Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 max_writer Jun 26, 2006 18:50:33	Quick question: Is the slavelord temple from the four slavelord adventures the same as the (later) Temple of the Earth Dragon in Slavers?
#2 Mortepierre Jun 27, 2006 6:47:55	Doubtful since Turrosh Mak made a pact with the Earth Dragon only after the defeat of the original slavelords.
#3 kelanenprinceofswords Jun 27, 2006 11:15:31	I have wondered about this myself. As best I could figure, the current Earth Dragon Temple (formerly dedicated to Xerbo, I believe?) is either the same as the temple in A1 (which was reconsecrated to Gruumsh), or else the current temple of Gruumsh mentioned in descriptions of Highport is the temple from A1. I started (but haven't finished) working on a campaign that would begin with the 1st-level PCs held captive by orcs in the Undercity (in cages at area 18 on the sewer level map from A1). One of their orc captors is actually a human assassin from the Greyhawk Assassins guild in disguise, sent by Master Vesper to sabotage the slaver operations in Highport. This fellow sneaks weapons and the keys to the PCs while the other orcs are busy dicing for loot, drinking, or harrassing other captives, and points out where their possessions are stored. After properly equipping themselves, the party must fight or sneak their way out of the Undercity and Highport, and make it to relative safety in Safeton. It ultimately doesn't matter where in Highport the A1 temple is located, but it would be nice to get some opinions (or better yet, canonic evidence) from other GHers.
#4 max_writer Jun 28, 2006 15:25:15	That's what I'm looking for (though canon doesn't seem to have anything). My own notes on the temple of Gruumsh show its now little more than a one-story house with a large eye painted over the door unless I mis-copied the information from Slavers. I'm leaning towards the Temple of the Earth Dragon having taken over the old Temple of Gruumsh (from Slavelords), refurbished it, and are now using it. Love to hear opinions though. This is kind of important because one of the PCs has recently decided to be one of the dragon chosen of Bahumat (from Races of the dragon) and, though the Earth Dragon priests are not priests of Tiamat, he has learned that some of their regalia are the skulls of good dragons. He wants to hit the temple.
#5 zombiegleemax Jun 29, 2006 6:59:45	http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/lgmp/20050809a I did a treament of Highport for the LG Mysterious Places series. It was largely based on Slavers with a bit of elaboration. The Temple of the Earth Dragon was a Temple of Xerbo in a previous life. It's in the Old Port district and is quite a prominent building. The Temple of Grummsh is in the New Port district (to the west of the New Port) - which is populated mainly by orcs and other goblinkin. I've no clue as to where the temple from the original series might be (my secret shame is that I've never read the original Slaver series!). If you can point me to an relevent details, I could make some educated suggestions though. P.
#6 Mortepierre Jun 29, 2006 7:08:20	After re-reading A1, it's now clear to me that the Highport temple of the original series was dedicated to Gruumsh. The super-module (Scourge of the Slavelords) doesn't add much in regard to its location apart from the cryptic sentence The temple of Highport stands, not surprisingly, on the outskirts of the city of Highport.
#7 zombiegleemax Jun 29, 2006 10:26:12	Well, part of the New Port forms the western edge of the city - so the temple could be there. Alternatively it could be another temple of Gruumsh somewhere else on the outskirts (maybe the Eastwarrens) esp. if the temple gets nuked in the course of the module (which would make the one in the New Port a new construction).
#8 Elendur Jun 29, 2006 11:00:12	After re-reading A1, it's now clear to me that the Highport temple of the original series was dedicated to Gruumsh. The super-module (Scourge of the Slavelords) doesn't add much in regard to its location apart from the cryptic sentence Yeah but the A1 temple was a ruin, occupied by a priestess of Gruumsh. But I always assumed it was originally a human temple, since Highport used to be a human city.
#9 Mortepierre Jun 29, 2006 11:10:55	Not sure. The statue of Gruumsh looked a wee bit too good for something "thrown together" in a hurry. And I don't recall any description of rubble left by another statue or an inner sanctum ruined by the occupants. I see it rather as a small manor which the orcish priesthood converted into a temple.
#10 bastrak Jun 29, 2006 15:04:44	Though Scourge of the Slavelords is vague about the Temple's origin it seems clear to me it is a largely ruined Temple originally dedicated to another deity, which was sacked when Highport fell to the Humanoids in 513CY. Given the events of A1-4 are meant to take place in 581CY, this gives several decades time in which changes to the Temple could be made, such as the statue of Gruumsh. The description of Temple Level location 19 says "This was once a large high-ceilinged chamber, obviously the altar room of the previous temple. The ceiling was once built from stone arches which have now collapsed, crushing the altar..." which to me confirms it's earlier use and tends to suggest the earlier deity was not Gruumsh. It also seems unlikely that the worship of Gruumsh in what was a Human city prior to it's fall would have been sufficient to support a Temple. If you have not played them, all the A series adventures are IMO worth a look and not that hard to convert to 3.5, which I did last year.
#11 bastrak Jun 29, 2006 15:21:15	As best I could figure, the current Earth Dragon Temple (formerly dedicated to Xerbo, I believe?) is either the same as the temple in A1 (which was reconsecrated to Gruumsh), or else the current temple of Gruumsh mentioned in descriptions of Highport is the temple from A1. Looking at Slavers IMO either the Temple from A1 is the Temple of the Earth Dragon or it does not appear to be detailed therein. I am inclined towards the former. Regarding the Temple of the Earth Dragon, Slavers says "This building was once dedicated to the Suel God Xerbo but was desecrated on the Night of the Bloody Spear. With the ascendancy of the NEW Slavelords, the damaged Temple was stripped of it's old religious icons, rebuilt, redecorated and consecrated to the Earth Dragon". Unfortunately we are not told what the building was used for between the fall of Highport (Night of the Bloody Spear) and the rise of the New Slavelords but the Temple from A1 certainly fits IMO. The current Temple of Gruumsh in Slavers is a one story house so the Temple of Gruumsh must have relocated in Highport between A1 and Slavers.
#12 max_writer Jun 30, 2006 11:08:22	Thanks for the discussion and ideas. I found last night a throwaway reference to a "goddess" that was worshipped in the temple in Scourge of the Slavelords. Might or might not be relavent (though Xerbo is a male). Opinions?
#13 grodog Jul 02, 2006 13:43:12	Marc Tizoc's Wild Coast campaign (which, alas, I had to leave when we moved from CA back to KS) featured a lot of Wee Jas worship. Perhaps the female deity was Wee Jas? :D
#14 bastrak Jul 03, 2006 14:33:23	I found last night a throwaway reference to a "goddess" that was worshipped in the temple in Scourge of the Slavelords. Might or might not be relavent (though Xerbo is a male). Opinions? Interesting. Do you have a page number. I imagine the decision to make the Temple a former Temple of Xerbo was taken by the authors of Slavers since no specific deity is given in A1 or Scourge of the Slavelords.
#15 max_writer Jul 03, 2006 17:05:26	Scourge of the Slavelords: pg 32, center column, top of the page under entry #8, the Cemetery. It notes that the plants attack due to the intervention of the goddess that the temple was originally dedicated to.
#16 bastrak Jul 04, 2006 15:02:56	Scourge of the Slavelords: pg 32, center column, top of the page under entry #8, the Cemetery. It notes that the plants attack due to the intervention of the goddess that the temple was originally dedicated to. Thanks. I remember seeing this before now. Clearly the Temple from A1 was dedicated to a female deity originally. From what Grodog says it was or is likely to have been Wee Jas. I imagine this reference was overlooked by the authors of Slavers when they took the decision to make the Temple a former Temple of Xerbo.
#17 ripvanwormer Jul 04, 2006 16:10:06	It could have been jointly dedicated to Xerbo and Osprem. That seems like a good compromise, anyway.
#18 zombiegleemax Jul 05, 2006 4:43:57	I imagine this reference was overlooked by the authors of Slavers when they took the decision to make the Temple a former Temple of Xerbo. Or there was more than one really nice temple with arches etc in Highport. The A1 temple was a temple to Wee Jas that was converted to Grummsh, but collapsed/was gutted during/after the events of A1 (it's not as if orcs are great engineers or architects). The orcs themade a new ramshackle temple that we see in Slavers. Meanwhile, the temple in Slavers was a temple of Xerbo (the seafaring nature of the city would assure that it still had pirates, merchants and the like making offerings) until the Mak took over and reconsecrated it as a temple of the Earth Dragon (because the Wee Jas temple was in ruins).
#19 grodog Jul 05, 2006 8:56:51	Thanks. I remember seeing this before now. Clearly the Temple from A1 was dedicated to a female deity originally. From what Grodog says it was or is likely to have been Wee Jas. There was nothing in the original A1 mentioning a specific goddess; my allusion to Wee Jas is simply based on what Marc Tizoc was doing in his own personal Wild Coast/Pomarj game we were playing (which began just before Turrosh Mak invaded...). I imagine this reference was overlooked by the authors of Slavers when they took the decision to make the Temple a former Temple of Xerbo. For reference, the original quotation from A1 follows: This area is avoided by the orcs and half-orcs unless they come in large numbers, for they dislike the plants that grow here. These plants have managed to become animated through the will of the goddess whose temple this was. Although unwilling to interfere more directly than this, she has made the garden unsafe for all who enter.
#20 bastrak Jul 05, 2006 15:36:21	my allusion to Wee Jas is simply based on what Marc Tizoc was doing in his own personal Wild Coast/Pomarj game we were playing (which began just before Turrosh Mak invaded...). Sorry. Misunderstanding on my part. It looks like it's anyone's guess who the female goddess (that the Temple in A1 was originally dedicated to) was intended to be then, if any specific deity. Given the lack of any detail in A1 the identity of the goddess was effectively left to the DM's discretion for that module. Ripvanwormer's joint dedication to Osprem and Xerbo compromise sounds good to me.
#21 scoti_garbidis Jul 07, 2006 7:12:48	Looks like the goddess could have been associated with plants, fter reading that quote.
#22 cwslyclgh Jul 08, 2006 18:06:50	Wenta maybe? note that it is quite possible that Sean just overlooked the goddess refernce when writing Slavers, and realy meant for it to be the temple of Xerbo.
#23 bastrak Jul 09, 2006 5:53:35	note that it is quite possible that Sean just overlooked the goddess refernce when writing Slavers, and realy meant for it to be the temple of Xerbo. In the circumstances I'd agree that is very likely to be what actually happened.
#24 max_writer Jul 10, 2006 10:51:43	That's what I'm leaning towards right now too.
#25 zombiegleemax Jul 11, 2006 13:51:43	Do u think that they will ever update those classic modules?