Gem Dragon Draconians?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

roachspit

Jun 22, 2007 16:15:44
Bear with me here, folks, please. My sadistic DM has decided to introduce other types of dragons to the campaign, most specifically gem dragons from the MM2. Just to pay her back for it, we're trying to figure out how to create gem draconians.

I'm vaguely aware of the existence of noble draconians, but I don't have the Bestiary. (That is the book in which they're detailed, right?) We're trying to design other types of draconians, based on different species of dragons, and I would appreciate any suggestions.

Er, a bit of background on the campaign might help, yes?

The PCs are time travelers from just before the start of the Chaos War. All are historians. One actually worked for Astinus, others are just history geeks. They were accidentally sent back in time to the War of the Lance, and became entangled in the war.

Unfortunately for them, every time they interfere with the correct timeline, as presented in the trilogy, Raistlin Majere has a sort of fit. He is aware that the timeline is going off-track, and that the PCs are responsible, and he does not like us. The DM has introduced sanity checks (Like Call of Cthulhu? They're detailed in Unearthed Arcana.), and the PCs and Raist all lose sanity when they alter the timeline.

By this point, the bard, cleric, druid, and wizard are all quite insane. We think that, among the four of them, they should be able to create new draconians, as a sort of shock troop/canon fodder for Knights of Solamnia with whom they are working. They're all too crazy to realize just what a bad idea this is.
#2

zombiegleemax

Jun 22, 2007 18:17:37
Kind of odd to say the least
What time period do they originally come from?
#3

roachspit

Jun 22, 2007 19:13:00
Most of them come from the period just before the events of Dragons of Summer Flame. They left their rightful timeline before the Chaos War actually happened. We picked up two replacements for dead PCs during a side-trip to Huma's era. The original monk accidentally destroyed the Staff of Magius just after Magius' death, which has made negotiations with Raistlin somewhat tense. He "knows" he is supposed to have the Staff, but he also knows that it was destroyed long ago. The DM gave him a sort of mutant lightsaber thing instead.

We're all going to die, but it's fun for now.
#4

zombiegleemax

Jun 22, 2007 21:23:25
How is it that you have a bard in a time when ambient magic is not really known about?
#5

roachspit

Jun 22, 2007 23:00:56
The same way we have gem dragons. Because the DM said so. He's a bardic sage (Unearthed Arcana p. 49), and was the one working for Astinus.
#6

zombiegleemax

Jun 23, 2007 6:38:59
I see.
#7

jewelprotector

Jun 23, 2007 8:11:51
Hee hee! This so messed up, I have GOT to chime in.

First, realize that draconians are created under the auspice of a god with an alignment directly opposed to that of the dragon in question. Hence, violating the eggs of good dragons gives you evil draconians, while noble draconians are created from evil dragons.

Since gem dragons have a neutral aspect (CN, N, or LN), and you're probably not going to get any help from Gilean (unless you can somehow convince him that it's vital to preserving the balance of Krynn), I would get an arcane spellcaster on the project, if you have or can find one of sufficient power and insanity.

As for the draconians themselves, just remember these guidelines: First, the more powerful the dragon, the fewer draconians will be produced from a single egg (hence, gold eggs produce only one, while bronze eggs will give as many as, I think, ten. Second, gem dragons have no actual spellcasting ability, but they are powerfully psionic (something that apparently has been lost to Krynn.) Keep that in mind when determining your creation's special powers, but also remember that draconians are in no way as powerful as the dragons who spawned them.

You've already shattered canon; go nuts!
#8

roachspit

Jun 23, 2007 8:59:05
Thanks, Jewelprotector.

Right now, I think we're working under the assumption that CN dragons make LN draconians and vice versa. When creating draconians from True Neutral dragons, you roll on the little table to decide the individual draconian's alignment.
#9

zombiegleemax

Jun 23, 2007 10:41:04
This is something that I would not touch with a 100 ft pole.
#10

jewelprotector

Jun 23, 2007 23:32:23
You're welcome! Hey, I figure if our game can have the first dwarven Knight of Solomnia, yours can have gem-dracos.

Please, please, PLEASE let me know how this works out for you!
#11

caeruleus

Jun 24, 2007 22:23:28
I like this. But then, I never cared much for canon, I think it should always be about what works for you (and for some, strict canon works great).

First, realize that draconians are created under the auspice of a god with an alignment directly opposed to that of the dragon in question. Hence, violating the eggs of good dragons gives you evil draconians, while noble draconians are created from evil dragons.

Since gem dragons have a neutral aspect (CN, N, or LN), and you're probably not going to get any help from Gilean (unless you can somehow convince him that it's vital to preserving the balance of Krynn), I would get an arcane spellcaster on the project, if you have or can find one of sufficient power and insanity.

I'd like to take these basic thoughts as a starting point. If the PCs came from the time just before the Chaos War, perhaps they have a bit of Chaos with them? Perhaps, with that link, the god who'll help them is Chaos?

Now, since draconians so far tend to have a moral alignment opposite of their dragon parents, and since gem dragons are neutral (and, we can assume, dedicated to balance), then perhaps these gem draconians can be dedicated to overthrowing the balance. Not for Good, not for Evil, but for Chaos (which fits well, if Chaos helped create them).

Just some thoughts. Given what you'd described about the campaign so far, I think a Chaos link might fit. But you and your group are the ultimate judges of that.
#12

zombiegleemax

Jun 25, 2007 7:29:49
That is not a bad idea.
How would you deal with them being psionic?
#13

caeruleus

Jun 25, 2007 16:22:09
That is not a bad idea.
How would you deal with them being psionic?

Thanks.

I'd just give them regular sorcery and not bother with the psionics thing. I love 3.5 psionics, but this isn't the place for them.
#14

zombiegleemax

Jun 25, 2007 19:50:23
Please let us know how this works out.
#15

wolf72

Jul 02, 2007 16:18:16
Thanks.

I'd just give them regular sorcery and not bother with the psionics thing. I love 3.5 psionics, but this isn't the place for them.

that's the easy option (and makes sense too)

but if you were considering using psionics ... just throw in some bonus PSPs and give them the psionic subtype (or I am stuck in 3.0?) so they can qualify for psionic feats.

make it the same for all of the draconians (+3 PSPs).

Crystal and Sapphire could be your 2HD variety ... crystal die by crystallizing then exploding (like frost/bozak) ... sapphire's death throes are a 10' sonic burst

Amethyst and Emerald are 4HD ... good luck on death throes (in general most seem to explode ... seems like a good idea with the psionic dragons)

Topaz gets to be the 6HD ... of course this leaves out making a higher lvl 8HD like the flame and auraks, but ... hey these guys are not the traditional 10 dragons we grew up with
#16

zombiegleemax

Jul 04, 2007 11:05:51
I thought amethyst dragons were the reds and golds of the gem dragons.
#17

wolf72

Jul 09, 2007 12:27:30
I thought amethyst dragons were the reds and golds of the gem dragons.

not quite, the topaz is really the top dog of gem dragons
#18

zombiegleemax

Jul 09, 2007 18:14:24
They were in the Council of Wyrms setting.
#19

ravinray

Aug 07, 2007 6:50:21
As per Treymordin's observations, amethyst were the top gem dragons in CoW; but in 3e Bruce Cordell mixed the hierarchy and made the topaz dragon strongest. (I suspect this had something to do with MAD and 3.0 psionics.)

And caeruleus, are you using the mixed of spell-like and psionic abilities in MM2? Coz I made them fully psionic; but also looked for arcane equivalents of those (like earthbolt for stomp).
#20

caeruleus

Aug 07, 2007 10:08:25
And caeruleus, are you using the mixed of spell-like and psionic abilities in MM2? Coz I made them fully psionic; but also looked for arcane equivalents of those (like earthbolt for stomp).

I'm not actually using gem dragons at all. I was just offering suggestions to the OP.
#21

zombiegleemax

Aug 08, 2007 10:27:05
Gem dragons dont really have a place in Ansalon, IMO, I liked the Astral Dragons as the Neutral dragon and from what I understand the Othlorox are back in Dragons of Krynn.
#22

ravinray

Aug 08, 2007 11:17:15
Unless you invoke the "alien dragons from another world" explanation for the dragon overlords to justify gem dragons. ;)
#23

zombiegleemax

Aug 08, 2007 16:41:20
Yes, but the alien dragons are bigger than Krynnish dragons.
#24

caeruleus

Aug 10, 2007 18:03:33
Yes, but the alien dragons are bigger than Krynnish dragons.

Unless you decide they're alien dragons from a different world than the overlords, and that they end up forming an alliance with the Neutral gods after their arrival. Certainly not canon, but a good DM can spin a plausible enough story for their own campaign.
#25

zombiegleemax

Aug 11, 2007 23:04:08
Yes, but the alien dragons are bigger than Krynnish dragons.

Incorrect. As put forth by MW & TH, the reason for the "alien" dragons being larger than Krynn's native dragons is that they absorb the essense of other dragons, which increases their size. They are not inheirently any larger than normal dragons. On their homeworld the normal-sized dragons were hunted down as food and skulls for the larger dragons. It's dragon eat dragon world there. The only way to survive was by using skull totems and draconic vampirism and making victims of the others dragons. That was why Malys and Skie fled that world.
#26

zombiegleemax

Aug 12, 2007 22:40:37
Even before Malys killed her first little black dragon, the black dragon had never seen a red as big as Malys and he thought it was the Dark Queen.
#27

darthsylver

Aug 13, 2007 18:07:49
Yes the first black dragon in Krynn. I am quite sure that Malys had killed many dragons back on her home world.
#28

zombiegleemax

Aug 14, 2007 8:02:05
But from the novel it made it sound that it was the first time that she had drawn on he little balck's life force.
#29

darthsylver

Aug 14, 2007 13:30:51
Which novel?

Whatever was wrote might also refer to the first time for fresh or new meat (namely Krynn dragons). BUt tell me the novel and I will see what I can figure.
#30

zombiegleemax

Aug 14, 2007 16:03:40
I think it was Rabe's Dawning of a New Age or the first of her series.
#31

kraven_redcloak

Sep 12, 2007 12:44:30
From what I can gather for all their power the Dragon Overlords were considered runts in their own homeworld. Skie pretty much said so himself before he died (last novel in the age of mortals, I forget the title)
#32

zombiegleemax

Sep 12, 2007 19:02:50
one of the very creative poeple on the Nexus wrote up Gemstone Dragons in a very neat way. they were crafted by reorx and gifted to the neutral gods. the write up is great i forget where the link is but its definitly worth a read.

I tinkered with the idea of Gem Draconians and Draconian Hybrids for awhile but its on the back burner for now.;)

Canon was made to be broken.:P
#33

vedicdragon

Oct 08, 2007 10:44:10
Hrmmm . . . . interesting proposal.

I'd be very interested to see the played-out impact that Gem Dragons have on a diametrically divided setting like Krynn.

One has to surmise that Gem Dragons would be a force for Order (or Chaotic) Neutrality, for the most part keeping things in line, like the role of the Rilmani in the Planescape Campaign Setting.

So Draconians being created by a diametrically opposed force to this Agenda would probably have to come from Father Chaos.

They would make EXCELLENT shock-troops to add to his forces in the Chaos War, and this explanation allows for a certain degree of logical consistency with the method and spirit of Draconian Creation and the Gem Dragons' role in your campaign.
#34

rampant

Oct 11, 2007 22:22:51
Ok looking at the basic draconians (normal, and noble)


Each has

2 varieties at 2HD (+1-2 LA)

1 4HD variety (+3 LA)

1 6HD variety (+4-5 LA)

1 8HD variety (+3-4 LA)

In addition to the Standard draconian traits.
Claw and bite attacks

So that seems to be the first step, assigning a variety of gem dragon to each HD slot

easy enough

Crystal is the lowest CR so it gets the first 2HD slot preferably with a +1 LA

Emerald and Sapphire are about even, but emerald reachs its final size earlier so lets give Sapphire the 2hd/2la slot

Emerald gets the 4hd/3la slot

Again the Crs on the last 2 are tied, but the Topaz gets bigger

so Amethyst gets the 6hd slot

and the Topaz gets the 8hd Slot

Ok the next thing to consider is style, the basic draconians had special attacks based on gender/military purpose

the abilties of the noble draconians are primarily based off the energy affinity of their ancestors

So ask: How tightly are their abilities tied to their draconic ancestors? Is gender a factor? one possibilty would be to tie their special abilities to their draconic ancestors favored discipline (note this is not necesarrily making them psionic I'm going to leave that for now) So the topaz has psychometabolism, therefore the draconian breed based off them should have some sort of ability based on modifying their own bodies, ect.

Ok next is how to deal with psionics, either A) include the normal 3.5 rules and let people go crazy, B) limit psionics to the gem dragons and their minions/associates/related beasties, C) ignore them, D) draw inspiration from psionics when developing the abilities but avoid using actual psionic rules

hope this helps