Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Nov 23, 2006 12:27:06	Of course... could we miss a so interesting thread? Just as we spoke about the Evilest one, here's room to speak about the Goodest of all! And I think it is hardier to choose, or also to limit the cast to 2 Immortals (like Thanatos and Atzanteotl seem to have done in the "Evilest" thread).
#2 maddog Nov 23, 2006 12:34:53	Of course... could we miss a so interesting thread? Just as we spoke about the Evilest one, here's room to speak about the Goodest of all! And I think it is hardier to choose, or also to limit the cast to 2 Immortals (like Thanatos and Atzanteotl seem to have done in the "Evilest" thread). It's Heirarch Havard of the Sphere of Greater Good Cheer without a doubt! :D --Ray.
#3 johnbiles Nov 25, 2006 2:13:05	I'm going to nominate Koryis, patron of Peace and Prosperity. He is pretty much Mr. Nice Guy.
#4 agathokles Nov 25, 2006 8:09:02	I'm going to nominate Koryis, patron of Peace and Prosperity. He is pretty much Mr. Nice Guy. Yes, Koryis is definitely Good, though Gareth, Zirchev and Rheddrian Benekander also seem decent sorts. Most others are too militant to be paragons of goodness.
#5 havard Nov 25, 2006 16:51:09	Yes, Koryis is definitely Good, though Gareth, Zirchev and Rheddrian Benekander also seem decent sorts. Most others are too militant to be paragons of goodness. Gareth seems like a good guy, but he is the kind of good guy who could easily be revealed to be a villain, assuming he isn't Rheddrian. I have always followed the HW writeup stating that Ixion is the Supreme Good Immortal in Mystara, though WotI gives him a less sympathetic outlook. I'd also nominate Ray as Supreme Good Hierarch of Supportiveness ;) Havard
#6 Cthulhudrew Nov 25, 2006 19:38:24	Gareth seems like a good guy, but he is the kind of good guy who could easily be revealed to be a villain, assuming he isn't Rheddrian. I don't know. I find Gareth highly suspect myself. He offers forth the idea that the interference of Immortals that led to the WotI as abhorrent, and pledges himself to be the sole protector against future such abuses, essentially setting himself up to be the one being. It just seems like paying Peter to rob Paul to me. If he is so concerned about Immortal abuses of mortal's followings, then by manipulating mortals into rejecting the commands of other Immortals, isn't he doing the same thing he's preaching against? Ie, taking away or otherwise subverting mortal free will? If he was as benevolent as he claims to be, it seems to me that he should be working within the Immortal hierarchy to amend their methods of behavior, or otherwise working against it to do the same, but without involving mortals in any way.
#7 zombiegleemax Nov 26, 2006 2:49:42	I've never really thought about it, but now that I have, I'm not even sure that Mystara needs a paragon of absolute goodness. Seems too sweet and sickly, and too easy to use as a cop out if required by the DM.
#8 havard Nov 26, 2006 15:25:52	I don't know. I find Gareth highly suspect myself. He offers forth the idea that the interference of Immortals that led to the WotI as abhorrent, and pledges himself to be the sole protector against future such abuses, essentially setting himself up to be the one being. It just seems like paying Peter to rob Paul to me. If he is so concerned about Immortal abuses of mortal's followings, then by manipulating mortals into rejecting the commands of other Immortals, isn't he doing the same thing he's preaching against? Ie, taking away or otherwise subverting mortal free will? If he was as benevolent as he claims to be, it seems to me that he should be working within the Immortal hierarchy to amend their methods of behavior, or otherwise working against it to do the same, but without involving mortals in any way. Yeah, I am back to Ogdoban Treel as my favorite candidate for who Gareth is. Either that or the "Gareth=Gary=EGG=Egg of Coot" theory... It seems strange if even Benny would go as far as Gareth did in his criticism of the Immortals, in spite of their actions. Rad OTOH... Mah9: I think you are right. Mystara doesn't have many good or evil nations, so it makes sense that the Immortals also reflect this... Havard
#9 gawain_viii Nov 27, 2006 8:04:51	Although the evil deities are fairly easy to pin down, which is good isn't so. They all have their flaws. Ixion is generally portrayed as the great good god, typical for sun deities, but even then, he has a temper that would get an Irishman in trouble. Taking a look at the Immortals' spheres of influence, I would think that Karameikos is the closest thing Mystara has to a "good" civilization (in the narrowly defined scope of alignment). That would lead me to believe that the Traladaran trinity is closest to fit the mark of "good" Immortals, except that Halav has a bit of racism against humanoids. So I'd have to say my pick for "good" deity would be between Petra and Zirchev. Failing that, the minor deity of Chardastes--healing beyond all reason, extending life for the sake of life. And the only bit of malace he has commited, that we are aware of, is revenge against his own traitorus thief of a cleric, Elwyn (a minor stroke against Leptar). Roger
#10 zombiegleemax Nov 27, 2006 8:30:53	Zirchev always struck me as being slightly misanthropic, and Petra seems to be too closely associated with the Milenians, who are not necessarily the nicest of peoples. I've always put the "goodness" of Karameikos down to the personality of Stefan, not any immortal in particular, and I cannot remember any canon source associating him with any immortal's philosophy. The "goodest" immortal might well be Chardastes then, but he seems to be such a generally minor figure, I wonder if being "pure good" is actually any use in Mystara, as the immortals themselves seem to be primarily interested in their own Machiavellian schemes, which a "good" outlook does not seem to predispose one towards. On the other hand, it does seem to benefit evil immortals no end.
#11 agathokles Nov 27, 2006 9:24:39	Zirchev always struck me as being slightly misanthropic, Actually, he is described as a patron of intelligent social misfits, forest folk, and even a patron of the Afflicted in the Savage Coast. Seems to me that his perceived misanthropy is actually most a consequence of the fact that, in his mortal life, he was an intelligent social misfit -- an Hutaakan-trained Traldar wizard in a time when Hutaakans where easily confused with Gnolls. The "goodest" immortal might well be Chardastes then, but he seems to be such a generally minor figure, Yes, he's not that known, so it's hard to say whether he has less pleasant aspects or not.
#12 twin_campaigns Dec 02, 2006 4:00:15	It depends on the definitions of goodness, but in some ways Ka might be a nice candidate. Of course while preserving the diversity of life he (she?) uses many means that are downright cruel. But at least he seems to keep well out of the self-absorbed intriques of the others, and his aims are not limited to some specific race, culture or creed. Viewing the great spans of the millenia, Ka's actions might be interpreted as the only metaphysically "good" in Mystara. Others might look at the Hollow World as nothing more than extreme arrogance, Big Brother watching over the select few, forced status quo etc.