Originally Posted by Ambreville
Hi there.
Of course, the idea is a good one. The problem I run into is that I am too busy to remain consistently present and available to answer questions. So bear with me if something like that gets put in place.
Cheers!
Bruce
Bruce, I admire your work with Mystara, especially the Savage Coast, where you created an entire sub-setting to go along with the Known World. I like how it had its own themes (e.g. the Red Curse and swashbuckling) but was neatly woven into the wider Mystara continuity. I also like how you stuck to the Known World model with tiny countries based on a kaleidoscope of real world cultures. Did you ever entertain thoughts about making another sub-setting on Mystara?
Shane
Bruce, I admire your work with Mystara, especially the Savage Coast, where you created an entire sub-setting to go along with the Known World. I like how it had its own themes (e.g. the Red Curse and swashbuckling) but was neatly woven into the wider Mystara continuity. I also like how you stuck to the Known World model with tiny countries based on a kaleidoscope of real world cultures. Did you ever entertain thoughts about making another sub-setting on Mystara?
Not within the scope of the Princess Ark. By the time the PA series ended, the Mystara line had gone over to a different design group focused on the AD&D game. The passion just wasn't there. It pretty much ended any long term planning for this product line. By then TSR's finances also were at their worst which didn't help. If the PA series had continued, either Northwestern Davania would have become the next area of focus, or inland areas north of the Savage Coast.
Bruce
If the PA series had continued, either Northwestern Davania would have become the next area of focus, or inland areas north of the Savage Coast.
Bruce, thanks for your response. Have you sketched out your ideas (even rough ideas) for these areas in your mind or on paper? If so, is there anything you can share, or would it be best to save them for any (hopefully) future VotPA adventures?
My impression is that at the time of the Gazetteer line, you were mostly organizing freelancers to do the writing. Most of whom, possibly were not even in the same workplace as you. Was it lonely work? Did any of the other TSR designers pitch in with ideas now and then (even if not credited)? How was your working relationship with Aaron Allston?
Havard
Bruce, I like the Mystara Reference Guide you posted years ago (http://pandius.com/refguide.html) - it's a succinct summary of the setting and has nifty vaporware nuggets. In it you state:
Mystara also is hollow! The inside of the planet hides new continents and mysteries that perhaps only a handful of people in the Known World have ever heard of.
This fantastic setting is fully described in the Hollow World Reference Guide.
I was wondering...is the Hollow World Reference Guide still extant?
Shane
Bruce, over on this thread - http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=682234 - Geoff posed a question about the vaporware module X11: Blackheart, which was reportedly replaced by X11: Saga of the Shadow Lord. Can you shed any light on this?
Boy, this does go way back... Around that time period, there was a tendency at TSR to come up with product titles very early in the production process for the purpose of filling slots on TSR's yearly release catalog. In some cases, no author/in-house-advocate was attached to a project (hence the resulting vaporware when production hit the proverbial speedbump several months later).
Why did they do that?
100% of TSR sales relied on pre-sales to outside distributors up to about 15 months prior to release dates. If a product did not hit the shelves when promised to distributors, that product was 100% dead (hence the term "deadline"). This meant a total loss to TSR. As a result, products where planned way in advance, even to the point of dreaming up titles and module numbers sometimes without a clue as to what these products would be.
This changed a few years later for several reasons. The above was a big one. :D
Other reasons had to do with a much more aggressive/empowered management on the part of product managers (including myself when I took over Mystara's direction), and their conscious effort to make sure future products were actually integrated in a design strategy for their game worlds. For a few years Mystara/D&D was an orphan product line with no in-house advocate, which made it an ideal terrain for vaporware or purely "title-driven" designs. There was a number of these back then. Another factor was my involvement as director of production planning for all of TSR game products which prevented the emergence of vaporware and other undefined/unassigned/unbudgeted projects.
Bruce
Bruce, thanks for your response. Have you sketched out your ideas (even rough ideas) for these areas in your mind or on paper? If so, is there anything you can share, or would it be best to save them for any (hopefully) future VotPA adventures?
I maintained a sketch list of ideas for a few adventures ahead of time. These went from just a sentence or two to a couple paragraphs' worth of thoughts about a place or a general adventure theme. Some where pretty hare-brained ideas I dared not publish. Very often, adventure plots happened as the result of the magazine's editor-in-chief waving a magical wand called "DEADLINE" -- which suddenly made me very creative and industrious. ;)
VotPA started out as something that no-one expected to see last very long in Dragon Magazine. As such, there never was any long term plans or serious concept development prior to the beginning of the series in the magazine. VotPA kind of invented itself along the way and was retained by the magazine as a regular feature because it quickly became very popular. There is something such as successful tapdancing when circumstances demand it. Don't try this at home. Usually, this does not work.
I think I still have some of these ideas... zipped, somewhere on my hard drive for the past 15 years, several new computer incarnations later. I hope...
Bruce
I have another question for Bruce:
My impression is that at the time of the Gazetteer line, you were mostly organizing freelancers to do the writing. Most of whom, possibly were not even in the same workplace as you. Was it lonely work? Did any of the other TSR designers pitch in with ideas now and then (even if not credited)? How was your working relationship with Aaron Allston?
Havard
This is correct. At the time of the Gazetteer launch my job was to manage freelance designers. In addition to this, I was also designated as the de-facto Basic D&D-guy since no one else at TSR gave a hoot about that product line. As a result of this, in the mid-80's nearly ALL of D&D/Mystara projects went to freelancers. A convenient thing since I managed freelancers.
It was almost a certainly that freelancers would operate from other places. One of the exceptions was... myself. I was a freelancer for my own products, under the approval of my direct report. The company trusted me enough to allow me that kind of latitude.
Aaron Allston was in Texas. A great guy, very patient with his demanding TSR contact. Aaron had a lot of impact on Mystara obviously. Ken Rolston was in New Jersey. Carl Sargent was in England. Ed Greenwood was in Canada. I had authors in West Virginia, Massachusetts, California, Colorado, etc. A few authors were staffers who ended up designing Mystara products as the result of budgeting, internal politics, misguided intentions, and so forth. These weren't successful with Mystara because they weren't familiar enough or honestly that interested in the series.
In-house staff had little to do with the actual writing of the products, especially early in the Gazetteer series. There was an in-house "team-Mystara" who got together to do some general concept work especially when putting together a product lineup for the next year, but they usually worked on other products. Their impact was limited, except for staffer Steven Schend who did an incredible job with the compilation of the Rules Compendium.
Bruce
I was wondering...is the Hollow World Reference Guide still extant?
Shane
Honestly I have no clue. I'm not sure I have this material.
Bruce
Thought I'd say how glad I am that you allowing us to have access to you, Bruce. Thanks for the time you spend and the experiences you share with us - it is much appreciated.
You're welcome! :D
Also, a second but related question- where did the Flaemish lack of tolerance for Immortals derive from? From their introduction in Gaz3, they seem to have had a degree of religious bent in their past (they call the time traveling students "infidels" and are preparing to sacrifice them to the Great Flame). Again, is it just a lack of tolerance for "named" Immortals as opposed to the elemental powers (like fire) more than anything else?
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter.
I have a question for Bruce. How do you envision the Temples of Rad in Glantri? For a nation that seems to be vehemently anti-religion, the Temples seem to be pretty standard religious institutions- they have services, clergy/shepherds who receive their commands from "on high" (the Brotherhood of the Radiance). Is it just that they don't worship named Immortals that sets them apart from other religious organizations in the Known World?
Temples of Rad are a cynical sham. They were put in place as an ersatz religion. They look like a religion, they taste like a religion, but... they're really not. They are a "place-holder" in case some people feel the need to honor a greater power, but they are really a front for the Brotherhood of the Radiance. They are an excuse for a religion in a place that does not tolerate clerical orders, and would never allow any kind of clergy developing political power that could potentially interfere with that of wizards. Temples of Rad are "OK" because they are an integral part of the power that emanates from beneath Glantri City, however secret it may be.
Also, a second but related question- where did the Flaemish lack of tolerance for Immortals derive from? From their introduction in Gaz3, they seem to have had a degree of religious bent in their past (they call the time traveling students "infidels" and are preparing to sacrifice them to the Great Flame). Again, is it just a lack of tolerance for "named" Immortals as opposed to the elemental powers (like fire) more than anything else?
Immortals are responsible for the destruction of their original homeland, thus their current distrust of anything Immortal. Elements can be controlled. Immortals cannot. And since the Flaems are control freaks, you get the picture... :D
It regards the "horrible monsters" that may be found in the Lost Valey east of N'djatwaland.
This is the sentence (VotPA, part 6):
To the west (of N'djatwaland) lies a very large mountain range, and to the east a land of horrible monsters. The latter is mostly surrounded with mountains, but occasionally monsters wander into their lands, near the Green River. The N'djatwa built fortified walls in several mountain passes to prevent these destructive incursions.
Most surprising was the old female's mention of the lands that lie farther to the east. Ngezitwa said that it was the realm of the titans, huge creatures that seem to spend their time fighting and destroying each other.
This is the only reference to the Lost Valley in the whole VotPA (and in the whole offical supplements, as far as I know). Now, I suppose that the "titans" may be identified with the Earthshkers of Vulcania described in your articles about Snartapolis and in the Book of Wondrous Inventions.
But what about the "horrible monsters"? Which kind of monsters you were thinking about? They are not mentioned anywhere else.
I think that these monsters should be quite a tough race (races?), given the fact that the N'djatwa (a race that has the best parts of the elven and ogrish heritages) need to build mountain fortresses to keep them at bay.
The question may seem (and actually is) of little importance, but it would be great to hear something from you. Thanks in advance.
But what about the "horrible monsters"? Which kind of monsters you were thinking about? They are not mentioned anywhere else.
I think that these monsters should be quite a tough race (races?), given the fact that the N'djatwa (a race that has the best parts of the elven and ogrish heritages) need to build mountain fortresses to keep them at bay.
You have to keep your tongue firmly planted in your cheek here. OK, we have natives guarding a mist-shrouded forgotten valley with big-huge wooden palissades, and even bigger-huger-sized "horrible monsters". Doesn't it ring a big-huge bell, hmmm?
Sounds like the kind of place where you ought to meet the likes of King Kong or Godzilla! :D
Sounds like the kind of place where you ought to meet the likes of King Kong or Godzilla! :D
Just next to a valley of Gigantic Metal men. Ideal for Giant Monsters vs. Giant Robots! Neat
Havard
I have some questions about the semi-Mystaran subsettings:
1) Do you recall any conversations among TSR designers about where Ghyr, Thunder Rift, and Karawenn (from Douglas Niles' First Quest Trilogy) may be located on Mystara?
2) Do you remember in which Mystaran ocean Islandia was going to be located prior to the cancellation of BX1: The Islandia Campaign?
3) Do you personally have any opinion on the inclusion of these subsettings in Mystara and their location therein?
Shane
Bruce, thanks for your responses.
I have some questions about the semi-Mystaran subsettings:
1) Do you recall any conversations among TSR designers about where Ghyr, Thunder Rift, and Karawenn (from Douglas Niles' First Quest Trilogy) may be located on Mystara?
2) Do you remember in which Mystaran ocean Islandia was going to be located prior to the cancellation of BX1: The Islandia Campaign?
3) Do you personally have any opinion on the inclusion of these subsettings in Mystara and their location therein?
Suure... toss me stuff that goes way, way back! Thunder Rift was never intended to be placed anywhere specifically. It was supposed to remain a generic entry-level adventure with some Mystara tie-in (essentially for the Marketing folks). You'll have to refresh my memory about Ghyr though. Karawenn was also supposed to be pretty generic, but I suspect it could be located somewhere in Norwold since this is the place Doug developed in Mystara. Islandia was never actually written as a product. This was a proposal submitted by outside people that a well-meaning in-house manager decided to summarily dump into Mystara since it didn't fit anywhere in the AD&D worlds (none of the AD&D product managers really wanted it so I got it instead, gee thanks)... and, following some major foot-dragging, the pesky proposal went away. As such it was never really incorporated into the Mystara world.
You'll have to refresh my memory about Ghyr though.
Ghyr is the kingdom where the Quest for the Heartstone is set -- the one with those pregenerated characters, the Paladin Strongheart, Figgen Halffellow, etc, who later appeared in X10 as the rulers of Ierendi.
GP
Ghyr is the kingdom where the Quest for the Heartstone is set -- the one with those pregenerated characters, the Paladin Strongheart, Figgen Halffellow, etc, who later appeared in X10 as the rulers of Ierendi.
OK, thanks. The same can be said of Ghyr then. The pregen characters were actually trademarked action figure toys that were marketed in the mid 80's. Their kingdom eventually found its way into Mystara much in the same manner as other orphan projects did. They weren't originally conceived as Mystaran entities but became so by default since the toys were marketed for kids -- thus the Basic D&D Game.
Shane
Many fans go to at least 1 or 2 conventions each year. I have been fortunate enough to have met Mr. Gygax, had a conversation with Larry Elmore, and played in a game run by Dave Arneson (as well as meeting other people like Peter Jackson and Walter Koenig). I am, however, missing the one RPG-related person who I would like to have met--you! Do you visit many conventions, and if so, do you have a schedule of which cons you plan to attend? Of particular interest to me are any cons in Georgia or the Gulf Coast region (DragonCon, CoastCon & CC Jr., Crecent City Con, Mobicon, Exoticon)?
Thanks,
Roger
Bruce, I was wondering, what Real World country is Eusdria of the Savage Coast intended to evoke? The Realm of the Franks?
Yes, that would be the Franks --circa RW 800 AD. Good guess here! ;)
Bruce,
Many fans go to at least 1 or 2 conventions each year. I have been fortunate enough to have met Mr. Gygax, had a conversation with Larry Elmore, and played in a game run by Dave Arneson (as well as meeting other people like Peter Jackson and Walter Koenig). I am, however, missing the one RPG-related person who I would like to have met--you! Do you visit many conventions, and if so, do you have a schedule of which cons you plan to attend? Of particular interest to me are any cons in Georgia or the Gulf Coast region (DragonCon, CoastCon & CC Jr., Crecent City Con, Mobicon, Exoticon)?
Well, Gawain, thanks for thinking of me in the same paragraph as Mr. Gygax and Dave Arneson! I'm flattered! ;)
The last convention I attended was WindyCon last month. So far, I've only been attending local conventions in the Great Lakes area. Sorry, no travel plans for now. Generally, I'm just visiting and meeting friends. If you guys are interested, we can coordinate something for the next local convention, either as an official event (seminar or other), or just a get together for lunch or dinner in the area. That would be fun I think.
Cheers!
Any chance you might attend Winter's Dark in Lake Geneva, January 20th and 21st, 2007? It's a Troll Lord Games event, dedicated to classic style games...
From the website: http://www.lggc.net/w-l-index.html
Come forth from your holes, your keeps and castles and travel to the land upon the lakes and take up arms with us in the Cove for it will be a Viking’s Winter in Lake Geneva. Troll Lord Games is proud to host a winter fest to be held in the same locale as the Lake Geneva Gaming Convention. So if you have the stuff to brave the winter cold then come out and join us in Lake Geneva at the Cove. We’ll have some special Castles & Crusades events run by Stephen Chenault and of course Gary Gygax will be running Lejendary Adventure!
I hope to be able to make it myself, this year... I've missed their LGGC cons due to work so close to con season...
Good to have you here. I'm curious about whether anything was ever decided in TSR about one of the bigger 'open-ended mysteries' of the Poor Wizard's Almanac line - the identity of the never-before-seen Gareth. He showed up in Sind in AC 1010, started building a following on a platform of "Immortals shouldn't use mortals as pawns", and has been speculated by us to be... well, a whole lot of different possible folks. Everyone from Benekander to Loki or an Old One.
So was there ever anything decided in-house, by you, Ann Dupuis (who IIRC was the Almanacs' primary writer) or others? Anything that was definitely ruled out?
Thanks in advance.
Another is the fate of Etienne d'Ambreville. He disappears at the end of WOTI, but reappears in the Mark of Amber adventure, though his status is left somewhat undecided at the end of that adventure. It would be really interesting to hear what, if any, insights you have on poor old Etienne and how he was going to be dealt with officially after Mark of Amber.
Any chance you might attend Winter's Dark in Lake Geneva, January 20th and 21st, 2007? It's a Troll Lord Games event, dedicated to classic style games...
That's possible. Anyone else attending??
So was there ever anything decided in-house, by you, Ann Dupuis (who IIRC was the Almanacs' primary writer) or others? Anything that was definitely ruled out?
This is an idea that never got fully developped, and unfortunately remained in the gray zone. Although nothing was decided or ruled out, my original penchant was for an Old One.
Another is the fate of Etienne d'Ambreville. He disappears at the end of WOTI, but reappears in the Mark of Amber adventure, though his status is left somewhat undecided at the end of that adventure. It would be really interesting to hear what, if any, insights you have on poor old Etienne and how he was going to be dealt with officially after Mark of Amber.
It's hard to give insight on a period time during which I was not directly involved with the development of Mystara products. I doubt very much that there was going to be any "official" answer to Etienne's fate after Mark of Amber. That's left to anyone's speculation. The bottom line is -- if you want Etienne, he's there. If he got disintegrated somehow, I'm sure there a way to bring him back, starting with time travel and such. :D
I know that a long time back (around the advent of 3E), you had mentioned that you were planning an article for Dragon magazine on the Tortles, in the vein of your articles on Rakastas and Lupins. I'm wondering- did you ever get very far in that process, and is there any chance that work might see the light of day?
Along those lines- any chance of another Princess Ark episode again? I really enjoyed the return to Alphatia in the latest installment.
Thanks!
I believe you have been asked something similar to this elsewhere, but I couldn't find it in any archives.
What historical Earth cultures do you wish had been better represented with a Mystara analog?
Also, are there are portions of the planet you wish could have been better developed? Especially are there any corners outside the Known World you wished you could have seen handled?
Lastly, is it your opinion that all of Mystara's "superpowers" are concentrated in the Known World (if Hule can also be lumped in)? If not, do you have any opinion where else they could be?
Here is the Gaz 13 paragraph excerpt with Roger's note, emphasis by me:
[INDENT]There are also the shadow-elf babies adopted by the humanoids. Some of them will come to think as humanoids, but most are far too intelligent. Some will come to be contacted by the Wanderers; some will intuitively feel elven sympathies of their own; others will gain experience and then leave the humanoid lands in disgust. You may want to effect reality shifts with certain powerful "humanoids" actually being shadow elves. [This occurs in later MYSTARA products; for instance, King Kol of the Great Crater, now a prince in Glantri, is thought to be a spellcasting kobold but is actually a mutant shadow elf.--Roger][/INDENT]
Did Roger (make that Monte) just make this up, that Kol was a shadow elf, or was this a hidden, behind-the-scenes, plan all along?
Now, as to whether that was Bruce's or the Mystara editorials intent all along or not, I couldn't say. (But that point has met with much discussion over the years on the Mystara Mailing List, and a little bit here, to say the least.)
I have sent you a Private Message, concerning a Mystaran request... It's contents are secret, so SHH!
I know you're an extremely busy man, but if you could check your PMs and get back with me on that, I would be overly joyed.
Thanks,
Roger
are you familiar with the French cartoon show Les Mondes Engloutis/The Engulfed Worlds/Spartakus and the Sun beneath the Sea? If so, did this have any influence on the creation of the Hollow World?
The show meshes very well with the HW setting. I have explored this connection in this thread:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=810412
You can view the intro of the show here to remind you of what I am talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvIqDPjbuSg
Havard
The war galley was very heavily armed with catapults and ballistas. I could see metal bolts all along its hull, holding together an ominous coating of metal plates. This ship was not built to fly in the air, like the Princess; it would require far too much magic to be worthwhile. I suspect it was built in this airless void with the help of several smaller vessels. Large feathery oars slowly rowed the galley through space, occupying four decks of the ship. The strangest sight, however, were a half-dozen small black boats — for lack of a better term — tethered to poles at the sides and stern of the galley. These were each large enough for one man and had man-made wings and tails like those of ravens. Two rods, probably weapons packed with Heldannic clerical magic, jutted from beneath the wings.
This huge war galley is followed by some other "common" Heldannic warbirds. Now, which kind of ship is it? It seems like the Heldanners are skilled Void explorers. Must this ship's weight be subtracted to the powers of the Vanya's artifact? Or does this voidship use another method of propulsion (as if it was a captured ship belonging to another race/culture)?
over the last year or so, I've been editing a series of fan gazetteers based upon the contributions of various peoples at the Vaults of Pandius and here on the Mystaran Message Board.
This month, the seventh installment of the GazF line has just hit the "stands" : The Heldannic Order. The gazetteer is based substantially upon your writings during the early years of the listserv, and in due recognition of your work in creating and later embellishing the Heldannic Knights, we've credited you as the honorary lead designer.
It's been shaped somewhat to fit within the GazF line, but I think (hope) that the gaz is true to the spirit of your original ideas.
You can find the thread for the Heldannic gazetteer here.
If you are interested, you easily can find the first six gazetteers on this thread. This presently includes Wendar, Denagoth, the Northern Wildlands, semi-canonical Ghyr, and the non-canonical Western Alliance and Kingdom of Littonia.
Cordially,
OldDawg (JTR)
In "From Hatchling to Immortal Guardian"
You write:
The Glantrian Wizard-Prince, Lord Jaggar von Drachenfels, became the Star Dragon and discovered the truth behind his power. He withdrew his claim on the rulership of all lawful dragons, in exchange for which he earned the Great One's absolution. He now refrains from abusing dracomancy in order to spare the dragon souls. He presently works on a project to reform the Circle of Dragon Mastery to further goodwill toward dragonkind rather than the misuse of draconic power. For this, lawful dragons have become more respectful of the High Master and his disciples. The same does not hold true for chaotic dragons, and as a result of the reform proposal there is great dissension among the three branches of dracomancy.
When does this withrawl from the ruleship takes place?
In 1000AC, gazeteer time, he is said to be the star dragon.
In G:KoM Jaggar, who is a baddy now (probably because of Synn/Dolores Hilsburry) is not the star dragon. I assume he is a Crystallin dracologist (you know, the uniform...)
But that thing is probably because the transition to AD&D removed the immortal capabilities of the high-masters (although that does not happen for Elementalists).
So is it safe to assume the deal with the Great One took place sometime between gaz time and Wrath of the Immortals?
Thank you so much for all the classics you created for Mystara. 20 years have past and I am still enjoying them!
Ohad
There is a continued Q&A thread with Bruce Heard over at The Piazza.
-Havard