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Metal versions of athasian weapons?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
bengeldorn
Mar 16, 2006 1:04:30 I have a fighter in my groupe, who has Weapon Focus [Macahuitl] and Weapon Specialisation [Macahuitl] and I'm thinking about gving her a metal weapon, so that she would be able to use it against monsters, that have DR X/metal.

Now I have these choices and problems:
1. I give her a metal macahuitl, so she would be able to use it with her feats. But is it possible to make macahuitl out of metal? Does the weapon's stats change? AFAK there are no metal macahuitls.
2. I give her a metal scimitar. What happens with her feats? If macahuitls and scimitars are considered as different weapons for weapon focus and weapon specialisation, then a fighter would be penalized for taking athasian weapons.

The ds3_r6.odf says "These weapons are swung like the scimitar", does this mean that a macahuitl is considered as a scimitar for weapon focus and weapon specialisation?

Now, I'm thinking further. What about other athasian weapons? Are there metal versions of theses weapons? If there are metal versions, how do the stats for these weapons change, or are they considered as masterwork weapons?

I apologize for being vague, but I don't know how to say it in other words.
#2
kilamar
Mar 16, 2006 2:02:19 a: The weapon ist not a scimitar. The flavour text just explains how the weapon works.
b: It should be possible to make the weapon out of metal.
c: If you do that, the stats will not change.

Kilamar
#3
netherek
Mar 16, 2006 2:06:30 Seems to me, that based on the mechanics of a Macahuitl and Great Macahuitl that they are a long sword and great sword respectively. Though the description might state otherwise. If you like you could rule that it can qualify under the scimitar proficiency as they use similar style.

I would just say that a metal macahuitl is just a metal macahuitl, or rule that they are just longswords or scimitars (depending on how you want to do it) and that is her proficiency. Hope that helps...
#4
Zardnaar
Mar 16, 2006 2:13:53 A metal version of an Athasian weapon of course will have a higher hardness number.
#5
jon_oracle_of_athas
Mar 16, 2006 7:04:12 I would rule on a case by casis if this became an issue in my campaign.

A carrikal, by definition is "made by lashing a length of mekillot bone to the jawbone of a jozhal. The sharp ridges of the teeth run down half the length of the bone handle, while the hinges of the jaw are sharpened to a keen edge". How do you create a metal equivalent of that?

A macahuitl I can picture a metal equivalent of. Either replace the row of obsidian spikes with metal spikes (allowing to surpass DR/Metal, but not increasing the weapon's overall hardness/hp), or crafting a metal blade with serrated edge (allowing to surpass DR/metal and changing hardness/hp to the equivalent of a greatsword).

In both cases, I would allow the feats you mention to function. However, a scimitar has nothing to do with a macahuitl. They wouldn't work with a scimitar.
#6
bengeldorn
Mar 16, 2006 14:48:49 Well, thanks for all the replies. This realy helped, although I think it's odd that when you have a bone longsword, you have other stats than when you have a metal longsword. But when you have a athsian weapon made of metal, the stats doesn't change.

Btw. how much would a metal version of a macahuitl cost?
#7
jon_oracle_of_athas
Mar 16, 2006 15:47:08
But when you have a athsian weapon made of metal, the stats doesn't change.

As illustrated by my example, the hardness would change if the majority of the weapon is upgraded to metal. Athasian weapons are in general designed to take advantage of their materials, for example the above mentioned carrikal. You wouldn't be able to replicate that with metal and thus you're not eligible to any additional effects except hardness increase.
#8
bengeldorn
Mar 16, 2006 16:31:54
As illustrated by my example, the hardness would change if the majority of the weapon is upgraded to metal. Athasian weapons are in general designed to take advantage of their materials, for example the above mentioned carrikal. You wouldn't be able to replicate that with metal and thus you're not eligible to any additional effects except hardness increase.

I see. Again, thanks for the quick reply.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 bengeldorn Mar 16, 2006 1:04:30	I have a fighter in my groupe, who has Weapon Focus [Macahuitl] and Weapon Specialisation [Macahuitl] and I'm thinking about gving her a metal weapon, so that she would be able to use it against monsters, that have DR X/metal. Now I have these choices and problems: 1. I give her a metal macahuitl, so she would be able to use it with her feats. But is it possible to make macahuitl out of metal? Does the weapon's stats change? AFAK there are no metal macahuitls. 2. I give her a metal scimitar. What happens with her feats? If macahuitls and scimitars are considered as different weapons for weapon focus and weapon specialisation, then a fighter would be penalized for taking athasian weapons. The ds3_r6.odf says "These weapons are swung like the scimitar", does this mean that a macahuitl is considered as a scimitar for weapon focus and weapon specialisation? Now, I'm thinking further. What about other athasian weapons? Are there metal versions of theses weapons? If there are metal versions, how do the stats for these weapons change, or are they considered as masterwork weapons? I apologize for being vague, but I don't know how to say it in other words.
#2 kilamar Mar 16, 2006 2:02:19	a: The weapon ist not a scimitar. The flavour text just explains how the weapon works. b: It should be possible to make the weapon out of metal. c: If you do that, the stats will not change. Kilamar
#3 netherek Mar 16, 2006 2:06:30	Seems to me, that based on the mechanics of a Macahuitl and Great Macahuitl that they are a long sword and great sword respectively. Though the description might state otherwise. If you like you could rule that it can qualify under the scimitar proficiency as they use similar style. I would just say that a metal macahuitl is just a metal macahuitl, or rule that they are just longswords or scimitars (depending on how you want to do it) and that is her proficiency. Hope that helps...
#4 Zardnaar Mar 16, 2006 2:13:53	A metal version of an Athasian weapon of course will have a higher hardness number.
#5 jon_oracle_of_athas Mar 16, 2006 7:04:12	I would rule on a case by casis if this became an issue in my campaign. A carrikal, by definition is "made by lashing a length of mekillot bone to the jawbone of a jozhal. The sharp ridges of the teeth run down half the length of the bone handle, while the hinges of the jaw are sharpened to a keen edge". How do you create a metal equivalent of that? A macahuitl I can picture a metal equivalent of. Either replace the row of obsidian spikes with metal spikes (allowing to surpass DR/Metal, but not increasing the weapon's overall hardness/hp), or crafting a metal blade with serrated edge (allowing to surpass DR/metal and changing hardness/hp to the equivalent of a greatsword). In both cases, I would allow the feats you mention to function. However, a scimitar has nothing to do with a macahuitl. They wouldn't work with a scimitar.
#6 bengeldorn Mar 16, 2006 14:48:49	Well, thanks for all the replies. This realy helped, although I think it's odd that when you have a bone longsword, you have other stats than when you have a metal longsword. But when you have a athsian weapon made of metal, the stats doesn't change. Btw. how much would a metal version of a macahuitl cost?
#7 jon_oracle_of_athas Mar 16, 2006 15:47:08	But when you have a athsian weapon made of metal, the stats doesn't change. As illustrated by my example, the hardness would change if the majority of the weapon is upgraded to metal. Athasian weapons are in general designed to take advantage of their materials, for example the above mentioned carrikal. You wouldn't be able to replicate that with metal and thus you're not eligible to any additional effects except hardness increase.
#8 bengeldorn Mar 16, 2006 16:31:54	As illustrated by my example, the hardness would change if the majority of the weapon is upgraded to metal. Athasian weapons are in general designed to take advantage of their materials, for example the above mentioned carrikal. You wouldn't be able to replicate that with metal and thus you're not eligible to any additional effects except hardness increase. I see. Again, thanks for the quick reply.