Multiple Psicrystals

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

dirk00001

Dec 18, 2006 19:30:38
One of my players just asked me if there was a feat or PrC that allowed them to have multiple psicrystals at one time...and, although I swear I've seen something to that effect, after looking through the EPH, CompPsi, and even the psionics section of the WotC site I could find neither jack nor squat, PrC or feat, that'd allow for that. I tried searching for it on the DS forums as well, thinking that perhaps it was in a PrC someone made, but even that avenue proved to be a dead-end.

So...am I just imagining things again (my boss says that he's real, but I only agree with him because he gives me imaginary money every couple weeks), or can someone point me in the right direction?
#2

methvezem

Dec 18, 2006 19:54:57
IIRC, take a look in Races of Eberron. The answer you're seeking might lie herein under the PrCs or racial substitution levels chapters.

Hope that point you in the right direction.
#3

Sysane

Dec 18, 2006 20:23:12
There's a feat in XPH that lets a character bond another personality trait to an already existing psycrystal. Thats all that I know of anyway.
#4

lyric

Dec 19, 2006 1:29:57
what would be the purpose of having multiple crystals be?? if they were wizardly familiars, it would be almost like being a pokemon master :P lol Familiar! I choose you!!
#5

methvezem

Dec 19, 2006 7:54:13
Ok, here exactly what I did find regarding multiple psicrystals (or more correctly: psicrystals with multiples personnalities ;))

From Races of Eberron, p121 under the changeling egoist racial sub level exist an ability called everchanging psicrystal which allow the reshaping of the personnality contained in the psicrystal.

From Races of Eberron, p125 under the kalashtar telepath racial sub level exist an ability called compound psicrystal which allow a psicrystal to have 2 distinct personnalities at the same time, which is in effect the same thing as the feat Sysane mentionned above - improved psicrystal.

That's all I can find about that particular subject.
#6

Sysane

Dec 19, 2006 8:04:42
To be honest, I see having multiple psicrystals paving the way for all sorts of brokenness. Mainly due to psicrystals being able to maintain focus thru certain feats and psionic powers. Its an area not to tread lightly on without thinking about the bigger picture.
#7

methvezem

Dec 19, 2006 8:29:47
I agree 100% here: multiple personalities is ok while multiple psicrystals is broken as it could lend to much abuse.
#8

dirk00001

Dec 19, 2006 9:47:16
Know 'bout the Imp. Psicrystal feat, and I do see the possibility for broken-ness with more than one psicrystal...just thought I'd seen something about poke-master stuff since I recall there being a feat that allows a mage to have multiple familiars, and figured they were somewhat similar. Didn't think about the multi-focus thing, though; that does change things quite a bit.

Thanks for the help!
#9

Sysane

Dec 19, 2006 10:22:59
You could always house rule that no more than one psicrystal can hold or gain focus regardless of the number of psicrystals a character possesses.
#10

dirk00001

Dec 19, 2006 11:19:34
I'm actually thinking of looking at the Familiar feats and modifying them appropriately - perhaps have "Extra Psicrystal" and "Dual Psicrystal Focus" or something as different feats. Not sure yet...still contemplating.
#11

Sysane

Dec 19, 2006 11:53:51
I'd say the number of psicrystals a character can possess at one time cannot exceed his attribute modifier tied to manifesting.

I'd also make the dual psicrystal focus thingy an epic feat.

My two bits anyway ;)
#12

dirk00001

Dec 19, 2006 14:20:42
I'd say the number of psicrystals a character can possess at on time cannot exceed his prime manifesting attribute modifier.

I'd also make the dual psicrystal focus thingy an epic feat.

My two bits anyway ;)

My first thought was to make the whole thing an Epic Feat thing, period - just Epic Psicrystal Affinity or whatever, giving you a second psicrystal with it's own personality but that otherwise has all the same abilities as your first. Have each of the psicrystal-related feats plus Psicraft 24 as the prereqs.
#13

kalthandrix

Dec 19, 2006 15:16:26
First let me start with saying that I do not particularly like the idea of allowing anyone to have multiple psicrystals. I think the potential of abuse it great and I think that they loose some of their value as a companion to the psion - like a wizards familiar, and become more like just an item.

Now that being said - here are some thoughts I had that I think would be come good additions.

I would split the ML of the psion evenly between the crystals for determining the abilities that they receive. So a character with a ML of 10 (that counted towards the advancement of a psicrystal) who had 2 crystals, would only count 5 levels of ML each toward determining the abilities and powers that each crystal would have.

Now with this avenue, it also paves the way for some interesting feats, like something that increases your ML but only for determining the powers that your crystal gets without the bonus' to powers and power points for the psion.

And you could also then have a PrC that is like a Crystal Master or Crystal Controller - a psion that has many crystals that he can use as extensions of himself for multiple purposes.

Let me know if you are interested in this PrC idea because I am actually warming to the idea the more I think about this, but the name would have to be cooler - I have some great ideas already for some abilities.
#14

ruhl-than_sage

Dec 19, 2006 16:35:47
Sounds pretty sweet to me! Though of course, like has been said: care must be taken to consider the wider ramifications of multiple crystals and properly weight the benefits with prerequisites or PrC membership.

Sounds like a great Epic feat or PrC to me, though... several people on these boards know how crazy I went in the design process of the last psionic PrC we made.
#15

Sysane

Dec 19, 2006 17:18:28
Sort of like the animal companion mechanics for rangers and druids. Nice.
#16

kalthandrix

Dec 19, 2006 18:48:04
I will put this on my to do list and make a PrC
#17

lyric

Dec 19, 2006 21:26:57
please do I'm liking the idea myself It could open up a lot of new feats and possibilities. Imagine if such a character were to go into theivery. One psicrystal could help him filch things, and another could help him discern which is the most valuable item, and another could help detect traps! They'd become a team. many bonuses could acrue, and serious penalties could apply to the character whenever trying to do things 'on his own' or worse, when a crystal is destroyed. I like the idea of them being extensions of himself. Perhaps such a PrC could gain a new ML for powers only ever 3 levels?? People might think the crystal controller was insane, talking to all these chunks of crystal. ;) who has the multiple personalities here? :P
#18

cnahumck

Dec 19, 2006 22:13:38
on the psionics boards they have had the discussion of the RAW for psicrystals over and over again. By the rules, psicrystals get feats and can be given the wild talent feat. the psicrystal can then gain it's own psicrystal. The problem is that your psi-crystal can then no longer be focused for you. As it stands, by the rules this is the only way to do it. But Kal will come up with something to fill the void.

Also, check out the "the big guy is with me" build on the psionics board, it's pretty interesting.
#19

terminus_vortexa

Dec 19, 2006 23:35:40
Has anyone besides me ever given much thought to the concept of a powerful wiz/psi fusing his psicrystal and familiar into one entity with the capabilities of both?
#20

kalthandrix

Dec 20, 2006 7:10:55
Has anyone besides me ever given much thought to the concept of a powerful wiz/psi fusing his psicrystal and familiar into one entity with the capabilities of both?

Kinda, but then not really :D

I did come up with a creature called a greater psionocus a while ago, and it allowed the psion to kind of meld his psicrystal with a psionocus - I have been toying with the idea of taking it to another level too, but have not gotten around to it.
#21

Sysane

Dec 20, 2006 7:58:11
on the psionics boards they have had the discussion of the RAW for psicrystals over and over again. By the rules, psicrystals get feats and can be given the wild talent feat. the psicrystal can then gain it's own psicrystal. The problem is that your psi-crystal can then no longer be focused for you. As it stands, by the rules this is the only way to do it.

Thats just wrong. I'm sure that wasn't the intent when the psycrystal concept was first conceived. This is just an example of min/maxing at its worst.
#22

kalthandrix

Dec 20, 2006 9:00:30
on the psionics boards they have had the discussion of the RAW for psicrystals over and over again. By the rules, psicrystals get feats and can be given the wild talent feat. the psicrystal can then gain it's own psicrystal. The problem is that your psi-crystal can then no longer be focused for you. As it stands, by the rules this is the only way to do it. But Kal will come up with something to fill the void.

Also, check out the "the big guy is with me" build on the psionics board, it's pretty interesting.

I am really unsure if this is true - I will have to do some research to be sure though.

I was under the assumption that like psicrystals, like familiars, did not gain feats and such. I had a question into the Sage Advice at Dragon, but they never responded.

Hey Chris - can you post the link to the the big guy thing and where you might have found the info on the whole feat issue if you seen it on the message board. Thanks.
#23

dirk00001

Dec 20, 2006 10:16:38
Yeah, links to related forum threads would be great.

Kal - I *definitely* would be interested in a PrC like that, and would love to help with it as well; Since Complete Arcane came out I occasionally laugh at the whole "Pokemaster" wizard concept, so doing something psion-related-and-serious would be worth the time. If you'd be interested in a group effort drop me a PM or email (you should have my addy somewhere)
#24

cnahumck

Dec 20, 2006 10:56:31
Thats just wrong. I'm sure that wasn't the intent when the psycrystal concept was first conceived. This is just an example of min/maxing at its worst.

I am not saying I use it, just that by RAW, psicrystals get feats. Most people I know wouldn't use it.

Check here for stuff on Psicrystals and hit points.

Check here for a very useful link about FAQ regarding psicrystals.

still looking for the big guy is with me. will search and post later.
#25

kalthandrix

Dec 20, 2006 11:30:31
Wow - that is cool - and it makes psicrystals cooler too IMO.

Now I do not wat to seem dim - but what is RAW - I can think of several usages for those letters, and none are approperiate for the boards
#26

fnordbear

Dec 20, 2006 11:38:53
RAW = Rules as Written as opposed to RAI = Rules as Intended

Basically the litteral interpertation of the rules and not the "spirit" of the rules.
#27

kalthandrix

Dec 20, 2006 11:41:11
RAW = Rules as Written

OIC - well I was way off then in my use of the acronym :embarrass :D
#28

Sysane

Dec 20, 2006 11:48:44
OIC - well I was way off then in my use of the acronym :embarrass :D

Really Awful Wombats?
#29

cnahumck

Dec 20, 2006 12:16:55
Ok, here is a Psicrystal FAQ.

Andhere is the big guy is with me.

Hope this helps.
#30

kalthandrix

Dec 20, 2006 12:43:03
Really Awful Wombats?

Mine were not PC enough to be posted. :D