygax god articles from Dragon Magazine, the Greyhawk Boxed set, the hardback Greyhawk Adventures book, the City of Greyhawk, From the Ashes, and the Greyhawk Player’s Guide.
I was actually trying to fill in some of the holes in the pantheon with related gods. At the same time, I was trying to give the Greyhawk gods the same treatment the Forgotten Realms gods got in the original Faiths and Pantheons.
Wenta has never really been done in any detail. To repair the Sotillon entry from Dragon, I’d advise just removing the harvest references.
As for Delleb’s musket: I was inspired by the Adventures of Baron von Munchausen. I also figured that Delleb, being the god of knowledge and study, would be able to figure out how to make such a device work and be years ahead anyone when it came to “futuristic” weaponry. Murlynd and his priests could use smoke powder and I thought Delleb would have figured it out as well.
Wenta was not included on the list. I had found Atroa and Telchur but there just didn’t seem to be an Autumn god or goddess so I had Sotillon encompass some of her spheres. If I had researched a little deeper (using the original World of Greyhawk boxed set for example), I might have noticed my mistake.
Ah, I thought the death or disappearance of Wenta was a plot from your campaign, or something. Originally I thought Wenta had just been cut for reasons of space. Then I noticed in your article in the Dragon Annual #4 you say Brewfest 4 "was once holy to the lost Autumn Goddess" and I took that to mean something had actually happened to Wenta.
We can blame whoever edited From the Ashes as well as the editor of Dragon for the mistake. Both editors should have made it their business to research the settings or find someone who had. The editor of Dragon really should know all the D&D settings pretty well or pass articles along to someone who does.
As for Delleb’s musket: I was inspired by the Adventures of Baron von Munchausen. I also figured that Delleb, being the god of knowledge and study, would be able to figure out how to make such a device work and be years ahead anyone when it came to “futuristic” weaponry. Murlynd and his priests could use smoke powder and I thought Delleb would have figured it out as well.
As I said, I like the tougher, gun-toting Delleb. I assume Oerthly restrictions against firearms don't apply to the gods.
I also loved the bit about his clerics rounding up forbidden and dangerous knowledge.
There was a major row on the AOL boards at the time about Delleb's dog. Some people were extremely upset that it had been named a Labrador Retriever instead of, say, a Sea Princes Retriever, or just a big black dog. I don't think that was such a big deal.
As for Delleb’s musket: I was inspired by the Adventures of Baron von Munchausen.
I had that impression when I first read it. In fact alot of the charm of some of the quasi-deities/hero-gods reminds me of Munchausen.
We can blame whoever edited From the Ashes as well as the editor of Dragon for the mistake. Both editors should have made it their business to research the settings or find someone who had. The editor of Dragon really should know all the D&D settings pretty well or pass articles along to someone who does.
Heinous mistakes indeed! Maybe they were more vested in adding new gods and wizards like Mayaheine and Philidor than keeping consistency with the existing ones. If such errors came up in Mona's Dragon, I'm sure he'd never hear the end of it.
Ah, I thought the death or disappearance of Wenta was a plot from your campaign, or something. Originally I thought Wenta had just been cut for reasons of space. Then I noticed in your article in the Dragon Annual #4 you say Brewfest 4 "was once holy to the lost Autumn Goddess" and I took that to mean something had actually happened to Wenta.
We can blame whoever edited From the Ashes as well as the editor of Dragon for the mistake. Both editors should have made it their business to research the settings or find someone who had. The editor of Dragon really should know all the D&D settings pretty well or pass articles along to someone who does.
There was a major row on the AOL boards at the time about Delleb's dog. Some people were extremely upset that it had been named a Labrador Retriever instead of, say, a Sea Princes Retriever, or just a big black dog. I don't think that was such a big deal.
I blame the writer: i.e. me. I should have noticed the decrepency and done something about it. When I couldn't find the Autumn deity in From the Ashes, I added the comment about the "lost autumn goddess."
As for the Labrador Retriever ... I wish I had thought at the time of doing something like that! I love the idea of the Sea Princes (or even Berghof) Retriever.
Shadow was actually modeled after my brother's dog. She was half airedale, half black lab, so she had a fu-manchu beard. She was a great dog.
That said, I'm going to agree to differ with you on Delleb's musket. I prefer the idea of him using his quill to defend himself from Hextor (as presented in the LGG IIRC) and dislike the inclusion of firearms in GH in general (but that's just me). In LG Onnwal, one of the players invented a game very similar to darts called Delleb's Quills, where the players throw darts at a hexagonal target board. It's popular with scribes, funnily enough...
I'm going to explain it away as some sort of magical staff of boomsticking or perhaps better yet, some strange Keoish heresy (them Keolanders be strange folk - too much Suel in them for their own good).
P.
PS: Do you think if someone tried to take Delleb's musket off him, they'd have to prise it out of his cold dead hand? Sounds like a WoG cartoon there, eh Mortellan? :P
I love the idea of the Delleb's Quills game.
PS: Do you think if someone tried to take Delleb's musket off him, they'd have to prise it out of his cold dead hand? Sounds like a WoG cartoon there, eh Mortellan?
Sounds like we got a winner there Woesinger, when I get to this one i'll make sure you and Max get some credit. Delleb is another fave of mine in the comic. :D
I liked the Dragon #263 version better too, but of course gods can have many faces and aspects. There really isn't any great need to reconcile them; they could just represent the different ways she's worshipped in different areas. Her clerics could use either symbol or favored weapon, depending on the preference of whatever temple or region they're affiliated with.
I did like the LGG idea that Olidammara was the god who sponsored her apotheosis, so I tend to think of Rudd as a half-divine heroine (a by-blow of Norebo) who ends up being taken under Olidammara's wing. This helps preserve the idea of her as a "common" deity, neither Oeridian nor Suel.
My main concern is the shortbow secondary weapon. While I can see how it symbolizes excellence very good, in my building I've run into a problem here: she hasn't got the feats to spare to excel at bowshooting.
Isn't there already a bowyer deity among the Oeridians?
Perhaps the alternate Symbol is a stiletto throwing target (i.e Dart Board, or even Delleb's Quills Board) and not an archery target?
in my building I've run into a problem here: she hasn't got the feats to spare to excel at bowshooting.
You can't just make her higher level? Or give her more fighter levels and less of some other class. It seems a bad idea to change the flavor of a deity just for the sake of her NPC stats. From her flavor, it seems like she's primarily a fighter, albeit a roguish one.
On the other hand, I don't see any reason why a deity with two different aspects couldn't have two contradictory sets of statistics.
Isn't there already a bowyer deity among the Oeridians?
Celestian sometimes carries a long bow, but I don't think that makes him a god of archery. The same with Telchur and his shortbow (though I think I'd personally get rid of Telchur's shortbow and just give him the weapons Dragon #265 attributes to him). Hextor might qualify; he has two bows that he fires simultaneously and archery is probably part of his portfolio of war and fitness.
Perhaps the alternate Symbol is a stiletto throwing target (i.e Dart Board, or even Delleb's Quills Board) and not an archery target?
That's a possibility. You could combine the two symbols and make it a razor-sharp playing card sticking out of a dartboard, too.
You can't just make her higher level? Or give her more fighter levels and less of some other class. It seems a bad idea to change the flavor of a deity just for the sake of her NPC stats. From her flavor, it seems like she's primarily a fighter, albeit a roguish one.
On the other hand, I don't see any reason why a deity with two different aspects couldn't have two contradictory sets of statistics.
Well it wouldn't be changing the flavour, just going back to the old one. (Same as your advise on Telchur). Though I would like it better to synthesize a version out of both sources.
I have her as a Swasbuckler20/Rogue10-13/Exemplar10, Dvr3 (same as Iuz) so far, which IMO is a great buid for her. (Using Dicefreaks Deities rules, thus no outsider levels)
The feats leave not much room for Bow-related stuff. So she couldn't really excel. (Except with her power to roll any roll twice, which I'm thinking of incorporating as a unique SDA iwth the effects of a permanent Choose Destiny spell from RoD) But it is only her secondary weapon! I am thinking of having her Stiletto be able to transform into a shortbow though.
As for Oeridian Archer Deities, it seems there aren't relaly any. Hextor would encompass Archery in his General Warfare portfolio, though I think they dropped his two Longbows in 3E. It seems Archery is not such a big thing with the Oeridians.
That's a possibility. You could combine the two symbols and make it a razor-sharp playing card sticking out of a dartboard, too.
Good idea!
I doubt it.
Ivid the Undying credits them with bringing the crossbow into the Flanaess (IIRC - as well as chainmail). And given they were horse nomads it seems unlikely that they didn't employ horse archers.
Just because they don't have a dedicated god of archery doesn't mean archery wasn't big with them.
P.
Oerid-ophile.
Well it wouldn't be changing the flavour, just going back to the old one. (Same as your advise on Telchur).
It's a little different since they had the bullseye symbol of Rudd dating back a year before the Dragon article, in the Greyhawk Player's Guide, and that I think giving her proficiency in both melee and ranged weapons fits her general nature of being "good at everything."
(Using Dicefreaks Deities rules, thus no outsider levels)
As an ascended mortal, she wouldn't get any anyway, though. How about something like Bard 20/Arcane Archer 10/Duelist 10? Bard levels would fit both her roguish and her jack of all trades aspect, plus many of the powers are about inspiring excellence in others. That leaves her with just enough feats to qualify, I think. Except Arcane Archer is just for elves; is there another archer prestige class for humans? She could just have fighter levels instead with the Improved Precise Shot feat-tree.
Just because they don't have a dedicated god of archery doesn't mean archery wasn't big with them.
Presumedly ancient Oerid archers would have all prayed to Hextor.
And I like Swashbuckler better for her than Duelist. I'll have to think about going with a few Bard levels, though I don't see her as a performing sort. She doesn't sing or play any instruments, she gambles!
About the inspiring excellence, Exemplar gives her Lend Talent, plus she can grant the Power of Luck with the thusly named SDA.