Dungeon Crafting in DS

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

zombiegleemax

Jan 31, 2006 1:16:30
Cooking up new and interesting challenges for Dark Sun campaigns has been a hobby of mine for some time now. One of my favorite little hack and slash sidequests is to introduce ruins near silt basins and hidden under salt deposits, or somehow driving the plot underground to present the players with such a challenge.

My question to all of you then--what do you think makes for a good DS dungeon? Naturally the nature of the dangers involved are a bit different than your standard Forgotten Realms foray into the lich's tower. What I would like to hear are some pointers, do's and don'ts with respect to the campaign setting.

I'm not sure if anybody else is particularly interested in the architecture involved in tablelands ruins, but any advice on this subject would be welcome. I always try to design traps and puzzles with an idea of who would be making them and for what reasons in the first place.

Also, I plan on starting a campaign beginning with the players as Gladiators in the Two Moon City pits. Does anyone know of any good underground ruins nearby Two Moon City circa free year 12?
#2

zombiegleemax

Jan 31, 2006 6:42:44
Don't know of any good ruins off the top of my head, uh, City By the Silt Sea was the first (I think only) major dungeon crawl for Dark Sun, and it goes down a few levels.
Some ideas for traps: Defiler magic traps that work like dragon magic: sucks the life out of living things to power it. So if PCs pass in front of the 'sensor eye', they have to make serious FORT saves or face dire peril. Could be something as simple as a dragonhead carved fire breathing trap, so they face double jeopardy with this one.
How about an Underdark type dungeon crawl where a major subterranean civilization once dwelled, and has been taken over by Tanar'ri or Baatezu who found their way to Athas, destroyed this civilization and have been conducting breeding experiments that resulted in the creation of a new race of half-fiends who multiplied and flourished over a few centuries?
Maybe an underground dungeon that descends into absolute darkness and is a planar bleed into the Black? You could say that Rajaat has been chipping away at his prison in the Hollow to escape through this planar bleed?
Just some thoughts.
#3

gilliard_derosan

Jan 31, 2006 9:07:51
The thing is, since Athas' history was high in power, magic and psionics, you can use nearly any dungeon setting. Novels imply that ancient Dwarves had beards, so it can be a safe assumption that ancient Athas was. . . well, more similar to a "typical" D&D setting. I used one of the published adventures that dealt with underground dungeon settings, and it worked just fine. It is easy to explain metal weapons too, because they may have been more abundant in the past.

As to who built these things.. well, far into Athas' past there were Orcs, Gnomes, and the like, so anyone could have constructed these, for any purpose. And then, if you go far enough back into Athas' past, things would have been built by halflings, for halflings, of even Thri-Kreen built hive structures. Maybe ancient Kreen built large structures using their dasl, so you could have aliens-style building exploration complete with feral, un-evolved Kreen still in a more insectlike and alien mindset.

Athas offers much diversability when it comes to subjects such as this, because a lot of the past is a mystery to even those who dwell on the planet. I am sure that you will get little to no complaints however you go here.
#4

dirk00001

Jan 31, 2006 9:54:47
In my games there's some sort of "Undercity" below each of the city-states, ala UnderTyr from the first Prism Pentad novel. Even in the real world you find many examples of this, with cities being built atop layer after layer of previous communities that either left the area and recolonized later, or their buildings burned down or were otherwise destroyed, etc. In my games, the big difference is what exactly they are - Urik is a normal undercity, a random collection of buildings and such connected via old streets that are now tunnels, buried under the current city-state and accessible via the sewer and various other entrances both known and unknown. In my current DS campaign, I decided that Balic wasn't a city in the Age of Magic, but (at best) a small town built over a large gnomish mine/underground city, the location where the last gnome was exterminated - so the undercity for (my) Balic is a haven for gnomish undead, who have been continuously mining deeper and deeper for the last 2000+ years.

Beyond that, as others have mentioned the greatest thing about Athas is that there could be ruins just about anywhere. If you just want to do a little side-adventure dungeon dive, the easiest place to do it would be in high badlands - those neighboring mountains - or in the mountains themselves - these locations were likely above water even as far back as the Blue Age, so odds are one community after another would have lived in them, and given the layout of badlands themselves it is very easy to justify how ruins could have gone unnoticed by others - all it would take is for a trade caravan to turn down the wrong gulley, or follow a different route due to their usual canyon having collapsed, and viola, look at that, it's ruins!

In any case, if you're going to throw a dungeon crawl into your Dark Sun game, IMO you really need to put some thought into what exactly the ruins were used for, and base the layout, traps, etc. on that. Temples dedicated to the ancient (non-existant) gods will have a totally different layout than a dwarven fort from the early Cleansing Wars would, for instance. A temple might also still have active spell- or psionic-traps (if they were fortunate enough to have the service of an elemental cleric or psion, of course), a keep might have a couple golems that are activated due to the PCs entering, etc.
#5

ruhl-than_sage

Jan 31, 2006 10:52:24
Hej-kin lairs in the ringing mountians also make for nice dungeons. Those evil little critters live underground and create elaborate tunnels. Also, evil cults of magma clerics are fun and would naturally have tunnel and chambers underground surrounding their volcano "god" that they are seeking to awaken. Just a couple of random ideas...
#6

Pennarin

Jan 31, 2006 11:13:57
Also, I plan on starting a campaign beginning with the players as Gladiators in the Two Moon City pits. Does anyone know of any good underground ruins nearby Two Moon City circa free year 12?

If you look at this pic and its description, and remember that its mentionned in some supplement somehwere as well, you can always say that there are old Draj-like ziggurats in the countryside near Draj. Those could have inner chambers.
#7

zombiegleemax

Jan 31, 2006 13:54:54
it is also mentioned in later supplemental material, Windriders of the Jagged Cliffs IIRC, that there are extensive tunnels and cavern systems wending their way from the Jagged Cliffs region all the way to the Tablelands to the coast of the Sea of Silt. one could conceivably make this the equivalent of an "Athasian Underdark"...though it would most likely be lacking in the standard underdark denizens - drow, illithid, beholder, duergar, derro, etc. - and probably be populated by creatures altogether unique to athas...strange life-shaped monsters, albino kreen-like species, dark spiders (ToA), hej-kin, and goodness knows what else!!

some areas may open up to long-buried Rhulisti ruins, or the ruins of Green Age races that may had the inclination to subterranean life (dwarves, orcs, maybe goblins). being from the Green Age, they would have all sorts of psionic wonders...psionic orbs, dilapidated psionic transportation systems, psionic weapons, and most fun...PSIONIC TRAPS and dangers unknown to the world above! weeee!
#8

Pennarin

Jan 31, 2006 14:10:04
Geez, you should be a spokesperson for the Athasian setting Brian!
#9

zombiegleemax

Feb 01, 2006 8:02:36
Thanks for the ideas, I appreciate them.

I especially liked the idea of defiler traps, sort of a double whammy.
#10

dirk00001

Feb 01, 2006 9:29:47
it is also mentioned in later supplemental material, Windriders of the Jagged Cliffs IIRC, that there are extensive tunnels and cavern systems wending their way from the Jagged Cliffs region all the way to the Tablelands to the coast of the Sea of Silt.

IIRC a lot of these tunnels are "subway tunnels" of sorts for Green Age psionic-powered transport devices ("trav-tunnels" as I call 'em). I can't remember where I read it, but I think it was in one of the game materials talking about various silt sea islands and how there are these tunnels lead out to some of them. In any case, I've involved these in my DS campaigns several times, so I can't imagine that it's *all* in my head. ;)
#11

Pennarin

Feb 01, 2006 12:13:28
IIRC a lot of these tunnels are "subway tunnels" of sorts for Green Age psionic-powered transport devices ("trav-tunnels" as I call 'em). I can't remember where I read it, but I think it was in one of the game materials talking about various silt sea islands and how there are these tunnels lead out to some of them. In any case, I've involved these in my DS campaigns several times, so I can't imagine that it's *all* in my head. ;)

Different thing, Dirk. The tunnels that connect the Jagged Cliffs to the rest of the Tablelands are rhulisti-made and date from the Blue Age or slightly afterwards.

The underground psionic highways you are describing date from the height of the Green Age, several thousand years later.

There is no connection mentionned in the setting books between the two.
#12

zombiegleemax

Feb 01, 2006 13:09:26
i'd imagine that through the years the collapse of certain tunnels and structures might lead to the opening up of deeper structures. tyr was built on an older city which was built upon Tyr'Agi the halfling city. so some of the deeper tunnels of undertyr may lead into the winding semi-organic caverns of the ancient halflings. same can be said about guistinal or some other underground green age dwellings and construction; but that would be about the only thing linking the two i think. overall they'd be wholly seperate from each other. i suppose some of the green age cultures could have utilized ancient halfling cavern systems to build their transportation tunnels though like modern day interstate highways that follow old wagon trails.
#13

dirk00001

Feb 01, 2006 15:39:39
Different thing, Dirk. The tunnels that connect the Jagged Cliffs to the rest of the Tablelands are rhulisti-made and date from the Blue Age or slightly afterwards.

The underground psionic highways you are describing date from the height of the Green Age, several thousand years later.

There is no connection mentionned in the setting books between the two.

Ah, okay - I don't recall reading about the Jagged Cliffs tunnels to begin with, so there ya go. Is that info just from the Jagged Cliffs book, or is it also discussed elsewhere?
#14

zombiegleemax

Feb 02, 2006 1:19:15
The idea of every city-state having it's own undercity makes tons of sense, actually. I've been recently reading up on the Nibenay gladiatorial arena, and it says the arena was originally a much higher structure, but years of constructing the city have given it its sunken appearance.
Maybe every city-state has the same type of temple in its undercity like the one in Verdant Passage that Agis, Ktandeo and Sadira were going to enter, but Agis was forbidden entry.
What was that called again, and are there any game products that mention them further? I think Verdant Passage said it was a temple to some forgotten deity.
#15

flindbar

Feb 02, 2006 3:59:31
The idea of every city-state having it's own undercity makes tons of sense, actually. I've been recently reading up on the Nibenay gladiatorial arena, and it says the arena was originally a much higher structure, but years of constructing the city have given it its sunken appearance.
Maybe every city-state has the same type of temple in its undercity like the one in Verdant Passage that Agis, Ktandeo and Sadira were going to enter, but Agis was forbidden entry.
What was that called again, and are there any game products that mention them further? I think Verdant Passage said it was a temple to some forgotten deity.

It was called the "Crimson Shrine" :D
#16

dirk00001

Feb 02, 2006 12:38:28
Many of the "official" illustrations of the city-states, and even towns, show them as built up on plateaus, above the surrounding area. And given that "stony barrens" are, basically, bedrock, that makes sense - you're not going to dig down into it to construct basements and such, you're going to keep building up above it.
#17

monastyrski

Feb 02, 2006 20:07:45
Tyrian iron mine is also a sort of dungeon. It was used this way in the Wake of the Ravager CRPG. So are the abandoned mines of the Green Age.