Paraelemental Clerics. Retcon Bye Bye? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Paraelemental Clerics. Retcon Bye Bye?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Zardnaar
May 20, 2007 17:53:08 I'm thinking of ditching the Paraelemental Clerics from my DS game. The PCs for it didn't play 2nd ed D&D and are only vaguely aware of them. I'm thinking of houseruling that they never existed or the damage to the planes after Dregoth Ascending has cut them off from their spell power. Rain Clerics to me wouldbe a PrC or maybe a feat varient on water Clerics more or less restricted to the Forest Ridge while Sun=Fire as the Dwarf Cleric in he Prism Pentad. Magma could be a varient Earth or Fire Cleric and who cares about silt.

I really don't like them for some reason.
#2
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
May 20, 2007 19:03:57 I dunno, I like the Paraelemental Clerics myself. But to each their own.
#3
elonarc
May 20, 2007 19:07:29 While I personally would not remove them, I see them as a little bit confusing to new players. In my Dark Sun game, I did not tell the (totally new to Dark Sun) players about para-elements - there were way too many other things to remember for them. They found out later, in-game, and now paraelemental clerics are playable in my group.
#4
zombiegleemax
May 20, 2007 19:29:44 There are so few of them it really doesn't matter if you remove them or not, your Players shouldn't know about them anyway^^. They make some fine Arch-Villains or evil/friendly organisations. They can be an nasty surprise for your Players, if they know only the four Elemntal schools.

I like them, they give you more possibilities and this is always good. Especially high-end clerics will have their fun with the Elemental Wars ;).
#5
Jaysyn
May 20, 2007 23:08:21 Silt & Magma clerics make great bad guys!
#6
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
May 21, 2007 0:20:08
There are so few of them it really doesn't matter if you remove them or not, your Players shouldn't know about them anyway^^. They make some fine Arch-Villains or evil/friendly organisations. They can be an nasty surprise for your Players, if they know only the four Elemntal schools.

I like them, they give you more possibilities and this is always good. Especially high-end clerics will have their fun with the Elemental Wars ;).

I tend to work with the idea that there's actually not many Elemental Clerics either. As such, I tend to think that the paraelementals have made great strides to get more followers, and more clerics. so, I don't see the paraelemental clerics as being all that much more rare than the elemental clerics.
#7
zombiegleemax
May 21, 2007 4:01:00
I tend to work with the idea that there's actually not many Elemental Clerics either. As such, I tend to think that the paraelementals have made great strides to get more followers, and more clerics. so, I don't see the paraelemental clerics as being all that much more rare than the elemental clerics.

IIRC each City has it's Elemental Tempels, where the normal people seek cure and guidance, so Elemental Clerics aren't as rare as the paramental ones. ^^
#8
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
May 21, 2007 12:41:13
IIRC each City has it's Elemental Tempels, where the normal people seek cure and guidance, so Elemental Clerics aren't as rare as the paramental ones. ^^

Depends on your view of the Elemental Clerics. I just could never reconcile the idea that Elemental Clerics were allowed to practice like that within a city-state where the Templars were established, and worship of the Sorcerer-King was the "state religion". Further, I jut don't see the Elemental Clerics gathering congregations -- being more nomadic, going where their respective patrons send them to attempt to work on restoring the balance. Things like Earth Clerics teaching people how to plow fields, Water Clerics helping find & dig wells, Fire Elementals working on planting trees, etc. Or they wander the wilderness trying to help get the balance restored.

Meanwhile, the Paraelemental Clerics are trying to expand/extend the scope and power of their respective patron paraelements. Silt Clerics are trying to increase the spread of the Sea of Silt, Sun Clerics try to make the sky more open/available, Magma Clerics work on trying to expand the open lava flows already on the world, etc. The balance isn't their concern, just increasing their respective patron's power.

But I just don't see temples being built within the city-states for the elements. I don't see Templars really being thrilled having Clerics around, and more or less bullying them, or giving "strong suggestions" for them to leave. Just like I don't see Templars and Druids really getting along very well -- Druids oppose everything that the Sorcerer-Kings stand for, and Templars follow the Sorcerer-Kings. Heck, I even see Elemental Clerics and Druids not necessarily meshing well -- Druids feel the Elemental Clerics were at best ineffectual allies, at worst that they betrayed the Druids by standing aside while the Druids were almost completely annihilated.
#9
greyorm
May 28, 2007 14:59:53
Meanwhile, the Paraelemental Clerics are trying to expand/extend the scope and power of their respective patron paraelements. Silt Clerics are trying to increase the spread of the Sea of Silt...

I, too, like some of the paraelemental clerics, but I'm a bit more focused on the how and why of real-world religions when it comes to playing around with religion in fantasy games.

For example, for Dark Sun, I figure all the paraelemental priests aren't bad or out to increase their patron's power at any cost. In the case of the Silt clerics, they may be numerous along the shores of the Silt Sea, acting as intercessors on behalf of their communities, paying respect to the element and appeasing its destructive nature so the community is spared.

History is full of the worship of jealous, angry, greedy, hateful gods, who are prayed to not with love but fear. The Incans would cut the heart from sacrifices to keep the sun in the sky, the Babylonians would ask the gods not slay mothers in childbirth, etc. Even the God of the Old Testament is a vicious and demanding git.

Same idea at work here: the people aren't so much praying to the element as they are attempting to appease powerful forces that could destroy their lives.

I think it is a whole lot of fun and very interesting to have a cleric that isn't interested in spreading his deity's word and influence, as he is in protecting others from it.

Depends on your view of the Elemental Clerics. I just could never reconcile the idea that Elemental Clerics were allowed to practice like that within a city-state where the Templars were established, and worship of the Sorcerer-King was the "state religion".

An idea I used in a story some time ago was based on another common-place historical event: the clerics of the natural forces are allowed to build temples and shrines in the cities to the elemental forces of the world, but their dogma has to include praising the city's patron deity as the overlord and ruler of those forces. This is similar to how, in ancient cultures, the conquering tribes would relegate the gods of the conquered to subservient roles to their own gods, rather than alienating the people by proclaiming their gods and beliefs were wholly false.
#10
ruhl-than_sage
Jun 04, 2007 14:48:02 Great points Greyorm. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I love the idea of requiring the elemental cleric in the city to pay lip service to the divinity of the SK . I already had them taxed and required to preform minor services for the city (the Water Clerics maintaining the purity of the water supply, the Fire Clerics responsible for burning the dead, the Earth Clerics helping tend to the King's gardens and fields, the Air Clerics.. well they were never welcome in any City State and would stay in one place long anyway). in service to the King, but this adds a new dimension.

Your interpretation of Silt Clerics is very insightful as well... if only WotC still employed people with good ideas like you :sigh:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Zardnaar May 20, 2007 17:53:08	I'm thinking of ditching the Paraelemental Clerics from my DS game. The PCs for it didn't play 2nd ed D&D and are only vaguely aware of them. I'm thinking of houseruling that they never existed or the damage to the planes after Dregoth Ascending has cut them off from their spell power. Rain Clerics to me wouldbe a PrC or maybe a feat varient on water Clerics more or less restricted to the Forest Ridge while Sun=Fire as the Dwarf Cleric in he Prism Pentad. Magma could be a varient Earth or Fire Cleric and who cares about silt. I really don't like them for some reason.
#2 xlorepdarkhelm_dup May 20, 2007 19:03:57	I dunno, I like the Paraelemental Clerics myself. But to each their own.
#3 elonarc May 20, 2007 19:07:29	While I personally would not remove them, I see them as a little bit confusing to new players. In my Dark Sun game, I did not tell the (totally new to Dark Sun) players about para-elements - there were way too many other things to remember for them. They found out later, in-game, and now paraelemental clerics are playable in my group.
#4 zombiegleemax May 20, 2007 19:29:44	There are so few of them it really doesn't matter if you remove them or not, your Players shouldn't know about them anyway^^. They make some fine Arch-Villains or evil/friendly organisations. They can be an nasty surprise for your Players, if they know only the four Elemntal schools. I like them, they give you more possibilities and this is always good. Especially high-end clerics will have their fun with the Elemental Wars ;).
#5 Jaysyn May 20, 2007 23:08:21	Silt & Magma clerics make great bad guys!
#6 xlorepdarkhelm_dup May 21, 2007 0:20:08	There are so few of them it really doesn't matter if you remove them or not, your Players shouldn't know about them anyway^^. They make some fine Arch-Villains or evil/friendly organisations. They can be an nasty surprise for your Players, if they know only the four Elemntal schools. I like them, they give you more possibilities and this is always good. Especially high-end clerics will have their fun with the Elemental Wars ;). I tend to work with the idea that there's actually not many Elemental Clerics either. As such, I tend to think that the paraelementals have made great strides to get more followers, and more clerics. so, I don't see the paraelemental clerics as being all that much more rare than the elemental clerics.
#7 zombiegleemax May 21, 2007 4:01:00	I tend to work with the idea that there's actually not many Elemental Clerics either. As such, I tend to think that the paraelementals have made great strides to get more followers, and more clerics. so, I don't see the paraelemental clerics as being all that much more rare than the elemental clerics. IIRC each City has it's Elemental Tempels, where the normal people seek cure and guidance, so Elemental Clerics aren't as rare as the paramental ones. ^^
#8 xlorepdarkhelm_dup May 21, 2007 12:41:13	IIRC each City has it's Elemental Tempels, where the normal people seek cure and guidance, so Elemental Clerics aren't as rare as the paramental ones. ^^ Depends on your view of the Elemental Clerics. I just could never reconcile the idea that Elemental Clerics were allowed to practice like that within a city-state where the Templars were established, and worship of the Sorcerer-King was the "state religion". Further, I jut don't see the Elemental Clerics gathering congregations -- being more nomadic, going where their respective patrons send them to attempt to work on restoring the balance. Things like Earth Clerics teaching people how to plow fields, Water Clerics helping find & dig wells, Fire Elementals working on planting trees, etc. Or they wander the wilderness trying to help get the balance restored. Meanwhile, the Paraelemental Clerics are trying to expand/extend the scope and power of their respective patron paraelements. Silt Clerics are trying to increase the spread of the Sea of Silt, Sun Clerics try to make the sky more open/available, Magma Clerics work on trying to expand the open lava flows already on the world, etc. The balance isn't their concern, just increasing their respective patron's power. But I just don't see temples being built within the city-states for the elements. I don't see Templars really being thrilled having Clerics around, and more or less bullying them, or giving "strong suggestions" for them to leave. Just like I don't see Templars and Druids really getting along very well -- Druids oppose everything that the Sorcerer-Kings stand for, and Templars follow the Sorcerer-Kings. Heck, I even see Elemental Clerics and Druids not necessarily meshing well -- Druids feel the Elemental Clerics were at best ineffectual allies, at worst that they betrayed the Druids by standing aside while the Druids were almost completely annihilated.
#9 greyorm May 28, 2007 14:59:53	Meanwhile, the Paraelemental Clerics are trying to expand/extend the scope and power of their respective patron paraelements. Silt Clerics are trying to increase the spread of the Sea of Silt... I, too, like some of the paraelemental clerics, but I'm a bit more focused on the how and why of real-world religions when it comes to playing around with religion in fantasy games. For example, for Dark Sun, I figure all the paraelemental priests aren't bad or out to increase their patron's power at any cost. In the case of the Silt clerics, they may be numerous along the shores of the Silt Sea, acting as intercessors on behalf of their communities, paying respect to the element and appeasing its destructive nature so the community is spared. History is full of the worship of jealous, angry, greedy, hateful gods, who are prayed to not with love but fear. The Incans would cut the heart from sacrifices to keep the sun in the sky, the Babylonians would ask the gods not slay mothers in childbirth, etc. Even the God of the Old Testament is a vicious and demanding git. Same idea at work here: the people aren't so much praying to the element as they are attempting to appease powerful forces that could destroy their lives. I think it is a whole lot of fun and very interesting to have a cleric that isn't interested in spreading his deity's word and influence, as he is in protecting others from it. Depends on your view of the Elemental Clerics. I just could never reconcile the idea that Elemental Clerics were allowed to practice like that within a city-state where the Templars were established, and worship of the Sorcerer-King was the "state religion". An idea I used in a story some time ago was based on another common-place historical event: the clerics of the natural forces are allowed to build temples and shrines in the cities to the elemental forces of the world, but their dogma has to include praising the city's patron deity as the overlord and ruler of those forces. This is similar to how, in ancient cultures, the conquering tribes would relegate the gods of the conquered to subservient roles to their own gods, rather than alienating the people by proclaiming their gods and beliefs were wholly false.
#10 ruhl-than_sage Jun 04, 2007 14:48:02	Great points Greyorm. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I love the idea of requiring the elemental cleric in the city to pay lip service to the divinity of the SK . I already had them taxed and required to preform minor services for the city (the Water Clerics maintaining the purity of the water supply, the Fire Clerics responsible for burning the dead, the Earth Clerics helping tend to the King's gardens and fields, the Air Clerics.. well they were never welcome in any City State and would stay in one place long anyway). in service to the King, but this adds a new dimension. Your interpretation of Silt Clerics is very insightful as well... if only WotC still employed people with good ideas like you :sigh: