Cerebremancer To Weak for DS? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Cerebremancer To Weak for DS?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Zardnaar
Jan 15, 2007 18:36:31 Its been a few years now and the Mystic Theurge and Cerebremancer haven't exactly proven to be broken except perhaps on a few of the crazy builds in character optimisation usually when combined with a class that has a spell list that grants level 9 spells of 10 levels- such as Ur Priest. Personally I would like to see a dual progression arcane/psionmic PrC designed for DS that has a few class abilities even if its something basic like a bonus feat at level 1, 5 and 10. Such a PrC could perhaps be called an Ascendent and be designed for potential Dragons/Avangions.

Mystic Theurge is weak and the Cerebremancer is marginally better 90% ofd the time because Psions/Wizards both use intelligence for spells and psionics (ignoring Sorcerors, Psi Warriors as most of the time it will be a wiz/psion multiclass. In 3.5 years of 3.5 I've never seen a PC take either the Mystic Theurge or Cerebremancer PrC although I have seen a few Arcane Tricksters, and even Eldritch Knights which are also underpowered IMHO.
#2
Kamelion
Jan 15, 2007 19:00:42 In my experience the class is fine, assuming that you build it accordingly. You need to specialise, focussing the abilities of each class on one or two areas of expertise, no more. Where a wizard or psion can have an area of prime skill, with a broad base of supplementary powers (such as a mage who is mainly an illusionist, but also has a spread of combat, divination and defensive magics), a wizard/psion/cerebremancer needs to strip it right down. You already lose broad functionality through reduced numbers of feats, so you need to compensate with tight focus.

I played a character like this who was essentially a kineticist/wizard. I concentrated on combat powers, basically using my psionics to blow enemies up with gleeful impunity. My wizard spells were mainly conjurations, with a couple of personal defenses thrown in (shield, mage armor, for example). It rocked. On toast, might I add. Well, until the DM TPKed us in a fit of pique, that is, but that's DMs for you ;)

Focus. It's all about the focus. With that in mind, the class can rise to real prominence. Don't try to be the generalist. Specialise and command your niche.
#3
zombiegleemax
Jan 16, 2007 1:20:16 I actually prefer the Mind Mage from Dragon #112 (Or so, the one with the werewolf on the cover).
#4
dirk00001
Jan 16, 2007 11:03:19 The kineticist/wizard/cerebromancer in my game was fine, and I even went so far as to restrict PrC acquisition to 15th level (albeit characters went up a level almost every session that campaign). The character was underpowered up until he started taking cerebromancer levels, but as soon as that happened he became quite powerful, quite fast. I don't think the class is broken at all, but like Kamelion pointed out you need to focus each of the associated classes in order to make it work. But then again, when multiclassing in "caster" classes that's basically a must if you want an effective character, anyway.

As for mystic theurge, although I haven't played one yet (nor has anyone I know done so), next (non-DS) campaign I'm in I plan on playing a sorcerer/favored soul/mystic theurge or, possibly (although not nearly as likely) a bard/favored soul/mystic theurge. True, the level at which you can take the PrC goes up a few, so I'll be a few levels behind the power curve for awhile, but once the character's level is in the teens I think he'll be just fine. Again, it's a matter of specialization - this combo has the benefit of a single primary ability score, but that doesn't mean that there aren't other ways of putting the class to good use.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Zardnaar Jan 15, 2007 18:36:31	Its been a few years now and the Mystic Theurge and Cerebremancer haven't exactly proven to be broken except perhaps on a few of the crazy builds in character optimisation usually when combined with a class that has a spell list that grants level 9 spells of 10 levels- such as Ur Priest. Personally I would like to see a dual progression arcane/psionmic PrC designed for DS that has a few class abilities even if its something basic like a bonus feat at level 1, 5 and 10. Such a PrC could perhaps be called an Ascendent and be designed for potential Dragons/Avangions. Mystic Theurge is weak and the Cerebremancer is marginally better 90% ofd the time because Psions/Wizards both use intelligence for spells and psionics (ignoring Sorcerors, Psi Warriors as most of the time it will be a wiz/psion multiclass. In 3.5 years of 3.5 I've never seen a PC take either the Mystic Theurge or Cerebremancer PrC although I have seen a few Arcane Tricksters, and even Eldritch Knights which are also underpowered IMHO.
#2 Kamelion Jan 15, 2007 19:00:42	In my experience the class is fine, assuming that you build it accordingly. You need to specialise, focussing the abilities of each class on one or two areas of expertise, no more. Where a wizard or psion can have an area of prime skill, with a broad base of supplementary powers (such as a mage who is mainly an illusionist, but also has a spread of combat, divination and defensive magics), a wizard/psion/cerebremancer needs to strip it right down. You already lose broad functionality through reduced numbers of feats, so you need to compensate with tight focus. I played a character like this who was essentially a kineticist/wizard. I concentrated on combat powers, basically using my psionics to blow enemies up with gleeful impunity. My wizard spells were mainly conjurations, with a couple of personal defenses thrown in (shield, mage armor, for example). It rocked. On toast, might I add. Well, until the DM TPKed us in a fit of pique, that is, but that's DMs for you ;) Focus. It's all about the focus. With that in mind, the class can rise to real prominence. Don't try to be the generalist. Specialise and command your niche.
#3 zombiegleemax Jan 16, 2007 1:20:16	I actually prefer the Mind Mage from Dragon #112 (Or so, the one with the werewolf on the cover).
#4 dirk00001 Jan 16, 2007 11:03:19	The kineticist/wizard/cerebromancer in my game was fine, and I even went so far as to restrict PrC acquisition to 15th level (albeit characters went up a level almost every session that campaign). The character was underpowered up until he started taking cerebromancer levels, but as soon as that happened he became quite powerful, quite fast. I don't think the class is broken at all, but like Kamelion pointed out you need to focus each of the associated classes in order to make it work. But then again, when multiclassing in "caster" classes that's basically a must if you want an effective character, anyway. As for mystic theurge, although I haven't played one yet (nor has anyone I know done so), next (non-DS) campaign I'm in I plan on playing a sorcerer/favored soul/mystic theurge or, possibly (although not nearly as likely) a bard/favored soul/mystic theurge. True, the level at which you can take the PrC goes up a few, so I'll be a few levels behind the power curve for awhile, but once the character's level is in the teens I think he'll be just fine. Again, it's a matter of specialization - this combo has the benefit of a single primary ability score, but that doesn't mean that there aren't other ways of putting the class to good use.