|#1PennarinJun 20, 2006 14:55:25||This class was developped with brun01, so he's co-author. I first had the idea months ago when I saw a DS specialist wizard PrC posted, but I wasn't satisfied. I have no qualms about PHB specialist wizards on Athas, but they sure don't bring much athasian flavor into the setting. Comes in the Path Devotee.|
The class was developped at the same time as the Aspirant. The same people who helped on that one helped on this one...let's name them anyway! :D : squidfur- and Methvezem. You rock guys!
“How well do you know your path, defiler?”
- Ibonos, dexter devotee
Path devotees follow one of the sorcerous paths—dexter or sinister—so completely that they attain great mastery over it. These devoted wizards are masters of their chosen sorcery, selling their mastery to sorcerer-kings and Veiled Alliance, depending on their path.
Devotees are usually single or multi-classed wizards, either preservers for dexter followers or defilers for sinister ones. Many of the former take levels in the Veiled One prestige class, filling a greater role as part of that secret organization, and many of the latter take levels in the Arch Defiler or Royal Defiler prestige classes. The majority of path devotees are humans, elves and half-elves.
Unfinished third paragraph.
Hit Die: d4.
To qualify to become a path devotee, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Feats: Path Dexter or Path Sinister, Skill Focus (Knowledge [arcana]).
Skills: Concentration 5 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks.
Spells: Able to cast 3rd-level arcane spells.
The path devotee’s class skills (and key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Disguise (Cha), Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.
|#2dirk00001Jun 20, 2006 17:01:56||I like! My only real criticism is, I think, that it might be a little overpowered - I'd suggest either dropping the bonus feat or else getting rid of the +1 Spellcaster level at 1st level, or possibly even completely banning the character from memorizing any spells from the opposing school rather than limiting them to 1/level. Just seems to me that the benefits you gain from this PrC far outweigh the existing 1-spell limit drawback, especially considering that, in comparison, the only benefit a straight wizard would gain over this PrC is 1 additional bonus wizard feat.|
|#3brun01Jun 20, 2006 17:45:16||I still like the original Ibonos quote better! :P|
|#4SysaneJun 20, 2006 19:55:20||Yeah, I'm going to have to agree that this looks alittle over powered for a PrC thats pretty easy to qualify for. Specifically this ability:|
Spell Swapping (Ex): The path devotee is so familiar with the spells selected from his chosen path feat that he can convert any 3rd-level or lower prepared spell into any 3rd-level or lower spell from among them.
If I'm understanding this correctly, this is effectively turning the wizard into some sort of spontaneous caster in two schools of magic for two specific spells per spell level? Have you checked the versatile spellcaster feat from Races of the Dragon? It maybe worth looking over and reworking this ability to something similar.
Even then, you may want to up the requirements for this PrC other than ranks in skills that most wizards would normally invest skill points on and a feat that they would also no doubt select. Another feat on skill focus (knowledge[arcane]) would be a step in the right direction.
Other than that, you have the makings of a good DS wizard PrC.
|#5PennarinJun 20, 2006 21:09:48||If you feel the class is overpowered then offer me a bit more options please, I'm open to suggestions. |
Removing Bonus Feat and/or adding Skill Focus (Knowledge [arcana]) might do it.
By removing Bonus Feat the progresion of class abilities would look midway between Arch Defiler and Black Cassock.
Spell Swapping basically comes from the Magelord PrC in Ancient Empires of Faerûn. If it works for the Magelord it works for the Devotee. The Magelord can swap spells he has Spell Mastery for, while a dexter devotee - for example - can swap spells he selected as part of his Path Dexter feat. In both cases the characters can broaden the scope of this spontaneous casting by taking Spell Mastery or Path Dexter several times, respectively.
|#6radnoviusJun 20, 2006 21:32:55||I'd have to agree that as written this PrC seems very overpowered. It basically gets the benefit of specialization in two schools without any restrictions. Also it is unbalanced in that the right hand is quite weaker than the left. Specialization in divination only requires sacrificing one school while all of the others require two. This was a problem I had with Path sinister/Dexter from the moment I read it though. That and conjuration never really struck me as particularly dark to begin with. I'd have said Necromancy/Evocation for Defilers and Abjuration/Transmutation or Enchantment (both are good at avoiding combat). Divination is too essential to a wizard (hence it cannot be discarded by a specialist), and everyone has heard that knowledge is power. Don't get me wrong I love the theme based PrCs, I just think it needs to be tempered with more restrictions/ requirements. Anyways, I'll get off my soap box and return to the class itself, suggestions:|
Prerecs: Require the Path feat x2 or x3, taking it multiple times reflects the wizards devotion to the path.
Path Adept: Dexters no longer access necromancy; Sinisters no longer access Abjuration. Bestow a -1 spellcraft penalty to learning spells form other schools and a -1 to saves versus spells from other schools.
Spell swapping: My initial reaction was the same as Sysane's. However, if you change it to require both the path feat and the spell mastery feat: The path devotee is so familiar with the spells selected from his chosen path feat that he can convert any 3rd-level or lower prepared spell into any 3rd-level or lower spell from among them if he is able to prepare them without the use of a spellbook. Upon attaining 5th level the path devotee can convert any 6th-level or lower prepared spell into any 6th-level or lower spell in the same manner, and upon attaining 9th level he can convert any 9th-level or lower prepared spell into any 9th-level or lower spell in the same manner.
Adept’s Prowess: The caster level bonus the path devotee gains from his chosen path feat now applies to all spells from one school of magic mentioned in his chosen path feat.
Bonus Feats: This gives more versatility to the defiler. Maybe give the preserver some additional choices that will be of particular benefit like skill foci for class skills or spell focus or mastery, or maybe eliminate this altogether.
Path Master: This is a little steep. Maybe just giva a bonus spell mastery feat here.
Just some suggestions. I think its a neat concept and believe making it a little more restrictive will balance out the PrC. Now for some quid pro quo; please go to my archive and make some suggestions on the Gnostic (revision 3) and Transcendent Scholar PrCs. I know that I'll have to rework the gnostic at least one more time, but I feel relatively confident in the TScholar (except for that 5th level ability).
|#7radnoviusJun 20, 2006 21:35:49||Penn, you posted while I was typing. Maybe you could make spell mastery more potent for the devotee like 5 path spells instead of 3 spells.|
|#8radnoviusJun 20, 2006 21:39:37||Just don't let xlorepdarkhelm see your path devotee. I'm still reeling from his rending of my gnostic class.|
|#9dirk00001Jun 20, 2006 23:15:06|
By removing Bonus Feat the progresion of class abilities would look midway between Arch Defiler and Black Cassock.
I say go with that - given that without the bonus feat a character is two feats down from what they'd have as a straight wizard, and otherwise the class isn't too much better than that of a specialist wizard (better yes, but then again it's also a PrC...). Also up the Spellcraft to 8 ranks; it's not much, but it forces the issue that, if you want to take the class at 6th level, you need to be "the best gosh darned wizard you can be."
|#10PennarinJun 21, 2006 0:41:40||I upped Spellcraft by 3 ranks, added Skill Focus (Knowledge [arcana]), and removed Bonus Feat.|
Radnovius, I initially had it that a dexter devotee (as an example) could only swap spells he had Path Dexter and Spell Mastery for. But the Magelord can do this while just requiering Spell Mastery, so I thought Path Dexter was enough.
As for the choice of not emulating totally the PHB mechanics for a specialist wizard - after all, I could have simply doubled the benefits and penalties - the reason was that knowledge of one path feat does not preclude that of another. Nowhere does it say in the feats' descriptions that you cannot take Sinister if you already have Dexter. As such, devoting yourself to one path should not preclude you from even having the path feat opposed to your own, nor should it preclude you from even having known spells or prepared spells from the schools listed under that path feat. What I did is reduce this to a bare minimum of 1 spell per spell level.
I too am finding the Path Master ability to be too good. Suggestions?
And I would welcome XlorepDarkHelm's comments on this or any of my PrCs anytime.
|#11PennarinJun 21, 2006 0:43:52|
I still like the original Ibonos quote better! :P
|#12radnoviusJun 21, 2006 2:29:51||More constructive criticism.|
A specialist wizard can prepare one additional spell of her specialty school per spell level each day. She also gains a +2 bonus on Spellcraft checks to learn the spells of her chosen school.
Path Adept grants two specializations (-1 bonus spell/spell level) and a +2 on saves versus spells of two schools. The only restriction is that he may only have one spell per level of the opposing path schools, odds are they would not be at the top of his list of spells anyways. As this is a prestige class it could be more powerful than a standard class but it still doesn't balance out. Suggested remedy: In addition to the current description, caster must already be specialized in a school listed in his path feat and have access to the other school and caster loses access to one additional school unless he was already an abjurer (to balance out divination).
Spell swapping conceptually makes more sense if the caster can prepare the spell from memory alone. Also the prereqs for Magelord seem a bit steeper than those for Path Devotee. Finally spell mastery only provides 3 spells for spontaneous casting for the MAgelord where Path provides 2 spells/spell level for a maximum of 18 spells/path feat taken :OMG!
Requisite feats: If going with a Skill Focus req, spellcraft would make more sense as it is what is used for learning and creating spells. Personally I'd be more apt to require Spell Focus for one or both path schools.
|#13PennarinJun 21, 2006 12:42:18||OK, somehow I did not notice the discrepencies between Path Dexter/Sinister and Spell Mastery. My bad.|
So I could reintroduce Spell Mastery as both a part of the Requirements and as an integral part of the Spell Swapping mehchanics. (This would required redesigning the Path Master ability.)
Albeit I'm pro-specialization for DS I'm not willing to request it be taken for one of the schools.
I'll be thinking hard on this, rest assured.