Twilight Soldier template

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

kalthandrix

Mar 24, 2006 22:43:31
Here is a joint creation of cnahumck and myself- I took the great idea that cnahumck had and he let me run with it a bit- thanks C. Nytcrawlr gets an honorable mention due to his comments and editorial efforts too.

Comments and questions are welcome. There will be an Epic spell to come, a location- the Hall of Twilight, and more detail on my new material I have been working on for a while called Grey-forged steel.

Twilight Soldier template

Born of need and with the aid of very powerful psioncs and magic during the most desperate hours of the Cleansing Wars, the process to create the perfect weapon was finished and the end was born in the Hall of Twilight. It is only in the Hall that one can undergo the process to take on the twilight soldier template.

Creating a Twilight Soldier

“Twilight Soldier”, or “Grey Man” as they have also been called, can be added to any humanoid creature (hereafter referred to as the “base creature”) except for halflings and nikaals, attempting to do so always results in the creature horribly twisted death as the process causes them to implode.

Size and Type:
When a creature becomes a twilight soldier, their type becomes Outsider (native, psionic), but their size remains the same as the base creature.

Hit Dice: As base creature plus two additional racial Hit Dice. These racial Hit Dice give the base creature an additional 2d8 hit points, a +2 to their base attack bonus and +3 to all saves.

Speed: As base creature +10.

Attacks: A twilight soldier gains a slam attack based on its size, as described in the Monsters Manual.

Natural Armor: Twilight soldiers develop slightly thicker skin and their flesh becomes much more dense, granting them a natural armor bonus of +2.

Psi-like Abilities (Sp): A twilight soldier with a Wisdom or Charisma score of 8 or higher has two or more psi-like abilities depending on its Hit Dice, as indicated on the table below. The abilities are cumulative and unless other wise noted the abilities are useable once per day. Manifester level equals the creature’s HD and the save DC is Charisma-based. All powers are automatically augmented for the twilight soldier’s manifester level.

HD Psi-like Abilities<br /> 1-2 [i]Defensive precognition[/i], [i]empty mind[/i] (3/day), [i]offensive precognition<br /> 3-4 [i][/i]Dimension swap[/i] (2/day), [i]offensive prescience[/i]<br /> 5-6 [i]Psionic lion&#8217;s charge[/i]<br /> 7-8 [i]Hustle[/i] (3/day), [i]ectoplasmic form[/i]<br /> 9-10 [i]Evade burst[/i] (3/day), [i]ubiquitous vision[/i] (at will)<br /> 11-12 [i]Mental barrier[/i]<br /> 13-14 [i]Energy adaptation[/i], [i]inertial barrier[/i]<br /> 15-16 [i]Psychofeedback[/i]<br /> 17-18 [i]Dispelling Buffer[/i] (3/day)<br /> 19-20 [i]Personal mind blank[/i]
#2

jaanos

Mar 25, 2006 21:20:52
Looks good... has given me some ideas for the "Grey Soul" (advanced undead being) that i'm working on.

Jaanos
#3

rjtrotter

Mar 26, 2006 6:02:06
Nice work guys! Going to try this today in my game will let you know how it works...
#4

kalthandrix

Mar 28, 2006 18:39:03
Thaks guys - I hope that this worked out for you BTW rjtrotter- I would like to know how it went if you want to share.

One another note-

I have to say that I am a bit disappointed on the lack of community feedback on this template

I had hoped that this would spir on a whole new and interesting section of creation that we could all use to try and flesh out the Green Age and the Cleansing War era and that there would be plenty of people out there who would find the concept interesting- come on now- a new template, a new special material, an exotic location, and an epic spell all kind of introduced in one package and it only sparked who responses.

Disappointment does not even begin to really discribe it I guess...
#5

cnahumck

Mar 28, 2006 20:37:31
Yeah, I have to agree with you on htis one Kal. This started with my vision of the end of the cleansing wars, and a general lack of interest in the "when did they become dragons" and "when could they grant spells" debates that surface every few weeks or months.

Let me open this up to a general debate: What do people envision the Cleansing Wars to be like? What tactics were used? What groups OPPOSED Rajaat. We know that some survived. there are still preservers around after all. So, what is up guys? Surely we don't think that all resistance went away just cause the champions locked up Rajaat?

What do people think? Is this an area that anyone cares about, or should Kal and I work up the entire Green Age and Cleansing Wars period and then let you guys in. We are talking about 8,000 years of history or so. Not even a little bite guys?
#6

rjtrotter

Mar 29, 2006 10:04:43
Thaks guys - I hope that this worked out for you BTW rjtrotter- I would like to know how it went if you want to share.

It went great. One of the players found a epic grey-forged sword. One of its special powers would transform a warrior into a "Twilight Soldier”, the player was able to fight off a epic paragone demon (CR 31!) with just seven hits. I think he got 5 critical hits with the thing and did over 500 damage to the demon. He realy likes it!
#7

kalthandrix

Mar 31, 2006 14:41:48
It went great. One of the players found a epic grey-forged sword. One of its special powers would transform a warrior into a "Twilight Soldier”, the player was able to fight off a epic paragone demon (CR 31!) with just seven hits. I think he got 5 critical hits with the thing and did over 500 damage to the demon. He realy likes it!

Well it is your game and it sounds fun- I have to point out though that epic spells cannot be stored in an item though- but maybe the sword had the mind of the twilight soldier's creator in it and he took control of the character and manifested the epic power - but then again the power would only work within the Twilight Hall (it is like the foucs of the power- but then again maybe it was only needed so the process did not kill the powers manifestor) so when the power was brought forth, it killed off the powers creator who was in the sword and left the PC as a twilight warrior.

I would like to see the weapon that you made with the enchantments and all-
#8

xanthus

Apr 03, 2006 21:20:50
Over all, the mechanics of the template are pretty cut and dry and work fairly well. The template seems balance for it's LA and grants some pretty substantial power.

As far as fluff... I guess I find this to be a little too far for the opposition to do this. For one, a special place and spell that creates Twilight Soldiers just seems to much like "Diet Champion" to me. I like the idea of the Champions of Rajaat and really anything like them (Sun Wizards, for instance) being unique to the Warbringer and his ilk. Thinking more into, I believe that if the preservers were willing to tap into the Grey and destroy a man or woman's soul to create a warrior... they're pretty much headed over to the other side. Not saying that preservers are all good, but the majority of them would be and the majority of them would be kind of against this sort practice I feel.

As far as my answer to the Preserver Jihad that Rajaat had initiated and the birth of the Cleansing Wars... I think that when the Jihad first started it was probably pretty much his loyalists storming into wizarding academies and simply killing everyone there recklessly and having no problem looting and burning the knowledge of the preservers. When it came down to it, Rajaat was thoroughly disinterested in retaining the knowledge of preserving magic as the halflings he loved were incapable of wielding those powers. Use the more powerful defiling magic and simply fix the problem later, I believe was his feeling. When the war started to get desperate for the preservers, I honestly believe that they'd simply run and hide, protect and vault up any knowledge of their works and ways for future preservers and get the heck out of Dodge. Scatter to the four winds and become reclusive, keep their arcane magic to themselves and keep under the radar as it were. When the cleansing wars started, the preservers of the to-be-Cleansed races would have stood up again and fought valiantly and died with their race. Some of the human ones may have also never laid down their arms and continued to fight...and die at the hands of the Champions if they interfered.

The First Sorcerer would have definitely known of the creation of such a place as the Hall of Twilight and sought it out to either harness it's powers and use them against his foes or simply destroyed it out of hand. If the preservers who refused to lay down and hide created this, then maybe I could see the Hall being made and some Twilight Soldiers being made... before Rajaat found them and destroyed them all. Some of those preservers may have lived or hidden away their research (and some suspended animation Twilight Soldiers) and the "recipe" for making a Twilight Soldier. If that's the case, any would be user of this knowledge would either have to recreate the Hall or find and repair the original. Or some adventuring PC heroes could find a reliquery for where a Twilight Soldier was secreted away.

Personally, I'd not use a connection to the Grey for this. I'd sooner use... I dunno, power from the Moons maybe? Ral and Guthay may not be nearly as strong as Athas's sun but they certainly may contain some measure of power. From the moons maybe the Twilight Soldiers could gain powers. Almost like reverse Sun Wizards? They become strongest when the Moons shine in the sky and they gain the powers of the template. I guess I thematically just don't like the idea of Preservers toying with death energy to create super psychic weapons. Too close to being undead for my liking.

Anyways, my 2 cents and a little bit of my thoughts as far as the Green Age.

-X
#9

Pennarin

Apr 04, 2006 3:05:32
Effect of this thread on me brain: "Gha wha bhla dha wha pha...!!!"

Aroo? What is it exactly? Can't quite define it, or categorize it.

. . .

Help?
#10

kalthandrix

Apr 04, 2006 7:37:34
That was....insightful?

As for your comments xanthus, thanks.

I also mentioned that I was unsure of the connection to the Grey when this idea was first hatched, but here was my rational.

The TS were created during the the last centurary of the Cleansing Wars, not during the Preserver Jihad, and after over a thousand years of fighting, the 'good' guys were desperate to find a way to stop Rajaat. Now, during any prolonged confrontation, there will be some who will stop at nothing to end the fighting, going so far as to sacrifice themselves for the cause if needed. So there would be those willing to undergo the process to transform themselves into living weapons to accomplish this 'higher' goal.

As for the process its self- it mostly involves psionics, a mixture of a modified version of energy current power used to summom energy from the Grey and and epic power with the transform, creation, energy, and ward power seeds (greater detail on the epic power to come).

As for Rajaat knowing about the Twilight Hall, well he was not omnisent- he was more likely then not wrapped up in his own affairs. IIRC I do not think he left the Pristine Tower while the Wars were being conducted, and the Champions were focused on their respective Races- so overlooking the activities of a small group of psions and a preserver or two is reasonable.

I do like the idea of using the moons though, but I would have to totally retool this template, which is not out of the question depending.

I really would like to hear what some of you others on the board think- would seeing the epic power and other details be more helpful in determining the type of energy the TS draw upon for their power, or would you just like to see a version of this template with changes made to allow them to take advantage of the moons?
#11

xanthus

Apr 04, 2006 10:02:19
That was....insightful?

As for your comments xanthus, thanks.

My pleasure. Btw, I think you may have broken Pennarin. ;)

I also mentioned that I was unsure of the connection to the Grey when this idea was first hatched, but here was my rational.

The TS were created during the the last centurary of the Cleansing Wars, not during the Preserver Jihad, and after over a thousand years of fighting, the 'good' guys were desperate to find a way to stop Rajaat. Now, during any prolonged confrontation, there will be some who will stop at nothing to end the fighting, going so far as to sacrifice themselves for the cause if needed. So there would be those willing to undergo the process to transform themselves into living weapons to accomplish this 'higher' goal.

Okay, I guess I must have missed somewhere in here that this was Cleansing War answer, but some of my above statements could be changed slightly to fit a possible timeline of events that lead to the creation of the Twilight Soldiers.

As for the process its self- it mostly involves psionics, a mixture of a modified version of energy current power used to summom energy from the Grey and and epic power with the transform, creation, energy, and ward power seeds (greater detail on the epic power to come).

As for Rajaat knowing about the Twilight Hall, well he was not omnisent- he was more likely then not wrapped up in his own affairs. IIRC I do not think he left the Pristine Tower while the Wars were being conducted, and the Champions were focused on their respective Races- so overlooking the activities of a small group of psions and a preserver or two is reasonable.

Okay, Rajaat's non-omnisence is fair. If it was during the Cleansing Wars he'd be too busy gibbering to himself in the Pristine Tower and fawning over his last Champion and how he was going to totally kill everyone under 3 feet tall.

I do like the idea of using the moons though, but I would have to totally retool this template, which is not out of the question depending.

I really would like to hear what some of you others on the board think- would seeing the epic power and other details be more helpful in determining the type of energy the TS draw upon for their power, or would you just like to see a version of this template with changes made to allow them to take advantage of the moons?

I would at the very least be interested in seeing what the Epic Power and such would look like to fuel such a transformation. But I'd also like to see this not be attached to the Grey. My rationale is that Rajaat would summon power from the sun and thus his Champions would be bound to the sun. The preservers and psions fighting the Champions would eventually make the connection and put two and two together. They might then counter by drawing on the other two celestial bodies in the heavens for power. The Champions are strongest by day, the Twilight Soldiers are strongest by night. The Hall of Twilight could possibly be a naturally occuring geological formation (maybe like a huge geode with a tiny hole in the top that sets the place all aglow when the moons rise to full). If the geode idea fits, then the crystals inside could easily be the focus for the epic level power and with moonlight streaming all about inside of it, might be kind of neat.

I figure that the Grey, the Black, the Cerulean Storm and the Sun itself get enough props in this setting, I think that Ral and Guthay need a little more love these days.

-X
#12

kalthandrix

Apr 04, 2006 10:20:53
Where are you getting the idea that the Champs are in any way linked to the sun? The sun was used as a fuel source for their transformation, but that was it. Sadira is the only one in the canon material that is in any way actually linked with the sun- which is why she is the only sun wizard.

I like the geode idea though- I will steal it :D .

The reason they are called twilight soldiers is not because of any celestial movement- it it because they were susposed to emerge as the 'great weapon' to be used against the Champians during the the time that is seemed thatRajaats mad plan was going to succeed (a la the twilight of the races).

Here is a alternate idea- they are not bound to a energy source like the Grey or the moos or sun, but instead they were linked to a place- the Twilight Hall, which like you said could be a geode with an opening- the crystals could gather the latent energy of the sun, moon, and stars (the light) and act as a focus to channel energy into those connected to it.

Now the reason that they were not put into play during the war was because of the rising silt seas- the silt storms began to block out the light and soon the silt seas rose up to cover the place the where the Twilight Hall was located.
#13

xanthus

Apr 04, 2006 11:38:12
Where are you getting the idea that the Champs are in any way linked to the sun? The sun was used as a fuel source for their transformation, but that was it. Sadira is the only one in the canon material that is in any way actually linked with the sun- which is why she is the only sun wizard.

I get the idea that they are linked to the sun because a great deal of it's power was used to fuel the transformations of the Champions into, well, Champions and as energy can never be destroyed, it's pretty much stuck inside the Champions (at least in my interpretation). So they've got a Diehard 10trillion volt solar battery inside of them in my mind.

I like the geode idea though- I will steal it :D .

The reason they are called twilight soldiers is not because of any celestial movement- it it because they were susposed to emerge as the 'great weapon' to be used against the Champians during the the time that is seemed thatRajaats mad plan was going to succeed (a la the twilight of the races).

Here is a alternate idea- they are not bound to a energy source like the Grey or the moos or sun, but instead they were linked to a place- the Twilight Hall, which like you said could be a geode with an opening- the crystals could gather the latent energy of the sun, moon, and stars (the light) and act as a focus to channel energy into those connected to it.

Now the reason that they were not put into play during the war was because of the rising silt seas- the silt storms began to block out the light and soon the silt seas rose up to cover the place the where the Twilight Hall was located.

Well, I definitely got the impression that Twilight Soldier had the meaning of "twilight of our battle". As far as the alternate idea, (the moos? oh man... powered by cows! j/k) the crystal chamber of the Hall collecting and redirecting the sunlight, moonlight and starlight into a cohesive power and with epic spellcasting/manifesting infusing that energy into a human body is pretty decent. I still like the idea of the moons, but that is a definitely feasible and attractive idea to me. When they're using their power the start to emit faerie like sparks of twinkling lights and their eyes glow and they bleach of color or something.

As far as why the Twilight Soldiers never saw the true war, the rising silt seas and say, a Champion's purge was nearing the chamber so the preservers and psions abandoned the project briefly and by the time they returned (if they weren't killed) the chamber had been buried in silt and ashes. Some of their first soldiers were still say, resting in stasis from the change. Maybe when the transformation is enacted the prospective Twilight Soldier is encased in crystal/crystallized ectoplasm and they sleep in stasis until a certain condition is met (i.e. a presever and/or psion cast a spell/power at it). There could be an entire secret building under the wastes attached to this crystal geode chamber where thereis a room filled with crystal sarcophagi containing ready made soldiers for the war against the Champions!

Let's keep the ball rollin' here ;)
-X
#14

rjtrotter

Apr 04, 2006 16:55:43
Okay Kel I'll post it once I make the changes needed after you pointed out the mistakes.

#15

cnahumck

Apr 04, 2006 17:30:49
O.k., let’s get into this. As this is was originally my brainchild that was wonderfully worked into the creature it is today, I think it is fair to go into what I was thinking at the time. BTW- glad to see some interest after all.

First, the Grey connection: Now, while I know that it may not seem like a good thing, and that people may be opposed to it, I will point out that first, these things aren’t undead. They gain some power from the Grey that toughens them up and makes them better soldiers. The way I think of it is that they all consider themselves dead already, and that this is just a way to harness the afterlife now. The second thing to point out is that during the Green Age and the Cleansing Wars, Meotry were commonly (maybe not frequently, but the practice was normal and used by most, at least in the stuff we have thus far) used in various cities and kingdoms. I think that this practice, along with the psionically epowered orbs that were slaves shows a different side of the Green Age/Cleansing Wars. That and, they thought that the end was here anyway, and the Soldiers that were made all volunteered.

I also agree with Kal that Rajaat was distant and uninterested in the goings on of the world after he loosed his Champions. Something like this could have definitely gone on, especially if it was in a location far removed from the tablelands. Personaly, I envision the Twilight Hall being far to the north, almost at the polar cap. I see it being part of a city that was dominated by humans, and too far away for Rajaat to care about. I can also see the project being overseen by a Pyreen or two. Now before I get anything thrown at me, and hoping that this doesn’t jump in to a moral diatribe, I can see a Pyreen voluntarily severing his or her connection to the land and the elemental planes if it means that the Rebirth races have a chance of making it. This would not be something they would all do, but someone who has seen the horror, seen the twistedness that is Rajaat’s plans could decide that the only way to win is to be willing to do what is not expected. Personally I just love the idea of an undead Pyreen sitting in the Twilight Hall. This Pyreen can no longer leave the Hall, and is necessary for the functioning of the Epic Power. The Pyreen voluntarily gives up union with a Spirit of the Land in order to give the world a chance, in order to turn the Twilight into the Dawn. I don’t see this Pyreen being any more powerful than any other Pyreen, and certainly not on par with Rajaat; just someone willing to make a sacrifice.

Anyway, that is some of my rational behind it all. I thought that they should be able to fight the armies of the Warbringer, but before they were able to “build” enough soldiers, the wars ended and the Champions rebelled. At that point, the soldiers we not needed as much, as the Champions were more concerned with keeping the prison locked, and with keep Boyrs (now the Dragon) away from their cities. Maybe this is what happened to the Twilight Hall and the City that surrounds it. The Dragon came and killed everyone, except some of the Soldiers in stasis and the lonely Pyreen, who I like to call Twilight’s Hope.
#16

kalthandrix

Apr 04, 2006 19:37:31
Hey cnahumck, this is your baby. I was just the median that tried to bring your idea into form. I will not make any other changes to the dude unless we are both in agreement- which I do agree with you in how I also seen them. This other stuff could just be rolled into another project or not.
#17

cnahumck

Apr 04, 2006 20:15:59
Hey cnahumck, this is your baby. I was just the median that tried to bring your idea into form. I will not make any other changes to the dude unless we are both in agreement- which I do agree with you in how I also seen them. This other stuff could just be rolled into another project or not.

I know man, I think some of the stuff is pretty cool, and I like the idea of the moons, but I also think that there are many other "good guys" out there that need to be developed and fleshed out a bit. I really like the idea of the geosphere or whatever, and I like the idea that the Epic Power can only be used in conjunction with the lunar cycle. But I started this whole thing because I wanted more on the Green Age and the Cleansing Wars. These bad boys should be just one of MANY cool things to come. I don't want to throw out ANY ideas, just cause they don't match this consept. There are too many undocumented years (11,000 to be exact) to discount anything. and I do appriciate everyones input.
#18

Pennarin

Apr 04, 2006 23:51:37
Still am missing the lowdown on this template. Can someone resume the fundamental ideas of how it came to be, by whom, for what, what it does, and how does it stand today, all in one paragraph please? Like a product pitch if you will...
#19

kalthandrix

Apr 05, 2006 7:36:34
I will have to wait for C to post before I throw in my two cents- the Twilight Hall was my idea but I will let him explain a bit more on the whys and stuff before I explain more on what my thoughts were when I took his material and made the version we have on this thread.
#20

cnahumck

Apr 05, 2006 8:45:17
Still am missing the lowdown on this template. Can someone resume the fundamental ideas of how it came to be, by whom, for what, what it does, and how does it stand today, all in one paragraph please? Like a product pitch if you will...

The idea behind the template is this: I am curious about what could have opposed the Champions during the Cleansing Wars. I am a little tired of the debates about the Champions, and the lack of discussions on those being cleansed. This template was an idea for one type of Soldier (maybe different races and locations would have different templates) that would have been made to fight in the Cleansing Wars AGAINST the Champions. The summary/background/pitch is this:

At the end of the Cleansing Wars, far to the north a human kingdom saw that the end was near. They understood that the Rajaat would not be happy until all who oppose him were destroyed. Knowing this, the kingdom made the Twilight Hall (or modified it for this purpose) to create soldiers that would be able to fight against the Warbringer. These soldiers were tied to the Grey for power, as the practice of creating Moerty was fairly well known, and used in this kingdom to help the people stay connected to the past. These Soldiers did not see any use in the war, because before they could be used, the Champions rebelled, and the kingdom to the north faded form history, forgotten by the tablelands. The soldiers were put into stasis, and some survive to this day. Upon awakening they seek out others of their kind, and to understand the world today. They dislike the SK’s and will work against them, but their arcane distortion ability makes it unlikely that they will work with the VA.

I hope that this clears some of that up. Really, in a nut shell, these are weapons to be used against the Champions that were never used. I want to see more stuff from this time period, as I am sure that the cleansed races must have had some type of resistance. This is one of many possible answers, and certainly not the only one.

As far as how it stands today, it is just as the template reads. Kal and I hammered this out, with Nyt's help. The Grey thing was a point of contention at first but it fits for this template. I do really like the idea of something tied to the moons, and that could be something that another group used to fight against Rajaat. But that is really the whole point of this: What was going on during the Cleansing Wars and how did the races fight against their destruction? Maybe the Nightmare Beasts were weapons of war, but used by Orcs or Ogres, and not Rajaat's Champions. Things like this. I just want to help to flesh out some of the history of the 11,000 years the have been suppressed and forgotten. Possibly turn it into a supplement. This is, as I have said, just one idea among many.
#21

xanthus

Apr 05, 2006 15:51:31
As far as how it stands today, it is just as the template reads. Kal and I hammered this out, with Nyt's help. The Grey thing was a point of contention at first but it fits for this template. I do really like the idea of something tied to the moons, and that could be something that another group used to fight against Rajaat. But that is really the whole point of this: What was going on during the Cleansing Wars and how did the races fight against their destruction? Maybe the Nightmare Beasts were weapons of war, but used by Orcs or Ogres, and not Rajaat's Champions. Things like this. I just want to help to flesh out some of the history of the 11,000 years the have been suppressed and forgotten. Possibly turn it into a supplement. This is, as I have said, just one idea among many.

I'll try to come up with something maybe involving the moons then for other responses to the awfulness of the Cleansing Wars. I'll write something up and send you and Kal a PM so I can send you guys a copy of what I come up with, sound good?

As far as the other 11k+ years, I like the thread that Brian's got going and I think that's the best place to start placing ideas in. I started a thread about it buy Xlorep pointed me in the direction of Brian's map thread.

-X
#22

kalthandrix

Apr 05, 2006 16:00:25
Hey X- you got my e-mail address and I will work with you as much as you want on this - just float me your ideas and I will do my magic.
#23

Pennarin

Apr 05, 2006 20:15:04
Can I take a moment out of people's time to take a poll?

Poll: Have you ever considered, before this template came out, to add to your campaign a kind of "anti-Champion", created by forces opposed to the ravages of the Cleansing Wars?

My answer: I did. Years ago. Nothing came out of it.
#24

kalthandrix

Apr 05, 2006 20:56:05
It does not defy logic that those fighting the Champions would try to find a way to make a warrior or something that would be powerful enough to fight against them- though I would like to point out that these fellows would not have been powerful enough IMO.

I would like to put the Twilight Hall in D2 of Brian's maps - there is a ruin located to the east/north-east of Lake Blackmire on the edge of the Sink that I think would be perfect- secluded, out of the Tablelands, and very heard to get to.

Now I have not done anything with the design of the epic power or the Hall its self, but I will use the Pyreen that cnahumck had in mind and pair it with the geode kind of idea that xanthus came up with, but not to harness the power of the light.

As for numbers, I would feel comfortable with something between 500 to 800 total, all lined up like terracotta warriors- this also reminds me of a David Gemmel book called "Hero in the Shadows".
#25

cnahumck

Apr 05, 2006 22:06:14
Can I take a moment out of people's time to take a poll?

Poll: Have you ever considered, before this template came out, to add to your campaign a kind of "anti-Champion", created by forces opposed to the ravages of the Cleansing Wars?

My answer: I did. Years ago. Nothing came out of it.

First off, these aint anti-champions. They are super soldiers. The good guys didn't need anti-champions, they had them. They were the pyreen. Now, I am sure that some did not actively fight, but I can see some fighting with every race out there. This is one pyreen's version of a new soldier to help at the end of the war. I see it being done in a secluded, mostly human city. Other pyreens and other races may have done it differently. No one could make a champion to rival Rajaat's. They had his personal training, they had the power of the Dark Lens and the Prestine Tower. Others did not have that.

However, remeber that war ALWAYS brings innovation. The atomic bomb was developed in a very short period of time (I believe less than a decade) and this was without magic (arcane or divine) and without psionics. Just science. Now, we are talking about centuries to whipe out the races. I don't have it handy, but even the "easy" races took at least 300 years. We are talking about HUNDREDS of generations that did nothing but fight against the armies that were trying to kill them. Someone would have done something. Sacrifices would have been made. To me, this period of Athas's history is the most interesting, because of how it would affect those who lived during it. Even Boyrs in the last of the PP novels tells the heroes of Tyr that they would not want a return of the wars, they were too horrific. And he helped the side that perpetrated the horror. I am not saying that their should be uber good guys, hidding off somewhere ready to retake the tablelands. things are too far gone. What I am saying is that something could have surived, and that maybe their are other memebers of "cleansed" races that exist in distant parts of the world in stasis (it work for the lizard men). It would be cool if we had some of their tech, some of their weapons, and some of their wisdom. Because the future is dark, and I like the irony involved in the fact that maybe with the Kreen Invasion, and the Dead Lands and Dregoth, that maybe the things from the past that were to be swept away as a mistake are the very things need to keep the planet from dying completely. course, that is just my take.

It does not defy logic that those fighting the Champions would try to find a way to make a warrior or something that would be powerful enough to fight against them- though I would like to point out that these fellows would not have been powerful enough IMO.

I would like to put the Twilight Hall in D2 of Brian's maps - there is a ruin located to the east/north-east of Lake Blackmire on the edge of the Sink that I think would be perfect- secluded, out of the Tablelands, and very heard to get to.

Now I have not done anything with the design of the epic power or the Hall its self, but I will use the Pyreen that cnahumck had in mind and pair it with the geode kind of idea that xanthus came up with, but not to harness the power of the light.

As for numbers, I would feel comfortable with something between 500 to 800 total, all lined up like terracotta warriors- this also reminds me of a David Gemmel book called "Hero in the Shadows".

I was thinking the same kind of numbers, but with a few that are out and running around. I have one in my campaign, and I really like the way he is working. I like the location, it was either that one or the actual polar cap that I had in mind. And thank you thank you thank you for being open to the Pyreen idea. To me, it is just to tragic not to use; a creature that gave up everything for a hope, and then that hope was no longer necessary. In a place without gods, that kind of sacrifice seems bigger to me.
#26

cnahumck

Apr 05, 2006 22:14:21
I'll try to come up with something maybe involving the moons then for other responses to the awfulness of the Cleansing Wars. I'll write something up and send you and Kal a PM so I can send you guys a copy of what I come up with, sound good?

As far as the other 11k+ years, I like the thread that Brian's got going and I think that's the best place to start placing ideas in. I started a thread about it buy Xlorep pointed me in the direction of Brian's map thread.

-X

I never got you PM, but i am very interested in your ideas. Athas.org has a lot on their plate, and i think we could get something started here for the green age and the cleansing wars. There was another thread a while back that talked about the cleansed races and how people veiwed them, i'll have to find it and gleen it for good ideas. anything that you think could be usable is great to me. i know others have done some cool things with different races too, like tari and pterrans, so gathering that stuff into a supplement could be helpful too (with their permission of course, wouldn't want to steal anything.) i just think that this is something that could be helpful, that is all. If people don't want to use it then fine. but I am sure that everyone has at least THOUGHT about a cleansing war campaign, or time travel trip for their PC's. it woudl be cool, and I just want to give the loosing side a good chance at looking like they were capable, just not capable enough.
#27

kalthandrix

Apr 05, 2006 23:23:16
It is quite possible that my players will go back to the Green Age- which was the reason I made the 2 time travel spells- I am just waiting on Brian to finish a picture for me and then I will repost a new and updated version of the Door into the Past epic spell.

I will have to e-mail him to see if he has been able to finish it.
#28

cnahumck

Apr 07, 2006 14:16:40
Still am missing the lowdown on this template. Can someone resume the fundamental ideas of how it came to be, by whom, for what, what it does, and how does it stand today, all in one paragraph please? Like a product pitch if you will...

Maybe you are still mulling it over, but have the above statements answered your questions, and if so, what do you think? If not, maybe I need to better state my ideas. I just notice that you haven't yet responded.
#29

kalthandrix

Apr 07, 2006 16:10:40
Maybe you are still mulling it over, but have the above statements answered your questions, and if so, what do you think? If not, maybe I need to better state my ideas. I just notice that you haven't yet responded.

Pennarin has some family issues he is attending to right now.
#30

cnahumck

Apr 07, 2006 18:19:38
Sorry Penn, didn't know. Hope everything turns out well.