Frank Mentzer wrote:
As Thonia embraced open worship of the Outer Beings, Blackmoor and other nations would have aggressively stamped it out, and closed their borders with the declining empire. This would have increased tensions across the region, and, combined with the increasing instability of technomantic devices, the region would have become a pretty nightmarish place - think GURPS Cthulhupunk, perhaps.
Even after the GRoF, as the Immortals began to reassert themselves and save as many people as possible, the Outer Being cults would have pointed to the state of the world as "proof" that the Immortals were weak. Some may have kept the faith, and brought their allegiances with them as the surviving Thonians migrated to their new home.
Those are some ideas, anyway.
Geoff
Given the similarities between the Burrowers and the Great Old Ones of Cthulhianic lore, perhaps there is a connection there? It never quite sit right with me that Thanatos sicced his Burrowers on the Hollow World, which had virtually no inhabitants at the time (save for, canonically, some tribes of Brute-Men), and there was little Immortal interest in the inner world at the time (it not having been set up as a preserve yet).
So perhaps there were some Burrowers in the Outer World as well who were caught in the Spell of Preservation? Or, in any event, perhaps one or more Burrowers have been able to somehow extend their influence to the people in Skothar- notably the Thonians- and gradually corrupt them over time?
Wow- I'm liking the idea already. No immediate thoughts come to mind, but I'm pretty much thinking the same kinds of things you're thinking, about the (C)Thonians being the degenerate descendants of the Blackmoor Thonians. Heck, we know that Thonia was an empire already in decline at the time of Blackmoor's rise (for something like the third time, IIRC)- what if that decline was directly related to their turning towards Cthulhianic deities/practices? I'm thinking along the lines of some of the kingdoms of Howard/Conan lore here.
Cthulianic practices among the original Thonians fits very well with my vision of the greater Blackmoor setting at least. The Howard/Conan analogy is also very appropriate. Now, once Thonia was taken over by Blackmoor I would expect that many of these practices were dealt with and that the decadence of the Thonians came to an end or at least a very long pause...
This is an interesting concept. I remember a discussion a while back about Outer Being activity around the time of the GRoF, and there seemed to be some interest in the idea that, in such a time of chaos, the power of the Immortals would have been weakened for a time. Consequently, Outer Being worship might have come out into the open, and degenerate practices of all sorts might have spread in ancient Thonia.
You are more knowledgable in Outer Being Lore than me Geoff, but I thought the OB's themselves were effectively gone from the multiverse and that it would be their followers the Thonians would have to worship at this time?
It makes sense that the Immortals were weakened in the time following the GRoF though. Dark practices of the Thonians as suggested by Cthulhudrew might have returned in this time, among the survivors of the disaster. As the refugees of Old Thonia made their exodus into modern Thonia they may have discovered new such dark masters there, which I named the Spawn of Coot...
As Thonia embraced open worship of the Outer Beings, Blackmoor and other nations would have aggressively stamped it out, and closed their borders with the declining empire. This would have increased tensions across the region, and, combined with the increasing instability of technomantic devices, the region would have become a pretty nightmarish place - think GURPS Cthulhupunk, perhaps.
This is a little different from what I imagined. Not neccesarily bad, but different. In 3001 BC Thonia has been subjugated by Blackmoor for almost a milennium. I could certainly see some roots of ancient OB worship in the region and doomsday cults springing up. I like the idea of technology becoming gradually more and more unstable. I hadnt thought of it like that before. Definately interesting.
Even after the GRoF, as the Immortals began to reassert themselves and save as many people as possible, the Outer Being cults would have pointed to the state of the world as "proof" that the Immortals were weak. Some may have kept the faith, and brought their allegiances with them as the surviving Thonians migrated to their new home.
Yeah. In this time, Outer Being cults would have ideal breeding grounds. The fact that many of the refugees were in fact Mujiinas created by the Egg of Coot, helped the cults direct the refugees to a region the Egg had already prepared for them...
The Spawn of Coot is obviously a homage to the Cthulhuspawn with the assumption that the Egg of Coot is a powerful servant of the Outer Being. (Taking this idea a little longer, maybe the final battle between Blackmoor and the Egg of Coot somewhere around 3800 BC made the Egg and its land sink into the Black Sea, only to return when the "Stars are Right"?)
The Mujinas are a face shifting race from the Master's set, representing the artificial race living among the Thonians. As mentioned above, that idea comes from Mentzer's link to the Cthonia of Traveller.
All in all, AC 1000 Thonia could be a rather interesting place for an adventure...
Havard
Given the similarities between the Burrowers and the Great Old Ones of Cthulhianic lore, perhaps there is a connection there? It never quite sit right with me that Thanatos sicced his Burrowers on the Hollow World, which had virtually no inhabitants at the time (save for, canonically, some tribes of Brute-Men), and there was little Immortal interest in the inner world at the time (it not having been set up as a preserve yet).
Perhaps they were kept so deep underground to stay hidden? This would make sense if they could indeed exact influence on outer world creatures. Possibly this ability was limited later by the SoP?
So perhaps there were some Burrowers in the Outer World as well who were caught in the Spell of Preservation? Or, in any event, perhaps one or more Burrowers have been able to somehow extend their influence to the people in Skothar- notably the Thonians- and gradually corrupt them over time?
Either burrowers or other similar creatures (or both). The way I see it, the burrowers are some of the few servitor races of the Outer Beings still left on Mystara. I see the Egg of Coot as another such creature. The Egg and its spawn were probably some of the main agents of the OBs on Skothar.
Note that whenever I speak of Cthulhu Mythos in connection to Blackmoor, Im thinking in terms of Howard's take on the Mythos where the dark gods were terribly ancient evils like in Lovecraft, but gods that could be vanquished by powerful warriors with big swords ;)
Havard
You are more knowledgable in Outer Being Lore than me Geoff, but I thought the OB's themselves were effectively gone from the multiverse and that it would be their followers the Thonians would have to worship at this time?
This is a good question, and it's a good thing I've been thinking about this one...
How the Outer Beings Can Touch the Prime Plane
The way I imagine things, in the old days, the OBs operated pretty much like Immortals - they granted spells, manifested occasionally on the Prime Plane (they didn't really favour avatars - worshippers got the real deal), and pretty much did what they wanted. After they were sealed away, they were generally unable to directly affect the Prime Plane, but (as with Lovecraft) they may still reach certain people in their dreams, or when they attain a mental state in which they could be more open to contact (i.e., through the use of drugs, intense meditation, magic, acquiring knowledge, etc.)
In addition, the barriers that prevent the OBs from touching much of the multiverse fluctuate over time. At certain times of the year they are slightly weaker, and at those times people can be more susceptible to being influenced. Certain elements of the barriers may also tied to the stars themselves, and as they move through the heavens, the barriers likewise strengthen and weaken. Thus, there may well come a time when "the stars are right", and the barriers will be weakened enough to allow the OBs to break through, if the right rituals are performed.
Some of the tomes created for use in campaigns would have been written after some particularly bad dreams, or (again in admiring imitation of HPL's style) after the writer "learned too much". The in-game mechanism for this is the Outer Being Lore skill. As a person learns more, they attract the attention of the OBs because their mind becomes progressively more attuned to them. Thus, even though the OBs are locked away in other dimensions, the scholar (voluntary or not) of OB lore stands out like a beacon. Once first contact is made, the link becomes stronger over time.
Now, in the case of cultists, who willingly open their minds to the OBs, this process is greatly accelerated. This process is often accompanied by a specific ritual; it would be insufficient for a person to simply decide to start venerating the OBs. Cultists with high Wisdom may even be granted spells*; although to a lesser degree than would be the case with conventional clerics, whose Immortal patrons are not inhibited from touching or otherwise influencing the Prime Plane.
In addition to all this, the OBs' servitors play a role, as you rightly point out. Being closely aligned with the OBs, and most often being *of* them, servitors can often act as emissaries and catalysts, amplifying the strength of prayers, and allowing the OBs to occasionally push through the barriers to grant "gifts" to the faithful.
Geoff
*Someday soon, I may get around to writing up an OB cultist NPC class, much as was done for the anti-paladin. It might be useful to DMs as an aid for creating cultists for the PCs to fight.
This is a good question, and it's a good thing I've been thinking about this one...
How the Outer Beings Can Touch the Prime Plane
Great write-up, Geoff! I really like this kind of feel in my D&D. Plots are already forming...
Interested folks can also peruse my article on insanity rules on the Vaults. It contains some basic information about the origins of the Outer Beings, and how they might interact with mortals. Also, in that article I put forth the notion that the Day of Dread (should it ever occur in your campaign) can also be considered a day during which the barriers holding back the Outer Beings are weakened.
Geoff
Also, in that article I put forth the notion that the Day of Dread (should it ever occur in your campaign) can also be considered a day during which the barriers holding back the Outer Beings are weakened.
Perhaps now that the NoS is drawing it's energy from the Sphere of Entropy that entropic radiance is weaking the barriers between the dimensions allowing the OB's to exert more power.
Regards
Gary