The Borea Project

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

eldersphinx

Jan 12, 2007 22:36:34
Lucius Valentinium growled in weary triumph as the last of the brambles parted beneath his blade, opening a space large enough for an agile person to squeeze through. Nothing had seemed to go right ever since that apportation spell had malfunctioned, sending them here - it might have been nice to see that sneak Bertram befuddled by the half-worn markings on the great stone plinths that towered around them, but for Marcosia to judge from the sun's position that they'd either become unstuck in time or else traveled thousands of miles from home at best was far less pleasant. And the air was chillier here, and strangely scented, as well. No, he'd be glad to be quit of this place.

Lucius stepped forward, blade at the ready... and gasped in astonishment. The ruins behind him were on the edge of a sharp, barren bluff; below him stretched a broad river, wider and probably deeper than anything in the Empire or most likely any of the lands beyond, and along its banks could be seen stretches of at least four different kinds of completely alien terrain - red-furred grasslands, riotous jungle, black-glassed bare stone, broken as if struck by a giant's hammer, and ominous, purple-oozing marshland. Probably more lay hidden beyond his view, and none of it was anything he'd even heard of before.

A sudden rustle of movement, cut off in midstep, told Lucius that at least one of his companions had reacted exactly the same way he had. It was suddenly a lot less important, though, as the warrior detected the shape of something else approaching from his left. A quick turn of the head spotted the new arrival - a huge lizardlike creature, bipedal and with a mouth the size of Lucius' forearm, that sounded a lot like one of the creatures Uncle Acrision had mentioned battling in an expedition to the Thanegioth islands, once. Only Acrision had never mentioned anything about throbbing shards of rusting metal sticking out of the creature's body, or occasional sparks of blue lightning sparking from its claws and tail. Glancing quickly behind him to see how close his companions were, Lucius wondered once again about just how far from home he really was, and whether he should fight this thing or run...


THE BOREA PROJECT

Beyond the Adri Varma Plateau and the Great Northern Wilderness, west of the Wyrmsteeth Mountains and the Marshes of Maggorath, north of Great Hule and a source of mystery and fear even for them, lies the river valley of Borea. A place that might have been the cradle of civilizations, now home to forbidden magics and things beyond mortal understanding, Borea is a place of mystery, wonder and adventure.

* Design Notes: I'm thinking of Borea as a place for me to run pulp stories in Mystara - Edgar Rice Burroughs' John Carter of Mars, Howard's Conan, Moorcock's Hawkmoon, and similar stories. It's a place full of things and powers that can be neither fully understood or controlled, free of high-powered NPCs who can dictate campaign events (even the Immortals have good reason to avoid Borea!), and lots of opportunities for PCs to be heroes.

This is also not intended to be the be-all and end-all of Borea - just a starting point. Additions to, expansion on, or changes to the material given here are welcome - others should feel free to post ideas and contributions.


* Timeline:
BC 4500: Beastmen are created by Hel in the Borean river valley. At this point in Mystara's history, the orientation of Borea is almost completely reversed from that of the present day - headwaters in the subarctic northeast, river mouth to the south.

BC 3500: The Blackmoor civilization rises to world prominence, founding settlements and colonies along the southern coast of Brun. Early conflicts with the Borean beastmen soon blossom into a holy crusade; armies moving into the river valley are supported by the construction of fortresses, outposts and settlements.

BC 3200: The war against the Beastmen ends in triumph, as the Beastmen are driven into the harsh and barren lands of Hyborea further to the south and east. [This is a bit of retconning to the established canon history, which described Hyborea as being *colder* than the Borean valley - which, given that the North Pole was somewhere around Ethengar at the time, is kinda ridiculous. A better compromise is for it to be a temperate climate, but with a terrain composed mainly of inhospitable steppe and rocky desert.] The rich river valley of Borea is reclaimed for civilization, and the men of Blackmoor begin expanding into it, building several great cities full of magic and high technology.

BC 3000: The Great Rain of Fire destroys the realm of Blackmoor, and shifts the planetary axis of Mystara. The Borean river valley is turned almost upside down, completely disrupting the climate of the region. Several Blackmoorian devices located in the cities also detonate, for reasons that will never be known; the devastation, though comparatively minor, is more than sufficient to wreck the Borean civilization. The few humans that survive flee for more hospitable lands, or place themselves in suspended animation deep within the ruins of their cities. Several Immortal avatars present in the Borean valley at the time of the disaster find themselves trapped or damaged in the disaster, leading to a general interdiction being placed on the region by the Council of Pandius.

BC 3000-2000: The Borean river valley slowly recovers from the devastation of the Great Rain of Fire and its aftermath. Vulcanism and flash floods have ripped and reshaped the surface of the land, adding chaotic terrain into what was once a rich, alluvial flood plain; in many places, native life has been stripped away, leaving a bare slate to be populated by whatever can take hold and thrive. Thus, arid scrubland coexists next to volcanic obsidian mesas and teeming jungles - the latter made up of animals and plants escaped from the zoos and parks of Blackmoorian cities.

BC 1750: The Great Horde of King Loark sweeps through the lower Borean valley on its way into eastern Brun. For the most part, the ruins of the region are shunned, due to ancient legends among the humanoids about the ferocious, merciless human warriors that once came from this land, but a few kobolds and hobgoblins choose to settle here.

BC 1500-1000: Explorers, exiles, nomads, outcasts, and adventurers of all kinds slowly gather and settle in Borea, forming a culture and civilization from many disparate threads. Some of these arrivals choose not to disturb the Blackmoorian ruins, but others dare to, returning with fragments of texts that form the basis for a unified Borean language and written script... in some instances, and dying in spectacular manners that form the basis for many a cautionary myth, in others.

BC 910: The immortal, entropic being Hazaern the Moaner attempts to enter into and destroy the land of Borea, but is defeated by a nameless warrior who identifies himself only as the Blademaster. Hazaern's lifeforce is trapped and sealed away beneath the ruins of the city of Mirrormere, and the Immortals, newly aware of the potential dangers of Borea, reaffirm their refusal to investigate the region.

BC 854: The first League of All Borea is founded, uniting several of the city-states and smaller kingdoms into a unified nation. Not all of the dominions of the region choose to become members, but the new League is too large and powerful to be challenged openly by any of its neighbors. Fortunately, the League appears more interested in internal affairs than open conquest.

BC 850-400: The League establishes its cultural and economic superiority in Borea, gradually grows to fill the entire region, and decays into corruption and decadence. Its ruling class, almost unbelievably wealthy compared to the common folk, begin to take their power and privilege for granted and start exploring forbidden lore in search for even greater power. The capital of the League moves to Mirrormere.

BC 386: A rebellion against the elite of the League begins, led by a battle-mage whose attack spells all take the form of swords formed from pure elemental energy. Though this wizard is manifestly not the Blademaster of centuries past, the rebellion soon hangs the name on him in order to take advantage of the legend, and is able to topple the government of the League. Unfortunately, the strife does not end there, as city turns on city over the spoils. The League soon collapses, with its former members cast adrift once more.

BC 150: Hobgoblins attempt to exploit the power of artifacts discovered on the outskirts of Manicora. They are transformed into the first thouls.

BC 73-19: The Autarch Kerobus rises to power in Borea, taking control first of the city of Denarius and gradually conquering all of the other kingdoms of the region through force of arms. Though in theory the Autarch rules all of Borea, his realm is constantly wracked with rebellion and unrest; the Autarch rules from the saddle, constantly crushing minor uprisings, and his empire dies with him.

AC 0: Far to the southeast of Borea, the first Thyatian Emperor is crowned. Word of this does't reach any of the Borean cities for decades, though, and then only as distant and unimportant trivia.

AC 115: Hulean forces attempt to march north into Borea, but are stopped by the Guardian of Bonewatch. Half a Hulean legion goes to feed the monster's hunger; the rest retreat in disarray. The Huleans accept the Forest of Silence as their northern border, and limit their meddling in Borea to mere espionage and religious proselytizing.

AC 283: The Select begin to awaken within the Veiled Citadel of Manicora. Finding themselves mostly powerless in a world greatly changed from anything they remembered or expected, the Select choose to remain in hiding and slowly build their power through a careful campaign of kidnappings, interrogations and targeted experiments.

AC 400: The first of many False Gods cults arises in the city of Lazareth, creating a religious tradition that will eventually come to dominate that city, last until the modern day, and be seen as a serious threat by many of the other rulers and powers of Borea.

AC 479: Alzendarius, an Alphatian mage and explorer, discovers the lands of Borea. He trades some of the secrets of manufacture of skyships in exchange for Borean archaological and mystical lore, and establishes a tenuous trade route between Alphatia and the northern port-city of Azure. Though this trade partnership will rely on skyship travel, careful planning and luck, it will prove to be the best way into or out of Borea other than travelling through Great Hule.

AC 500-800: The second League of Borea is founded on ideals of common defense and improved general welfare, to deal as an equal with the nations of Hule, Alphatia and other, more distant neighbors. It presides over almost three centuries of prosperity before collapsing in acrimonious squabbling and a new round of petty wars.

AC 803: Hydrax establish a stable vortex to, and subsequently conquer, the citadel of Xacaras in the western volcanic highlands. Their presence on the Prime proves to be an immediate danger, but they are unable to extend their dominion very far beyond their initial beachhead.

AC 921: The Molt Plague sweeps the city of Eyriewatch, resulting in the overthrow of the Falcon King and the rise of the Black Guild as a player in the city's tangled politics.

AC 1000: Present day. Most D&D products are set in this period.

[more detail to come!]
#2

ripvanwormer

Jan 12, 2007 22:49:09
This is a bit of retconning to the established canon history, which described Hyborea as being *colder* than the Borean valley - which, given that the North Pole was somewhere around Ethengar at the time, is kinda ridiculous.

I don't think so. Looking at the antediluvian map from the Hollow World boxed set, ancient Brun looks like this:

IMAGE(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/ripvanwormer/Borea.jpg)

Hyborea is still north of Borea, then. The broken line is the arctic circle, so it's all going to be pretty cold.

I know all the early Gazetteers claimed the Known World was covered by glaciers at the time. I don't know how to explain that.
#3

eldersphinx

Jan 12, 2007 23:16:54
I don't think so. Looking at the antediluvian map from the Hollow World boxed set, ancient Brun looks like this:

IMAGE(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/ripvanwormer/Borea.jpg)

Hyborea is still north of Borea, then. The broken line is the arctic circle, so it's all going to be pretty cold.

I know all the early Gazetteers claimed the Known World was covered by glaciers at the time. I don't know how to explain that.

If you take the Hollow World precataclysmic map as pure canon, then Thonia also ends up as being somewhere due north of Norwold, seeing as how it was well to the west of Blackmoor. I'm not inclined to trust any of the 'whole world' maps, especially given the problems inherent in putting eastern Skothar only a few hundred miles off from the Immortals' Arm.

Arguably a minor point in any case, but the canon contradicts itself to such an extent already that I don't feel much need to change it.

What'd ya think of the stuff happening after the Blackmoorian Cataclysm? ;)
#4

Cthulhudrew

Jan 13, 2007 0:48:15
I'm not inclined to trust any of the 'whole world' maps, especially given the problems inherent in putting eastern Skothar only a few hundred miles off from the Immortals' Arm.

Just out of curiosity, what problems would there be in this?

Anyway, still reading, but I'm liking what I'm seeing thus far. Have you ever read any of Clark Ashton Smith's Hyperborea fiction? It might make a good fit/inspiration for development of this region.
#5

havard

Jan 13, 2007 6:49:47
OldDawg, thanks for bringing up this region. It has been of interest to me for years and this was rekindled somewhat when seeing the "Borean Ridge" on the Western Alliance Gaz map.

As for the thing about Thonia on the HW map: This area corresponds to the Thonia of Mentzer's Master Rules map. According to DA1 this was not the original Thonia, but rather a region where refugees from Thonia settled after fleeing from the Great Rain of disaster. The original Thonia lay ofcourse, south of Blackmoor.

Back to Borea. I like your general concepts so far. I havent read any of the novels you refer to, but I know enough about them to get some general idea.

The Guardian of Bonewatch evokes images of Shelob to me. In fact Borea might resemble what Mordor was in the ages before Sauron returned to the world.

Hazaern being trapped somewhere in the valley also has great potential. He could be focus of a "free the demon" plot, but perhaps also a silent manipulator, or even a power to be tapped.

Another thing I would have liked to see tied into this region is the "Blue Knife". The Blue Knife is according to Gaz10, only a dagger +1. Ofcourse, everyone knows that cannot be the entire truth. More likely it is an artifact, perhaps tied to the creation of the Beastman race itself. Perhaps brining the Blue Knife back to some location in Borea could be the way to activate the artifacts other powers?

Also, it could be interesting to bring in some of the ideas Bruce Heard presented in the World in Flames scenario for Borea...

Okay, just tossing out some ideas here...hope they may be of use

Havard
#6

Cthulhudrew

Jan 13, 2007 11:35:54
Another thing I would have liked to see tied into this region is the "Blue Knife". The Blue Knife is according to Gaz10, only a dagger +1. Ofcourse, everyone knows that cannot be the entire truth. More likely it is an artifact, perhaps tied to the creation of the Beastman race itself.

From the story in Gaz10, it seemed to me that the implication behind the story of the "blue knife" was that it was steel, suddenly discovered for the first time among the humanoids. Of course, in the DM's guide, in the section on Oenkmar, it was made into a +1 dagger, sort of implying that it was perhaps instead their first brush with magical weapons.

Neither seemed entirely satisfactory, though, like you say. It seems more in keeping with the nature of the D&D setting to make it some sort of artifact.
#7

culture20

Jan 13, 2007 12:50:06
All artifacts of historical significance are "magical" artifacts?
#8

Hugin

Jan 13, 2007 18:23:29
If you take the Hollow World precataclysmic map as pure canon, then Thonia also ends up as being somewhere due north of Norwold, seeing as how it was well to the west of Blackmoor.

Just pointing out that Havard touched on this in his Blackmoor Map thread (or maybe the second one?) mentioning that Thonia should be south of Blackmoor and the 'Thonia' label is misplaced.

I'm not inclined to trust any of the 'whole world' maps, especially given the problems inherent in putting eastern Skothar only a few hundred miles off from the Immortals' Arm.

It looks more like 1500+ miles according to the scale - still not as great a distance as I would prefer either, but still signficant I'd think.

I like it when people use some of these remote areas of Mystara to explore some ideas. Looks good so far and I look forward to 'more detail'.
#9

twin_campaigns

Jan 16, 2007 1:38:57
I always thought that the issue of the Blue Knife was left ambigous in the Gazetteer. The original Quest for the Blue Knife was initiated by dreams and portents, and the various tribes traveled the whole continent in search of the artefact. It seems to me unsure whether the knife that was found in Oenkmar (?) was indeed THE blue knife, or whether it really exists.

Perhaps the Broken lands "Blue knife" was a part of a much more local Immortal plot, and the original Quest was never completed?
#10

yakman

Jun 11, 2007 13:53:16
I like the idea--that Borea is the high-powered, death to those who enter realm. I like that it was the center of Blackmoor era beastman civilization, and was violently subjugated by Blackmoor humans. However, I'm not certain about the timeline, as it makes the realm rather conventional, with city-states, leagues, trade, etc..

I think the 'project' should explain why these beastmen were so strong--something in the land itself, from the primordial past? What impacts did this 'thing' have on the Blackmoor conquerors, who were almost certainly very violent, very dangerous men? Was there a sort of fusion between the Blackmoor magic/technology and the Beastman primordial/magic? If so, what remains of it? Could the Reign of Fire have 'unleashed' this nefarious force, or suppressed it? The trapped immortals is also interesting--Borea could be a realm where Immortals are captured on the Prime Material, where they have been removed from other planes, and where they are locked in struggle with one another.

The ancient Blackmoor 'sleepers' waking is a fascinating campaign hook--what do these millenia old mega-cutters think about the new world?

Just some thoughts...
#11

havard

Jun 11, 2007 15:50:30
I like the idea--that Borea is the high-powered, death to those who enter realm. I like that it was the center of Blackmoor era beastman civilization, and was violently subjugated by Blackmoor humans. However, I'm not certain about the timeline, as it makes the realm rather conventional, with city-states, leagues, trade, etc..

I think the 'project' should explain why these beastmen were so strong--something in the land itself, from the primordial past? What impacts did this 'thing' have on the Blackmoor conquerors, who were almost certainly very violent, very dangerous men? Was there a sort of fusion between the Blackmoor magic/technology and the Beastman primordial/magic? If so, what remains of it? Could the Reign of Fire have 'unleashed' this nefarious force, or suppressed it? The trapped immortals is also interesting--Borea could be a realm where Immortals are captured on the Prime Material, where they have been removed from other planes, and where they are locked in struggle with one another.

The ancient Blackmoor 'sleepers' waking is a fascinating campaign hook--what do these millenia old mega-cutters think about the new world?

Just some thoughts...

Thanks for bringing back this topic Yakman!

You have some interesting ideas here. The most important historical event of the valley was that this is where the Beastmen were created combining the flesh of beasts and the souls of wicked men through a powerful enchantment cast by Hel herself (my elaboration).

Now, I had been toying with the idea of Hel using an artifact to do this, but that idea may be a bit old (with Vanya's artifact and all that), but how about a magical location instead? Much of the old Chaos Magic created to fuse the souls into the flesh of beast was absorbed by the ground. A temple of sorts was created around it. That temple is underground now, but other religious structures may have been erected above ground to mark its location.

The Blackmoor Crusade drowe the Beastmen out of their valley and into Hypperborea. The men of Blackmoor likely thought of the Chaos magic as something they could tap into. Perhaps this corrupted the Blackmoorians and turned the colony into an evil place even under human rule. In any case, the Blackmoor civilization was destroyed with the Great Rain of Fire. This allowed for the Beastmen to come streaming back into the valley which is holy to them. Not only does the valley contain the Temple of their origin, but also the tombs of the first Beastman Lords, whose lineages can be traced down to the modern Beastman races of Orcs, Goblins, Hobgoblins, Bugbears, Kobolds, Trolls and Ogres. Current humanoid warlords constantly wage wars over these holy sites.

Also, remnants of the Blackmoor colonization is still present. Lost ruins may conceal ancient structures of that era guarded by Meks or mechanical traps of all sorts. A brotherhood of "Black Boreans", evil humans who claim to be descendants of Blackmoor and whose leaders are cruel necromancers still have strongholds in the valley, though they have forgotten their old lore.

This stuff should also be incorporated somehow IMO:
http://pandius.com/urzud.html

Havard
#12

yakman

Jun 11, 2007 16:11:17
Thanks for bringing back this topic Yakman!

You have some interesting ideas here. The most important historical event of the valley was that this is where the Beastmen were created combining the flesh of beasts and the souls of wicked men through a powerful enchantment cast by Hel herself (my elaboration).

Now, I had been toying with the idea of Hel using an artifact to do this, but that idea may be a bit old (with Vanya's artifact and all that), but how about a magical location instead? Much of the old Chaos Magic created to fuse the souls into the flesh of beast was absorbed by the ground. A temple of sorts was created around it. That temple is underground now, but other religious structures may have been erected above ground to mark its location.

The Blackmoor Crusade drove the Beastmen out of their valley and into Hypperborea. The men of Blackmoor likely thought of the Chaos magic as something they could tap into. Perhaps this corrupted the Blackmoorians and turned the colony into an evil place even under human rule. In any case, the Blackmoor civilization was destroyed with the Great Rain of Fire. This allowed for the Beastmen to come streaming back into the valley which is holy to them. Not only does the valley contain the Temple of their origin, but also the tombs of the first Beastman Lords, whose lineages can be traced down to the modern Beastman races of Orcs, Goblins, Hobgoblins, Bugbears, Kobolds, Trolls and Ogres. Current humanoid warlords constantly wage wars over these holy sites.

Also, remnants of the Blackmoor colonization is still present. Lost ruins may conceal ancient structures of that era guarded by Meks or mechanical traps of all sorts. A brotherhood of "Black Boreans", evil humans who claim to be descendants of Blackmoor and whose leaders are cruel necromancers still have strongholds in the valley, though they have forgotten their old lore.

This stuff should also be incorporated somehow IMO:
http://pandius.com/urzud.html

I'm thinking we should try to integrate the hordes of undead from the Western Alliance gaz into the picture somehow--continuity is important after all, but bearing that in mind...

Instead of an artifact, how about we have some really, really, big, bad beastie? Something from outer space perhaps? This creature's malevolent/alien influence (it could be dead, but when it crashed into the ground it corrupted the land...) is what created the beastmen? Perhaps something from the Nightmare Realm that got 'stuck' in mystara? It's influence is so powerful that it changes the impact of magic/technology/reality around it, really separating the Borean Valley from the rest of the world.

The Blackmoor humans might not have known of this when they first moved into the valley (and might not ever have been aware of it) but they knew of the powerful beastman nations that existed here, strengthened by some horrific 'magic' that made them the only serious challenger to Blackmooran dominance of the world. The humans set up shop to try to harness this power, but were corrupted by it, setting themselves up as gods and performing terrible rituals. Perhaps, the Great Reign of Fire maybe wasn't intended to destroy Blackmoor proper... perhaps it was intended to destroy these uber-nefarious colonies?

As for the present day, I like the idea of the slumbering lords from millenia past awakening. Real bad guys, who went too far trying to stamp out the Beastmen and adopted all of their enemy's evil (plus some tricks of their own). There are still people in Borea--men, evil men, who continue their ancient war with the Beastmen, and are now raising the dead of their past civilization to not only finally wipe out the scourge of their ancestral opponents, but conquer the world...
#13

havard

Jun 11, 2007 16:26:51
I'm thinking we should try to integrate the hordes of undead from the Western Alliance gaz into the picture somehow--continuity is important after all, but bearing that in mind...

Absolutely!

Instead of an artifact, how about we have some really, really, big, bad beastie? Something from outer space perhaps? This creature's malevolent/alien influence (it could be dead, but when it crashed into the ground it corrupted the land...) is what created the beastmen? Perhaps something from the Nightmare Realm that got 'stuck' in mystara? It's influence is so powerful that it changes the impact of magic/technology/reality around it, really separating the Borean Valley from the rest of the world.

Big bad beasties are fun! I dont think we should depart too much from the fact that Hel created the Beastmen. Obviously, the same magic could easily have spawned a sort of mega beast slumbering below the valley right now...

The Blackmoor humans might not have known of this when they first moved into the valley (and might not ever have been aware of it) but they knew of the powerful beastman nations that existed here, strengthened by some horrific 'magic' that made them the only serious challenger to Blackmooran dominance of the world. The humans set up shop to try to harness this power, but were corrupted by it, setting themselves up as gods and performing terrible rituals. Perhaps, the Great Reign of Fire maybe wasn't intended to destroy Blackmoor proper... perhaps it was intended to destroy these uber-nefarious colonies?

Keep in mind that the Great Rain of Fire was caused by unstable nuclear reactors of Blackmoor. James Mishler's version does have some sort of civil war happening though (madness-induced even).

As for the present day, I like the idea of the slumbering lords from millenia past awakening. Real bad guys, who went too far trying to stamp out the Beastmen and adopted all of their enemy's evil (plus some tricks of their own). There are still people in Borea--men, evil men, who continue their ancient war with the Beastmen, and are now raising the dead of their past civilization to not only finally wipe out the scourge of their ancestral opponents, but conquer the world...

Thanks. Food stuff!

Havard
#14

yakman

Jun 11, 2007 16:55:14
Big bad beasties are fun! I dont think we should depart too much from the fact that Hel created the Beastmen. Obviously, the same magic could easily have spawned a sort of mega beast slumbering below the valley right now...

Well... perhaps Hel created the beastmen, but they were super-charged by this beast when they entered the valley? I'm just thinking that "something" needs to make the Borean Valley different from the rest of the world, in order to twist magic and reality there, and artifacts are somewhat overplayed.

I'm thinking something like Lovecraft's Mountains of Madness + Warhammer's Chaos Lands + Burrough's Barsoom + TSR's Dark Sun = Borea
#15

happylarry

Jun 12, 2007 17:16:44
on the big bad beasties - surely an opportunity to unleash some of those Gargantuan creatures from thre companion set? Not too far from Norwold which is the only setting IIRC to have incorporated Gargantuan creaturtes (CM!)

Could Gargantua himself fit into the timeline?

Am liking the general feel of the area - presumably alot of the terrain will be dangerous in and of itself?

Did I miss a map?
#16

Hugin

Jun 12, 2007 20:54:33
Ya, I'll pop in and say the I like the feel you guys are creating for this area. Could the artifact idea be used in such a way that the actual temple itself is the entire artifact, or maybe just be endowed with powers like an artifact is?

The big bad beastie could also be a borrower. But since that is being considered in another thread maybe it's too much.
#17

yakman

Jun 13, 2007 11:03:19
As for 'big bad beasties' I think a clear distinction needs to be made, at least to clarify these rather early thoughts:

First, there are the 'created' big bad beasties--those who are warped and twisted by their proximity to the Borean Valley. These include the 'super-charged' beastmen who gave the Blackmoorans such a hard time, the rather inspired crystalline T-Rex that Eldersphinx described, and even the Blackmoorans who were twisted by their time in the Valley, as well as anything else that might be populated by the DM.

Second, there is the 'original' big bad beastie, which in my mind, should be a literal outer-being that in primordial days came to be in the Borean Valley. It's malevolent power spreads out through the Valley, corrupting and twisting the Valley's inhabitants. Perhaps it is a nightmare beast. Perhaps it is a fallen immortal of vast power. Perhaps it is something else...

What I think might be a good model is the Abyss from Planescape. The demon lords of the Abyss would make good models for the Blackmooran legacy wizards, and all the design for them has already been done.
#18

yakman

Jun 14, 2007 11:56:49
This stuff should also be incorporated somehow IMO:
http://pandius.com/urzud.html

I don't know about that. It doesn't really fit with the gazeteers--the Adri Varma plateau and all that. Obviously, it's not cookie-cutter, but it might be squeezed in somehow...
#19

eldersphinx

Jun 17, 2007 21:51:10
... yeeeow! This has come back to life! I'm so touched! ;)

As far as the general thoughts about Borea having incredibly powerful high-level nasties - well, sorta, IMHO. There are certainly powerful foes and monsters in Borea, as I conceived it - the fortress of Xacaras has several hundred (at least!) hydrax resident, the Select of Manicora *are* defrosted survivors of Old Blackmoor, and the Guardian of Bonewatch is probably something equivalent in power to a 150 HD Gargantuan Nightwing. So yes, there are definitely opportunities in Borea for characters of even Master level to throwdown and get some solid fights in.

What this shouldn't mean, I hope, is that Borea is too ferociously dangerous for anybody less than Companion level to adventure here. I'm aiming for pulp heroism and action-adventure, not survival-horror; there has to be room for peasant adventurers achieving heroism off raw luck, talent and guts; scantily-clad princesses (of either gender, mind you) to be rescued from durance vile; and scheming, incompetent viziers trying to spread lies, poison and whatnot as part of their malevolent plots. And for that, there need to be at least a few 'normal' cities, and other opportunities for low-level characters and adventurers in Borea.

Not, mind you, that low-levels in Borea won't spend a lot of their time running away from Big Nasties as fast as they can. But I personally approached my idea behind Borea with the notion that the Big Nasties weren't everywhere, and were often hedged in to a fairly small area (by terrain obstacles, or magical wards, or fear of angering other powers, or what have you) rather than running around and causing havoc.

More on this topic later. I'll see if I can dig up more of my old concept writeups!
#20

Hugin

Jun 18, 2007 8:46:19
I certainly agree with eldersphinx here that the area shouldn't be completely covered in uber-nasties. I think that there would be threats of all ranges but has a higher proportion of more powerful creatures than most places.

Even the odd roaming high level threat would exist, but as eldersphinx points out, the main clusters of these creatures stay in relatively pocketed areas. Could this be an area that the dragons of Wyrmsteeth prefer not to go...?
#21

yakman

Jun 18, 2007 10:20:52
I certainly agree with eldersphinx here that the area shouldn't be completely covered in uber-nasties. I think that there would be threats of all ranges but has a higher proportion of more powerful creatures than most places.

Even the odd roaming high level threat would exist, but as eldersphinx points out, the main clusters of these creatures stay in relatively pocketed areas. Could this be an area that the dragons of Wyrmsteeth prefer not to go...?

i agree--it shouldn't be for rookies, but for more powerful players. There's lower level encounters aplenty, but at the same time, the big bads should be really big, and really bad.

however, i don't think Borea should be 'regular' in terms of having a pleasant mix of humans and demi-humans living in semi-harmony, with external trade and politics as usual. I think we have enough of that in Mystara--let's look at the potentialities of having an uber-nasty realm, run by necromancers, ancient wizards, twisted villains, etc.. Real goodies are exceptionally sparse on the ground--and can't compete with the villains.

It's Conan's Hyborea, but it's Stygia. It's John Carter's Barsoom, but it's the Valley of Iss.