Here are some product concepts we already have ideas for, some of which we have received inquiries about from you fans:
- Secrets of the Deadlands (Campaign Expansion)
- Lost Cities (Kurn and Eldaarich) (Accessory)
- City-State of Urik (Accesory) - detailing Urik
- City-State of Raam (Accessory) - detailing Raam
- City-State of Balic (Accessory) - detailing Balic
- The Life-shaped (Accessory) - rules for the lifeshaped
- The Kreen Empire (Campaign Expansion)
- Ruins of Athas (Accessory) - detailing the known ruins of Athas
- Faces of Athas (Accessory) - NPC guide to Athas
We will be posting a poll on athas.org where you can vote for the projects you want us to prioritize. The poll will contain projects from the above list plus others that will be chosen from this thread.
that's exciting!
Good stuff if you ask me ;)
Everything sounds great, but there is no mention of other Advanced Beings. Any hope for that?
Those are being worked on. I don't think they will have their own full "release" so much as expand on the release the Dragons are in (probably relabeled to "Epic" something-or-another). But we are planning on Avangions, Cleric-Elementals (in dire need of a beter name, IMO -- maybe Elemental Princes?) and Spirits of the Land.
Those are being worked on. I don't think they will have their own full "release" so much as expand on the release the Dragons are in (probably relabeled to "Epic" something-or-another). But we are planning on Avangions, Cleric-Elementals (in dire need of a beter name, IMO -- maybe Elemental Princes?) and Spirits of the Land.
What about Divine Elementals?
On the City-State of Balic idea - I had been trying, along with Scott (with his great site on Balic) and Dawnstealer (what the hell happened to him anyway) to coordinate an effort to pull this project together, but with the holidays looming, I think, all of our efforts fizzled out. Still interested to see this come about though, and think that any effort to bring this about should most definately include Scott and his ideas in some fashion.
On the City-State of Urik idea - pretty much the same story, only I was working with Cyrus, who had unexplainably dissappeared (and how sad the reality behind his "disappearance"). This one's still definately one on the top of my list, though.
And speaking of Cyrus - I'd love to see an expansion accessory done in tribute to Cyrus's creation - The Annatan (sp?) Wastes.
Anyway- Jon- this Faces of Athas, is this something other then the NPC Guide that I am working on?
I personally would like to see some additional material on gladiators- and perhaps on the fighting classes all together.
Lost Cities (Kurn and Eldaarich) should be #1 on the list IMO- there has just never been enough detail on these places to make them really feel like they are important centers for the new Athas. Detailing these two areas will help pull in the whole northern area.
How about the Dwarves of Athas- this would be a great product to help detail the differences between 'core' setting dwarves and those on Athas- and would help expand upon the dwarven focus and would also be a great prelude to the Ruins of Athas- as we could have some of the greater dwarven cities of old detailed in the dwarven supplement.
How about the Dwarves of Athas- this would be a great product to help detail the differences between 'core' setting dwarves and those on Athas- and would help expand upon the dwarven focus and would also be a great prelude to the Ruins of Athas- as we could have some of the greater dwarven cities of old detailed in the dwarven supplement.
Agreed, but I would like to take it a step further and do one for alll the main races and maybe some of the more popular ones, done in Elves of Athas style of course.
I've already got plans for something like this to fill out the Villichi, but that will happen once I get the life-shaped stuff done.
Also, I would like to see either a Background system (like from Wheel of Time and Conan (maybe it was Iron Heroes, can't remember)) or a better regional system to replace the one in the core rules. Expanded out of course to fit most if not all of the regions once we define the regions.
There was the whole Return to Blackspine adventure I had planned to, but that's down the road a ways.
Agreed, but I would like to take it a step further and do one for alll the main races and maybe some of the more popular ones, done in Elves of Athas style of course.
I've already got plans for something like this to fill out the Villichi, but that will happen once I get the life-shaped stuff done.
Also, I would like to see either a Background system (like from Wheel of Time and Conan (maybe it was Iron Heroes, can't remember)) or a better regional system to replace the one in the core rules. Expanded out of course to fit most if not all of the regions once we define the regions of course.
There was the whole Return to Blackspine adventure I had planned to, but that's down the road a ways.
So maybe something in the line of Races of Athas or something- that would be cool.
Well if we're going back to the Black Spine, why not a Return to the Dragon's Crown, where the PC's travel there to get shards of the psionitrix (?sp) to aid them in fighting a psionic plague or something, but someone has beaten them to it and has taken the shards to forge a crown that enslaves other psionic wielders (this is based off of an artifact I am working on loosely called the Dread Masters crown). He would be a member of the Order, maybe a survivor of the orginal adventure, who would have had access to the shards right after the item was shattered by the Water Hammer.
How about the Dwarves of Athas- this would be a great product to help detail the differences between 'core' setting dwarves and those on Athas- and would help expand upon the dwarven focus and would also be a great prelude to the Ruins of Athas- as we could have some of the greater dwarven cities of old detailed in the dwarven supplement.
I'm working on a dwarf only PrC called the Obstinate Soul. It expands on the dwarven focus premise. I'll be posting it within the next few weeks. Maybe it would fit in the Dwarves of Athas supplement.
I say, please, first focus your priorities on finishing the advanced beings and polishing DA, and only after that do go to create expansions, for quite understandable reasons - if, as in previous example, in one of those expanded areas (say, kreen empire), you have a kreen avangion, you can't stat him out without rules.
My 2 bits.
I think first and foremost should be finishing the already started and still vague elements, starting from the bottoms up - ie. rules. Without a complete and final ruleset it's much harder for the DM to create some things. Ie. I'd like to visit Mr. Avangion with a party of (epic) quasi-dragon defilers. Or vice versa.
I say, please, first focus your priorities on finishing the advanced beings and polishing DA, and only after that do go to create expansions, for quite understandable reasons - if, as in previous example, in one of those expanded areas (say, kreen empire), you have a kreen avangion, you can't stat him out without rules.
My 2 bits.
I second those 2 bits... detailed ruins of athas would be nice though...
I know I speak for many who were originally drawn to DS 2e specifically because of Dragon Kings and the AB concept, and who have been waiting for complete AB rules to be available for 3.5e for years. There's just nothing in the whole D20 universe quite like rolling up your 1st lvl character while dreaming of becoming a rolling stormcloud, or a being of pure magma, or the messiah of Athas (and then rolling up the other three members of your character tree, because everyone's going to end up dead in the process).
So pleasepleaseplease, pour everything into complete AB rules first.
After that, I concur that priority should go towards expanding away from the Tyr Region. Lost Cities and Kreen Empire get my runnerup votes. We don't need any more stuff on the few hundred-mile wide area that came in the first box set
Lord comes up with: Master, Ruler, Commander, King, Liege, Liege Lord, Soverign, Prince, Chief, Superior, Suzerian, Monarch, and Leader.
Which all pretty much blow. I mean seriously: Elemental Commander, Elemental Chief
Elemental Monarch sounds OK, but I think it has the wrong conotations same for king. Elemental prince is a little better, but still sounds a little silly especially in the feminine: Elemental Princess
I don't know that I would really want the name to imply an sort of rulership. What do they rule really anyway? I mean these sorts of names would make sense for an advanced being elemental who actually ruled a city-state (in place of sorcerer-king), but not just in general.
Elemental Paragon prehaps? Elementamorph?
Oh, and I see Jon forgot to add Cacti of the Wastelands to his list. Can't forget that one...
:D
Thats a tough one. Unfortunately there aren't any synonyms for elemental in the english language (at least no ones that have the particular meaning we're looking for).
Lord comes up with: Master, Ruler, Commander, King, Liege, Liege Lord, Soverign, Prince, Chief, Superior, Suzerian, Monarch, and Leader.
Which all pretty much blow. I mean seriously: Elemental Commander, Elemental Chief
Elemental Monarch sounds OK, but I think it has the wrong conotations same for king. Elemental prince is a little better, but still sounds a little silly especially in the feminine: Elemental Princess
I don't know that I would really want the name to imply an sort of rulership. What do they rule really anyway? I mean these sorts of names would make sense for an advanced being elemental who actually ruled a city-state (in place of sorcerer-king), but not just in general.
Elemental Paragon prehaps? Elementamorph?
Prince can have a gender-neutral meaning, when it is viewed as a shortened version of the word "Principle" -- it would mean Primary, or (or even Prime). There is no male or female notation for such thing -- and it would not necessarily confer the idea of being "in charge".
Paragon has an existing definition in D&D 3/3.5e, and I don't like using that any more than the idea of leadership. Elementamorph just sounds... well.... not very good. I'm sick of seeing things with the suffix "amorph" attached to them when it just doesn't make much sense to have it, and I've been soured to the suffix in general (I know that this is a case where it *could* have validity, since Divine Advanced Beings more or less "shapechange" between their original form and their AB forms).
Ubermental?
Oh, and I see Jon forgot to add Cacti of the Wastelands to his list. Can't forget that one...
:D
With Lord Doomspike as the main NPC writeup in that book as well.
:bounce:
Prince can have a gender-neutral meaning, when it is viewed as a shortened version of the word "Principle" -- it would mean Primary, or (or even Prime). There is no male or female notation for such thing -- and it would not necessarily confer the idea of being "in charge"
Oooh, I like Elemental Prime.
Only issue with that is that it sounds like a weird Transformer.
Elementals! Advance and roll out!
Elementals wage their battle to detroy the evil forces of...
The Sorcerer Kings
No seriously, I like Elemental Prime.
Some thoughts:
On the City-State of Balic idea - I had been trying, along with Scott (with his great site on Balic) and Dawnstealer (what the hell happened to him anyway)
On the City-State of Urik idea - pretty much the same story, only I was working with Cyrus, who had unexplainably dissappeared (and how sad the reality behind his "disappearance").
Since nobody told you, Cyrus9 brother came to this board in november (if I remember well) to tell us that he died in a car accident...
We wont be seeing him again unfortunatly.As for Dawnstealer... I dont have a clue myself.
How about Elemental Ascendant?
Ooouu! Thats a good one :D
The best idea I've heard so far. But, I just thought of a few more:
Living Element
Embodied Element
Incarnate Element (or Elemental Incarnate)
Since nobody told you, Cyrus9 brother came to this board in november (if I remember well) to tell us that he died in a car accident...
Maybe you should reread your quote of squidfur's post, Grummore.
As for Dawnstealer... I dont have a clue myself.
Still seeing him on Google Talk, quite a bit actually.
Let me message him and see what is up...
I put balic in first because it's a city I always had pleasure to bring my PCs there. I like sea (silt) adventure soooo.
2- Ruins of Athas (Accessory) - detailing the known ruins of Athas
We miss dungeon crawling in DS. That would be a good thing to have.
3- Secrets of the Deadlands (Campaign Expansion)
There is probably much already done. Soooo let's get it out!
4- Faces of Athas (Accessory) - NPC guide to Athas
Useful to have pregenerated NPC.
5- Lost Cities (Kurn and Eldaarich) (Accessory)
Where is brax btw? Still busy. Did the project moved?
6- City-State of Raam (Accessory) - detailing Raam
Dregoth stuff, big city, nice multiculturalism.
7- The Kreen Empire (Campaign Expansion)
Would be interesting to adventure there.
8- City-State of Urik (Accesory) - detailing Urik
I dont know why, my PCs when there only once. I find this city boring. I dont know why... Is king doesnt inspire me too. I find others SK much more flavorful.
9- The Life-shaped (Accessory) - rules for the lifeshaped
Yeah, well. Interesting, but never was my motto.
1- City-State of Balic (Accessory) - detailing Balic
I put balic in first because it's a city I always had pleasure to bring my PCs there. I like sea (silt) adventure soooo.
Plus if we can get ???'s permisssion (I suck at remembering names) we've got a huge head start on that one.
Plus if we can get ???'s permisssion (I suck at remembering names) we've got a huge head start on that one.
Scott Stoecker?
http://scottsto.brinkster.net/darksun/default.asp
Yeah, there is no way this project should have a go without him IMO.
Scott Stoecker?
http://scottsto.brinkster.net/darksun/default.asp
Yeah, there is no way this project should have a go without him IMO.
Yah thats the guy, Scott. I would be deeply disappointed if he was not involved at least in the form of allowing his material to serve as the basis for the suppliment. I would prefer of course that he was actually in charge of the project, or at least consulted frequently.
Still seeing him on Google Talk, quite a bit actually.
Let me message him and see what is up...
Ok, just talked to him.
Apparently he is extremely busy with school, work, etc.
how're these...
Proto-mental (or Proto-Elemental)
Demi-Elemental
Elemental Scion
Happy-Elemental-Fun-Time-Champion-Knight :P
Elemental Being...
Advanced Elemental...
probably need to get away from the word "elemental" to find something more inspiring...
But as far as the vote goes, everything on that list sounds excellent, and I don't have a preference for what comes first. But I second the notion that the Dwarves of Athas (or Races of Athas) should be added to the list!
Divine Elemental would work too, but it doesn't have the same flare.
I like elemental scion, thats a good one! They are after all, the inheriters of elemental power.
I don't know, Scion reminds me of the wannabe Highlander immortal rules from Birthright, heh.
Divine Elemental would work too, but it doesn't have the same flare.
Agreed, it's too simple.
How about Extreme Elemental Force!?
On a more serious note how about something similar to Force of Nature?
I think I agree with huntercc, we probably need to stay away from the word Elemental.
PS: Elemental Legate?
I think first and foremost should be finishing the already started and still vague elements, starting from the bottoms up - ie. rules. Without a complete and final ruleset it's much harder for the DM to create some things. Ie. I'd like to visit Mr. Avangion with a party of (epic) quasi-dragon defilers. Or vice versa.
I respectfully totally disagree :P
It’s a rather selfish view, but I think too much focus has been put on the rules already, and not enough on the fluff. In my view, it doesn’t really help if the rules are in place (apart from the basics - i.e. DS3 and ToA), if the fluff isn’t there. Now, you can argue that it’s easier to invent the fluff yourself, that you don’t want someone else inventing everything for you etc. That’s all true. However, I find that inventing good background material is extremely time-consuming – and I know that personally, I don’t have anywhere near the amount of time needed to e.g. create the city of Balic in such wonderful detail as athas.org has done with Draj (great job on that btw guys!).
As a new DM (but old player) with a new DS campaign, I think it’s more important to get the fluffy stuff in order to make the world come alive as much as possible, rather than have the rules for e.g. Avangions and Elemental beings. After all...how many Avangions/Elemental beings will you face (as I think most campaigns don't do the Epic thing to become one themselves), compared to the amount of time you can spend in e.g. Balic?
It’s a selfish view…but I don’t think it should be ignored, since new players/DMs will be attracted to DS, and the fluff material is of prime importance if you haven’t used the setting for 5+ years already. Fleshing out the world is what keeps it alive imo (and no, I don't mean exclusively and always over rules ;) ).
How about this- The Dangers of Athas, a kind of suppliment that would have small lairs and encounters made up to help a DM fill in time or to insets into their adventure as a hook to another game.
This would be really, really nice. Coming up with interesting lairs/encounters on the road can be time-consuming, and this would be a huge help. Thumbs up from me
So maybe something in the line of Races of Athas or something- that would be cool.
This would be on the very top of my list, hands down, no competition, the show is over, the fat lady has sung and so on.
A number of my players have asked me for further information on the different races, particularly halflings, dwarves and half-giants. As far as I know, there is simply no place I can get the information they want (with the exception of the Jagged Cliffs supplement for halflings – I don’t own it. Is it worth getting if you don't plan on including the Cliffs in your campaign?), which is a hindrance to making full-fledged characters. So this would be hugely appreciated.
My personal list would be something like this:
Races of Athas
The Kreen Empire (planning on including the classic invasion in my campaign)
Faces of Athas (GREAT idea)
Maps of Athas (like Sysane proposed, and already there is a vast amount of material available)
Dangers of Athas
Ruins of Athas
City-State of Balic
Lost Cities
Secret of the Deadlands
City-State of Urik
City-State of Raam
The Life-shaped
Elemental Ascendent sounds the best IMHO for a cleric.
Agreed, it has a good sound to it, while at the same time being explanatory.
Please try not to derail the thread with Athasian Elemental name variants. I've started a new thread for this.
Spoil sport :P
O ya- you never did answer my first question Jon
O ya- you never did answer my first question Jon
Sorry, what was that?
Yah thats the guy, Scott. I would be deeply disappointed if he was not involved at least in the form of allowing his material to serve as the basis for the suppliment. I would prefer of course that he was actually in charge of the project, or at least consulted frequently.
I've been in contact with Scott earlier while working on DA part 2, and he gave me permission to use his material for that project. It seems natural to ask him if he wants to be involved in a Balic project, should we do one. He has some good stuff on Balic that can be further developed. As for the delegation of individual team roles, that's a more complicated process. A good fluff designer is not by default a good reviewer or team leader. It also depends a lot on how much time a person can devote to the project.
So pleasepleaseplease, pour everything into complete AB rules first.
After that, I concur that priority should go towards expanding away from the Tyr Region. Lost Cities and Kreen Empire get my runnerup votes. We don't need any more stuff on the few hundred-mile wide area that came in the first box set
I feel I should clarify that it is not necessarily the same individuals that will be involved on the different project teams. Personally, I am a proponent of athas.org creating and releasing a "fluff" product this year. We've almost exclusively released adventures and rules material the last three years. That said, the team working on the epic rules has suffered some setbacks last year. We hope to get the ball rolling again now and get avangions and elementals out in a couple of months.
Those are being worked on. I don't think they will have their own full "release" so much as expand on the release the Dragons are in (probably relabeled to "Epic" something-or-another). But we are planning on Avangions, Cleric-Elementals (in dire need of a beter name, IMO -- maybe Elemental Princes?) and Spirits of the Land.
What about the members of the Order and the Mindlords? Since is so hard to become a epic manifester (you know, either join or be killed), I think should have some kickass abilities to compensate...
What about Elemental Lords for a name?
I feel I should clarify that it is not necessarily the same individuals that will be involved on the different project teams. Personally, I am a proponent of athas.org creating and releasing a "fluff" product this year. We've almost exclusively released adventures and rules material the last three years. That said, the team working on the epic rules has suffered some setbacks last year. We hope to get the ball rolling again now and get avangions and elementals out in a couple of months.
If the same people aren't working on both ends of the thread, and thus splitting their attention and time, then by all means let's get some fluff! :D
IMHO, I think a bit of the expanded world should be first priority. The Dead Lands,and the Kreen empire seem to me as viable choices since both were introduced in 2nd expanded revision but oh-so-little was actually told about them, unfortunately. I think the non-descript black plate of obsidian many thousand square miles big could actually contain far more ancient knowledge/ruins/plot hooks and interesting adversaries that the bugfaces. And dangers, oh yes, and dangers. I vote for thatone first!
I respectfully totally disagree :P
It’s a rather selfish view, but I think too much focus has been put on the rules already, and not enough on the fluff. In my view, it doesn’t really help if the rules are in place (apart from the basics - i.e. DS3 and ToA), if the fluff isn’t there. Now, you can argue that it’s easier to invent the fluff yourself, that you don’t want someone else inventing everything for you etc. That’s all true. However, I find that inventing good background material is extremely time-consuming – and I know that personally, I don’t have anywhere near the amount of time needed to e.g. create the city of Balic in such wonderful detail as athas.org has done with Draj (great job on that btw guys!).
I completely understand your point of view, but how much information can actualy be there concerning the original box set locations? Yes, I agree, Balic is one of the hot-spots and crucial to virtually any treasure-hunting campaign, but please understand me - I've been waiting for years to see the avangions, elemental beings and other ABs, not to mention how it affected every camapign that wanted to go to high-levels, as you undoubtedy understand. I simply panicked when Jon started talking about new projects instead of explaining what took the old ones so long.
But now that he said different teams will be on those projects I'm very much relieved.
I completely understand your point of view, but how much information can actualy be there concerning the original box set locations? Yes, I agree, Balic is one of the hot-spots and crucial to virtually any treasure-hunting campaign, but please understand me - I've been waiting for years to see the avangions, elemental beings and other ABs, not to mention how it affected every camapign that wanted to go to high-levels, as you undoubtedy understand. I simply panicked when Jon started talking about new projects instead of explaining what took the old ones so long.
I completely understand your view - like I said, my view was rather selfish
Ultimately, there is no way you can make a list of priorities that will satisfy everyone. Nothing to be done about that, apart from working on different projects simulataneously!
Ultimately, there is no way you can make a list of priorities that will satisfy everyone.
That's what the poll is for. ;)
People will just have to accept that some product concepts are more popular.
Nothing to be done about that, apart from working on different projects simulataneously!
Project size will be a factor here. Having two or three major products such as Secrets of the Deadlands, Lost Cities and the Kreen Empire in production at once is almost bound to fail - plus it would be a long period without any new releases. It's better to focus on one or two products of different size.
We hope to get the ball rolling again now and get avangions and elementals out in a couple of months.
Jon, are you just yanking our chains? Give us fluff, give us playtests... anything. Please!
- City-State of Raam (Accessory) - detailing Raam
- Faces of Athas (Accessory) - NPC guide to Athas
- Ruins of Athas (Accessory) - detailing the known ruins of Athas
- City-State of Urik (Accesory) - detailing Urik
- City-State of Balic (Accessory) - detailing Balic
- Secrets of the Deadlands (Campaign Expansion)
- Lost Cities (Kurn and Eldaarich) (Accessory)
- The Life-shaped (Accessory) - rules for the lifeshaped
- The Kreen Empire (Campaign Expansion)
Also intresting would be a book of athasian dwarves, muls and half-giants. Something about nobles of the city states would be good too, although I guess this could be added to the City-State-Accessories.
Dragon magazine has brought back the nostalgia ecology of monster x articles and taken them to a whole new level.
I was thinking about doing this with monsters from ToA, TotDL and any other monster suppliment we create during down time between projects I will be doing, or just shooting one out here and there when I have time.
They would definately be more fluff pieces than crunch pieces, and I can either seek official approval for this and get them posted to the athas.org website in the articles section, or post to my own site and seek approval later and maybe make it a seperate product or just post to the articles section at athas.org.
Either way, I'm willing to be a part of this project in some degree.
The idea of a "Races of..." for Athasian races would be cool. Either as individual race splat-books (ala the Elves of Athas, Thri-Kreen of Athas, etc.) or a collection of two - three specific races together in detail (read: extensive flavor/fluff), with some "standard" race information (like what is in the DS3 document/PHB) for the atypical races like Jozhal, Gith, Tarek, etc. That would be awesome.
Definitely would be nice to see something more about the non-standard humanoid races, such as those mentioned above, and many more I can't think of
I respectfully totally disagree :P
It’s a rather selfish view, but I think too much focus has been put on the rules already, and not enough on the fluff. In my view, it doesn’t really help if the rules are in place (apart from the basics - i.e. DS3 and ToA), if the fluff isn’t there.
I agree
Consider this seconded, or thirded, or wherever-it-is-now-plus-one'ed! Especially as I'm one of those who don't use D&D rules to play Dark Sun in the first place...Wisdom of the Drylanders is official. It was upgraded to official status a while back.
O I C - my bad :embarrass
Anywho- it still stands that it could use a bit of an update.
I'm very eager to see what you folks cook up for the rest of the Advanced Beings. I'm dying for the Avangion and what the as-of-yet-unrenamed Cleric advanced being is going to be.
On a side note: What were the other 2nd edition reqs for that Cleric Advanced Being thing? Was it just solid cleric or did it require psychic abilities too?
-X
On a side note: What were the other 2nd edition reqs for that Cleric Advanced Being thing? Was it just solid cleric or did it require psychic abilities too?
-X
Cleric 20/Psionicist 20, if memory serves.
Foods, fruits and vegetables of Athas
Livestock of Athas
Unique meals for picky Palletts? (I.E. Thrikreen or Kank meat)
Life shaped for the rich and famous
Life shaped Silt Skimmers with tree of Life masts
edible mounts and deliscious spicy recipes
Rajaat's hidden citadels and towers of learning
Athasian giants as friends and co-workers
I have been working on these as well as Ruins and lost cities of Athas
(would love to incorporate my work with the Senates and members ideas)
I love the Idea of NPC's of Athas, maybe we could ALL bring our NPC's into it
What about the Senate of Athas, I have wanted to get a secret organization, ( Which We call the Circle, Located on the Black Isle) run by Epic beings with names I'd like to add..............Jon, Gab, Brax, Brom, Xlorep, Throkat, Xanthus, Kalthandrix, Korvar, "the Hunter", Bengledorn, "the Nytcrawler", Megatherion, Brun, Master Ivan, Elonarc, Zardnarr, the Rhul than sage, Sysane, Tyravias Arion of House Starvias, "the Dark soul man", FLIP< Brian, Vortexa, Lyric, Pennarin, Squidfur, Kamelion, Jihun-Nish, Mach, Methvesem, Milithor, (Grummore of course), Cap'n Nick, Afghan, Jaanos, Seker, Nagypapi, Shei-Nad, and Inix toe filth. Of course, we would only use the names and Pc's of those who allowed us to use them. Hope I didnt forget anyone. would love to make up the "circle" with permission of using your "names" and/or Characters as the leaders of this organization.
Galek Sandstrider, The son of the Wanderer
Er... actually, i would prefer you didn't. My name turns up in some strange google searches already.
Out of curiousity, I ran a Google search on Xlorep, which is a pretty unique and odd name, so I figured it would just be things I had done/written. Well, to my surprise there was one that I could not account for. Search within that page, which apparently is some human Genome encoding sequences, for "XLOREP", and you'll find this line:
Xl.15056 Oocyte repetitive sequence (XLOREP) mRNA
Never knew I was genetic material.
Wisdom of the Drylanders is official. It was upgraded to official status a while back.
O I C - my bad :embarrass
Anywho- it still stands that it could use a bit of an update.
I agree with Kal on this one, and while we're at it, Villages of the Wastes is badly in need of an update as well.
What about the Senate of Athas, I have wanted to get a secret organization, ( Which We call the Circle, Located on the Black Isle) run by Epic beings with names I'd like to add..............Jon, Gab, Brax, Brom, Xlorep, Throkat, Xanthus, Kalthandrix, Korvar, "the Hunter", Bengledorn, "the Nytcrawler", Megatherion, Brun, Master Ivan, Elonarc, Zardnarr, the Rhul than sage, Sysane, Tyravias Arion of House Starvias, "the Dark soul man", FLIP< Brian, Vortexa, Lyric, Pennarin, Squidfur, Kamelion, Jihun-Nish, Mach, Methvesem, Milithor, (Grummore of course), Cap'n Nick, Afghan, Jaanos, Seker, Nagypapi, Shei-Nad, and Inix toe filth. Of course, we would only use the names and Pc's of those who allowed us to use them. Hope I didnt forget anyone. would love to make up the "circle" with permission of using your "names" and/or Characters as the leaders of this organization.
Galek Sandstrider, The son of the Wanderer
I will have to ask that my name not be used either- my screen name is actually one of the major characters in a book I am writing- and my personal favorite- and I would like for it not to appear in any other publication and/or written material which I do not create. Sorry.
You can use mine, on the requirement that you make me a Seer/Nature Master. :D I don't hoard my name :P :P
Ya but it is spelled wrong :P :D
How about a more intensive Flora and Fauna of Athas
Foods, fruits and vegetables of Athas
Try here ---> The Athasian Flora Project
:D
You can use mine, on the requirement that you make me a Seer/Nature Master. :D I don't hoard my name :P :P[/QUOTE
Thanks, I think the others got it wrong, I wasnt going to use their names online or in my campaigns other than to mention that they "were" epic level beings that were "in control" of behind the scenes happenings in the Tablelands as well as across Athas. I wasn't planning on using them for anything more than reverence for their work on the Dark Sun world. I've been playing D&D since early 1980 and Dark Sun the day it came out. These "Epic lvl Personas" where to be forever hidden as they are to us now. I meant not to be Discourteous as much as I meant to Appreciate hard work and perseverence. besides, isnt the Blue Shrine in use at the moment?
Sage, could you email me?
Scott
I tought of one artifact the other day, something used by the preservers in the preserver jihad, I named it the blue lens (not very original I know) but one thing about it is that Rajaat and his students can't use it... they came by this artifact (either Rajaat or his Champs) in the beginning of the Cleansing Wars. They brought it somewhere it could never be found because they couldn't find a way to destroy it. It was made in the the preserver jihad, by three arch mages of Rajaat's schools.
After nearly an eon of study, they found a way to make it so powerful that Rajaat and his minions feared it's power. The final step of it's creation transformed the three to the inside of the lens. The lens is one of the reasons that Rajaat and his men could never finish the jihad off. After being found, by an unknown group of adventurers it was brought to the rescue of the ones suffering in the Cleansing Wars.
After Albeorn killed the Elven king ....erm...someone of something :P Albeorn retrieved the lens and brought it to the first sorcerer. Since he was unable to use it he could not find a way to destroy it, so he hid it...nobody knows where, it could be buried inside a tree in the Bogo forrest, under the silt sea, or maybe somewhere in the Anattan wastes...that question remains to be answered. But one thing is certain, the evil fear it. (I'm not good at writing stories :D )
This artifact can't be used by anyone besides a LG 15-20 lvl preserver with knowledge of the Way.
Anyone who tries to connect himself with the artifact, who is evil must make a will save DC ca. 30-35 and lose 60 hp or be disintigrated, neutral will save DC 30-35 and lose 1d3 pts. Int and pass out for 1d6 min. or be feebleminded for 1d6 weeks, chaotic add 5 on the DC, neutral N/A, lawful N/A.
This artifact increases caster/manifester level by 4
Increases effection on chaotic creatures by 5 (fort/ref/will), chaotic evil by 10
The one who posesses it gains:
- protection from evil
- +4 competence bonus on saving throws
- +4 intelligence
- 500-1000 PPs reserve
-
Any defiler within it's radius (120 ft.) must make a will save dc 20 or be insane for 1d6 hours
It's an intelligent artifact (int ??)
Tell me what you guys think....and maybe this is the wrong thread for this too, but I can take a beating so, no worries ;)
Just an Idea, if someone has interest in making something out of it, I'm not sure how to make an artifact anyway so...
Try here ---> The Athasian Flora Project
:D
Hey that's nice - but it wouldn't hurt to have a bigger document, preferrably with pics, more plants and descriptions
??
Scott
Very IMPRESSIVE. mind if I use it with your Name and blessing in my campaign only, not online or in anything official, just a reference to it in my campaign. maybe keep it in the Blue Shrine
??
Scott
Are you asking me now?
I agree with Kal on this one, and while we're at it, Villages of the Wastes is badly in need of an update as well.
Unfortunately we would have to do it on an unofficial level and not post it, heh, since we can't get all of the authors to give us permissions to update it. I know Grummore tried this in the past not too long ago.
The best we could do is update the parts that we do have permission for then leave out or totally rewrite the parts we don't have permission for, and then probabaly have to rename the whole project as well.
But yes, I agree, it needs to be updated.
That and I wouldn't mind updating the Sielba adventure too, but we need to track down the author of that one and get permission first before we can do anything officially.
Is there going to be a revision of "Psionic Artifacts of Athas"
So far there are just plans to update the life-shaped artifacts that I know of.
I'm sure the rest will come eventually.
Just an Idea, if someone has interest in making something out of it, I'm not sure how to make an artifact anyway so...
It definately has potential, but the mechanics and the fluff need a huge overhaul. I would ask some of our artifact converters to take a stab at it, like Penn.
Are you asking me now?
Sure, I'd just like to give you the credit and aknowledgment that I just like to use others ideas for a referrence and to add flavor to Athas
Scott
Sure, I'd just like to give you the credit and aknowledgment that I just like to use others ideas for a referrence and to add flavor to Athas
Scott
sure, you're welcome to use it
Unfortunately we would have to do it on an unofficial level and not post it, heh, since we can't get all of the authors to give us permissions to update it. I know Grummore tried this in the past not too long ago.
The best we could do is update the parts that we do have permission for then leave out or totally rewrite the parts we don't have permission for, and then probabaly have to rename the whole project as well.
But yes, I agree, it needs to be updated.
All the material in Villages of the Waste is copyright of the respective contributors; as Nyt said, we can't just update it.
However, I see nothing wrong with us doing another one.
All the material in Villages of the Waste is copyright of the respective contributors; as Nyt said, we can't just update it.
However, I see nothing wrong with us doing another one.
I agree Gab, I made maps and added NPC's as well as adding them to my Tablelands map, I believe that Athas is ours to Paint and color in with ideas and flavor, sad that Wizards gave up on D&D's best world. I've also added villages to those ones.
Galek Sandstrider
So far there are just plans to update the life-shaped artifacts that I know of.
I'm sure the rest will come eventually.
It definately has potential, but the mechanics and the fluff need a huge overhaul. I would ask some of our artifact converters to take a stab at it, like Penn.
cool
That and I wouldn't mind updating the Sielba adventure too, but we need to track down the author of that one and get permission first before we can do anything officially.
What Sielba adventure?
I only know about the Tyrean Conspiracy, the Draj Adventure, and Dregoth's.
Also, why not continue the Villages of the Wastes? Update those that can be, and create new villages as well.
What Sielba adventure?
Sorry for not posting earlier.
This Sielba adventure:
Return of a Sorcerer Queen
That probably should go into the archive as well.
/me pokes Penn
Also, why not continue the Villages of the Wastes? Update those that can be, and create new villages as well.
It would be easier to probably just start from scratch.
If anyone wants to take a stab at it, go for it.
Also, why not continue the Villages of the Wastes? Update those that can be, and create new villages as well.
It would be easier to probably just start from scratch.
If anyone wants to take a stab at it, go for it.
I am at work, but I can tell you that I have mail from the original author. If I remember well, we have a 10 authorizations, 1 that refused and 3 I couldnt find (after MUCH effort let me tell you that).
It was something I wanted to do as a project, but I have sooo few time that I couldnt do it.
If someone can do the 2e to 3.5e NPCs conversion, I would create a new pdf with the villages and we could post it a a new project. We could add new villages as well, while we would be at it.
Anybody interested in converting these NPCs?
Master Ivan's artifact has piqued my interest, so I will be working on it at the same time as...er, dunno-whose-it-is Life Leech artifact.
Awesome! Thanks Pen!
Try putting the link in manually.
http://www.rpgarchive.com/index.php?page=adv1&advid=63
Thanks for all of your hard work!
itf
I am at work, but I can tell you that I have mail from the original author. If I remember well, we have a 10 authorizations, 1 that refused and 3 I couldnt find (after MUCH effort let me tell you that).
It was something I wanted to do as a project, but I have sooo few time that I couldnt do it.
If someone can do the 2e to 3.5e NPCs conversion, I would create a new pdf with the villages and we could post it a a new project. We could add new villages as well, while we would be at it.
Anybody interested in converting these NPCs?
Well... peoples were asking about Villages of the Waste. No reply about this. Anybody interested?
Well... peoples were asking about Villages of the Waste. No reply about this. Anybody interested?
I can do it- not right away but I will get it done.
Now I do not recall, but did the NPCs have full stat blocks or not- and if not should they be added to VotW?
Anyway- I will download a new copy of the item and put it on my "to do" list of DS stuff I am working on.
I can do it- not right away but I will get it done.
Now I do not recall, but did the NPCs have full stat blocks or not- and if not should they be added to VotW?
Anyway- I will download a new copy of the item and put it on my "to do" list of DS stuff I am working on.
If you want a hand ....... give me a yell.
[email]scott.amos@wpafb.af.mil[/email]
Scott
Grum, maybe a separate thread is in order?
Aye aye sir! I will see to that. Btw Jon, would this project become official once finished and athas.org had overlooked it?
Everything sounds great, but there is no mention of other Advanced Beings. Any hope for that?
Is this projrect complete, I thought we would see elemental transformations etc...
I would love to help on it...
Is this projrect complete, I thought we would see elemental transformations etc...
I would love to help on it...
The project is not complete. We're starting on the Avangions. I'm hoping to be able to get my thoughts to the Epic bureau soon.
I have tones of Epic DM experience.
How do I join the Epic Bureau
I have tones of Epic DM experience.
Hey- keep your tones to yourself! This is a respectable messageboard :D
Hey- keep your tones to yourself! This is a respectable messageboard :D
The word was actualy tones.
I won a Tony award, then I won another; I have 2 Tones.
How do I join the Epic Bureau
I have tones of Epic DM experience.
It's not something you can just jump into. Those of us that are part of Athas.org had been selected for different qualities. Your best bet would be working on your own projects and then posting them here on the forum, or submitting to Athas.org. I got inducted into the Epic Bureau because of my extreme work on Dragons and Avangions, which I was presenting here for people to review (3 Prestige Classes + 4 Epic Spells for each to handle the metamorphosis process) Several of my ideas are still very much part of the current release of the dragon rules at Athas.org (and I'm the primary motivation behind the 6th-level psionic power requirements for the PrC, and have a link in my sig to explain that one).
So... do some stuff -- make PrC's, Feats, Spells, editing/finding errata in the DS3 documents, making pictures, whatever floats your skimmer so to speak. Get yourself noticed by the rest the Athas.org people who regularly haunt this forum, and you'll probably get inducted as well.
So... do some stuff -- make PrC's, Feats, Spells, editing/finding errata in the DS3 documents, making pictures, whatever floats your skimmer so to speak. Get yourself noticed by the rest the Athas.org people who regularly haunt this forum, and you'll probably get inducted as well.
Can do, what 2ed books cover the relivent material (if any).
Can do, what 2ed books cover the relivent material (if any).
Well, any of them will do for coming up with ideas, I think. It's difficult to pinpoint the Epic materials, short of info from Dragon Kings, Earth, Air, Fire, & Water, and Defilers & Preservers. Then there's some of the Sorcerer-King stats in a few places, like Beyond the Prism Pentad. There's an adventure that details The Order (I want to say the Dragon's Crown or something, dealing with the Psionatrix), as well as some short stories that are in the 2E materials that could shed some light on things like additional non-Sorcerer-King Advanced Beings (Dragon or Avangion), the Mind Lords of the Last Sea has some info on the Mind Lords (yet more Epic characters).
But that's if you really want to focus on the Epic concepts for what you are after. And it's most likely no all of the material there is in the books -- but it can be an interesting project in and of itself to outline what material from which book could be used for Epic development...
Is there enough interest in an accessory like this? It would be a say, 30-40 page accessory, mostly fluff, hopefully some pictures and of course the PrCs I built, together with some other appropriate ones.
If there's interest I'd be happy to open up a discussion to harvest good ideas, with the focus on the fluff itself - way of living, clan habits and tests, special quests people do to prove themselves worthy etc.
I was thinking of doing an accessory, describing the bandit states in more detail, the culture and habits of the raiders hailing from there with special focus on the Wind Rider clan. The way I see it they're among the very precious few that actively travel from the north to the tablelands and back as a part of the clan migration. Most elven tribes are happy to roam the tablelands and never drift far away from urban settlements where they can cash in the stolen and raided goods.
Is there enough interest in an accessory like this? It would be a say, 30-40 page accessory, mostly fluff, hopefully some pictures and of course the PrCs I built, together with some other appropriate ones.
If there's interest I'd be happy to open up a discussion to harvest good ideas, with the focus on the fluff itself - way of living, clan habits and tests, special quests people do to prove themselves worthy etc.
There's always interest. However, if you deviate from the existing setting material too much (too many contadictions to the existing setting), then your accessory might not get very much interest. Best you can do, in order to get the largest percentage of interest, is stay true to Dark Sun. I'd be quite interested in seeing what you do!
There's always interest. However, if you deviate from the existing setting material too much (too many contadictions to the existing setting), then your accessory might not get very much interest. Best you can do, in order to get the largest percentage of interest, is stay true to Dark Sun. I'd be quite interested in seeing what you do!
I have thoroughly read the expanded campaign setting on the bandit states and general geographics, and i found very little actual information on anything. The names of the states and names of the leaders are there and that's basically it. Two sentences per state. I found only one sentence in the whole wanderer's journal that mentioned people riding sail-carts.
Basically I wouldn't deviate from the setting since there's nothing there to deviate from. I can only fill in the blanks and try to add some flavor to those playing north of the tablelands. Of course everything i do would be available for revision by the general concensus.
The Dungeon Magazine adventure Grave Circumstances is set in the Bandit States and further details the area.
Currently running that adventure for my PCs- see my 2nd ed thread. Something covering lost cities and sites north of the Tyr region and east of the jagged cliffs would be nice. Windriders of the Jagged Cliffs and Mindlords of the Last Sea covered some area but theres alot left.
The Dungeon Magazine adventure Grave Circumstances is set in the Bandit States and further details the area.
You aren't claiming that as official are you
?The Dungeon Magazine adventure Grave Circumstances is set in the Bandit States and further details the area.
No matter my reservations on that one I'll try not to conradict anything. Much. ;)
You aren't claiming that as official are you
The adventure was written by Bill Slavicsek, so I don't see the problem Sage.
Some of the points are rather odd, like a D&D-ish troll, and a weirder instant-dragon part scheme, but you learn to live with it. Personaly I have a problem with the troll (since I love RaFoaDK) but no major problem with the dragon thing.
The adventure was written by Bill Slavicsek, so I don't see the problem Sage.
Some of the points are rather odd, like a D&D-ish troll, and a weirder instant-dragon part scheme, but you learn to live with it. Personaly I have a problem with the troll (since I love RaFoaDK) but no major problem with the dragon thing.
See I was the complete opposite- loved the troll but hated the instant dragon transformation- but hey, to each his own.
As for it being official- I would have to say that yes it would be official due to to the fact that it was the prelude to the revised setting material and was written by one of the major DS designers in TSR - BTW, I actuall have his autograph on some Alternity thing that they were doing for the 25th Anniversery and was able to meet him- he is a pretty cool guy
The adventure was written by Bill Slavicsek, so I don't see the problem Sage.
Some of the points are rather odd, like a D&D-ish troll, and a weirder instant-dragon part scheme, but you learn to live with it. Personaly I have a problem with the troll (since I love RaFoaDK) but no major problem with the dragon thing.
Well even the revised boxed set hinted that some Trolls survived in the depths of Troll Grave Chasm. Also given Darksuns history of genetic mutation it isn't to far fetched that any survivng trolls mutaded from the ones depicted in RaFoaDK into the more traditional D&D Troll. How any Tolls survived wasn't revealed but I suppose some necromancer or something could have fused left over Troll bits into a patchwork Troll and revived it- assuming Hamanu eliminated them all.
Me, NytCrawlr, and Mach2.5 each have a mini (few inches across) DS Boxed Set signed by Bill when we met him at GenCon '04. We didn't talk to him as I recall because there was this vibe coming off of him like his mind was elsewhere. Dunno if Nyt recalls it that way.
I have thoroughly read the expanded campaign setting on the bandit states and general geographics, and i found very little actual information on anything. The names of the states and names of the leaders are there and that's basically it. Two sentences per state. I found only one sentence in the whole wanderer's journal that mentioned people riding sail-carts.
Basically I wouldn't deviate from the setting since there's nothing there to deviate from. I can only fill in the blanks and try to add some flavor to those playing north of the tablelands. Of course everything i do would be available for revision by the general concensus.
I'm not saying deviating from material already on that particular subject, but deviating from the Dark Sun setting in general. Several ideas get shot down and not even really very looked at here, simply because it's too much of a stretch to be Dark Sun -- an extreme example was WarOverlord's old rant about some really offlandish claims that there were Dark Sun books made that nobody else had ever heard of. Staying true to the setting when developing somethig new, that's what tends to be a lot more popular. Adding new things is fun, but let's not suddenly have silly things like towns filled with Forgotten Realms Moon Elves or some nonsense (not stating you were even remotely planning that, but just as an example of "breaking" from the setting too much).
See that's the thing: you can tweak it any way you want and it will work, but if you attempt to use the unedited text for the adventure you have to accept that the troll looked like that before, and that it already posessed regenerative powers, basically accept that the DS troll is the D&D troll, not a bad thing unless you happen to like RaFoaDK's depiction of trolls.
Me, NytCrawlr, and Mach2.5 each have a mini (few inches across) DS Boxed Set signed by Bill when we met him at GenCon '04. We didn't talk to him as I recall because there was this vibe coming off of him like his mind was elsewhere. Dunno if Nyt recalls it that way.
Doesn't really bother me either way but it is D&D. Lets assume for arguements sake Hamanu wipes out all the Trolls and that they were Trolls as per RaFoaDK. With spells like ressurection in the game any Cleric opposed to the cleansing war at minimum caster level has 130 years to find some Troll remains and raise them from the dead. Even if Hamanu found out after Rajaats imprisonment would he even care? Same deal with clone or spells that put creatures into suspended animation. A permanent gentle repose spell could extend this even further or make a ressurection via raise dead possable.
Mutating an essentially large ogre type monster (Trolls in RaFoaDK) into a D&D troll is easy in a wolrd of magic. Does Athas.org have any opinion if Trolls stil exist in Troll Grave Chasm as hinted at in the revised boxed set? Often thought about posting a Troll here but wonder about what sort of response it would get.
I need to go through all these in great detail and wouldn't want to miss anything...
I'm placing a flying fortress full of shadow-weaved moon elves that were transported there as slaves in the time before Netheril fell. In time they rebeled against the masters and overthrew them, but inexplicably were shafted from the plane of shadow into dark sun (don't ask). They captured and interrogated Lord Doomspike on matters concering current world regime, and are intent on ruling Athas by breeding magically engineered Athasian Pikachus and letting them loose to conquer the world. They are led by Porak, the moon elf Living Legend, who is of course Tribe of One, and wields Paldra, an ancient moon elven heavy flail of great mystical powers.
HACK'EM RULZ!!!!
I'm placing a flying fortress full of shadow-weaved moon elves that were transported there as slaves in the time before Netheril fell. In time they rebeled against the masters and overthrew them, but inexplicably were shafted from the plane of shadow into dark sun (don't ask). They captured and interrogated Lord Doomspike on matters concering current world regime, and are intent on ruling Athas by breeding magically engineered Athasian Pikachus and letting them loose to conquer the world. They are led by Porak, the moon elf Living Legend, who is of course Tribe of One, and wields Paldra, an ancient moon elven heavy flail of great mystical powers.
:whatsthis
:OMG! 
:rolleye2: 
That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard! Obviously you want to use Shadow-Weave tainted Star Elves, who are secertly in allegiance with the nilshanee
No no and no. In fact I decided I want to use the DROW, and they will all be chaotic good, dual wield scimitars and follow Elistraee who, being a good god, will be able to supply them with magic through some mystic link known only to her, so their clerics will be able to cast spells! It's going to be a blast, I'm telling you!
Me, NytCrawlr, and Mach2.5 each have a mini (few inches across) DS Boxed Set signed by Bill when we met him at GenCon '04. We didn't talk to him as I recall because there was this vibe coming off of him like his mind was elsewhere. Dunno if Nyt recalls it that way.
Damn, never did get that interview off to him...
I need to rework that ugly thing sometime.
Doesn't really bother me either way but it is D&D. Lets assume for arguements sake Hamanu wipes out all the Trolls and that they were Trolls as per RaFoaDK. With spells like ressurection in the game any Cleric opposed to the cleansing war at minimum caster level has 130 years to find some Troll remains and raise them from the dead. Even if Hamanu found out after Rajaats imprisonment would he even care? Same deal with clone or spells that put creatures into suspended animation. A permanent gentle repose spell could extend this even further or make a ressurection via raise dead possable.
Mutating an essentially large ogre type monster (Trolls in RaFoaDK) into a D&D troll is easy in a wolrd of magic. Does Athas.org have any opinion if Trolls stil exist in Troll Grave Chasm as hinted at in the revised boxed set? Often thought about posting a Troll here but wonder about what sort of response it would get.
As for the library on the bottom of the troll grave chasm I think I'm going to pass on that, thank you. As per RaFotDK, Hamanu killed the trolls by making them jump down (actually they did that on their own accord) and he didn't slaughter them as the adventure would have us believe. Not even a troll can survive a fall from a 500 foot high cliff, and would certainly not find any usable body parts if he did. I'm afraid I'll have to stick with the RaFotDK on this one.
Oh. As for the library on the bottom of the troll grave chasm, that contains you know what, I find it absurd. Really I do. It goes against everything we were taught about Dark Lens and the Pristine Tower in the Prism Pentad (which I DO consider canon) and the ridiculous explanation that 'Rajat put it there, just for kicks' so that anyone could find it is even more absurd. It took the power of the sun to transform the SKs into champions, not a 24 hour spell that will give them XY levels + all the metamorphoses stages. Ridiculous. Even if it DID exist I trully believe Borys or any other SK (quite possibly Hamanu, when revisiting the location of his final victory) would have sensed the power and found it. And destroyed it or used it (depends weather it was Hamanu or some other SK) in the 1000 years since the Clensing Wars. Cmon people, read the damn adventure again, it's preposterous.
Ergo - there's nothing there. Mud swamp - yes. Monsters as mud fiends - yes. Library - no.
Edit: So, Penn likes the dragon thingy, Kal likes the troll, while I personally wish the adventure did not exist.
Edit: So, Penn likes the dragon thingy, Kal likes the troll, while I personally wish the adventure did not exist.
Eh, for me it was an adventure that had a lot of potential, but then bombed horribly. Took me forever to get my hands on it, then when I finally did I was really dissappointed.
My issue is that making anything from the Green Age resemble Tolkien-style crap you would see in everyday FR is just a cop out to me.
It should be different, and yes it's going to take a long time to work it all out, and I'm totally fine with that. I say work it out and get it right, don't just take the easy approach because it's less work.
It should be different, and yes it's going to take a long time to work it all out, and I'm totally fine with that. I say work it out and get it right, don't just take the easy approach because it's less work.
You're rewriting it? Or did I misunderstand you? I'm not taking any easy approach as in deleting it, no, the library is gonna stay there when I get my hands on the troll grave chasm, it's just going to be more DSish - unaccessable and damn well guarded. As in - guarded by thirty meters of mud over it.
You're rewriting it? Or did I misunderstand you? I'm not taking any easy approach as in deleting it, no, the library is gonna stay there when I get my hands on the troll grave chasm, it's just going to be more DSish - unaccessable and damn well guarded. As in - guarded by thirty meters of mud over it.
Heh, that was just a rant, sorry, not directed at anyone specifically either.
Tired of seeing people ok with just letting the Green Age be nothing but another FR with psionics is all.
Mechanically speaking, you can't cast an epic spell if you ain't epic. More than that, you can't read an epic scroll and cast the spell (oh I'm sure I'm wrong somewhere, epic is not my forte), so the whole idea of staves that contain the dragon spells can't work in 3E anymore.
If it did work, I'd say the staves make you into a dragon, not give you athasian dragon levels, big difference. The first is from multiple epic spells, the latter is from taking on a PrC.
If it did work, I'd say the staves make you into a dragon, not give you athasian dragon levels, big difference. The first is from multiple epic spells, the latter is from taking on a PrC.
Yes, that would mean the person that cast that 24 hour spell would gain all the benefits (physical) of being a tenth-level dragon, while still being a, say, 21st lvl wizard (not even necessarily a psion!), and would become a very dangerous creature without the ability to use any dragon magic at all. What's the point then?
Yes, obviously 2e is no longer compatible with 3e, and while the other adventures are quite 'easely' converted, this one is flawed from the start. Ignoring the Grave problem with the troll the entire premise of transformation without taking any dragon levels at all, doesn't hold water. Theoretically it could, since the metamorphosis I is a requirement for taking the first level, but look at all what the idea mitigates - millions upon millions of Cp that don't need to be gathered, tens of thousands of HD the defiler doesn't need to slaughter, etc etc.
My point:
If I was rewriting the adventure in 3e, I'd put it like this: In those staves is the information needed to cast the dragon metamorphosis I spell. That's it. You can't cast it without the structure etc. So a potential epic defiler could walk in there, and if he had ALL the prerequisites he could learn how to do it without the tutorship of another dragon. That would be all he gained.
As for the troll issue.... argh! Trolls have regeneration, they don't live for thousands of years because of it. They do grow old and die. No matter if it's a RaFotDK troll or a D&D troll. again, if I was rewriting the adventure, I'd replace him with the RaFotDK troll, perhaps make him crazed due to the fact he lived far too long (magic immortality? mutation?) but he'd be a very intelligent adversary.
Tired of seeing people ok with just letting the Green Age be nothing but another FR with psionics is all.
Couldn't agree more, even though all the sources (I've seen) seem to indicate this. No way, just too incredibly dull and a total cop-out.
As for the troll issue.... argh! Trolls have regeneration, they don't live for thousands of years because of it. They do grow old and die. No matter if it's a RaFotDK troll or a D&D troll. again, if I was rewriting the adventure, I'd replace him with the RaFotDK troll, perhaps make him crazed due to the fact he lived far too long (magic immortality? mutation?) but he'd be a very intelligent adversary.
I dislike the idea that many characters other than the SKs have been hanging around since the cleansing wars or for 1000s of years. Surely they'd all be senile? Remember interview with a vampire? They all seemed to go wacko after a few regular lifespans. Maybe this calls for a new PrC: the demented.
And what are RaFotDK trolls? I got the impression from the Lynn Abbey notes they were more like trolls from other game systems, which I kinda liked more. Constant regeneration for an entire race is daft. You'd never be rid o them, champion or none! :P
So the whole idea of staves that contain the dragon spells can't work in 3E anymore.
If it did work, I'd say the staves make you into a dragon, not give you athasian dragon levels, big difference. The first is from multiple epic spells, the latter is from taking on a PrC.
Using epic rules epic staves can be made but require an epic caster to use them.
They would not grant the PRC.
These Items would be considered artifacts.