http://www.amazon.com/Expedition-Castle-Greyhawk-Adventure-Supplement/dp/0786943580/sr=1-1/qid=1164211183/ref=sr_1_1/103-9386658-6477435?ie=UTF8&s=books
I was just getting ready to run the regular version and noticed how much work it needed ... and then I saw this post!!! to bad it is released so late. it sholud be put out for christmas!!! I would buy like 5 for friends! o well now I just buy 1 me.
I'll be very interested to see how Erik, James, and Jason integrated the Greyhawk Ruins materials with all of the research that has gone into the Castle
Given the rather, IMO, shoddy and uninspired treatment of canon from "the boys" over the last year or two in the magazines, I'm not holding any great hope for this to contain any impressive new canon. More likely than not, it'll be pretty generic with a couple GH pronouns dropped in so as to pretend it's somehow authentic GH, but with their previously mentioned track record, glaring errors and omissions are highly probable as well.
As for me?
I'm intrigued by Erik's teaser about an RJK authored project on "essentially the same dungeon". While Rob and I probably won't ever be the best of buddies, I give credit where it's due, and unlike Paizo/WotC and Troll Lord, Rob has stood by his loyalty to seeing the spirit of GH preserved. Granted, it's a nostalgic look at GH, but I'd rather have nostalgic authenticity than candy coated generic any day. Bring it on Rob, show the "generi-hawk" crowd how it's done!
So we really need that? - I think I'll stick to the WotC book in this particular case.
;)Anyone already *Castle Blackmoor*, btw?
Win/win
Sorry Troll Lords too little too late.
What happened with them, anyway?
I am cautious as to this latest addition. To expect Greyhawk plotlines which actually tie in with the setting may be asking too much, but the quality of this product needs some real sharpening. Sure the team are capable of delivering, and have done good work in Dungeon, but not necessarily to my taste.
I look forward to being pleasantly surprised....
I am cautious as to this latest addition. To expect Greyhawk plotlines which actually tie in with the setting may be asking too much, but the quality of this product needs some real sharpening. Sure the team are capable of delivering, and have done good work in Dungeon, but not necessarily to my taste.
I look forward to being pleasantly surprised....
While you'll have to wait to see the final product to determine how pleasant the surprise is, I can say this: asking for Greyhawk plotlines that tie in to the setting is certainly not asking too much.
For example isle of the Ape / Dungeonland et al never received a mention IIRC.
According to the authors:
In any event, the tunnel to the Isle of the Ape was once the hallway at P826. Because the module is no longer in stock at TSR, we couldn't refer to it directly. During play in the ruins, we decided that the tunnel was closed and thus acted like a time tunnel. We had similar restrictions concerning Beyond the Magic Mirror and Dungeonland. However, we kept these portals open. The entrance to Beyond the Magic Mirror is at Z632. The entrance to Dungeonland is at P833. Of course the entrance to Zagig's demi-plane (as well as the other ring of five members) is also on this level (we have now made it Ravenloft), but it is at P824.
@ James Jacobs: any teasers on the plotlines?
According to the authors:
Looking back at the module I can now see the connection - thanks. It sure has been a long time since I read it, and must have forgotten the inferrence.
I am curious as to what source this author quote was from, and whether it contained any other interesting information. Also does anyone know what connections Mobley and Brown had (if any) with the original Castle Greyhawk campaign - were they players, and was their work based to any degree on the EGG concept?
While you'll have to wait to see the final product to determine how pleasant the surprise is, I can say this: asking for Greyhawk plotlines that tie in to the setting is certainly not asking too much.
Well I am happy to join the growing list of Hawkers looking forward to this product. If this is going to take forward some of the old Greyhawk lore (trapped demi-god anyone?) then it could prove to be a gem....
Looking back at the module I can now see the connection - thanks. It sure has been a long time since I read it, and must have forgotten the inferrence.
I am curious as to what source this author quote was from, and whether it contained any other interesting information. Also does anyone know what connections Mobley and Brown had (if any) with the original Castle Greyhawk campaign - were they players, and was their work based to any degree on the EGG concept?
I had posted the letter awhile ago, but with search disabled I can't find it (and google isn't helping). IIRC, someone had written to the authors of Greyhawk Ruins, and Mobley and/or Brown replied, which is what the quotation is from---an excerpt from their reply (which the letter-writer had posted to Greytalk some years ago).
--Erik Mona
Originally Posted by The Greytalk Archive
Subject: Greyhawk Ruins (long)
Author: Joseph Bloch (Josephuscybernex.net)
Date: 11/21/1996 12:00:00
Here is the text of a letter I received from Blake Mobley and Timothy Brown (designers of the Greyhawk Ruins module) dated September 1990. [snip]
As you probably know, the original Castle Greyhawk was reported to have over 200 levels in it. It was also constantly changing due to cave-ins and magical factors. Therefore, some of the items you mention have changed location, are not now discernable, or have been sealed off in a section of the dungeon which we did not detail.
The golden man (who was originally a wandering monster illusion in Gary's campaign) was not placed specifically in the dungeon, we decided that the illusion had ceased to exist at this point. If you wish to keep it, have the diamond golem in Z402 control it. If I remember correctly, the Great Enigma was a giant 3D head which would turn those who messed with it into warts upon its face. I do know that in Gary's castle, it was on an extremely deep level, and we decided not to include it. However, if you wish to use it, I would place it in room P715 and incorporate it into the gargoyle chair there. Of course the real enigma or puzzle about Greyhawk Ruins is that the obelisk at P813 is not the great secret, but rather the Stone in P715. Finally, the great Central Shaft has now been disrupted. It was once a great shaft which connected all of the open spiral stairways from P300 to P800 together. However, this shaft is now fragmented and will not be apparent to anyone.
In Isle of the Ape, Tenser speaks of descending the shaft and finding natural caverns, however, now it has been partially worked into smooth areas. In any event, the tunnel to the Isle of the Ape was once the hallway at P826. Because the module is no longer in stock at TSR, we couldn't refer to it directly. During play in the ruins, we decided that the tunnel was closed and thus acted like a time tunnel. We had similar restrictions concerning Beyond the Magic Mirror and Dungeonland. However, we kept these portals open. The entrance to Beyond the Magic Mirror is at Z632. The entrance to Dungeonland is at P833. Of course the entrance to Zagig's demi-plane (as well as the other ring of five members) is also on this level (we have now made it Ravenloft), but it is at P824.
Your reference to Gord the Rogue books has me puzzled. I do not recall any mention of Greyhawk Castle other than the castle in Greyhawk City. However, I will take your word for it and must admit that we overlooked this tie-in.
You are correct about Z405 [that it was the place where the 9 demigods were captured]. Furthermore, note the elements of P900 for more information about the capturing process. As far as the rest of the nine trapped gods goes, that information has been strictly guarded so that we may use it in the future as the need arises.
Graz'zt has since escaped, and thus we didn't put him in the castle. However, the relief face he was kept in was originally at P207 as a cruel joke and form of torture by Zagig (trapping a demon in a clown's face is rather severe). The statue of Boccob at P209 was assigned to guard him. His evilness still influences much of the magic of this level (as you note by reading it). However, we did not refer to Graz'zt himself due to TSR's current policy on Demons.
By "Graz'zt" I'm sure they meant to say Fraz-Urb'luu. I don't think the authors of the book had any direct experience with Gygax's original campaign, but they worked with people who did.
As you probably know, the original Castle Greyhawk was reported to have over 200 levels in it.
Two hundred levels??? I know Zagig was insane, but how long would it take to first plan and then excavate 200 levels? How many people would need to be hired to work on such a project? Was it excavated using human (or humanoid) labor, magic, or both??? How long would it take to complete, and how much would it cost? How long would it take to stock the rooms with whatever and then add tricks and traps, both mechanical and magical, once it was completed? How long would it take to explore 200 levels? And who in their right mind would do it??? LOL I dealt with logistics when I was in the Air Force, and so questions like this always spring to mind whenever I see stuff like this...
The 26 levels in Greyhawk Ruins seems plenty to me, thank you very much...
In terms of the logistical construction of the Castle, I tend to assume that Zagyg created a lot of it by magic, backed by DM fiat ;)