Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ivid Feb 23, 2007 3:57:36	Hi all, CLICKY Pretty weak, if you ask me, but since it's free, it may be worth a look. Rafael
#2 Mortepierre Feb 23, 2007 10:42:06	:whatsthis
#3 ivid Feb 23, 2007 11:00:06	Actually, from what I was told by the BM crew from ZGG, there are far more BM/Greyhawk ties than they are with Mystara. But that doesn't make this bad adventure any better...
#4 Mortepierre Feb 24, 2007 3:58:00	:heehee I swear, Raf, you continually come up with new & funny smilies. I am sorely tempted to dub you the Smilies-Master at the FoS :P
#5 ivid Feb 24, 2007 6:51:12	:D Thank you! It's actually thanks to a firefox-plugin called smiley xtra 4. Pretty funny, especially if one is such a prolific forum-poster like me and you.
#6 havard Feb 24, 2007 14:24:19	Actually, from what I was told by the BM crew from ZGG, there are far more BM/Greyhawk ties than they are with Mystara. But that doesn't make this bad adventure any better... I disagree. Not contesting the GH Blackmoor link, but I think BM ties in well with both settings (though not at the same time). Keep in mind that almost every single Mystara product has some reference to Blackmoor. Ofcourse GH's advantage is that Blackmoor and GH are not separated by time as they are in Mystara. With the adventure, what's so bad about it? My main disappointment was that there are no references to Dave Arneson in there. Also, it doesn't seem very gentleman-like to give away a ToF adventure for free just when ZGG are about to publish their version of the adventure... Havard
#7 ivid Feb 24, 2007 15:41:24	I disagree. Not contesting the GH Blackmoor link, but I think BM ties in well with both settings (though not at the same time). Keep in mind that almost every single Mystara product has some reference to Blackmoor. Yes, but the references from Mystara to Blackmoor were constructed afterwards. The references to WoG were part of the original author's intention. Of course, from today's point of view, Mystara has most structural connections to published Blackmoor material, but the flair of the setting is very much Greyhawk, or "Original D&D's Known World" (before any setting structures were set up), at least to me. With the adventure, what's so bad about it? From my first glance, I think the plot is not well thought, and the whole cyborg thing misses the point of the original adventure's mood. Nothing bad about it *technically*, I just find the approach very boring. Again, this is just my personal taste, since I liked the original Supplement II more than I liked DA 2. Also, it doesn't seem very gentleman-like to give away a ToF adventure for free just when ZGG are about to publish their version of the adventure... Yes. I commented on this over at the ZG forum already. - However, the link between the adventures can be of some use at least.
#8 bill_lumberg Feb 24, 2007 15:59:46	Was the BBEG a vampire in the original or second version? I understand the need to have him exist beyond a human lifespan but I think it should be done in a less cliched manner.
#9 ranger_reg Feb 24, 2007 19:18:56	I thought Blackmoor is no longer part of Greyhawk. Gygax stole it from Arneson and plant it in Flanaess.
#10 Waldorf Feb 24, 2007 19:59:15	Will the real Blackmoor please stand up?
#11 ripvanwormer Feb 24, 2007 21:35:34	Was the BBEG a vampire in the original or second version? Not in the original, as far as I can tell. But then, he doesn't really have a "stat block" in the modern sense of the term. He could be just about anything.
#12 vormaerin Feb 24, 2007 23:05:17	When Gary was convinced to publish a game setting (he originally assumed that all DMs would want to make their own), he rewrote the various campaigns going on in that gaming group into the World of Greyhawk. His stuff, Len Lakofka's Lendor Island stuff, Rob Kuntz' stuff, and other things were used to flesh out the game world and a new map was written. The name Blackmoor was used knowingly as a reference to Dave Arneson's stuff, but I have no idea if Dave ever actively agreed to that like the other contributors did. But the original Blackmoor info in the WoG books didn't have much to do with DA's actual stuff as far as I can tell. It was just an land in the frozen north that was sparsely populated and surrounded by dangerous wilds. Blackmoor Castle and the City of the Gods were mentioned as legendary sites within the area. The little brown books Greyhawk and Blackmoor were both published by TSR in the early days, but they are really rules supplements with a bit of module attached rather than campaign worlds as we know them. Frankly, none of those guys (Rob, Gary, Len, Dave, etc) were particularly careful about IP and all of them got screwed by TSR or its successors at some point.
#13 ranger_reg Feb 24, 2007 23:46:40	Frankly, none of those guys (Rob, Gary, Len, Dave, etc) were particularly careful about IP and all of them got screwed by TSR or its successors at some point. Tsk. Tsk. Tsk. Only in America.
#14 vormaerin Feb 25, 2007 1:52:48	Hardly.
#15 ivid Feb 25, 2007 3:41:40	Was the BBEG a vampire in the original or second version? I understand the need to have him exist beyond a human lifespan but I think it should be done in a less cliched manner. Where's Havard when we need him? :P - Frankly, don't remember. Baron Fang is a mighty vampire, but he is part of the BlackmooTown dungeon complex. Apart from that, I really just forgot.
#16 havard Feb 25, 2007 15:32:17	Where's Havard when we need him? :P - Frankly, don't remember. Baron Fang is a mighty vampire, but he is part of the BlackmooTown dungeon complex. Apart from that, I really just forgot. Sorry I'm pretty sure the storyline about Stephen becoming a vampire is from the "Return of module". I assumed the reason for it was to boost his power. I agree that it isn't really necessary. Stephen should have enough in his arsenal with just tech and experience. Who knows how long these aliens live? As for the whole retrofitting of Blackmoor into Mystara, that's pretty much what Mystara is all about. A messy world for sure. The DA series are all firmly set in that setting, though easily adaptapted to Greyhawk for sure. Havard
#17 ranger_reg Feb 26, 2007 0:48:34	Hardly. Okay, China, too. :evillaugh
#18 vormaerin Feb 26, 2007 2:48:38	Most of the world doesn't have the IP protection to even make it possible to keep (or lose) control of your material in the fashion that occurred. If you want to sit around and make wisecracks, its pretty easy to point out that in much of the world that does have good IP, the bureaucracy and government interference is such that founding TSR in the first place would have been ten times harder. So I suppose its true they couldn't have lost their rights in a lot of Europe or whereever, because they'd've never been able to start the company in the first place. The creative side of the company was not the one bringing the bulk of the initial capital. Anyway, this is pretty much totally off topic so I'm going to leave it with that. Dave Arneson didn't get the prestige he deserved out of it, but there's not much basis to say his stuff was "stolen". His name is Blackmoor supplement and the DA modules, after all.
#19 bill_lumberg Feb 26, 2007 16:14:31	Ripvanwormer and Havard: Thank you very much.