Just considering an adventure idea for my PCs. What sort of magic would be needed to survive etc. What is the enviroment like how hot/cold would it be in there along with random gusts of scalding steam. Balance checks required for combat, archery impossable. Normally I would say its impossable to survive there but its D&D which given enough magic you can generally survive in worse places like the elemental planes or in a normal campaign even the positive and negative energy planes.
A calm patch in the middle that could move around and expose different parts of the battered Ur Draxa ruins.
You could do an "eye of the hurricane" kinda deal.
A calm patch in the middle that could move around and expose different parts of the battered Ur Draxa ruins.
Not a bad idea. When its bad the survivors hide underground or something. Ur Draxas wards against teleportation would still be up I think and I'm not sure about the doom gate.
This also depends on how far and wide you wanted the centre (eye) to move.
Just Ur Draxa ?
The shattered plain ??
The whole valley of dust and fire ??
The length of time the eye stayed in one place may be a little as a few hours or as long a a week or so.
You could do an "eye of the hurricane" kinda deal.
A calm patch in the middle that could move around and expose different parts of the battered Ur Draxa ruins.
I agree, that's what is in our Campaign. Hurricane Tithian.
However, even with this cheerful news, survival with what's basically a living, raging hurricane overhead would be difficult, to put it mildly. And who's to say Borys may not have had a contingency spell set to go off if he was killed, one that would activate a clone of him, hidden in the gigantic city somewhere?
It's what I'd do if I were a meglomanic, total dictator-type of guy. :D
Borys had 25 kaishargas (where were they when he needed them?).
IMHO, Borys could not expect such a need. He went to fight Rajaat, not Rikus, and destroyers are usually kept away, when battleships fight.
The Valley of Dust and Fire hints that the Dragon may use a clone spell to survive being killed. Or would the way he died in the novels prevent that?
There are two problems:
- Psionic Artifacts of Athas, p. 29 says about the Scourge:
While two broken pieces of the sword are apart, each piece issues a black ichor. Anything that comes into contact with this ooze is consumed by it, eventually dissolving into nothingness.
It is not clear, whether "anything" means only body, or soul as well. - The 2E clone description begins with:
This spell creates a duplicate of a human, demihuman, or humanoid creature.
Its applicability to dragons, especially to full dragon Borys, is not clear too.
The Valley of Dust and Fire hints that the Dragon may use a clone spell to survive being killed. Or would the way he died in the novels prevent that?
I think that VoDaF was just trying to get across the point that it would be a VERY different Athas if the Dragon did in fact die... and thus STRONGLY suggests that the Dragon not die. It presents a number of ways that the Dragon could survive just in case the PCs somehow destroyed him. Of course, if Troy Denning wants to kill off the Dragon, that's fine, because it allows TSR to market a revised campaign setting.
Then again, Borys was pretty much consumed by Rajaat and the Black from the ichor of the broken Scourge... so I guess that would pretty much do him in, whether he had clones or not. His essence was consumed. (Of course, in my mind that opportunity should never have been afforded to Rikus, as he should not have survived the encounter with the 5 sorcerer-monarchs at the Gate of Doom. Even with the Scourge, he and Tithian should have been easily destroyed by their combined might.)
Well in book 5 I know a bunck of them got taken out when they tried to get the Scourge from Rikus.
Only a handful. Where the remaining are remains a mystery. I wouldn´t be surprised if they´re still in Ur Draxa (since they´re technically not ´living´ it doesn´t conflict with the source material). They could have any number of agendas, from exploring newfound freedom to internal disputes or trying to find a means to resurrect Borys.
... trying to find a means to resurrect Borys.
Due to lack of search, I cannot find if it was discussed here (I am sure that it was): can dragons (particularly Champions and others who surpassed the normal human lifespan) be restored to life anyhow, and if yes, why no one was resurrected before?
Due to lack of search, I cannot find if it was discussed here (I am sure that it was): can dragons (particularly Champions and others who surpassed the normal human lifespan) be restored to life anyhow, and if yes, why no one was resurrected before?
I wonder if Dregoth's method of "resurrection" is the only one that works.
In the case of Borys, I think the fact that his essence was claimed by Rajaat when the Scourge's black ichor consumed him makes his resurrection impossible.
Then again, Borys was pretty much consumed by Rajaat and the Black from the ichor of the broken Scourge... so I guess that would pretty much do him in, whether he had clones or not. His essence was consumed.
Here's a funny thought: Andropinis was cast into the Black by Rajaat, what if Borys was too? The ichor may have devoured his form from the material plane but could have easily transfered the Dragon of Tyr into the Black where he is trapped. That right there could defeat his clone spell back ups. Imagine if Borys came back as a Shadow Dragon? Vengeful and very, very hungry for life-force. Not only do the remaining three SKs of the Tablelands have to contend with Dregoth's ascension, they now have Borys back and in rampage or maybe something even worse, like as Rajaat's puppet?
Just a few thoughts.
-X
As for your thoughts- I like it. That would bave been a great way for Rajaat to kick out a huge blow for a renewal of the Cleansing Wars- with Borys on running amuck and the First Sorcerer back, the other SKs would have been powerless to take them both out.
Thats the great beginings of story arch if I ever saw one. Imagine several bestial dragons with no psionics or magic ravaging the Tyr region.
Whats do you think is inside the Derulean Storm. Rise and Fall of a Dragon King indicated that there were a handful of survivors in Ur Draxa and I assume the Dragons wards would be semi effective to keep pockets of people alive. At least water wouldn't be a problem. Constructs, Undead, and Elementals could also survive in the remnants of the Valley of Dust and Fire
Just considering an adventure idea for my PCs. What sort of magic would be needed to survive etc. What is the enviroment like how hot/cold would it be in there along with random gusts of scalding steam. Balance checks required for combat, archery impossable. Normally I would say its impossable to survive there but its D&D which given enough magic you can generally survive in worse places like the elemental planes or in a normal campaign even the positive and negative energy planes.
I generally consider it a lethal location to go near. I don't believe for a second that Rajaat is really imprisoned in the Hollow any more, but rather biding his time, as he solidifies his pacts with the four paraelemental planes. I believe the storm pouring down on the molten lava in the region is being used to form Rajaat's new body, an obsidian skeleton that is joined with the Dark Lens. I believe that everything there is dead (even if Rise and Fall suggested otherwise). Then again, it could be interesting if there was an "eye of the storm" where some survivors remain, in abject terror as they are first-hand witnesses to Rajaat's new crowning achievement of insanity.
Here's a funny thought: Andropinis was cast into the Black by Rajaat, what if Borys was too? The ichor may have devoured his form from the material plane but could have easily transfered the Dragon of Tyr into the Black where he is trapped. That right there could defeat his clone spell back ups. Imagine if Borys came back as a Shadow Dragon? Vengeful and very, very hungry for life-force. Not only do the remaining three SKs of the Tablelands have to contend with Dregoth's ascension, they now have Borys back and in rampage or maybe something even worse, like as Rajaat's puppet?
Just a few thoughts.
-X
Yeah, I had considered possibilities somewhere along these lines too. Even though I think Denning's original intent was to have Rajaat consume them, who's to say that we can't go out on a limb here?
Of course this would also open the possibility that Abalach-Re was also in the Black, since she too was consumed by the ichor from the Scourge. Imagine if Andropinis, Abalach-Re, AND Borys all got out somehow, assuming that they were merely trapped in the Black.
As for your thoughts- I like it. That would bave been a great way for Rajaat to kick out a huge blow for a renewal of the Cleansing Wars- with Borys on running amuck and the First Sorcerer back, the other SKs would have been powerless to take them both out.
That's what I'm thinking. I saw a thread a little while back about Athasian Shadow Dragons, and some of the brains of that thread could be used to make a fairly interesting scenario. Borys could quite possibly become a soulless vessel for Rajaat's wrath or he could be an insane monster that's devestating everything while Rajaat climbs out of his obsidian bath hiding the Dark Lens inside of his ribcage or as his stomach (imagine a pregnant Rajaat skeleton?) and ready to show all of the Rebirth races why he was titled the "Warbringer".
If Borys' soul was consumed as well as his body, it could be that his clones (if he had any) are just mindless beasts now.
Thats the great beginings of story arch if I ever saw one. Imagine several bestial dragons with no psionics or magic ravaging the Tyr region.
Good idea Sysane, I could see that being an amazingly good plot arc for adventurers of decent level to go after. Have the faux Borys clones following in the wake of Tyr storms maybe? Another idea is is that they still retain the ability to defile energy from plants and living beings and regain hit points instead of power spells. Or have that life energy start to mutate and warp them into very different creatures?
2 ceramic tossed in the well,
-X
Yeah, I had considered possibilities somewhere along these lines too. Even though I think Denning's original intent was to have Rajaat consume them, who's to say that we can't go out on a limb here?
Of course this would also open the possibility that Abalach-Re was also in the Black, since she too was consumed by the ichor from the Scourge. Imagine if Andropinis, Abalach-Re, AND Borys all got out somehow, assuming that they were merely trapped in the Black.
Hmm, I'd say as Andropinis was sent bodily into the Black and not consumed by evil death ichor, he's in there all well and nice (as canon states) but as Abalach-Re went the route of ichor, she might have been consumed. Borys was significantly stronger than her and he might be able to survive. If she did survive, she'd be an awful state and fodder for the stronger Andropinis or injured Borys (maybe a taste snack and source of fuel for the enraged Dragon of Tyr?).
-X
Hmm, I'd say as Andropinis was sent bodily into the Black and not consumed by evil death ichor, he's in there all well and nice (as canon states) but as Abalach-Re went the route of ichor, she might have been consumed. Borys was significantly stronger than her and he might be able to survive. If she did survive, she'd be an awful state and fodder for the stronger Andropinis or injured Borys (maybe a taste snack and source of fuel for the enraged Dragon of Tyr?).
-X
Heh heh, I like the way you think. :D I personally don't believe that Re or Borys survived, at least not in their pre-ichor forms. Maybe a slow consumption through the Black was good revenge for Rajaat. Then again, I don't care much for the way the official campaign turned post-Pentad and haven't ever run a campaign in that time, so it really doesn't apply to me game-wise. Still, it's fun to speculate.
Heh heh, I like the way you think. :D I personally don't believe that Re or Borys survived, at least not in their pre-ichor forms. Maybe a slow consumption through the Black was good revenge for Rajaat. Then again, I don't care much for the way the official campaign turned post-Pentad and haven't ever run a campaign in that time, so it really doesn't apply to me game-wise. Still, it's fun to speculate.
*bows graciously* Why thank you ;)
Abalach-Re never really peaked my interests at all, so I didn't care all that much about her being killed. I kind of like the idea of Raam being the city of chaos without her. As far as Borys... as I said above, maybe Borys has become a shadow dragon? He would certainly not retain his pre-ichor form, nor his mind more than likely (I liken being devoured by the Rajaat-goop as being sucked into the black through a hole the size of a pencil... and Borys was awfully big).
Speculation is all we have at this point ;) At least until the folks at Athas.org release something else for us to play around with and chat about at any rate.
-X
? For use in a campaign I mean..."Oh no, the bad guys are back. What a surprise. Well, we better incarcerate them for real this time. Really, really real. So much better than offing them permanently, yup." If athas.org ever releases any metagame material (I'm betting greyorm is really looking forward to that :D), I hope they take it in another direction
We spend so much time thinking about the past of this world that we don't often think enough on future (or at least post a coherant thread all that often about it). But until new metagame stuff comes out from Athas.org (and those guys have plenty on their plate as is) I think speculating the past and how its monsters can continue to trouble the present and possible futures is one of the only viable things we have.
One thought I've always had about the world of Athas is, well, what else is out there? Athas is a whole planet after all. It's kind of like how the only part of Krynn anyone knows or cares about is Ansalon when there is a whole nother continent out there called Taladas. What's that place up to and how is it effecting things? Well I imagine there are other kingdoms and tablelands so to speak on Athas. Do they have Sorcerer Kings? Are they ruled by Avangions maybe? Are they all overrun by the Kreen Empire (if it's that expansive)? Some kind of outside force from the Tablelands with intact metal mines and powerful psionics perhaps? Or an entire kingdom of druids, psions and elemental clerics who oppose all arcane magic to the point of myopic violence and ruled by a council of terrible god-kings of supreme elemental power and psionic might?
Just some of my speculations. I might make a thread about it...
-X
Not to rain on your parade or anything (I think the ideas in this thread are really good for the most part), but does anyone else but me find the idea of another Rajaat/Borys/etc story arc totally
If athas.org ever releases any metagame material (I'm betting greyorm is really looking forward to that :D), I hope they take it in another direction
I've not been fond of bringing back any of the dead SK's, with the exceptions of maybe Kalid-Ma (with a Ravenloft bent to my campaign). Rajaat, however, I have strongly considered bringing back to my campaign -- an ancient, ultimate evil that never truely can be destroyed -- only postponed at the most.
I've not been fond of bringing back any of the dead SK's, with the exceptions of maybe Kalid-Ma (with a Ravenloft bent to my campaign). Rajaat, however, I have strongly considered bringing back to my campaign -- an ancient, ultimate evil that never truely can be destroyed -- only postponed at the most.
Seconded on all accounts for similiar reasons. Having the PCs bang spells and swords with Rajaat is really one of the ultimate end of campaign fun things to try out. And bringing back Kalid-Ma would be a lot of fun as well. That jerk succeeded first at the same plan that Kalak used.
-X
One thought I've always had about the world of Athas is, well, what else is out there? Athas is a whole planet after all.... What's that place up to and how is it effecting things? ... Are they all overrun by the Kreen Empire (if it's that expansive)?
I personally enjoyed Tim Brown's idea that the entire Tablelands were surrounded by a vast and seemingly insurmountable Kreen Empire. It just seemed really "icky" (for lack of a better word). Then again, I prefer the original version of Athas--Tim Brown and Troy Denning's original vision--to the revised setting after the Prism Pentad.
I also do not favor the idea of bringing the sorcerer-kings back, nor do I really favor having Rajaat come back *again* ... it was just speculation on the part of Xanthus and myself. As I said before, I usually always set my campaigns before the events of the Pentad, so even Kalak is still around.
If athas.org ever releases any metagame material (I'm betting greyorm is really looking forward to that ), I hope they take it in another direction.
LOL
Although, I do have to say that I agreed with him to an extent. I'm pretty sure athas.org won't release any metagame material, since they really focus more on rules conversion, but what kind of direction would you like to see? My big two were the aforementioned Tim Brown Kreen Empire and Dregoth's ill-fated attempt to become a god (which has been handled by Dregoth Ascending).Although, I do have to say that I agreed with him to an extent. I'm pretty sure athas.org won't release any metagame material, since they really focus more on rules conversion, but what kind of direction would you like to see?
There's a thread or about this, but forwarding the story line with the coming of the Messenger and the alleged rhulisti aboard the comet would be great IMO.
There's a thread or about this, but forwarding the story line with the coming of the Messenger and the alleged rhulisti aboard the comet would be great IMO.
Oops, I didn't see that thread... and I didn't remember having read it either so was it a while ago or am I just blind?
Messenger sounds pretty cool too. I was kind of interested where they would go with that.
LOL
I would personally _love_ a thri-kreen story arc, especially since that's the direction I'm taking my campaign in
I'd prefer it if any metagame material would stay away from the sorcerer-kings and Rajaat, but that's me. But as you said, I doubt athas.org will release any in the near future, especially since they're not allowed to mess with the big characters too much...
I would personally _love_ a thri-kreen story arc, especially since that's the direction I'm taking my campaign in
I was laying the groundwork for an Urik based military campaign dealing with the invading Kreens. I think Urik would be the best place for a war campaign purely do to the very active SK they have. I second this motion :D
-X
I would personally _love_ a thri-kreen story arc, especially since that's the direction I'm taking my campaign in
Just something about the inevitable invasion of legions of altered kreen both makes my skin crawl and really interests me. I just remember reading that idea in one of the Q&A sessions with Tim Brown and thinking "oh yeah, that's nasty."
I'd prefer it if any metagame material would stay away from the sorcerer-kings and Rajaat, but that's me.
That's me as well... I don't really feel like killing my PCs off by having them square off with godlike beings. I guess Denning could get away with it because, well, it's his creation... but seriously, the sorcerer-kings should have annihilated Rikus, Sadira, and the like (not to mention what Rajaat should have done... some godlike First Sorcerer). To me, squaring off with the SKs was just death waiting to happen... better to have some more appealing and significantly less fatal story arcs... though on Athas, significantly less fatal can still be quite deadly.