Why SORCERER Monarchs?



Oct 01, 2006 22:08:19

No, I haven't fallen off the face of the world.

So, I had this dream the other night, I don't recall the details now, but this leapt out at me screaming as the rest of it thundered into forgotten abysses of the wakign mind: "Make templars sorcerers." It was the voice of God. Or maybe just a really good idea.

Anyways, that's what it said. And I sat up wide eyed, shut off my alarm, and thought "That's a GREAT idea!"

See, I've never really been comfortable with the idea that templars lose their powers if their Monarch dies, nor the whole "LOOK! ANOTHER type of priest-class!" craziness. I've always thought rogue templars, or traitors fleeing to other city-states to offer their services, would be a cool idea.

I thought: they're like evil Jedi! And that's just cool.

And I don't mean like Sith, I mean like Jedi, but twisted: a force of supernaturally-empowered philosopher-warriors dedicated to meeting out justice and enforcing the rule of law in the city-states and across the Tablelands. In this case, however, the order happens to be corrupt, brutal, and absorbed in constant internal power struggles.

Making them sorcerers would be very cool, and make the whole sorcerer-monarch thing make sense (beyond just linguistic variability in names for arcane casters). They become, literally, the kings (and queens) of sorcerers.

I imagine the Sorcerer Kings and their templars go around searching out sorcerously-gifted children, taking them from their families to raise, train, and indoctrinate. Some Sorcerer-Kings or -Queens even breed their own.

I'm thinking the ability to wield sorcery has some prices attached, some kind of ritual behavior or taboos the sorcerers have to learn or adopt in order to be able to use their powers. Maybe some weird things like eating certain poisonous insects, or cutting others and blooding them in some ritual, or sitting on hot rocks until their skin blisters, only eating meat, or other crazy stuff like that.

Regardless, the templarate helps young sorcerers learn the taboos, how to create focuses (or maybe only the Sorcerer-Kings know the secret of creating sorcerous foci), and various occult techniques that allow them to harness and manipulate their powers. The training is brutal, occasionally lethal, and saturated with indoctrination and propoganda.

Maybe sorcerers even require others of their own kind in order to function effectively, not in that they have to work in groups, but they have to be around their own kind, led by their own kind, blessed by their own kind, or the powers don't manifest, or just fade away, and so they seek out their own company and form these cabals under the instruction of masters and lords instinctually.

So that's what I've got: Sorcerer-Kings are the lords of and the most powerful of all the sorcerers on Athas, and the sorcerers use their powers with the blessing of the god-like rulers of the city-states.


Oct 03, 2006 1:53:37
hmm, you're probably gonna get yelled at for that one. :P It's an interesting idea for sure, but kinda ruins the whole (SK's rippoff the planes) thing. It would however, be cool to introduce a special offshoot of tempars who are sorcerors and not normal priest style templars... would they be defilers or preservers?? hard question to answer.. :P

but yeah, interesting idea.

actually, I've always liked the idea of certain SK's, (Hamanu in particular) being Sorcerors... to me, it would explain why they don't have tons and tons of spells available to them... (I know it is rather time consuming to run a city, war with your neighbors, and further your metamorphosis, but where are the new unique spells?) It seems like most the time they come up with new epic level magic before the lower stuff.. if that's the case... it would make sense, since it might be easier to gain a new epic level spell by gaining levels over time (and not use feats on gaining 1 or 2 new lower level spells). And it would make sense why they don't have as much spellpower as people like Elminster and whatnot.. they have a lot of big bang stuff, but rarely much in the way of lesser spells.. at least, not like I'd imagine centuries old spellcasters would have..

sorry, don't mean to hijak the thread, especially on the first post

question... what's your take on sorcerors in general?? a lot of people don't like them.. I see ups and downs, some of which were resolved in 3.5..

what's your take on them??


Oct 03, 2006 13:26:20
hmm, you're probably gonna get yelled at for that one. :P

Yes, I'm sure the Defenders of the Holy Canon :D will have fits over the suggestion because it alters a number of things about the setting and its accepted history. But, eh. Not my problem.

question... what's your take on sorcerors in general??

I've never had a problem with them. Actually, I always considered them better used as psionicists than psioncists and their associated rules, and if I had the chance to run a 3E DarkSun game, that's what I would have done.

The above "Sorcerer-Kings rule sorcerers" idea mucks with that a little bit, but tiny tweaks could be made to differentiate the two into seperate classes (much as with Cleric and Druid).


Oct 03, 2006 14:49:13
Yes, I'm sure the Defenders of the Holy Canon :D will have fits over the suggestion because it alters a number of things about the setting and its accepted history. But, eh. Not my problem.

When your cannon is as holy as mine, it don't need no defending...


Oct 03, 2006 16:48:19
When your cannon is as holy as mine, it don't need no defending...

Some Clerics in my group would like holy cannons...


Oct 03, 2006 16:58:08
Some Clerics in my group would like holy cannons...

Especially the kind that shoot holy water. Bless me, baby, for I have siiiiiiinned...


Oct 03, 2006 20:32:00


Oct 04, 2006 21:30:03
Well, you could say that they siphon the energy to give their devoted followers magic. Just an idea...


Oct 04, 2006 22:01:49
hmmm.... I would suggest using the battle sorcerer variant from unearthed arcana vs just the normal sorcerer if you are looking at this.

at least for templars.

This gives them better BAB, a martial weapon, better HD, ability to use light armor and not spell failure chance in it.... all for lowering the spellcasting.... which fits with how templars were in the original box set.

on the defiler/preserver status of them.... make them only able to drain from a patron (a single given creature.)... this gives why they can only gain power from the most parts from a single powerful creature.... but opens up the idea that they could even drain from other epic characters or even things like drake that they bonded with..... though most creatures would not have the life store of energy to survive having multiple templars linked ot them.

just a couple ideas.

personally I like the idea of the Sorcerer Monarchs being actual sorcerers too... pretty much make all Champions of Rajaat into sorcerers, as his special troops to hunt the races and the preservers.... it actually makes a great way to differentiate between normal presevers/defilers and Champions. (I actually had in one of my write ups of Avangions and Dragons that their levels in the wizard class were switched to Sorcerer on conversion.) And this would mean that those with the talent to become Sorcerers in Athas, cannot actually gain the ability to cast without someoen training them.... and as the training is different than normal spellcasting the only ones that were learning their potential were those trained as templars or those whose power was unlocked through metamorphosis.


Oct 13, 2006 14:38:45
just a couple ideas.

Those are all great ideas, Seker. Thanks!


Oct 13, 2006 18:03:48
Those are all great ideas, Seker. Thanks!

As most people on here have found, I normally can build systems around most ideas pretty quick... and I can normally build balanced systems for an idea.

And I am willing to do that even on ideas I may not agree with myself. Heck if it were not for me working on my actual writing and my music, I would be alot more prevalent on the boards.