Sorcerers

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

zombiegleemax

Jul 29, 2007 1:23:59
I was just thinking, would it be better to give sorcerers access to the wu-jen spell list, those spells seem to be more along the lines of what they do.
#2

darthsylver

Jul 29, 2007 18:24:29
One of the reasons I let Wu-jen (albeit they are from the abaqua-ogre kingdom) into my campaign. I also say that these are what the cha'asi practitioneers on taladas really are.
#3

zombiegleemax

Jul 29, 2007 19:13:44
That is one person who thinks it is a good idea!
#4

zombiegleemax

Jul 30, 2007 11:08:34
WuJen would make for a good Mystic/Sorcerer hybrid. If you go from core SAGA material. Shengua would make for a better sorcerer than the WuJen. A better application might be to turn the Academy Sorcerer PrC into a full Core Class, with a few minor tweaks. I don't care at all for the DnD Sorcerer in a DL game. As a devoted nut of SAGA, I've disallowed the DnD sorcerer and made my own Sorcerer and Mystic, that better reflect the SAGA origins of those two roles.
#5

Dragonhelm

Jul 30, 2007 12:49:43
WuJen would make for a good Mystic/Sorcerer hybrid.

Why a hybrid? A wu jen's magic is elemental in nature, which would make the spell list good for DL sorcerers. I don't have a copy in front of me, so I don't remember the exact spell list.

If you go from core SAGA material. Shengua would make for a better sorcerer than the WuJen.

Possibly, if you replace the ofuda, set up new schools (i.e. Academy of Sorcery, Thorn Knights, Legion sorcerers) and explain the void spells.


A better application might be to turn the Academy Sorcerer PrC into a full Core Class, with a few minor tweaks. I don't care at all for the DnD Sorcerer in a DL game. As a devoted nut of SAGA, I've disallowed the DnD sorcerer and made my own Sorcerer and Mystic, that better reflect the SAGA origins of those two roles.

Yeah, the D&D sorcerer is by no means the DL sorcerer as presented in SAGA. There are several "fixes" out there for this, including my own Paths of Magic article. WotC sorta determined how the sorcerer would be, and so we've had to explain this change in the RPG.
#6

zombiegleemax

Jul 30, 2007 14:27:20
Why a hybrid? A wu jen's magic is elemental in nature, which would make the spell list good for DL sorcerers. I don't have a copy in front of me, so I don't remember the exact spell list.

Possibly, if you replace the ofuda, set up new schools (i.e. Academy of Sorcery, Thorn Knights, Legion sorcerers) and explain the void spells.

I don't have my Complete books in front of me but couldn't the WuJen do things like enlarge and cast other more Mystic sphere spells? I thought the Shengua was the Earth, Fire, Water, Air spellcaster. This would fit in as a niche specialist for the sorcerer.
Perhaps part of the difference is that when I see "sorcerer" on a DL board, I automatically think SAGA sorcerer role, not the bad xerox of the standard wizard that cast spontaneously. If this were the FR boards that would be completely different. Then the xerox would come to mind. I just don't like the xerox for DL. It just doesn't do it for me in DL.
#7

darthsylver

Jul 30, 2007 19:03:22
Well the shugenja is a divine caster where as the Wu-Jen is an arcane caster.

Yes the shugenja is the spontaneous caster and the wu-jen is the prepared caster. The shugenja also enjoys the element focus ability that gives him the spell focus feat for all spells within his chosen element, but this also prevents him from learning spells of the opposite element (not a requirement of a saga sorcerer, who could learn water spells as well as fire spells). Now the Wu-Jen spells are restricted to earth, fire, metal, water, and wood.

So in a sense they both have some similiarity to the saga age sorcerer.

Shugenja: Spontaneous caster, non-standard spell selection (element specific rather than school), and more spells than the standard wizard.

Wu-Jen: Arcane caster, more elemental focus rather than school focus, better at modifiying spells on the fly than the standard wizard (due to the bonus feat and the spell secret).
#8

zombiegleemax

Jul 30, 2007 23:22:36
I wonder if MWP could change their version of the sorcerer?
#9

Dragonhelm

Jul 31, 2007 0:20:02
I wonder if MWP could change their version of the sorcerer?

No, WotC has mandated that the DL sorcerer be the same as the PHB sorcerer. Otherwise, it would have turned out differently.
#10

zombiegleemax

Jul 31, 2007 8:22:34
That is too bad.
#11

darthsylver

Aug 01, 2007 20:51:16
Fine the DL sorcerer will be the same but the DL SORCEROR can be different. :D :D
#12

zombiegleemax

Aug 02, 2007 1:10:10
Bad Darth, no spiced potatos for you.
#13

zombiegleemax

Aug 02, 2007 11:23:59
What WotC says may be the official stance, but they cannot mandate that for your personal game. As I stated above, I will not allow the PHB Sorcerer in my DL games. If I run a FR or other game then yes I'll tow the party line, otherwise it's my way. Figuring out how to do a SAGA style hexblade has been a little problematic, given there is no luck school or shpere.
#14

zombiegleemax

Aug 02, 2007 14:38:20
Kor, you still run a SAGA based game?
#15

zombiegleemax

Aug 02, 2007 15:40:46
Kor, you still run a SAGA based game?

Only for ambient spellcasting. Otherwise 3rd Ed is basically SAGA except that it uses dice and has class skills and class features instead of Advantages/Disadvantages and Trump actions. SAGA introduced the whole Difficulty Rating or Challenge. 3rd changed it from cards to dice.

When SAGA first came out I convinced my group, at the time, to give it 4 sessions and if they didn't like it we would go back to 2nd Ed. During the second session half the group revolted, citing, "It's not D&D without dice!!" and left. That was the end of my SAGA playing days. I've been dying to give it a go again, because the half that did stay had a blast with it and so did I. My current group seems to indicate they night be open to it so maybe we can convert characters and try it out for a session or two.
#16

zombiegleemax

Aug 02, 2007 17:35:25
I played SAGA once or twice with the Marvel Superheroes game. Not too bad, I really liked it.
#17

zombiegleemax

Aug 03, 2007 21:38:36
I played SAGA once or twice with the Marvel Superheroes game. Not too bad, I really liked it.

It's a great system. I liked that there are no fixed classes. What you could do truly only depended upon the limit of your imagination. I didn't like fixed damage.
#18

zombiegleemax

Aug 04, 2007 1:46:41
I would like to play a DL SAGA game.
#19

darthsylver

Aug 04, 2007 8:21:11
It kind of reminded me of the old d6 system that West End Games had for the starwars system. There were no fixed classes or levels. As you gained experience you used those experience point to buy the skills or improve the abilities she wanted. The earthdawn system had a little of the same but it still used circles (levels) and classes.
#20

nightside_samurai

Aug 04, 2007 9:39:18
What's SAGA? I haven't been playing long enough to know what it is
#21

zombiegleemax

Aug 04, 2007 12:05:43
SAGA is a system that came out for Dragonlance and Marvel that focused more on roleplay than game mechanics. It doesn't classes, levels, and skills. It came out shortly after the MW/H Dragons of Summer Flame novel. The magic system has the most mechanics, and even that is very simple. You drew cards from a deck to determine ability scores and codes, number of cards in your hand, personality, and wealth. There are no fixed spells as in other editions of DnD. You craft them as you go from a spellpoint pool. Ability Codes (not scores) determine what weapons, armors, spell schools/shperes, shields you are able to use. It is a very user friendly system. It's only failing, in many minds, is that it doesn't use dice. 3rd Ed borrows heavily from the system.
#22

zombiegleemax

Aug 04, 2007 13:03:25
Back on topic...trying to use the SAGA system for the WuJen and Shengua, you'd almost have to make them inheirent hybrid casters, due to their ability to draw their spells from both the mystical and sorcererous realm.
SRD-wise, I'd just keep them with their current spell-lists and update them as newer spells that fit them become available.
#23

zombiegleemax

Aug 06, 2007 12:28:30
I really dont think that Shujenga are the same things as mystics. I would leave the mystic class as is in the current game.