You can use dragons in Ravenloft, but they are very powerful and generally outclass most Dark lords. (In fact, the only real consistent reference I could find throughout 2nd ed. and 3rd ed. to a dragon is Ebb, the shadow dragon who once served Azalin.) If you do use a dragon, try to gear the adventure so that finding it and thwacking it isn't the sole purpose. One adventure idea that was bandied about was adapting the PC computer game "Clive Barker's Undying" which deals with five quarrelling siblings and their undead selves... and then using a dragon as the end boss - which the PCs only hope to drive off, not to actually kill.
Some domains are alien enough so you could theoretically put dragons in them - Bluetspur and the Nightmare Lands come to mind. But you should still be careful so it doesn't become a bash-fest.
After all, dragons are intelligent and they could even start up a network of humans as a secret society. Used sparingly, you could have fun with PCs trying to penetrate a merchant's guild harmlessly-called "The Crooked Scales" and then finding out that the patron is a powerful dragon in human form!
Even if you don't use actual dragons. A dragon-THEME can really work. Of course, whenever anyone mentions dragons, people here always assume true dragons (metallic, gem, and chromatic, for example), but there are plenty wyverns and kobolds to make the dragon theme, not to mention there is also pseudo-dragon living with the druids of Forlorn.
However, there's not a really good reason why there couldn't be a shapechanged dragon posing as a human and running a thieves' guild - assassin's guild - mafia - cult - trading coster. Perhaps this same shapechanged dragon cannot resume his form, and his criminal activities involve the theft/acquisition of tomes of magical lore wherein he hopes to find the trick to getting his scaly old body back. Essentially, he takes the dragon disciple PrC (which I never allow in RL otherwise) and regains some of his lost abilities, eventually becoming ridiculously powerful - but still not a full-fledged dragon. I kinda like that one.
From what I remeber from the Realm of Terror boxed set, they say that dragons exist, but are really rare. That's all I can help you with.
In the Black Box, there was even more then a hint of the tarrasque
This still leaves open the possibility that dragon-like creatures might be native to the Ravenloft setting, while leaving true dragons (much too powerful) out of the picture. I can certainly imagine wyverns existing in at least a couple of domains, without them toppling the balance of power (mostly because they're stupid), and you could have constructs within the setting that are modeled upon the "legendary" dragons of folklore (the best way to account for those statues that turn into dragons in I6, IMHO). Even a [RARE!] half-dragon might be plausible, if you depict it as some kind of arcane- or science-spawned broken one instead of a dragon-sired hybrid.
But dragons as a permanent, breeding population doesn't work in the setting as it's generally portrayed. Heck, that's why a certain "Dread Possibility" about Ebb is a scary one, if that situation might potentially change in the near future....
Dark lord of the path of Apathy. Seriously hard to get exited about? Hardly, hid dice less sleep abilty hurts.
(Given that there are potentially an infinite number of clusters or islands elsewhere from the Core, this mechanic would probably serve a dragon better than sitting in a humanoid area waiting for eventual conflict.)
Other ideas for dragons:
The Undying style game I mentioned above. One island has humans trying to examine or harness the occult power, not realizing their actions are in direct service to a sleeping dragon. (Possibly freeing it from the earth.)
The Asian Ravenloft style game. A single dragon in an Asian setting would be venerated as a minor demigod at least. Perhaps the Dark Powers would make the dragon dependent on the humans for its power, but also pit the humans' expansion at odds with the dragon's wellbeing. No wonder the "Dragon Rivers" of the Yellow River and Yangzi River continually overflowed in China - the dragons probably were trying to control these upstart puny humans...
The hidden cult. A dragon knows it has little chance to survive a long term conflict with an established human civilization, so it builds its power base in an arcane following.
Atlantis. Dragons could live underwater - maybe they are lords of vast undersea empires in the Sea of Sorrows or off Darkon's eastern shore. As humans develop more machinery and sophisticated ways of trawling the depths for treasure and food, the dragons feel the pinch of their expansion.
Vecna's pet. This is an obvious dichotomy - the Dark Powers are less than gods but more than mortals. Yet they imprisoned a demigod, Vecna, who was still able to talk to his quasi-godly magical source, the Serpent. If you accept the presence of Vecna as canonical, then Ravenloft is just as epic-suitable as any other campaign, and dragons could inhabit a specially-designed cluster or domain.
I suppose another way of dealing with dragons, especially the intelligent ones, is to place them far from the Core. It stands to reason that Ravenloft is more technological and less magical than most settings. The availability of gunpowder weapons means even low-level militia can cause a lot of damage to conventional foes as long as they're well-equipped. A dragon that grows up in the Core may well decide, after a few clashes with a domain lord's elite forces, to enter the mists and search for a cluster or island of its own.
(Given that there are potentially an infinite number of clusters or islands elsewhere from the Core, this mechanic would probably serve a dragon better than sitting in a humanoid area waiting for eventual conflict.)
Other ideas for dragons:
The Undying style game I mentioned above. One island has humans trying to examine or harness the occult power, not realizing their actions are in direct service to a sleeping dragon. (Possibly freeing it from the earth.)
The Asian Ravenloft style game. A single dragon in an Asian setting would be venerated as a minor demigod at least. Perhaps the Dark Powers would make the dragon dependent on the humans for its power, but also pit the humans' expansion at odds with the dragon's wellbeing. No wonder the "Dragon Rivers" of the Yellow River and Yangzi River continually overflowed in China - the dragons probably were trying to control these upstart puny humans...
The hidden cult. A dragon knows it has little chance to survive a long term conflict with an established human civilization, so it builds its power base in an arcane following.
Atlantis. Dragons could live underwater - maybe they are lords of vast undersea empires in the Sea of Sorrows or off Darkon's eastern shore. As humans develop more machinery and sophisticated ways of trawling the depths for treasure and food, the dragons feel the pinch of their expansion.
Vecna's pet. This is an obvious dichotomy - the Dark Powers are less than gods but more than mortals. Yet they imprisoned a demigod, Vecna, who was still able to talk to his quasi-godly magical source, the Serpent. If you accept the presence of Vecna as canonical, then Ravenloft is just as epic-suitable as any other campaign, and dragons could inhabit a specially-designed cluster or domain.
Those are some good ideas. I really the one about the occult.
Note that the dragon-statues were replaced by gargoyle golems in the 2E "House of Strahd", as the incongruity of dragons in Ravenloft had become clear by then. Indeed, IIRC the original review of I6 in Dragon Magazine, itself, remarked upon how out-of-place the red dragons were in what, at the time, was really just a D&D version of Dracula's castle ... this, years before Ravenloft became a game-setting! Even then, fantasy-style dragons and Gothic horror just didn't seem to complement each other.
There, the idea of a dragon is more of an archtype of nature - something that sends rains, floods, good harvests, earthquakes - that sort of thing.
The thread is at http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3331
There is no single post about Dragons, but do a "Find" operation for Yujing, Que, Wen, Liang, or Fuknaam, and you'll see how I tried to incorporate the idea of a dragon veneration system.
It seems like I recall reading in "Knight of the Black Rose" that Soth destroyed a Red Dragon that Strahd had in his castle. Strahd then mentioned something about the dragon being valuable and rare, but not irreplaceable. I could be totally wrong about this though.
No, you're correct. However, one musn't forget that this being a novel, the author could take some liberties with the setting. The fact that Strahd doesn't say anything about how to secure such a "replacement" is annoying to say the least.
It seemed to be quite small (probably size M or L at most), I recall Soth wrestled it in the end. Did it ever use a breath weapon?
Frankly, from the description of the encounter, it really looks and sounds like a true dragon. If this was an advanced construct, then I know mages out there who would bleed themselves dry for a chance to study it.
personally, I think that a couple of dragons here and there in Ravenloft is great. What could be scarier than a giant lizard that knows magic and is probably going to be quite upset when one runs into them? As to how Strahd would get another one, I would wager that the Vistani, were they prodded or bribed well enough, could find a wyrmling or 2 throughout their travels in the mists. I would also surmise that for the right price, they could find the right magic and/or tools to subjugate it and bring it to a Darklord.
One way or another, dragons should be scarce in Ravenloft. That should go without saying.
Anyways there's another Dragon loose in semi canon as I posted in this old thread on dragons extant in RL:
There's a (very?) young gold dragon loose in Darkon probably.
In Gaz II, p50, stats for Martira Bay there is one Harbor Watchmaster Hoelgar Arnutsson Brd8. I just found in my 1992 Trading card set a Hoelgar Arnutsson, a 10th level Fighter(Berserker). So I suppose Brd is a typo and should mean Brb, which makes more sense for a Watchmaster.
I would probably make him a Ftr/Brb or Ftr/Frenzied Berserker though. I have no idea why his level is lower than on the card, but he could have been drained.
His extrapolated stats from the 2E trading card are: AL CE; Str 15 Dex 14- Con 15-18.
Possessions: bronze plate, helm, greatsword +3, dragonslayer (probably gold)
Background: Hoelgar and his warriors slew an entire brood of gold dragons, save one fugitive. Its mother, as she died, cursed Hoelgar to utter destruction when "the golden eyed youth wields the silver blade". Hoelgar followed the youth, intending to slay it before the curse could be fulfilled and became trapped in Ravenloft.
..so there's a young gold dragon loose in Ravenloft semi-canon somewhere!
I'd give the Dragon one level of Avenger and make him young or very young.
The original I6 module had a room where four dragon statues acted as magical guardians, by transforming into small red dragons and attacking intruders. (Note that these were 1E red dragons without speech or spells, meaning they were basically just fire-breathing lizards and probably wouldn't last two rounds against a 3E true dragon of any size or color.) The author of KotBR almost certainly read the module and liked the idea of siccing one of these guardians on Soth, even if we didn't actually see it transform from a statue.
Note that the dragon-statues were replaced by gargoyle golems in the 2E "House of Strahd", as the incongruity of dragons in Ravenloft had become clear by then. Indeed, IIRC the original review of I6 in Dragon Magazine, itself, remarked upon how out-of-place the red dragons were in what, at the time, was really just a D&D version of Dracula's castle ... this, years before Ravenloft became a game-setting! Even then, fantasy-style dragons and Gothic horror just didn't seem to complement each other.
I just saw this for the first time. Excellent analysis! I knew they were constructs or something like it. Perhaps you could make them dragonshaped gargoyle golems if you wanted to. I'd probably keep them as gargoyles though.