(of what size I would ask? If they were the size of asia each that would make the planet enormous and heavy gravity as well)
And, of Raistlin, was it ever hinted at that perhaps he did not destroy the dark queen and the other deities of Krynn, that perhaps he just defeated and dispersed them, and kept them dispersed.
In the hypothetical future, the possible one that never happened, how was he able to absorb the dark queen's power, making himself a deity? Astivus said he would have become a deity more powerful than either Paladine or Takhisis, but how would this be possible, if he ONLY absorbed Tak? Also, I'm glad they didn't make Astivus an avatar of Gilean. In the alternate future Raistlin destroyed/dispersed every god of Krynn, so if Gilean was killed Astivus would be dead too, either that or that would all that would be left of Gilean, and easily killed by Raist.
And in the Legends series by defeating Takhisis Raistlin became a greater level god giving him the ability to pretty much wipe the floor with any lesser gods. Plus in the Legends source book it says that Raistlin hunted down each god untill he faced Paladine himself.... You should check it out.
And in the Legends series by defeating Takhisis Raistlin became a greater level god giving him the ability to pretty much wipe the floor with any lesser gods. Plus in the Legends source book it says that Raistlin hunted down each god untill he faced Paladine himself.... You should check it out.
I know he became a deity by defeating her, I was just asking how, what was the process by which he assimilated her power into himself, and where did he learn he could? And I also knew that he killed Paladine last, but what's the Legends source book? I thought this info was in Test of the Twins.
And, for future reference Mulhull, his name is Astinus with an n.;)
It is a great book to have. Every DL and Raistlin fan needs to add it to their collection.
Honestly, every DL fan should have a copy of each DL title... simply for the fun of owning em all and read the entire collection once in a while ;)
So what title are you missing? Come on, you gotta be missing one, what is it? Tales of Uncle Trapspringer, Lord Toede, Hederick the Theocrat? Which one?
Not missing a single one, not even the young readers editions (well, Warrior's Blood just came out today, so I don't have that yet).
There is only one book I started and never finished..."The Dark Queen" (just because, IMO, it was not a very well written book).
Though one day, I would like to try to read The Legend of Huma.
I kind of stay away from Rabe's writing. It doenst mesh with previous Dragonlance history, i.e. Sturm Brightblade used Humas' Lance at the Battle of the High Clerist's Tower, Raistlin taught Palin magic, and the sentences are really simple. I feel that I am reading a kid's book when I read her stuff.
Like I've said before, I can't stand reading anything that doesn't have the original companions in it. i can barely read something not written by Weis or Hickman.
Though one day, I would like to try to read The Legend of Huma.
DUDE, IMO this is a MUST READ!!! Great book with awesome writing and much needed history. Richard is a great person too (had the chance to meet him at a book signing and we just chatted for like an hour while he did his signings). "The Minotaur Wars" trilogy is quite good too.
Personally, I can't read a book filled to the brim with minotaurs. I could barely get through The Companions.
Like, the other day, when I was reading Dragons of Spring Dawning, I got to the part where Tika and Tas reached the door in the tower and Tas sprung the trap, and I felt a lump in my throat. I seriously thought I would cry. That ever happen to you guys?
At the end of Legends and also in the second of the War of Souls book with the Princess scene.
Oh yeah, I got it at both of those too. That whole Battle of Qualinesti with Beryl was bad. And there was when Silvanesti got attacked by minotaurs.
I was very disappointe when Dalamar and Palin died so quickly, I rather had a magic-battle between the 2 wizards and Mina. (to bad they had lost there magic at that moment:P )
And I definitely had tears in my eyes when Laurana perished as well as all the other elven-people and dwarfs in the city.
But still I would had been very happy if Mina had died at the end of the last book of the War of souls trilogy. I really HATE Mina
:D. I would never followed her!Dont say that too loud, Lance might take offense.
Just two more chapters left for me to read in Dragons of a Vanished Moon!
Whipped because of Mina or whipped because I get choked up so often?
I will revenge everyone that has been kill by her hands.
My magical power is match more powerful than her powers.
Just tell me 3 good reasons why I would belief or follow her or
give me one VERY good reason why I wouldn't kill her.
srry lanceReaver I don't want to hurt you because you are a friend
but she has to go, that wicked witch Mina.
Havard
HeyDarth, have you heard from Lance?
Is there really no map showing the different continents of Krynn in relation to one another?
Havard
Yes there is...and here it is http://www.dlnexus.com/lexicon/13099.aspx It is completely unofficial but everything seems to be in the correct spots.
:evillaughYes there is...and here it is http://www.dlnexus.com/lexicon/13099.aspx It is completely unofficial but everything seems to be in the correct spots.
Just what I was looking for. Great!
I didn't know Adlatum was that large...
Thanks!
Havard
Didn't the other gods of Krynn have a role in the Dark Queen's downfall, it says the wrath of the gods "Would ring down, having the Queen appear in all her majesty on Krynn" or something like that. That she came to Krynn in her true form (though this is strange since on Hallowed Ground, it's planescape I know, says gods in thier true forms kill be presence alone) this infuriated them and they attacked at the same time Raistlin did.
Anyone ever think of running a game in the alternate future Raistlin created?
They won't say exactly how this was accomplished (which is perfectly expected and acceptable).
They do however go beyond this by explicitly stating that all explanations so far offered up by the community as well as all possible explanations are incorrect.
A bit of a logical inconsistancy here, as well as being unnecessary and overreaching.
The most popular and reasonable explanations include:
1) The other Gods beat Takhisis down or took her most of the way down, and Raistlin just snuck in at the last moment and absconded with her divinity (this argument still requires another explanation for this last step and this explanation usually lessens the significance of Raistlin's character and power as well as reflecting poorly on the intelligence/wisdom of the Gods).
2) The other Gods ended up actually demoting Takhisis for the transgression of entering the world and then elevated Raistlin to maintain the balance. This explanation reflects extremely poorly on the intelligence and wisdom of the Gods.
3) Raistlin was actually capable of defeating Takhisis on his own (depending on what powers Raistlin is purported to have and the specific limitations/weaknesses of the Gods, this requires additional explanations as to how Raistlin discovered and capitolized on these powers/weaknesses).
4) Raistlin utilized powers innate to star spirits (the mortal races) that are different and potentially more powerful than those of the Gods, albeit almost never realized or actualized to beat the Gods. These could include but are not limited to the transcendance of the rules of Magic (transcend vancian mechanics), Time (change the timeline so it was actually possible for a different outcome), and Divinity (become resistant to the power of a God on their own plane, and potentially be able to defeat them directly on the prime material plane).
5) Raistlin utilized epic ambient magic (to which the gods may be mortally vulnerable). We have evidence that ambient magic is capable of affecting them to some degree (much more than focused magic at any rate). This could have involved a Transcendance of Magic as noted in #4 above, but may also have leveraged the Greygem or some other item...
I prefer and recommend a combination of explanations 3, 4, and 5.
That is why he couldn't just use the portal in the present, when it was in his tower, but had to get involved in that dwarf war to get to the portal instead.
Under normal circumstances he would have had nochance of defeating the queen. (Let alone absorbing her power)
And considering who we are talking about. Once he realised that there was a point in time where he would have a chance to become a god, it was obious that he would take that chance.
A bit of a logical inconsistancy here, as well as being unnecessary and overreaching.
I think it's a bit of a stretch to say it's overreaching, personally!
As to the various theories, none of them are really on the mark, so that's why we don't say "yes that's the one."
Cheers,
Cam
Anyway that is my theory.
How does he "absorb" her powers? That's a plot device. He does, at anyrate, and his uniqueness of being a divine mortal allows him to act outside the laws of balance established by the Highgod. Also he made a pact with Hiddikuel and Chemosh to keep them around as long as they assisted him in his campaign against the other gods. So he wasn't alone in his campaign against the other gods, until later on after he's destroyed many other gods and "absorberd their divinity. Later he finds out that Hiddikuel and Chemosh have actually been siphoning off some of his power or the power of the gods he defeats, increasing their own power, so he destroys them.
As far as how many continents there are on Krynn, there are 3. Those being Ansalon, Taladas, Chroane, Irina-Carinthia (I know I butchered that one). There are so other substantial landmasses and Island chains. Those being; The Dragon Isles, Isle of Gargath, Spine of Taladas, and one more I cannot remember. There are some fandom continents as well, Adalatum and ODL, and everyone elses homebrewed continents. From what I remember Ansalon in slightly larger than Australia, until the 5th Age, when TSR/WotC decided to increase Krynn's size be threefold.
This would have been no secret to the WoHS as they have the records of Takhisis entrance into Krynn during the 3rd Dragon War when Huma was able to wound Takhisis with a dragonlance.
The Takhisis that Huma fought was an aspect, too. In fact, the gods can't appear on the Mortal Plane without creating an aspect in which to invest their power. Granted, they could in theory attempt to create one in which as much of their power was physically and divinely possible was invested, which is what Raistlin was hoping to achieve; aspects that are harmed by divinely-blessed or divinely-wrought weapons channel the "pain" through to the god him or herself, hence why Huma (backed by Paladine) managed to overcome and exact an oath from Takhisis (whose aspect was gravely injured).
Cheers,
Cam
What is the difference between an aspect and an avatar?
We decided not to use Deities and Demigods for Dragonlance, which means we don't use avatars. By definition, in 3.5 an avatar is a weaker version of a god that appears or manifests on the Material Plane and its statistics are based on the god's statistics. Since Dragonlance gods don't have statistics, we instead went with the concept of aspects, which are creatures that have the aspect template applied to them.
For the purposes of the novels and short stories, any mention of "avatar" actually indicates an aspect. Fizban, Dougan Redhammer, every appearance of Chemosh and Zeboim and Majere in the Dark Disciple trilogy, etc are all aspects.
D&D now uses the term "aspect" as well, but usually it's a kind of weaker avatar without any divine rank, separate from the god and usually independent or free-willed. That wouldn't quite equate with how we do it, although when a god creates an aspect, he or she does gain a certain degree of free will simply because he is acting through a mortal body.
Cheers,
Cam
What is the difference between an aspect and an avatar?
The best I can tell is Avatars were the 2nd Ed term and Aspects are the 3rd Ed term.
To Cam. I'm royally confused now. I thought that Takhisis has been trying to have her full divine self enter the world all the various times. The oath Huma was able to exact from her was that she wouldn't enter the world until it was broken (or something akin to that). To my understanding, that oath didn't prevent her from manifesting an Aspect/Avatar, only that she herself couldn't enter the world. How could she awaken the dragons and plant the foundation stone of the temple of Istar unless she was able to manifest an aspect? It just doesn't make any sense to say that she's always been trying to only manifest an aspect of herself, when she can clearly do that anytime she wants (the Dark Warrior and Arikiakan).
Now I cannot explain why she was blocked when the green gemstone man's sister died (cannot remember the real name).
The real question is why was it so important to takhisis to be able to manifest an aspect of herself in the world. One can only assume that like all dictators, she was paranoid and detested relying on mortals to enforce her will, or perhaps she simply enjoyed being able to directly affect the world. :D :D
What is the difference between an aspect and an avatar?
NM, I didn't realize the post went to a 3rd page before I posted and this is already answered.
My understanding is that during Huma's War, Takhisis was able to bring her whole and true self onto this plane and that is what Huma defeated. I think I read that in the Legends books.
That's what it said once, but the way we're describing it now is in line with the growth of the continuity and with how Margaret and Tracy look at it.
Cheers,
Cam
Doesnt that take away some of the epic nature of what Huma actually did though?
Nope. You want to try taking on the ultimate aspect of a goddess? No? OK.
Cheers,
Cam
That is a matter of opinion, which I do not agree with you, Cam. It is much more impressive to defeat the goddess herself than an aspect that may or may not have had much to do with the original.
Fair enough. It's a big enough world that we can all share our own opinions on it.
Cheers,
Cam
Oh yeah, I got it at both of those too. That whole Battle of Qualinesti with Beryl was bad. And there was when Silvanesti got attacked by minotaurs.
I think it’s great that Silvanesti got taken over by the minotaurs; I never liked them and think the xenophobic elves deserve what they get. They turned their backs on the world, now they have to face it and find a new place in it so maybe this make them truly appreciate what they have and what they lost; Weis and Hickman seem to like things like that; always making people to see their faults and sink or swim in dealing with them.