It has been a while since I followed Greyhawk, has Rary been eliminated or is he still in the desert with Lord Robilar?
Thanks for the help.
I am running a world spanning adventure to recover the Rod of Seven Parts. Should I have the portion of the rod located in Oerth be in the Bright Desert or in the lands of Iuz?
Wherever it's best for your campaign. Both locations have unique challenges and intriguing NPC, albeit the second is clearly deadlier (depending on where you place the rod exactly).
It has been a while since I followed Greyhawk, has Rary been eliminated or is he still in the desert with Lord Robilar?
Canon-GH: yes, still there with R (although it seems that this Lord Robilar is but a clone of the original) since it's still 591 CY
LG-GH: yes too but things are getting more complicated (see the Blight on Bright Sands series)
Personally I think that "evil twin Skippy" angle to explain Robilar's motivations is pretty lame.
P.
Eh - where in actual canon does it say that Robilar is a clone? I know Rob Kuntz wanted it to be so, but did he actually put that in an adventure somewhere?
Personally I think that "evil twin Skippy" angle to explain Robilar's motivations is pretty lame.
It doesn't. I was quoting RK (which is why I used "seem" and put the comment between brackets). That part isn't canon but given Rob is the "owner" of the character, his opinion counts (lame or not).
Mr Kuntz hasn't been in control of the canon version of Robilar for a long time, so allowing him to veto canon with message board opinions seems unneccessarily generous.
I think it's better perhaps to leave the question of Robilar's motivations open and undetermined, rather than constrain things with a convenient (and lame!) rationale.
Also, if we're talking published canon, message board posts even from a Great Old One like Rob Kuntz doesn't trump what's actually been published, even if the rationale for Rary and Robilar going bad presented in Rary the Traitor is clearly a hooey cover story.
For example, if Tenser and Otiluke were "collateral damage" in the apparently botched attempt to blow up the crowned heads at the Great Signing, how was it that R & R's minions were so conveniently poised to take out their clones? They weren't collateral damage - they were the intended targets. Everything else is smoke and mirrors to cover up that fact.
Rob Kuntz's main objection to the events of Rary the Traitor and his rationale for the Evil Twin Skippy idea is that Robilar would never turn on Mordenkainen. Well, if Mordenkainen had a reason to want Tenser and Otiluke dead (if for example, they were going to reveal Mordy's culpability in causing the Greyhawk Wars to the gathered crowned heads), then by killing them, Robilar wasn't working against him, but was Mordenkainen's faithful catspaw, as he always has been. Such was his loyalty to Mordenkainen that he was willing to sacrifice his lands, title and reputation and retreat to the Bright as an outcast. That takes a lot of character and cojones.
Now, of course this is just message board opinion too - and so carries no more weight in canon than the Evil Twin Skippy theory, but still, I think it opens more interesting possibilities and subtelties of character than a rampaging evil clone.
All IMO, of course.
P.
Although his career started as a neutral and he still retains an attitude somewhat neutral in outlook, Robilar is presently lawful evil in alignment... In spite of his alignment, he can still be trusted to an extent, though caution should be exercised. It is said that the great Robilar, jaded with the everyday pleasures of life, changed his alignment to satisfy his morbid tastes.
Maybe I'm missing something, and maybe some of this isn't considered canon anymore, but it seems that almost from the beginning, Robilar didn't seem to have a problem with evil whenever it suited him. Personally, I've suspected that Robilar's intent on that fateful day in 570 CY was to free Iuz and gain control over him for his own purposes (but it obviously didn't work).
I'd place one of the pieces of the Rod of Seven Parts in the Bright Desert myself, to possibly dovetail with Rary's search for the Scorpion Crown (assuming he hasn't yet found it in your campaign, Petrankov). There's always adventure in Iuz, but how often does one get to tool around in the Bright Desert?
Wasn't Robiliar the reason Iuz was able to escape from the dungeons below Castle Greyhawk in the first place (Iuz the Evil, p. 5, 1993)? He "secretly carried a pair of highly unusual dispelling magics about himself on that fateful day," and it is unknown whether it "was by error or perhaps design."
If you read LGJ0, you find out who gave him the sword that bore those magics (the Blade of Black Ice, I think - also mentioned in Rary the Traitor IIRC)...
[Here's a hint: his name starts with "M" and ends in "ordenkainen".] ;)
LGJ0 also hints that the sword was given not only with full knowledge of the result, but to bring that result about. If you read more into the article, you'll find the why.
[Another hint: it starts with "T" and ends in the destruction of the Multiverse.] :D
P.
Sounds interesting. Never thought of Mordenkainen as the nasty mage this thread makes him out to be. He sounds much more interesting now.
I was thinking Bright Desert too but I figured if I am going to do some Greyhawk who is more iconic than Iuz? I would not have them cross his path but the chance that he might cross their path should scare the heck out of them.
I was thinking about placing the Rod with the Crown. Perhaps they and Robilar find both items at once. Nice final battle on Oerth before they leave.....
If you read LGJ0, you find out who gave him the sword that bore those magics (the Blade of Black Ice, I think - also mentioned in Rary the Traitor IIRC)...
[Here's a hint: his name starts with "M" and ends in "ordenkainen".]
LGJ0 also hints that the sword was given not only with full knowledge of the result, but to bring that result about. If you read more into the article, you'll find the why.
[Another hint: it starts with "T" and ends in the destruction of the Multiverse.]
Having never read LG0 Woe can you tell me who wrote the article detailing it? And where did they get thier information? Was this wrote to simply mesh with the canon that was established to support previous writings i.e. Rary or Rot8, Living Greyhawk? I mean was the information supplied by Rob or Gary who were there for the adventure as DM and player? Did they post about it somewhere and where is it?
You know I wrote that above and to me it sounds sarcastic, so please dont take it that way its not meant to be. Just curiousity about the article itself :D .
Maraudar
The article about the Circle of 8 was written by Gary Holian and Erik Mona.
However, unless there are missing pages in my issue, I must say that Woesinger is wrong. Nowhere in that article is something stated about the Blade of Black Ice or what Robilar did in the bowels of Castle GH apart from an enigmatic quote:
In 570, with Robilar's part in the release of Iuz revealed..
It's the Epic Level Handbook that hints that the blade - probably forged by Iuz (a hypothesis also stated in WGR3) - was given to Robilar by Mordenkainen. Although for what purpose exactly isn't spelled out that clearly.
EDIT: Woesinger was correct. I missed the part where it was (cryptically) stated. Me bad :surrender
In battle, he wields the Blade of Black Ice, a sword said to have been forged by Iuz himself. Seemingly made of ice, the blade inflicts 1d10+3 points of damage (with an additional +3 for Robilar's Strength bonus), as well as acting as a sword +3, frost brand. The bonus against fire-based creatures is therefore +6 (+9 with Strength bonus). With this sword, Robilar suffers no ill effects for wearing his armor in the desert.
That's it. If Mordenkainen gave it to Robilar, that's perfectly understandable, since he cannot use it, but Robilar can. So, in the absence of anything concrete, I still suspect that Robilar had plans for Iuz the cambion and intended to free him, but was unaware that he had somehow become a demigod. In fact, in Iuz the Evil, p. 3, we are told:
Iuz's banishment was long indeed, one reason why the defenders of good were slow to respond to his reappearance. A strange alliance freed Iuz in 570 CY, seeking to slay him. This tale is long in telling and will be recounted below. But, the creature returning to its homeland was no cambion tanar'ri now. How Iuz became a demigod is a secret any sage of Oerth would give an arm and a leg to discover. Zuggtmoy, Iggwilv, Graz'zt and Lolth are all said to have had some part, perhaps even unwittingly.
An idea just occurred to me: maybe Iuz' mother, Iggwilv (using her powers to appear as a comely wench and to influence his mind), whispered to Robilar that Iuz could easily be bent to his will and would make a powerful servant, and when he set off in search of a way to free Iuz, she appeared to him in another guise (perhaps as a powerful wizard or priest) to give him the "pair of highly unusual dispelling magics" (perhaps explaining that one would free Iuz, and lied that the other had power over him). Robilar then rounded up some old adventuring buddies (Quij, Riggby, Bigby and Neb Retnar) and made up a story, explaining that Iuz needed to be destroyed, but "Tenser had learned of Robilar's plan, feared that Riggby was being duped, and came post haste to prevent their action" (Iuz the Evil, p. 5). Meanwhile, Iggwilv sat back, content with the knowledge that her son would soon be freed...
However, unless there are missing pages in my issue, I must say that Woesinger is wrong.
Woesinger is correct. The information is in the excerpt from the Codex of Mordenkainen on page 5.
I had thought, in my own optimistic way, that I could change the nature of Oerth's struggle from without. My pawns worked against both sides, making small gains and checking the onward march of larger, more significant pieces. The error was in the approach. To truly block the return of He who would devour all that is, it has become necessary to introduce a new player, one who can act from the side of darkness itself to consume it from within.
With the gift of a single sword, an inevitable series of events has been initiated. There can be no atonement for the action I have now taken. I pray to the Archimage that I have seen true.
In other words, Mordenkainen freed Iuz in the hope that he would, for his own self-interest, oppose the return of Tharizdun.
The only part of the article I didn't review (if only because I had trouble reading the atrocious police they used). Figures..
W
Sounds interesting. Never thought of Mordenkainen as the nasty mage this thread makes him out to be. He sounds much more interesting now.
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Not bad, neutral.
P.
"What is it that makes a man turn...Neutral?"
Zap Brannigan - Futurama
Woesinger is correct. The information is in the excerpt from the Codex of Mordenkainen on page 5.
In other words, Mordenkainen freed Iuz in the hope that he would, for his own self-interest, oppose the return of Tharizdun.
Which, if you take Artifact of Evil as canon, Iuz did by using Obmi and the Boneshadow to grab one of the Theoparts from under the nose of the Black Brotherhood. Of course, the Theopart may have given Iuz the power to command the fiends so evident during the Wars - but as far as Mordywas concerned, you can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs. He chose the lesser of two evils as he saw it - one that he could pit against the agents of Good to keep the Balance.
So in this light - Rary and Robilar's actions make a little more sense. If Tenser and Otiluke were the targets of the attack on the Day of the Great Signing, then why?
Well - what if, during the course of the Wars, Tenser discovered the truth of what happened under Castle Greyhawk all those years before and thus was aware that Mordenkainen was one of the prime causes of the death and destruction happening all around them?
What if he told Otiluke and the two of them conspired together to set this proof before the gathered assembly at the Great Signing?
Well, obviously from the point of view of Mordenkainen and the Circle of Eight - that would be a disaster, since the Circle would be immediately considered outcasts in all the goodly kingdoms of the Flanaess. Very hard to pull strings in Greyhawk, Furyondy, Nyrond or Keoland when you're about as popular as a heretic at a Palish bonfire.
So, Mordy arranged the hit on the two archmages. Robilar might have been in on the why of it - after all he was the one who released Iuz. Whether Rary was a fully knowing accomplice (taking one for the team as it were), or was unknowingly manipulated by Mordy into killing the two mages is unclear. Given Rary's puissance, I'd say the former, rather than the latter.
So Tenser and Otiluke die in the fire fight while their clones get yakked by R&R's minions. Mordy's apprentice and closest confident, Bigby, arrives to "drive off" the traitors, and spin the tale of what happened - the account of events that appears in Rary the Traitor. Rary and Robilar retreat to the Bright to become a counterweight to the undamaged Urnsts and GH City (and later to Tenser - his return might have been engineered also - minus those inconvenient memories of course).
As Littlefinger in "A Song of Ice and Fire" says while squeezing a blood orange: "I love the juice, but hate the sticky fingers."
Intrigue, murder, betrayal, and not an Evil Twin Skippy in sight... :D
P.
I am running a world spanning adventure to recover the Rod of Seven Parts. Should I have the portion of the rod located in Oerth be in the Bright Desert or in the lands of Iuz?
***Note: Age of Worms spoiler follows***
Well, since one of the parts of the Rod was revealed in the Age of Worms Adventure Path recently, you could take it from there. I think it was located in a Wind Dukes cairn not terribly far from the Free City of Greyhawk (simply called the Free City in AoW).
You could either modify that episode of AoW to the appropriate power level of your game, or just take the location.
Warning!
****Age of Worms Spoilers****
AJS. I know they find a part in the Wind Dukes tomb but they find the 7th part in the actual adventure. I am going to have them find the first part so they can then find the other 6.
The second part will be on Athas. The third part in Eberron. The fourth part on a planet in one of the Crystal Spheres from Spelljammer. The fifth part in the Bright Desert. The sixth part Manzorian will recover as stated in the adventure path. The seventh part they will have to recover from the Rod of Seven Parts Adventure from Miska himself. :D
Neither myself nor my players have seen these worlds in 10+ years and no one has seen Eberron yet. Should be a lot of fun.
In other words, Mordenkainen freed Iuz in the hope that he would, for his own self-interest, oppose the return of Tharizdun.
I've been thinking a lot about this, but why would Mordenkainen free Iuz in the first place? Iuz was but a cambion when imprisoned by Zagyg in 505 CY and not yet a demigod, correct? If so, why would he reason that the release of a mere cambion would in any way, directly or indirectly, oppose the return of Tharizdun? Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't that like trying to stop a tsunami with a pea shooter? Or did Mordenkainen somehow learn of Iuz' rise to demipower status during his imprisonment? Something does not add up here (for me, anyway)...
Iuz was but a cambion when imprisoned by Zagyg in 505 CY and not yet a demigod, correct?
Most sources say that Iuz was a demipower when he was imprisoned (otherwise Zagig would have imprisoned eight demigods and a cambion, not nine demigods as the text claims).
While some have theorized that the act of imprisonment itself somehow raised Iuz to godhood, that's not official. Iuz became a demigod earlier than that, due to something called the Soul Husks beneath the Howling Hills (which I understand to be the drained corpses of solars and the like).
Even if Iuz achieved godhood during imprisonment (a neat trick), Mordenkainen may have been aware of this.
In any case, whether Iuz is a demigod or a cambion is pretty irrelevent. If Tharizdun gets free, Iuz and the rest of the Multiverse are greasy smears, whatever rung of the deity ladder Iuz is on. What's important to Mordenkainen's plans is Iuz's ambition, which run counter to the Black Brotherhood's goals of uniting the Theoparts. Even a cambion could put a serious crimp on those.