Adventures: Paladins take their adventures seriously, and have a penchant for referring to them as quests. Even a mundane mission from their sorcerer-king is treated as a personal test - an opportunity to demonstrate and develop their martial skills, and to find ways to better achieve their master's goals. Still, the paladin really comes into his own when leading a mighty campaign against the enemies of his master, not when merely looting ruins.
Characteristics: Divine power from his sorcerer-kings protects the paladin and gives him special powers. It wards off harm, causes terror or inflicts damage in their enemies, provides enhancements and bonuses to his allies, and allows them to smite enemies of his monarch or to take control over undead. In addition, this power draws a mighty steed to the paladin and imbues that mount with strength, intelligence and magical properties.
[indent]
The paladins of Gulg are fanatically loyal to the sorcerer-queen, Lalai-Puy, and they believe she protects them from the city of Nibenay, with whom they are at war.
Lalai-Puy's paladins are also known as champions—each is hand-picked to lead the Oba's armies, and two dozen are selected to protect and guard her, a position that each paladin aspires to.
Lalai-Puy's champions wear usually medium and occasionally heavy armor, all made from organic pieces—mostly chitin, leather, and bone. Due to Gulg's fixation on the protection of the forests, the champions do not wield any weapons or use any equipment made from wood—that would be offensive to the Oba.[/indent]
[indent]
All of the Shadow King's paladins are women, and like the templars of Nibenay, they serve as the Shadow King's wives. Each lives within the walls of the Naggaramakam, serving her monarch and husband as he desires.
Unlike the Shadow King's templars, the paladins of Nibenay are not permitted any concubines—their service is to never waver with any possible outside influences. The Nibenese paladins are noted for wearing only partial armor, while remaining completely nude otherwise. So a paladin might wear a chitin breastplate and helm, but nothing else adorning them. The rigid, fierce demeanor of the Nibenese paladins, however, keeps any lewd thoughts out of any onlooker's mind.
When not in the Naggaramakam, the paladins are seen on the battlegrounds leading the Nibenese armies, or stationed within the city-state as guards and a vicious police force.[/indent]
[indent]
The paladins of the Lion of Urik are almost unanimously his generals and leaders of his armies, instructors and trainers on his military training grounds. Due to Hamanu's warlike nature and his determination to fight on the front lines, side-by-side with his troops, his paladins follow his lead, and also lead his armies from the front. Many even have first-hand fought side-by-side with their king and god themselves.
The Urikite paladins are uniformly seen wearing full plate chitin armor, even in the heat of the day, emblazoned with a lion's head on their breastplate. They all have weapons made of obsidian from Urik's mines, as well as large shields emblazoned with the Lion of Urik on their surface.
Urik's paladins are frighteningly warlike, and have no tolerance for cowardice of any kind. Even fear in your eyes or actions when dealing with them has often been enough for the paladin to kill the offender.[/indent]
[indent]
Paladins exist for any of the sorcerer-kings, past or present. The three I outlined above are those that currently exist and are regularly encountered—but they are not the sum of all paladins in Athas. Kalak of Tyr's paladins primarily were focused on the construction of the ziggurat; they regularly were seen wielding whips to keep those building it in line. Tectuctitlay of Draj's paladins were savage warriors leading the charge in the Draji army. Abalach-Re of Raam's paladins (mostly male) were primarily a police force keeping the peace and preventing anarchy from exploding across the city. Andropinis of Balic's paladins were commanders and officers of the Balician Fleet.
Far off to the distant north, hidden away and lost to time and the memories of the seven main city-states, are two more cities ruled by sorcerer-kings. For the prison-state of Eldaarich, where Daskinor the Mad rules, most of his paladins are members of the Red Guard; a thuggish, brutish arm of his government referred to as the "Heel of the King" that keeps the workers in line—unlike the paladins of the south, Daskinor's paladins do not have the Lawful allegiance—they are Chaotic; as such, the abilities granted a paladin with regards to Lawful allegiance are changed to Chaotic allegiance.
The secretive and hidden city-state of Kurn, lead by the avangion Oronis, have paladins which do not hold allegiance to Evil, but rather to Good—changing any respective Evil-specific paladin abilities to Good allegiance. Oronis refuses to select anyone to be a paladin, but rather, several citizens of Kurn simply have volunteered to protect and defend him; out of a desire to give these people the most help they can get and to hopefully limit the number of casualties, he has in turn gifted them with paladin abilities.
Deep below the ruins of Giustenal lies the city-state known only to a very select few as New Giustenal, ruled by Dregoth. Paladins of Dregoth are exclusively second-generation Dray, and are the high-ranking military commanders and leaders of the Army of Light, as well as bodyguards for their god and king.[/indent]
Allegiances: All paladins have both the moral and ethical philosophical allegiances of their sorcerer-king, as well as their sorcerer-king as an allegiance. The only difference between them is the order of priority which they place them. So, a Paladin of Urik would have Lawful, Evil and Hamanu as allegiances. However one might have Hamanu, Lawful and Evil (Be evil only when it is within the law, and only follow the law when it is Hamanu's will), another might have Evil, Lawful and Hamanu (Follow Hamanu's will only when it is the law, and only follow the Law when it is evil to do so).
Background: No one ever truly chooses to be a paladin—their sorcerer-king chooses them. No one, no matter how diligent, can become a paladin through practice. The sorcerer-king will either decide that the individual is worth or not, and they are each selected from within the ranks individuals all training in the hopes of one day being honored by becoming selected for this position. The bond formed between Paladin and sorcerer-king is powerful, and yet fragile. It requires eternal diligence on the part of the Paladin to ensure this link remains strong. Deviation from their path can result in the link becoming broken, and the paladin losing his power.
All paladins, regardless of background, of a specific sorcerer-king, recognize in each other this connection through their master, and thus have an unspoken amount of respect for each other. Paladins from different sorcerer-kings are almost always at odds with each other, and frequently will find ways of eliminating their opposition one way or another.
Races: Humans are most often selected for Paladins, but any race within a City-State has the possibility of becoming a Paladin. Outside the city-states where the sorcerer-kings rule, Paladins are virtually unheard of.
Other Classes: Paladins have respect for other martial-based classes like fighters and psychic warriors. They frequently work with templars of their city-states, as both are under the employ of the sorcerer-kings. They tend to work fairly well with lawful characters, but are opposed to characters who are good or chaotic. Anyone who their sorcerer-king is not directly opposed to, they generally are not. Charismatic, intimidating, and inspiring fear in people, Paladins almost always demand leadership of a team.
Role: The paladin's chief role in most groups is as a melee combatant, but he contributes other useful support well. His frequently high Charisma opens him up into being a choice for leadership, if the party can deal with a tyrant leading them. Several of his abilities make him a valued member of any party when in combat.
[indent]
The sorcerer-kings' paladins fill a wide variety of roles within a city-state for which they are custom-tailored. While each sorcerer-king may task them to perform any number of desired roles, the three main jobs paladins fill for all three of the remaining sorcerer-kings are that of military commanders, personal bodyguards (as well as bodyguards of high-ranking templars), and a police force that ensures the loyalty of the citizenry and templarate.
Paladins are most comfortable with the role of military commanders, as their abilities provide them with a number of advantages on the battlefield, as well as with directing their troops. As such, all sorcerer-kings' standing armies are lead by paladins, whose loyalty is completely assured.
Each sorcerer-king has a contingent of paladins that serve as their personal bodyguards, protecting their monarchs from any possible attacks. High-ranking templars are also frequently granted one or two paladins as bodyguards as well—which for those templars is both good and bad. Good, for the paladins are more than capable of defending that templar from harm, and bad, for the paladins are unswervingly loyal to the sorcerer-king, and are most likely keeping an eye on the templar that they are protecting, to ensure loyalty.
Finally, paladins are found patrolling the city streets occasionally, checking in on merchants, and hunting down those that oppose the sorcerer-king (like the Veiled Alliance). As a police force, paladins are given the authority of judge, jury, and executioner in all disputes. As such, it is not uncommon for a paladin to perform a public execution of a suspected Veiled Alliance member, to be used as an example and force the Veiled Alliance to leave the city-state—to date, these "examples" have not all together worked as intended.[/indent]
GAME RULE INFORMATION
Note: Some of these rules are taken from The Complete Warrior, while others are taken from The Miniatures Handbook, both by Wizards of the Coast — specifically the rules for making a Paladin a non-spellcasting variant, as well as the Major & Minor Auras, plus Grant Move Action abilities (from the Marshal class). This work is in no way meant to challenge WotC's copyright of that work in any way. These rules use my slight variations to the standard rules, namely allegiances and vitalilty & wound points. Most of the rules changes come from Unearthed Arcana, or d20 Modern.
Paladins have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Charisma enhances a paladin's auras, offensive capabilities, and undead rebuking ability. Strength is important for him or her because of its role in combat. Constitution is valuable for added Vitality, Wounds, and Fortitude saves.
Allegiance: Lawful, Evil, and their sorcerer-king (in any order).
Vitality Die: d10.
Class Skills
The paladin's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), and Sense Motive (Wis). See Chapter 4 of the Player's Handbook for skill descriptions.
[indent]Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.[/indent]
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the paladin.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Paladins are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor (heavy, medium, and light), and with shields (except tower shields).
Aura of Evil (Ex): The power of a paladin's aura of evil (see the detect evil spell) is equal to his paladin level, just as with the aura of a templar.
Smite Opposed (Su): Once per day, a paladin may attempt to smite anyone with an allegiance opposed to her sorcerer-king (like an allegiance to the Veiled Alliance, another sorcerer-king, etc.) with one normal melee attack. She adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack roll and deals 1 extra point of damage per paladin level. For example, a 13th-level paladin armed with a great macahuitl would deal 1d10+13 points of damage, plus any additional bonuses for high Strength, Charisma, or magical/psionic effects that would normally apply. If the paladin accidentally smites a creature that does not have the correct allegiance, the smite has no effect, but the ability is still used up for that day.
Auras (Su): The paladin is granted the supernatural ability to exert an effect on allies in his vicinity. He can learn to produce different effects, or auras, over the course of his career. At 2nd level, the paladin may project one minor aura (and starting at 4th level) one major aura at a time.
Projecting an aura is a swift action. The aura remains in effect until the paladin uses a free action to dismiss it or activates another aura of the same kind (major or minor). A paladin can have an aura active continually, thus, an aura can be in effect at the start of a combat encounter even before the paladin takes his first turn.
Activating an aura involves haranguing, ordering, intimidating, or directing allies. A paladin draws upon the divine link between himself and his monarch, then uses this power to give allies the direction that they can use to do their best by instilling within his allies the same commanding presence of his monarch.
Unless otherwise noted, a paladin's aura affects all allies within 60 feet (including himself) who can hear the paladin. An ally must have an Intelligence score of 3 or higher and be able to understand the paladin's language to gain the bonus. A paladin's aura is dismissed if he is dazed, unconscious, stunned, paralyzed, or otherwise unable to be heard or understood by his allies.
A 2nd level paladin knows one minor aura of his choice. As his paladin level increases, he gains access to new auras, as indicated on Table: The Paladin.
Note that the paladin's Aura of Evil and Aura of Despair abilities are unaffected by the Auras ability—they are independent auras outside the selection of major and minor auras the paladin can receive.
Minor Aura: A minor aura lets allies add the paladin's Charisma bonus (if any) to certain rolls. At 12th level, a paladin gains the ability to use two minor auras, both of which can be activated at the same time. Each aura must be a different, unique aura (i.e.: the paladin cannot activate a second Art of War aura, if he already has Art of War activated). The paladin may activate or exchange one aura or both when he desires as per the above rules.
[indent]Accurate Strike: Bonus on rolls made to confirm critical hits.
Art of War: Bonus on disarm, trip, bull rush, and sunder attempts.
Demand Fortitude: Bonus on Fortitude saves.
Determined Caster: Bonus on rolls to overcome spell resistance.
Determined Manifester: Bonus on rolls to overcome power resistance.
Force of Will: Bonus on Will saves.
Master of Opportunity: Bonus to defense against attacks of opportunity.
Master of Tactics: Bonus on damage rolls when flanking.
Motivate Charisma: Bonus on Charisma checks and Charisma-based skill checks.
Motivate Constitution: Bonus on Constitution checks and Constitution-base skill checks.
Motivate Dexterity: Bonus on Dexterity checks and Dexterity-based skill checks.
Motivate Intelligence: Bonus on Intelligence checks and Intelligence-based skill checks.
Motivate Strength: Bonus on Strength checks and Strength-based skill checks.
Motivate Wisdom: Bonus on Wisdom checks and Wisdom-based skill checks.
Over the Top: Bonus on damage rolls when charging.
Watchful Eye: Bonus on Reflex saves.[/indent]
Major Aura: Beginning at 4th level, a paladin can project a major aura in addition to his minor aura. A major aura lets allies add +1 to certain rolls. This bonus improves by +1 at 9th, 14th, and 19th level.
[indent]Hardy Soldiers: Bonus to Natural Armor.
Motivate Ardor: Bonus on damage rolls.
Motivate Attack: Bonus on melee attack rolls.
Motivate Defense: Bonus to defense.
Motivate Urgency: Allies' base land speed is increased by a number of feet equal to 5 * the amount of bonus the aura provides. For example, the allies of a 9th-level paladin (+2 major aura) add 10 feet to their base land speed.
Resilient Troops: Bonus on all saves.
Steady Hand: Bonus on ranged attack rolls.[/indent]
Divine Grace (Su): At 2nd level, a paladin gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.
Rebuke Undead (Su): When a paladin reaches 4th level, she gains the supernatural ability to rebuke undead. She may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier. She rebukes undead as a templar of three levels lower would.
Divine Health (Ex): At 6th level, a paladin gains immunity to all disease, including supernatural and magical (or psionic) diseases.
Grant Move Action (Ex): Starting at 7th level, a paladin can direct and motivate his allies to act immediately. Once per day, as a standard action, he may grant an extra move action to any or all of his allies within 30 feet (but not himself). Each of the affected allies takes this extra move action immediately, acting in their current initiative order. This extra action does not affect the allies' initiative count; the round continues normally after the paladin's turn is over. (This may mean, for example, that an ally whose initiative count immediately follows the paladin's, may get an extra move action from the paladin, followed directly by a full round worth of actions on the ally's turn.)
At 17th level, a paladin gains the ability to grant an extra move action to his allies twice per day. A character can only take one extra move action per round. (in other words, two paladins can't use this ability on the same ally in the same round.) If an ally chooses not to take the extra move action, it is lost.
Aura of Despair (Su): Beginning at 8th level, a paladin radiates a malign aura that causes enemies within 10 feet of him to take a -2 penalty on all saving throws. This ability functions while the paladin is conscious, but not if she is unconscious or dead.
Special Mount (Sp): Upon reaching 11th level, a paladin gains the service of an unusually intelligent, strong, and loyal steed to serve her in her duties. This mount is usually a warmount crodlu (for a Medium paladin), an Inix (for a Large paladin), or a warmount kank (for a Small paladin).
Divine Might (Su): At 12th level and higher, the paladin can use a standard action to add a +4 bonus to his Strength, Wisdom or Charisma score. This ability may be used once per day, and its effect lasts for 1 minute per class level.
Aligned Weapon (Sp): At 16th level, a paladin gains the ability to channel either unholy or axiomatic power into his weapon (the paladin chooses when activating this ability). The weapon acts as a +5 unholy weapon or +5 axiomatic weapon (+5 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls, extra 2d6 damage against good or chaotic opponents respectively). It also emits a magic circle against good or chaos effect (as the spells, depending on if the weapon is unholy or axiomatic, respectively). If the magic circle ends, the sword creates a new one on your turn as a free action. The aligned weapon effect is automatically canceled 1 round after the weapon leaves your hand. You cannot have more than one aligned weapon at a time.
If this effect is placed on a magic weapon, the powers of the spell supersede any that the weapon normally has, rendering the normal enhancement bonus and powers of the weapon inoperative for the duration of the effect. This is not cumulative with any other spell or power that might modify the weapon in any way. This effect does not work on artifacts.
Note: A masterwork weapon's bonus to attack does not stack with an enhancement bonus to attack.
Code of Conduct: A paladin must have both the moral and ethical philosophical allegiances of his sorcerer-king, as well as his sorcerer-king as an allegiance, and loses all class abilities if he ever willingly commits an act that opposes his monarch.
Additionally, a paladin's code requires that he respect authority figures as long as they have the strength to rule over the weak, act with discipline (not engaging in random slaughter, keeping firm control over those beneath his station, and so forth), help only those who help him maintain or improve his status, and punish those who challenge authority (specifically those who challenge the authority of his sorcerer-king and master).
Table: The Paladin
As for the fluff, I would suggest making the Paladin more of a variant of the Templar rather than something distinct. Say, the Paladin is a Templar focused almost exclusively on combat, but a Templar nonetheless; make the class an extended Templar knight of sorts. This way, the creation of an entirely new type of servant of the SKs would not be necessary.
I make this suggestion under the inspiration of Lynn Abbey's novels. According to her, Urik's templarate is partitioned in two bureaus: the civil bureau and the war bureau. The war bureau is very specialized in combat (though they also use spells) and seems to provide Urik with elite troops, middle rank officers and army generals. The use of a core class, rather than a PrC, is further justified by the fact that war bureau templars are trained as such straight from childhood (IIRC).
I'm sure that other city-states have combat oriented Templars as well, so Paladin Templars would exist in all of them.
EDIT: Just found out this post of yours in another thread:
First off, I don't like the idea of paladins being spellcasters, plain and simple. Second, I wanted them to have some bonuses received from their monarchs, while focusing more on their military strengths -- the Marshall class has several abilities I liked, and I blended them into the class as well. The results are a twisted, disturbing group of people that fill a variety unique jobs and positions within a city-state, and are absolutely devoited and loyal to their monarchs. Menacing, powerful, aggressive, dedicated, focused, and downright scary. These are people that actually are separated and apart from the templarate order, but work side-by-side with the templars to handle various military and police functions throughout the city-state, including monitoring and policing the templars themselves.
Again, what's your rationale behind this, particularly the non-spellcasting thing?
No spells? I very much appreciate the aura system, but the absence spellcasting somewhat estranges the Athasian Paladin from the PHB version and the DS Templar class. What's your rationale behind this?
I like to keep my spellcasting classes limited in Dark Sun. I have Clerics, Templars, and Druids for divine spellcasting classes (my Rangers and Paladins do not cast spells), I have Wizards and Sorcerers for my arcane spellcasting classes (the DS3 Bard does not cast spells). Magic is a limited and rare commodity, with specific sources fueling it -- plant life-energy for the Arcane, and divine energy either given or siphoned/stolen from the Elemental planes for the Divine. I just didn't want more of those types of classes. I like to bolster and push the number of different psionic manifesting classes instead, and so I incorperated the Erudite into the mix for my campaigns.
I just didn't see the spellcasting components as working for my vision of the Paladin as I was writing it all out. I'd rather have all my "hybrid" base classes lose their spellcasting ability, and focus more on other things to compensate.
As for the fluff, I would suggest making the Paladin more of a variant of the Templar rather than something distinct. Say, the Paladin is a Templar focused almost exclusively on combat, but a Templar nonetheless; make the class an extended Templar knight of sorts. This way, the creation of an entirely new type of servant of the SKs would not be necessary.
But see, then there wouldn't have been a point to me making this write-up in the first place then. I know Paladins aren't for everyone. I wanted a Paladin that just seemed... weird and different, rich in Dark Sun flavor, and blended with a set of mechanics that makes it stand out as different. Bards are different, Rangers were different until 3.5e was released then they were swapped out with the PHB version by Athas.org, which I didn't care for, so I keep more of the old, non-spellcasting Ranger idea.
I make this suggestion under the inspiration of Lynn Abbey's novels. According to her, Urik's templarate is partitioned in two bureaus: the civil bureau and the war bureau. The war bureau seem to be very specialized in combat (though they also use spells), and apparently provides Urik with elite troops, middle rank officers and army generals. The use of a core class, rather than a PrC, is further justified by the fact that war bureau templars are trained as such straight from childhood (IIRC).
I still have Urik with a war bureau and a civil bureau for the templars. The Paladins are separate from that.
I'm sure that other city-states have combat oriented Templars as well, so Paladin Templars would exist in all of them.
I just don't like the idea of making the Paladins into a variant Templar. But if that's what you want, I'd be curious to see what you do with it.
this sounds like it'd work a bit better as a PRC but is a cool idea...
There's already a templar knight PrC in Appendix I. If this were made into a PrC it could be one that only someone who's taken at least on level of the templar knight PrC could take.
This would be difficult though, because Xlorep loves his paladin in the first place, so may not be inclined to want to craft a PrC he won't use anyway, and also because it heavily makes use of non-OGC stuff as well as alternate-rules not currently used by athas.org material.
Oink.
I like to keep my spellcasting classes limited in Dark Sun.
Makes sense and I mostly agree, though I feel that the Paladin could reasonable be made an exception without hurting that concept too much.
I just didn't see the spellcasting components as working for my vision of the Paladin as I was writing it all out.
Yes, I realize that now. My primary problem with the lack of spellcasting is that it departs a lot from what the Templar class is supposed to be. But that’s exactly what you want.
But see, then there wouldn't have been a point to me making this write-up in the first place then.
Well, I find that a Templar variant, Paladin or not, is an entirely valid valid idea (though certainly not mandatory). The Gladiator, after all, is a variant of the Fighter that represents neither a large nor diverse portion of Athas’ population. Aside from keeping true to the original boxed set’s rules, there’s really only one reason for the Gladiator to be a core class: it’s fun!
Since you pretty much have made the Paladin a Templar variant, simply making it official seems to me like a tiny leap that would help avoid a lot of headache. Namely, the addition of an entirely new type of agent of the SKs.
I know Paladins aren't for everyone. I wanted a Paladin that just seemed... weird and different, rich in Dark Sun flavor, and blended with a set of mechanics that makes it stand out as different.
I see. Well, the SKs do possess at least two types of agents that are almost templars but not quite: court wizards and psionicists (at least in Urik). A third type wouldn’t be completely far-fetched.
I just don't like the idea of making the Paladins into a variant Templar. But if that's what you want, I'd be curious to see what you do with it.
Not really. I was just looking for ways of meshing your Paladin with DS’s stablished flavor more smoothly. Still, it might be interesting to give it a try.
Makes sense and I mostly agree, though I feel that the Paladin could reasonable be made an exception without hurting that concept too much.
Well, like I said, I like to eliminate the spellcasting elements from the typical "hybrid" classes: Bard, Ranger, and Paladin.
Yes, I realize that now. My primary problem with the lack of spellcasting is that it departs a lot from what the Templar class is supposed to be. But that’s exactly what you want.
Well, I envision them filling spots that templars really don't fill. Even in the novels, there were bodyguards for high templars, and the like. I was trying to place them in a position to explain how they weren't really discussed or mentioned before.
Well, I find that a Templar variant, Paladin or not, is an entirely valid valid idea (though certainly not mandatory). The Gladiator, after all, is a variant of the Fighter that represents neither a large nor diverse portion of Athas’ population. Aside from keeping true to the original boxed set’s rules, there’s really only one reason for the Gladiator to be a core class: it’s fun!
Since you pretty much have made the Paladin a Templar variant, simply making it official seems to me like a tiny leap that would help avoid a lot of headache. Namely, the addition of an entirely new type of agent of the SKs.
I can see where you are going, but I see this more as an elevated fighter granted special powers from his or her monarch, rather than a variant templar.
I see. Well, the SKs do possess at least two types of agents that are almost templars but not quite: court wizards and psionicists (at least in Urik). A third type wouldn’t be completely far-fetched.
Good point.
Not really. I was just looking for ways of meshing your Paladin with DS’s stablished flavor more smoothly. Still, it might be interesting to give it a try.
Well, I can see what you are wanting, but my idea was that they'd be in the shadows, not talked about much. They are an elite military part of the government, working side-by-side with the templars, but at the same time, they hold a completely different position, and in some ways are higher in rank than templars (while other ways are lower rank). I didn't want them being linked to the templars themselves, because I envision them as political officers/secret police, and being a completely independant group from the templars that receive their orders directly from their monarch (or other higher-ranking paladins) and not from the templar orders.
One thing missing: Oronis would also probably have "paladins," whose alignment would necessitate LG. As well as a bunch of stealth/bluff skills. Maybe a rogue with high BAB and no sneak attack-type thing...
I intentionally excluded Oronis, Daskinor, and Dregoth from my lineup. Yes, Oronis would have a different alignment for his paladins. So would Daskinor, and with Dregoth included, all three of those are really quite different when it comes to their paladins (Daskinor's would necessitate CE, for instance). However, the abilities would be adapted (of course) to fit the allegiance (alignment) of the Sorcerer-King. This write-up is based around my "limited information model" I present to my players -- information that would not necessarily be known or discovered by your average Athasian, I take out of the materials I give my players. Oronis, Daskinor, and Dregoth are most definitely not in the common knowledge of an average Athasian. So any references to them I keep tucked away (except for vague references to a "Dregoth the Savior" in Raam).
Also -- note: I see Oronis as reluctant to making paladins. The paladins are not part of his spy network, but people who want to protect and defend Oronis -- they were already volunteering for the positions of personal bodyguard to the avangion, Oronis simply makes them paladins to give them more of a chance of survival, however of the different SK's, Oronis has the fewest number of paladins.
other then that not bad, but i dont like it myself.
basically u should not have bothered to call the "Paladin's", they r not that, and any darksun creation stemming from that class should have it's own name, not just a copy.
other then that not bad, but i dont like it myself.
I intentionally called them "Paladin", because I like the irony involved with showing what could be the Athasian equivalent. I mean, the Athasian "Bard" has just as much a right to be called a "Bard" as this class has to be called a "Paladin". I was going for something that is significantly deviated from the steriotypical class. My version of Rangers (which is a lot closer to "Scout") also is a bit different, as I wanted to ensure, like I said before, that none of my versions of the "hybrid" classes have spellcasting capabilities.
I like the name Paladin for these, and my players think it is a twisted, perverted use of the word, but fits for the setting quite well.
I intentionally called them "Paladin", because I like the irony involved with showing what could be the Athasian equivalent. I mean, the Athasian "Bard" has just as much a right to be called a "Bard" as this class has to be called a "Paladin". I was going for something that is significantly deviated from the steriotypical class. My version of Rangers (which is a lot closer to "Scout") also is a bit different, as I wanted to ensure, like I said before, that none of my versions of the "hybrid" classes have spellcasting capabilities.
I like the name Paladin for these, and my players think it is a twisted, perverted use of the word, but fits for the setting quite well.
See, that's the first argument for the paladin that's appealed to me. DS bards, halflings, and elves are dark spoofs of the conventional D&D versions, and DS can always use more dark parody.
See, that's the first argument for the paladin that's appealed to me. DS bards, halflings, and elves are dark spoofs of the conventional D&D versions, and DS can always use more dark parody.
Basically my view about it as well.
The word Savak is Eldaarish for “unknown,” “unidentified”,” or “I don’t know.” Wanting the existence of his secret police to remain secret, Daskinor never gave the the organization a name, and as an increasing number of state acts were carried out by an unidentified order, the word Savak itself came to refer to the secret police. As a general policy, when someone is grabbed and taken away quietly by well-organized and unidentified assailants, Eldaarish assume that the assalilants belong to the Savak Order, and do not ask questions. They are usually right.
[INDENT]Commoners speak of “the justice system.” As agents of the state, you must know better. “Justice is not a “system.” Justice is a coincidence that the weak-minded mistake for evidence that the universe does not hate them. [Pause for laughter] “[/INDENT]
- Instructor’s notes for “Introduction to Criminal Justice,” a lecture series for favored Savak operatives that wish to become officers.
[INDENT]“Innocence is no excuse for the law. Those who fail to prevent family members from committing crimes against the state, are unworthy of citizenship, and shall be enslaved. Liberty requires constant vigilance.” [/INDENT]
- Udmech Uhrdeelto, High Templar of Savak
more fun dark stuff:
SAVAK PARTIES ENCOUNTERED:
Savak parties often involve higher level specialists, but the ranking templar almost always leads the party. Psionic characters are especially barred from leadership, since officially they do not exist, but Savak templars are pragmatic and usually defer to the expertise of these specialists.
Retirement Party: A sleeper agent often loses the desire to return to Eldaarich entirely, and some may move to a different city and try to start a normal life. This happens alarmingly often with Eldaarish double templars. Savak often sends “retirement parties” to permanently silence agents who fail to report or to return to Eldaarich for debriefing. (Unlike Eldaarich’s Savak, Kurn’s School of Spies does not yet have an official term for a group assigned to extinguish rogue spies. Unfortunately, the idea is not foreign to them). A Retirement Party includes a junior templar, two brutes, a poison master, a Soulknife, a Takrits Defiler, and a Master Executioner. The master executioner is always one that the victim had seen perform. If the target is willing to be bound and brought home alive with the party, that is usually an option, otherwise the group take care to allow the Master Executioner to strike the killing bow, preserving the target’s head for later interrogation.
Anniversary Party: When a person agrees to do any service for Savak, Savak believes this is a lifetime commitment. Informants will typically receive a visit once per year from a very intimidating group of people who review the informant’s performance, make new assignments, and remind the informant of everything that is at stake should the informant double or refuse to cooperate. An Anniversary Party includes two senior templars, four thugs, and a telepath.
Dinner Party: Less formal and more common than Aniversary Parties, a Dinner Party simply visits and debriefs an informant or someone who Savak agents wish to turn into an informant. The party often visits the informant’s residence (often rendering other inhabitants unconscious or threatening them should that become useful to obtain cooperation), but might also corner them in a den. Dinner parties need to be flexible in their approach, since it’s never clear at the onset what combination of drugs, magic, psionics, torture or reward will prove most effective. A Dinner Party includes a junior templar, a poison master, two brutes, a telepath, and an illusionist.
Greeting Party: When a person and a place appear on the Wall of Lists (see artifacts), Savak dispatches an early response team to apprehend the suspects or at least to pin them down until help can arrive. A Greeting Party includes …
Housecleaning Party: When Savak leaders need someone killed or removed without a trace, but make discretion (rather than life capture) the highest priority, they send a Housecleaning Party. A Housecleaning Party includes …
Sleepover Party: When highest priority is on taking the person alive:
A Sleepover Party includes …
(Don't mean to 'jack your thread; just wanted to illustrate for others what we're talking about with Athas' "dark twisted, perverted use of words.")
if u would have cited 2nd or 1st edition text's i would not have mind , but this is plain silly.
"i say this is good and logical because i wrote the flavor to support my thoughts and created the flavor in my mind", thats how i see u word yourself and your idea's..
and this is how i see many of the creations within the creations athas.org has made (not saying they are good or bad, just the way u guys go about claiming right of rule and idea.).
my 7 cent's
my 50 cent's
Burningspear, did you honestly think I was using my own examples for authority or to persuade?
We've already discussed the published examples of the Athasian halfling, the Athasian Elf, and the Athasian Bard as examples of how Dark Sun parodies conventional D&D. If those don't persuade you that Dark Sun parodies conventional D&D then nothing I say will. I just happened to be working on the Savak groups this week, and thought that some folks might enjoy the illustration.I used the Savak parties to illustrate what "dark parody" means. I am just trying to promote a little reading comprehension -- if you don't mind, Burningspear.
:D
so Elonarc, stay silent or contribute to the discussion, dont belittle me with puny reactions plz.
and to TheBrax, i missed those discussions, so i cannot reply on that, but the way i reacted is the way i feel in general about how darksun here is handled towards the general public.
(no pun regarded in any way to the contributions the people of athas.org are trying to make, but using said authority to make a point clear is not a good way of making a point at all, in regards to saying what they create is legal and anything else contributed by anybody else not in the "bureau" is open to discussion...)
TheBrax, i missed those discussions, so i cannot reply on that
How in Ral's name did you "miss those discussions," BS?? It's the posts immediately the one that you are ignorantly complaining about. Start with the one that I was *responding* to.
Originally Posted by TheBrax
See, that's the first argument for the paladin that's appealed to me. DS bards, halflings, and elves are dark spoofs of the conventional D&D versions, and DS can always use more dark parody.
Basically my view about it as well.
Are you still missing it?
I say ignorantly because when you use words like "authority," you prove that you don't even grasp what I said.
using said authority to make a point clear is not a good way of making a point at all
IF I'd cited my current work as "authority," that would have been wrong. But I did no such thing. You'd know that if you'd hadn't been so intent to distort what I said to support your pet gripes.
BS, do you or do you not grasp the difference between citing authority in order to persuade someone, and using an example to help someone understand what you mean?
so basically u support your words by the things u created, not a very good way of building up a case in a discussion.
if u would have cited 2nd or 1st edition text's i would not have mind , but this is plain silly.
"i say this is good and logical because i wrote the flavor to support my thoughts and created the flavor in my mind", thats how i see u word yourself and your idea's..
and this is how i see many of the creations within the creations athas.org has made (not saying they are good or bad, just the way u guys go about claiming right of rule and idea.).
This Paladin class I made, and put in this thread, is in no way official, or has anything whatsoever to do with my connection to Athas.org, and everything to do with something I made for my own personal campaigns, and had been prodded by a few people here to make available (it was on my website before I transitioned to a new site format).
And Brax is just doing what is good for conversation -- providing examples, ideas of the meaning of the phrase "dark parody". Neither Brax nor myself have cited authority (other than me, claiming to have pieced together the idea for the Paladin, and have strived to make it fit into Athasian lore, even though there is absolutely no reference to them whatsoever in any materials period, so therefore it is impossible for me to actually quote or cite 1st or 2nd ed. materials about Paladins, as I have already stated.
If you don't like the idea, that's cool. Like I said, it isn't for everybody. My players like it, as like me, they tend to favor having a good variety of options for base classes that work for a particular setting, which as I've stated before, I think the Paladin I devised does work. Which is why I use it, and why I showed it here. Brax was simply agreeing with the basis I made my paladin from, as he puts it, "dark parody", like the Bard, Elf, Halfling, etc. that already exists in Dark Sun.
Using proper punctuations and such is not needed to actually get a point across, it is silly that u have to point my spelling out without making a note on what i was trying to say,
so Elonarc, stay silent or contribute to the discussion, dont belittle me with puny reactions plz.
Spelling and punctuation may not be strictly needed to get a point across, but they are needed to get people to take you seriously. If you cannot be bothered to spend 30 seconds to ensure that your note is readable and coherent, then you should expect that others will, likewise, be unwilling to spend the time deciphering it.
It's a matter of respect.
The Athasian Paladin
There is no rule changes, but I have added some details about paladins for sorcerer-kings that I hadn't originally included in the above write-up -- things like noting the SK's that were killed in the events of the Prism Pentad, and the "hidden" sorcerer-kings -- Dregoth, Daskinor, and Oronis. I have also added this to the above write-up, keeping the two in sync.