The how was never really specified and he's likely concerned with other matters rather than the Dark Powers.
In the megadventure Die Vecna, Die he managed to break free from Ravenloft and do some other 'impossible' things with little explanation and tried to remake the universe in his image.
The how was never really specified and he's likely concerned with other matters rather than the Dark Powers.
I also wonder how he got into Sigil. Only one other diety managed to do so, Aoskar, god of Portals, whom the lady of pain destroyed when he got there.
I also wonder how he got into Sigil. Only one other diety managed to do so, Aoskar, god of Portals, whom the lady of pain destroyed when he got there.
If memory serves, Vecna's successful breach into Sigil was due to some metaphysical "cheating" of sorts: he was in between divine states at the time of his entry, having absorbed Iuz's essence, and then temporarily relinquishing his divinity before he used it to increase his "rank" as a power.
And FWIW, Aoskar was not destroyed for entering Sigil. He had in fact resided in the city for a considerable amount of time, and the Lady's devastating attack on him, his temple and followers was the result of his power base swelling to the point where he might in fact begin to threaten her rule over the city (the triggering event being said to have been the dabus Fell declaring himself a priest of the god of portals).
If memory serves, Vecna's successful breach into Sigil was due to some metaphysical "cheating" of sorts: he was in between divine states at the time of his entry, having absorbed Iuz's essence, and then temporarily relinquishing his divinity before he used it to increase his "rank" as a power.
And FWIW, Aoskar was not destroyed for entering Sigil. He had in fact resided in the city for a considerable amount of time, and the Lady's devastating attack on him, his temple and followers was the result of his power base swelling to the point where he might in fact begin to threaten her rule over the city (the triggering event being said to have been the dabus Fell declaring himself a priest of the god of portals).
Do we know anything about the history of Sigil? Was Aoskar the one who created it in the first place? Before planescape and Sigil there was said to be three lights of balance in the center of the Outlands/Concordant Opposition one for each mediator in Nirvana/Mechanus.
It's said in the 2E outer planes monstrous compendium that the mediators were created by the powers of creation, whoever they are, and they were created because the outlands was to be the home on neutral powers, but each put in thier own influence and caused it be unbalanced, so they created Mechanus and the mediators to keep it balanced. Also, I've heard conflicting stories of whether or not dragon is official, but one issue with an article called politics of hell says that the nine hells was the first plane ever to exist.
I remember when I was back on Prodigy in 93. Someone told me that the origin of the multiverse was every other plane except the outer planes was broken off from the prime when time began, and the outer planes were made by the high god, or the force that surrounds all of reality. I initially accepted this, but later someone told me that the origin of the AD&D multiverse has never been explained.
Although that 'friend in WotC' idea sounds pretty plausable.
You must remember that Vecna is nearly an overdeity, and thus wouldn't need much explanation for escaping. How he would get trapped in the first place is beyond me.
Although that 'friend in WotC' idea sounds pretty plausable.
He is a demi god in domains of dread, and where does it say he is an overdiety?
1. There is an author who wrote about him.
2. He enters Ravenloft without that author's knowledge or consent.
3. That author finds out and retcons him.
4. He never was in Ravenloft (and theoretically could override the Lady of Pain's power, etc.)
So it's more important to have "an overprotective and touchy author" not necessarily in WotC.
Under this theory, authors have more power than gods, which is pretty darn sweet.
You must remember that Vecna is nearly an overdeity, and thus wouldn't need much explanation for escaping
Uh, no. The Serpent, the only "deity-like" creature Vecna willingly worships (so to speak) might qualify as "overdeity" but Vecna hardly is (though I am willing to bet he would love to achieve that level of power).
And how Vecna got trapped in RL is described (sort of) in the 2e GH module Vecna Lives!
Uh, no. The Serpent, the only "deity-like" creature Vecna willingly worships (so to speak) might qualify as "overdeity" but Vecna hardly is (though I am willing to bet he would love to achieve that level of power).
And how Vecna got trapped in RL is described (sort of) in the 2e GH module Vecna Lives!
It says in domains of dread the mists got him through the link to his avatar, even though they could not go directly to the gray waste to get him, cause it's an outer plane and for some reason the mists can't go there.
I can offer this thought the quote from Mephistopheles in NwN " Truly but the are rules and rules within the rules that govern the very laws of existence (...)"
Thats how you beat the dark powers by going on the super big metaphysical level finding every possible loophole and the rules within the loophole till a trick can be found. (Good Luck)
Thats all I have...
Worse, Suddenly, Azalin COULD become an epic spellcaster, The sorcerer fiend of the Shadow Rift could escape his prison, guys like EbonBane and the darklord of the Avonleigh would suddenly become true horrors on every material world.
Azalin would long have become an epic spellcaster without his curse. What about the Red wizard of Hazlan:P
and his plan to destroy every Rashemi in existence...Suddenly you see why it really is necessary to keep these guys trapped...
Anyway just musing about...
Personally I think a good adventure would be around the time of unparrelled darkness. Basically, the Darklords curses are temporarily lifted. Malochio would still be stuck because of the vistani ritual. But without his curse, Azalin could definetly work a way to trap the fiend and force him to take him home...
Worse, Suddenly, Azalin COULD become an epic spellcaster, The sorcerer fiend of the Shadow Rift could escape his prison, guys like EbonBane and the darklord of the Avonleigh would suddenly become true horrors on every material world.
Azalin would long have become an epic spellcaster without his curse. What about the Red wizard of Hazlan:P
Suddenly you see why it really is necessary to keep these guys trapped...
Anyway just musing about...
Speaking of epic lords--I've been tinkering with a cluster idea involving an extremely diminished Elder Evil, an aboleth savant (with a former dl epic druid that's now a ghost), and an epic planetouched wizard. I tinker with it when the mood strikes me as I have my own low-level campaign to worry about at the moment.
If memory serves, Vecna's successful breach into Sigil was due to some metaphysical "cheating" of sorts: he was in between divine states at the time of his entry, having absorbed Iuz's essence, and then temporarily relinquishing his divinity before he used it to increase his "rank" as a power.And FWIW, Aoskar was not destroyed for entering Sigil. He had in fact resided in the city for a considerable amount of time, and the Lady's devastating attack on him, his temple and followers was the result of his power base swelling to the point where he might in fact begin to threaten her rule over the city (the triggering event being said to have been the dabus Fell declaring himself a priest of the god of portals).
Ever play Planescape Torment? In it you meet a priest of Aoskar in an old ruined temple, and have the option of worshipping him. If you do, she mazes you. Aoskar must still be alive in that game, or there wouldn't be a priest of him around, so I wonder where he resides.
Personally I think a good adventure would be around the time of unparrelled darkness. Basically, the Darklords curses are temporarily lifted. Malochio would still be stuck because of the vistani ritual. But without his curse, Azalin could definetly work a way to trap the fiend and force him to take him home...
Worse, Suddenly, Azalin COULD become an epic spellcaster.
In my campaign arcs that involve the Grand Conjunction, Azalin does escape and become near-epic level. (Depending on the PCs' power levels, I add at least two levels and sometimes more.) In the first campaign arc I tried, this happened instantaneously when he left Ravenloft, as the accumulated magical experimenting of his residence in the Demiplane suddenly resulted in a very large amount of XP.
In later re-runs of the same arc, I toyed with the idea of setting a limited Oerth campaign, where Azalin takes up residence not far from Knurl, where he once lived, and spent a fair bit of time researching - and hence the levels. This approach also allows the Grand Conjunction to last awhile longer, terrorizing other prime material planes as darklords and Ravenloft's background laws of physics take hold for a substantial period of time.
Ever play Planescape Torment? In it you meet a priest of Aoskar in an old ruined temple, and have the option of worshipping him. If you do, she mazes you. Aoskar must still be alive in that game, or there wouldn't be a priest of him around, so I wonder where he resides.
Fell still worships Aoskar. It doesn't mean that Aoskar isn't dead. The Lady mazes people for worshipping Aoskar, or having holy objects of Aoskar's faith.
It says in domains of dread the mists got him through the link to his avatar, even though they could not go directly to the gray waste to get him, cause it's an outer plane and for some reason the mists can't go there.
The mists are some kind of extension or perversion of the ethereal mists (I think). Since the ethereal doesn't touch the outer planes, the mists have no power there.
As for Vecna, he reached the critical threshhold of DvR 6, at which point the Dark Powers are unable (or unwilling) to hold an entity any further.
The mists are some kind of extension or perversion of the ethereal mists (I think). Since the ethereal doesn't touch the outer planes, the mists have no power there.
As for Vecna, he reached the critical threshhold of DvR 6, at which point the Dark Powers are unable (or unwilling) to hold an entity any further.
Everything you just said strikes directly at the heart of the Ravenloft setting's "DM's prerogative!" section. The Mists are definitely an extension (or at least a tool) of the Dark Powers, and the exact power relationship or comparison between the Park Powers and a deity has never been made clear.
I don't mean to criticize your interpretation, which is perfectly fine, mechanically. Just wanted to emphasize the DM's choice nature of that call.
TSR had to cut out so many important details because they were simply TOP SECRET.
:pile:- Escape from Demiplane of Dread
- Merge avatars
- Become greater god
- Enter Sigil
- Prevent Lady of Pain from interfering with evil scheme
- Remake Multiverse in own image
- Breakfast at Milliways
(sorry, couldn't keep it!)
If "The Serpent" is an entity at all and not just an euphemism for the power of magic.
In my game "The Serpent" is Asmodeus/Ahriman, and so are the "Dark Powers". Vecna is his/its toy.
Ahriman gains power from absorbing the essences of those who have given into dispair and lost all traces of faith in anything. The more powerful the faithless individual, the more power he stands to gain. Causing a god to give into that kind of dispair (by taking on the role of the serpent, getting vecna to rely upon and trust it utterly, then abandoning him at just the right moment) would mean a life force of phenomenal power to eat up...a feast as opposed to the scraps he has been getting over the eons. Might go a long way to restoring Ahriman and allowing him to break free of his prison.
In my game "The Serpent" is Asmodeus/Ahriman, and so are the "Dark Powers". Vecna is his/its toy.
Ahriman gains power from absorbing the essences of those who have given into dispair and lost all traces of faith in anything. The more powerful the faithless individual, the more power he stands to gain. Causing a god to give into that kind of dispair (by taking on the role of the serpent, getting vecna to rely upon and trust it utterly, then abandoning him at just the right moment) would mean a life force of phenomenal power to eat up...a feast as opposed to the scraps he has been getting over the eons. Might go a long way to restoring Ahriman and allowing him to break free of his prison.
Aw, man, Guide to Hell.