Prestige Class Appendix, Volume 2 - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Prestige Class Appendix, Volume 2

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
cnahumck
Jun 19, 2007 21:31:40 Hey, does anyone know when this thing comes out? :P
#2
j0lt
Jun 20, 2007 6:13:58 Ooooooooooooooooooooo!
#3
Grummore
Jun 20, 2007 7:54:28 Very nice! A small shadow though... Like in the first release, not much PrC for the fighting classes.
#4
Sysane
Jun 20, 2007 8:16:58 Wow, six out of the seven PrCs I submitted were dropped in this play test version.
#5
kalthandrix
Jun 20, 2007 8:17:41 That is because they cut out over half of the PrCs that were in the document that I submitted (58 PrCs total). Granted - I decided to withdraw my classes as a form of protest, but still, that is some heavy handed trimming IMO.

In total, I think I received 80-ish PrCs total when I started this project, and I did make cuts for ones that were not done and/or the material's author did not want to make changes or return them to me.

As you can see from the first page of the doc, I decided not to take any "credit" for all of the work that I did do - and I had no hand in this version of the doc. Like I said, the one I sent to athas.org contained many more PrCs.

I was told that the cuts were done because the classes were not "Dark Sun" material or not the right flavor - interesting considering that the athas.org page says that this stuff was made by the fans of Dark Sun.

hmmm...
#6
Sysane
Jun 20, 2007 9:01:29 Not to split hairs, but a tari PrC or a PrC that expanded on a dwarf's focus ability wasn't Dark Sun enough?
#7
kalthandrix
Jun 20, 2007 9:04:58
Not to split hairs, but a tari PrC wasn't Dark Sun enough?

It was in the doc I sent in...
#8
Sysane
Jun 20, 2007 9:14:35
It was in the doc I sent in...

Well, I'm at a loss for words.
#9
kalthandrix
Jun 20, 2007 9:48:24 ...
#10
brun01
Jun 20, 2007 10:08:41
Not to split hairs, but a tari PrC or a PrC that expanded on a dwarf's focus ability wasn't Dark Sun enough?

I'm working on having some more prcs from the original submission in the next beta release. Keep your fingers crossed...
#11
Sysane
Jun 20, 2007 10:30:47
Me too - maybe THIS will cheer up people.

Nice Kal.
#12
Sysane
Jun 20, 2007 10:32:12
I'm working on having some more prcs from the original submission in the next beta release. Keep your fingers crossed...

Here's to hoping.
#13
ruhl-than_sage
Jun 20, 2007 15:45:08
That is because they cut out over half of the PrCs that were in the document that I submitted (58 PrCs total). Granted - I decided to withdraw my classes as a form of protest, but still, that is some heavy handed trimming IMO.

In total, I think I received 80-ish PrCs total when I started this project, and I did make cuts for ones that were not done and/or the material's author did not want to make changes or return them to me.

As you can see from the first page of the doc, I decided not to take any "credit" for all of the work that I did do - and I had no hand in this version of the doc. Like I said, the one I sent to athas.org contained many more PrCs.

I was told that the cuts were done because the classes were not "Dark Sun" material or not the right flavor - interesting considering that the athas.org page says that this stuff was made by the fans of Dark Sun.

hmmm...

See, I told you to never trust a templar :D , especially not one who claims to be an oracle. I'm glad you decided to leave the fold Kal, not much time for Flaying Halfings when you are busy planning the King's Works.
#14
jon_oracle_of_athas
Jun 20, 2007 16:36:46
I was told that the cuts were done because the classes were not "Dark Sun" material or not the right flavor - interesting considering that the athas.org page says that this stuff was made by the fans of Dark Sun.

Just because a fan wrote it doesn´t qualify it as top notch Dark Sun material. Athas.org generally favors quality over quantity. Classes that were omitted were done so for a number of reasons, some of which include:

1. Poor or unimaginative mechanics
2. Too generic concept (e.g. labeled "Not Athas specific")
3. Existing classes fill the same role
4. Poor class descriptions
5. Too narrow concept

Also bear in mind that athas.org received modified versions, some heavily modified, from the project manager/editor who put the first version of the PrC Appendix II document together. We do not know how the originals looked or felt thematically.
#15
kalthandrix
Jun 20, 2007 19:03:10 ...
#16
redkank_dup
Jun 21, 2007 7:10:11 Wow. Do you Burnt World of Athas dudes always rag on each other so publically? Way to be professional, guys. Don't you have emails that you can slag each other over? And Kal posting an "unofficial" version of the doc? Isn't that still Burnt World of Athas IP, given that they commissioned it? Classy

Anyway, doc looks interesting - will have to give it a proper read. The formatting is ugly, tho, but I guess it's still just a playtest release.
#17
brun01
Jun 21, 2007 7:23:17 To avoid any more attrition with members and ex-members, I won't respond to any of those claims. The classes on the current beta are not final and because you don't see some of the prcs you submitted on it, it does not mean we won't use them. Wait for the next beta. We have much more material planned in the future, where some of those prcs are more fitting.

Anyway, doc looks interesting - will have to give it a proper read. The formatting is ugly, tho, but I guess it's still just a playtest release.

You mean the formatting on the athas.org pdf? It follows the exact same format as all WotC new prestige classes do. Background and graphics as normal only on the final file.
#18
redkank_dup
Jun 21, 2007 7:33:00
You mean the formatting on the athas.org pdf? It follows the exact same format as all WotC new prestige classes do. Background and graphics as normal only on the final file.

Yah, I just think that it'd be better not to have the classes running from one page to the next. I think it looks kinda messy. Still, you're the experts and all, and it's no biggie for me. So long as the writing is good, I'm cool.
#19
Sysane
Jun 21, 2007 7:45:36
You mean the formatting on the athas.org pdf? It follows the exact same format as all WotC new prestige classes do. Background and graphics as normal only on the final file.

I think RedKank's referring to the table placement. I tend to agree that its kind of unsightly. Its sort of annoying to start to read info on a PrC and then not get to the PrC's level progression table till a few more pages down in the document.
#20
brun01
Jun 21, 2007 7:49:36 Well, that I can do ;)
#21
redkank_dup
Jun 21, 2007 7:52:16
I think RedKank's referring to the table placement. I tend agree that its kind of unsightly. Its sort of annoying to start to read info on a PrC and then not get to the PrC's level progression table till a few more pages down in the document.

Yah, that's what I mean. The dude with the demonic tutor said it better than I did
#22
bill_lumberg
Jun 21, 2007 11:49:18 I looked at it yesterday and though a few of the classes were very good. I especially like the Elite Judaga, Monarch's Chosen, and the Sensei is good also.

I noticed a few gramatical errors but that is not a big deal and can be fixed easily.

I agree that it looks better when classes do not overlap on pages. The tables should be on one page also.

Overall it is a good job.
#23
jon_oracle_of_athas
Jun 21, 2007 13:46:32
Wow. Do you Burnt World of Athas dudes always rag on each other so publically? Way to be professional, guys. Don't you have emails that you can slag each other over? And Kal posting an "unofficial" version of the doc? Isn't that still Burnt World of Athas IP, given that they commissioned it? Classy

I believe it to be professional to clear up confusion regarding editorial processes if they are questioned. We are both quality oriented and result oriented in the way we work at Athas.org, and our work methodology follows the principles of modern organizations.
#24
bengeldorn
Jun 21, 2007 15:39:18 First, I'd like to note that my name is Grünstern not Grunstern (try ALT + 0252, if the character isn't on your keyboard). If I am credited, at least I want to be credited correctly. ;)

Second, I noticed that in the table for crawling tattoos, the base price for 8th level powers wrong is (p. 34). It should be 6,000 not 3,750 (not your fault, it was allready wrong, when it was sent to you).

Third, first I was kind of shocked when I saw how few PrCs only made it in the Appendix, but I then I thought it was only a beta release, and there will be (hopefully) some more in the next releases. It would be a shame, if not even 50% of the submitted material would have made it in the final release.

In addition I'd like to add, that the authors shouldn't complain too much. IIRC you were told, that there is no garanty that your work will be published (at least that's what I was told). Even if you have submitted 10 PrCs, and only one is published, you should be happy for the one that was published. At least, that's what I am doing.
#25
brun01
Jun 21, 2007 15:43:00 Please shoot a mail to the templarate with all this, and I'll make sure it is fixed next time.
#26
ruhl-than_sage
Jun 21, 2007 18:05:15 I was just kidding btw, sorry if anyone took me too seriously.

I think this sort of transparency is good. It doesn't hurt as long as people are willing to discuss things and not too quick to take offense.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 cnahumck Jun 19, 2007 21:31:40	Hey, does anyone know when this thing comes out? :P
#2 j0lt Jun 20, 2007 6:13:58	Ooooooooooooooooooooo!
#3 Grummore Jun 20, 2007 7:54:28	Very nice! A small shadow though... Like in the first release, not much PrC for the fighting classes.
#4 Sysane Jun 20, 2007 8:16:58	Wow, six out of the seven PrCs I submitted were dropped in this play test version.
#5 kalthandrix Jun 20, 2007 8:17:41	That is because they cut out over half of the PrCs that were in the document that I submitted (58 PrCs total). Granted - I decided to withdraw my classes as a form of protest, but still, that is some heavy handed trimming IMO. In total, I think I received 80-ish PrCs total when I started this project, and I did make cuts for ones that were not done and/or the material's author did not want to make changes or return them to me. As you can see from the first page of the doc, I decided not to take any "credit" for all of the work that I did do - and I had no hand in this version of the doc. Like I said, the one I sent to athas.org contained many more PrCs. I was told that the cuts were done because the classes were not "Dark Sun" material or not the right flavor - interesting considering that the athas.org page says that this stuff was made by the fans of Dark Sun. hmmm...
#6 Sysane Jun 20, 2007 9:01:29	Not to split hairs, but a tari PrC or a PrC that expanded on a dwarf's focus ability wasn't Dark Sun enough?
#7 kalthandrix Jun 20, 2007 9:04:58	Not to split hairs, but a tari PrC wasn't Dark Sun enough? It was in the doc I sent in...
#8 Sysane Jun 20, 2007 9:14:35	It was in the doc I sent in... Well, I'm at a loss for words.
#9 kalthandrix Jun 20, 2007 9:48:24	...
#10 brun01 Jun 20, 2007 10:08:41	Not to split hairs, but a tari PrC or a PrC that expanded on a dwarf's focus ability wasn't Dark Sun enough? I'm working on having some more prcs from the original submission in the next beta release. Keep your fingers crossed...
#11 Sysane Jun 20, 2007 10:30:47	Me too - maybe THIS will cheer up people. Nice Kal.
#12 Sysane Jun 20, 2007 10:32:12	I'm working on having some more prcs from the original submission in the next beta release. Keep your fingers crossed... Here's to hoping.
#13 ruhl-than_sage Jun 20, 2007 15:45:08	That is because they cut out over half of the PrCs that were in the document that I submitted (58 PrCs total). Granted - I decided to withdraw my classes as a form of protest, but still, that is some heavy handed trimming IMO. In total, I think I received 80-ish PrCs total when I started this project, and I did make cuts for ones that were not done and/or the material's author did not want to make changes or return them to me. As you can see from the first page of the doc, I decided not to take any "credit" for all of the work that I did do - and I had no hand in this version of the doc. Like I said, the one I sent to athas.org contained many more PrCs. I was told that the cuts were done because the classes were not "Dark Sun" material or not the right flavor - interesting considering that the athas.org page says that this stuff was made by the fans of Dark Sun. hmmm... See, I told you to never trust a templar :D , especially not one who claims to be an oracle. I'm glad you decided to leave the fold Kal, not much time for Flaying Halfings when you are busy planning the King's Works.
#14 jon_oracle_of_athas Jun 20, 2007 16:36:46	I was told that the cuts were done because the classes were not "Dark Sun" material or not the right flavor - interesting considering that the athas.org page says that this stuff was made by the fans of Dark Sun. Just because a fan wrote it doesn´t qualify it as top notch Dark Sun material. Athas.org generally favors quality over quantity. Classes that were omitted were done so for a number of reasons, some of which include: 1. Poor or unimaginative mechanics 2. Too generic concept (e.g. labeled "Not Athas specific") 3. Existing classes fill the same role 4. Poor class descriptions 5. Too narrow concept Also bear in mind that athas.org received modified versions, some heavily modified, from the project manager/editor who put the first version of the PrC Appendix II document together. We do not know how the originals looked or felt thematically.
#15 kalthandrix Jun 20, 2007 19:03:10	...
#16 redkank_dup Jun 21, 2007 7:10:11	Wow. Do you Burnt World of Athas dudes always rag on each other so publically? Way to be professional, guys. Don't you have emails that you can slag each other over? And Kal posting an "unofficial" version of the doc? Isn't that still Burnt World of Athas IP, given that they commissioned it? Classy Anyway, doc looks interesting - will have to give it a proper read. The formatting is ugly, tho, but I guess it's still just a playtest release.
#17 brun01 Jun 21, 2007 7:23:17	To avoid any more attrition with members and ex-members, I won't respond to any of those claims. The classes on the current beta are not final and because you don't see some of the prcs you submitted on it, it does not mean we won't use them. Wait for the next beta. We have much more material planned in the future, where some of those prcs are more fitting. Anyway, doc looks interesting - will have to give it a proper read. The formatting is ugly, tho, but I guess it's still just a playtest release. You mean the formatting on the athas.org pdf? It follows the exact same format as all WotC new prestige classes do. Background and graphics as normal only on the final file.
#18 redkank_dup Jun 21, 2007 7:33:00	You mean the formatting on the athas.org pdf? It follows the exact same format as all WotC new prestige classes do. Background and graphics as normal only on the final file. Yah, I just think that it'd be better not to have the classes running from one page to the next. I think it looks kinda messy. Still, you're the experts and all, and it's no biggie for me. So long as the writing is good, I'm cool.
#19 Sysane Jun 21, 2007 7:45:36	You mean the formatting on the athas.org pdf? It follows the exact same format as all WotC new prestige classes do. Background and graphics as normal only on the final file. I think RedKank's referring to the table placement. I tend to agree that its kind of unsightly. Its sort of annoying to start to read info on a PrC and then not get to the PrC's level progression table till a few more pages down in the document.
#20 brun01 Jun 21, 2007 7:49:36	Well, that I can do ;)
#21 redkank_dup Jun 21, 2007 7:52:16	I think RedKank's referring to the table placement. I tend agree that its kind of unsightly. Its sort of annoying to start to read info on a PrC and then not get to the PrC's level progression table till a few more pages down in the document. Yah, that's what I mean. The dude with the demonic tutor said it better than I did
#22 bill_lumberg Jun 21, 2007 11:49:18	I looked at it yesterday and though a few of the classes were very good. I especially like the Elite Judaga, Monarch's Chosen, and the Sensei is good also. I noticed a few gramatical errors but that is not a big deal and can be fixed easily. I agree that it looks better when classes do not overlap on pages. The tables should be on one page also. Overall it is a good job.
#23 jon_oracle_of_athas Jun 21, 2007 13:46:32	Wow. Do you Burnt World of Athas dudes always rag on each other so publically? Way to be professional, guys. Don't you have emails that you can slag each other over? And Kal posting an "unofficial" version of the doc? Isn't that still Burnt World of Athas IP, given that they commissioned it? Classy I believe it to be professional to clear up confusion regarding editorial processes if they are questioned. We are both quality oriented and result oriented in the way we work at Athas.org, and our work methodology follows the principles of modern organizations.
#24 bengeldorn Jun 21, 2007 15:39:18	First, I'd like to note that my name is Grünstern not Grunstern (try ALT + 0252, if the character isn't on your keyboard). If I am credited, at least I want to be credited correctly. ;) Second, I noticed that in the table for crawling tattoos, the base price for 8th level powers wrong is (p. 34). It should be 6,000 not 3,750 (not your fault, it was allready wrong, when it was sent to you). Third, first I was kind of shocked when I saw how few PrCs only made it in the Appendix, but I then I thought it was only a beta release, and there will be (hopefully) some more in the next releases. It would be a shame, if not even 50% of the submitted material would have made it in the final release. In addition I'd like to add, that the authors shouldn't complain too much. IIRC you were told, that there is no garanty that your work will be published (at least that's what I was told). Even if you have submitted 10 PrCs, and only one is published, you should be happy for the one that was published. At least, that's what I am doing.
#25 brun01 Jun 21, 2007 15:43:00	Please shoot a mail to the templarate with all this, and I'll make sure it is fixed next time.
#26 ruhl-than_sage Jun 21, 2007 18:05:15	I was just kidding btw, sorry if anyone took me too seriously. I think this sort of transparency is good. It doesn't hurt as long as people are willing to discuss things and not too quick to take offense.