I'm going to DM a mystaran pbem at the SC c. 900 AC (it's a portuguese pbem, but everyone are invited, I can translate actions into portuguese if needed ;) ) and I need a map for the region for this period. And thus, I started mapping...
Then, I got to the old Great Escarpment problem, and decided to use VotPA as the "most canon" source, since RS have indeed a LOT of mistakes and odd things... anyway, I plan to use most of RS references as possible: Vastrovek is just there south Kastr; Narvich, Bukovosko and Brugzol might be out there, at the Konumtali Savannah; Sandros Valley is that valley just north Sevlievo; and Mt. Hupluk could well be that vulcan north of Kosovsko.
Anyway, the biggest problem was (and still is) Rio Copos, since it cuts the Highlands of the Pycts in two, in the first place, and even VotPA regional maps (Robrenn and Eusdria) disagree about where it splits.
I tried to conciliate VotPA, RS, X5 and used much of Thorf's interpretation of RS maps (and also used many of Thibault's)
That's the final result:
Another version, not that (RS) canon:
I didn't used the best map editor and thus the map isn't precise for coastlines and rivers. Still, I guess you guys can see what I'm thinking.
I was hoping Culture20 would made his version of this map before me for using at the pbem, but since he didn't continued his project (or at least no longer gave us any news about it ;) ), I'm making my own version.
What do you think about it, guys?
Wow! I forgot all about that. I should open those files up again.
Please do! I'm really interested in compare our notes ;)
I did something similar for the Orc's Head Peninsula, for which no 8 miles/hex map existed, so I got creative. (Which I get mixed reviews on... some people just won't accept things that didn't come from the original writers. Oh well.)
My maps on Thibalt's site are under the nom de plume of "IronWolf".
I did want to include you point of view for the region too, but unfortunately I can no longer open your maps at Thibalt's site
But I did use them a lot while DMing my old SC campaign, much before Thorf did his great maps. So, I have to say thanks, you saved my campaign! And you maps are also great too ;)
But I guess Thorf might had used your maps for his own version of the SC, which means that this map I made indirectly was based on yours
Still, I want to take a look at your maps again, especially that OHP part ;)
Hi Adamantyr
I did want to include you point of view for the region too, but unfortunately I can no longer open your maps at Thibalt's site
But I did use them a lot while DMing my old SC campaign, much before Thorf did his great maps. So, I have to say thanks, you saved my campaign! And you maps are also great too ;)
But I guess Thorf might had used your maps for his own version of the SC, which means that this map I made indirectly was based on yours
Still, I want to take a look at your maps again, especially that OHP part ;)
Yeah, it looks like Thibalt's site is gone. So just give me a valid e-mail and I'll send you everything I have all zipped up.
Glad to hear someone got some use from them.
Actually, his site is will there, and better than never
http://www.mystara.fr/
But I still can't open your maps at there, unfortunately
But what do you guys think about the map? Did I exaggerated anything, or should had done anything different?
And what do you think about the Pycts? They inhabit both plateaux? Or pehaps there is a different goblinoid tribe at the northern one?
Another thing that we should consider is that the "Dankut Camp" now is in the lowlands, and the "Kuttai and Dankut Camp" is in the highlands... I guess the best option here should be reversing them, so the Dankut stay up and the Kuttai stay down
I think you should try to view the maps on the webpage again. I didn't have any problems. However, the site did seem slightly slow for a high speed internet connection.
--Ray.
Love the map. What's the hex editor that you are using? I can tell that it isn't Hex Mapper.
Thanks!
It's Wilderness Mapper, but I had to make that cactus hexes myself and paint some desertic hexes with different colours.
I think you should try to view the maps on the webpage again. I didn't have any problems. However, the site did seem slightly slow for a high speed internet connection.
I tried again and again it didn't open...
But if it's slow, pehaps it isn't just me, after all
Thoft's work pretty much put mine to shame, unfortunately. A larger resolution and anti-aliasing makes that easy enough. I did write a C# program a few years back in college to assemble maps using the techniques I did by hand, but by then, no one was interested. That and it was far from finished...
You may have used one of my old maps for some of your extrapolations...
I know for a fact that I'm using your files for my stuff (cause you gave them to me). ;)
Okay, time to tie something to my finger so I remember to get those files when I go home tonight.
Thoft's work pretty much put mine to shame, unfortunately.
He did a great job indeed, but you did as well, your maps are great ;)
I did write a C# program a few years back in college to assemble maps using the techniques I did by hand, but by then, no one was interested. That and it was far from finished...
That sounds interesting! Can you speak a little more about it?
Okay, time to tie something to my finger so I remember to get those files when I go home tonight.
Hehe
He did a great job indeed, but you did as well, your maps are great ;)
Thanks
That sounds interesting! Can you speak a little more about it?
It was a UI design class, so we were making C# programs, which would run like a standard Windows program with a menu bar and other stuff. So I decided to create a map generation program. The original scope would have included a complete "paint" program, but I never finished that part. Plotting hexes, though, did work, and I instigated a "layer" system so that you could have layers of bitmaps, allowing you to have water, political boundaries, and other features on separate layers for quick and easy editing.
I actually ran into one headache... which was that the raw BMP's were too freaking huge. The map of Glantri, for example, was so large that the drawing tools were very time-inefficient. One of the frustrations with C# was the lack of access to the tool structures... they were designed for generic graphics plotting, and I could probably have optimized them for the given task to speed it up a bit.
Anyway, by the time I finished, I found out that someone else had a program called "Hex Mapper", so that created some confusion. Also, because it's in C#, it requires the .NET framework (and Windows) to run. So I just shelved it and let it gather dust. At least I can use it as code samples.
Thanks
And thanks for the maps, just recieved them
Indeed, looks like that we do agree with many deatils, some that I got from Thorf's map and others that we both got directly from canon (south Saragón steppes and grasslands; west Torreón hills, close to Rio Frio)
BTW, somtehing I always wanted to ask, what is the different between those two steppe types?
It was a UI design class, so we were making C# programs, which would run like a standard Windows program with a menu bar and other stuff. So I decided to create a map generation program. The original scope would have included a complete "paint" program, but I never finished that part. Plotting hexes, though, did work, and I instigated a "layer" system so that you could have layers of bitmaps, allowing you to have water, political boundaries, and other features on separate layers for quick and easy editing.
I actually ran into one headache... which was that the raw BMP's were too freaking huge. The map of Glantri, for example, was so large that the drawing tools were very time-inefficient. One of the frustrations with C# was the lack of access to the tool structures... they were designed for generic graphics plotting, and I could probably have optimized them for the given task to speed it up a bit.
Anyway, by the time I finished, I found out that someone else had a program called "Hex Mapper", so that created some confusion. Also, because it's in C#, it requires the .NET framework (and Windows) to run. So I just shelved it and let it gather dust. At least I can use it as code samples.
Sounds like your map editor is actually better than Wilderness Mapper, you did a quite nice work with it! And I do use a lot Paint (especially for that Rio Copos map... each steppe hex was repainted with a different colour, since the original one was too close to the grassland green...
and it's actually two maps combined, Wilderness Mapper has a single, limited map size... And there was also another problem, Wilderness doesn't have that cactus scrub hex, I had to create it at Paint and fix the map...)-If I picked the right place where Rio Copos turns west at Guadalante, it doesn't contradict RS map, sinde that label appears after this point (okay, it does contardict the map a lot, since the river doesn't continue west at there, but still...).
-If Rio Copos is the one coming from the west, what's the name of that one coming from north? One idea is that it's name is Rio Guadalante. All the names starting with "Guad" should be river names (Rio Guadiana and Guadalimas being good examples), and Guadalante seens to mean "River Ante" (Guad Al-Ante). Estado de Guadalante indeed clains more of Rio Guadalante than Rio Copos, BTW.
-I always wondered about that small desert within the steppes region, so close to forests from both sides and with a small wood insie of it... Should this be some sort of magical desert, or have a magical explanation? Pehaps that trees are actually an oasis?
And thanks for the maps, just recieved them
Indeed, looks like that we do agree with many deatils, some that I got from Thorf's map and others that we both got directly from canon (south Saragón steppes and grasslands; west Torreón hills, close to Rio Frio)
BTW, somtehing I always wanted to ask, what is the different between those two steppe types?
Just the color.
I thought that it was too mono-color in the region, so I colored the higher steppes a yellowish-green to differentiate them. That's also why the badlands and hills are "reddish" over in the Savage Baronies as well... color considerations.Sounds like your map editor is actually better than Wilderness Mapper, you did a quite nice work with it! And I do use a lot Paint (especially for that Rio Copos map... each steppe hex was repainted with a different colour, since the original one was too close to the grassland green...
Yeah, I hand-drew all my own tiles. And I hand-crafted the rivers as well, and personally added the outlines to the text so that they would stand out better against the colors. I had a lot of time on my hands at the time.
However, it's important to keep in mind that a mapping program really should only serve one of two purposes:
1) Create completely new maps from scratch
2) Replicate existing maps
You can have map programs that do both, but you're splitting your focus doing so, and reducing the number of features and tools. A new map creator would supply tools to randomly generate terrain, rivers, and coastlines. A replicating map editor is more focused on controls, making sure you have all the tools necessary to recreate what's on an existing map.
I'm in software development, and my thinking right now runs more towards a new map generation system... something that could, if you asked it to, completely craft a campaign world from the ground up. Maybe even connect with a database to generate complete lists of random NPC's and stuff. Kinda like the one program B.A. was using in Knights of the Dinner Table... a real wish list, I think, for many DM's.
Just the color.
Hehe, I see
I thought it could be that the green ones were more fertile or something like that.
That's also why the badlands and hills are "reddish" over in the Savage Baronies as well... color considerations.
That's indeed a nice touch, I'll surely include it for the next versios of the map ;)
Yeah, I hand-drew all my own tiles. And I hand-crafted the rivers as well, and personally added the outlines to the text so that they would stand out better against the colors. I had a lot of time on my hands at the time.
Indeed, I know how time-consuming this can be, hehe
However, it's important to keep in mind that a mapping program really should only serve one of two purposes:
1) Create completely new maps from scratch
2) Replicate existing maps
You can have map programs that do both, but you're splitting your focus doing so, and reducing the number of features and tools. A new map creator would supply tools to randomly generate terrain, rivers, and coastlines. A replicating map editor is more focused on controls, making sure you have all the tools necessary to recreate what's on an existing map.
I'm in software development, and my thinking right now runs more towards a new map generation system... something that could, if you asked it to, completely craft a campaign world from the ground up. Maybe even connect with a database to generate complete lists of random NPC's and stuff. Kinda like the one program B.A. was using in Knights of the Dinner Table... a real wish list, I think, for many DM's.
Hey, that's actually a great indea, indeed! I tried using Civ3 for random and realist maps, but that's not the same thing, and it's not that easy to import it to a map editor or even to Paint...
I can say I'll be the first DM to say to you a big "Thank you" :D ;)
You may have used one of my old maps for some of your extrapolations... Thibalt did have some of my stuff up on his site. I extrapolated a hex map from the Red Steel box set maps that lacked hexes.
I did something similar for the Orc's Head Peninsula, for which no 8 miles/hex map existed, so I got creative. (Which I get mixed reviews on... some people just won't accept things that didn't come from the original writers. Oh well.)
My maps on Thibalt's site are under the nom de plume of "IronWolf".
cool I can consolidate you on the Vaults too, can I?
Yeah, it looks like Thibalt's site is gone. So just give me a valid e-mail and I'll send you everything I have all zipped up.
Glad to hear someone got some use from them.
you can send them to me for the Vaults if you want.
:D
Updated version, including Adamantyr's red hills at Terra Vermelha
I labeled the Yazak camps and territories, according to this new SC map, considering Rio Copos as it should be (note that "Dankut Camp" and "Kuttai and Dankut Camp" were reversed)
Rivers are also labeled, and I made up some names for unnamed rivers:
-Rio Guadalante
-Rio Bombacha
-Rio Entroza (because of the Baronía de Entroza; it's capital, Ciudad Nacional, is marked at the map too)
-Rio Sombrío
-Rio Dorado (because of Paso Dorado)
Also added a fertile valley at the end of the still unnamed river, that joins Rio Copos
And that's the same map, without labels:
you can send them to me for the Vaults if you want.
:D
Sure, I'll zip them up and get them to you in a day or so.
Adam