Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kalthandrix Apr 03, 2006 11:18:46	I have been playing with this skill for a while and have some up with one idea on my own and another with one of my players input. I like this skill alot, but its usefulness and such is so limited that I have houseruled some changes and updates to the skill that I though some of you may like. Here is it, with the original text to show the whole picture. Knowledge (Warcraft) (Int) You are knowledgeable in organized warfare. Some of the areas of warfare this skill covers are: Supervising construction of defenses, supervising construct on siege weaponry, logistics, commanding siege weapon operations, commanding war beetle operations, teaching in the use of weapons and communication through signals and messengers (including the relevant terminology).
#2 elonarc Apr 03, 2006 12:48:16	Great work, Kal! I also had something along these lines in mind, but never got around to put it down. Thanks! I will speak to Jon if we can use this for the next version of the Core Rules (I am in the Skills Bureau, after all).
#3 kalthandrix Apr 03, 2006 13:01:06	Cool - I think that there are several skills in the books that could use a bit of an overhaul - so maybe I will have to put that on my to-do list. Oh and since you are in the Skilz Bureau :D , you fellers should add a section for a synergy bonus on Bluff for casting spells, something like "5 ranks in Slight of Hand grants a +2 bonus to bluff checks made to cast spells with somatic components"- I have always thought that one was a no brainer and have had it in my write up of material for a while- but no one in my current group has tried to do this so it never came up. I also think that my additional material on Knowleged (warcraft) could use a little blurb on if some of the bonuses can stack with one another - but they are different kinds of bonuses so I did not initally put it down - and maybe something about logistics and troop movement and such- I will work on it a bit more (seeing as I am sitting in the office with nothing to do today :D ) I will dream up some additional things too for some other skills.
#4 kalthandrix Apr 03, 2006 13:05:33	On another note- I think that someting like the additions to the knowledge skill would come in handy for the combat in Raam for Dregoth Ascending I too- orginizing a defenseive position against the Drey and stuff. Do you think adding a bonus if someone has Leadership would be over the top?
#5 elonarc Apr 03, 2006 16:51:53	Do you think adding a bonus if someone has Leadership would be over the top? Yes and no. I would grant a +2 insight bonus to Knowledge (Warcraft) only for commanding followers one gets by virtue of the Leadership feat. This would represent the familiarity a leader has with his troops.
#6 Pennarin Apr 04, 2006 2:56:53	This looks mighty fine, will look it up later. Kal the busy bee. Keep stinging man, sting away!
#7 kalthandrix Apr 04, 2006 7:08:34	This looks mighty fine, will look it up later. Kal the busy bee. Keep stinging man, sting away! Thanks Pennarin- Hey man, I hope everything is going to be okay with you and your family - I was wondering whee you had gone off to, and really hope it is nothing too serious. We will still be here when you get everything taken care of.
#8 brun01 Apr 04, 2006 14:31:16	Kalthandrix, you filthy synergy stealer!!! I will have revenge! Oh yes, I will!
#9 kalthandrix Apr 04, 2006 14:51:19	Kalthandrix, you filthy synergy stealer!!! I will have revenge! Oh yes, I will! Oh come on brun01- I will let you play with my synergy if you want
#10 brun01 Apr 04, 2006 15:01:26	Well, blatant thievery aside, well done, Kal! I always wanted more from the skill and now I have. :D I hope the guys from the skills bureau take this in consideration...
#11 kalthandrix Apr 04, 2006 19:52:18	Well, blatant thievery aside, well done, Kal! I always wanted more from the skill and now I have. :D I hope the guys from the skills bureau take this in consideration... Blatant thievery? I guess I have no idea what you are talking about! I wrote this stuff up at work the other day.
#12 Pennarin Apr 04, 2006 23:48:59	My analysis: Currently Deploy Troops, as worded, only works if the enemy has a commander, and one which makes use of the Deploy Troops option too. Careful review of the wording should point to language alterations that will solve this. Also, consider mentionning that if the enemy has no commander then the character making use of Deploy Troops is automatically successful, and that, when enemy commander is present, he can oppose the character's Deploy Troops check with either a Deploy Troops check of his own (if he has the Knowlege (warcraft) skill) or an Intelligence check. What about the mentionned "war beetle operations"? War beetles, like undead watroaches (oops: driks, mekillots, and korinths are engines of war too yet ain't beetles...), can be used as mobile platforms for siege engines, troop transports, mobile platforms for smaller ranged attackers like bowmen, or as direct weapons, i.e. the beast attacks with its natural weapons. As you can see all applications of the "war beetle operations" are not limited to siege engines and as such should be covered in more detail in the skill. (I also suggest adding synergy bonuses for these "war beetle operations" if the character has a related skill like Handle Animal or Profession (cornac)*, or is a druid or ranger**.) I like this skill and would want to see it in DS3. * That's french for elephant handler, applicable on Athas to handlers of inixes, mekillots, driks, and korinths. ** See the Special section of the Handle Animal skill to see how it interacts with those two classes.
#13 brun01 Apr 05, 2006 7:26:38	Blatant thievery? I guess I have no idea what you are talking about! I wrote this stuff up at work the other day. I was kidding, I brought on the boards several months ago the fact that warcraft had no synergy and suggested several possibilities... Nothing but love for you, bro. ;)
#14 kalthandrix Apr 05, 2006 7:29:47	I am glad this has stirred the pot... Thanks for the comments Penn- I had been thinking about the "war-roaches" :D . As for a Handle Animal syergy- I don't know. The commander is not the one handling the creature. With all of the other bonus, the commander is overseeing the movement of the troops and putting them in prime locations, I just do not see how his knowledge would aid in he actual control of the creatures- sure he could deploy them and the drivers as he does troops, but an actual bonus to control the creatures...I do not know about that one.
#15 kalthandrix Apr 05, 2006 7:33:53	I was kidding, I brought on the boards several months ago the fact that warcraft had no synergy and suggested several possibilities... Nothing but love for you, bro. ;) I was just checking. :D Anyway... I remember you wanted some Diplomacy bonus and stuff- I think what I have actually covers the skill a bit better in how it would be applied. Of course I am biased in this opinion so :P The material above not only has the synery, but also adds to the actual application of the skill, which was sorely lacking in actual useable applications.
#16 jon_oracle_of_athas Apr 13, 2006 14:12:56	Originally Warcraft gave you a trait for each rank you possessed in it. A lot of those traits were broken for a skill, thus I had Warcraft broken into a skill and feat combo system. I agree that the skill is too loosely defined as it is. Some DC tables and rules extrapolations such as these will be considered for DS3 R7.
#17 kalthandrix Apr 13, 2006 14:27:53	Ahha- so here IS a R7: the master has given away the secret. Now we do not need him! Anyway...Jon, I would be thrilled to hand hand over and help out with the expansion of this skill if you or any of the Skill Templars want the input!
#18 jon_oracle_of_athas Apr 13, 2006 14:54:55	It´ll be welcome.