Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 thebrax Oct 23, 2006 11:58:26	We've developed Kurn as a literate society, allowing reading and writing openly. Even in the merchant district of "old Kurn," PCs will see signs written in the pict writing that Kurnans and Eldaarish use. This raises the possibility of documents for sale. What maps, books, etc., do you think that players should simply be able to buy? Seems obvious that detailed accurate information of the Green Age or Blue Age should obviously not be something you can just buy in the marketplace. I like the idea of the Wanderer's Journal being an actual real document in the game. Something that's been copied and recopied, perhaps with transcription errors. And maybe a map that he refers to, although not the full map that came with the first box set, and certainly not the map that came with the 2nd box set. Or the Wanderer's Chronicle, since that gives away DM information in neutral objective terms, while the WJ reports rumors. Anyway, what sorts of documents do you think it would be reasonable/believeable to have for sale, what sort of price would you provide, benefit, etc.? E.g. would having the wanderer's Map give a +2 to Knowledge (geography) checks, or a +1 to a roll against getting lost? The wanderer's Journal might give you a +1 check to any knowledge (local) checks involving the Tablelands. My idea would be that you'd have to have the book as a reference; you couldn't just say well I read it to get the bonus, since reading and learning would be reflected in your skills.
#2 kalthandrix Oct 23, 2006 12:16:49	In the Tribe of One books - he has a copy of the Wanderer's Journal IIRC - so I do not see a reason that it could not be available for sale in the north. I would say that there would be all types of books and such for sale - everything from cut and dry facts of other places, but also recent history, fiction, manuals on the Unseen Way written by masters of the Way, ect...
#3 thebrax Oct 23, 2006 12:38:50	Makes sense. Probably several conflicting books on psionics purporting to have been written by Tarandas. I'm trying to come up with ideas that one could actually show to players, like the WJ. The "B'slavsek Codex," which would be the flavor portion of the supplement "Slave Tribes" -- the portion written by the old dwarven slave. The Lunar Amanac -- a scroll containing charts that allow the reader to predict when Ral and Guthay will be full. (I've actually completed the chart -- could actually be a player handout.) Perhaps "Traveler's Guide" sheets could actually be documents. Because of the popularity of the Wanderer's Guide, these would probably be sold (falsely) as "Wanderer's Guide" scrolls, since that's how things worked back in the days before copyright. Any suggestions on pricing for these documents?
#4 dirk00001 Oct 23, 2006 13:51:42	I've got a huge Excel spreadsheet I use to randomly generate books; it was originally designed for the 2e basic box set and I'm not quite sure how much I revised it when the revised box set came out, so it may be missing some locations and such, etc. Anyway, PM me if you want it - it doesn't list actual book names, just a way to determine contents (as the DM I'd make up the names as PCs rolled the contents), and the system is set up akin to how magic items work, giving skill bonuses...so the cost of the item is based, more or less, on magic item creation rules and probably not indicitive of books that don't provide bonuses. The document was done based on the idea that a book was worth a fortune, since there aren't many in the Tablelands and all.
#5 thebrax Oct 23, 2006 17:03:44	I PMed you, and would love to see your table. Another book: Kirtzek's fables, a compilation of short stories (just use the ones in Dragon Kings if the PC asks about them). Other useful documents could include: charts that help you use the stars, visible landmarks, etc. to help get your bearings. Instead of a map, you might get a paper diagram telling you, when you reach destination b, place this chart on the ground with Arrow A pointing to landmark B, and Arrow C pointing at Landmark D, then go in the direction of arrow E. A complete translation dictionary would probably be unrealistic, but a simple phrase guidebook might give you a chance to communicate basic ideas in a strange language, assuming you know how to read. A similar type of book for a dead language might give you a hefty bonus for decrypting ancient documents. I think you're on the right track for making the price analogous to how much a magic item would cost to convey the same benefit. Good thinking. Given the timeline that China started using a printing press, and the fact that the Eldaarish use that reverse branded finger imprint, I thought of actually giving them primitive printing technology, but I don't think we want to deal with the ramifications of cheap books on Athas. What do the rest of you think?
#6 zombiegleemax Oct 23, 2006 17:05:44	In the Tribe of One books - he has a copy of the Wanderer's Journal IIRC - so I do not see a reason that it could not be available for sale in the north. Yeah, it was a banned book (Like all of them) specifically for being considered anti-Defiler. The Veiled Alliance frequently made and passed copies around.
#7 thebrax Oct 23, 2006 17:20:52	What sort of bonus would come from using a mundane document? A circumstance bonus?
#8 elonarc Oct 24, 2006 2:02:37	Probably. It is the bonus one also gets for certain items, like healer's kit.
#9 brun01 Oct 24, 2006 7:33:29	According to the DMG, having a map gives you a +4 bonus on Survival checks to avoid getting lost for terrains where it would make a difference (moors, hills, mountains, places with reasonable amount of geographic features). Sandstorm says you get a +2 on waste terrains with a map.
#10 zombiegleemax Oct 31, 2006 19:47:21	The Green Age before the time of Magic was (in my view at least) a learned age. Also Rajaat's Age of magic still had lots of people writing stuff down. If I was to throw in books in my Athasian campaign, I would throw in copies of 'histories' that may or may not be true, and may or may not be translations of actual Green Ages tomes. I think Dwarvish books would be the most numerous, then Elvish and Human. But I would have Gnomish books creeping out of the Obsidian Plane penned by the undead. I would have Trolls or Orcs be quite literate in the days before the Age of Magic and throw in a few modern translations of their histories as well. Sample titles (once translated) could be: The Victories of the Chieftain An Elvish green age war stories book that would be similar in character to the myths of Corannu. The 2341st Year of the Wheat Harvest of the Southern Tablelands. A late Green Age dwarvish book full of pollination and crop rotation advice to combat the growing deserts. Save vs. Spells or fall asleep trying to read it. :P McBuck's Luck and Cluck's Duck A book written within the last 50 years by an undead Gnome in the Obsidain planes. It is a attempt at slap-stick comedy involving two brothers and their pet duck, but reads more like a Friday the 13th sequel. However the whole book does rhyme. An excerpt: McBuck didn't like the duck, because he was always eating toes. The people couldn't walk and would topple too and frow. Cluck thought it was funny to be looking at bloody stumps. He thought feet looked so much better without bumps. The Armies of The Orc Plague A translation of a late green age translation of a small Orc book from just before Alabach-Re's final victory. In it are the testimonials of Orcs that were in underground terrorist cells trying to disrupt the supply chains that kept the main army fed. Well can't think of anything more.
#11 Pennarin Oct 31, 2006 20:04:09	I'd give a circumstance bonus to Knowledge (local) for all the areas that have an entry in the Wanderer's Journal and his Chronicles. Probably between +2 and +4. No Survival bonus though, unless your copy includes a detailed map, which itself would cause the book's price to skyrocket.