Treasure hunting in the Land of Eternal Truth

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

zombiegleemax

Apr 02, 2006 3:03:27
Is there any reference to "Zephyr" and "The Gnoll" in Gaz2? They should be 2 Immortals, I was trying to understand if they are pre-Eternal Truth long forgotten Immortals or if they are 2 of the Immortal Guardians of the Eternal Truth.
The warming bless of the Nameh will shine upon the resolver of this question!
#2

jakob_pawlowicz

Apr 02, 2006 11:03:56
I can't find any references to the two immortals in Gaz 2. The Gazetteer does mention "The Immortal Guardians", but fail to mention any of their names, well except for Al-Kalim.
The only other immortal mentioned in the text by name is Thanatos.

-my 2 cent

Jakob
#3

Cthulhudrew

Apr 02, 2006 17:53:47
Page 61, under the entry (The Bead of Oblivion" (paragraph 2):

"The device was created at great expense of power by The Old Man of the Sea, The Gnoll, and Zephyr, dedicated Immortals who wished to reestablish the balance disturbed by the direct interference of Thanatos (and his secret ally Corona) in the affairs of the Nithian Empire."

It doesn't mention whether they are pre- or post- Eternal Truth Immortals, but given that the bit about religion among the Eternal Truth only mentions reverencing the Immortal Guardians, I don't know that there really is any particular specification (ie, any Immortals should technically be considered Immortal Guardians).
#4

zombiegleemax

Apr 03, 2006 0:40:34
Al-Kalim smiles on you!
But... who Zephyr and The Gnoll are? Are them known with more common names in the Known World?
Maybe, The Gnoll could be Ranivorus, but I feel strange he combacts vs Thanatos... could he be better known as Pflarr?
And what about Zephyr? Is there any wind lord in the Immortals ranks?
#5

agathokles

Apr 03, 2006 2:17:07
Al-Kalim smiles on you!
But... who Zephyr and The Gnoll are? Are them known with more common names in the Known World?
Maybe, The Gnoll could be Ranivorus, but I feel strange he combacts vs Thanatos... could he be better known as Pflarr?
And what about Zephyr? Is there any wind lord in the Immortals ranks?

I'd say they're modern Ylari names for Odin and Pflarr.

The Gnoll of course can't be Ranivorous, since he was one of Thanatos' pawns.
It's possible, OTOH, that since Hutaakans disappeared from Alasiya before the fall of Nithia, that later Alasiyans (and maybe even the last Nithians) confused them (and their patron Immortal) with the gnolls.

Zephyr could be any number of Immortals of Thought, Odin is old enough and has direct interest in a nation right near Ylaruam. Sinbad could be another choice, but he may be too young.
#6

jakob_pawlowicz

Apr 03, 2006 16:07:46
Page 61, under the entry (The Bead of Oblivion" (paragraph 2):

(Doh......)The master hast spoken and I have learned.

But I don't agree in that it is Odin that equals Zephyr. I would argue that Zephyr is another identity of Asterius. Due to Asterius' enmity towards Thanatos, makes him him a more likely candidate than Odin.
Ranivorus could not be The Gnoll, since he was the one conspired with Thanatos to bring down The Nithians, so it would be illogical for him to be on the board that prevents anybody from going down the same road as The Nithians. Rather he is mentioned in the same text as Corona .....
of Thanatos (and his secret ally Corona)

But why he is named Corona, I don't know.
#7

Cthulhudrew

Apr 03, 2006 16:09:14
Hmm... Looks like another question for the FAQ!
#8

Cthulhudrew

Apr 03, 2006 16:24:41
Ranivorus could not be The Gnoll, since he was the one conspired with Thanatos to bring down The Nithians, so it would be illogical for him to be on the board that prevents anybody from going down the same road as The Nithians. Rather he is mentioned in the same text as Corona .....

But why he is named Corona, I don't know.

Another theory- it isn't established until much later that Ranivorus was Thanatos' ally (long after Gaz2 came out- first mention of Ranivorus is in Gaz7, in the Northern Reaches entry). He really comes into prominence in the Nithia Gaz, where Ranivorus and Thanatos are both openly allied and known to have been involved in Nithia's downfall.

Gaz2 mentions that Coronia is Thanatos' secret ally, though- perhaps it isn't referring to Ranivorus at all, but rather some other, as yet unidentified Immortal ally? Someone whose involvement isn't even known to the other Immortals yet?

The bit about Corona/Zephyr, et al is in the DM's information section, so it is essentially "metagame" info, and not necessarily known to personages in the game world itself.

As for guesses on Corona's actual identity, I don't really have any conjectures. Someone most likely associated with Fire and/or Energy, and who would have a reason to want Nithia destroyed/corrupted, and who has a reason to keep his/her/its identity secret from other Immortals by adopting the name "Corona." Anything other than that, I don't have any suggestions for.
#9

agathokles

Apr 04, 2006 6:01:30
As for guesses on Corona's actual identity, I don't really have any conjectures. Someone most likely associated with Fire and/or Energy, and who would have a reason to want Nithia destroyed/corrupted, and who has a reason to keep his/her/its identity secret from other Immortals by adopting the name "Corona." Anything other than that, I don't have any suggestions for.

Zugzul? He's associated with Fire and may have a reason to keep his identity secret (most think he disappeared in the GRoF).
He was also quite destructive during the Blackmoorian age.
#10

zombiegleemax

Apr 04, 2006 9:15:03
MY Short answer:

Zephyr is Odin's nick for the old Ylari religion
the Gnoll is (surprisingly enough) Pflarr's nick for the old Ylari religion.

Why?

Because after Nithia's downfall, some of the old Nithian immortals swore to prevent any information regarding Nithia from ever being discovered.
This meant that the survivors after the purge (the Alasyian slaves) were given false memories about their past AND they then devised new names for their own deities.
So even if Pflarr was a major Nithian deity, after 500 BC he turned his back on the Alasyian Basin save for guarding the Nithian secrets still buried there. He became an Immortal Guardian, and most likely a VICIOUS one since he felt betrayed by the Nithians. This means that his image was later associated with ferocious wardens and deadly traps, and since he's so similar to the known gnolls, it is very likely that he was called The Gnoll by the Ylari who did not remember his real name. Which, obviously, enraged Pflarr even more ;)

As for Zephyr, my choice goes to Odin because he is a major power and he's linked to air as the name zephyr (which is a wind) implies. Odin was also present in the Nithian pantheon IMHO, and is a likely candidate.
The idea that Zephyr could be Asterius however is a valid one too, but I disregarded it since I do not think he did belonged to the Nithian pantheon. But it's a good choice nonetheless, I concur...mmmhh,, maybe I could give it more credit and make some efforts to include Asterius in the Nithian pantheon... ;)
#11

zombiegleemax

Apr 04, 2006 10:17:14
Who was in the Nithian pantheon?
I don't see Odin in the HW Nithian pantheon... but I don't know... is the HW pantheon unlike the old Nithian one?
I belive HW pantheon is like the old Nithian one before Thanatos corroupted it (or, the main HW aim, to save a picture of a culture like a photo, would fall).
So... I'm confused...

I'm truly interested becouse one of my players is a Serraininan priest, and being born in the sky, by the sky and for the sky... he choosed Zephyr as his primary deity...

Who zephyr is?????
#12

zombiegleemax

Apr 05, 2006 3:08:36
Fact is, Arcanda, that we associate Zephyr with the sky because of the name's implication in the real world. If this applies in Mystara too, then the obvious choice is Odin or Simurgh (even if Simurgh is a Time Immortal), while Asterius is completely off mark (no connection with air or sky other than being a member of Thought).

If otherwise Zephyr has nothing to do with the sky (and we know nothing about him from canon sources), then Asterius might be a valid choice too.

The choice is simply yours.

[EDITED]

After much thinking over it, I'm finally convinced that Asterius is a very valid choice for Zephyr, so I'm actually altering some bits in my version of the Nithian Cult to fit him into this position, replacing Simurgh.
#13

thorf

Apr 05, 2006 6:34:14
I hope the English speakers of this forum will excuse me for this, but I'm gonna post my version of the Nithian Cult IN ITALIAN (caveat) especially for Arcanda (who is Italian), in order for him to read the reasoning behind my words. it's based on all the ancient Egyptian creation myths (there were many and divergent ones) integrated with Mystara's history.

I Promise I'll translate the whole thing for you, dear English speakers, when I've got enough freetime (it's a bit long) ;)

I'll hold you to that promise, Marco. :D Nithia is one of my favourite areas, so I'm itching to read what you've written about it.