Now there will be a fully stated out NPC soon, but he will be stated out using the rules that I have made for templars in my game - which I will also soon be posting. You may notice that the improved secular authority is slightly different from the ability listed in the templar material in the DS core material, and that is because I have also slightly tweeked that ability and the improved version is based off of that version (again - the secular authority I use will soon be posted as well - but there is only so much time in a day, right).
Comments, praise, and critique are welcome and I hope this fulfills your bad-arse templar needs
High Templar
"You have been found guilty of sedition – the punishment for which is death for you and slavery for your entire family. Now tell me who else you spoke to of this and I swear to you that your death will be relatively painless."
- Marias, High Templar of Hamanu and the King’s Justice
Within the few oasis’ of civilization that still survive in the harsh lands of the Tyr Region, the sorcerer-kings are the supreme power and entire cities bow to their might and have done so for thousands of years. Within those cities, the monarchs have numerous servants, known collectively as templars, empowered with divine spells and entrusted to enforce the laws and maintain the day-to-day activities within the city-states. No other group is more corrupt, feared, or hated within all of the known lands. But there is a small sect of templars, known as high templars, that have been hand selected by their rulers and entrusted with greater power and immense responsibilities, who act as the eye, voice, and hand for the individual rulers of the city-states. These select men and women answer only to their ruler and their word is considered law.
High templars are the highest ranking, most powerful, ruthless, and usually most corrupt example of a templar and are the pinical to which most other templars attempt to rise to. When appointed, a high templar is usually given a specific area of responsibility. Successful execution of their duties allows the high templar to maintain their grip on power, failure often results in the high templars death – most often at the hand of the monarch whom he served.
Due to the requirements, only the most loyal and zealous templars are allowed to done the mantle of a high templar. Those who are selected are usually straight class templars who have garnered the trust or interest of their respective monarchs, though there have been cases where a high templar was named ho did not fit this profile, for reasons known only to the sorcerer-king who so appointed him. Some multiclassed templar/psions, /fighters, and /rogues have found their additional skills as asset within their position as a high templar.
Hit Die: d8
Requirements
To become a high templar, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Skills: Diplomacy 13 ranks, Knowledge (any) 13 ranks, Spellcraft 13 ranks
Feats: any one metamagic feat, Negotiator or Persuasive, and Skill Focus (knowledge [any])
Spells: Must be able to cast 5th level templar spells.
Special: High templar’s can only be appointed by a sorcerer-king or –queen.
Class Skills
The high templar's class skills (and key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int) Diplomacy (Cha), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (any) (Int), Literacy (none), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language (none) and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.
This PrC is very powerful IMO, so having a few mediocre feats as a requirement does not seem that bad. I have never changed anything where someone was not able to give me a logical and persuasive reason why - you know that burn01: remember our conversation about the Member of the Order PrC
. So I still say, if the only reason to change the feat requirements is that they are not the best feats to have - well I am unmoved. Sorry.
Plus, I thought they fit pretty well and show some of the requirements that make a good templar - knowledgeable, glib and smooth, and harder to kill.
Theres not enough incentive to take the PrC unless it was in a high level game. From level 1-10 Templars are weaker than Clerics and mnost other classes so by requirements that high I wouldn't take the PrC or be inclined to aim for it. Darksun is supposed to be brutal brutal/tough but the requirements actually make you weaker than a normal Templar who spent their few feats on other things.
Kills two birds with one stone here - adds a feat that is desirable for templars to take, and makes the PrC feat requirements more 'palatable'.
Its not so mush the feats required as the ampunt of them 3/4 for a non human and Templars don't really get any class abilities after level 3 just spells and feats. Put it this way I can spend 3 feats and take the PrC or I can take several divine feats instead since charisma is a Templars prime ability. The toughness feat is reasonably awful and doesn't amke that much sense for the PrC to require since it is sometimes a pre requistie for fighter type PrCs like Dwarven Defender.
Theres not enough incentive to take the PrC unless it was in a high level game. From level 1-10 Templars are weaker than Clerics and mnost other classes so by requirements that high I wouldn't take the PrC or be inclined to aim for it. Darksun is supposed to be brutal brutal/tough but the requirements actually make you weaker than a normal Templar who spent their few feats on other things.
Okay - so how is a templar really that much weaker than a cleric? They have the same BAB and save progression. Sure, their spell choice is limited to the spells they know, but a templar (the athas.org version) actually has more spells that he could cast in a day than a cleric. Is it because a templar gets new spell levels later - well so do sorcerers. Now if you are using my spell progression and such, well that is a differant story and they do get less spells per day - but I am okay with that because cleics and templars should not be cookie cutter mirrors of each other.
But, templars, like sorcerers, are not "stuck" with only the spells they have memorized, they have every spell that they know for that level always at their finger tips. Sure, the templar spell lists are limited, but honesty, how much does the spells that your clerics use from one session to the next change? In my experiance both as a DM and a player, I would have to say little.
So yes - you would have to plan on taking this class and have the talk with the DM about letting you work for it, and you would have to suck up some feats that are not in the powergamer top ten choices for feat selection, but each feat that is required in this PrC is a reflection of an aspect of what makes a good templar as I said before.
And you are right - there is no incentive to take this PrC unless it is a high level game, because the entry reqirement is 10th level, which is based upon skills and not feats - so you are right, no one would take this PrC unless they were playing in a game that took them over 10th level.
Mechanically the Templar doesn't compare that well to a Favoured Soul let alone Cleric. The Templar in our party was usually aoutclassed by the Cleric of Water at all levels although it started to catch up around level 9 but that was with a houserules Initiate of Oronis feat that allowed the Templar to add charisma bonus to saves and it had the Divine Might feat that allows you to add charisma bonus to damage. It barely even knows any extra spells compared to the cleric. At level 6 for example the Templar can cast 6/5/3 spells per day and the Cleric can cast 4/4/3 including the domain spell. The Cleric however gained his level 3 spell a whole turn earlier and what makes clerics good is the ability to change the spells they know. Templars are locked into the few spells they know and if they want to heal they will know even fewer spells. The Clerics spontaneous casting is quite important when comparing the to classes. Throw in the domain powers they get and they are good to go.
Thats just using the core rules. If you add in extra material there are more feats, spells and Prestige Clases for a cleric to get and they can change their spells known while the Templar can't except every few levels they can swap spells. The Templar isn't comp[letely awful as it is still a primary spellcasting class but is outclassed mechanically so to speak by the Druid,Cleric, Wizard, Psion, Favoured Soul but it compares alright to the Sorceror which is the lame duck of the spellcasting family.
The trade offs in spell power to me aern't worth the extra 2 skill points a level, 2 martial weapons which don't matter so much and secular authority which is of very limited use. One day the cleric can be a battle priest or fighter the next say they can be a healer, the day after that a diviner or an artillery cleric the day after that etc. The Templar is locked into the one role his chosen spells can achieve and he doesn't really have enough spells known to do much more than try and imitate the Cleric or to concentrate on multiople roles.
Well, if the only complaint is that the feats required are not "good ones" than I do not see a very compelling reason to change the requirements.
So I still say, if the only reason to change the feat requirements is that they are not the best feats to have - well I am unmoved. Sorry.
Plus, I thought they fit pretty well and show some of the requirements that make a good templar - knowledgeable, glib and smooth, and harder to kill.
How about something like Leadership (for command) or Magical Aptitude, or Negotiator instead of toughness. Those all seem like they fit a templar better than Toughness to me. The toughness seems out of character, as a good templar, especially a High templar, would have plenty of meat sheilds around to be tough for him. If not that, then maybe great fortitude, to survive poisoning attempts or something.
just my 2 bits
you know that burn01
That's right! Burn baby, burn!
How about something like Leadership (for command) or Magical Aptitude, or Negotiator instead of toughness. Those all seem like they fit a templar better than Toughness to me. The toughness seems out of character, as a good templar, especially a High templar, would have plenty of meat sheilds around to be tough for him. If not that, then maybe great fortitude, to survive poisoning attempts or something.
I second the Leadership suggestion. Seems to be a nice fit for the PrC's concept. Plus, a templar in such a high position needs some trustworthy flunkies.
I second the Leadership suggestion. Seems to be a nice fit for the PrC's concept. Plus, a templar in such a high position needs some trustworthy flunkies.
I was just on chat with Chris and I told him the same thing I will say here - Leadership is a wasted feat for a templar to take because as it is now, secular authority is effectively like Leadership - you get to use troops and spellcasters (followers) and you get a cohort - so why take a feat?
The requirements now stand at any one metamagic feat, Negotiator or Persuasive, and Skill Focus (knowledge [any]). So we have magical, social, and knowledge skills.
Now - can there please be comments on something else aside from the blasted requirements :P
I think it's fine now :D
I was just on chat with Chris and I told him the same thing I will say here - Leadership is a wasted feat for a templar to take because as it is now, secular authority is effectively like Leadership - you get to use troops and spellcasters (followers) and you get a cohort - so why take a feat?
Yes, but are the loyal? Secular Authority doesn't guarantee that like Leadership does.
Anyway, let me look at rest of what you have and provide some input later