Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 seker Jul 31, 2006 0:38:04	Preserver and Defilers: The mechanics for defiling and preserving, as well as the when a preserver will become a defiler and vice versa, are as per the rules from Athas.org. However the effects of becoming an actual defiler changes, as the defiler and preserver are seperate classes which a character can convert back and forth from under very specific circumstances. Conversion: When converting between the two classes the following remains the same: hit points, BAB, saving throws, skills, and weapon proficiencies. Preserver to Defiler: Loses wizard bonus feats, wizard spellcasting progression, familiar; and gains defiler bonus feats (as appropriate), defiler spell progression and chooses his known spells from his current spellbook. Defiler to Preserver: Loses defiler bonus feats and defiler spellcasting progression; and gains wizard bonus feats, wizard spellcasting progression, and familiar. Preserver game mechanics: As described in 3.5 Players Handbook, with the following changes. Alignment: Any (tends towards lawful and good though). Hit Die: d4. Class Skills The preserver’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Disguise (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Literacy (None), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int). Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier. [u]Class Features[/u] Spellbooks: In most places on Athas, reading is illegal, and the practice of magic even more so. Preservers must develop ways to hide their spellbooks from curious eyes; else they face certain discovery and death. Familiars: Preservers may choose from all familiars from the Player's Handbook; with the exception of the toad or weasel, as these animals do not exist on Athas. In addition Preservers may choose from the Athasian familiars list from Athas.org. Bonus Feats: Preservers add the feat Path Dexter in addition to those listed in the Player's Handbook. Defiler game mechanics: Alignment: Any (tends towards lawful and nongood though). Hit Die: d4. Class Skills The defiler’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Disguise (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Literacy (None), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int). Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.
#2 xanthus Jul 31, 2006 14:19:11	Wow, I really must say I like this set up. It's definitely something I'll forward along to my DM regarding Athasian arcanists. It sets up fundamental differences between them, gives the Defilers a very strong edge but still more or less keeps game balance intact just the same. Also, it increases the power of the defilers through specifically forcing them to take raze feats (that they were going to take anyway). Also, the defiler prep feat is quite strong, I'm glad it's not a class feature and instead is an aside thing. I enjoy this alot. Consider it yoinked -X
#3 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Jul 31, 2006 14:38:48	Interesting, I think we've talked about using sorcerers in e-mails back and forth before, seker. I personally do think that sorcerer is closer to defiler than preserver, but I don't make quite the hard distinction/separation between defiler and preserver through separate classes like that. For my campaigns I explain that since Sorcerers are almost never trained in how to use their abilities, but rely more on instinct and self-discovery (I see the class being much more based on individual effort and development rather than training), they very quickly slip into bein Defilers, while Wizards tend to need to be somehow trained in their arts, and so there are more Preservers that are Wizards than Sorcerers. I also like to estrange the two classes from each other -- Wizards are both envious and confused as to how Sorcerers can use arcane magic, resulting in Sorcerers being frequently shunned by Wizards, and the Veiled Alliance as well, even Preserver Sorcerers. Even those that are "accepted" are not really treated as equals, and must work harder within such an organization in order to prove themselves.
#4 seker Jul 31, 2006 19:06:16	Interesting, I think we've talked about using sorcerers in e-mails back and forth before, seker. I personally do think that sorcerer is closer to defiler than preserver, but I don't make quite the hard distinction/separation between defiler and preserver through separate classes like that. For my campaigns I explain that since Sorcerers are almost never trained in how to use their abilities, but rely more on instinct and self-discovery (I see the class being much more based on individual effort and development rather than training), they very quickly slip into bein Defilers, while Wizards tend to need to be somehow trained in their arts, and so there are more Preservers that are Wizards than Sorcerers. I also like to estrange the two classes from each other -- Wizards are both envious and confused as to how Sorcerers can use arcane magic, resulting in Sorcerers being frequently shunned by Wizards, and the Veiled Alliance as well, even Preserver Sorcerers. Even those that are "accepted" are not really treated as equals, and must work harder within such an organization in order to prove themselves. I know xlor, and we create great things when we put our heads together on stuff like that. I still remember when we were working on balancing your original dragon idea.... which was I have to say very very good. But you will notice the defiler class I built up is not quite a sorcerer.... the system is similiar but NOT identical. I actually built it into a crossover of sorcerer and wizard with penalties and bonuses therein.
#5 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Jul 31, 2006 19:40:38	I know xlor, and we create great things when we put our heads together on stuff like that. I still remember when we were working on balancing your original dragon idea.... which was I have to say very very good. But you will notice the defiler class I built up is not quite a sorcerer.... the system is similiar but NOT identical. I actually built it into a crossover of sorcerer and wizard with penalties and bonuses therein. yea, I noticed there are differences.
#6 1bent1 Jul 31, 2006 22:24:02	I've been a lurker for quite a while and rarely post but this I enjoy! I like what you have done. I like the difference between the too. I personaly thought there should be more of a difference betwen the two except feat choice. I understand the resrictions put on the DS3 project to balance keep balance amongst classes and i aplaud them in the superb job, but in this regard I believe a balance is so against the theme and history of DarkSun. Great job Seker
#7 zombiegleemax Jul 31, 2006 22:28:22	it's all good in my book, keep up the good work, it's all stuff one could use in their games
#8 seker Jul 31, 2006 23:35:17	Thank you I appreciate the compliments, I was really trying to keep the two groups balanced with this system while keeping the fluff... and I hope i have done so. Can anyone see anything, mechanically speaking, that makes the two unbalanced.... I was really considering totally redoing the number of known spells on it... but wanted to keep it simple. Oh btw the reason I have defilers losing familiars is the fact that their magic causes pain to all within the defiler radius which would include the familiar and I see that as something that would strain/break a familiar bond. I am looking at creating a feat, something like defiling familiar which would allow them to take a special familiar that was not adversely effected by defiling. but they would lose the standard class skill.